Author Topic: so what has changed? (Read 1700 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2003, 09:32:53 AM »

thanks charon... I don't know anything about AW. I flew it is dos days. There were a couple of people who wouldn't engage unless they had a percieved advantage but mostly.... everyone was agressive.

WB went wussie during allied vs axis... you knew exactly what your enemy could and would do... worse... if he was LW he could only do a couple of things... everyone started avoiding each other and making excusses for it.

Here we suddenly have big maps with 2 sectors between fields and a huge influx of players and now... people are avoiding each other and making excusses for their timid behavior (i could be really good in a furball if I chose but it is too easy and beneath me)

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Gremlin · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2003, 10:21:28 AM »

Whereas I concurr with a lot of what Laz and Charon are saying, I do also strongly beleive in not entering a fight you cant win. What I do not like to see is guys attacking with an advantage blowing it and running. My ethos is if I start a fight with you, either you or i *will die. If im seriously outnumered say more than (3 or 4/1) I simply go elsewhere, thats not to say i will run, I just dont pick fights I cant win. Particularly on big maps, there really is no point in flying two sectors just to get ganged. Move on to somehwhere where you can give someguys a real fight and not give the lemmings a target for 6 of em to chase!

Toad · « **Reply #17 on:** June 27, 2003, 10:38:09 AM »

What happened?

The game went away from being about air combat. Pretty simple if you stop and think about it.

Quote

High fidelity air combat is the heart of
Aces High,

Well, yeah, it WAS. Back in the beginning. But not any more.

Those who have been around since Beta probably realize this as each new revision after the drag flight model change (was that 1.04?) had less to do with ACM and more to do with "strat" and the attendant changes to bombing, gv's, "spawn points" (I still find it amusing that people will argue for "instant transporter room teleportation" of gv's in one breath and then argue for more "realism" in the next and then argue against "instant altitude" for buffs immediately after that.)

The game has evolved away from a focus on air combat. Simple as that.

And that is neither good nor bad in itself. It's just a fact.

Whether that change appeals to you personally or not is a different subject.

Rude · « **Reply #18 on:** June 27, 2003, 04:10:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tumor
Ok this is getting old. I'm gonna do something I never thought possible, it's almost embarrasing!

RUDE!!... WHERE'S YOUR WHINE OF THE WEEK THREAD???

The repetitive nature of this subject and it's author truly deserve recognition.

No one wanted to hear it anymore....only trying to make everyone happy:)

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2003, 06:27:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gremlin
Whereas I concurr with a lot of what Laz and Charon are saying, I do also strongly beleive in not entering a fight you cant win.

There's nothing wrong about not entering a fight that you don't have any chance at survival. The problem are the ones that don't even make any attempt to fight period.

Ack-Ack

nopoop · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2003, 08:19:28 PM »

Two things:

AH needs trainers and a training arena ala' WB. For a noobie the short way to learn is with a trainer. If your LEARNING in the the TA your applying what your learning in the arena. Makes you more aggressive when you have a concept, which the trainer provides.

Now tell me that if you spent an hour 1 on 1 with =drex= in the old days at WB once a week with him teaching you the arts, you'd be flying at 25k cherry picking ??

I don't think so. If you did you should be b*tch slapped. You would apply what your learning by fighting over and over, then discuss, make adjustments and go out the next week and practice your craft. You would be fighting and improving with a teacher. Invaluable resourse.

Secondly the thought of entering a fight that you "can't" win is quite different when your "working it". You can't get better at multiple cons unless you fight multiple cons. You can't learn to fight with your hair on fire unless you set it ablaze. Living is a luxury when your learning your chops. Living for living sake is boring. Taking names AND living makes the juices flow.

That brings me back to trainers that KNOW the chops. Invaluable resourse missing here.

senna · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2003, 08:32:16 PM »

If someone spent an hour with Drex, that would be his fault. Drex 10, noob zip. I never spent any time with a trainer in WB or here in AH but I spent alot of time playing. Even though I crashed alot and got shot down alot at the begining, I never quit out of frustration and kept on playing. Even at 1.99 an hour, WB 2.x rates!

BTW: My first kill in WB was a killshooter so I kilt myself.

senna · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2003, 08:38:27 PM »

Advice too the noobs, if you fight with Drex or Leviathon and you see the top of their canopies, it means your gona die soon.

Fly away from the top of their canopies. Im just joking.

Gremlin · « **Reply #23 on:** June 28, 2003, 09:53:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by nopoop
Secondly the thought of entering a fight that you "can't" win is quite different when your "working it". You can't get better at multiple cons unless you fight multiple cons. You can't learn to fight with your hair on fire unless you set it ablaze. Living is a luxury when your learning your chops. Living for living sake is boring.

Spot on poop. Nobody gets better unless you constantly challenge yourself. However dont you so often see folk who go headlong into a load of la7s and then cry cause they got their rear ends handed to em? Whos fault is that the gangers? I think not. Theres a huge gulf between smart flying and boring flying. Theres nothing to be learned when ya got no wings:) When a guy can win in a 1v1 the next step is 2v1 an so on up.

lazs2 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 28, 2003, 10:08:28 AM »

I don't know why the terminaly timid guys think that furballers don't try to survive... they try harder than the sky accountants. They just have set a much more difficult task for themselves.

I don't say dive into any fight you see.. I want large fitghts with fairly even numbers.. the kind where when you finally catch your breath... the skys are clear.. or you are scissoring your way toward home and the ack or that group of friendlies with a shot up plane and 3 spits and a la on your tail.

compare that to the excietment of spotting a low plane every hour or two that appears to be assleep and sneaking slowly up on it..."does he see me.? Oh my gawd! he evaded! run run run for your life!"
lazs

TheManx · « **Reply #25 on:** June 28, 2003, 10:25:27 AM »

Only time I really find Lazs really in furballs, is when the numbers are 3-1 in his favour. It's easy talking tough when numbers are always on your side. I do recall him not wanting to stay Rooks for more than a short time because his style of fighting was too hard to do over here.

lazs2 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 28, 2003, 10:28:18 AM »

odd.... Ive never even seen you manx much less spoke to you... Do you play AH?
lazs

Bluedog · « **Reply #27 on:** June 28, 2003, 04:25:28 PM »

Maybe it's because I rarely fly during 'US Prime Time', but I have to say, I just don't see the timidity you guys are talking about.
In fact, EVERY time I up a plane, of any sort, somebody tries to shoot me down.( check my stats...you'll see they quite often succeed in doing exactly that too

)
Sure, p51s still run away as soon as they lose any initial advantage they had, but that's to be expected, they'd be stupid not to.
Anyway, just my point of view, but from what I'm seeing, the red guys are as keen to fight today as they were two plus years ago.

Blue

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #28 on:** June 28, 2003, 05:45:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bluedog
Maybe it's because I rarely fly during 'US Prime Time', but I have to say, I just don't see the timidity you guys are talking about.
In fact, EVERY time I up a plane, of any sort, somebody tries to shoot me down.( check my stats...you'll see they quite often succeed in doing exactly that too )
Sure, p51s still run away as soon as they lose any initial advantage they had, but that's to be expected, they'd be stupid not to.
Anyway, just my point of view, but from what I'm seeing, the red guys are as keen to fight today as they were two plus years ago.

Blue

I rarely fly 'US prime time' myself and usually fly after 11pm (PST) and the timid pilots are definitely out in force at that time. Last night while flying solo at A199 and A195 on Trinity, every single Rookie I encountered either coalt or that had an altitude advantage over me, dove and ran to the deck to either their acks or the nearest friendly horde. One guy that upped A195 I think ran out of fuel running from me (even though he had a slight altitude advantage) and crashed. Later on I ran into the same guy and he again ran when we were both coalt at 14,000ft. When I closed on him, he dove to the deck. Luckily for me, he wasn't all that smart because after he leveled off on the deck doing over 400mph, he extended for about a minute and then pulled up hard into a climb and literally stalled out his plane right in front of my guns.

I don't mind the easy kills such as the one above that do stupid things that make them stall out in front of my guns, it's just the limp-wristed timid tactics that I deplore.

ack-ack

TheManx · « **Reply #29 on:** June 29, 2003, 03:39:44 AM »

Sure do Lazs. But you're correct, we seldom talk online. Have fought you before however and have noticed the trend I stated. I think I recall you being so bored on Trinity one day that I kept my 38 on the deck for a few fights against you. Was fun, I must admit...you're quite good in an F4F. But as for the accountant's of the sky, guys like you would be accountants of the deck for what's that's worth. Not much in my book, because needing advantage in every situation is still needing advantage whether it be faster plane, more alt, or more numbers.