Author Topic: landing lights (Read 837 times)

Arlo · « **Reply #15 on:** June 28, 2003, 02:54:09 PM »

Hehe ... ccvi's jokin', folks! The "christmas tree" is most definately a post WWII invention. Hehe .... but it was funny.

ramzey · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2003, 03:03:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
Simply? Yes. Realistic? No. What I'm saying is that blackout conditions SHOULD apply. Making it a client option is gamey.

for AH2 or AH2 ToD?

its still game, in RL u not have gps, and here yes
thats not mean gps is bad for gameplay

Arlo · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2003, 03:13:12 PM »

I'd say both ...... even though this is the TOD forum. I'm sure there's several "non-TOD" players who would see it as gamey. Not unlike those who see "stall limiter" online as gamey.

But I doubt night time will see the light of day (ptp) in the main all that much anyhow ... even in AHII. But if HT and co. was to make night ops a viable thing for AHII ... I hope to see them doing it in a way that attempts to make it immersive and apply as few "gamey" solutions as possible.

Blackout conditions apply for everyone when the enemy is near (near being just outside visible range of the lights).
Searchlights for ack.
Some night fighters with spotlights on them as well.
Exhaust flame/glow

If you're worried that night ops would make a game unplayable without a gamey solution, I don't think there's much to worry about. Like I said, I doubt they'd become a major part of main arena play, anyhow. But if they did, I think it would be a result of a better system being tried in TOD and succeeding. And I bet that system would have as few client side options as possible.

ccvi · « **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2003, 05:06:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
Hehe ... ccvi's jokin', folks! The "christmas tree" is most definately a post WWII invention. Hehe .... but it was funny.

No.

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Government_Role/landing_nav/POL14.htm

"Airports had begun using lights in the late 1920s, when landing fields were marked with rotating lights so they could be found after dark. In the early 1930s, airports installed the earliest forms of approach lighting. These indicated the correct angle of descent and whether the pilot was right on target. Their approach path was called the glidepath or glideslope. Gradually, the colors of the lights and their rates of flash became standard worldwide based on International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standards. The Air Mail Service's intermediate, or emergency, landing fields that it established along the air route used rotating electric beacons and lights that were set around the perimeter of the field."

Arlo · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2003, 05:41:37 PM »

Too bad.

"Forty-five years ago, the Navy began to replace the landing signal officer’s (LSO) paddles with optical landing systems to assist carrier pilots. The first of these was the Mirror Optical Landing system (MOLS), designed by the Douglas Aircraft Company, which was installed on USS Wasp (CV-18) and USS Midway (CV-41) in 1952."

http://www.lakehurst.navy.mil/iflols.html

If we were talking about civil aviation you may have had a point.

ccvi · « **Reply #20 on:** June 28, 2003, 05:49:49 PM »

There's quite a difference between a large mirror and other stuff mounted on the deck of a CV to 4 simple red/white lamps. Can you please post a reference that the military wasn't able to afford a technology in 1940 that was used by civil aviation in 1920?

BenDover · « **Reply #21 on:** June 28, 2003, 06:04:32 PM »

Hmm, I'm sure I've heard that the British invented the mirror system for assisting carrier landings IN ww2.

ramzey · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2003, 06:16:03 PM »

Arlo
HTC must chose between reality and gameplay
so far it is draft, and allways will be.

If HTC make soething more "hardcore", not easy to learn in first 2 weeks, peopels even dont wont to try it. If somone go away after first day beucose it will be to hard for him , possibly never will come back.

Thats why we have stall limiter and other improvements.

For me best funn will be in AH2TOD if we start from parking place and drive whole way to runnway. Wait for tower call, take off , form up............. just like in real.
But i think not many will like to play like that
Mostly just grab plane and go in to furball or voulch

ramzey

Arlo · « **Reply #23 on:** June 28, 2003, 06:17:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ccvi
There's quite a difference between a large mirror and other stuff mounted on the deck of a CV to 4 simple red/white lamps. Can you please post a reference that the military wasn't able to afford a technology in 1940 that was used by civil aviation in 1920?

Perhaps what I posted saying that they used LSOs until 1952 will do? Could have? Well they could have based autogyros on CVs ... but they didn't.

Arlo · « **Reply #24 on:** June 28, 2003, 06:24:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ramzey
Arlo
HTC must chose between reality and gameplay
so far it is draft, and allways will be.

If HTC make soething more "hardcore", not easy to learn in first 2 weeks, peopels even dont wont to try it. If somone go away after first day beucose it will be to hard for him , possibly never will come back.

Thats why we have stall limiter and other improvements.

For me best funn will be in AH2TOD if we start from parking place and drive whole way to runnway. Wait for tower call, take off , form up............. just like in real.
But i think not many will like to play like that
Mostly just grab plane and go in to furball or voulch

ramzey

And because of such reasoning you believe the best answer to lighting fields for night landings versus blackout conditions when a base is under the threat of attack is to make it a client side option for friendly players? I don't happen to concur. Not for TOD or MA. It's soooooo much easier to not even have night as an option for MA play since players there are just into it for the dogfighting and/or landgrabbing and, for the most part, could care less about the added immersion of night missions, be it bombing, intercept or night sweeps. The players who just wanna grab a plane and go furball or vulch will certainly still have those options available to them.

The proposed enviroment for TOD is already a failure by your standards (if it comes down to what the majority of online gamers prefer). I don't know if it will succeed or not, myself. I do find it appealing ... and I hope it does.

Arlo · « **Reply #25 on:** June 28, 2003, 06:29:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BenDover
Hmm, I'm sure I've heard that the British invented the mirror system for assisting carrier landings IN ww2.

Sounds interesting .... but that would neccesitate those (or that) particular carrier(s) being modeled (if it's true) since nobody else utilized such technology until post-war times.

Of course .... the MA could have nothing but British carriers that utilized that system ... during WWII.

BenDover · « **Reply #26 on:** June 28, 2003, 06:34:10 PM »

I'd like a british cv, they had steam powered catapults, which would be handy for getting those large heavy aircraft airborne.

Arlo · « **Reply #27 on:** June 28, 2003, 06:39:40 PM »

Late war U.S. CVs had `em too. But not all of `em. I don't think all the British ones had `em either.

How about catapult launched scouts from BBs? I'm pretty sure it was common enough to warrant modeling. And as often as I see players filling in as airborne forward observers (could that be one of the duties of BB scout pilots?), it may even be justifiable.

But then again .. the BB guns could use a better, more realistic ranging system as well

Replicant · « **Reply #28 on:** June 28, 2003, 06:41:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BenDover
I'd like a british cv, they had steam powered catapults, which would be handy for getting those large heavy aircraft airborne.

And armoured flight decks!

ccvi · « **Reply #29 on:** June 28, 2003, 06:50:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
Perhaps what I posted saying that they used LSOs until 1952 will do? Could have? Well they could have based autogyros on CVs ... but they didn't.

What do LSOs on a carrier have to do with PAPI at land bases?