Author Topic: What's next Yanks?  (Read 2437 times)

Offline StSanta

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What's next Yanks?
« on: June 27, 2003, 05:12:19 AM »
With Iraq I mean? Deaths from ambushes etc. will mount. It is clear that Saddam loyalists still control large parts of the population - everyone is afraid of reprisals and whatnot. Not a word has been said about it, but probably because it is hard to tell a murder as a reprisal from someone killed during a breakin/looting thingy.

I've seen no steps towards making Iraq a democratic nation yet. Granted, there are enormous difficulties and I recognize the huge problems. Yet there seems to not even be a serious dialogue. The temporary Iraqi government thingie was stopped when there was concerns that it'd be another Afghanistan or turn out to be a theocracy.

I just find the lack of any progress disconcerting. The ordinary Iraqi might well support the US going after Saddam, but they're proud people too. Resentment will just grow and grow the longer they're occupied - leading to more and more ambushes.

Me, I think the US must move quickly before the average Iraqi turns against them. As mentioned; huge problems. But as it is, if I don't hear about any progress towards an iraq led by Iraqis, you can bet the average Iraqi ain't either.

This isn't a post critical of the US. More liked comments from a worried friend. You chaps can find yerself in an awful mess if your administration fails to understand the importance of the Iraqi culture and desires for self-rule. I understand that you need a US friendly administration there as you wish to move yer forces from Saudi Arabia (which hardly is a friend of the US anyway), but it seems to me the best way of going about this is ensuring that resentment from the average Iraqi is held at a minimum. Occupation with no noticeable progress towards free elections etc won't help.

Anyone in the know - update me on just what the US policy is with regards to the future of Iraq?

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2003, 05:28:35 AM »
The war in Iraq isn't over - it's just changed from conventional to coin (counter insurgency) and you can't win a coin war without the support of the local people.

I do not think the USA and the UK will ever obtain the support of the local Iraq population - the urban guerilla fighters opposing the Allied forces in Iraq - to paraphrase Mao - will be able to swim
amongst the urban population as fish swim in the sea.

My personal experience of coin operations was a low intensity affair - with contacts once a month - the daily wounding and killing the US army faces will be extremely difficult to counter - harsh measures will simply force more of Iraq's well armed population to look upon them as conquerors and foreign oppressors.

It's a horrible bloody mess with no clear way out and I think it will have a profound effect on both America's view of itself and how it is viewed by the rest of the world - the next election is going to be interesting.

Soldiers are being left to deal with a mess that the politicians created and I am appalled that Colin Powell - of whom I have the highest regard allowed this to happen.

One final point - does ANYONE actually feel safer from terrorist attack now? I know I don't.

Offline Naso

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2003, 05:48:41 AM »
Dont worry gents, some thousand Carabinieri (militar police) are on the way for south Iraq, we will reestabilish order, not using kicks and shooting like you, but....

With Pizza, music and Spaghetti!!! :)

And our amaizing friendly behaviour. :D

Offline Raubvogel

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2003, 06:11:31 AM »
Nuke 'em

Offline Maniac

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2003, 06:37:13 AM »
And make an big parking lot....
Warbirds handle : nr-1 //// -nr-1- //// Maniac

Offline Dowding

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2003, 06:40:18 AM »
The big glass parking lot cliche! I thought I'd never see that one again. Like a dog turd in a milk bottle, it's always a pleasant surprise.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2003, 06:46:42 AM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2003, 06:45:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raubvogel
Nuke 'em


I see the Cliff Claven view of RealPolitik is alive and well - someone probably will get nuked in the next 10 years - my bet it isn't Iraq.

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2003, 06:57:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Naso
Dont worry gents, some thousand Carabinieri (militar police) are on the way for south Iraq, we will reestabilish order, not using kicks and shooting like you, but....

With Pizza, music and Spaghetti!!! :)

And our amaizing friendly behaviour. :D


sigh - would personally kill someone for a decent Arrabiata right now

Offline Fishu

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2003, 06:59:52 AM »
The coalition forces shouldn't leave the country until there is an army and stable goverment.
Without an army and the goverment, Iraq could become like afganistan after russians left.

So.. US wanted this, they'd better also finish the job well.

Freedom is something to sacrifice your life for..  wasnt that right?
Therefore I hope yanks wont begin complaining about the weekly losses in Iraq after couple months, after first wanting to go liberate them so badly....

Offline ra

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2003, 07:16:19 AM »
"Freedom is something to sacrifice your life for.. wasnt that right?
Therefore I hope yanks wont begin complaining about the weekly losses in Iraq after couple months, after first wanting to go liberate them so badly...."

Strangely it's not the Americans who are 'complaining' about the daily attacks.

Offline Martlet

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2003, 07:19:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
"Freedom is something to sacrifice your life for.. wasnt that right?
Therefore I hope yanks wont begin complaining about the weekly losses in Iraq after couple months, after first wanting to go liberate them so badly...."

Strangely it's not the Americans who are 'complaining' about the daily attacks.


exactly what I was thinking.

Offline Krusher

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Re: What's next Yanks?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2003, 08:21:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta

I just find the lack of any progress disconcerting. The ordinary Iraqi might well support the US going after Saddam, but they're proud people too. Resentment will just grow and grow the longer they're occupied - leading to more and more ambushes.

Me, I think the US must move quickly before the average Iraqi turns against them. As mentioned; huge problems. But as it is, if I don't hear about any progress towards an iraq led by Iraqis, you can bet the average Iraqi ain't either.

 


Its been less than 2 months since the end of the major conflict. We spent what, 7 years in Germany and Japan after WWII. We can either give it time and fix it right, or do what a large portion of the world wants us to do, cut and run (so they can say they told us so nan na na).

I dont have any idea what I would do if I was in charge of the situation, I admire the people on the ground who are working their tulips off to help the people of Iraq get their act together. The more we are attacked the deeper we should dig our heals in. If we leave before they are stable Iraq is doomed to a terrible future.

Offline Fishu

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2003, 11:06:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
Strangely it's not the Americans who are 'complaining' about the daily attacks.


Strangely things tend to change in a democratic country when the casualty rates goes up.

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2003, 11:14:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
"Freedom is something to sacrifice your life for.. wasnt that right?
Therefore I hope yanks wont begin complaining about the weekly losses in Iraq after couple months, after first wanting to go liberate them so badly...."

Strangely it's not the Americans who are 'complaining' about the daily attacks.


Early days yet - give it another 6 months or a year ot two.

Offline Arfann

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What's next Yanks?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2003, 11:15:59 AM »
If they don't appreciate all the wonderful things we're doing for them then let 'em go back where they came from!!