best fighter/bomber ww2

[rod367th]

Originally posted by chance-airwolf
rod367th & other bent-wing lovers,

If you haven't read it already, pick up a copy of Boone T. Guyton's book titled 'Whistling Death' (ISBN 0-517-57526-4).  Mr. Boone was a test pilot for Chance Vought during and after WWII.  He flew over 105 types of aircraft during his 45 years as a pilot and tells of both the good and bad during the Corsair's development, flight testing, and deployment.

Guyton credits the Corsair with destroying 2,140 enemy planes while suffering only 189 losses (an 11 to 1 success rate).

The Corsair is a Marine's plane and not just anybody can handle it (... and one of these days I'll figure out how to fly it like I know how)!

Chance2

LOL never said i like bent wings , posted this after reading Rand report. Thought it was very interesting to see guys look at pass and come up mwith multinational fighter bomber for future.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by TW9
Greatest WW2 pilot never made it out of hawaii..  

http://www.tedwilliams.com/index.php?page=milww2&level=2

Sure he did! George Welch went to New Guinea where he threatened to exceed Bong and McGuire until nearly killed by severe malaria. Instead, he went to North American Aviation (on Hap Arnold's recommendation) as a test pilot where on October 1, 1947, he upstaged Chuck Yeager by diving the XP-86 through Mach 1 two weeks before Yeager did it "officially". Welch was credited with 4 kills and two probables at Pearl Harbor (flying a P-40B) for which he received the DFC (Arnold wanted to award him the CMoH, but Welch's squadron commander disapproved the recommendation due to Welch taking off without specific orders. That Captain was banished to a desk and eventually drummed out of the Air Corps for having greatly annoyed Gen. Arnold, who had zero patience for "damned idiots").

Naturally, all due respect for the "Splendid Splinter", a truly great ball player, fighter pilot and American hero!  

My regards,

Widewing

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by MajorDay
Hmmmmm......Are you sure?  

Yep.  Heard the story from a teacher I had back in high school.  He was the wingman of the pilot that got the kill and during WW2 was a member of the Blacksheep squadron.


ack-ack

[Imp]

Originally posted by Widewing
The P-51D was a 1944/45 fighter. It, along with its Dallas built twin, the P-51K, were the latest and last models to see combat in the ETO. Unless you prefer the lightwight P-51H, which could do no better than the D model as a fighter-bomber. FYI, the P-51D served in Korea, the somewhat less durable P-51H did not.

My regards,

Widewing

Im aware of that Widewing.

I was just saying that comparing it to a P51D is silly since the airframe was designed in 1940-1941.

If he wants to compare it then he should compare it to a similar plane. Like the P47N or Do335. Very late war planes.

[rod367th]

IMP

authors probally have passed on 2 of them were ww2 pilots working RAND think tank, This as I said before not my take its from RAND corp. As they were looking to design multinational fighter /bomber for future. ITS there opion, which is based on facts from testing and pilots ww2. not by guys who havn't flown.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Imp
Im aware of that Widewing.

I was just saying that comparing it to a P51D is silly since the airframe was designed in 1940-1941.

If he wants to compare it then he should compare it to a similar plane. Like the P47N or Do335. Very late war planes.

I'm sorry, but you have made an incorrect assumption. Vought designed the F4U airframe in 1939! Structurally, there is little difference between the F4U-1 and the F4U-4. In fact, one could argue that the P-51D was substantially more different from the NA-73X (or even XP-51) than the F4U-4 was from the XF4U-1 of 1940. Moreover, the XF4U-1 flew 6 months BEFORE the NA-73X.

But wait, let's look even closer. North American's Mustang had to be re-engined to attain the level of performance seen in the P-51D/K. Vought's design was such that the F4U-4 did not require a complete engine swap, but merely used an improved version of the same engine that powered the prototype. Vought's design was still in frontline service in the French Navy long after the P-51D had been sold off to third world air forces or relegated to hobbyists and air racers.

What about the P-47N? Well, its basic airframe was designed in 1940, and test flown one year to the day AFTER the XF4U-1. In the case of the N model, it was designed as an ultra-long range escort fighter. As a fighter bomber it was no better than the D model. In fact, it accelerated slower, climbed slower and offered no improvement in overall agility. It was, however, faster if you had the extra time to wait for it to slowly wind-up to speed. Remember, the P-47N had a basic weight of over 11,000 lbs as compared to the F4U-4's basic weight of 9,300 lbs. Max takeoff was about 21,000 lbs for the P-47N and "normal" max of 14,000 lbs for the F4U-4, which could be "overloaded" to 16,830 lbs. In other words, the F4U-4 could fly circles around the P-47N, haul nearly 50% more ordnance and was at least as resistant to battle damage. In the Jug's favor was a speed advantage at very high altitude and considerably greater range. However, range is seldom a major consideration for close support and attack missions.  

You have forgotten the classification. We are discussing fighter-bombers.

As to the Do 335, it was designed as a bomber interceptor, not a fighter-bomber. Moreover, although it was fast, it was no match for the far more agile single engine fighters swarming over Germany. Should I mention that only 13 Do 335A-1 and A-12 (two seater night fighter version) were completed before the war ended?

My regards,

Widewing

[hogenbor]

Of course, so easy to fight with numbers after all these years.

No doubt the Corsair (and the P-47, P-51 etc) was a great asset as a fighter-bomber in all its versions.

But in my mind, the words of Eric Brown stick, for example when comparing the Corsair and the Fw-190 :

'Having flown both aircraft a lot a have no doubt which one I would rather fly. The Fw-190 could not be bested by the Corsair'

Sure, this is air to air but the man has flown everything and has combat experience as well. He also rates the F6F much higher than the Corsair.

And for most of us AH is the closest thing we're ever going to get in flying the fighters of WWII and I STILL hate F4U's and I DO have a fair amount of kills in it. Never flown the ueber F4U-4 though, perk planes are for sissies.

[Zanth]

Just to clarify - the Kills by P-51 I cited was only the air to air number.  The full count for aircraft the P-51 dealt with in Europe was more like this:  4950 Air Kills, 4131 Ground Kills, 230 V-1 Kills.

The author of the article/book/report/whatever stated in his conclusion:

"In conclusion, it would be hard, no, impossible to dismiss the F4U-4 as the leading candidate for the "best fighter/bomber of WWII". Furthermore, there is strong evidence that it very well may be the best piston engine fighter (to see combat) period."

It is this statement I was taking slight issue with, and his previous detailed line by line comparision with the P-51.  I am aware P-51 isn't strictly a fighter/bomebr - though certainly can do its far share of heavy work- the author drew the original comparision.

[humble]

I happened to read an article in one of the major historical flight magazines arguing the "best" fighter of WW2. In the end the choose the P-47 as the #1 fighter of the war. While I don't remember (or agree) with all the reasoning 1 fact did stand out...

All 10 of the top P47 aces survived the war.

If you look at "late war"(1945?) planes I think the -4 falls behind the bearcat, tempest and seafury...and obvously the various jets...262, meteor and P-80. The Tigershark and Abledog were also available in the fighter/bomber role.

[humble]

Originally posted by TW9
Greatest WW2 pilot never made it out of hawaii..  

http://www.tedwilliams.com/index.php?page=milww2&level=2

Ted Williams flew in korea as John Glenns wingman...John Glenn stated he was the best wingman and most gifted pilot he ever flew with.

[midnight Target]

There is no doubt in my mind... the F4U is the coolest looking f/b of the war.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by hogenbor
Of course, so easy to fight with numbers after all these years.

No doubt the Corsair (and the P-47, P-51 etc) was a great asset as a fighter-bomber in all its versions.

But in my mind, the words of Eric Brown stick, for example when comparing the Corsair and the Fw-190 :

'Having flown both aircraft a lot a have no doubt which one I would rather fly. The Fw-190 could not be bested by the Corsair'

Sure, this is air to air but the man has flown everything and has combat experience as well. He also rates the F6F much higher than the Corsair.

Brown was referring to the Corsair Mk.II, known to the U.S. as the F4U-1A. So, the reference is not valid, especially in light of the fact that the F4U-4 was markedly superior to the Fw 190A-whatever throughout the entire flight envelope.

Personally, I am not one of "Gospel according to Brown" advocates. A great many people of equal and greater experience disagree with more than a few of his "opinions". Want an example of how multiple experts can come to polar opposite conclusions on aircraft performance? Read Diz Dean's Report of the Joint Fighter Conference.

To read some about the F4U-4 and its impact on the Korean War, go to:

Corsairs to the rescue

My regards,

Widewing

[mia389]

P38 is far the best F/B Although P47 comes close to it P38 little better fighter and P47 could carry little more load. I would much rather pick that pretty plane.P38