Author Topic: Targetware.... (Read 2627 times)

funkedup · « **Reply #15 on:** July 01, 2003, 11:24:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I think they are needlessly out of focus by spreading the total developer pool resources across three games instead of focusing on one project and getting it done.

You aren't alone in this opinion.

Arlo · « **Reply #16 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:13:36 PM »

Ummm ... guys .....

"Targetware" is a different concept from a conventional online game being developed buy a hired group of developers.

"Targetware" is a game engine that was developed by a group that decided the great experiment involves letting the players develop whatever they want to using it. The "limited pool" of talent (be it modelers, artists, etc.) isn't nearly as limited as it would be by most companies who have a paid staff and are interested in achieving the most profit with the least expense.

As has already been mentioned, the players working on the various incarnations of Target:Fill in the Blank are all interested in whatever projects they are working on and are probably less interested (if interested at all) in working on others. This being the case, they will probably show more enthusiasm and focus on their particular passion (rather than "obligation" to work on someone else's project and finish it in hopes that the other members of the groups involved in other projects will set aside their fun time to devote their focus on helping them with theirs). And, being a work of love versus a work of deadline, you'd be surprised how often such wins the race between the two. I imagine if I sat back and clucked at others who were actually working on something while I did nothing to either help or compete against it, that my expressions of contempt could be easily taken as foolish flatulence (no matter how "well meaning" my criticisms were).

So ... if indeed you are concerned about the progress of one particular version of Targetware (as has been mentioned, these are seperate groups of people, not one company organizing a release of several of their versions of the game on their servers) ... and you have the tools and talent (or even the desire to learn) ... then why not volunteer your services to the cause instead of being a "sky is falling" doom/nay sayer?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #17 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:30:41 PM »

Arlo by constantly adding new variations you will naturally reduce the number of people available to work on on any one particual project. As an example if you took it to an absurd length we would end up with each person making their own personal sim all by himself - as he prefers that combat concept or era over otrhers. Naturally you dont have to take it that far to see that having these four concurrent projects will dilute the talent pool of skilled flight sim ndividuls willing to voluntee their time.

I thik the pool of those willing to work on such a project is allready small enough. Lets see who they most likely are...

Pretty much must be flight sim enthusiast - small enough group right there and even smaller if we assume he is an online combat sim player.

Then he must have an interest in actually building a flight sim.

After that:

Must have computer programming and/or 2D/3D drawing skills.

Must have sufficient free time and be willing to devote to the project- remember they arent getting paid to do this.

These factors invariably reduce pool of available skilled willing individuals. Now go split this pool at least four ways and I dont think its unlikely that each project will suffer and bog down in frustartion. And whats the solution, well satrt another one of course with wonderous dreams of air combat in some unique new area...

I am worried, I am complaining and have good reason to be.

Drunky · « **Reply #18 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:31:03 PM »

I'm ignorant. Please help me correct it

Is Targetware going to be a stand alone game or is it mods for another game?

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #19 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:42:05 PM »

Hmmmm.... I say, hmmmmmmmmmmm...

Arlo by constantly adding new variations you will naturally reduce the number of people available to work on on any one particual project. As an example if you took it to an absurd length we would end up with each person making their own personal sim all by himself - as he prefers that combat concept or era over otrhers. Naturally you dont have to take it that far to see that having these four concurrent projects will dilute the talent pool of skilled flight sim ndividuls willing to voluntee their time.

Actually, people signed up to do WWI, WWII, or the Korean 3D objects/models/etc.

They wouldn't be doing anything except playing some other game if their interest weren't there for their era.

There is no "dillution" in the talent pool, either someone wants to do a certain thing for the game/era... or they do nothing. One person interested in WWI planes won't be doing WWII planes, as they have no interest in it.

I think you are somewhere between left field and the parking lot here Grun.
-SW

Wanker · « **Reply #20 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:43:54 PM »

Quote

I am worried, I am complaining and have good reason to be.

My dear Grunherz, since you once chimed in and told me I didn't know what the hell I was talking about awhile ago, let me return the favor.

Since you don't have the programming skills to put up or shut up, then you'll just have to settle for shutting up.

You have no basis for complaining. These people are vounteers, and most likely will not be monetarily renumerated for their efforts. Your obvious need to control people and events is frustrated in this case, and it's eating at you.

Why don't you go yell at your employees at Taco Bell or wherever it is you learned your so-called management skills.

Oh yes, the obligatory smiley....

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #21 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:49:22 PM »

They are spreading their efforts too thin...

But I do love the personal insults....

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #22 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:55:31 PM »

SW

I'm not so sure that most people would only absolutely want to work on only one era. However having many eras will naturally lead to people picking their favorite. Again my concern is that they are spreading total available resources of willing and skilled people too thin by having so many projects..

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #23 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:08:19 PM »

Fact of the matter is, people who do have the know-how will only dedicate their limited free time to something they enjoy.

If I enjoyed WWI planes (which I do), and there was a game that needed an F16 and I had the know-how to build one in a CAD... I wouldn't waste my time on it.

Now, if a WWI game came along- I'd spend as much of my free time as possible to create as many WWI planes as I could, starting off with my favorites and working my way down to my least favorites.

Thats just the way it is, people who do have the know-how will use it on projects they want to see completed... they won't waste it on a project they won't enjoy.

Thats why certain people only do certain planes for Il2/Forgotten Battles... one guy only did the PZL P11c, because he wanted to see it in the game.

So, in reality- they aren't spreading talent too thin, because that talent would _NOT_ work on one of the other projects due to lack of interest.
-SW

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #24 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:14:34 PM »

We have our differences here.

But still when are any of thse games going to be available to the public?

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #25 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:19:52 PM »

I read recently that open beta will be sometime soon, "when" in the computer world is as definitive as saying "what if".

As for our differences, ask anyone with the know-how to create 3D objects for a game if they would willingly waste their time on a project they had no interest in?

Then, go and find out how many people actually learned 3Dstudio stuff to create a plane they liked a lot for a game of a certain era.
-SW

funkedup · « **Reply #26 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:24:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
We have our differences here.

But still when are any of thse games going to be available to the public?

2 weeks, asssuming they don't start Target Angola or Target Malvinas and further divide their efforts.

Dowding · « **Reply #27 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:30:02 PM »

It's Falklands, and it's staying that way. It would therefore be called Target Falklands, which would feature Harriers knocking the stuffing out of Argy stuff.

Target Argy-Bargy would be even better.

funkedup · « **Reply #28 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:37:37 PM »

I think I struck a nerve.

If the game comes out, I will own you with my Etendards.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #29 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:46:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I read recently that open beta will be sometime soon, "when" in the computer world is as definitive as saying "what if".

As for our differences, ask anyone with the know-how to create 3D objects for a game if they would willingly waste their time on a project they had no interest in?

Then, go and find out how many people actually learned 3Dstudio stuff to create a plane they liked a lot for a game of a certain era.
-SW

The problem with your argument is that you are putting it into absolutist "all or nothing" terms. Youre saying that each of these people has only one area of interst and has no interst beyond that whatsover. My stance is that most people likely have several areas of interst and knowledge but of course some are stronger than others. When the choice is available they would go with their prefferd era. And i think thats great from a humanistic perspective but it does dilute concentration of talent neccesary to get stuff done if everyone is off doind so many different projects. And frankly so far it seems history is on my side, hasnt Korea been promising a beta "soon" for some two years?