Author Topic: Targetware.... (Read 2367 times)

Wanker · « **Reply #45 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:25:10 PM »

Arlo and SW, for what it's worth....I understand what you both are saying. Don't know why Funked and Groinhurts can't grasp the reality that the Target Flanders folks probably wouldn't be interested in helping out with Target Korea.

Groinhurts' initial thesis is hogwash, and Funked is just having a bad hair day.

funkedup · « **Reply #46 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:26:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by banana
Don't know why Funked and Groinhurts can't grasp the reality that the Target Flanders folks probably wouldn't be interested in helping out with Target Korea.

What I'm saying is that they should be interested. I wish everybody had chipped in and finished TK, then moved on to TR or whatever. The emphasis on TR really disappointed me, and is part of the reason I lost interest in the project.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #47 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:33:37 PM »

Actually the original open beta promise was Q1 2001. Claiming history is on your side in this case is ludicrous.

Funked, I didn't claim history was on my side - Grunherz did. Read the thread from beginning to end rather than however you are reading it because you apparently missed the flow of this thread.

If X people work on Y projects, the projects will take longer to complete than if X people worked on 1 project. Is this a hard concept to grasp?

Try this concept Funked, if X people are willing to work on Z project, then the project will get done in a certain amount of time. If Y people hear about T project being started, and had no interest in product Z, then began working on project T because their interest lay there- then their work has no impact negatively or positively on project Z.

Is THAT concept hard to grasp? Because thats exactly what is happening with Targetware.

You wanna know whats ludicrous? To believe that someone who never worked on Target:Korea, but instead joined up to work on Target:Rabaul or Target:Flanders when it was announced would for some reason have ended up working on Target:Korea even though they did not do so while knowing about the project.

For someone to dedicate their free time to something, there has to be interest in that project. Obviously these people working on Rabaul and Flanders had no interest in working on Korea, or else they would of been there from the getgo.

This is how it is, not your rendition where people were pulled from Korea or would have worked on Korea had these new projects in which their interest lay been started.

THERE WAS NO DIVISION OF LABOR!!! THERE WAS ONLY ADDITIONS TO WORK ON THE NEW PROJECTS! THEY WOULD NOT HAVE WORKED ON KOREA BECAUSE IF THEY WOULD HAVE, THEY ALREADY WOULD HAVE BEEN DOING IT!

If that isn't crystal clear, then I doubt even Stephen Hawking could explain it to you.
-SW

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #48 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:34:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by banana
Arlo and SW, for what it's worth....I understand what you both are saying. Don't know why Funked and Groinhurts can't grasp the reality that the Target Flanders folks probably wouldn't be interested in helping out with Target Korea.

Groinhurts' initial thesis is hogwash, and Funked is just having a bad hair day.

Because it's not true - if people hadnt rushed off and started all these different projcets specializing in all sorts of differnt eras then the number of skilled people availble to finalize TK would have been greater. Thats a simple fact - unless of course you subscribe to the idea that the average person in the talent pool must only have one are of interst and no others.

Nifty · « **Reply #49 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:35:19 PM »

until I can play it, it's Vaporware.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #50 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:38:08 PM »

And I am right SW they are over two years behing schedule for their beta.... Thats history...

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #51 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:39:40 PM »

Yeah, their open beta is two years behind, but you are completely 100% incorrect in saying its because Rabaul and Flanders were started.
-SW

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #52 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:43:46 PM »

Less resources slows production.

BTW why do you think they are over two years behind schedule?

funkedup · « **Reply #53 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:46:20 PM »

The main reason they are behind schedule is because everybody involved has a day job.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #54 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:48:48 PM »

First one I won't even respond to, I have explained that one to you several times by now. There simply isn't any other way to put it into any better wording.

BTW why do you think they are over two years behind schedule?

Uhmm, lets see... because the people putting their time into the project do it in their free time, which is after putting in 40+ hours a week, being with their wives/friends/family, eating, going out, etc...

Now lets compare that with companies who have people working on projects 8hrs a day, 5 (or more) days a week, and getting paid for their work....

They are actually tied in overpromising and underdelivering.
-SW

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #55 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:50:02 PM »

"overpromising and underdelivering"

My thoughts exactly!

As for the other thing you still cannot get beyond your "all or nothing" view...

Wanker · « **Reply #56 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:50:16 PM »

Quote

Because it's not true - if people hadnt rushed off and started all these different projcets specializing in all sorts of differnt eras then the number of skilled people availble to finalize TK would have been greater. Thats a simple fact - unless of course you subscribe to the idea that the average person in the talent pool must only have one are of interst and no others.

I don't believe that the average simmer has only one interest. But, I repeat, but.....if it consumes their own personal time and requires much effort, then I *do* believe that it would only interest someone who is passionate about that particular genre.

I don't believe that someone who is passionate about WWI sims would agree to sign up to work on a Korean War sim, just because there isn't a WWI sim to work on. The only people who would do that are people who want to help out on *any* sim, regardless of genre.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #57 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:55:56 PM »

One last time Grun, then I am going to have a nice conversation about world events with my dog and cats.. certainly they will be much easier to explain things to than you.

Because they had the option to work on Korea, BEFORE Rabaul and Flanders began.

When those two were announced, people signed up to work on Rabaul and Flanders... while they never signed up to work on Korea.

This says that their interest does not lie in Korea, but instead in Rabaul or Flanders, because thats where they decided to put their time into.

The problem is, you still do not understand that simply because there is no WWI or WWII project- those people would not just suddenly decide to devote their time to a project they obviously have NO interest in.

Atleast banana understands, phew!

-SW

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #58 on:** July 01, 2003, 02:59:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by banana
I don't believe that the average simmer has only one interest. But, I repeat, but.....if it consumes their own personal time and requires much effort, then I *do* believe that it would only interest someone that is passionate about that particular genre.

I don't believe that someone who is passionate about WWI sims would agree to sign up to work on a Korean War sim, just because there isn't a WWI sim to work on. The only people who would do that are people who want to help out on *any* sim, regardless of genre.

Lets say they are more MORE passionate about WWI than thy are passionate about korea.

Why do you asuume that they will forgo any and all opprtunities to pursue their Korea passion bacuse their WWI passion is stronger?

Your whole model still hinges that one area is absolute over all others - particularly you imply that one will forgo lesser passions alltogther if the primary one is somehow unavailable. I dont think thats a reasonable assumtion.

Arlo · « **Reply #59 on:** July 01, 2003, 03:03:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Less resources slows production.

BTW why do you think they are over two years behind schedule?

You still seem convinced that if someone has the skill and tools that they'd gladly refurbish a Porsch if they weren't into Mustangs. Not everyone is so eclectic.

However, there may be some modelers, artists, etc. that do have interests in more than one TW sim (I, as a player, have interest in 4 of them). And yes ... if they wanted to work on both (or more) then they'd either have to manage their time and put in alot of effort to do so simultaneously or ... concentrate on one or the other. But that's their decision (and really the only element even remotely related to your argument that TW:K's slow progress is due to player/developers using TW for their own particular projects). But blaming the developers/contributors of one TW for the slow progress of another TW is really more akin to blaming football fans for the poor turnout at baseball games.

Seriously ... if the entire TW:K team decided to hop on the TW:Teurel bandwagon ... would you applaud?