Any way to fight in 190's?

[Ecke-109-]

lol..right..for certain reasons, 109's fit best to me.
Great climbrate, good e-management, powerfull 30mm's, good acceleration.
And even if the 109g10 is close to La7's performance, 109's are defenitely not everybodys darling.
They have their weak points, and that makes them kind of challenging.
And not the last point...they are german planes.

your trouble is exactly that....always 109

Yepp, thats why i try to manage FW190, from time to time.

Best of both worlds.

Kurt Tank and Dr. Messerschmitt should better have worked together.
A 109g10 with the 190a5's rollrate...hmmm....that would be nice.
 

Ecke

[SLO]

lol.....


I know you like german uberness....but you should really try LA5.....205.....Yak......and my Fav. Typhoon......your style would fit those planes....mostly the Typhoon though.....combo of good ammo and fast accl.....

[MANDOBLE]

Originally posted by Ecke-109-
I mean...is it me or the 190 that i feel a bit helpless when coalt with an enemy (which is not a 190)?

If both are coalt it will depend on the difference in speed. If both planes are coalt and same speed, it will depend on what will do the enemy after the merge. If both of you follow the same pattern trying to maximize your E, then the 190 will be, in most cases, switching to deffensive.

[gofaster]

.... I killed two of his squad mates when I was in the 190A8 and they were in Mustangs (see "There I was..." posting above)

In the FW190A8 you're going to find yourself in a lot of HO situations, mostly because your plane has a wide turn radius (well, wider than Spitfires, N1Ks, and Hellcats anyway).  That's why I bring maximum firepower.  Fire early, fire for effect, knock your target into a billion pieces before he can get an accurate aim on you.  Embrace the HO if your target gives you the opportunity.  Just make sure you get out of the way at d500 or you may lose parts of your plane at the convergence of your target's fire.

The Yak9U taught me a lot about aim and ammo conservation.  You should fly it a few times to get a feel for it.  You might find that your 109 flying will improve.

[SLO]

they where squaddies....not me....or you woulda been dead:p


bah yak9u is for sissy's.....

try yak9T...only 32 buwetts:D...now that will help with aim.


but I know ECKE has no trouble with aim.....he's a good driver....just needs more air time in something diff. then 109's


and listen too mandoble.....he has good uberness knowledge

[MrCoffee]

Havent read any other replies to this topic yet but heres my take. I think the AH 190 is more disadvantaged than other fighters because of the game, not so much the plane. Though the 190 cant turn worth s**t, thats besides the point. Its possible to get lotsa kills per sortie in a 190. Anybody who has flown with me knows that this is true. Individual results may vary though. Even though your asking for a miracle if you want your 190 to turn 180 degrees in time to evade a kill or get one I personally feel the biggest problem is that there are so many experienced flyers in AH that simply do not make many mistakes. Thats one of the main reasons why I do not partake in turn fighting too much against more agile aircraft flown by seasoned pilots. The AH main arena is filled with "aces", very dangerous place. Yet experience doesnt matter as much when you implement the most important part of combat, surprise. Especially when you have four mg-151s to surprise them with. Stay fast, stay stealthy, stay alive, and dont miss.


As far as TNB in a 190, its possible but only if your tanks have drained down (means you cant TNB for very long) past 50% and you are VERY comfortable with throwing that bird around at stall speeds. I would draw comparison to those free style cyclist that do neat tricks with their bycycles. TNB will get you killed in a 190 so I dont do that unless I have to or feel that my opponent may be prone to making mistakes. I would not go and TNB any opponent. Thats sort of like the dagger of 190 fighting styles. In a 190 Im hunting 90%, TNB 10%.

[Furball]

Originally posted by gofaster
.... I killed two of his squad mates when I was in the 190A8 and they were in Mustangs (see "There I was..." posting above)  

You must have been VERY lucky

[Duedel]

Sry guys but i dont agree. 190 is surely one of the best turner at 300mph. Dont forget this and use ur roll rate and u can be sure to get the snapshots u need to kill the enemy. OTOH Ecke u fly ur 109G10 mostly in BnZ modus (or at least as an E fighter). So whats the problem with the 190? If u take the D9 u have a G10 with better roll rate, better dive handling and a bit worse climb abilitiy. The acceleration is also good.
If u take the A5 or A8 u can IMO be more agressive than in D9 cause u can "turn" with ur enemies at least 90°. This is enough for many enemies, cause they will change direction and u get ur ... guess what ... snap shot.
If u have a spit or N1K that does a sustained turn to outturn u u can simply fly straight and run. With a P51 it is harder - as described above.

[MANDOBLE]

Originally posted by Duedel
Sry guys but i dont agree. 190 is surely one of the best turner at 300mph.

Disagree with that. While your instant turn rate will be averagely good (N1K2, 109s, P51s, Spits, Typh, La7, La5, Yak9U, F6F, F4U, FM2, C205, 110G2 will outturn you or turn with you without problems at 300 mph), you are going to lose too much energy in a single 360d turn, even worse when the 190 is D9 or A8. 190s have a small advantage when turning at 400mph, but, again, your speed will drop very quick. Basically, if you need to turn horizontally in your 190 more than 45 degrees (to get a kill), you are doing something very wrong and more than probably you are going to be dead in few more seconds.

[Kweassa]

Warhawk in the Bishops, is also a deadly efficient 190 pilot. He's particularly good with the 190A-5, and also deadly with the D-9. Try seeking him out and fight him... he has a very aggressive style of 190, and frnakly I can't figure out how he does that.

[Urchin]

Generally, the best piece of advice you can get is don't fly alone.  The D9 can fly alone, as long as the pilot is extremely cautious.  Even with the D9 you really have to stick with straight Boom and Zoom (think pendulum type attacks, an aggressive E style of fighting is not possible in the 190 like it is in the 109).  The A5/A8 are to slow, and they can't accelerate or climb their way out of trouble like a 109 can.  

If you get stuck in a situation where you are facing a slower plane like a spit or N1K2 that has more speed than you, there are a couple things you can do.  If you are 1v1 with him, you are OK.  If you are around a pack of them, just bail because you are going to die.  The first thing you need to do is get him away from his friends, so you will go into a relatively shallow dive to get your speed up to something approaching his.  Usually 350 mph is fast enough to keep them from closing on you.  Next, you actually want to put him on your tail, and get him away from his friends if at all possible.  If his friends decide to come to, and they are all slower than you, just keep running.  If just the one guy decides to follow you, you can engage.  What you will do is from a distance of 1.5k or so, go into a nice gentle turn to one side.  If he keeps heading right at you, tighten the turn up as he gets closer.  Ideally, he will be coming straight in doing about 350-375, and you will be pulling about a 4-5g turn coming across his nose.  Now, you basically make a barrel roll around him as he comes in shooting.  Going from your turn, you roll wings level, and pull up.  As he passes under you, you roll to put the top of your head where he will come out (lift vector), and pull straight back down.  If this is done correctly, you will be seeing him fly past through your gunsight, but you will be upside down.  Don't bother to roll right-side up, just learn how to shoot inverted.  Now if Mr. Spit decides to pull hard back into you and start a flat scissors, you will have maybe 1 or 2 more shots at him before he slows down enough to kill you.  Hit those shots.  If he decides to zoom, you will basically start the process over, so you run to get your speed back up, then try to sucker him in again.  Do not follow him up in a zoom, because you will be roped and killed.  

The 190 is really a one trick pony in a fight.  You have to learn how to hit any shot you can get.  The 190a5 can manuever relatively well, but the firepower is awful.  The 190a8 has decent firepower, but the manueverability is awful.  The D9 has awful manueverability and awful firepower, but it is fast at least.  

For the 190d9, Mandoble is probably the best pilot to learn from if your goal is not to die.  He flies Boom and Zoom, but he flies it reasonably aggressively.  I fly much to aggressively in the D9 to be any good in it.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Ecke-109-
Are there any ways to fight in an agressive manner in 190's?
I dont expect them to go in to a close turnfight.
But is there something else like B&Z to be sucessfull?

I mean...is it me or the 190 that i feel a bit helpless when coalt with an enemy (which is not a 190)?

I would really appreciate to get some films.
Please send to: ecke@abbeville.cc
I have some 109 films to swap

Thank you,
Ecke;)

BnZ is an aggressive tactic, it's just that many think BnZ means one pass and run like hell for the nearest friendly horde.  BnZ, properly flown is extremely aggressive because the whole point is to be on the offensive the whole time while setting up your target for the kill.

It's been a long, long time since I've flown the FW190 (way back in early AW4W days) but it's a great energy fighter and usually any energy tactic, employed correctly will work.  You should head on over to NetAces.org and read the lectures from BulletHead on Energy Management and Tactics, it will help you out a lot.


Ack-Ack

[Ecke-109-]

BnZ is an aggressive tactic, it's just that many think BnZ means one pass and run like hell for the nearest friendly horde.

Ack-Ack,
lets stay serious
I am not very familiar with the terms.And please correct me if i am wrong.
Imo BnZ means:
to have an advantage in altitude (or speed, which i give up for alt). And from up there i start attacking downwards to the enemy. I come close with speed ,hoping for a snapshot, while the enemy flys a defensive turn against my direction. After the merge, i use my speed to climb above him again to repeat the attack.
Often, it looks like continuously flown loopings.
And somewhere at the bottom of the loopings is the target, hopefully presenting me a solution for a snapshot.
It depends of the skill of the attacker how often he can repeat. Because every loop consumes a little bit of energy ( or alt, what is the same), if not proper flown.  

If that is BnZ, i do it often while in 109.
But in 109, BnZ is just an act of preparing.
From loop to loop, i fly them tighter to increase the pressure. And as soon as the enemy offers me the chance to follow him in to his turns, i do it.Thats the moment where the enemy gets big eyes and cold sweat. I stick like glue at his six.
And it depends on the skills of my opponent how long he allows this 109 to stay behind him.
The point is, to notice the moment,when its better to break.
And then i can count on 109's acceleration.

That is, what the 190 cant do. And that is why i asked if there is something beside BnZ in 190.
If the defender has some skills, BnZ really can change to bore&zoom. From up to 20k to down low on the deck.

Ecke

[straffo]

Read that at Soda's page :

Fw 190A-5

Fw 190A-8

Fw 190D-9

Fw 190F-8

Next ask Apar our squad FW dweeb and after we can wing a bit together

The FW at the exception of the D9 should not been used without wingman ... at least not by a suicidal dweeb like me

And don't forget that the FW have a generous amount of ammunition so you can spray a little
(shotgun effect you know )

[Kweassa]

Yup. BnZ is a passive tactic in nature.

 There aren't many planes that can kill the enemy strictly relying on BnZ passes. Usually it is a 'set-up' move where you force the target to bleed lots of E, so that you may take a very advantageous position to start off with the "real" attack.

 Otherwise, the only instance where BnZ has any real value as a tactic which can actually shoot an enemy down, is when you get an unnoticed clean bounce, or when hordes of planes are attacking one low enemy. Almost always, BnZ is utterly useless when the target notices your presence.