Author Topic: Any way to fight in 190's? (Read 2053 times)

bigUC · « **Reply #45 on:** July 09, 2003, 05:07:13 AM »

Let's not forget the HO here, gents.. When low and slow it's a viable option. 190's are small and has a good gun package. Loose off a salvo at 1000 yards and get out of the way

The dispersion of 30mm, 20mm and 13 mm will ensure a few hits. Just stay away from hispanos

krazyhorse · « **Reply #46 on:** July 09, 2003, 08:32:40 AM »

hehe i like this thread, hey ecke i remember a fight a couple of months ago iin which after about 5 minutes you popped an a8 with your 109 was a hell of a fight though wish i'd filmed it, i find 50 fuel and a drop tank get alt , takes awhile and use it for what it was design for , a 1st strike machine, with the aft tank burnt off 1st and use your nous to turn not the tail always nose down, now by no means am i an expert, but i aint to bad in it, haven't flown for awhile though, good luck.

Ecke-109- · « **Reply #47 on:** July 09, 2003, 10:30:40 AM »

Thanks to all,

a lot of input here.
It looks like the first thing i should be used to, is to switch the tanks manually.
I did that in the past a few times. But i found it uncomfortable to always keep an eye on the fuel-indicator. But now i guess its mandatory, when trying to be sucessfull in 190.

Hey Krazyhorse.
Very sorry that i didnt remember our fight. I shouldnt smoke so much. Its worth to keep fights against 190s in memory. Because there arent so much.
Respect to all 190 riders which are coming close to my 109 for having some fun together.Tough guys..silly guys...but always brave.

You fly 190 with only 50% and DT? Isnt that a bit short?
Since 2 months or so, i start taking off in 109 with 100% plus DT.
( Thanks to Yaws for inspiration:) )

Ecke

mars01 · « **Reply #48 on:** July 09, 2003, 10:43:19 AM »

MANDOBLE,

If we are in the scissors then our speeds are close.

If the con is fast enough to go vertical its safe to assume the so am I. If we are in the slow latter portion of the scissors then neither of us are going vertical.

krazyhorse · « **Reply #49 on:** July 09, 2003, 11:18:51 AM »

actually yes, not much time after ya drop your tank, get yer kills and run like hell , now that may not be everyones way but in that bird thats how i fly it

mars01 · « **Reply #50 on:** July 09, 2003, 11:40:55 AM »

Yep,

Mandoble I retract my last post - Yes the 190 A5 will go vert.

So wildwing's maneuver will work on a noob, but any seasoned 190 pilot will be able to counter.

TW9 - I just took a spit 5 and a 190 A5 off line 50% fuel for both. It was surprising to see they are quite similar in this regard.

The Test:

Take off the spit speed 120, get 100 ft above ground throttle to idle till speed was 100, full power pull back strait up. It took about 8 to 9 secs to reach stall and wing over at about 850 ft.

Take off in 190 A5 speed 100, get 100 ft above ground throttle to idle till speed was 100, full power pull back strait up. It took about 8 to 9 secs to reach stall and wing over at about 900 ft.

Try it your self. I know I have faced these moves in the MA and won in an A5.

mars01 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 09, 2003, 12:26:33 PM »

Hey TW9,

Yeah the spit is definitely more forgiving at low speed no doubt about it.

I like the stability of the spit, but I can't stand flying around that slow. It puts me to sleep and the roll rate sucks.

If you look at the HTC charts the A5 out climbs the spit to about 5k then the spit takes over. The A5 owns the spit in top speed throughout the curve.

Once a 190 driver gets comfortable with the low speed characteristics ( good use of rudder ) I think it is the other way around. Under 5k the spit is dead 8). Above 5k the 190 driver has to watch the 500 fpm better climb rate of the spit but the speed difference should help the A5 driver equalize that.

I'll check out the H2H, sounds like fun.

Good Luck, see you there.

mars01

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #52 on:** July 09, 2003, 12:36:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ecke-109-
You fly 190 with only 50% and DT? Isnt that a bit short?

75% + DT, 100% + DT or 100% as minimum. And, if you have the advantage, try to keep your DT as much time as possible.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #53 on:** July 09, 2003, 12:40:24 PM »

The 190A5 pretty much dominates a Spit V in every department except for turning. Particularly in scenario or snapshot situations, unless a Spit V manages to jump an A5, the A5 quickly tends to control the fight and may enter or egress at will.

-- Todd/Leviathn

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #54 on:** July 09, 2003, 12:47:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
the A5 quickly tends to control the fight and may enter or egress at will.

Unless the SpitV decides to do a so elementary move as gain alt, where 190A5 cant compete at all.

mars01 · « **Reply #55 on:** July 09, 2003, 01:38:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE

Unless the SpitV decides to do a so elementary move as gain alt, where 190A5 cant compete at all.

Yeah above 5k in an A5, and then it is only about 500 fpm, so the 190 extends while spit climbs, uses superior speed to zoom climb and maneuver is neutralized and both pilots are asleep. lol.

The D9 will out perform the spit in climb and speed all day long.

You make it sound like the 190s are no match for anything. lolh. I like the move counter move thing going on, definately a good way to get tactics down. for some good ideas.

Oh well.

TW9, sorry I meant I'll see you in there at some point - I have to go quell my MA craving, if it suks as usual, I'll check out the H2H 8)

mars01

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #56 on:** July 09, 2003, 01:38:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Unless the SpitV decides to do a so elementary move as gain alt, where 190A5 cant compete at all.

You do realize, of course, that the A5 easily outclimbs the Spit V under 5k. Above that, it's close enough as to not truly become an issue in an actual fight. Given the A5's superior top speed at just about every altitude, it's unlikely that the Spit V could peel away long enough to utilize any climb advantage over 5k anyway.

Unless you're suggesting that the Spit V should simply climb to an altitude above the 190A5 before engaging, which is pretty silly since an altitude advantage in anything represents an often insurmountable obstacle to the lower plane.

-- Todd/Leviathn

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #57 on:** July 09, 2003, 02:22:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
You do realize, of course, that the A5 easily outclimbs the Spit V under 5k. Above that, it's close enough as to not truly become an issue in an actual fight.

Of course, A5 climbs below 3000 fpm at 10k, SpitV at 3500. If that is not an issue, the advantage of A5 below 5k is an issue in actual fight? BTW, you are talking about substained climb rate at a constant speed, and this kind of climb is not ussual in combat. End of futile discussion.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #58 on:** July 09, 2003, 02:48:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Of course, A5 climbs below 3000 fpm at 10k, SpitV at 3500. If that is not an issue, the advantage of A5 below 5k is an issue in actual fight? BTW, you are talking about substained climb rate at a constant speed, and this kind of climb is not ussual in combat. End of futile discussion.

Yes, I'm talking about sustained climb rate at a constant speed because you never made it clear what you meant by "decides to do a so elementary move as gain alt." Do you mean zoom climb? Grab alt out of the fight? A sustained climb? It's not at all obvious what you're saying here.

In any event, as usual you're wrong. At least you bailed out early before it got embarrassing.

-- Todd/Leviathn

mia389 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 09, 2003, 04:32:22 PM »

hehe P38 will kill em all