Author Topic: Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC  (Read 1638 times)

Offline moose

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2001, 12:15:00 AM »
hmm.. people take this game too seriously.

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Offline humble

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2001, 12:19:00 AM »
I was absent when all this occured. The points raised come from people I respect from general conduct over the Year+ I've been flying AH...as an owner of multiple business's I have to defend HT's right to conduct business as needed.

However, it's evident that two seperate issues are raised here.

1) An understanding of TOS....even in an unformal manner

2) An understanding of enforcement policies


As I see it the current TOS is unclear in it's scope and intent. Naths' booting is viewed as arbitrary by some if not many members of the community. While recognizing the reality of the benevolent dictatorship, as a business person my primary "rules" are deliver a quality product and listen to my customers. AH certainly meets the 1st standard...the open nature of the BBS certainly goes 95% of the way toward #2...SO...Rule #3 is...I do what I think is right sfter following 1&2...so I guess Nath tweaked the wrong person at the wrong time...end of issue.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline humble

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2001, 12:20:00 AM »
BUT....truthfully I think a suspension goes alot further than A ban in the long run.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline wolf37

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2001, 02:55:00 AM »
hiya all:

man oh man do I ever miss flying with/against you all. ( stomping feet and whinning)  *  waaaaaaa,  I dont know who gunman26 is, waaaaaaa*  

well I will be be back soon I hope, and no I was not banned.  LOL

wolf37

Offline Zigrat

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2001, 02:56:00 AM »
i know you dont all ahree with me but

i thinknath bdps skill made him exempt from being nbaned imo, though obviously htc duidnt feel the same way

just  the way citabrtra acts the same way sometumrs and i dont thinm hge shoudn be banned cuz he is good too

ban  the guys who suck at teh game and talk toejame,. but the guys who can show theuir skills yo back it up deserve the leeway in is my book

bah im not even   CUSTOMER SO WHATS DOES IT MSTTER


BTW IM   DRUNK  PL DISREGARD MY DIFFICULT TO READ TEXCT

MrSiD

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2001, 04:40:00 AM »
Multiplayer games like AH need a code of ethics. Especially since we're dealing with WW2 air combat where the pilots actually respected eachothers sometimes..

Of course even then there were bad persons, but during wartime emotions go wild. It's hard to stay politically correct when the enemy slaughters your family.

I'm 120% sure that if the old timers of the community can snap out of the madness and show good example, while setting strict rules on radio behaviour to the new users, we ALL will enjoy this game much more.

When players enjoy their stay in the game, they play more and subscribe more.

It's as simple as that.. Letting a few idiot customers ruin the fun for the rest of the paying customers is simply BAD BUSINESS for HT.

If I was him I'd warn twice, eject on 3rd anyone who fails to follow the 'code' of aces high gameplay. If booting for a couple minutes won't do the trick, then ban or cancel the agreement referring to the userlisence the players signed when subscribing.

Wouldn't it be SO much more fun to fly in an atmosphere where the good ones are respected, the losing ones are <S>aluted, the new helped..?

Or do we prefer a game full with screaming monkeys, trash, foul language and days of logging out in disgust.

Think about it.

Edit: removed the foul language and the excess profanities from the post ;-)

[This message has been edited by MrSiD (edited 05-12-2001).]

Offline StSanta

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2001, 05:02:00 AM »
Some interesting replys, some less so. I liked ammo's "you're full of BS" in particular.

I've gotten my response from HTC.

I'd still like some general guidelines. Mikod and others did an excellent job of detailing why. Jekyll pointed out that critique on this board.

I didn't make this thread orient around whether Nath ban was correct or incorrect. I didn't ask for input from users on whether he should be allowed in. It was a question to HTC, and the answer now has clarified the situation for all of us.

I feel that some posts in this thread have actually been productive and asked good non nath related questions - and that is the essence of the post I made. Nath was the example to illustrate a point. My question regarding if nath would be allowed back was made for 9./JG 54 members. I simple "yes", "no" or "it's between us and nath" sufficed, and I got my answer.

Miko, Jekyll and others have argued nicely regarding the need/non need for general guidelines. Think everything has been said and the thread can die.

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"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

Offline Nash

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #67 on: May 12, 2001, 05:27:00 AM »
Santa I follow the O club and from yer posts there I know yer way too smart fer this. You *seriously* want some kinda rulebook as to what is cool and what is not? Nah man I don't buy it. That's silly and u know it.

Offline StSanta

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #68 on: May 12, 2001, 07:30:00 AM »
Nash, no, I just want some broad official guidelines, such as "abuse HTC ch1 and you get banned".

"Abuse every one in MA and you get a warning".

Something like that. It seems that just because there isn't one, people are taking advantage of it. Stuff like "well, squelch me if you do not wanna listen to me, you potato skynazi boy". Guidelines would help; i'd point at 'um and say "nope, ain't my responsibility".

But, I can also settle for .squelch, I gather. In an ideological way, it's a bit of a copout, but I'm a pragmatic person and whatever does the job...

Maybe it's common sense, but there are aspects of it that definitely are muddy.

Oh well, I'll let it rest

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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

lazs

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #69 on: May 12, 2001, 09:12:00 AM »
jekyl... that's kind of a stretch even for you but.. I pay my thirty bucks and can leave without notice at any time and, in the same vein...  I feel that HTC can ban anyone they want from their bus. anytime they want and for any reason they see fit including me.  Probly they will use some discretion but it's up to them.   I think they do a pretty good job at this... they should, they've had enough practice.  I bet if I or anyone else got banned they would have a pretty good idea why and probly own up to at least a share in it.

I also think that HT and co have a sense of humor (look it up jekyl).   If a guy is humorless, arrogant, wrong and pissy (sorry LW guys) then they are a lot more annoying than someone saying the same things in a humorous way.  If someone gets emotional and angry it is also harder to put up with.  

I sure as hell don't want anyone but them deciding who get's kicked off the island.   the egomaniac little napoleaons I see in this group have raised HT and co to even handed sainthood IMO.   Sheesh we would have guys making up charts and taking "polls" on it before the week was out.  

If they want to give some kinda loose guidlines, fine but... I ain't askin em for em.  If they want to throw out anyone it's up to them.   If they do a good job people will stay.  If they throw out too many people for triffling things then they will probly lose customers.  It's up to them.
lazs

Offline Wanker

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #70 on: May 12, 2001, 09:34:00 AM »
Zigrat said(as he hoisted another beer)  
Quote
i thinknath bdps skill made him exempt from being nbaned imo, though obviously htc duidnt feel the same way

Zig, that's utter BS. Nobody should be exempt from having to act like a civilized  human being while they are online with other people.

Sounds to me like Nath could use some more skill.....social skill, that is. The hot-stick-smack-talking-bad-boy image he cultivated was his own doing. He made his bed, now he's sleeping in it.

All you appologists for Nath are looking for something in writing...a strict definition, so that you can find loopholes in it, or point the finger when HTC nails one jerk and doesn't nail another jerk. Got news for ya, HTC isn't stupid, and they're not going to accomodate you. Get over it and move on.


 

Offline Kieran

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #71 on: May 12, 2001, 10:32:00 AM »
banana, you hit on the thing I see every day, and perhaps is the point HTC sees as well.

The more you define specific behavior that is acceptable, the more loopholes you build. You would be amazed at the number of disputes I see every day from kids who skillfully argue they have avoided violating the specific rule, despite having broken the spirit of the rule by a mile. No one is smart enough to write an all-inclusive-every-possibility-accounted-for rulebook. It just won't happen.

Some of you seem to think this is the first time someone has been kicked out. It isn't. Remember about a year ago, a little screenshot that got posted with someone going off on private with Hblair? Ask him about it if you don't trust my memory. HTC doesn't stand up and say "Hey, guess what, we just banned so-and-so!" No online business does. What I find amusing is that no one (to the best of my memory) defended the person- then again, he wasn't such a hot pilot or big name.

The one point I see as valid here is whether the procedure is being applied equally. That is difficult to say, as Nath was given a large amount of rope to hang himself (as was Towd- funny, where are all the Towd defenders?  ). It could be there always was a process, it is just that it takes a long time to receive a ban. It could be that people have to travel so far down the pipe before decisive action is applied. Maybe not. Still, we have to trust HTC to do it right.

Think of it this way; even the jerk has rights, and HTC has to be careful to give even the jerks every chance to do the right thing. When enough evidence is compiled, the jerk is gone. I don't think I ever heard that one bad screenshot is enough to ban anyone. Lucky for us, huh? Everyone has bad nights, everyone loses it a bit on the channel, that is human. I feel HTC tries to look at people on the balance, getting a full picture before decisions are made. Yes, I feel there are people in the game that are pushing their luck right now- there are always those that will. If history shows us anything precious few will receive the ban, but those that do will have thoroughly earned it.

Offline -ammo-

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2001, 11:11:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta:
Some interesting replys, some less so. I liked ammo's "you're full of BS" in particular.


I just call it like I see it. To say that you knew this wouldnt turn into a long discussion, rehashing it all again, is absurd. the person at hand cant or won't post and it is a personal matter between him and HTC. It is uncalled for, you know there are some really different opinions on this and it does nothing but serve to divide.

Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline moose

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2001, 11:21:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Zigrat:
i know you dont all ahree with me but
i thinknath bdps skill made him exempt from being nbaned imo, though obviously htc duidnt feel the same way

just  the way citabrtra acts the same way sometumrs and i dont thinm hge shoudn be
banned cuz he is good too

ban  the guys who suck at teh game and talk toejame,. but the guys who can show theuir skills yo back it up deserve the leeway in is my book

bah im not even   CUSTOMER SO WHATS DOES IT MSTTER


BTW IM   DRUNK  PL DISREGARD MY DIFFICULT TO READ TEXCT


OH MY!
<----ASSASSINS---->

Offline StSanta

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Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2001, 03:07:00 PM »
Ammo, I ain't no future teller.

Look at the way my post was constructed, and please tell me how it invited the hate nath fan club to start going off.

Nath and gunman26 were used as examples. At least place the blame where the blame is due.

------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"