Nath's ban; quickie questions to HTC

[StSanta]

I'm writing this in the public forum because I, and at least some others, need more information regarding Nath's ban and HTC's guidelines with regards to bans/warnings.

Nath's behaviour that night wasn't very good. He openly critizised on ch1 certain aspects of the game, that since have been discussed and beaten into enough dead horses to provide hamburgers for a smaller nation for a year. More specifically, there was critique about the island map and cv's in general, as well as some FM issues.

All of which have been discussed, more civilly but equally critically, on this BBS by various members of this community.

It's now 6 weeks since Nath was banned. Since then, I've taken multiple screenshots of newbies and veterans alike behaving badly. One guy in particular, gunman26, has behaved in a very destructive manner. He is, however, still in the game.

This guy calls people potatos, squeakes and whatnot and is a constant nuisance. He is making the AH community look like a hostile one full of a bunch of misogynic homophobic idiots.

When Nath was banned, initially there was a flood of posts full of schadenfreude. Later, people's brains started working again and more sensible comments on the subject was made. Arguments and counterarguments were made.

One of these was "HTC is drawing the line". I believe it's true and that they have.

It is not clear to me HOW they have drawn the line - quite clearly abusing newbies and veterans alike isn't enough for an immediate ban.

So, what I'm asking for is perhaps a "rules of conduct and general guidelines" file - something that explicitly tells people what HTC policy is.

Gunman26 is still in the game - Nath ain't. Haven't seen an apology from gunman26, but I have seen Nath apologize, and I'm confident that he has learned from this whole experience.

But, the decision is up to HTC for reasons they do not have to explain. Of course a company like this is partly dependent on qualitative things that are hard to measure, like goodwill from customers so there's a balance that has to be found.

What I and the rest of the squaddies would like to know is "will Nath be unbanned?" and if so "when?".

I won't question HTC's right to do as they please with their product. But I'd really appreciate a tad bit more info on the nath situation, and general guidelines.

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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[mx22]

He got what he deserved. I've been online when he was talking to HT and on his place I would have ban the guy too. I really don't care how much of a good flier he was, all I care about is that there is one less annoying person in the arena. I just hope HTC will ban others too, this would make MA much more enjoyable place to be in.

mx22

[StSanta]

This post isn't about that mx22, as stated.

Please don't hijack the thread, I feel this one is important.

The essence of the post is about guidelines. Added to it is a personal 9./JG 54 question regarding if we are gonna see him back, and if so when

And, I feel it is important for us to know guidelines, and know whether nath will come back or not (us squaddies would like to know).


------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
 

[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 05-11-2001).]

[Dingy]

I think the difference is that Nath personally attacked the staff at HTC whereas the other idiots you mentioned are just being obnoxious.  

So my take on the guidelines are thus: if you are going to call ANYONE an amazinhunk, make sure they dont work for HTC.

-Ding

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by mx22:
He got what he deserved.

I don't think StSanta is arguing whether or not Nath deserved to be banned.  Rather, he's arguing whether or not Nath's actions were so anathema to the community that he still deserves a perma-ban while others in the community -- gunman26, Citabria when it's that time of the month, and more -- have acted in ways that I'd consider equal to if not worse without consequence.

Obviously Nath's banning hasn't acted as a deterrent to such behavior.  So the question then turns to why the punishment was so disproportionate to that of the others.  That's a fair question IMO.

-- Todd/DMF

[Maverick]

My $.02 on this subject.

I also think gunman is out of line and needs to be removed from the game.

I see no reason to bring back Nath even though I do think his apology does show at least the potential to "grow" a bit. His behavior was not a sometime thing but was the rule for him. For that reason I think gunman needs to suffer the same consequences.

Santa, I applaud your loyalty to a squaddie but I do not think the game needs Nath back.

Mav

[StSanta]

Yes, that was the point. You put it more precise and eloquent than I did.

 

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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[MrSiD]

More disciplin = more fun.

[Checksix]

 

Originally posted by Dingy:

So my take on the guidelines are thus: if you are going to call ANYONE an amazinhunk, make sure they dont work for HTC.

-Ding

Dingy S!

the politics of the cult are different from the ethics or acceptable behavior in the game.

just let it lay StSanta, but you said well what didn't need to be said. S!

[bloom25]

This gunman26 guy is the first person I've ever felt the need to .squelch when playing AH.  He seems to have to make at least one profane comment on the open channel everytime he gets shot down.  That would equal a lot of comments.  

I'd say if HTC doesn't ban him, they should implement a perma-squelch on his radio buffer.



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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS

[Dago]

I talked to HT about this kind of thing once.
He made some good points.  If you publish standards,  and someone violates them with nobody around from HTC to see it, will the other players complain and blame HTC for failure to maintain in the game the standards?

We also know how some immature types like to tap dance around any set rules.  HTC instituted a language filter because of all the quake rejects, and some of these fools just had to prove they are determined to act stupid by slightly altering the way they spell banned swear words.  

You want HT to set firm behavior rules?  He wont.  Does anyone really need them?  Cant we police our own actions and not need written rules just so we can see how close we can get to them?

Most mature individuals have no problem in Aces High behaving in a decent manner.  Only very rare, very immature fools will ever be "muted", and an even rarer fool will be banned by his extremely poor behavior.

This game is HT's livelyhood, as it is for the other 5 colleagues of his at HTC.  They need to excerise a small measure of control so a select few dont drive away numerous paying customers. Just as important in my mind, is the fact that nobody who works even half as hard as the HTC folks wants to put up with anyone continually slamming their efforts.  The HTC team work very hard to give us a great product, putting their all into it.  It just isnt fair for them to take abuse every time they get online.  This just drives a wedge between them and the players.  Most of us want open lines of communication with HTC, we like to be able to see them online to ask question, offer suggestions and enjoy some level of friendship.  I, nor do most players appreciate a few jerks from making their online time aggravating and keeping them away.

Will Nath be allowed back?  That of course is for HTC to decide, but if I were allowed a vote, it would be no.  At least not until he grows and matures, and that from what I have seen will take years, not a few weeks.

Dago

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by Dingy:
So my take on the guidelines are thus: if you are going to call ANYONE an amazinhunk, make sure they dont work for HTC.

I wasn't there, but my understanding is that Nath did not call anyone at HTC an amazinhunk.  Funny how these things get filtered through the grapevine and turned into something different than what actually occurred.

-- Todd/DMF

[Toad]

Has anyone ever been banned that simply and consistantly used common courtesy and civility in their dealings with other players/people?

I think those guidelines are obvious, simple and clear enough, don't you?

I don't expect HTC to write out a 1000 page "don't" list that covers every single possible situation. These situations are and ALWAYS WILL BE judgement calls.

I'm fortunate in my job that I'm the one that makes these calls.   With all the "air rage" cases going around situations may arise that call for "banning" (land and unload the offending person into the waiting arms of law enforcement).

Guess what? I don't have a personal written policy and neither does my company. It's a judgement call and the decision is made by the appropriate on-scene authority. Me.  

I'm aware of gunman26 as well. I watched his chat very carefully last night. I think he stayed within bounds, at least on Ch1 and Ch2. If he doesn't, don't think I won't mention it to him private (and forward screens to HTC if I think its necessary. I agree that all players share in the responsibility for the playing environment.) That wouldn't be sufficient evidence alone, however. It would be just one more factor in the ultimate decision.

In your area of concern, the decision wasn't made over one particular instance. It was a cumulative, long term situation I believe.

The same process is most likely going on in gunman26's case (as well as a few others). If and when the axe falls, their will be a sufficient, documented history to justify it I am sure.

As to anyone returning that again would be a judgement call that is solely the responsibility of HTC. This game belongs to them. Again, I see absolutely no need for written guidance.

HOw to avoid Banning? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Real simple, obvious rule.

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 05-11-2001).]

[DamnedATC]

In defense of HT, You surely cannot expect HT to release any information about any actions they may or may not take on a player.  

If you see other people doing things that you think are inappropriate/offensive, you have a choice of squelching, filing a complaint, or doing nothing about it.

Remember, because you see someone else doing it, does not make it right.  They just have not been caught.    

ATC
   


[This message has been edited by DamnedATC (edited 05-14-2001).]

[AG Sachsenberg]

I love running a good streak against that chisel monkey gunman.  And BTW just because he says stuff on channel is bad wait until you see what he sends you on private