Author Topic: Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan  (Read 1887 times)

Offline SLO

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2003, 08:07:22 AM »
oh my!!!

gonna hate myself for this.....but I agree with....huh!!...hortlund:D

at least here they can express there religious beliefs....

try going over there and express your own beliefs.....not gonna happen....

anyways.....I'm an athiest....I truly believe 'RELIGION' sucks:D

Offline Dowding

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2003, 08:39:12 AM »
Mjolnir - I was assuming that, unlike Maniac, Hortlund was making a non-infantile argument. I'd safely assumed Maniac was trolling, but Hortlund was not -  evidenced by the fact that he's expressed these same views repeatedly in the past.

The argument I outlined (in quotes), which you quoted and which maniac began his thread with is that of a bigot. I'm sorry if that word, and it's correct application, offends you.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline lazs2

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2003, 08:39:44 AM »
the girls get $2500 if they don't get hit.  They get $1000 if they do.   They are not drugged or coerced... in fact.. there is a waiting list and they must meet standards for looks.
lazs

Offline Gunthr

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2003, 08:43:16 AM »
Hortlund makes some good points about certain tenants of the Islamic faith that can make it quite intractable to change. But Dowding correctly points out that we shouldn't paint all muslims with the same brush.

Muslim extremists like bin Laden want there to be a "clash of civilizations" between Islam and the West.

Most muslims in the west do not want this at all, and consider the deliberate targetting of innocent civilian non-combatants to be a great sin. We should not unjustly lump these people in with the extremists.

The "moderate" muslims are considered to be sellouts by muslim extremists. I think it would be a terrible mistake not to give these muslims all the support we can. And there a lot of them. To unjustly lump them in with the terrorists just puts them between "a rock and a hard place", and makes it harder for them to be moderate when they are treated as terrorists by ignorant individuals. I would not want to foster the idea that all muslims are terrorists ... it just plays into the terrorists hands.

Just the sheer numbers of muslims world wide means that we have to differentiate between the extremists and the moderates.

Here is an example of moderate Islam:  

Muqtedar Khan
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Saurdaukar

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2003, 09:12:59 AM »
IMO:

The Islamic world thinks of the United States as 'the great satan' because of our difference in the amount of religious involvement in everyday life.

The 5 pillars of Islam demand a variety of things, but they are all interwoven into every day of a Muslim's life.  Politics, education, marraige, etc etc etc.

The United States went through great pains to seperate religion from everything political, educational, and the every day life of the average American is no where near as 'religious' as that of a Muslim.

They dont understand why or how we seperate religion from everyday life and percieve one of two things:  We are Godless or we worship money.

Offline Sandman

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2003, 09:29:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by CyranoAH
Well Dowding, now that you mention extremisms... I WAS expecting the spanish inquisition! :D

Daniel


NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
sand

Offline GrimCO

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2003, 09:41:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
Well did you check the film? they werent even wearing paintball masks! no one knows how this will end, djust wait and see...


Well I could be mistaken here, but I assumed that the object of stoning was to cause a person's demise. As ludicrous as shooting paintballs at naked women is, I doubt it's intent is to cause their death, whether they wear a mask or not. It's a pretty big stretch to try to compare the two.

I'm guessing the guy that came up with this "Bambi Hunting" feces probably hated his mother or in the extreme opposite has a case of the old oedipus complex. At any rate, I hardly think it's why the Islamic world thinks of the U.S. as the great Satan. In fact, there's probably a few Muslim men who would enjoy taking a shot at a woman with a paintball gun. The only difference is she'd be wearing a burka.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 09:49:35 AM by GrimCO »

Offline mjolnir

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2003, 09:43:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Mjolnir - I was assuming that, unlike Maniac, Hortlund was making a non-infantile argument. I'd safely assumed Maniac was trolling, but Hortlund was not -  evidenced by the fact that he's expressed these same views repeatedly in the past.

The argument I outlined (in quotes), which you quoted and which maniac began his thread with is that of a bigot. I'm sorry if that word, and it's correct application, offends you.


Haven't really found anything yet that offended me (except possibly for Teddy Baby).  It's just that the term 'bigot' gets thrown around this forum so often I think most people have no idea what it really means anymore.  You can't honestly say that you hold no biases whatsoever, because everybody has some.  Some are just more apparent than others, and some people choose to be more vocal about them.

Now Hortlund's declaration that "Islam = pure evil" is indeed a highly biased opinion.  Perhaps you were right is using the term bigot.  Islam, by and large, is a peaceful religion, as anyone who has studied it knows.  Like I said, not all muslims stone women to death in public.  Different countries interpret the Quoran in different ways.  A classic example is the way females dress.  Some countries still go by the "nothing exposed" rule (Saudi Arabia), some countries have taken a more western approach and don't care if their women wear jeans and t-shirts (Jordan and Egypt come to mind).

Nonetheless, if you boil his replies down to the "some arabs do this so they're all bad" arguement like you did, then it becomes just as trivial as maniac's "some americans do this so they're all bad in the eyes of arabs" that started this thread, and we're back at square one.  Everywhere you go in the world, there are weirdos.  It's a fact of life.  The other 98% of the world sits back and watches them and thinks "Gee I'm glad more people aren't like that."

Offline Dowding

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2003, 10:07:28 AM »
Teddy Baby? I'll not ask where and how that was used. ;)

I can't honestly say I have no bias - but I dislike organised religion, in its various forms, pretty uniformly. Just about all of them are concerned with the centralisation of power in a few individuals, via human weakness.

As for Hortlund, he started with the premise that Islam is pure evil and then gave an example of why. I don't think it is a huge leap of the imagination to surmise that the followers of the religion are painted with the same brush, as it were, in his eyes.

I agree that most, if not all, problems in this world are the result of a minority of weirdos.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Ripsnort

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2003, 10:17:09 AM »
Wow, great chumming action Maniac .

Offline Rude

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2003, 10:21:08 AM »
Well, this is interesting.

I tend to agree with the author of this thread....the US is viewed by most in the muslim world as corrupt. We really have not set a consistently positive example for them or others in the world. Our secular and materialistic motivations are an afront to muslim beliefs.

Now, having said that, this country is more than the examples we have tossed around....unfortunetly, positive and uplifting behavior wont make the headlines...doesn't mean it's not taking place on a daily basis.

While typing this, the thought occurred to me of the 911 hijackers and their jihad....they were hangin out in strip clubs and other stories place different terrorists groups engaging in similar behavior.

It's a crazy world we live in.

Offline midnight Target

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2003, 10:31:38 AM »
I give it a 7 for content and an 8 for presentation.. well done!

Offline funkedup

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2003, 12:56:10 PM »
Islam is peace.

Offline rc51

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2003, 12:56:57 PM »
Well Well!! LOL.
WHO Is the dumbest here?
1. the men shooting the paintball guns
2. the Bimbos running around getting shot in the prettythang
3. Or the dude running this little circus

Well My vote goes for #2.


As far as muslims stoning women.
LOL what do you expect from the silly bastards.
I mean they are about as Dumb as they come.
A rather insignificant people if there ever was one.
:p
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 01:01:43 PM by rc51 »

Offline Fatty

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Why the Islam world thinks U.S is Satan
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2003, 01:25:56 PM »
If any of your wives or any females reading want to pay $5000 to shoot paintballs at a naked Fatty, I am available.