Author Topic: Troop Whines? (Read 1245 times)

Maniac · « **Reply #15 on:** July 18, 2003, 03:33:49 AM »

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If you have never served then you have no grounds to even speak on the subject...

*cough* bull**** *cough*

Dowding · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2003, 03:50:35 AM »

Did you see 'Fighting the War' Schaden? Did you see how tightly the journalists were controlled? That's why this supposed 'slip-up' is so bizarre.

This wasn't a "Hey kid, just step behind this wall and tell us how you really feel - off the the record of course" kind of a deal. I know how convenient such a scenario would be for some people. This show was orchestrated and set-up by the local commanders - I can see no way this was done without their knowledge.

mjolnir · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2003, 04:17:12 AM »

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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
lol too funny...think about these points.

1. Those that have laid their lives on the line in combat for America and their Gov. perhaps deserve more than most the freedom to say how they feel - they've earned that right.

And yet in a bizarre twist of irony, we don't have that right. That's part of being in the military. Voluntarily accepting some restrictions on the very rights that you fight to defend. Military members do not have the kind of free speech that civilians do.

For example, if you get fed up with work, you can go tell your boss off, call him all sorts of interesting and creative names, and walk out the door. If anyone in the military tried that, they could suffer non-judicial punishment at the least, court martial at worst, and if they tried to just walk out and not come back, then they're AWOL and will probably face jail time.

So no Schaden, the military has the least right to say how they feel.

(and yes, before the question comes up, I am in currently)

_Schadenfreude_ · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2003, 04:21:52 AM »

Yep have been following Fighting the War and actually been impressed both by the facts that when major screw ups happen
they are shown warts and all - those shown, from the marine fished out of the water after an ambush to the Major who asks his Sergeant - not orders - to go back to sweep the ambush site in unarmoured hovercraft, the Sergeant who agrees to do it are all a credit to the British army.

The MOD did bleat a bit but far more good is done by allowing the men serving to say on camera exactly how they feel rather than censoring anything.

I also noticed that the British Army are pulling their main units out for 6 weeks home leave before sending them back in for another 3 months tour of duty.

Hell even the politicians - such as we've seen, Geoff Hoon in particular come out of it in a good light.

_Schadenfreude_ · « **Reply #19 on:** July 18, 2003, 04:30:42 AM »

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Originally posted by mjolnir
And yet in a bizarre twist of irony, we don't have that right. That's part of being in the military. Voluntarily accepting some restrictions on the very rights that you fight to defend. Military members do not have the kind of free speech that civilians do.

For example, if you get fed up with work, you can go tell your boss off, call him all sorts of interesting and creative names, and walk out the door. If anyone in the military tried that, they could suffer non-judicial punishment at the least, court martial at worst, and if they tried to just walk out and not come back, then they're AWOL and will probably face jail time.

So no Schaden, the military has the least right to say how they feel.

(and yes, before the question comes up, I am in currently)

Yes that point was made by the General at the press conference in Washington after the piece was aired - stupidity at the top allowed this to happen - if the troops had been replaced by fresh troops coming into theatre for a say 6 month tour then there would have been no public embarrasing complaints.

Was it Montgomery who said "There are no bad soldiers, only bad officers?" The soldiers don't trust the politicians, they still deserve the support of the public.

Scootter · « **Reply #20 on:** July 18, 2003, 07:34:12 AM »

Raubvogel said :

Oh, and I'm sure that if interviewed, none of those troops who served 12, 18, or more months would have said that they wanted to go home.

Are you fediddlein stupid? Who isn't going to want to return home? Because the guy is honest you call him a *****? Have you ever spent that long in a dangerous place?

yes have you?

Of course they want to come home, they all do, are you the master of the obvious or what?

I have served, and the U.C.M.J. does not give the troops freedom of speech and they are not covered by the same rights as are the citizens (if you don't know what the UCMJ is it proves my point about your ignorance (look it up). I’m sure you are smart enough to understand why the freedom of speech thing is applied to the troops in a combat zone (think capture).

Also keep in mind you take an oath when you join up and this is all explained to you under the all VOLUNTEER military.

When they hand you a weapon and give you training you are very sure what you are in for and are going to be required to do.

If you panty wastes think (the whiners) represent all of the military , think again.

I agree no one wants to live like that but to think its going to be a cakewalk is ridicules, what should we just pack up and leave now, think that would be fair? think anyone in the world might criticize us for that?

I have been there in the past, and now have family there, they are not and their units are not wining (yes there is a few cub scouts in any unit and yes the press found them and made what they say news).

In the last 3 months there have been over 75 murders in the state of Kalifornia (look it up) why no posts about this travesty, huh! where were all the human rights lib’s when SH was killing folks at 1000's a month where.

Seems that you will find anything do down our government and this country like it is fashionable or something.

When I was in the service it was in vogue to down the chow and complain about it, guess what it was pretty damn good and we all liked it and had seconds most of the time. The point is that it was cool to whine about things and in fashion to do so, seems that way about this country also. Please at least think about your complaints and your whines as you have your freedom chow and also ask for seconds (I heard there are other chow halls not as good).

Scootter · « **Reply #21 on:** July 18, 2003, 07:48:28 AM »

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Originally posted by Frogm4n
i thought we fought those wars so crap like this didnt have to happen again.

I bet if we waited for our Nato buddys to join in we wouldnt have to keep our troops there for so long.

But you know saddam had tried to buy uranium from africa so we had to go in now!

What do you think that the past wars were fought so we would never have to fight another war, thats a nice but bit wishfull thought.

We have few willing NATO "buddys" these days, to bad. We are learning about this and it may come up in the future when someone ask's (needs) our help, we shall see.

This is still up in the air so don't be so quick to take big bites of this issue either way. Seems that things are not as they seem right now, stay tuned.

If Saddam had nothing to hide and was in compliance with the UN he really missed an opertunity to make W look real bad, end the sanctions and keep his cush job and his country. If that is the case.. bad call SH.

I think he had a lot to hide and we will find it. (we were still learning about Germany 5 years after the war)

Eagler · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2003, 08:17:10 AM »

how many did the media clowns have to interview to find the whiners? they only televise the ones who help build their story/liberal slanted view..

Zippatuh · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2003, 08:52:27 AM »

Troops whining? Did you happen to catch the rank? Yeah everyone gets tired and a burned out but it’s the job you're assigned and do not have a choice in the matter. Suck it up and do it. The soldier doesn’t get the choice to think, just act on what is given to them.

2:30 in the AM, South Korea, field exercise, January.
Combat engineer’s to lay multiple obstacles for the mechanized attack suspected the next day
A low lying part of a dirt road with a hill on one side, high bank the other, and about 2 feet of standing water across it.
lay seven rolls of concertina with pickets across the road and through the water using the water (ice) as an anchor as well. We had to prove to the M1 jocks that yes we can stop your tank with razor wire.

Troop 1: This sucks, what the hell are we doing. It’s 2:30 and I’m tired. There is no reason for us to do this. I’m wet and cold, when are we going back to tent city. I’m tired of carrying pickets. (over and over and over – well at least twice anyway)

Team A leader (me): STFU! The quicker we get done the quicker we’ll be in our racks. Why are we doing it? You don’t get the right to ask why. Someone with some stars say’s something to someone with bars who says something to someone with rockers who comes down and tells us to stand in the watermelon and lay wire. So, you want to go ask the man why we’re here? Quit crying and get to work.

He did.

Oh, and yes, seven rolls of wire will stop a tank

.

Saurdaukar · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2003, 09:18:43 AM »

All servicemen and women want to go home when they are abroad. It doesnt mean moral is low - but dont let me ruin it for you - Im sure Fox picked the most accurate 30 seconds of the 10 minute interview to air.

"I miss my family and cant wait to see them."

THERE you have it folks!! American Troop moral has hit rock bottom!! There are reports circling that mass defections are taking place in all units, stay tuned for our retraction!

Maverick · « **Reply #25 on:** July 18, 2003, 10:25:05 PM »

Troopies griping is a cherrished "right" that has passed down from before the Roman phalaxes were used. It happens and it's part of having human beings in the line of fire and doing other nasty jobs that most folks wouldn't even think about doing.

What I see going on here is an enhancement of the situation courtesy of the media. Hell yes the troops want to be home and with their families and away from that particular deity forsaken peice of the earth. No sane person would want to be in their shoes right now. The problem is the media already starting to replay the same recording used in the late 60's and early 70's. Any complaints are seen as a demoralized force in the zone. Lets face it, that type of coverage gets the media the attention they want to sell their wares. Good news doesn't sell, bad new does. The more drama they can inject into it the better.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #26 on:** July 18, 2003, 10:37:18 PM »

I was never a soldier.

But I am human.

So purely from a common human perspective I know they are people who have been away from home and family for almost a year so I know they will want to be home and not in some desert not doing the sort of thing we are all told they train for. I know they are frustrated by having their stay repeatedly extended. So I understand how they are dubly upset even without factoring in some sort of combat stress - which of course I know nothing out.

But AFAIK the military has some rules about frredom of speech and public criticizm of leadership by soldiers and this clearly seems to violate it.

Tough issue here, no?

Maverick · « **Reply #27 on:** July 18, 2003, 10:45:33 PM »

Grun,

There are statutes in the UCMJ that prohibit the overt criticism of superiors. The statement about demanding the resignation of the folks in charge would do it, if it were followed up on. On the other hand you do have to allow for some lattitude on the part of those who have been the "tip of the spear" for some time in unfriendly territory. Most of this is likely to have been blown out of proportion and is eagerly used as "proof" of problems with the miltary or troops. On the other hand, coming down real hard on troopies who spoke to the press WOULD be an indicator of problems. Almost like a catch 22 here and it calls for walking a fine line.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #28 on:** July 18, 2003, 10:51:22 PM »

Thats what I was alluding too, time for some good mid management here..

Raubvogel · « **Reply #29 on:** July 19, 2003, 03:04:36 AM »

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Originally posted by Scootter
Raubvogel said :

Oh, and I'm sure that if interviewed, none of those troops who served 12, 18, or more months would have said that they wanted to go home.

Are you fediddlein stupid? Who isn't going to want to return home? Because the guy is honest you call him a *****? Have you ever spent that long in a dangerous place?

yes have you?

Just to set the record straight, I'm going on my 14th year of Army service, and I spent 9 months in SW Asia during the last Saddamapalooza. After 6 months I was told I was going home, then a week later I found out I had to stay 3 months more. **** yeah I was pissed off, who wouldn't be? These guys were told they had to do a job, they did it. Now they find out the job isn't finished. It's human nature to get pissed off at **** like that. Volunteer service or not, it sucks.