Author Topic: Walter Nowotny's grave (Read 3785 times)

Batz · « **on:** July 20, 2003, 07:03:06 PM »

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Vienna council shifts Luftwaffe hero from plot of honour to pauper's grave
By Clare Chapman in Vienna
(Filed: 13/07/2003)

The ashes of a daredevil Luftwaffe pilot who shot down more than 250 Allied planes in the Second World War are to be exhumed from a grave of honour in Vienna after the council stripped him of his status as a war hero.

The campaign to remove Major Walter Nowotny's remains from the city's Central Cemetery and move them to a pauper's plot has been led by the grandson of a British RAF pilot who was shot down over Belgium in 1940 and died of his injuries.

David Ellensohn, a Vienna city councillor whose maternal grandfather was RAF acting pilot officer James Gillespie, successfully argued that Major Nowotny - the first fighter pilot in history to bring down 250 enemy aircraft - had been serving the Third Reich and did not deserve his heroic status.

"He was not fighting for this country, for Austria, he was fighting for the Third Reich," said Mr Ellensohn, a Green Party councillor. "If they had won the war, there would be no Austria as such. Therefore, we should not be forced to give special credit to this man."

Major Nowotny, who had shot down 258 enemy aircraft by the time of his death, aged 24, had been awarded the Third Reich's highest military honour, the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds, by Hitler himself.

When the major died in 1944 when his fighter crashed in flames, his ashes were buried with his medals in his home town, Vienna, alongside Austrian resistance fighters and Beethoven, Schubert, Johann Strauss and Brahms.

Mr Ellensohn asked: "What did he do that earned him a place alongside those who really earned their places in the cemetery, such as resistance fighters Rosa Jochmann and Paul Speiser?

"He was placed in that section of the graveyard by the Nazis, not by the city of Vienna, and although it has taken 59 years for the city to recognise that he does not deserve to be there, we are pleased that action is finally being taken."

The council's decision has been denounced as "cultural barbarianism" by Johann Herzog, a councillor for the opposition Freedom Party (FP), which has launched an appeal.

Opposition councillors argue that relocating the major's ashes would contravene the war graves welfare law, from 1948, that says war graves - regardless of the nationality of their occupant - must remain undisturbed.

Mr Herzog said: "The necessity to dishonour Nowotny's grave, and therefore his person, almost 60 years after his death, is evidence of a distorted understanding of history and moreover a lack of deference for a fallen soldier. And that's all he was - a soldier.

"He was not a member of the National Socialist Party and he certainly was not a war criminal. If he were, I could understand the removal of his status. In fact, he was respected not just by his own side but by RAF pilots as well."

Sascha Gasthuber, of the far-Right Germania group, said protesters carrying flaming torches to show their contempt for the vote would march against the council's decision. "Nowotny gave his life to make sure the future was worth living in for us and our children. We cannot sit back and let them dishonour
his memory like this."

Mr Ellensohn, however, insisted that the plan to move the grave away from the cemetery's section for heroes was perfectly justified. "As far as I am aware, there is no rule in Catholicism that says a grave cannot be moved, not like in Judaism," he said.

Major Nowotny, who joined up when he was 19 following the invasion of Poland, was renowned even among Allied pilots and during the summer of 1943 became a virtual one-man air force in the skies over the Eastern Front. In June 1943 he shot down 41 aircraft, 10 in one day. He crashed on November 8 1944 and was buried with his medals a few days later.

Batz · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2003, 07:08:27 PM »

The above is incorrect but instead of editing it I will leave it.

From

This thread

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=3051;article=68647;title=Luftwaffe%20Discussion%20Group%3A%2012%20O%27Clock%20High%21;date_query=1058536190

@

Ludtwaffe Board

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This thread triggered a much longer (and even more acrimonious) thread over on hyperscale. In the course of that one, someone posted a copy of a German-language article from Vienna indicating that Nowotny's remains would not now be moved, only that the city council would no longer pay for maintenance of the grave. That would now be the responsibility of surviving members of the Nowotny family.

I saw the article else where and then found more info from the board linked above.

-tronski- · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2003, 08:10:23 PM »

I would think any person killed serving his country honourably should be treated with all possibly respect.
To have this changed in anyway for either Polictical correctness, or political expediency is quite frankly wrong.

Tronsky

Animal · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2003, 08:23:07 PM »

I agree that he was NOT a hero of any kind.

But I do not agree with the decision of having his grave moved. Why now, after so long, and not right after WWII was over?

Not that he cares anyway. If hell exists, he is burning there along with his masters Hitler and Goering. He has other things to worry about.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2003, 08:33:34 PM »

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Originally posted by Animal
I agree that he was NOT a hero of any kind.

But I do not agree with the decision of having his grave moved. Why now, after so long, and not right after WWII was over?

Not that he cares anyway. If hell exists, he is burning there along with his masters Hitler and Goering. He has other things to worry about.

According to many Japanese there are hundreds of thoudsands of American veterans burning in hell as we speak...

Animal · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2003, 08:34:38 PM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
According to many Japanese there are hundreds of thoudsands of American veterans burning in hell as we speak...

Yeah, religions are ****ing stupid.

SOB · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2003, 10:22:25 PM »

Yep, he sure is dead.

SOB

funkedup · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2003, 10:24:16 PM »

That's pathetic. These PC revisionists suck azz.

Nash · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2003, 12:11:25 AM »

"The campaign to remove Major Walter Nowotny's remains from the city's Central Cemetery and move them to a pauper's plot has been led by the grandson of a British RAF pilot who was shot down over Belgium in 1940 and died of his injuries."

Sore loser.

(ish)

rc51 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2003, 12:30:16 AM »

I'm A Jew and I bear no grudge against this man.
As i see it he was just doing what he was trained to do in war.
The fact that he did it so well is besides the point.
He is dead respect the fallen warriors on both sides.
Let him Rest.

hyena426 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2003, 12:33:02 AM »

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I agree that he was NOT a hero of any kind.

he mite of not be a hero to us,,but he was one hell of a fighter pilot and desurves to be honored with everyone else,,,just because he flew with the nazi's doesnt mean he is evil

should we dishonor all the russian ww2 heros too? sence they were fighting for stalin?<~~worst mass killer in history,if there country decided its going to go to war or kill people,,they have to do it,,like it or not

blame the leaders not the solders,,there just doing a job,,they got no choice in what is right or wrong,,there just defending family and freinds like most of us would do

Duedel · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2003, 05:11:02 AM »

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Originally posted by hyena426
not the solders,,there just doing a job,,they got no choice in what is right or wrong,,there just defending family and freinds like most of us would do

No, sry man but thats not true.
Blame everyone cause without soldiers the leaders could do nothing. If there where more people with NUTS like Stauffenberg and his conspirators, this idiotic moron Hitler wont have survived so long. What the conspirators did is what i would call "defending family and friends".
IMHO even the ones that dont where members of NSDAP but served them where guilty. Guilty for dont having the nuts to be against this regime. Guilty for just doing "what they where told". I dont have respect for these guys. The only thing they had was fear. They would die for Hitler and HIS war but they wont die to prevent this war? This is cowardice.
If we had more people that would have fought the Nazis maybe we than had a civil war, but better having a civil war instead of causing the 2nd WW.

Nowotny was an exceptional pilot and surely he only did what he thought was right to do but there where to many with this attitude...

Fishu · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2003, 05:19:56 AM »

he·ro ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hîr)
n. pl. he·roes

2. A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.

...some looser, who I guess is not a hero himself, is judging hero status by the side?
Would be interesting to know what he would think of the finnish heroes, since with the current philosophy hes applying on the 'hero' status, he would be "wrong" regardless did he say no or yes for the finnish heroes.

Sixpence · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2003, 05:24:39 AM »

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Originally posted by Duedel
No, sry man but thats not true.
Blame everyone cause without soldiers the leaders could do nothing. If there where more people with NUTS like Stauffenberg and his conspirators, this idiotic moron Hitler wont have survived so long. What the conspirators did is what i would call "defending family and friends".

Good point. But that being said, I don't think they should disturb the grave. The reason being is that I would hate to see other war graves being dug up for similar or not so similar reasons(unless the family would like to relocate). It's in the past, let it go.

Duedel · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2003, 05:32:39 AM »

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Originally posted by Sixpence
Good point. But that being said, I don't think they should disturb the grave. The reason being is that I would hate to see other war graves being dug up for similar or not so similar reasons(unless the family would like to relocate). It's in the past, let it go.

Yep, thats my opinion too Sixpence.