PFC Lynch gets Bronze Star and Hero's welcome..

[rc51]

Originally posted by davidpt40
Can anyone tell me about PFC Miller?  Was he killed in action?  I heard somehwhere that the 'hero' of the battle was shot and stabbed, perhaps this was Miller.

Killing 9 Iraqis while being only a PFC and the rest of his convoy was either pinned or stunned, now theres something to be proud of.

He is alive and was rightfully so awarded the silver star.

[davidpt40]

I was searching and found a PFC miller that was killed in action, 19 year old Anthony Miller (Iraqi indirect fire).  I guess Miller is a pretty common name in the military.

Has the Army done anything to address the M16 jamming problem?

[miko2d]

davidpt40: Has the Army done anything to address the M16 jamming problem?

 It's not a problem. It's a feature of an M-16 rifle. Nothing at all can be done to address the jamming problem and still keep it shooting straight.

 You either get a reliable autometic rifle or an accurate one. If you figure out a way to combine both, you would be a billionaire.

 For short-range fighting in a dusty/sandy environment where you are not necessarily the one initiating a firefight (so you cannot prepare your weapon accordingly), a Mini-14 (basically an M-14 in 5.56 NATO) would serve much more reliably than an M-16. Of course you would never get the same accuracy.

 miko

[Jack55]

A listing from an unofficial source on who got what award, but not any of the individual citations.


http://www.elpasotimes.com/stories/borderland/20030703-132016.shtml

[Zippatuh]

Originally posted by davidpt40
Has the Army done anything to address the M16 jamming problem?

They did in the report.  It says something about the weapon not being maintenanced and taken care of properly for the conditions they were in.  .  PFC Miller’s didn’t seem to have a problem.  I wonder if he cleaned his regularly?

Others had the same weapons and were in combat conditions and didn’t seem to have the mechanical problems the 507th had during the ambush.

They’re a maintenance company that was on overdrive from wrecking, fixing, and towing other equipment.  They simply did not think to keep their weapons in good condition.  They were in the back and by all accounts probably considered themselves one level above RAMF’s.

It will end up being a big learning experience for future commanders and support personnel.  I bet the 507th will be used as an example for many years to come.

[anonymous]

Originally posted by miko2d It's not a problem. It's a feature of an M-16 rifle. Nothing at all can be done to address the jamming problem and still keep it shooting straight.

 You either get a reliable autometic rifle or an accurate one. If you figure out a way to combine both, you would be a billionaire.

 For short-range fighting in a dusty/sandy environment where you are not necessarily the one initiating a firefight (so you cannot prepare your weapon accordingly), a Mini-14 (basically an M-14 in 5.56 NATO) would serve much more reliably than an M-16. Of course you would never get the same accuracy.

 miko [/B]

spot on about reliability and accuracy. never had problems with the 16s myself. guys were looking to use 14s in afghanistan so they could get some more range but with no rails wasnt worth the tradeoff of losing optics and a gl if you wanted one. i think they didnt dream of being ambushed and some of the weapons hadnt been properly maintained. ambushing force wasnt that big. marine support units were hit by similar ambushes and fought them off.

[type_char]

Originally posted by miko2d
davidpt40: Has the Army done anything to address the M16 jamming problem?

 It's not a problem. It's a feature of an M-16 rifle. Nothing at all can be done to address the jamming problem and still keep it shooting straight.

 You either get a reliable autometic rifle or an accurate one. If you figure out a way to combine both, you would be a billionaire.

 For short-range fighting in a dusty/sandy environment where you are not necessarily the one initiating a firefight (so you cannot prepare your weapon accordingly), a Mini-14 (basically an M-14 in 5.56 NATO) would serve much more reliably than an M-16. Of course you would never get the same accuracy.

 miko

Very interesting Miko, I've always wondered why they could not completely resolve the ar-15 jamming issues.

I also think that its ironic that during the VN war, the majority of the m-16s issued had long barrels and now the military is upgrading to the M-4 variant with shorter barrel. Most of the conflicts these days seem to be in dessert areas rather than jungle terrain. Not all conflicts of course and if in close quarted combat the shorter barrel could help I suppose. I've read that soldiers in Iraq complained about the range of the m-4 in Iraqs open terrain. Im not an m-16 or gun expert by any means.

[Scootter]

Originally posted by miko2d
davidpt40: Has the Army done anything to address the M16 jamming problem?

 It's not a problem. It's a feature of an M-16 rifle. Nothing at all can be done to address the jamming problem and still keep it shooting straight.

 You either get a reliable autometic rifle or an accurate one. If you figure out a way to combine both, you would be a billionaire.

 For short-range fighting in a dusty/sandy environment where you are not necessarily the one initiating a firefight (so you cannot prepare your weapon accordingly), a Mini-14 (basically an M-14 in 5.56 NATO) would serve much more reliably than an M-16. Of course you would never get the same accuracy.

 miko

There is truth here (hate to agree with miko  lol ) If you keep it clean and lubed M-16 works great and is accurate. Trouble is keeping it lubed in sand storms prevents keeping it clean and they hate to shoot dry. The M-2 (ma duce) BMG .50 likes to be sopping wet with lube and I saw many GI's jacking the handle to clear them on the news after a few rounds. The Mini- 14 or -30 is a loose weapon and will work with quite a bit of dirt in it. The AC-556 was Rugers full auto version and was not really a contender due to it's lousey accuracy. I have a two AR-15's and one each of the Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 and this is true with the semi versions also.

In the desert you need to clean your weapon at least twice a day to keep it working, and that is if you are not shooting it. If you shoot it then clean twice a day and after firing.

[jamusta]

She did absolutely nothing to get the bronze star. If she gets it then all the POW's should get one. The whole situation is an embarrassment. Getting lost. Getting ambushed. Not knowing proper procedure to defend in case of ambush. Riffle jams from lack of maintenance. Unfortunately the Army is using this as PR to cover up the mistakes made.

The M16 is a very capable riffle. It is extremely sensitive to the elements especially moisture. The jamming could have been avoided if they simply cleaned it daily without using tons of CLP, kept the ejection port cover closed and placed a sock or some other cloth material over the muzzle compensator. I have never had an M16 jam on me and could not correct the problem.

[Furball]

can i have a medal too?

[Charon]

The M-2 (ma duce) BMG .50 likes to be sopping wet with lube and I saw many GI's jacking the handle to clear them on the news after a few rounds.

Scotter

Or, even though it's hard to imagine, somebody didn't bother to set the headspace and timing (specifically the timing). It's a somewhat involved but not hard process that involves a firing range, but absolutely necessary when you draw a .50 or you can get no fires or single shots, etc. After reading some of the stuff on Hackworth.com you have to wonder.

U.S. Army leaders: Get your head out

The writer is a Marine Captain and a Light Armored Vehicle platoon commander with 4th Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion, he has been in the gulf since February, crossed the LOD on day one of the ground war and has been in Iraq ever since. Good lesson on why the Army is getting people killed and the Marines are not. -- Hack

"On the Army Captain, I pulled over an Army Convoy of about 30 vehicles and told them to put their flak and helmets on and post some security. I then found some Captain and told him, very nicely, what the deal was with the ambushes and the threats, etc. I told him to square away his convoy. He then tells me that he cannot do that because they are technically not his troops. (I guess it was a mixed bag of units). I asked him if he was serious. He said yes and then I gave him a class about why was still in Iraq b/c the Army was ****ed up and had no leadership starting with him. I then told him "to carry on" and that "I am done with you for now" He then left and got back in his HMMWV."

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Special%20Reports%20Hack.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=17&rnd=338.00142096989134

http://www.sftt.org/article07132003a.html

Charon

[Charon]

I have never had an M16 jam on me and could not correct the problem.

Jamusta

Apparently Jam, it's an "Army of Two" these days. The fighters and the logistic people. CTT stuff is apparently not that important anymore for the "non warriors."
Again from hackworth.com:


http://www.hackworth.com/article04032002c.html

Next to me, my wife Eilhys is scribbling notes even faster than I am. I brought her along to correct for my own bias against coed training and to make sure I'm fair to female recruits. She's writing on a small pad of General Barrett's personal notepaper, which she liberated from his desk along with one of his pens. The ballpoint is complimentary, a give-away souvenir, but the note pad, with its two red stars isn't. Each time she jots something down and rips off another sheet he smiles tightly. When she tells him the chow on post is "despicably unhealthy," he heaves an Al Gore sigh and the projector guy quickly picks up speed.

"We are here to provide these young people with opportunity," he says sturdily.

"Whoa, General," I say, "I thought we were here to prepare them for war."

I can feel Eilhys pulling on my choke leash. Okay, I tell myself. It's not about General Barrett. The Army has a real problem. It has to find those 80,000 people every year to do its job and they're hard to come by right now because the job market's been so target rich. Why sign up for the military and stand in the rain and get blisters and maybe get yourself killed when you can earn good money elsewhere and even MacDonald's is offering management training programs? If you're not from an old-fashioned family with a strong tradition of military service, if you're not a jock or someone born with a warrior's soul, you'd have to be nuts. So you don't have to be a genius to understand today's pressure for maximum bodies, minimum attrition and a triage training philosophy that says: **** it. If they don't get it in Basic, we can square them away when they reach their units.

The problem is, war's not a three strikes and you're out game. One strike, a single mistake, and you're in a body bag with the rest of your squad, your platoon's short, your company's crippled, the battalion's ****ed and at Division HQ they're wondering why the battle's being lost.

He concedes that the recruits are a mixed bag, but says that's the leadership challenge. He calls it Generation D for Digital. "They're less fit, but they're mostly bright. Their motivation is different. They're individualistic. They come in watching tv, playing Nintendo."

They also come in with an aAttitude the size of Duke Nukem or Lara Croft--that cyber chick with the titanium tits in Tomb Raider I, II, and III--and their attitude all too often is inversely proportional to their capabilities.

On that score, Lt. Col. Henry has no illusions. He says his mission is to sort them without prejudice.- "You have to identify what I call the Titanium Soldier," he explains, "And you have to identify the Porcelain soldier. The Titanium is all-varsity, an athlete, tremendous. You can push him hard. The Porcelain isn't doing so well. Maybe he's very scared, or maybe it's just that Grampa told him never to volunteer. You pound 'em too hard and you break 'em. You really got to watch it. These are good people. I don't want to send them home"

I feel the flashback coming--, the day I got off the train at Fort Knox ("Come here, dogface. Your bellybutton is mine." ). I see myself a few days later trotting around the parade ground, holding the 60-pound base-plate of a 81mm mortar over my head, screaming "I'M a BIG bellybutton BIRD" at the top of my voice, shouting and staggering until my arms finally give out, the steel plate misses my head by a hair, and I'm lying with my nose in the mud wondering if I'll ever get out of Basic alive.

The point being, of course, that the very ruthlessness of the drill hardened me for something one hell of a lot more brutal.

Combat.

"That's not our mission," Lt. Col. Henry says. The rough stuff's for the shock troops training at Benning. "Here we're inoculating them for the prospect of maybe having a fight, hanging in there until the cavalry or infantry arrives to save the day."

Tough training for the line units, marshmallows for the rear? Talk about denial. In modern warfare, there is no front. Command and control nodes, airfields, supply dumps, logistics units, transport, the hospital, everything's fair game. If anything, in guerrilla warfare and terrorist actions, those targets are even more likely to be hit. A young sergeant I know put it this way: 'That U.S. Army name tag on your chest is the biggest bull's-eye in the world. These young soldiers are going to be in Korea. They're going to be in Bosnia. They are really exposed, man. When our cooks and clerks ran convoys of deuces and hummers through the streets of Mogadishu, do you think the Somalis were not going to shoot at them because they were 'noncombatants'''

Charon

[anonymous]

Originally posted by Charon
After reading some of the stuff on Hackworth.com you have to wonder.

take the sftt stuff with a small grain of salt. alot of the stuff there is straight from the horses mouth but some stuff there is from someone with an axe to grind and is false. ive seen maybe one of every ten or fifteen 'reports' that i knew was not true in any way whatsoever. one from around a year ago dealt with my unit and the guy that wrote it in was someone who was put in his place because he couldnt buy a clue with a million in cash. but stuff like that is by far the exception to the rule. something about a captain not being able to give orders to post security for a convoy dont sound right. not his units? if hes the ranking o he has the authority. if he wasnt the ranking o the marine capt would have gone to the ranking o. if theres more than one capt with the convoy the would have had a talk amongst the capts about it.

[jamusta]

That definitely sounds like something an army captain would say.. These are not my troops...geeez last i checked you are a comissioned officer in the military.

Been in both branches of service.. USMC and US ARMY

Heres my opinion of both

Marines... From day one it felt like they wanted to get rid of me. From MEPS all the way through boot camp and MCT. It was like I didnt deserve to be in they're beloved Marine Corps. Pride and discipline are very important. 2 NJP's and you can be kicked out. Training is taken very seriously.. Marines will kick you out for failing PT, riffle qual, swim qual, although I never seen anyone kicked out for swim qual. They are stuck in their traditions, which can be good and bad. Thats the reason I got out. Didnt like to be told what I can wear and such.

Army... Didnt have to go to basic for the Army but did go through MOS training. I saw why Drill SGTs are needed at their MOS schools. They dont teach soldiers anything at basic. There is no respect or discipline. They have more money which means better living conditions. Their training isnt up to standard in most units. It is the kinder gentler Army but it was fun. Thats why they call your duty station permanent party.

[anonymous]

Originally posted by jamusta
That definitely sounds like something an army captain would say.. These are not my troops...geeez last i checked you are a comissioned officer in the military.

man if you value your life you wont ever call me a commisioned officer. call me an army commisioned officer in some cultures i could shoot you and it would be justified. sounded weird to me and still does. if the army capt was a ticket puncher and of no worth as a combat o hes still putting himself in a dangerous position when not reacting to warnings of ambush by giving orders to counter such a threat. never been in the army. worked with marines a great deal. when it comes to non special operations units there is a difference ill agree there.