Boring and unstrategic maps

[Octavius]

I know this topic has come up many times.  There have been several threads similar to this one that have been started by players of varying experience.  Many of these thread starters are relatively new and haven't had the chance to read all of the terrain debates.  What bugs me is that some of you jump on these new guys with full armour and weilding flame throwers.

You might scare'em to the point that when a good idea does form in their heads, they'll be too timid to post.  The least you could do is simply state:  "This topic has been discussed, thank you yadda yadda yadda..."


Aside from that...  I don't fly every day, and when I do I don't seem to have a problem finding a fight.   Tonight, there were CV battles a plenty and many targets to be found.  This was around 5-6pm central time.  I had a good time.

[lazs2]

topquark... are you saying that people will like flying 3-7 sectors at a time?   that would mean a kill per hour of like .005..   speaking of which..

creamo.. I think it is a matter of perception and patience.   us low patience type do not find what you do "fun"... intercepting bombers?  that must be a blast for you... with your two kills per hour that means you are spending a whole hour (minus the 1 minute it takes to kill 2 planes) doing.... nothing.   The real secret we would like for you to share with us is.... what do you do during al this down time that immerses you so much?   Laundry?   needlepoint?   catch up on the bills?   please share.

Addmitedly... us 'whiners' who can't be happy flying around doing nothing or joining the "missunz"  to steamroll the toolsheds at A** don't make maps but..  I would love to know what they are thinking when the design a map and see that it is a sector and a half or more between allmost every fight... with a mountain to go around in most cases... What makes em think that the flight time is fun or even useful to gameplayu?   NB didn't like it when he had to actually fly some of those silly distances.

fields far apart mean... long flights to nowhere to do nothing.

lazs

[lazs2]

deja..  I don't think that map design should be geared toward making it a challenge to find a fight.   That seems counterproductive..  If there were lots of places for fights then it would still be easy for those who don't like to fight to hide from them.
lazs

[Mini D]

It has not been a challenge for me to find a fight lazs... with the map that's being discussed.  My K/T has not been this high in some time.  Some of the furballs didn't last much more than an hour, but others went on for nearly 4 hours.  I've never spent more than 20 seconds looking for the next fight.

The only real disappointment recently has been the quality of the pilots both for the enemy side and friendly side.  The MA is at an all-time low in this regard.  I've never seen so much newbie like behavior... and this is coming from someone that usually defends newbie like behavior.

Most of the problems in the MA today seem to be less map related and more behavior related.  Good furballs end because too many people think the best place to fight is 1k over your your own field with 20 other friendlies engaging the one enemy that makes it in.

Dunno... but whenever I see "it's too far to find a fight" I automatically think that moving things closer makes it worse.  Its the fights that are right on top of bases that suck the most.  Its the furballs that occur halfway between bases that are the best.  It just seems the idea should be to keep the fights between bases vs at them.

MiniD

[SLO]

if anything in this game thats got me tickled is not the MAPS.....

its the HO's....

too many newbie's doin the LA7 fly straight and shoot anything....

some will say you can avoid......sorry not true.

Sunday was the worst....

my 1st 6 up's where mostly 2on1's or 3 on1's......me being the 1

all HO kills....

[MrLars]

Originally posted by Octavius

Aside from that...  I don't fly every day, and when I do I don't seem to have a problem finding a fight.   Tonight, there were CV battles a plenty and many targets to be found.  This was around 5-6pm central time.  I had a good time.

Same for me...had some good fun last night fighting from a Carrier that was a bit too far into indian territory, got caught in many 3v1's and managed to make it home a few times with my hair afire in my Zeke o'doom....what a blast!

[gofaster]

Originally posted by TopQuark
This could be controversial but...

I think the maps in AH are extremely boring and there seems to be hardly any strategic element to them at all.

[/b]I find Big Isles to be extremely boring, with a lot of vehicle bases that spawn to nowhere and airfields that don't reciprocally spawn to vh bases that spawn to that airfield.  This causes those vehicle bases to be milkruns for bombers, since the bases really aren't worth defending.

Basically, the problem is due to the fact that all the bases are about the same distance apart so the map as a whole is just a homogenous mass of bases. As bases get taken, the 'front' moves this way and that across the map but it's all just about numbers - slowly taking bases until one side is down to just one. A base capture is just another base for one side and one less for another - there are no real strategic implications or great turning points.

What I'd love to see is something like this - a map with three large landmasses (one initially belonging to each side) but seperated by a large distance (say six or seven sectors at the nearest point). To add some spice, a third central island with just one or two bases could sit in the middle and would provide an important stepping stone to whichever side owns it.

[/b]
Heck no!  You think I want to fly 7 sectors just to find a fight in an FM2?  Just how far do you think a 109F will go?  You make it a 7 sector fight and you might as well say "a map that will only allow you to fly the US and Japanese planes."

Also, more use could be made of high alt bases. Each landmass could get progressively higher from one side to the other so that an enemy could put some energy into taking a high alt base which would then give them an advantage to start sweeping across the rest of the landmass. More high alt action would also give planes like the ta152, p51b and the other high alt kites more of a useful role in the game (the ta152 might as well not exist at the moment, even though it kicks prettythang at alt).

[/b]So, what you're saying is, as a country gets its butt kicked, it wouldn't be flying FM2s, Yak-9Us, A6M2s, A6M5s, or Spitfire Vs?

Because the current maps have bases spread so evenly, it makes little difference where land ends and sea starts - the pizza map might as well just be land only.

Having large stretches of sea between landmasses would also give CVs the important role that they deserve.

What do people think ?

I think for Big Isles and Pizza, the bases are too far apart and favor the faster planes with big fuel tanks.

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Steve
one doesn't have to be a map maker to read a map and know it's inaccurate.  One doesn't have to be a terrain designer to know the terrain SUX.

The big isle map is a nightmare, worse still than pizza... just terrible. I could go on for a long time (while I'm trying to find a fight on the big isle map, in spite of the fact that over 400 people are online).. but i'm as bored here as I am in the game.  Any rebates available when these terrible maps are in rotation? I swear, it's like a contest:  Make a map that saps joy out of the game for anyone but strat lovers.

You know what I noticed last night?  Herding instinct at its worst.

Last night the Rook domain had spread so far that the only bases left to capture were Knight and Bishop mainland bases, which meant that most of the Rook fights were from carriers, which meant that every time I upped I was immediately jumped by Spitfire IXs, Mustangs, and 190Ds (surprisingly few N1Ks and LA-7s last night).  I could get into a position on 1 guy, and have 3 more in trail behind me.

I also noticed more than a few vehicle bases that spawned nowhere.  Those must be the uber secret milkrun bases for the bomber pilots, because those bases sure aren't worth defending and serve no offensive purpose.

The one time I actually tried a base capture was an LVT run on a57, and I exploded as soon as my tread hit the beach.  Apparently, that's a bug with the map.  After that, I didn't try any more base captures.  I also saw a large red bar just north of A57, but couldn't find any enemy planes.  "Oh, that's a bug, too."  So that's 2 ups with nothing to show for my troubles. Maybe the MOTD should say "WARNING! This map has the following bugs:" and then list out the areas to avoid.

After that, I went to do carrier battles where I spent most of the knight dodging hi Spitfires, suicide bombing P-38s, a few Typhoons and Mustangs, and runaway 190Ds.

What I like about Aces High is the realism of how a pair of P-38s can sink a carrier.  Obviously the WW2 pilots were incompetent, since it took them almost 4 years to win the war.  Heck, a single squadron of P-38s could've defeated the entire Japanese navy!

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by TopQuark
This could be controversial but...

I think the maps in AH are extremely boring and there seems to be hardly any strategic element to them at all.

Basically, the problem is due to the fact that all the bases are about the same distance apart so the map as a whole is just a homogenous mass of bases. As bases get taken, the 'front' moves this way and that across the map but it's all just about numbers - slowly taking bases until one side is down to just one. A base capture is just another base for one side and one less for another - there are no real strategic implications or great turning points.

What I'd love to see is something like this - a map with three large landmasses (one initially belonging to each side) but seperated by a large distance (say six or seven sectors at the nearest point). To add some spice, a third central island with just one or two bases could sit in the middle and would provide an important stepping stone to whichever side owns it.

Also, more use could be made of high alt bases. Each landmass could get progressively higher from one side to the other so that an enemy could put some energy into taking a high alt base which would then give them an advantage to start sweeping across the rest of the landmass. More high alt action would also give planes like the ta152, p51b and the other high alt kites more of a useful role in the game (the ta152 might as well not exist at the moment, even though it kicks prettythang at alt).

Because the current maps have bases spread so evenly, it makes little difference where land ends and sea starts - the pizza map might as well just be land only.

Having large stretches of sea between landmasses would also give CVs the important role that they deserve.

What do people think ?

Hopefully your wish will come true with AH:TOD (should be out in 2 weeks). Promised to be packed with Strat up the ying-yang.

Some of us are trying to swing the MA back to a more "fight" centric areana. Flying 6-7 sectors would be the end of my flying when that type of map was up nor do I believe for one second that HT would entertain such a map.

I think that MiniD has hit upon something that hasn't been really discussed yet. The "fight behaviour" sucks !!!

I tend to fly like he does when furballs are lacking. Up at a field and try to take on the 2-4 guys that might be inbound to the field. I would say that 9 out of 10 encounters/merges always results in an HO by the opponent. A simple barrel roll solves the problem, but after avoiding the HO, you look behind to see your opponent continue a straight line "run for your life manouver" never turing back to engage ... they might die ... OH MY COD !!!

Wussies abound in AH and that is one of the major causes of boredom and that is why the "furball" crowd is trying to change things to try to force the wussies to fight.

[SlapShot]

"After that, I went to do carrier battles where I spent most of the knight dodging hi Spitfires, suicide bombing P-38s, a few Typhoons and Mustangs, and runaway 190Ds."

This same picture is observed from all countries ... not just unique from your point of view.

[Toad]

Originally posted by SlapShot
that is why the "furball" crowd is trying to change things to try to force the wussies to fight.

Welcome, Slap.

Looks like Muck is starting to feel the pull of the Dark Side as well. Fun and fast action can be truly addictive, can't it?

How long before we see

SlapShot
[M.A.W.] Furballers
3rd Marine Air Wing
MAG-13 VMF-214

?

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Toad
Welcome, Slap.

Looks like Muck is starting to feel the pull of the Dark Side as well. Fun and fast action can be truly addictive, can't it?

How long before we see

SlapShot
[M.A.W.] Furballers
3rd Marine Air Wing
MAG-13 VMF-214

?

Toad my friend ... this stance is not new for me !!!

Yes .. Muck does see the light or should I say ... lack there of !!!

Changed the sig just for you ... The guys in my sub-squad are addicted too.

[muckmaw]

"You don't know the power of the dark side"

Actually, after the Friday I had, I'll never get into a fighter again!

Talk about getitng your arnold handed to you.

Look at my stats. That's one day! I'm pissed off enough at work!

Even the guys on VOX are getting tired of what's been coming out of my mouth:

"F****** Newbie Mother******..Learn how to fly a real plane.."
"Golly-geen Head-on La-7 C***smoker..."
"Come the F*** down and fight ya F****** Chicken-**** Pony"
"Friggin' Spit! Stick this up your leather cheerio!!!!"

I'm too stressed...I'm going back to goons!

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by muckmaw
"You don't know the power of the dark side"

Actually, after the Friday I had, I'll never get into a fighter again!

Talk about getitng your arnold handed to you.

Look at my stats. That's one day! I'm pissed off enough at work!

Even the guys on VOX are getting tired of what's been coming out of my mouth:

"F****** Newbie Mother******..Learn how to fly a real plane.."
"Golly-geen Head-on La-7 C***smoker..."
"Come the F*** down and fight ya F****** Chicken-**** Pony"
"Friggin' Spit! Stick this up your leather cheerio!!!!"

I'm too stressed...I'm going back to goons!

Patience grasshopper !!!

[muckmaw]

Patience my arnold...I'm gonna go pork a AAA factory and pad my bomber score...

I'll always be a harcore strat gamer, but if there's no working strat, what am I supposed to do?

I guess I'll fur when there's no missions up, or I'm short on time, and mission/strat when there's something going on, or on squad nights.

Bombing will always be my first love....I'm just gonna cheat on her  a little.