Author Topic: The Urge to Merge..F6F drivers..  (Read 1745 times)

Offline muckmaw

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The Urge to Merge..F6F drivers..
« on: August 08, 2003, 10:02:08 AM »
I've been having alot of trouble with merges of late in the F6F. Come to think of it...I've always had trouble on the merge.

I rarely win 1 on 1 engagements. Most of my kills come from massive furballs where I can pick off folks who are involved with others.

Hey, I admit it...I really suck in fighters.

So I really need to learn.

Let's say your in an F6F at 10K coalt with an LA-7 at your 12, 5K out and closing fast. Your flying at 250kts.

What's your first move on the merge, assuming you don't go for a head on?

How does one change this opening move when faced with a spitfire?

I know this is a difficult exercise to play out on a BBS, but if I can learn one tip, it would be appreciated.

Offline Grizzly

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Re: The Urge to Merge..F6F drivers..
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2003, 12:52:57 PM »
First, tip your wings and wave as he passes. Then check your map because one of you is wayyyy off course.

Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
I've been having alot of trouble with merges of late in the F6F. Come to think of it...I've always had trouble on the merge.

I rarely win 1 on 1 engagements. Most of my kills come from massive furballs where I can pick off folks who are involved with others.

Hey, I admit it...I really suck in fighters.

So I really need to learn.

Let's say your in an F6F at 10K coalt with an LA-7 at your 12, 5K out and closing fast. Your flying at 250kts.

What's your first move on the merge, assuming you don't go for a head on?

How does one change this opening move when faced with a spitfire?

I know this is a difficult exercise to play out on a BBS, but if I can learn one tip, it would be appreciated.

Offline Steve

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The Urge to Merge..F6F drivers..
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2003, 01:04:45 PM »
Knowing full well that the La7 is going to HO you, Wait til he gets within 1.2 of you.  At that point lay a stream of  .50's at him until he is at 800 yards.  Once he is there, duck under his  now smoking plane.  If he's lucky, he's still alive and he will run for home.  If you missed completely, he will be at a loss of what to do next and run for home.


Spitfire:  Decide whether to accept his certain HO offer.  If you are both in one piece after the merge, loop/turn hard for another round of HO.  

My point:  Other than HO's and rams,  99% of the people in the MA have NO clue how to fight.
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Offline Magoo

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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2003, 01:22:38 PM »
You might as well go for the HO if it's an La7, cause he's just gonna do the same to you and then run like h*ll...

But seriously, if your "only" doing 250 knots, you'll need some speed to work with no matter what you do.

My first (and only) suggestion would be what I'd do wether I was at 250 knots or up to fighting speed:

 Attempt to get some separation just prior to the merge, typically by beginning a zero G dive at max con distance. If the opposing pilot follows suit by diving with you then he's got game and your probably going to die anyway. If he stays level or dives to meet you with an HO at the last minute, you've a fighting chance :D

If the bandit flies level (lucky you), however unlikely that would be, begin pulling your nose up to meet the nme at the merge with your plane in the vertical (see, your already gaining turn degrees on him). At this point, no matter what he does, you already have up to half a circle of advantage on him and he is most definately in a defensive posture (or AFK, in which case you kill the dweeb, thanks the AH gods, and move on). This move is frequently known as a Vertical Lead Turn.

If he dives to meet you in an HO at the last minute (a more likely scenario), barrel roll to avoid the HO shot and continue your loop (that you started at the merge when you pulled the stick back to go vertical) as best you can so your upside down and looking below you to acquire a visual of the bad guy (he dove to meet you, remember). Now there's 3 things the bandit will likely do after his merge:

Dive away to extend and either setup for another HO pass or run home to his mommy. If he runs, flip him a 1 finger salute and climb for some alt to use on the next guy. If he comes back for the HO just keep trying to Lead Turn him (and attempt to get some seraration prior to the merge) and hope he gets frustrated enough to fight - if all he knows is the HO then at least the fight will be something close to an even match. OK that's 2 things...

The 3rd thing he might do is pull his nose up to try and turn to meet you. This is good. He will likely be fast from his dive (if he dove from a very slow speed he will be able to turn into you better, in which case YOU should extend and re-acquire) when he tries to pull out of the dive he will be blacking out and burning his E in a very high G maneuver. he also will not be able turn very tightly, while you on the other hand will be above him and be able to simply (we hope) drop in on his tail with a substantial advantage in angles and begin the process of saddling up on him, or at worst getting into a rolling scissors where HE will be ahead of you and faster. Bad for him. ADVANTAGE MUCKMAW...

Now all of this is assuming your in similar performing aircraft. The nuances of the many types of matchups possible in AH are almost infinite. but with this one move you can often get off 1 good shot even when your Jug vs Spit. Obviously some gunnery skills and a little luck help out here.

Now go out there and do as I say, not as I do :D

Magoo
A bandit on your six is better than no bandit at all!

Offline Maniacal81st

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The Urge to Merge..F6F drivers..
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2003, 01:27:44 PM »
I'll bite.....


 The F6-F's climbing ability and E retention are grossly underestimated, use this to your advantage.  If I were in the F6-f, in the position you described, my first move would be to dive underneath the lala, getting my E up as high as possible.  Remember to never take your eyes off the bandit once you have engaged, this means starting now in this fight.  Timing is important here, BACK OFF OF THE THROTTLE as you pull back  to the point of almost BLACKOUT, I call it "peepholing".   Full throttle as you "round out" your turn.    Using your E, you roll over upright, if executed properly, you will be less than 1k behind him, coalt.    You are now in the driver's seat.  

  Important to watch the enemy, ALWAYS, he could counteract this move.  If I were him, as you came underneath me, I would go nose up, and hopefully "rope you." Mooohahahahahaha.  

  The La-7 has great climbing ability, as long as he has E.  At this altitude described (12k) make him lose his E.  Turn him a few times, USE YOUR FLAPS!!!!  Break him down, then you can outturn him to get on his 6.

Good luck, I hope this helps.

It is difficult for me to put into words my description.

Offline Furball

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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2003, 01:32:52 PM »
i couldnt be bothered to read the other replies, so heres mine, sorry if it has been said already.

about 3k or so range, start to dive (pretty steep so you get below his nose), the la7 looking for the HO will follow you, as the la7 comes close (about 300 away) pull up and loop onto his 6, if the la7 has gone for split S he will have too much E and go way below you and you will come out of the loop on his 6.  This will also give u alt advantage. If he runs away - you will still have more alt than him, keep it incase he decides to climb back up.

Hope this helps, sorry if i suck at explaining things.
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Offline Widewing

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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2003, 01:38:09 PM »
First off, what the heck are you doing flying at just 250 mph in proximity to enemy fighters? Keep your speed above 300 mph at all times when hostiles are in your area.

Second issue; most La-7 dorks will try to HO you on the merge. Your .50 cals greatly out-range the La-7's B-20s, so if he shows any inclination towards an HO, open fire at 1.4k and barrel roll out of the way or even better, bunt over (down) below his line of sight, rolling into your reverse BEFORE you actually pass.

(I sometimes like to bear off on the merge as if I'm trying to avoid the HO, and at the last moment break into him for a front quarter shot, usually catches them cold)

Expect the La-7 to go vertical, and if your timing is good, you'll get a decent shot from 600 to 800 yards as he goes up. Even if you score hits, roll inverted and dive away on a heading as far off his as possible. If you're a good shot, the fight is over anyway.

Should the La-7 try to maneuver with you, take your time and abuse him good and proper. La-7s are dog meat for a Hellcat in any turn fight.

Spitfires aren't much trouble as long as you stay above 250 mph. Below that, they have an increasing edge.

The big Hellcat can hold its own with any plane in the arena, providing you fight to your strengths, and not those of the enemy fighter.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2003, 01:45:08 PM »
Thanks, Guys.

Magoo, Maniacal, Furball..those all sound like great answers.

I'm going to try them tonight, and see how they work out.

Up till now, I've been going to horizontal seperation, which has not been working.

I understand how tough it is to put these maneauvers into words, so I really do appreciate the effort.

and thank you.

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2003, 01:48:00 PM »
Thanks, Wildewing..

Most of the merges involve the other guy taking a head shot on me which is why I posed this scenario.

I did not know the 50 cals had greater range than the cannons. I'll try that 1.4k shot, or the front quarter shot like you said.

Thanks again to all.

Offline DmdNexus

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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2003, 02:06:28 PM »
I would fart in his general direction and launch a salvo of aspersions.

I might dive to have 800 feet vertical separation between him and I.

At 600 yards and 350 mph (not too fast!) I would gently go vertical with a little roll and rudder.

If he goes for the HO - he's going nose down picking up speed as he does. HOs are so easy to avoid!!

Mistake green horns make is they blow their E by pulling back on the stick until they black out! Don't pull more than 2.5 Gs

Unload gently. Let gravity assist you over the top.

Let the Lala waste his E... pulling out of his dive and climbing and turning towards you....

Make a lazy man's turn at the top... shallow dive for maneuving E...

Yah he'll climb up towards you - so what... he might even think he can HO you like a slut.

This is the crucial moment...

Fart in his general direction, wiggle your wings, and show him your fancy french made panties... slowly prance above him as you circle around toward his behind, roll over and feed him 6 .50 cals into his canopy!

Lala's are nothing special.

Especially if they choose to HO... HOers are only begging to get in it in their 6 o'clock by giving up the lead turn advantage.

Offline Zanth

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The Urge to Merge..F6F drivers..
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2003, 02:32:09 PM »
Good stuff all in these pages - Rocketman's charts especially good.  Read the whole thing (dont forget to click on the Rocketman stuff too) and you will have some fun homework ahead.

http://www.netaces.org/genmerges/merges.html#title



also try these Real Audio format ACM movies

http://spandau.250x.com/acm/acmfilm.htm
« Last Edit: August 08, 2003, 02:38:42 PM by Zanth »

Offline Furball

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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2003, 02:37:20 PM »
zanth and nexus both sayd what i wantered to but much betterer :D
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Offline 214thCavalier

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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2003, 02:37:23 PM »
Get a super fast connection that way you will lose each and every HO attempt you make.
That is gauranteed to make you more creative on the merge.
Frankly i am amazed and disappointed to see all these people telling you as number 1 priority to actually set yourself up for a HO attempt !

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2003, 02:46:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Get a super fast connection that way you will lose each and every HO attempt you make.
That is gauranteed to make you more creative on the merge.
Frankly i am amazed and disappointed to see all these people telling you as number 1 priority to actually set yourself up for a HO attempt !


Not what I am sayign at all, you have to read the stuff.  There is no avoiding facing the enemy, you still avoid the "HO" but by golly if you get a clean deflection shot take it!  (You have to read what is in the links to understnad - I not gonna retype it for lazy people :) )

Offline 214thCavalier

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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2003, 02:52:01 PM »
Zanth that comment did not refer to your posts at all.
While i was typing you posted your comments, i was reffering to the posts above yours.