Author Topic: Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released  (Read 1521 times)

Offline SunKing

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3726
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2003, 01:59:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Batz
Most of the allied planes have contant speed props. You adjust rpm to specific setting and the prop adjusts to match that rpm setting.

In the 109 you have 2 settings auto and manual. In manual you adjust prop pitch (the angle of the prop blade) to meet a specific rpm setting. You need constant adjustment because as you dive and climb rpm will change.

In automatic I believe in called aero mechanical the prop adjust on its its own. You get far better performance by adjusting your prop manually once you learn how.

What you are trying to do is fing the best "powerband" (combination of throttle and prop setting) for the type of flying you are doing.  (combat, cruise combat etc..)

Radiator flaps are adjusted when your eng gets hot. On the 109/190s you can leave in on auto/closed most of the time.

The 190s have a "Komandogerate system" where by simply adjusting the throttle rpm and prop pitch are adjusted to keep you in the correct powerband. The Komandogerate system was a BMW speciality which combined engine control functions within one control unit. In reality, this was only a variation of the control systems used to manage all late piston engines. In most other applications, the control functions were managed by inter-linked subsystems which achieved the same functions with less complexity and greater functionality.

So constant speed prop you are setting constant rpm. No matter where you set the throttle rpms will remain constant and the prop pirch will automaticallly adjust. But sometimes in a dive or climb the prop may have adjusted as far as it can go so some throttle manipulation may be necessary.

Variable pitch props need constant adjustment to keep your rpm at optimum. So if you dive and leave pitch alone your rpms will climb and you will over rev your eng and it will be damaged.

109s are either full variable using manual or can be set aero mechanical (auto). In auto the reponse to adjustments are slower, in manual you can accellerate faster.

Variable pitch means you directly control the pitch angle of your prop.

Adjusting throttle and pitch in flight should be as follows.

To reduce power = lower throttle 1st then prop pitch

To increase power = increase prop pitch first then throttle

when increasing throttle after prop pitch watch your rpm guage so you dont over rev the eng.

You are looking to find the combination that keeps you in the correct "powerband".

Now your radiator flaps are manual if you are flying with full CEM. With the exception of the 109/190s. Most other planes you need to set them. Most lw planes climb best at 270k/mh but at this speed theres not enough air to keep the eng cool. You may not get the "engine overheated" msg. but you need to watch the temp guage and look to keep the eng as cool as possible within a given power band. Most of the time you will climb with radiators flaps at some open position. The 190 (radial) rarely over heats so you wont ever need to adjust the cowl flaps.

The 109 190s there no need for fuel mixture adjustments as both are direct fuel injected.

Magnetos should always be 1 & 2.

War emergency Power ie WEP has 100 different meanings.  Over boost (throttle 100%+) and normal boost (100% -). On some planes wep would be just pushing the trottle to an overboost position or above 100% throttle. These planes werent designed to be flown for long periods at high boost settings. This isnt because the may overheat and blow up but because of the required maintenance. There were strict records kept on the engs and planes. Running at over boost increased the frequency at which the eng would need to be overhauled. Overheating will cause eng damage but most pilots could easily read their guages and keep the eng from overheating to the point where the eng seized. Pyro posted a test of a pw-2800 that ran at overboost for days without failing. Of course the eng needed to be rebuilt afterward.

The lw planes with mw-50 need to be "primed". That is engage mw-50 at low rpms. Mw 50 will then activate when you push the throttle beyond 100%. Ideally to set mw-50 just do it while otr.

The a5 a8 a9 and 190d9 '44 variant has C3 injection and can be used like ahs "wep". The p47 has water injection that will engage when you push the throttle past 100% you can manually turn it off.

I wouldnt go as far to say lw planes are n00b planes because fly most  VVS planes theres not much adjustment needed. To get the most out of the 109s you really need to play with the manual settings. Or hell fly a p39 :p

Look on you IL2/FB disk 2 and you will see an advanced manual. Also theres several guides ourt there that explain this stuff a but better.



And you do all this while trying to get a gun solution? wow

Do you have these commands mapped to your stick/throttle? I can't imagine fighting and looking down to the keyboard to constantly adjust your plane.

Offline Creamo

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5976
      • http://www.fatchicksinpartyhats.com
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2003, 02:18:01 PM »
Don't get discouraged Sunking, neither can DMF and alot of AH "SA Aces" that fly combat trim auto-pilot flight crutches in one of the easiest quake massive online games ever.

And of course you map them to your stick. No need to look down then.

Offline Batz

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3470
      • http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/o/wotans/4JG53/
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2003, 02:42:52 PM »
I have a ch hotas, everything is mapped and I have empty buttons.

You can fly just like ah with everything in auto but like I said to get the most out of atleast the 109s you need to go manual. In the 109s you can over rev the eng so you will reduce rpm then throttle when in a dive then as you climb  back up you increase throttle then rpm. In level flight you just make fine adjustments to keep desired rpm settings.

Trim is another thing you need to keep on top of it as you increase/decrease speed or you wont be able to steady a shot without a lot of oscillation.

Except for the early VVS stuff all you need to do is fly full rpm and adjust rad flaps and throttle to prevent over heating. You may need to adjust mixture depending on alt  and/or shift your supercharger. Not much to them.

In ah I flew the 190 mostly but I got hooked on the 109g6 and thats what I fly over there. Guys who fly the vvs planes can help you with them.

get trackIR and SA is a lot easier.

Offline SunKing

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3726
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2003, 02:58:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Batz
I have a ch hotas, everything is mapped and I have empty buttons.

You can fly just like ah with everything in auto but like I said to get the most out of atleast the 109s you need to go manual. In the 109s you can over rev the eng so you will reduce rpm then throttle when in a dive then as you climb  back up you increase throttle then rpm. In level flight you just make fine adjustments to keep desired rpm settings.

Trim is another thing you need to keep on top of it as you increase/decrease speed or you wont be able to steady a shot without a lot of oscillation.

Except for the early VVS stuff all you need to do is fly full rpm and adjust rad flaps and throttle to prevent over heating. You may need to adjust mixture depending on alt  and/or shift your supercharger. Not much to them.

In ah I flew the 190 mostly but I got hooked on the 109g6 and thats what I fly over there. Guys who fly the vvs planes can help you with them.

get trackIR and SA is a lot easier.


If you have the time could you please post a trk of one of your dogfights. I'd like to see all thats invovled with managing your 109.

Offline _Schadenfreude_

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2003, 03:05:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by firbal
Has anyone heard of the lastest add on? I saw it at EB a couple of weeks ago. Call, "Operation Barbarosa" (spelling). Been triing to get it. The stores have it listed but they haven't recieved it. Tried 3 times at Game Spot here. They say it's being deliverd on their computer. But when I go back, still nothing. I have not heard anything on the web sights that this is coming out. Thinking it's a 3rd party add on.


I've got it - not bad -  still vs ai but better than the boxed campaign in my opinion

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4287
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2003, 03:09:09 PM »
It really isn't as hard as it appears to be, the only time you really adjust the prop pitch and throttle settings is during cruising. You can attain higher cruise speeds with lower throttle and slightly lower prop pitch, than you can with full prop pitch and full throttle.

Flaps I leave at full open (5 presses of the radiator button) on planes that have them. Its difficult to tell if the engine is overheating on several VVS planes because I disabled HUD messages, so I just play it safe. The VVS planes are pretty much (spare the MiG) turners, and for the most part people flying LW aircraft are impatient and will attempt to turn or keep the fight within your grasps. The more experiened LW pilots will actually dictate the fight entirely, so all you can do is manuever away from their guns and hope for a fleeting shot at them. The MiG is the only aircraft the VVS has thats good at high alts, but its still a difficult plane to master. The AM-38 engined MiG is only good at low alts - which is the same engine that powers the Il2.

Mixture, I leave at full until around 2000 meters, then bring it back to lean. At around 4000 meters if you still have full mixture, your plane will trail dark red stuff... smaller than smoke, about the size of the airshow smoke that comes off the wingtips.

Supercharger, most fights online (unless you take the fight up high yourself) occur below 2000meters. For most VVS planes, the supercharger you should kick in around 2500 to 3500meters.. theres an advanced PDF manual on the 2nd CD which tells the altitudes for each plane's supercharger. Keep in mind though, almost all VVS planes optimum altitudes are 500 - 2500 meters... at around 4000meters they should begin to suck.

I have all this stuff programed into my joystick, prop pitch on a rotary, mixture and supercharger stages to the up/down of a hat. Radiator flaps to another button.

I play on early 1943 servers and earlier, after that it all comes down to the person with the first shot wins due to the size and number of the weapons.

Its a whole other ballgame trying to dogfight and adjusting engine settings as you go through the atmosphere.

One of the coolest things, although not related to engine management, thats happened to me since the new patch: Was flying on 609IAP_Recon's server (great early war server with great difficulty settings) and had just taken off from a contested field in the I16 Tip24. I raise my gear, turn around and see several 109s attacking various VVS planes... several of them smoking/on fire with a lot of smoke coming from the ground (looked like an actual battlefield due to the prolonged smoke/fire). A 109 turns in front of me, give him a good burst - he falls out of the sky.

Another 109 zooms down on my, I kick the rudder and do the wierdest manuever ever. Don't know how to describe it, but I didn't gain much ground, I did get onto the 109's 6 though and shot him out of the sky.

I look around, nothing, level out and check my plane. Just then I hear gunfire from behind me, I break after taking a few hits and put myself into a flat spin. After 2 revolutions, I recover - but since the I16's engine will cut out with sustained negative Gs, I have no power and am at only 400 meters and dropping quickly. New patch allows engines to be restarted in air after they die to negative Gs. First time I try to start the engine, it sputters and coughs then dies. Now I'm at 200 meters, and have to put out one notch of flaps to avoid augering into a forest. Second try just as my flaps come out, and the engine comes back to life. I just barely avoid the forest and go back to base to land.

It was one of the coolest things ever, I guess because it just never happened like that in FB V1.0 or any other game.
-SW

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18206
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2003, 03:32:20 PM »
can you trim the 109 now?

didnt only the russian planes trim or am I thinking of IL2?
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Batz

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3470
      • http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/o/wotans/4JG53/
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2003, 04:03:20 PM »
Yeah I disable hub msg too. As a matter of fact theres no words on my screen at all. Except in the online wars where they use the speed bar to allow the VVS to nav. I gather on most vvs planes you cant read much of the cockpit.

On the 109s the temp guage is easy to see. Besides you can just leave it in auto/closed.

Sunking pop me an email I send ya a track. Its not that difficult. My email is in my sig.

I fly against Recon in Forgotten wars.

Oh I fly 109s btw the 190s Komandogerate works fine and all you need is throttle adjustments.

Offline Batz

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3470
      • http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/o/wotans/4JG53/
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2003, 04:03:54 PM »
109s have elevator trim.

Offline Bluedog

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 915
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2003, 08:38:06 PM »
Thanks for the info guys.

Regarding mixture changing at altitude.....shouldn't the alt at which you need to change mixture be  the same for all planes?
I mean, air is air, and fuel is fuel, so wouldn't it be a constant across the board for all types?
A quick glance through the CD advanced manual seems to reckon otherwise. (BTW thanks Batz, never knew that was there :) )

I guess I understand that octane levels, and quality of fuels differ, but I dont understand why the alt-at-which-you-lean back-the-mixture, and/or change blower speeds (is there a correct term?) varies between planes.

I would ask over on the FB forum, but they are a bunch of tools apparently and you have to sift through the neck deep BS to get any good info.

Thanks again for your help.

Offline Nath[BDP]

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1267
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2003, 07:39:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Creamo
Don't get discouraged Sunking, neither can DMF and alot of AH "SA Aces" that fly combat trim auto-pilot flight crutches in one of the easiest quake massive online games ever.


Creamho,

I think most here know that the differences in workload between using CT and regular trim is small.  Messing with trim tabs in combat is unrealistic.  I don't use CT (although I used to when I didn't have  HOTAS--but only to reset everything to neutral after a fight).  There's virtually no difference or gain either way and I only trim manually before or after a fight--and rarely in.
++Blue Knights++
vocalist of the year


Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4287
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2003, 04:59:48 PM »
The altitudes at which mixture is adjusted is all the same, only VVS planes need to be adjusted... above ~3700meters, full rich mixture leaves a dark trail behind your plane. Just reduce it to lean, and it'll go away.

I haven't noticed any engine degradation from running a full rich mixture at high alts, but at any alts if you decrease the mixture too much - your engine dies.

As for the superchargers (blowers), each one is built different and each engine is designed to operate within a specific atmospheric threshold... therefore some engines may run a lower supercharger speed at higher alts, while another engine requires the supercharger to step up a stage at the same alts. The difference between changing supercharger stages in almost all planes that require it manually varies by only a couple hundred meters I believe.
-SW

Offline LLv34_Snefens

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 728
      • Lentolaivue 34
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2003, 05:17:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Creamo
Oleg has a RTS coming out, called WWII RTS, go figure. Maybe that's what your thinking of?


Actually I don't think Oleg is involved (much) in this. It's the "1C Company" fraction of "1C:Maddox games" that are developing this title, which btw has been dubbed Battlefield Command (WWII RTS was just a working title). Also it's Codemasters that are the publishers for this, not Ubisoft.

Homepage of BC here.
It's using a modified IL-2 engine from what I understand. Also the developers are starting to give weekly development updates. Looks good, but so does most games nowadays.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2003, 05:19:22 PM by LLv34_Snefens »
Snefens, Lentolaivue 34.
Location: Aarhus, Denmark

"Luck beats skill anytime"

Offline Bluedog

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 915
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2003, 09:44:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
The altitudes at which mixture is adjusted is all the same, only VVS planes need to be adjusted... above ~3700meters, full rich mixture leaves a dark trail behind your plane. Just reduce it to lean, and it'll go away.

I haven't noticed any engine degradation from running a full rich mixture at high alts, but at any alts if you decrease the mixture too much - your engine dies.

As for the superchargers (blowers), each one is built different and each engine is designed to operate within a specific atmospheric threshold... therefore some engines may run a lower supercharger speed at higher alts, while another engine requires the supercharger to step up a stage at the same alts. The difference between changing supercharger stages in almost all planes that require it manually varies by only a couple hundred meters I believe.
-SW


So I can run all of them at 120% until up to 3700, then lean 'em back, but even then only to 80% ?
Seems to lose the black smoke and run a lot better when dropped back to 80% at high alt, but a leaner mixture than 80% seems to have little effect.

Is there any time that a leaner than 80% mixture should be used/ or is that just for real long range cruise settings?.

Allso, will running at 120% and setting the supercharger to second stage at low level seriously damage the engine? Hurricane seems to be able to handle that setup no worries.

Offline Bluedog

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 915
Forgotten Battles v1.1b patch released
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2003, 09:56:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
try this

http://www32.brinkster.com/silvertriggers/CEM_IL2_FB.htm


Allright!! now we're talkin' !  

Thanks Schade, exactly what I needed........an idiots guide :)