Author Topic: Grave doubts about the success of AH2 TOD (Read 3614 times)

DmdNexus · « **Reply #30 on:** August 19, 2003, 12:20:31 PM »

I just hope they make the sheep scream when I shoot them.
That to me gives the game realism and adds to my pleasure in playing this game.

I guess I also wouldn't mind a new flight model and graphics.

But I really do want the sheep to scream in terror... not just say "Baaaa" like they are grazing peacefullly under white cotton clouds.

When sheep were shot in AW their sheep said "Baa". My blood lust was left unsatisfied. And it didn't matter how many sheep I shot, the "Baa" sound left me flat and wanting. it did not please me to kill sheep in AW. And so that AW eventually was no longer successful.

I'm not sure how to spell a sheep scream... especially one screaming in terror.

I don't think it's "eeek"... I hope HT can imagine what I'm talking about.

Perhap... "baaaweek" something like that.

I haven't seen AH2 TOD, so I have no idea what's in it, or whether it's a good game or not, and I don't know any of the developers personally, or impersonally, but if they like sheep like I do and if they add the sheep terroried screams, I know TOD will be fun to play.

At least it will be for me.

Baaaaa to all my friends.

Toad · « **Reply #31 on:** August 19, 2003, 01:59:30 PM »

Yeah, I'm glad to see it too, Beet1e. Glad you're catching up.

Now, once you finally accept that the changes towards more, better and deeper strat are what turned the MA on to the new heading where avoiding the fight is more a "successful" strategy for winning the war, you'll be fully caught up.

beet1e · « **Reply #32 on:** August 19, 2003, 02:10:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, I'm glad to see it too, Beet1e. Glad you're catching up.

Now, once you finally accept that the changes towards more, better and deeper strat are what turned the MA on to the new heading where avoiding the fight is more a "successful" strategy for winning the war, you'll be fully caught up.

So... you're blaming the current steamroller-horde mentality on the current strat?

lazs2 · « **Reply #33 on:** August 19, 2003, 02:34:23 PM »

You just now figuring that out beetle? Of course the current suicide porking and steamrollering have to do with the current strat... what else could it possibly be?
lazs

Furious · « **Reply #34 on:** August 19, 2003, 02:59:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
... what else could it possibly be?

Laziness.

It is difficult to learn BFM's to say nothing of ACM's. It takes effort and patience. It requires a lot of practice and sometimes study.

In this "game", the easiest things to do are pork and auger. It's quick and offers tangible results with little to no effort.

Toad · « **Reply #35 on:** August 19, 2003, 03:43:53 PM »

....and, when you reward "pork and auger" and reward horde/hive/steamroller tactics with the "we won the war/perks for reset", will you get more or less of the same?

It's not easy to strike a balance but when the focus shifts away from encouraging the fight to inhibiting the ability to fight back, there's always going to be problems in a "combat" game.

Like it or not, the current focus of AH strategy is inhibiting the ability to fight back, not on the fight itself.

Just my .02. Wish I had a solution that would make everyone happy but I'm too much of a realist to even try for one.

Mini D · « **Reply #36 on:** August 19, 2003, 03:52:18 PM »

Its not inhibiting the ability to fight back that's the problem... it's that there's not much point to defense. There hasn't been for some time. There's not much of a score reward for it and there's not much of a sense of accomplishment since you know the guy you just shot down is only going to be back in 7 minutes. It's the curse of the MA. As a result, all you get are multiple waves of offense meeting little to no defense. It doesn't boil down to how well you defend, rather how quickly you capture.

MiniD

Furious · « **Reply #37 on:** August 19, 2003, 04:11:09 PM »

In my post I said that P&A offers tangible results with little effort and I should have also added that there is no penalty.

Now, bear in mind there never was any real penalty other than this:

SYSTEM: Hblair shot down Furious 3.

...or however that message went. I hated that. It was personal then. I wanted to do everything I could to kill AND survive.

As discussed in another thread, I think shame could be a carrot. I have no problem with jabo. I hate the suicide pork crap though.

SYSTEM: StrtPrkr augered into a fuel bunker.

Couple of those would go along way, IMO.

beet1e · « **Reply #38 on:** August 19, 2003, 04:34:06 PM »

Hasn't it always been possible to destroy fuel bunkers in AH? (I don't recall the destruction of fuel bunkers being added as a new gameplay feature in the time I've been here since Nov.2001.) If not, then it's not the current strat that is causing suicide fuel porking as that strat feature has been there for a long time.

What has changed is the number of players now online - especially as a result of the demise of AW, and the melting away of WB. I think a lot of guys have realised how easy it is to take down a field with overwhelming numerical supremacy, and make it even easier by porking the fuel. I don't know what AW was like, but I'm hearing that such suicide tactics may have been imported from there.

I agree with MiniD about the 7 minutes. And the reason it is only 7 minutes is because the fields are too close together. One of the reasons I like the pizza map is because these P&A suicide missions are impractical on AK-Pizza with more fields that are more widely spaced.

Creamo · « **Reply #39 on:** August 19, 2003, 05:01:52 PM »

Dear Retards,

AH gameplay is about the most meaningless ***** to consume yourselves about. That's why your tards.

(I should charge for this advice)

Batz · « **Reply #40 on:** August 19, 2003, 05:02:31 PM »

Quote

Hasn't it always been possible to destroy fuel bunkers in AH? (I don't recall the destruction of fuel bunkers being added as a new gameplay feature in the time I've been here since Nov.2001.) If not, then it's not the current strat that is causing suicide fuel porking as that strat feature has been there for a long time.

You could always pork the fuel. What's changed is before why would you want to? It was about the fight. Kill me and I'll come back looking for you. There was always field capture and resets etc.

This all began after there was a perk reward offered for resets. The gave a whole new meaning to resets. It meant winning something. Then came over a whole new type of player where the "war winning" got taken to a whole new level.

The fight became secondary to the "war". Some folks just want to pop in for an hour or so and fight. They dont care about wars or strat or any of that sillyness. When 1 or 2 guys can impact the fun of 50+ guys and it then takes 10 guys 20 min in c47s to repair want 1 suicide player has done then the balance has shifted to far.

Fluffers used to have a similiar impact. laser bombing of 2 or 3 buildings shut down an entire nights fun. HT changed the layout of the fields and changed the bombing system.

No one wants to waste their time flying about over a field being bored for an hour waiting for some suicide porker to happen by.

it simple really you can just reduce the imapct that 1 guy has over everyone else by adding more fule tanks to the fileds. Spreading umm out so it will take more then 1 guy to kill most or all of them. Increase their hardness, reduce their downtime and increase the effect of player resupplies. Finally on the 512 x 512 maps make the fuel mod 1.

All this can be done now. It would take some time to add fuel tanks but not much.

Ultimately, it would be good to see the reset trigger shifted away from a pure land grab to something else like say country resources/production. Where their are cities and factories that are large and need a constant pounding by bombers to destroy to a level that triggers a reset. The the strat guys could do that and the fighters can go at with out fear that some lonely war winner may decide you are having to much fun and pork your fuel.

but none of this has piss to do with AH2:ToD. There will be no war winning there.

Toad · « **Reply #41 on:** August 19, 2003, 05:31:38 PM »

Pretty good overall assessment Batz.

As for the Supreme No-Content Commentator, AH gameplay is generally supposed to be fun. That's sort of the point of playing games; even you must realize this by now. Therefore generates comments by gameplayers, particularly when they are no longer having fun. But I'm not surprised you haven't realized THAT yet.

Yes, you should charge. I'm sure you'll get exactly what it's worth. Don't forget to tell us all when enough cash comes in to actually buy you a cup of coffee. I'm sure it'll be a red letter day. For my great grandchildren.

Steve · « **Reply #42 on:** August 19, 2003, 05:36:03 PM »

Hi, my name is Steve, and I'm inexorably turning into a furballaholic.

beet1e · « **Reply #43 on:** August 19, 2003, 06:16:38 PM »

Batz - thanks for that clarification. As Mr. Toad has pointed out in the past, I am a relative newbie to AH, so I don't know about some of these changes or why they were made. I was particularly interested in the early part of your explanation.

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You could always pork the fuel. What's changed is before why would you want to? It was about the fight. Kill me and I'll come back looking for you. There was always field capture and resets etc.

This all began after there was a perk reward offered for resets. The gave a whole new meaning to resets. It meant winning something. Then came over a whole new type of player where the "war winning" got taken to a whole new level.

You could always pork the fuel - that's what I wanted confirmed. So the current wave of fuel porkage is not due to a recently added game/strat feature, but to the antics of the players. If you're saying that the fuel porkage/win the reset mentality is driven by the perk award system, I would prefer to see that area tackled to stem fuel porkage, rather than by adjusting object "hardness".

Still, it amazes me that even The Kidz in this game would resort to such extreme measures just to win a few perks. The WB system was good - you got triple points for landing kills. It cut out much of the suicide crap, but of course k/t would have to suffer. Take your pick.

Hiya, Creamo. Have you tried Finlandia with added lime flavouring? Not bad. But perhaps not as exotic as the raspberry flavoured Stolichnaya.

Shiva · « **Reply #44 on:** August 19, 2003, 07:13:28 PM »

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Originally posted by Grimm
Have I Mentioned AH:TOD is not intended to Fix the MA, draw players out of the MA or effect MA Gameplay at all?

As I understand it, Its hoped to draw a new type of customer that is looking for something between a boxed game, and what we have now.

You miss the fact that it will draw players out of the MA, for exactly the reason you cite -- the people who want more than the eternal "99 enemy bases to take, 99 enemy bases / Pork one down, the troops enter town / 98 enemy bases to take" situation are going to move to AH2:TOD, leaving the people who just want to rain on people's parade -- the 'pork-n-auger dweebs' -- and Lasz and his fellow SpitQuake (aka StangQuake, HogQuake, JugQuake, et al.) players.

How many of the current MA players it's going to pull I can't say; I don't even pretend to know the motivations of anyone but myself. But it will draw people out of the MA.