Author Topic: an another usefull patch (Read 1421 times)

Nifty · « **Reply #75 on:** November 30, 2001, 09:55:00 AM »

Isn't it time for someone to quit again?

R4M · « **Reply #76 on:** November 30, 2001, 09:58:00 AM »

Pse nifty. It's been a long time ago since I learned not to take AH so seriously as to really mess into my life and get me angry away from my computer. That was one of the reasons I left the times I did.

Now I still get pissed now and then, and I'd really like to have any reason to fly a Fw190F8 instead a Fw190A8 for jabo...But I dont go out with a couple of friends with an angry expression in my face because the hispanos are megaturbolasers or because the buffs are lazer ackstars (t-i-ch

).

It may sound funny, but sad as it is there was a time that it happened just that way. It took me almost 1 year of AH to learn not to take it this seriously. As I said, sometimes, now and then, I see things that really get me pissed -like this thing-. But usually when I have a well and clear point only (as this time, of course!

).

But now when I leave the computer,I go out and take some laugh with my friends and live my life. Rarely, if ever, I recall anything from AH when I'm out of home. This game is now a now part of my daily entertainment. Not of my daily life,but the same couldn't be said one year ago. In fact, prolly 1 year ago I'd have started yet another thread with a topic like "P47vsFw190F8 loadout". Sad isnt it?

. I'm glad I learned to get over that

Maybe I was addicted, maybe not. But If I wasn't, I was in the verge of being. I did some shameful shows of "I QUIT" (well I did some shameful shows of many other things too, I still recall those threads with renfield kissing and huggin each other by a fediddlein HO, LOL), but I give those shows as good employed if I now I am not that stupid anymore

Now, as I said, this is just a black spot on an otherwise bright game. Right now the (little) time I'm flying I'm having a quite good and fun time.

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

Nifty · « **Reply #77 on:** November 30, 2001, 10:10:00 AM »

hehe, good to hear.

Tell ya what. Gather all the evidence you have and make a nice document about it. Include various pictures of the F8 with the loadouts and links to your sources. No "whining" in the document, just a completely objective basis for your argument. Present that to the board and HTC. If it doesn't get addressed in an update or two, I'll whine right along with you.

Kieran · « **Reply #78 on:** November 30, 2001, 10:12:00 AM »

Not that this will do any good, but...

yah. Add more drop tanks for the P47. We all know they lacked lots of ordnance options and was an urgent thing wich demanded instant fix, true? .

Who first drew the comparison to LW aircraft?

A plane can take an unrealistic load and instead of fixing that, they even ADD more options to it. At the same time another plane lacks some of its historical options, and they do nothing in that regard.

I dunno, you seem to be discussing inaccurate loadout options to me. Maybe I don't read English that well.

Of course I'm pissed because the F8 has been repeatedly ignored for months while the P47 has got its DTs almost instantly.

Doesn't this suggest a bias to you?

The A&V forum is full of threads discussing this matter. Pyro has ---NEVER--- got into one of them to say why doesn't the F8 have that option (or the A5, for that matter).

As does this?

I'd be the first to say I don't want inaccurate loadouts on any plane. Notice I can do this without bringing any other country or aircraft into it? As SOB alluded, it isn't your message but your delivery that gets you every time.

-ammo- · « **Reply #79 on:** November 30, 2001, 10:26:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by R4M:

4- DOnt try to distract attention with funny comments . What matters here is that no P47D30 could carry 10 HVARs and 2000lbs of underwing bomgs; and the overload condition for the MGs was not used when the Jugs were in Jabo role.

You have a reference for that? I have severeral book and I dont see anything of what you have mentioned.

For all those that actually believe RAM ( bad mistake believing RAM following RAM, truth and his name are definately NOT synonymous), You would be wise to wait for some evidence first.

The community ges an awesome update that shows how much work the HTC team have put into this game and RAM posts a whine about the FW190F8 didnt get what it needs. He then goes onto say that its not a LW vs allies thing for him...<spit on my monoito>. He also would have you think he has the best wishes of others at heart...<choke, cough, cleans off the monitior again>.

Here is a little humor for you RAM, You are a numb skull.

SFRT - Frenchy · « **Reply #80 on:** November 30, 2001, 10:35:00 AM »

The P47 doesn't out-accelerate the german planes in the initial dives in AH Ram. She does however has an outstanding high speed control.
That's a major FM question mark for me, but hey, you don't see me squeaking about it. I'm using the plane the best I can so far, maybe 1 day the FM will change.
As you said, don't get me wrong, whatever you want on the FW, I don't care. Have a twin 50mm pod AND 2 4,000lbs bombs if you want

What I didn't appreciated is your lack of education to come storming into this thread, squeak at HTC and keep the same behavior for "80 posts". Looks like you take pride/pleasure in confrontation, whatever floats your boat.
You think that "funny comments" are a defensive behavior? I was just trying to be nice. Contrary to you, I'm not confronting and trying to be a smart ass. I respect any ideas and thoughts, as long as they are brought with consideration toward HTC staff and our comunauty.

ra · « **Reply #81 on:** November 30, 2001, 11:21:00 AM »

<<<SO...all 190F8/U1s were fitted with wing ETC503 racks.>>>

R4M,

If I can convince you that the FW 190F8/U1 was a two seat trainer, not a Jabo, would that change your stance on this issue? Probably not so I won't bother, but your facts are just plain wrong.

I fly the 190 too and I would love 3x250kg bombs, but I don't think that configuration ever saw combat.

ra

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #82 on:** November 30, 2001, 01:57:00 PM »

Ra, the two seat FW190 trainers were the FW190S series, S for Schulflugzeug.

R4M · « **Reply #83 on:** November 30, 2001, 02:23:00 PM »

Kieren, you have mistaken several of the parts of my message. But I see no good in explaining them again, so we'll leave at that to not keeping an unfruitful discussion up.

Ammo: I dont know wich books you have. All I know is that ALL and EVERY reference I've read regarding HVAR rockets in late D-series say that it was impossible to load the 10 rockets and the wing bombs at the same time.

And read this: http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47.htm

I will let the personal remarks aside as I simply think is not worth getting into the mud

RA, the Fw190F8/U1 was a long range jagdbomber designed to be the sucessor of the G series. There may be a mix of denominations (a similar thing happens with teh 109G6/R2, for instance, wich depending on the source is a reconaissance version or a fighter bomber version -and both sources would be right). But in any reliable source about Fw190s, the F8/U1 is listed as a long range jabo.

The Fw190 two seat trainers were the Fw190S series. I'm positive about that. Maybe there was a F8/U1 modified for two seats, or even there was a denomination for a prototype. But the OFFICIAL and OPERATIONAL F8/U1 was fitted with ETC503 wing racks.

Frenchy; I posted some 50 posts avobe this one a link to a thread in the Aircraft forum to keep the discussion about the F8. The answers were posted HERE, not there.

So dont blame me on hijacking. I've posted where the answers were posted

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #84 on:** November 30, 2001, 02:26:00 PM »

RA, I tried that one. RAM claims the U1 is something else.

However in my books it lists the Fw-190F8/U1 as a two seat trainer- of which none were built.

The U2 and U3 were modified to carry torpedo bombs.

It lists later models as having the bombs that RAM claims the U1 carried. I think it was U8 or maybe even U11.
-SW

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

R4M · « **Reply #85 on:** November 30, 2001, 02:50:00 PM »

SW, maybe you think you know more than Joe Baughter?

taken from http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/fw190.html#RTFToC16

Quote

Fw 190F-8/U1 - long range fighter-bomber (provided as replacement for the Fw 190G-8 withdrawn from production). The plane had underwing pylons installed from the Bf 110 V.Mitt-Schloss (Verkleidetes Messerschmitt Schloss) for mounting two 300 liter fuel tanks and additional fuel pumps inside the wings. Some planes had ETC 503 bomb racks in place of the pylons that gave the capability of carrying two additional 250 kg bombs (in this case the fuel tank was mounted under the fuselage) on ETC 501 racks. It was possible was to mount bombs on all points (2x250 kg and 1x500 kg), this reduced range but made the Fw 190 a dangerous plane carrying 1000 kg of bombs.

More Fw190s with underwing racks able to take 250Kg bombs or DTs:

Quote

Fw 190F-8/U4 - night fighter-bomber powered by a BMW 801 TS engine with exhaust flames dampers. Standard equipment was: PKS 12 autopilot device, FuG 101 radio altimeter, TSA 2A sight system and other devices to aid night navigation and flight. Armament consisted of aerial torpedoes and bombs that could be carried on two underwing ETC 503 bomb racks. Other armament was reduced to two MG 151/20 E cannons in wings. Probably only one plane built (W.Nr. 586596). Admittedly, NSGr 20 used numerous Fw 190F-8 with flame dumpers and underwing mounted bomb racks but it was not a F-8/U4 but rather field adapted, standard G-8 or F-8/U1 planes.

Quote

Fw 190A-5/U3 - fighter-bomber with the ETC 501 bomb rack and without MG FF cannons. After a change of designation this was serially produced as Fw 190F-2. There was also a desert variant with dust filters designated as A-5/U3/tp (F-2tp).

I could go on quoting but almost all 109Gs had it and lots of early F versions had it too.

The point is that the F8/U1 WAS a long range jabo with ability to take DTs or 250kg bombs if they were needed.

R4M · « **Reply #86 on:** November 30, 2001, 02:52:00 PM »

SW, maybe you think you know more than Joe Baughter?

taken from http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/fw190.html#RTFToC16

Quote

Fw 190F-8/U1 - long range fighter-bomber (provided as replacement for the Fw 190G-8 withdrawn from production). The plane had underwing pylons installed from the Bf 110 V.Mitt-Schloss (Verkleidetes Messerschmitt Schloss) for mounting two 300 liter fuel tanks and additional fuel pumps inside the wings. Some planes had ETC 503 bomb racks in place of the pylons that gave the capability of carrying two additional 250 kg bombs (in this case the fuel tank was mounted under the fuselage) on ETC 501 racks. It was possible was to mount bombs on all points (2x250 kg and 1x500 kg), this reduced range but made the Fw 190 a dangerous plane carrying 1000 kg of bombs.

More Fw190s with underwing racks able to take 250Kg bombs or DTs:

Quote

Fw 190F-8/U4 - night fighter-bomber powered by a BMW 801 TS engine with exhaust flames dampers. Standard equipment was: PKS 12 autopilot device, FuG 101 radio altimeter, TSA 2A sight system and other devices to aid night navigation and flight. Armament consisted of aerial torpedoes and bombs that could be carried on two underwing ETC 503 bomb racks. Other armament was reduced to two MG 151/20 E cannons in wings. Probably only one plane built (W.Nr. 586596). Admittedly, NSGr 20 used numerous Fw 190F-8 with flame dumpers and underwing mounted bomb racks but it was not a F-8/U4 but rather field adapted, standard G-8 or F-8/U1 planes.

Ohhhhhh??? "Standard G-8 or F8/U1?"...
strange

Quote

Fw 190A-5/U3 - fighter-bomber with the ETC 501 bomb rack and without MG FF cannons. After a change of designation this was serially produced as Fw 190F-2. There was also a desert variant with dust filters designated as A-5/U3/tp (F-2tp).

I could go on quoting but almost all 109Gs had it and lots of early F versions had it too.

The point is that the F8/U1 WAS a long range jabo with ability to take DTs or 250kg bombs if they were needed.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #87 on:** November 30, 2001, 02:56:00 PM »

So you are using one source, while I got mine from multiple?

No, I don't think I know more than Joe Baughter- I've never heard of him before.

Point still stands, I got my information from more than one source.
-SW

Creamo · « **Reply #88 on:** November 30, 2001, 03:00:00 PM »

The Great Book of WWII Airplanes pg. 509 says...

"The F8 was proposed for 3 diffrent models of factory installed conversions. The first, the Fw 190F-8/U1. was similiar in design to the basic Fw 190/A-8/U1 in that it was a 2 seat training aircraft; however, it was never built."

It details all the options for the 190F8 but I really don't know what is being questioned here so I can't tell you the info. Regardless, it looked like very few at all had any of the mods.

--

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]

R4M · « **Reply #89 on:** November 30, 2001, 03:03:00 PM »

Me neither. all the books I have wich list the Umrust-Bausatze of the Fw190F8 list the U1 as a long range jabo. I just put a link where it is clearly explained in a thorough way.

Now, go to an online translator and translate this:

Fw 190 F-8/F-17

Lo Fw 190F-8, sviluppato su base A-8, é la sottoversione della seria F costruita nel maggior numero di esemplari (tra F-8 e F-9 ne furono prodotti circa 385). Come per l'A-8, le due MG 17 sul motore erano state sostituite da due MG 131 da 13mm. Alle radici alari rimanevano i due MG 151 da 20mm. Dal gennaio del 1945 vennero adottati i piloni ETC 71 in luogo degli ETC 50.

Anche per il Fw 190A-4 vennero prodotti kit di conversione 'Umrüst-Bausätze' :

L'F-8/U1 da attacco a lungo raggio con due serbatoi supplementari da 300 litri o due bombe SC250 sotto piloni alari ETC 503.
L'F-8/U2 silurante a lungo raggio, armato con un siluro BT 200, 400 o 700 sotto un pilone ETC 501 o ETC 502 in fusoliera e due serbatoi supplementari alari da 300 litri sotto piloni ETC 503. Servì da base per gli Fw 190F-8/R16.
L'F-8/U3 silurante, armato con siluri BT 1000, 1400 e 1850. Servì da base per gli Fw 190F-8/R15.
L'F-8/U4 da attacco a lungo raggio notturno, simile all'F-8/R13.
L'F-8/U5 silurante.

its in italian

http://digilander.iol.it/novotny/versioni14.htm

(great page of the Fw190, just wish they did one in english

)

Oh...and just to give you a little heads up about rockets in the Fw190F8:
http://www.raf303.org/funked/panzerblitz1.jpg
http://www.raf303.org/funked/panzerblitz2.jpg

(with funked's permission, of course)

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]