Author Topic: school vouchers  (Read 4159 times)

Offline wrag

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school vouchers
« Reply #210 on: September 15, 2003, 06:17:57 AM »
Where the G.I. Bill is concerned a vet can run into some problems.  Not all schools are approved.  There are some issues but they tend to be addressed by G.I./Veterans organizations more then the Fed Gov.
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Kieran

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school vouchers
« Reply #211 on: September 15, 2003, 07:19:34 AM »
Wrag-

It will become an issue because parents, particularly parents of disabled kids, will be able to successfully argue exclusion of their children is unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment. It has already happened in public schools, it will happen in private schools too if voucher money is used by a private school. The angle is the disabled students would be disallowed an educational opportunity offered to regular ed students. Bet your bottom dollar on it. And when THAT happens, many more mandates will immediately follow to ensure they are handled properly, their needs are met, etc.

The links I posted upthread cite private schools that have stated they have no intention to serve special ed students. We'll see, but about their only choice is to opt out of the voucher program at that point.

Yes, states will decide for themselves, but most states already have rules for public schools that are pretty much in line with one another, right? What are the odds the states will do the same to private schools once they receive state money? Pretty good, I'd say.

Offline lazs2

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school vouchers
« Reply #212 on: September 15, 2003, 08:41:36 AM »
Youi can't prove that the government will mandate all these programs once they realize how badly they have screwed up... so badly that parents will have effectively given them a vote of no confidence by rejecting their idea of schooling (public schools).. it would be political suicide to change private schools.  At least at first.

Your arguement that there is a possibility that if we dump the useless public school system that maybe... just maybe.. the private schools will end up as bad?   not good enough... they certainly won't end up with 67% administration.   I doubt that they will close for 6 months of the year and leave the facility and teachers fallow.   I think government would be hard pressed to explain why they needed some of the worse programs mandated to private schools that were doing great before.
lazs

Offline Kieran

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school vouchers
« Reply #213 on: September 15, 2003, 09:10:31 AM »
Lazs, it's GUARANTEED to happen because of existing legislation AND the 14th Amendment. Add to that almost certain civil lawsuits from excluded families and you have it. That's the point, Lazs... you aren't solving the root problem by leaving. It WILL follow you.

I am not against vouchers in concept; I simply feel they aren't going to make things better.

Offline capt. apathy

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school vouchers
« Reply #214 on: September 15, 2003, 09:46:52 AM »
you could be right.  things may not get better (at least not perminantly) with vouchers.  but they deffinatly aren't improving as it is now.

 every thing they do to make things better just screws it up worse.  every time we go through an economic upswing, schools use the extra cash to set up stupid little pet-projects, these things are the last thing cut when money gets tight again.

our kids are being held hostage for the money.  when we say we can't afford any more and they will just have to do with less (which is what we do. since taxes are based on a % of income the reason you don't have as much school funding is that the parents are broke), the schools don't try to do a good job with less.

  they make sure every dollar they feel cheated out of costs us dearly.  a lot like extortion.

for example,  this last school year we had this huge budget mess.  threats of closing schools early if we don't vote to raise taxes. shortened school year (longer vacations and the like)

  the local middle schools plays a movie for the kids every other friday for a couple hours (usually something that is fairly new to video, not educational).  movie day was not cut when days where being cut from the school year.

they days imediatly before 'winter vacation', spring break, and other holidays.  no homwork is given and no real teaching done before vacattions because 'the kids have their minds on their plans' (possably because the teacher isn't teaching that day freeing up thir minds to wander),  and they don't want to load them down on the first day back to allow them to 're adjust',  a reasonable system would have seen wasted days as the places to make the cuts.  instead it was the 'meat' of the years that was cut, all the frivolous stuff was kept, just the actuall learning was removed.

as yet another example of the stupid things our schools do. during this time my daughters class took a "feild trip" upto the snowbunny ski area, to go tubing.

  yes the individual parents had to pay for tube rental. but our tax dollars payed for a school bus and driver, and the teachers pay for the day.  when I went to school feild trips included OMSI (oregon museum of science and industry), art museums, natural history museums, zoo, forestry center, or a local company where we could learn something.  if I want my kid to go play in the snow, I'll take her.  if the teacher wants to go play in the snow she has plenty of days off to do that (not many people get a part time job that pays full time benefits)

  but worst of all when we are staring down the barrle of a shortened school year they wasted a day they could have been teaching.  as it is, the school year is something like 15% of the days we went 20 years ago.  with many more half days, and teacher planing days (I guess they're planning what to do with all this free time).
« Last Edit: September 15, 2003, 09:49:38 AM by capt. apathy »

Offline Kieran

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school vouchers
« Reply #215 on: September 15, 2003, 10:16:28 AM »
You'll get no argument from me concerning wasted tax dollars; I see it too.

Our school does no field trips at all. Nada.

We don't allow the viewing of any videos that are not directly educational in nature. If you can't link it to what you are learning, you aren't watching it.

We go the full 182 days regardless of budget. We'll just do with fewer teachers if push comes to shove.

Day before vacation... that's tough. As a teacher, you try to plan to end things (chapters, projects) about that time. Timing is critical though, and you can land a day early. Introducing a new concept the day before vacation is ok (and what I do), but you do so with the full knowledge you are going to start all over again the day school resumes. Homework over vacation is almost impossible to get, because kids simply won't do it. Then you have to fight with parents that go to the school board because you assigned homework over a vacation. I'm not kidding.

Little thing going on with me right now... I have a parent threatening to sue my school... seems she felt "threatened" when I told her continual tardies were going to land her daughter in some serious trouble if they continue. I figured after the girl was tardy 8 out of 10 days it would be a good idea to let mom know what our policies are regarding tardiness and truancy. So, a call from a concerned teacher might very well lead to a lawsuit from a parent more concerned her daughter might be punished than her daughter following school rules everyone else must follow. It's exactly parents like this who remove the teacher's ability to discipline; schools, public or private, cannot afford to continuously fight frivolous lawsuits.

These are the kind of people I am talking about bringing their problems with them when they exercise their rights to use vouchers. Private schools won't be able to just kick them out, either. I don't have an answer for that one, I just don't.

Offline capt. apathy

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school vouchers
« Reply #216 on: September 15, 2003, 12:22:13 PM »
when I was in school 8 tardys would have already been 2 days of after school detention and only one more needed to make it 3.  I can't remember if it was 3rd or 4th after-school detentions that also came with a day of in-school suspention.

I don't see where they have any grounds for a lawsuit at all.  I doubt she could find a lawyer.  I get so sick of these people that think that their being upset is grounds for a lawsuit.

maybe you should do a collum in the school paper.  sort of a curent events theme,  "people who have threatened to sue your school this week and why",  although somebody would probably threaten to sue you over being put on that list too.