Author Topic: Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?  (Read 1642 times)

Offline SaburoS

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« on: September 06, 2003, 12:43:26 PM »
http://www.comcast.net/News/DOMESTIC//XML/1107_AP_Online_Regional___Middle_East/29ec9d03-9098-4f05-92ba-ef24f7e583f5.html

 
Search for Iraq Weapons Proves Elusive  
 
36 minutes ago  
 
By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer
 
WASHINGTON - Weapons hunters in Iraq have found what they interpret as evidence of Iraqi preparations to secretly produce chemical and biological weapons, some Pentagon officials say.

But as the postwar weapons hunt enters its sixth month, it remains unclear whether they have found _ or ever will _ any evidence that Iraq had actually made such weapons or whether it simply was prepared to do so.

So far, the Bush administration has not announced anything that would validate the bulk of its prewar assertions about Iraq.

"What we have not yet shown, and what really counts, was that there were major, ongoing programs at the time we invaded Iraq," said Anthony Cordesman, an Iraq expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

The evidence of Iraqi preparations that the teams have found so far points to plans for weapons production that was to take place primarily at "dual-use" manufacturing facilities inside Iraq, the U.S. officials said. These are buildings with an overt, legitimate purpose, such as making pesticides or pharmaceuticals, but their equipment also can be used to make weapons.

No weapons have been reported found. The officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, did not know whether any evidence showed that Iraq had actually produced weapons or whether it simply had plans to do so.

Last week, David Kay, the CIA adviser heading up the search, told several members of Congress that he expects to find weapons of mass destruction, but that there also is the remote possibility he would not.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who met with Kay in Iraq on Saturday, said at a news conference in Baghdad that weapons hunters are "working diligently and professionally, and we all look forward to hearing what they have to say."

Uncovered plans and interviews with Iraqis suggested certain sites were prepared to make weapons, the defense officials said. Many of the suspect facilities themselves were looted in the chaos after the war.

Searchers have found quantities of chemicals and substances that can be used to make both weapons and legitimate civilian items, the officials said. Castor beans, for example, can be used to make brake fluid for cars and the poison ricin.

Reaching indisputable conclusions about the intended purpose of these items and sites can be difficult. Unless something else proves a particular batch of castor beans was intended for ricin production, searchers will lack solid proof of a weapons effort.

CIA officials declined to comment on any discoveries. Officials say there is no timetable for Kay to report his findings, although there has been some expectation he would provide a preliminary report this month.

Previously, the intelligence agency had publicized two discoveries in Iraq. Both have proved controversial.

As major fighting wound down, U.S. forces turned up two truck trailers that generally fit defectors' prewar descriptions of mobile biological weapons labs. Intelligence analysts at the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency, the CIA's counterpart at the Pentagon, said the trailers were probably indeed those labs.

But a second DIA team, composed of engineers, subsequently found the trailers were probably for hydrogen production for military weather balloons, as the Iraqis had claimed. Some State Department analysts also questioned the original CIA-DIA conclusion.

The DIA engineers said the trailers were not built to make the liquids and slurries used in biological weapons. But the intelligence analysts, citing the defectors, believe the trailers were only part of a weapons production line, arguing that other, as-yet-unfound trailers had the equipment to create a finished product.

CIA and DIA officials say the intelligence analysts stand by their findings that the trailers were for weapons.

Separately, in May, a former Iraqi nuclear scientist started providing parts and documents from Iraq's pre-1991 nuclear weapons program to CIA officers in Baghdad.

The scientist said he kept them buried in his backyard on the orders of Saddam Hussein's government, and he would dig them up to restart the program when U.N. penalties against Iraq were lifted.

The White House pointed to these as evidence Iraq still had weapons programs, although some American officials privately say they mark an intent, but not an actual program, to build a nuclear weapon.

The U.N. nuclear watchdog agency interpreted the find as proof that Iraq's nuclear weapons effort had never been revived.

Two months ago, after a visit to Iraq, Republican senators said U.S. searchers had uncovered solid evidence of weapons programs. But Democrats on the same trip said the evidence was not definitive. No one provided details.

In August, the leader of the weapons hunt, Kay, suggested a breakthrough was close. But Kay said the U.S. government would proceed slowly before going public with any discoveries, to make sure its analysis was sound.

That has left critics suggesting the administration either mishandled or exaggerated its prewar intelligence on Iraq's weapons programs.

"To date there has been no discovery that does not look like a residual or low-level effort growing out of what went on during the time before the Gulf War or when (pre-1998 U.N. inspectors) were still inspecting Iraq," Cordesman said.

He offered several possibilities:

_Without U.S. intelligence spotting them, the Iraqis destroyed their weapons programs, either in a deliberate manner in the 1990s because of the inspections, or perhaps in a panic before the recent war.

_The Iraqis hid the weapons so well that U.S. weapons hunters still cannot find them, a prospect Cordesman regarded as unlikely given the months of searching by U.N. and U.S. representatives.

_The Iraqis reduced their efforts to small-scale research programs, with plans to ramp up activities once U.N. penalties were lifted. Any production lines were never activated before the war.

_The administration has found some evidence of more widespread programs but is keeping it secret despite international pressure to justify its invasion of Iraq.
 
 
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Offline YUCCA

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2003, 03:05:03 PM »
They'll find em eventually, if not sadams they'll be ones planted by the ol' George Bush lol.

Offline Nilsen

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2003, 03:18:14 PM »
I belive its the CIA who will plant em, that way Bush can say:

*i know nuttin and i never have, so help me god :confused: *

Offline 10Bears

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2003, 03:44:10 PM »
No he'll just say he was out of the loop

Offline Nilsen

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2003, 04:21:33 PM »
Same thing :D

Offline Sandman

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2003, 06:47:45 PM »
Hear that sucking sound?


It's U.S. credibility.
sand

Offline Eagler

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2003, 06:53:11 PM »
yep

one down, a couple more to go
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Offline urbMAW

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2003, 07:28:00 PM »
lolo too funny...wait..in September US will be isuing a Large report on WMDS in Iraq...again...


So you morons who think Iraq never had WMDs? Think the UN resolution 1441 was fake also??


Lead a horse to water.......

too funny..btw F  S  for banning BiGB

Offline YUCCA

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2003, 08:08:11 PM »
Im not sayin they had or didn't have any.  But the point is George Bush will make sure they find some whether it's actually theirs or not :)

Offline Gixer

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2003, 06:20:41 AM »
Would this come from the same intelligence that also said the Iraq's had WMD ready to be deployed within 45mins?


...-Gixer



Quote
Originally posted by urbMAW
lolo too funny...wait..in September US will be isuing a Large report on WMDS in Iraq...again...


So you morons who think Iraq never had WMDs? Think the UN resolution 1441 was fake also??


Lead a horse to water.......

too funny..btw F  S  for banning BiGB

Offline capt. apathy

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2003, 06:38:08 AM »
seems that the cia isn't the only gov't agency that the bush admin alegedly told what they wanted in reports.

seems they also told the epa what to find on air quality in the NY area imediatly after 9/11.  

stumbled upon senate hearings on the subject on c-span thursday or friday, saying the whitehouse told epa officials that they needed a report finding the air at or near ground zero safe for reasons of nat'l security.  and the epa obliged without taking any readings or basing the report on any evidence at all.

I guess you can report just about anything you want if you tell investigators what you want their findings to be before they write the reports.

Offline type_char

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2003, 06:48:42 AM »
Raises hand, and suggests that Grunhers should not be allowed to ever plan any invasions of any sort except an invasion of France.

Offline Defiance

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2003, 08:19:06 AM »
Search n see (vids) or read witness reports about the attrocities carried out by sadams regime

See woman and kids gassed or mutilated and maimed see young men unwilling to serve in his forces shot or tortured to death

WMD's, Look at the area iraq covers, Think where you would hide wmd's if you had to, Play cat n mouse with inspectors for several yrs while you hide/conceal weapons

Sheesh some people must think the regime would have put boards up with arrows saying   here we hid wmd's etc

Damn i could if i had resources sadam had of hidden a thousand wmd's

And you think that because inspectors were looking and checking and they never found the golden fleece of wmd's he aint got any ?

He jerked the UN (laughable as it is now) for yrs and as i say could of hid anything anywhere in this time

Sheesh people go into a sewing machine and get a needle out, Now on your property go hide it, then ask people to find it (get the picture)

Ohh and don't forget at the time the searchers could ONLY look where they wanted after written PERMISSION/CONCENT and PRIOR WARNING at first in iraq, I know now this does not apply but dang it get real (during this time who had the upper hand ?)

Man it's a sad day when you can see a evil/sadistic/genocidal be brought to account then after this people whine about no wmd's

And i know there are more tyrants and sadistic/genocidal regimes around the world but you have to start somewhere and in reality some regimes could never be brought to account eg a very large communist state (means massive war etc, i think you get the hint)

Hurray Iraq's dictatorships gone, Gonna be a long haul for peace though admittedly but it's a start

I myself feel that he's had anything hid real good/countries involved with supplying n aiding stuff have helped them disappear to save their own 6's / moved n hid outside iraq (look at geography)

Don't just look at negative side so far look at the positive
A piece of scum and his terror regime have had their day and are now in custody or ****ting bricks 24/7 wondering wtf is gonna happen next

If you want to feel sick i can navigate you to some sources about how his regime worked and how he oppressed his country without a thought for anyone/anything else except his regime (not on a full stomach)

You know what his one son (maimed one) liked to order and watch ?
Shoving prisoners i use this term loosly into a industrial plastic recycling shredding machine and bagging the results and dishing it out for officials for there fish to feast on

And here some are chatting about was it worth it as no wmd's found yet    sheesh

You may sense i feel angry writing this ?  well yes i am, because i don't care what colour/religeon any person is, i respect people for what they are
Don't get me wrong i aint a softie, i believe an eye for an eye legal-wise but to me everone is born equal though some think they were born more equal to others but these generally meet their match and are brought back down to earth

I was born in england in 1967, I was brought up as a youth with terrorism news reports etc and all that goes with terrorism  surrounding northern ireland

1st terrorism act that stays in my mind was the killing of (forgive spelling) heiry neave ?
Seen all terrorism all my life thus far and that's just about northern ireland, also about spains terrorism i guess to some degree

I would of thought and hoped that at least since my birth people would of learned by the past or at least the commities/bodies/think tanks etc (UN *laugh*) would of learned but hell no. People just can't admit wrongs were done and get on with making this planet a better place for the future :( for all peoples and all faiths etc

Well i feel better after letting off some steam

Offline Eagler

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2003, 08:36:44 AM »
Titanium

posts/thoughts like that will get you shipped to America :)

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Offline Holden McGroin

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Iraq invasion still justified if there are no WMDs found?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2003, 12:50:31 PM »
Quote
a sentiment shared by several
I'm not sayin they had or didn't have any. But the point is George Bush will make sure they find some whether it's actually theirs or not


Sounds like some are trying to hedge thier bets.

Hiding a drum of chem or bio would not be that difficult, all one needs is a backhoe, about 20 minutes, and a desert to hide it in.

Hiding would be much easier than destruction or transportation to the Bekka valley.

They do have Foxbats buried in the desert, so they have practice.

Patience.....
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