Author Topic: September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!  (Read 1786 times)

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« on: September 12, 2003, 11:35:22 AM »
We all remembered 911/2001 yesterday. The airborne attacks we not just a crime against America, but against the western world.

I also read all the posts in the “where were you on that day” thread. People reacted to the disaster in some very different ways. I couldn’t bring myself to talk about it for a couple of months. But for many, including a couple of people from the other thread, the reaction was to grab a gun, oil it up, and reload it ready for use. One person even “thanked God for the right to own guns”, a statement you might agree with, or one which contains one or even two counts of misplaced faith, depending on your point of view. In the aftermath of 911/2001, gun sales in America soared, and sales of ammunition increased by 70%! I pondered over that for a while. Why would anyone think that possession of a gun might be a safeguard against organised terrorist hijackers? Does Al Qa’eda have any history of making house calls? Erm... no. It kind of reminded me about that nutty guy in NY state who was so paranoid about Y2K that he built his own shelter in a remote area, constructed from parts salvaged from 45 yellow school buses! And then Y2K came and went, and... nothing.

As I understand it, the US coastline is protected by an identification system which requires all aircraft to report their presence and intentions within 60 miles of the nearest coastal point. If an aircraft has not done so within 10 miles of the coast, it faces military interception. Great, but what about the danger from within? I had been amazed (until 2001) at the ease with which one could board an aircraft in the US, compared to the same thing here. It was as if terrorism did not exist on US soil...

...and that was the Achilles heel that provided the terrorists with their window of opportunity. US Immigration makes checks on every foreigner entering the country. I have to fill in a form when I come, and answer questions like ”Have you ever been a member of the Communist party?”, and ”Have you ever belonged to the party governing Nazi Germany 1933-1945?” – hardly likely for the vast majority of modern air travellers.

And yet, once inside the country, security was very much relaxed. Seems like the terrorists had that figured out.

We’ve had our gun debates, and this isn’t going to be another one. But I do wonder about the “gun grabbers” when an incident of national security arises. My feeling is that too many people place too much faith in the protection that a gun offers, and grossly overestimate the likelihood of needing one – not that such a scenario never occurs.

But what is far more likely is an attack from within. The average person in the western world is far more likely to die from an avoidable accident in the home, or from a disease stemming from lack of exercise, bad diet, obesity, smoking or alcohol abuse.

But just as the US itself is vigilant against attacks from outside, and relaxed about the threat from within, so it could be said of the average gun owning home owner, who is unlikely to be attacked from outside, and much more likely to find that his seeds of doom were the contents of his refrigerator, that easy chair in front of the TV, and the lifestyle that results.

Offline AWMac

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9251
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2003, 11:40:00 AM »
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.....:rolleyes:

Offline Udie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3395
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2003, 11:40:39 AM »
Not sure I get the point of your post, but I'll ramble on anyway :D

 I was wishing I had a gun on 9/11/01 too, but I didn't.  You have to understand one thing.  This was the first time our homeland was attacked in our lifetimes.  By that I mean the in the lifetime of every person born in the USA who was alive on 9/11.

 There were so many things running through my mind.  One of them was actually, are the Russians behind this?  Is this the start of a "Red Dawn"?  Are there terrrorist in place here in country that have guns now and are going to do "all out war"?  I was wanting a gun just in case my paranoia was true, thankfully it wasn't :)

 That's another thing to remember.  If we're ever attacked here by an army. Well, there are millions of people who will jump out their front doors shooting ;)

Offline gofaster

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6622
Re: September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2003, 11:47:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
But for many, including a couple of people from the other thread, the reaction was to grab a gun, oil it up, and reload it ready for use.


Yeah, I had the same reaction as you did.  WTF with grabbing a gun?  Like the terrorists are going to come down the street in an unmarked pickup truck with a machine gun mounted on top and start their urban assault in that person's neighborhood?  :rolleyes:

When security gets ramped up, a gun is the last thing I want in my vehicle or on my person.  I've seen episodes of "COPS", I know how police react to weapons - "Get him!  He's got a gun!" and by the time the perp is in the back of the cruiser he looks like Rodney King drinking Olde English in Los Angeles.

The only gun I wanted was the one the US Gov't would issue me in bootcamp, if I wasn't too old to enlist.

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2003, 11:49:50 AM »
"""Does Al Qa’eda have any history of making house calls? Erm... no""""


did Al Qa’eda have any history of using air planes to attack buildings? Erm....no

Offline Pooh21

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3145
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2003, 11:51:04 AM »
I woulda rather had a baseball bat, seriously I felt like going into the city center and looking for some dancing islam types that day. Especially after they showed em on tv.
Bis endlich der Fiend am Boden liegt.
Bis Bishland bis Bishland bis Bishland wird besiegt!

Offline ra

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3569
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2003, 12:02:00 PM »
In case of a national emergency, the main reason a gun would make one feel safer is as a protection against looters and other dirtbags who may want to take advantage of the situation.  Depending on where you live, that could be a real issue under certain circumstances.

ra

Offline Otto

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1566
      • http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2003, 03:13:20 PM »
Mine was already oiled.  I just had to get out the ammo.

Offline Dago

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5324
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2003, 05:03:08 PM »
Quote
I have to fill in a form when I come, and answer questions like ”Have you ever been a member of the Communist party?”, and ”Have you ever belonged to the party governing Nazi Germany 1933-1945?” – hardly likely for the vast majority of modern air travellers


You are welcome to stay home and avoid these questionaires.  We would prefer it actually, we have enough asxholes in this country already, we don't need another one.


Dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Scootter

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1050
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2003, 05:07:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
In case of a national emergency, the main reason a gun would make one feel safer is as a protection against looters and other dirtbags who may want to take advantage of the situation.  Depending on where you live, that could be a real issue under certain circumstances.

ra



Zackley right

Now you are thinking, after Andrew it was very much a requirement as there was no law.

It has been said we are never more then about three meals away from anarchy.

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2003, 06:13:31 PM »
Seconded, the reason I got a gun was not because I thought Bin Laden was going to blast through Mar Vista with a Bradley, but in case there were more attacks on our soft infrastructure that could have potentially cut off access to water, food, etc.  If that happened, there might have been a breakdown of societies rules and my wife and I would have needed to watch out for ourselves and not be able to depend on John Law.

Remember, I live in LA, and ten years ago, big chunks of LA were burning because of mass riots and looting because one guy was beaten.  When that happened, I was ashamed of my country.  It's one thing to believe in the strength of character of your fellow man, but in light of past events, I'll back up my optimism with insurance care of Mossberg, Ruger, and Glock.

If you really think the gun owners getting prepared was because they thought terrorists would attack them, you're missing hte point.

That aside, it's obvious to us now that it was terrorists.  But on 9-11-2001, it could have been China starting an attack for all we knew.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline vorticon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7935
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2003, 06:18:09 PM »
Quote
[i

 That's another thing to remember.  If we're ever attacked here by an army. Well, there are millions of people who will jump out their front doors shooting ;) [/B]


that was the original intent yes...though its hardly a well orginized militia but it works

Offline Erlkonig

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2003, 06:38:46 PM »
beetle, if you think that's weird, you should visit a gun enthusiast message board sometime.  A hot topic of discussion is SHTF (**** hits the fan) scenarios and TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) and exactly what weaponry is suitable for such situations.  And they're serious.

Offline Dune

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1727
      • http://www.352ndfightergroup.com/
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2003, 08:11:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Erlkonig
beetle, if you think that's weird, you should visit a gun enthusiast message board sometime.  A hot topic of discussion is SHTF (**** hits the fan) scenarios and TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) and exactly what weaponry is suitable for such situations.  And they're serious.


Much weirder than a bunch of guys screaming at each other about which computer plane flys better than it should  :rolleyes:

And don't tell me that Fd-ski isn't serious about Spits.  ;)

Here, go to this website: http://www.nookhill.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi   and see a bunch of gun nuts argue about who makes a better hunting rifle, Winchester or Remington.  (Win does of course)

Offline medicboy

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 666
September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2003, 11:09:40 PM »
Personaly IMHO if you wait for something bad to happen and then go buy a gun you are getting it for the wrong reason.  I have been a gun owner since I was 10 years old when my dad bought me my first 22.  Some call me a "gun nut" and that's ok, its what I like to do.  I wory as much about shooting sub-moa as some people do about keeping there rice rockets in top shape.  If having a hobby that happens to be not so popular with the general population makes me crazy than so be it.  When 9-11 happened, I was not supprised in the least.  Hurt, angry, sad... yes very much so, supprised...no.  You run around with a blind fold on long enough you are going to fall smack on your face sooner or later.  A lot of people say we don't need guns, we have the police.  Well 99% of the time the cops dont get there till after the crime is commited and then it is too late.  You can't stop something from happening after it already happened., and people usualy call 911 after a crime has occured.   Contrary to popular belief, most of us "gun nuts" don't sleep with a pistol under our pillow.  For home defense I chose common sense, guns are always a last resort.  I wont live in a place that has a high crime rate, but I still lock my doors at night and I have a 95lb dog that sleeps in the room with my wife and I.  I do have several pistols but they are all in a fire proof safe with the rest of my collection for 2 reasons.  1: I have a very courious 16month old that gets into everything and having guns where he can get to them even if I  "know" they are not loaded is just not going to happen.  2:  I have thought long and hard and came to the decision that my house is much more likely to burn down than get robbed when I'm home.

Back to 9-11, while everyone else was scurring around buying water, batteries, canned food, I went scouting for deer as season was opening in just a few days.  SOme may make fun of me because I keep a few extra canned goods around, have some extra water stored, always keep extra ammo for all my guns, and never let any of my vehicles get below 1/2 a tank of gas before filling it up.  Just look at this last power outage, all these people that run around with 2 gal of gas in there car suddenly found them selves scrounging for gas.  Worst case senerio for me is I have a couple of days to find gas or weight for the power to come back on.    So no, I didn't buy any guns on 9-11 or soon after, I already had them.  I guess it is just a leason learned from my boyscout days, "be prepared".  It never hurts.