Gun kill power

[-towd_]

i think they reall close , make the fighter 50 cals the same as buff guns and they got it ( my opinion ) all other seems right on

[Zigrat]

I think the nose mounted 20mms and 30mms scatter too much, it makes accurate shots beyond 100 yards impossible (ie aiming for a particular part of a plane)

[Toad]

ah...the good old days in other places where you could pour 1/2 a Spit load of 20mm into someones tail from 250 yds and watch him fly off.  

[funked]

Anybody ever seen an MK 108?  Very short barrel.  It was a short range weapon.

[SpyHawk]

Well...since nobody has any charts to offer...
 

Does anybody know anything about the German 15mm machinecannon? Was it anygood? How did it compare against the .50 M2 and others?

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by -towd_:
i think they reall close , make the fighter 50 cals the same as buff guns and they got it ( my opinion ) all other seems right on

Fighter .50s are the same as in bombers..
Kill power seems same and range is same also.

[easymo]

 I thought the idea here was to aproximate the experiance of a WW2 pilot. Im pretty sure that the prospect of getting shot ,even once, caused considerable anxiety in a real pilot. It follows than, that the realism level is proportionate to the leathility of the weapons. That other sim is boreing, in that you dont even have to start paying attention until you have been sprayed 3 or 4 times. I would hate to see AH go that route.

[Tac]

This thread is warping my words a bit. What I meant is that the CONVERGENCE on the 38 seems to have no effect whatsoever here. In RL a short burst of 4 .50's and one 20mm cannon, each gun being half a foot apart would literally saw a hole wherever it hit. That's what convergence is for!. Yet here we see 38's hitting targets half a dozen times (in same pass or several passes) and the planes either get no damage and fly off or *just* blow a tire or an insignificant flap. So, where is the convergence on this plane??  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Tac:
This thread is warping my words a bit. What I meant is that the CONVERGENCE on the 38 seems to have no effect whatsoever here. In RL a short burst of 4 .50's and one 20mm cannon, each gun being half a foot apart would literally saw a hole wherever it hit. That's what convergence is for!. Yet here we see 38's hitting targets half a dozen times (in same pass or several passes) and the planes either get no damage and fly off or *just* blow a tire or an insignificant flap. So, where is the convergence on this plane??  

What I've tried P-38, close in theres no problem taking enemy down with a snap shot (aimed and quick shot)
You must hit same spot and closer than 500 yards...
from 200-100 yards it does tear that part off what you shoot at.. like it would be butter.

In Bf109, which has less armament and even less effect in each than .50 or 20mm in P38 has, I get kills with 7-20 rounds of shot cannon rounds. (yah yah, im this good blahblah.. noot.. just example that lethalities are enough high)
Then compare that to P38 which has more power.... *whew*
Only thing I do, is that I get shots close up and aimed at one spot.

Try next time get close in (100-200 yards like) and then shoot quick burst in one spot of the plane.
Also, in real life you necessarily didn't have to blow up the plane or shoot wing off to get kill, like in AH.
They jumped even if elevator was out during a battle, unlike in AH where pilots goes for ditching even with plane that has no wingtips and other stuff missing.
Life was back then more important than in AH, where ditch only leaves you with better scores.

One thing that I find intresting with AH .50s, is that even from 200 yards it disperses quite alot.
I did once shoot planes on the runway (as a cap  ), and there came at times B26 100 yards off, I shot at it and I could see hits even in engines when I were aiming middle of cockpit.

Bullets does not fly straight, and this is more visible from long ranges and also how you aim is in important role.
It is not enough that you just see hits all around the plane.

hmm.. ok, thats it, only replies from Tac accepted ok? so that there won't come any big barbecue flame party here.
I must learn to type shortly  

[Tac]

Fishu, the chances of you getting within 200 yards and shoot when in a 38 are not very good (if you stay that close you risk overshooting or your prey scissoring into your 6 quite quick). I always fire below 500 yds, preferable 300. At 100 range even the Yak's machine guns (not cannon) will make short work a fighter.

Another good example is HO situations. You can pump a hell of a lot of hits on a fighter on a HO and it will fly off. In a pony or F4UD this would be ok, as your real "killing" burst would be the one at convergence.. but in a 38?? Convergence below 1k is almost guaranteed. This is my observation/question.

I believe I have several films of ponys I've shot at while they turn, at d400 to d120 (rudder pointing guns before I overshoot) where the pony becomes a christmas tree of pings from nose to tail and there was no damage done to that plane. And this happens with annoying regularity.

"One thing that I find intresting with AH .50s, is that even from 200 yards it disperses quite alot.
I did once shoot planes on the runway (as a cap ), and there came at times B26 100 yards off, I shot at it and I could see hits even in engines when I were aiming middle of cockpit."

That is true in all fighters. Your plane is also moving while you hit, so your initial shots may hit a bit off, but most of your bullets will hit where you wanted to =)

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Tac:
Fishu, the chances of you getting within 200 yards and shoot when in a 38 are not very good (if you stay that close you risk overshooting or your prey scissoring into your 6 quite quick). I always fire below 500 yds, preferable 300. At 100 range even the Yak's machine guns (not cannon) will make short work a fighter.

Another good example is HO situations. You can pump a hell of a lot of hits on a fighter on a HO and it will fly off. In a pony or F4UD this would be ok, as your real "killing" burst would be the one at convergence.. but in a 38?? Convergence below 1k is almost guaranteed. This is my observation/question.

I believe I have several films of ponys I've shot at while they turn, at d400 to d120 (rudder pointing guns before I overshoot) where the pony becomes a christmas tree of pings from nose to tail and there was no damage done to that plane. And this happens with annoying regularity.

"One thing that I find intresting with AH .50s, is that even from 200 yards it disperses quite alot.
I did once shoot planes on the runway (as a cap ), and there came at times B26 100 yards off, I shot at it and I could see hits even in engines when I were aiming middle of cockpit."

That is true in all fighters. Your plane is also moving while you hit, so your initial shots may hit a bit off, but most of your bullets will hit where you wanted to =)

The Russian 12.7 UBS is slightly bigger round then the US .50

Point? None.  

- Jig

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Tac:
Fishu, the chances of you getting within 200 yards and shoot when in a 38 are not very good (if you stay that close you risk overshooting or your prey scissoring into your 6 quite quick). I always fire below 500 yds, preferable 300. At 100 range even the Yak's machine guns (not cannon) will make short work a fighter.

"One thing that I find intresting with AH .50s, is that even from 200 yards it disperses quite alot.
I did once shoot planes on the runway (as a cap ), and there came at times B26 100 yards off, I shot at it and I could see hits even in engines when I were aiming middle of cockpit."

That is true in all fighters. Your plane is also moving while you hit, so your initial shots may hit a bit off, but most of your bullets will hit where you wanted to =)

I did that runway shooting in an M3 by the way.. which seems to have same dispersion  as aircraft guns has.
It is quite alot also.. I've been shooting alot ground with M3 and M16, bullets goes all over..
In planes, it is same, but when I used 7.92mm, I could have shot the pilot.
Try yourself sometimes shoot P38 .50 calibers, one by one, you'll see how horrible dispersion there is.

Anyway.. I keep getting within 200 yards in P38 easier than in P47  
Also in Bf109 when I am E fightning, I get close enough.
I did once C.205 duel few times, that was real close in fight  
We fought within 50 yards for several seconds and still not getting guns aimed! (we did shoot nothing but those 7mm guns)

I Wish that fights would be done closer in, would make up for serious fun than shooting from +500 yards.

HO? why to HO?
Thats the least thing that I do, because I keep my odds for surviving and killing far better when I evade HO and do the shooting part after that.

Only time when I might shoot 400-500 yards off is when I have suprised the enemy and guns are dead on.
If you like them to not scissor behind you, you must go slower or very fast  
..or counter it with scissors or other maneuver that feels better for the situation.

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 08-13-2000).]