Author Topic: Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?  (Read 2163 times)

Offline Manedew

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2003, 09:32:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

employers should have a no fault ability to fire if drugs show up in mandatory tests.



You talk as if you want a Gattaca like future ... not everyone has the luxury to deny corprate intrusions into your life ....but..

Have you've become so used to this BS (Piss in a cup or no job) that you actully belive in it?

No wonder noone cares about crap like the patriot act ..... desensatized to bureacratic intrusions

Have you heard about the FBI's new registry virus? They think it's real 'cool' to spy on windoze user's; and that it's thier 'right' now.. for your safety of course ... cause you might be a terrorist...


and do i think drugs should be legal .. Yes ... but not gonna happen in this corrupt bellybutton country .....

Highest incarceration rate in the world .... ::shakes head::
supply and demand ... ya just can't stop it ...

Oh and we restarted that program that shoots down the aircraft of suspected drug dealer's in peru and colombia..... they stoped it when they shot down a missonaries plane .... Your tax dollars at work....
« Last Edit: September 14, 2003, 09:52:41 AM by Manedew »

Offline mora

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2003, 09:36:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Abuse would be trace amounts of even pot in your system if you were driving.   I would say that if you used pot regularly.... you should pretty much forfiet your drivers licence..  Unemployment or welfare benifiets should be cancelled if mandatory drug tests show positive.

employers should have a no fault ability to fire if drugs show up in mandatory tests.

simply legalizing drugs without making the druggies responsible for their actions is not fair to everyone else.
lazs


The problem is that if you take someone of welfare he won't die because of it, but he resorts to crime. Maybe them druggies should be just eliminated with more efficient  methods?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2003, 09:41:32 AM by mora »

Offline Creamo

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2003, 11:09:41 AM »
Curval, you mean to say yank a DL because a guy had a beer at lunch and went home with a bad tail light and should lose his DL for blowing .01?

[edit] Don't ban me skuzzy for saying "YANK", I know Dripsnore "will complain"

Offline Curval

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2003, 11:15:02 AM »
Isn't that what lazs is suggesting if you happen to smoke a dubbie the night before and you get pulled over and have traces in your body?

I think it is wrong in both cases.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Creamo

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #64 on: September 14, 2003, 11:19:39 AM »
Maybe, not sure,  but smoking a joint will show up long after impared, drinking is immediate. It's all in testing and how it is done.

Offline Curval

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2003, 11:29:33 AM »
I agree...which makes his suggestion "post legalisation" a very unfair one.  He advocates strong government control over "druggies" usage, yet no control over guns or alcohol.  I'm not advocating gun control..don't get me wrong.  Just pointing out that he is somewhat hypocritical on his versions of "freedom".

I think he bases this on the fact that he is a responsible gun owner and therefore he should be allowed to do what he wants with guns.

It is also seemingly okay, in his mind, to be a responsible drinker.

It is, it appears, unfathomable for there to be such a thing as a responsible drug user in his mind, perhaps because he was so involved in the dirty business himself.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Creamo

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2003, 11:54:54 AM »
Testing for drugs and alcohol are already in place, but for a select few occupations. Airline employees such as pilots and mechanics to name 2 I know. So what Laz advocates is a reality, it's just for certain American employees. Does it work? Dunno. Would Laz put the 4 barrel 72 muscle car in the garage 10 years ago for fear of getting pulled over with last weeks joint in his system? Ask him if his new found sobriety legal views would have actually worked on him, I just don't know.

Your trying to say there is a no such thing as a responsible drug user, Im not touching that. I find time to party on my own time and pass every breathalizer I've had in 15 years. I may be a bastard here, but I always make work and get the job done, with the tests. Who knows.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2003, 12:06:45 PM »
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Originally posted by Mark Luper
In what states is it legal to marry a sheep? I really want to know. I can't beleive it myself.


It certainly is not illegal to do it in all states. Unless all states have passed legislation stating marrying sheep is illegal, its legal in those states which have not passed legislation highlighting that fact.
-SW

Offline Dune

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2003, 12:11:48 PM »
Without getting into a debate over the merits of the govt's drug policy  I have mixed feelings about the whole thing.  IMO, it's a cash drain.  Prohibition does not work.  For booze, guns or drugs.  Or illegal monkies.  If someone wants something and are willing to pay for it, someone will sell it to them.  I have friends who are local and federal law enforcement.  I know that we spend billions world-wide to stop maybe 10% of the drugs that come into this country.  

However...

I am a deputy county prosecutor in a poor rural county in Arizona.  For the last two years I have prosecuted juvenile crime.  Sure I see a bunch of kids who get busted for having joints or pipes or a small bit of weed.  Are they hurting themselves any more than I did in high school where I was drinking at parties just about every weekend?  No, probably not.  But then I also see kids who have no future because of drugs.  They're parents have so fried their brains with meth, pot and God knows what else that they recieved no guidence or supervision.  And what didi the kids do?  They same things they saw their parents do.  So they're out smoking pot, huffing paint and doing meth.  And now I look at them and know that there is no future for them.  Just one drug convcition after another.  If they don't get to the point where they are commiting crimes to support their habit.  And if it were legal?  Then they'd still be sitting on the sidewalk stoned out of their minds until they spent all their money on legal drugs and went out to commit crimes to pay for them.

Yes, I have friends who are recreational pot smokers.  Educated, well-to-do, suburbanites.  Are they at risk to end up meth-addicts because they smoke a joint every now and then?  Nope.  Not by a long shot.  And of course you can say that these kids wouldn't be at risk if their parents were better, if they had better schools and education and job opportunities.  And you'd be right.  But what made their parents ****ty, stoned idiots?  They didn't take advantage of the education opportunities they had.  And they're not interested in a job.  They just want to turn on and tune out.

What would happen if drugs were legalized tomorrow and taxed and regulated like tobacco or booze?  Crime might decrease.  There would be a rise in tax income to the gov't to pay for programs.  But would there be a rise in addicts who are no longer productive members of society and end up having to be taken care of by the system?  I'm afriad the answer is yes.  In my county, despite the efforts of law enforcement, drugs are so easy to get they might as well be legalized.  And the effect is crime and poverty.  I can't really see how more of that would be good.

Perhaps we'll never know until we try it.  But, what do we do if it creates a disaster?  That's one genie that you'll never get back into the bottle.

Offline capt. apathy

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2003, 12:35:43 PM »
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Perhaps we'll never know until we try it


it's been tried sucessfully.  here in the US when we re-legalized alcohol.  sure you still have some drunks who are non-productive, familys are hurt, people killed by drunk drivers, all of these bad things,  but you still had them during prohibition, but you where also fueling organized crime too.  just like we are doing with drugs today.

Offline mora

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2003, 12:39:56 PM »
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Originally posted by Dune

What would happen if drugs were legalized tomorrow and taxed and regulated like tobacco or booze?  Crime might decrease.  There would be a rise in tax income to the gov't to pay for programs.  But would there be a rise in addicts who are no longer productive members of society and end up having to be taken care of by the system?  I'm afriad the answer is yes.  In my county, despite the efforts of law enforcement, drugs are so easy to get they might as well be legalized.  And the effect is crime and poverty.  I can't really see how more of that would be good.

Perhaps we'll never know until we try it.  But, what do we do if it creates a disaster?  That's one genie that you'll never get back into the bottle.


That kind of thing can't be implemented overnight. At first you could stop locking people up and branding them for the rest of their lives. Arent they doing things a little bit different in Canada, maybe you should ask some advice from them?

Offline rpm

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2003, 01:06:27 PM »
Why not look at Oregon and Alaska's history? Both states had very liberal Marijuana laws for an extended period and they both seem to still be healthy, productive members of the Union and society. They didn't turn into "dens of depravity". Using the "if we ever start the walls will come crumbling down" arguement seems to be muted by this.
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Offline Maniac

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2003, 05:44:33 AM »
So wich countries can you legally smoke pot in today?

Holland
Belgium

And then?
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Offline mora

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #73 on: September 15, 2003, 06:10:25 AM »
I believe every European country has signed UN conventions which criminalizes drug use and posession. But, it's tolerated to different degrees depending on country. At least in Finland and Sweden there are always some consequenses.

Offline takeda

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Should drugs be legalized in the USA ?
« Reply #74 on: September 15, 2003, 06:30:40 AM »
The situation is complex here in Spain.

Drug use is not penalized in Spain if not performed in public avenues.
Drug posession for personal use carries an administrative fine, but is not a criminal offence.
Drug posession for traffic is a criminal offence.

The differences between posession for personal use or traffic lie largely at jurisprudence and particular case by case judgement.

In fact police and tribunals here concentrate on the most dangerous stuff, but also will prosecute big shipments of hash, cannabis, etc...

"Little fish" consumers or small time vendors of hash or cannabis are more or less left alone if they keep things quiet.