another new gun..

[Twist]

Originally posted by BGBMAW
lazs...where do u shoot in Dixon?...

I shoot alot..long range rifle  and short pistol range..

I shoot right outside Beale Air Force Base..they have a great 300 yd range ...all open to public..no people to yell at you..

"One shot a second!! Only"...

Hell why do i  have 30 and 40 round clips for both my handguns and rifles?..lolol


Salute
BiGB

I used to go with my dad in the 70's to a place near Smartsville on the Yuba river to practice and prepare for hunting season, the echoes off the canyon were great! Lived in Browns Valley, Loma Rica and Yuba City (Class of '81), left with the Air Force and never came back.  Had hoped to retire in Grass Valley someday but the left coast just doesn't appeal to me that much any more. Got my sights on Alaska.

The looks I get at a local range when I empty a large clip never seem to differ much. Sounds like things aren't much different there. Ah well, they'll get over it.

[BGBMAW]

twist,,its great here..i love kikn hippies....

grass valley i sshweet..i live in loomis now..love it,,

and beetle..

semi auto also fires much quiker...with usalluy a bettr follow up shots quiker and more accurate then wheel guns

mine RAREly jams..and only after a few hundred rounds of crappy reloads.. and mine is just a mid range priced semi auto.$300.ruger 9mil

[lazs2]

bb... There is an outdoor range in Davis that I use to sight stuff in.   I work for the city and at my facility we have a lot of acerage... the police range for police, sheriff and swat is on the property... I just step out of my office and blast away.   My brother lives out in the country in Woodland so I sometimes go there.   My son was here last weekend and he wanted to "rapid fire"   I told him to have fun.   I guess it is a problem for a lot of guys...  Hope I never have to deal with it.

I bought a chronograph... allways wanted one but they are down to chump change... 75 bucks... I reload so was interested in performance..  What a kick to see how fast your reloads are... have loaded some factory equivilent .45 loads that use cast slugs... I can load a box of fifty for about 3 to four bucks... same for 44 mag.   Plus... they are at least as accurate as factory ammo sometimes much more so.   try to find a factory 240 grain 44mag that will do 1100 fps out of a 4" revolver..   you can get more powerful factory rounds that are really stiff or much less powerful but not 1100.

The Witness has not jammed in 500 rounds of cast reloads and factory ball... I have mixed the rounds in the magazine even.  

Oh.. the witness is "compensated"  it kicks less and rises less than the Kimber but velocity is down at least 50 fps by my chronograph.
lazs

[BGBMAW]

cast loads?./..you mean lead ball style..no copper jaket?

I hate and will not use those anymore..fro me after 100 rounds or so..the frikn barrle is smothered in lead and its a real pain in the bellybutton to clean..

4" 44 mag?/! godam

[GtoRA2]

I want one of these bad.
 Fulton Armory is now having recievers made and building them on all GI parts.


I am considering selling the Goat, lol I may use some of the cash on this...

[Dune]

Originally posted by BGBMAW
cast loads?./..you mean lead ball style..no copper jaket?

I hate and will not use those anymore..fro me after 100 rounds or so..the frikn barrle is smothered in lead and its a real pain in the bellybutton to clean..

4" 44 mag?/! godam

Try Wipe-Out.  It is a lead/copper solvent for cleaing your barrel.

[lazs2]

There is no reason for a properly cast slug of the right alloy and size (and lube) to lead a barrel at anything short of around 1300 feet per second.   The 45 auto is a perfecrt candidate for cast slugs as it pokes along at around 850 fps... no leading in either of my 45 autos or 1917 S&W 6" revolver in 45 acp with lead slugs

Some minor leading in the long barreled Rugers in 44 mag at around 1200 fps but easy to clean... A hint... run a couple of jaketed slugs through at the end of a shooting session.

lead slugs (if you don't cast em yourself) cost about $40 a THOUSAND... years ago that was enough incentive to produce good lead bullet loads.  

swagged lead bullets are another matter... suitable only for target low powered full wadcutter rounds.

Gas check lead slugs are suitable for even rifle velocities.   No point for what I do tho.

oh... from the sandbags... the lead slug groups I shot were slightly better in every case than the FMJ factory 45 loads.   Most shot under 2 inches with about 5 touching and one or two "flyers".... probly my fault.... best I can do these days at 25 yards with any handgun except a target 22.

lazs

[Mini D]

I'd rather pay $58 per THOUSAND to get jacketed bullets.

MiniD

[lazs2]

and... what do you do now if a revolver or auto you have just doesn't seem to group well?   throw it way? sell it?   If you reload you can slug the barrel and find out what the grooves are and size lead slugs to match... you can experiment with bullet weights that you can't buy from the factor and you can try different powder types and charge weights.... you can cut the group in half or better most times.
lazs

[Mini D]

I've never had the problem... but I only use jacketed rounds.  But I only have about 5000 rounds through my .40 and 2000 through the .357.

I have a friend that helps me with my reloading.  He buys the cheapest components he can find... often even buying 10,000 rounds of "rejected" ammo so he can tear it apart and use them individually.  We have always differed on our oppinion of a decent price/component vs the cheapest price/component.  I'm glad he's such a cheapscate... if he didn't cross over the line between price and reliability, I wouldn't have such a good idea where it was.

And... when guns go bad... they go bad.  I can't see throwing them out, but I'm not going to hand feed them either.  They'll get retired... put out to pasture so to speak.

MiniD

[lazs2]

mini... what jaketed slugs do you buy for 58 bucks a thousand?   I can buy 45 230fmj for about 70... light slugs in .357 are fairly cheap but  you can buy cast slugs in .357 for about 27 bucks a thousand.  

 For a forty cal or a 357 I would probly use mostly jacketed slugs... "my guy" is me.   I do not want to depend on someone else and what he says is true...I have about 30 years reloading a variety of cartriges (mostly pistol/revolver) and have tried about every component available.   I buy jacketed slugs by the thousand on occassion and allways have em on hand..

They do not shoot any better than the cast slugs from pistols/revolvers at the velocities I have mentioned... In fact... they mostly shoot worse.   Most pistol matches are won with cast bullets.   All firearms have ammo preference... All firearms will shoot better with proper reloads.

If I shot .357 and .40 then I would probly shoot mostly jacketed slugs...  I like the 357 but... everything it does the 44 mag does better and is easier to reload and... likes cast bullets.    the .40 is a decent round but 45 is better.   I don't want to get all the brass mixed up.   the little .40 sticks inside a 45 case in the tumbler.   I have more faith in the 45 than the 40.    I may get a 10mm tho... that is a "40 magnum" essentialy... that would make the 40 worth playing with.

cast bullets run around 50-60% of the cost of jacketed and at velocities under 1300 fps work extremly well.   If you have someone reload for you then you really don't know what is going on.  If he doesn't have access to a  chronograph then he probly doesn't either.    

Why is he reloading for you and what will you do when he stops?   how much is he charging you for a box of say.... .357?  

A gun that doesn't shoot well is not necessarily worn out or not worth saving... it can be brand new with oversize lands/grooves... the chamber can be undersized..  lot of stuff that a proper reload will fix.  

I won't reload for people... besides being illegal... it is too much work.   I will let people shoot up as much of my ammo as they like tho when we go out shooting.   They generally do better with my guns and ammo than with their own and their factory loads.

If you are in doubt about anything I have said then ask your "guy".
lazs

[Mini D]

I just paid $38 for 1000 .357 (158 gr) and $45 for 1000 .40 (180 gr).  Both are jacketed... the .357 ball and the .40 flat ball.

And most match bullets might be cast, but they are also worked afterwards... basically, you have the same option with either depending on the amount of work you're willing to put in after the loading.

As far as you wipping out the stats again (Your 30 years is awfully impressive).... well... that's just you.  If you're trying to say that cast lead slugs don't lead to increased chance of jamming or unreliability, I'll simply take the stand that you haven't learned a thing in 30 years.

All-lead is definately cheapest... that's for sure.  But it requires an increased amount of cleaning and monitoring to ensure things keep working properly.  I'd rather avoid all lead and pay the extra $50 per year for jacketed.  When I start shooting match... that may change.

MiniD

[lazs2]

I don't care if you are impressed or not.  What I said is true and most of what you said is myth or outdated.    Revolvers don't jam.. there is no reason for increased jammin in autoloaders with cast slugs.  

in 44 and 45 the savings are much greater than 50 bucks a year.   Also... cast slugs are easier on the barrel than jacketed.   some cheap jacketed slugs (who made the cheap ones you bought?) have too much steel in the jacket and cause excessive bore wear...  have you ever miked jacketed slugs?  Replacing barrels on revolvers is a pain.

I am telling you that you will shoot my guns with my ammo better than you shot your own.   The 50$ is not the consideration.

you don't seem to shoot much in a year so I guess that finding someone to reload for you and hoping that they get lucky on the load that suits your gun is fine... you certainlyt won't wear out a barrel with your limited shooting in any case even with cheap jacketed slugs.  

for your shooting I woud recommend wolf ammo.   it will cost you about as much as your friends reloads and probly be more accurate.   The cases are steel so you just throw em away.   You can get .40 for about 5 bucks a box in bulk.

Remington and Winchester jacketed bullets are about 98 dollars a thousand in 44 and 45.   They are quality bullets.   less than half that for quality cast slugs.   Cast slugs will allways be half.

again... if I shot only 357 and .40 and then only a couple of thousand rounds a year... I would probly go wolf ammo or jacketed slugs.

Still... what is the actual velocity of the 158 grain jacketed slug in .357 and the 180's in .40?   the reason I ask is... those are on the heavy side for each caliber... heavy slugs is where cast bullets rule.    I would use jacketed in .357 for 110-140 grain and cast for 158 and above.... for .40 it would be jacketed for 150-160 and cast for 180 and above.    Unless you simply must have extreme high pressure loads to get that last few fps.... cast slugs create less pressure than jaclketed also.
lazs

[lazs2]

also... since you don't do your own loading and you don't shoot much..... and... you don't shoot many calibers...

How do you get off telling me I haven't learned much in 30 years?

Do you know anything about the ammo you are shooting?

If you think that lead slugs cause jamming or that they are not more accurate and easy on the gun then I would say that you have a long way to go to learn about handguns.   If you won't listen to someone who has done the work then you have an even longer learning curve ahead.
lazs

[Mini D]

Sorry lazs, but you're just pumping your chest right now.  I only shoot about twice a month, but usually shoot about 500 rounds per outing.  I don't have to reload because the person I go shooting with cannot sleep more than 3 hours a day and reloads to relax.  It works out well for me.  He's been doing it for about 40 years now... so he too had at least 30 years experience before I met him.  And... I shoot with him... he doesn't just load the ammo and hand it to me.

But I do shoot alot and I do pay attention to my weapons.  I have also learned alot in regards to cause and effect.

Sorry you think you're the **** and nobody else's oppinion matters.  Sorry you think that lead bullets chamber just as well as jacketed despite having to cite 30 years of experience to get it to work.  Sorry you read "keeping things working properly" to mean "jam"... then... well... you read whatever you want lazs.

MiniD