Author Topic: American workers vs "European" workers  (Read 1568 times)

Offline Frogm4n

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2003, 09:45:02 AM »
You do realize ripsnort that working yourself to death isnt better then living life. Don't let your puritan outlook on life interfer with what is really important. You work enough to live a happy life, and not all people need to have 3 cars and a house payment they can barely afford.

By the way, go on vacation to western europe one day and then tell me about the terrible life's they have to live.(england dosnt count)

Oh yea and watch as boeing moves  alot of the labor to china in the next 20 years.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2003, 09:50:59 AM by Frogm4n »

Offline SOB

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2003, 09:50:12 AM »
Great thread.  
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Offline beet1e

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2003, 09:54:48 AM »
Hehe - good thread. Rip - do you ever post any original thought, or do you only ever cut and paste? Just asking... :lol

I have lived & worked in the US and could have stayed indefinitely, but chose to come back here. A key factor in that decision (one of several) was the piss-poor US holiday entitlement. I got 2 weeks allowance - plus the usual public holidays. After I returned here I never had a permanent job (was freelance), so I could take holidays between work assignments, as well as taking a few weeks during an assignment. It all depends what you live for. I don't live for material possessions, but prefer to have more leisure time. I was amazed, working in the US, when one of my colleagues announced he was "going on vacation". I had visions of him jetting off to an exotic location for 2 weeks. The reality was very different - 4 days in Green Bay,Wisconsin. - LOL!

Since being back here, I have again worked for an American company, and then spent a couple of months working out of their Denver office. I can remember some of the American managers being gobsmacked when, in response to their announcement of "we need you to work the weekend" were told "sorry, I'm not available this weekend". They were even more red-faced when one English guy said, after being told his job was on the line on this issue, said: "So what. There was life before XYZ, and there'll be life after XYZ", XYZ being the name of the company.

The thing is about American companies is that they don't just want 40 hours a week out of you (which is 5 more than I preferred to work) but they also want a chunk of your life. They were slightly taken aback by the comings and goings of the British workers. There would be the Americans, beavering away at 8am... I preferred to come in at around 9:30 so I could miss the traffic, and perhaps leave later - say around 6pm. But "flexitime" is an unknown concept in America. Then there was all that BS about doing "Face Time" - hanging around the office as the managers left, to be seen working - showing enthusiasm, but not necessarily achieving anything. :rolleyes: Bollocks to that. I'd get my work done, and come and go as I pleased. Always have.

One thing I do agree with in that article, and that's the tedium of Christmas in the UK. In the US, Xmas is a single day. They don't have Boxing Day. New Year's Day is also a holiday, as it has been in England since 1974 - always was in Scotland.  But in England, the Xmas season drags on for 2 weeks. I hate that. So I used to bugger off to Tenerife for 2 weeks over Xmas & New Year, and escape all the commercialism and other crap at home.

Irwin Stelzer goes on to make some BS and outdated observations.
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Brits snack on tiny sandwiches taken out of refrigerators that barely house a small bottle of milk and a few daily necessities, while America's housewives shop less frequently because their refrigerators are close to walk-in size.
Dear me, he is behind the times. Back in the 60s and perhaps the 70s, he would have had a point. But it just so happens I am in the process of buying a new fridge freezer. The modern ones all stand about 6' tall or more. Here's a weblink showing the one I like - frost free, with a built in wine rack for the Chablis and Mouton Cadet. But this is far from top of range, and there are many others. My Mum has got a Hotpoint model - she's always had good taste. :)

Still, the article makes a good point about American service in hotels. I don't think I've ever been disappointed by an American hotel, and I'm really looking forward to staying at the Embassy Suites for the con next month.

The moral of this story is portrayed in an Aesop's fable. The one about the hungry dog who happens upon a well fed dog the other side of a fence. The well fed dog is bragging about his life and about the steaks he gets fed and had the hungry dog salivating. But the hungry dog then notices the mark on the other dog's neck - made as a result of being chained up every night. And the hungry dog thinks "F that, I'm off"...

... and the moral of the story: "Lean freedom is better than fat slavery".

Note the slightly Freudian use of the word "fat". :D:D:D
Oh, and my post is still shorter than that article. :lol

Offline SOB

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2003, 09:55:46 AM »
Now it's even better!  
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Offline ra

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2003, 09:56:41 AM »
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But "flexitime" is an unknown concept in America.

I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever been to the US.

Offline Fishu

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2003, 10:00:42 AM »
I'd say it's more about the culture...
Americans are heavy consumers, while europeans are more conserving.

Americans also have dirt cheap taxes, thats the thing I envy... although, I've had free schooling, still can have and got a cheap health care.
Hard to say which is better...  pay taxes and have a cheap health care or have "no" taxes and have things cheap, but pay heartily for education and health care. (unless the job offers health care insurance or whatever..)

Offline Ripsnort

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2003, 10:03:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
You do realize ripsnort that working yourself to death isnt better then living life. Don't let your puritan outlook on life interfer with what is really important. You work enough to live a happy life, and not all people need to have 3 cars and a house payment they can barely afford.
 


Couldn't agree more. Thats why I plan to work until 55, then retire. ;) (And I'm sure the house payment comment was directed at "an avg. American" ? Because mine is only 24% of of our income)

Offline Ripsnort

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2003, 10:07:30 AM »
Quote
But "flexitime" is an unknown concept in America.


My only requirement for hours is to put in 40 a week, doesn't matter what time or how.  I create my own schedule, whether it be at home or work.  Virtual office is a great thing.  All salary and most technical workers are offered this too.

Offline fd ski

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2003, 10:20:01 AM »
lets see.. blackberrys are making armericans more productive eh ?
Ok ladies, show of hands, how many of you has one ?

Yeah, i thought so.

And that's besides the whole "we're 7 centuries in terms of telecom wireless features behind europe" point.

Bush working vacation ? heheheh pleeeeeze. He meets with his advisors ? What for ? They make all the decisions anyway. Just send him the script !!! :)

Offline Replicant

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2003, 10:47:11 AM »
Hehe, being a civil servant I get 30 days leave, 8 public/bank holidays, 2 1/2 privilege days (being crown servant) and also any days I accumulate through working flexi-time (it is time off in lieu of hours worked mind).  6 months full sick pay, further 6 months half sick pay.  I get lots of days off, but the pay really sucks, really really sucks!

Not all my previous jobs were as cushy though, a precision engineering firm I work for allowed NO holiday and NO sick days - you had to work a year in advance.  This is now illegal! :eek:
NEXX

Offline GRUNHERZ

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2003, 11:07:44 AM »
Well America is more productive than Europe and is much better at providing opportuinties to enterprenurial, hard working and clever individuals. Nobody can argue with that and certainly the immigration statistics support that. However there is no doubt that Europe can be a fine place to spend your vacation dollars..  ;)

Offline beet1e

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Full version of that fable by Aesop
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2003, 11:17:49 AM »
Managed to find it on the web. Kind of sums up the situation nicely. Hmmm... thought America was all about "freedom" :confused:  Here it is, C&P -





The House Dog And The Wolf: Once upon a time, as the full moon was shining down upon the land, a thin and starving wolf came upon a well-fed, healthy house dog, busy guarding his owner’s house. "How is it that you look so well?" the struggling wolf asked the dog, amazed by his robust appearance during these times of hardship. "The wilderness is especially harsh this year, I can hardly find a thing to eat."

"My dear cousin wolf," the house dog said, "the problem lies with the way you live. It’s not easy to make ends meet, without a steady job."

"And you have that?" the wolf asked, incredulously.

"You bet," said the house dog. "I guard my master’s house each night, frightening away the thieves; and for that, he feeds me well. As you can see. Just as much as that, I can always be sure of a roof above my head, whenever it rains or snows, while you - you must suffer so terribly in the cold!"

"It’s not easy," the wolf admitted.

"Well - why not join me?" the house dog asked, generously inviting the wolf to join the household. "I could use a helper, and I’m sure my master would take good care of you."

Excited and grateful at this new opportunity, the wolf began to follow the dog into the house, when, all of a sudden, he noted a strange mark upon the house dog’s neck, and unable to repress his curiosity, finally asked him: "Dear friend - forgive me for asking - but how did you come by that mark upon your neck?"

"That? Oh, that’s nothing," the house dog assured him. "Just the mark left behind by the collar I wear during the day."

"Collar?" gasped the wolf.

"Certainly," said the dog. "You see, my master keeps me chained up by day, for I am such a good guard dog that he is a little wary of me, himself. But it doesn’t matter, I’m free to roam about at night as I patrol his property."

But at this, the wolf suddenly seemed to lose interest in his new job.

"Hey - wait a minute - where are you going?!" asked the house dog, as the thin and hungry wolf turned away from him, and slowly trotted off, back towards the unforgiving forest from which he’d come. "The house is this way!"

But the wolf only called back, as he disappeared among the trees: "Good-bye, my poor, poor friend. Enjoy the fine food your master gives you, and the warmth of your home. As for me, I’d rather endure hunger than wear your chains!"

Application: Lean Freedom Is Better Than Fat Slavery.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2003, 11:21:50 AM »
So paying enormous European taxes to subsidize unproductive lazy assoles is freedom?  How much tax do you pay on gasoline? How about the scandanavians, how much did that new 1.8 liter car cost you $60,000, $65,000?

Offline Udie

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2003, 11:24:40 AM »
I haven't had more than a 4 day vacation in over 3 years. ( I don't count the month in rehab, that was more stressful than work!)  I play hard on the weekends though :)  I can't imagine taking a month off of work.   Seem like you'd get replaced like that, unless everybody was off for that month.  I get 2 weeks sick and 2 weeks vacation,  in 2 more years it goes up to 3 weeks each.  It's not an entitlement though,  it's what the job offered and part of the reason I took it.   Why should anybody be expected to pay anybody for not working? :confused:

Offline ra

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American workers vs "European" workers
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2003, 11:24:45 AM »
Quote
Application: Lean Freedom Is Better Than Fat Slavery.

Lean Slavery is the worst of all.   And socialism is the ultimate dog collar.