American workers vs "European" workers

[miko2d]

The law of diminishing returns.
 The subjective value of product (reward) of every additional hour of work gets lower.
 At the same time subjective value of every additionall sacrificed hour of leisure gets higher.
 Once they become equal in person's subjective judjement, he stops working in favor of leisure.

 The fact that most americans work more and enjoy less leisure compared to europeans just means that work is more rewarding.

 The european's work is less rewarding for europeans because they get taxed on the outcome of their labor and then taxed on the value of the products they buy.
 So a plumber has to spend 2-3 hours earnings to buy 1 hour worth of his own services.


 As any economically uninformed sttistics the breakdown of work/leisure for europeans is totally misleading if not an outright lie.

 Due to government tax wedge between a produces and consumer, a plumber has to spend 3-hours earnings to buy 1 hour worth of a carpenter's services who makes as much as he does.

 Not being prificient with carpentry, a plumber could do the same amount of carpentry work in 2.5 hours. Under those conditions it does not make sence for them to use division of labor.
 Why work 3 days for 1 day of carpenter's labor if a plumber can take 3 days of vacation, do the work in 2.5 days and have 1/2 day of leisure as pure profit?

 That's right, folks. A lot of that vacation time europeans enjoy is wasted on do-it-yourself projects that an american would just hire a professional for.

 Actually the same process is present in US where the cost of taxes and government regulations make it unprofitable for a person to hire a professional with the proceers of his own labor, but not as bad as in Europe - yet...

 miko

[Siaf__csf]

Well, that's partly true - except that the situation is totally reversed should you get in a car accident or (god forbid in the US) become permanently ill and require constant hospitalisation / care. US citizens have to pay huge amounts just to get by in everyday life such as taking kids to school - even the university level is free in some european countries. Feeding them at school, taking them to dentist or even basic vaccinations easily costs the difference in taxes. Of course all above things mean there will be a huge social gap between families. If one of the parents is unable to work, the social expense burden can prohibit the children from getting a university education for example - again something that won't happen in europe.

All those things most of us 'overtaxed' europeans take for granted.

Money aside, I value personal free time far more than material things money can buy. Life is not enjoyable if I have to focus on making money at the expense of living my life.

I'm appauled at the idea of working long hours at a constant rate. I have to admit I'm guilty of doing that, too, but only on rare occasions. Primarily I'm focusing 40% of my energy to work life and minimum of 60% to my real life.

I couldn't care less if I made millions, drove a porsche and owned several mansions if I didn't have time to enjoy free time activities.

It's not worth it if you don't have time to enjoy it.

Oh and Miko, I've never worked on my vacation - it wouldn't be a vacation if I did.

[beet1e]

I agree with Siaf_csf, above^. That's how I feel about it too. I don't have children of my own, but both my nieces have had a state education - my brother has not had to pay a penny. Now the elder niece is just starting at Uni. Her accommodation will have to be paid for, but I don't know about tuition fees. I never went to Uni myself, so it's a grey area for me.

An English friend of mine who works for a company in Fort Smith, AR was saying how one of his colleagues was having to dig deep into his pockets along with all the other parents at his kid's school to pay for school facilities - I think it was a gymnasium, but I'll check and post back. The point being that it was hundreds if not thousands of $ that was being asked for!  The school Principal's policy was to "hit up" the parents.

Miko said

That's right, folks. A lot of that vacation time europeans enjoy is wasted on do-it-yourself projects that an american would just hire a professional for.

I've never been a DIY man, apart from doing a few electricals - outside lighting and the like. I did those because I enjoyed doing it. For everything else I hired a professional. Why? Because I earned far more than those guys charged, and it didn't make economic sense to do it myself, given that as a freelance I was paid only for the days I worked. Much better to keep the money coming in, and use a small portion of it to pay the decorator etc.

[Tuomio]

Originally posted by ra
What's wrong with the food in Finland?

Its expensive, except potatoes. In EU Finland gets in top3 when food prizes are compared.

I hate the fact, that in socialism money spending gets HEAVILY biased towards the people that doesent actually earn the money. This goes for having kids, if you cant afford to support one kid's school or insurance, then why do you make one? Or more likely, why do you make 3 of them? Your family becomes a resource hog, you make small amount of money and take the remainder from the rest of us. That money is away from their personal spending, which usually means it takes away their potential free time. Is it fair?

I have nothing against society giving basic support, meaning bread, basic medical care and warm shelter. Also student loans are good, they should be extended to lend for the actual schooling costs.

[trolla]

Originally posted by miko2d
The law of diminishing returns.
 The subjective value of product (reward) of every additional hour of work gets lower.
 At the same time subjective value of every additionall sacrificed hour of leisure gets higher.
 Once they become equal in person's subjective judjement, he stops working in favor of leisure.

 The fact that most americans work more and enjoy less leisure compared to europeans just means that work is more rewarding.

 The european's work is less rewarding for europeans because they get taxed on the outcome of their labor and then taxed on the value of the products they buy.
 So a plumber has to spend 2-3 hours earnings to buy 1 hour worth of his own services.


 As any economically uninformed sttistics the breakdown of work/leisure for europeans is totally misleading if not an outright lie.

 Due to government tax wedge between a produces and consumer, a plumber has to spend 3-hours earnings to buy 1 hour worth of a carpenter's services who makes as much as he does.

 Not being prificient with carpentry, a plumber could do the same amount of carpentry work in 2.5 hours. Under those conditions it does not make sence for them to use division of labor.
 Why work 3 days for 1 day of carpenter's labor if a plumber can take 3 days of vacation, do the work in 2.5 days and have 1/2 day of leisure as pure profit?

 That's right, folks. A lot of that vacation time europeans enjoy is wasted on do-it-yourself projects that an american would just hire a professional for.

 Actually the same process is present in US where the cost of taxes and government regulations make it unprofitable for a person to hire a professional with the proceers of his own labor, but not as bad as in Europe - yet...

 miko

Well that seems like bullhsite for me miko, i was working since i was 18 and go injured badly in my work 3 years ago (39 years old now), now i get a new education for free ( 60 % of my old pay and res is low intrest studyloan) cause of my socalled high tax I paid the years i was working.

That is a part of the socalled "kommi" country im living in I guess.
Taxes might suck but for once i needed it

[ra]

Originally posted by Tuomio
I hate the fact, that in socialism money spending gets HEAVILY biased towards the people that doesent actually earn the money. This goes for having kids, if you cant afford to support one kid's school or insurance, then why do you make one? Or more likely, why do you make 3 of them? Your family becomes a resource hog, you make small amount of money and take the remainder from the rest of us. That money is away from their personal spending, which usually means it takes away their potential free time. Is it fair?

I have nothing against society giving basic support, meaning bread, basic medical care and warm shelter. Also student loans are good, they should be extended to lend for the actual schooling costs.

In America you would be called a racsist/elitist/greedy, heartless bastage.  I know this from personal experience.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by miko2d
The law of diminishing returns.
 The subjective value of product (reward) of every additional hour of work gets lower.
 At the same time subjective value of every additionall sacrificed hour of leisure gets higher.
 Once they become equal in person's subjective judjement, he stops working in favor of leisure.

 The fact that most americans work more and enjoy less leisure compared to europeans just means that work is more rewarding.

 The european's work is less rewarding for europeans because they get taxed on the outcome of their labor and then taxed on the value of the products they buy.
 So a plumber has to spend 2-3 hours earnings to buy 1 hour worth of his own services.


 As any economically uninformed sttistics the breakdown of work/leisure for europeans is totally misleading if not an outright lie.

 Due to government tax wedge between a produces and consumer, a plumber has to spend 3-hours earnings to buy 1 hour worth of a carpenter's services who makes as much as he does.

 Not being prificient with carpentry, a plumber could do the same amount of carpentry work in 2.5 hours. Under those conditions it does not make sence for them to use division of labor.
 Why work 3 days for 1 day of carpenter's labor if a plumber can take 3 days of vacation, do the work in 2.5 days and have 1/2 day of leisure as pure profit?

 That's right, folks. A lot of that vacation time europeans enjoy is wasted on do-it-yourself projects that an american would just hire a professional for.

 Actually the same process is present in US where the cost of taxes and government regulations make it unprofitable for a person to hire a professional with the proceers of his own labor, but not as bad as in Europe - yet...

 miko

Sometimes I like what you write, a lot...  But of course waaay over their heads..