Base distances

[Hollywood]

I am having a little frustration with a certain type of situation that seems to crop up.  There I am flying my 109 & I see a p51 2k above so I stay low in his blind spot & start chasing him.  Eventually he spots me & the chase is on.  First he tries to climb/run horizontal & I ever so slowly catch up to him.  Then he turns me a few times & slows me down, undaunted I continue.  I finally get him coe & he dives a few times, eventually we reach the deck & I start to see a kill decal for my plane shaping up.  Then I flip open the map just to be sure & durnit all if the pony hasn't found a base to run to.  What's more I've blown all my fuel on one unsuccessful chase. This happens even when I start chasing deep in my own territory without an nme base in sight.  I think it would be much more satisfactory & take away a little of the p51 ubberness if the bases were significantly further apart.  What say you all?  Also why does a pony climb so well compared to my 109?  I can't even lose it in a spiral climb or even any kind of straight ahead climb be it gradual or steep.  Is this a correct fm thing? (sorry I know I hate fm nitpicking too)

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It's a good day for flying!

    General Chuck Yeager

[Minotaur]

Hollywood;

Laughably; it sounds like a few 51 (me) vs 109 (maybe you) fights I have had.

IMO, the 109 and 51 are pretty evenly matched, and the 109 is very dangerous to a 51.  

I also suspect having bases farther apart will tip the scale to a 51's advantage due to much superior range.  The 51 could play "Cat and Mouse" longer. I would think that would be more frustrating not less.

I try to win my fights using my planes strengths and not allowing my opponent to use the strengths of their plane against me.   In this case High Speed Handling vs Climb / Acceration.

I will generally position myself in these duals to never allow the 109 to use its vastly superior acceleration against me.  A Low-E CO-E 51 on the deck is an easy mark to a 109. (Or about any other plane     )  

If I decide to go Low-E CO-E you can bet that I am close to help, be it base ack or friendly fighters.  Otherwise I will stay fast enough that I can be confident that the 109 can not turn with me.  I will be a dot very quickly, and will not give the 109 any chance from the get go.

I am not sure if this tactic is honorable or not.  I do not really care.      I am sure that I have grown tired of being the victim of many victories.  

I push the fight when I feel I have a significant advantage.  I don't get many 109's either, they are a "Tough Nut to Crack".    

Hopefully, this will give you some insight into at least one strategy.  

Good Luck to You!    

Mino

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 12-02-1999).]

[Fishu]

109G10 reminds me of warbirds 109G6, when spit 9 outclimbs, outmaneuvers and all other possible advantages... seems bit undermodelled there, and in AH 109G10 reminds me of WB G6, spits can have a chance to outclimb and so on..
About P51s climb rate, i've been climbing steadily 3800-4200fpm up to 20k, does NOT seem right for that plane.

[TT]

 Is ubberness a word. This is fast becomeing a one plane sim.

[jarbo]

I think that a larger scale map would be beneficial.  It adds a little more fight isolation to the picture.  I think that the "in flight radar" also detracts from the sneak attack kill  (hell icons hurt this enough) which was responsible for a fair amount of fighter vs. fighter kills.

Jarbo
of the Buccaneers

[Minotaur]

TT, Fishu;

I honestly have not noticed any effect that either of you describe.  I am confused.  

I see a good mix of planes in the air and I don't climb my 51 anywhere near the numbers you describe.

Alas; maybe you are correct.  This Sim does need an "Ubber Goober Plane".  

[ The Ubber Goober Mk IXLA5109 Mod c.205A8 ]  (Sorry, I could not locate a picture)

This plane will never get you shot down.  This plane will always have double digit kill sorties.  This plane will make the pilot fly smarter and better than any oponent they might encounter.  This plane will have guns the size of Oak Trees and shells the size of Buffalo.  This plane will have an onboard oil refinery complete with mid-air oil wells, and never run out of fuel.  This plane will never warp, but have "Automatic Warp Detectors" for all other planes.  This plane will send out pre-recorded insults, always containing the word "Dweeb" to lesser players flying in lesser planes.  This plane of course will be flown by every player in the game except for "Undies Bunched Up in Crack" players.  This plane will be loved by all those that fly it and by all those that don't and they will love everything about it and never whine about any shortcomings that don't exist anyway.  This plane will, of course, be painted in a custom color scheme selected by the beloved player who flies it.  This plane will dispense high quality mind altering drugs and copious quantities of chilled alcoholic beverages.

Like it?    

Mino

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 12-03-1999).]

[Thorns]

Fishu, you got Jato assist on that P-51?  I can get only get 3000-3200fpm climb out of a pony.  Is the pony an ubber(lol) plane?  The pony seems to carry alot of gas, but dies rather quickly if not used properly.  Your 190A8 has 780 cannon rounds, and I think that makes it a "better" ubber plane than the pony.  Enlarging the map will only get the La5 and 205 pilots mad.....waaa, they will need drop tanks ??

Butchawk(Thorns_Musketeer)

[Laika]

Dont enlarge the map !! I have to load 75% fuel to go hunting in my La 1 base away and if I want to get some alt I'll take 100%  

Hollywood,
I hear you about the 109. I dont fly the P51 in AH much but a couple of nights ago I did take a pony for a spin and got into 1v1 with a 109, he started with a slight alt advantage and seemed to know the right moves in the German iron, he tried to work me over and I evaded until I managed to get on his 6 and he went for the spiral climb, IMO he should have left me for dead with the seperation between us. I followed him but climbed shallow until I was under him and then zoomed, as I neared the stall he was about D400 above me I then worked him over. I was down to about 30% fuel and at no time did I feel the 109 had a climb advantage over me   ....

Pyro please see the 109 gets looked at when the FM's get some tweaking.    

[Pongo]

I dont think that there is a good mix of planes in the Air. I am not shure that there should be. There are far more poneys than any other fighter. Second would be spits by quite a margin. Then down there some where is FW at a bout 1/5th the number of the Ponyes. I am starting to see more LAs (but I saw none before) Maybee one or tow 109s per night and the same for 205s.
It might be that I fly at arround the same time every night and see the same guys with the same preferences.....
I would much rather fight ponys than spits anyway.

[Hollywood]

I do agree about the fuel being a problem for some planes if the map were enlarged.  Maybe making fuel consumption 2x normal rather than 3x would help there, maybe this should be configurable with the arena if it isn't already.  It would also increase the probability of one vs. one fights such as Jarbo mentioned which would be good I would think.  Food for thought for future map designers anyways.

About potentially unfair tactics.  I don't think any tactic is unfair if it would be possible using real world planes or exploits features of the map as it exists or fms as they exist.  If it is exploiting a bug or unintended "feature" that hasn't had the time to be fixed yet then it is unfair.  An unfair tactic would the the ackchute that, ahem, some, ahem, people have used (nodding towards offending party & whistling)  .  Really I don't blame anyone for that one either, if I came up with a clever trick I wouldn't be able to resist trying it out at least, ahem, once, ahem  .  One good thing about this game is no matter how unfair somebody feels something is, eventually the map will reset & it will be a new ballgame.

I feel a bit uncomfortable offering criticisms as constructive as they may be because I think the boys & girls at HTC have made a fine product & critiquing it feels a bit like critiquing the Mona Lisa or something so I hope my commments are helpful.
 
Oh and Minotaur, your uberplane, lol.