Author Topic: Free Health Care for All Americans? (Read 2332 times)

Dowding · « **Reply #90 on:** October 01, 2003, 05:54:53 AM »

That's a huge amount of money to be paying every month. Are any of these insurance companies 'not-for-profit'?

I have private health insurance as part of my job - not sure how much it costs the company, but I'm pretty certain it's less than £1000 a year. But of course, I also have the NHS, so mabe that's why health costs are lower. I get free prescriptions for my epilepsy medication (prescriptions are flat rate at £6 a throw otherwise).

My income tax and national insurance is much less than those health insurance payments you mentioned, but then we are taxed more heavily in other areas. Swings and roundabout I guess - it would be difficult to gauge the true tax burden.

lazs2 · « **Reply #91 on:** October 01, 2003, 08:28:37 AM »

Our city pays 500 per month per family for medical and dental (that's your teeth or lack thereof for our britgish friends) ... I am single so put about 300 of it into a retirement plan.

I have paid into medicare for years and will get it at 62... my cityu currently pays medical for 2 years after retirement so I would have to pay for anything between 52 and 60 say if I retired at 52.. contracts are coming up and we may get a better retirement plan for medical... at worst... my portion on cola would be a couple hundred bucks a month till medicare kicked in.
lazs

popeye · « **Reply #92 on:** October 01, 2003, 09:04:07 AM »

Lazs, if you are going to depend on Medicare, you better start voting for those wussy Democrat girly men. The Bush gang plans to "starve the beast" until there isn't a dime left for Social Security, Medicare, and such wimpy programs.

Udie · « **Reply #93 on:** October 01, 2003, 09:26:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by capt. apathy
ok, how about this scenario. you and your wife both work, minimum wage, no benefits, one kid. you work hard, you pay your bills, but after childcare expenses you have no money left to pay for personal health insurance (if the cobra payments I had to pay are any indication, the premiums would be just about equal to a months take home pay at minimum wage, and when not in a group policy it's more)

now your kid gets sick, requiring long term medical care. now when it flares up really bad they do have to treat you (just to stabilize your condition, they don't have to heal you) at the ER.
so instead of missing a couple hours work to take your kid in to a $50 DR appointment (DR's and clinics are not required to treat you if you can't prove ability to pay), you get to miss a whole days work so you can wait around the ER, get treated by a DR who treats you like crap because you have no insurance, and then you get to owe several hundred for the ER visit.

since you have no way of getting regular care, you can't stabilize the kids condition, no health maintenance at all, so whenever the condition gets severe you do the ER thing again. you can't schedule these attacks so you can't ask ahead of time for time off to take the kid to the DR, just calls from the ER telling your boss that you are a no-show for work yet again (I wonder how long he'll put up with that?).

plus instead of the more affordable office visit where the DR is familiar with the patients condition, and understands whats normal for your kid and what has changed. you get the resident de' jour who spends as little time as possible with your kid (you are after all in the ER for a long-term illness, ER is for emergencies and besides he's got paying customers waiting), they don't have time to go through the whole case history and so they just do the bare minimum to stabilize the kid and send you out the door. maybe if your lucky he'll write a prescription you can't afford to fill.

and of course as the condition goes on without regular medical attention the attacks get worse and more frequent. so the costs goes up, more visits, more time off work, maybe you lose your job because you’re so damn unreliable.

2 episodes requiring minimum treatment at the ER will just about wipe out a months worth of minimum wage pay.

these are the people that get labeled dead beats and lazy. they are not at all uncommon. was a time in my life I was one of them(only it was the wife who was sick so I lost an income plus had to take care of the kid, still work my job, and pay for the treatment, but I had my family backing me up, loaning me money when needed, taking care of my son while I was at work.)

but a lot of these people have no safety net, no family to guarantee that you'll always have a roof and food if you need it. these people actually have more stability if they quit working and go on welfare.

it's wrong that we take care of people who do nothing, but let those who are willing to work fall through the cracks.

it's these people, the working poor(not those who can afford there own insurance or those who don't work, they have medical care), those are the ones we're talking about when we talk gov't health care.

so if we are already paying healthcare for those disabled or on welfare, plus we pay (through higher medical rates, or insurance premiums) for the ER visits when the working poor default on these bills (which is generally much more expensive than if we could provide them scheduled clinic visits), plus we pay all the medical bills, housing, & food costs to those who can't afford to work any more. how much is it costing us to go on the way we are?

If my child got a disease I would do what I learned from my step father who took care of my handicap step brother. I'd file for SS and take my child to the Texas Childrens Medical Center in Houston. They saved my brothers life many many times when he was a child. I can count on 0 fingers how much money that cost the family. It's already out there, if people are too ignorant to go find it maybe somebody should tell them instead of trying to nationalize the industry.....

MrLars · « **Reply #94 on:** October 01, 2003, 11:08:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding
$762 a month for health insurance?

Yep, the package does include Delta Dental though.

The only relief in sight is if there is a reduction in coverage, at our age that isn't an option.

Wanker · « **Reply #95 on:** October 01, 2003, 11:42:03 AM »

Just to clarify again for those who read the thread title but not my original post, I'm not advocating FREE healthcare, but something along the lines of the 80/20 plan that a lot of us get now.

Wanker · « **Reply #96 on:** October 01, 2003, 11:43:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
Our city pays 500 per month per family for medical and dental (that's your teeth or lack thereof for our britgish friends) ... I am single so put about 300 of it into a retirement plan.

I have paid into medicare for years and will get it at 62... my cityu currently pays medical for 2 years after retirement so I would have to pay for anything between 52 and 60 say if I retired at 52.. contracts are coming up and we may get a better retirement plan for medical... at worst... my portion on cola would be a couple hundred bucks a month till medicare kicked in.
lazs

Lazs, are you a city employee? Belonging to a union, by chance?

LOL, please Lord, let this be true.

lazs2 · « **Reply #97 on:** October 01, 2003, 02:37:30 PM »

banana... I have worked for the city for 11 years. I was a contractor for for a dozen years before that. Construction worker before that (all non union).. I am not eligible for union because of my position.

pop... Let em gut it... I only go to the doctors in an ambulance anyhow. If they do gut it tho... I wish they would quit taking the money out of my check as soon as possible.
lazs

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #98 on:** October 01, 2003, 02:43:19 PM »

Quote

If my child got a disease I would do what I learned from my step father who took care of my handicap step brother.

So because your stepfather found out a way to deal with the problem, the 99000 others who

a) live in another state
b) aren't as educated about 'free' options out there
c) might have a condition that stops them from even doing research

should not get a medical care similar to several smaller and 'poorer' countries that seem to afford it well, but not the big ol' usa?

From my point of view it all boils down to narrowsightness and selfishness.

'Why should I pay something I don't like to benefit for someone else?' - well that's called a (modern) society. You should have lived back in the wild west when every man was for themselves and barbershops had the role of hospitals.

Your country affords to have a space program. It affords nukes and aircraft carriers. It could afford a government subsidised medical service - but it seem's the majority of US citizens trust they'll never need the help themselves.

FYI every country (ex-russia etc. excluded) offers private side healthcare despite of public free healthcare.

That leaves you the freedom to choose - go to the public side where you'll have less individual (but usually very competent) care - OR - pay to go to a private clinic.

Capt apathy made a very good post. ~~At least someone here knows something about real life.~~

Wanker · « **Reply #99 on:** October 01, 2003, 03:10:49 PM »

Quote

Construction worker before that (all non union)..

What kind of construction? I'm the son of a union pipefitter.

Udie · « **Reply #100 on:** October 01, 2003, 03:13:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Siaf__csf

So because your stepfather found out a way to deal with the problem, the 99000 others who

a) live in another state

Social Security is a federal program not a state program.

b) aren't as educated about 'free' options out there

Well ya know there are stupid people out there not much you can do about that, unless your a liberal educator then you can make somehow make them more stupid.

c) might have a condition that stops them from even doing research

They would most likely be covered by MC/SS if they had a condition that kept them from doing research (i'm assuming that it would keep them from doing about anything)

should not get a medical care similar to several smaller and 'poorer' countries that seem to afford it well, but not the big ol' usa?

You don't know what your talking about. The USA has the BEST medical care on the planet. The county hospital I had surgery at when I was 21 is Ben Taub in Houston. At the time (probably now too) it was rated as the VERY BEST trauma center in the world. But ya know what? if ya went in there with a broken arm you could end up waiting for over 10 hours before you're seen by a doctor. I've had friends who waited that long there, but hey! it was free.

From my point of view it all boils down to narrowsightness and selfishness.

Thankfully your point of view has no bearing on the laws of the USA.

'Why should I pay something I don't like to benefit for someone else?' - well that's called a (modern) society. You should have lived back in the wild west when every man was for themselves and barbershops had the role of hospitals.

It's not called a modern society it's called extortion or just plain thievery and is the direct opposite ideal that this nation was created on.

Your country affords to have a space program. It affords nukes and aircraft carriers. It could afford a government subsidised medical service - but it seem's the majority of US citizens trust they'll never need the help themselves.

Sure, but when I look at the quality of care in socialist countries medical systems compaired to here I think "why the hell would we want that?" Why do we have Canadians coming to America for treatment? Why did I always hear about people coming to Houston from all over the world, oh yeah because we had the best doctors in the world in Houston.

FYI every country (ex-russia etc. excluded) offers private side healthcare despite of public free healthcare.

good for them

That leaves you the freedom to choose - go to the public side where you'll have less individual (but usually very competent) care - OR - pay to go to a private clinic.

Unless I chose not to have them take my money huh? No diferent than somebody robbing me at gunpoint to pay for their moms dentist bill.

At least someone here knows something about real life.

Yes some of us do. Maybe one day the rest of you will get a clue....

lazs2 · « **Reply #101 on:** October 02, 2003, 08:40:50 AM »

banana... started out as a laboror and went to painter and plasterer and hod carrier (if you don't know you don't wanna know) I became a general and then a painting contractor... I did mostly commercial wallcoverings like banks, hospitals office buildings, hotels, casinos.]

This might have helped in my present job... I am a city emplyee but.... I am on enterprise funds... I do my own budget that is seperate from the general fund (in theory)... Other cities around me have privatized so I am in the possition to have to "bid" for my and my peoples jobs. I have to prove I can do a better job for the money than the private companies taking runs on me.

Bad part is... they only come after the small cities like mine.. the large cities are much more wasteful but they have powerful unions so the citizens get taxed more for less.
lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #102 on:** October 02, 2003, 08:43:27 AM »

Oh.. I pretended to be a pipefitter at a naval base for 14 months... ran crew and everything... the guy I rode with tought me the trade on the 40 minute drive to and from work.... Not knowing what you are doing around a whole bunch of guys that do can be stressfull. lucky for me they were all pretty instituionalized and lazy.
lazs