Author Topic: Setup for Friday, October 3, 2003  (Read 1484 times)

Offline Tuck

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Setup for Friday, October 3, 2003
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2003, 03:23:42 PM »
God knows i'm not a pac fan, but this one looks better than the others.  looking forward to giving it a go.

hey eagler (my hero), would ya mind if i stole your av from ya?  or do i have to go dig one up on my own?  hehe  (big republican here, ya know.)

Offline Dennis

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Setup for Friday, October 3, 2003
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2003, 03:45:13 PM »
Here ya go, Tuck.  



Splash1

Offline Tuck

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Setup for Friday, October 3, 2003
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2003, 03:52:08 PM »
4 more wars, eh?

i have no problem with that....but that's for a thread in the officer's thingie.  :p

Offline Eagler

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Setup for Friday, October 3, 2003
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2003, 04:26:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tuck
God knows i'm not a pac fan, but this one looks better than the others.  looking forward to giving it a go.

hey eagler (my hero), would ya mind if i stole your av from ya?  or do i have to go dig one up on my own?  hehe  (big republican here, ya know.)


sure tuck go ahead - I just shrunk a bumber sticker from
 www.georgebush.com to make it
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline Slash27

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Setup for Friday, October 3, 2003
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2003, 06:45:51 PM »
u have the only flying A6M (foreground)

 There are now more A6Ms airworthy with more being restored. I had a link to a list of A6M projects. Ill see if I can find it.

Offline Batz

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Get your F4u fix
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2003, 11:32:58 PM »

Offline scJazz

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Setup for Friday, October 3, 2003
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2003, 09:16:13 AM »
OK what can I say about this setup. Hmmmmm as an Allied only flier some days it just doesn't pay to get out of the hanger. I got lots of practice yesterday in all the gun solution spoiling manuvers. I made TimRas and Kigjo work for the honor of blowing my P40E out of the sky in their Zeke. Happily next week the whole art-of-not-getting-shot-out-of-the-sky lessons will be fresh in my mind which should make me a difficult target when I get a plane that works.

I really don't like the tweak done to the SBDs and A20s. They are set so they can only earn Bomber perk points. The Attack button doesn't work. This is going to hose my Attack rank pretty nicely until I can earn the perks for a P38. It will probably take awhile since unlike EddieK I wasn't lucky enough to run into some of the newer (greener than fresh wood) pilots in KI67s and earn 6.67 perks in a single sortie.

Eddie and others asked the same question several times yesterday. Just how did the Allies manage to win considering just how viciously horrible their aircraft were? The answer is of course Indigo. For those who aren't familiar with it (probably no one in this group of WW2 experts), Indigo was the main cryptosystem used by the Empire of Japan. It has several offshoots but each of the flavors of Indigo share the same roots. To put it simply the fact that the US cracked Indigo long before the war began allowed it to work out favorable conditions for engagements. Even P40s could manage to shoot down Zekes when the odds were 3:1 or even 4:1. What would occur goes something like this...

Intercepts show that a major Nip attack would launch at X time along Y path with target Z. To prevent the disclosure of the fact that the US had broken Indigo an observation plane would be dispatched to "accidently" run across the strike group. After establishing this accidental detection a major US strike force would pounce the Nips. The odds were always hideously unfavorable to the Nips. Allied aircraft would be waiting several thousand feet above them on full fuel tanks when the Nips were stuck down low and slow trying to conserve fuel. Many times the Allies would withdraw critical equipment from the target and allow the IJN/IJAF to hit the now worthless target just so they wouldn't have any ammo either. With odds of 3:1 and in this vulnerable state BLAM no more Imperial Japanese strike group. Repeat as necessary with object lessons such as those found in the Battle of Midway and the US has the time to build aircraft that actually work and lay waste to the nascent dreams of Imperialism Japanese style.

Offline Squire

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Setup for Friday, October 3, 2003
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2003, 09:36:15 AM »
"The odds were always hideously unfavorable to the Nips"

Really? At Pearl Harbor, Phillipines, Wake, Coral Sea, Midway, Gudalcanal, Singapore, CBI, Darwin 1943, unfavorable how?

"Allied aircraft would be waiting several thousand feet above them on full fuel tanks when the Nips were stuck down low and slow trying to conserve fuel"

Again, what battle was that? I read Major Foss's accounts of the Guadalcanal campaign, he doesn't mention any of that. He seems to remember it as a hard fought camapaign for some inexplicable reason. Did INTEL help the air war?  of course it did, when it could, but you present it like it was a pre ordained kabuki dance with everybody knowing their parts in advance. Hardly!

As for the crappy Allied a/c well, try fighting a P-38 in a Ki-43, or a F4U or F6F in a Zero. Again, an overgeneralised statement. Some were dogs, like the P-39, and some had no equal, like the P-38.

P-40s fought the IJN, against the odds and sometimes came out the better, sometimes not, (just like the CT), they were surely not the only allied fighter used in the PAC, however.

"(probably no one in this group of WW2 experts)"

Gee whiz mister, shucks, thanks for stopping bye...lol.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2003, 09:59:33 AM by Squire »
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Offline eddiek

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Setup for Friday, October 3, 2003
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2003, 09:59:06 AM »
Jazz, I didn't tweak anything.
The "ATTACK" button should work.  I didn't do anything special with this setup other than perk the P-38 and limit it to two or three bases, perk the Ki-61 and limit it to two bases, and eliminate the naval aspect by making all fleets rook and moving them to the far corner of the map.

I told ya yesterday while we were flying in the same area I felt the P-40E was outclassed as a dogfighter against the Zero hordes we were facing.  I still feel that way, though there are others who are adamnant that the P-40E outclasses even the A6M5.......funny thing is, ya don't see them in one, trying to take on a Zero one on one, or a gaggle of 'em.
I guess it all boils down to tactics......TimRas, Storch, and others were doing pretty well when I was there later, bagging several Zeroes while I watched from the cockpit of a P-38.  I confess they are probably LOTS better than I am at AH, as all I can achieve in the P-40E is a lot of floundering around and trying to dive away.  The P-40 bleeds E even faster than a Jug (which I thought bled E like no other plane I had ever seen), so your opportunities to strike and get the kill are rare.  That is, unless the Zero pilot is inexperienced or you have numbers on your side.
WMaker1 schooled me and two others yesterday, he in an A6M5, me in a P-38 and two other guys in P-40's.  To put it bluntly, he flat outflew all three of us and was untouchable.
Any speed advantage the USAAF is more than matched by the superior maneuverability of the A6M's.  
In a P-40, ya gotta (unfortunately) take off from a base at least a sector away from where you want to fight, grab alt, and hope like heck you are above the Zeroes when you meet them.  Otherwise, you have little recourse but to dive away or keep going straight and don't turn even a smidge.........once the Zero has reversed course, he takes a while to get up to your speed again.

My problem is, and has always been, I tend to be too aggressive and try to turn with the Zeroes, Nikis, and Ki-61's and end up DEAD because of it.  
Keep your speed up, try to get some alt under yer wings, and don't turn too hard in the P-40.  At 250mph and up, you can compete with the Japanese planes, well, at least the Zeroes.  Below that, and you give them a big advantage again as they simply fly rings around a low speed P-40 OR P-38.
If you find yourself in a fight with a Ki-61 in a P-40, you will find he has E management problems too, just not as bad as yours.  If you try to dive away, he can stay with you and maintain high speed control, unlike the A6M's.

Offline scJazz

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« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2003, 11:03:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
"The odds were always hideously unfavorable to the Nips"

Really? At Pearl Harbor, Phillipines, Wake, Coral Sea, Midway, Gudalcanal, Singapore, CBI, Darwin 1943, unfavorable how?

You mention one of the best examples of the Intel battle, Midway. Nimitz had pretty much exactly what he needed to blast Yamamoto's fleet. He had it pretty much exactly where he needed it. Yes, it was a hard fought battle but the fact that Nimitz was reading Yamamoto's TOE and Op orders was decisive. In this sense the situation was hideously unfavorable. In fact this particular battle caused a huge uproar in the Intel community because Nimitz did not fall for Yamamoto's feints, did have everything where it was needed, did proceed to blast the IJN to bits. Dr. Turing and Commander Schoen had fits because of the improbability of this occuring without our being able to break Indigo. They were deeply concerned that this battle would cause the IJN to switch ciphers because they felt Indigo was broken. After this battle Nimitz takes extreme precautions to make accidental detection of enemy intents because Roosevelt chews him a new orifice.

Quote
"Allied aircraft would be waiting several thousand feet above them on full fuel tanks when the Nips were stuck down low and slow trying to conserve fuel"

Again, what battle was that? I read Major Foss's accounts of the Guadalcanal campaign, he doesn't mention any of that. He seems to remember it as a hard fought camapaign for some inexplicable reason. Did INTEL help the air war?  of course it did, when it could, but you present it like it was a pre ordained kabuki dance with everybody knowing their parts in advance. Hardly!

Only Theatre Commanders, Heads of State, and the actual cryptanalysts were on the MAGIC list (Indigo Intel take codeword). Naturally enough Major Foss wouldn't have anything to say on the subject. Again part of the reason for these battles being hard fought were due to the need to keep the break secret. No action could be taken that explicity or implicitly informed the Japanese command that Indigo was broken. Therefore some opportunities had to be passed on.

Quote
As for the crappy Allied a/c well, try fighting a P-38 in a Ki-43, or a F4U or F6F in a Zero. Again, an overgeneralised statement. Some were dogs, like the P-39, and some had no equal, like the P-38.

Actually I was referring to P-39s and P-40s. Once the Corsairs, Hellcats, and Lightnings started showing up in Theatre in great numbers with the teething problems of these classes worked out things went much better. This is the "getting planes that work" part I was referring to.

Quote
P-40s fought the IJN, against the odds and sometimes came out the better, sometimes not, (just like the CT), they were surely not the only allied fighter used in the PAC, however.

Sure they did never said they didn't. I was pointing out that many of the major engagements were won because we were reading the enemies mail. Aside from the mail aspect there is also the training issue. After the initial stages of the war US pilots were generally better trained, supplied, and equiped.

Quote

"(probably no one in this group of WW2 experts)"

Gee whiz mister, shucks, thanks for stopping bye...lol.

Re-read the sentence and note what it actually says... I'll try again. I'm certain that everyone here knows what Indigo is because everyone here is a bunch of WW2 enthusiasts.

Quote
Originally posted by eddiek
Jazz, I didn't tweak anything.
The "ATTACK" button should work.  

Flew an A20G yesterday with the attack button pressed. Earned Bomber perks not Fighter perks. Only did this once and couldn't get out again for a second try. I'll do it again and confirm.

Quote

I guess it all boils down to tactics ...(SNIP)...That is, unless the Zero pilot is inexperienced or you have numbers on your side.
WMaker1 schooled me and two others yesterday, he in an A6M5, me in a P-38 and two other guys in P-40's.  To put it bluntly, he flat outflew all three of us and was untouchable.
...(SNIP)...In a P-40, ya gotta (unfortunately) take off from a base at least a sector away from where you want to fight, grab alt, and hope like heck you are above the Zeroes when you meet them.  Otherwise, you have little recourse but to dive away or keep going straight and don't turn even a smidge.........once the Zero has reversed course, he takes a while to get up to your speed again.

Most of my experience yesterday was as follows...
1) Only 1 time was I actually higher than the A6M I engaged.
2) I was never flying against an inexperienced pilot in an A6M.
3) I was always flying from A40 a sector away and climbing to 12K to 20K.
4) I was flying 1 vs 1 or once 1 vs 5.
5) I could get 1 good gun solution on the initial merge and put rounds into the target but never enough.
6) After the initial merge I'd get 1 or 2 opportunities for HO or hi deflection shots but couldn't take advantage of it. Some rounds would land but not enough.
7) Having sucked all the E out of my aircraft in these 3 passes without a kill I'd be screwed. Totally defensive and trying like hell to get out of the fight.

Rules of Engagement in this setup
1) Never engage unless E state is far superior to IJAF.
2) Only work 2 gun solutions... initial merge and the next pass after that disengage.
3) Open fire with half second burst on any opportunity for HO at D1.7.
4) If WidowMaker is flying for IJAF switch to MA immediately and don't even bother.

Offline Oldman731

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Setup for Friday, October 3, 2003
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2003, 03:56:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I'm sure my score will suffer but I think I'm enjoying the challenge.

Heh heh.  Storch, dude, renew yourself and break free of the score chains.  It's a whole new world out there if you forget to check whether you killed more of them than they killed of you.

Trust me on this one.

- oldman