Pricing,Rif-Raf,strategy,alt mongers.....

[Rattler of The OUTLAWS]

Problems that all can be solved with one concept.

Re-think the Arena Concept. CK II beta test
was right on the mark.Just never got the
Networking bugs worked out in time.

Make your own game ( you set the arena parameters )

Don't like the Rif-Raf (aka kids)? crank up
the realism settings and or password protect your arena.

Strategy?  Wildly Mixed Interests (aka Main Arena) hasn't ever worked over the entire test of Online WWII multiplayer gaming Time.
When are we finally going to SQUASH this bug?

User Definable Settings such as.......

1) # of fields per side ( Allied & Enemy ) 2 sided event

2) Limited Resources ON/OFF

3) If ON      How many Aircraft allowed Per side?

**** this is KEY !   Limited resource engagements will crank up the Strategy beyond
anyones conceivable imagination....think about it******

4)Icons settings for   Allied/Enemy Aircraft?

5)Flight Model, Check the box
Blackouts/Redouts ON?
Easy Physics Mode ON?
Easy takeoff/landings ON?
Overstressing Airframes ON?
Compression ON?
ECT.........

6)Type of Aircraft per side allowed?
You check the boxes next to the aircraft.

7)Time of Day simulated for start?
One hour before darkness?
One hour before dawn?
Mid-day?
Mid-night?

8)Cloud/ weather?

9)Time limit ON?
1/2 hour
1 hour
1 1/2 hours
ect.......

10)# of Carrier Fleets per side?

11)# of fields per side?

12)Terrain?
You pick it!

You get idea I think.

You log on, shop the games.Don't find one you like, create your own.

Aero Squadron Meets could be pre-arranged and
password protected and given out via email.

Make it a Realistic/Strategic as you Want/don't want.

Wildly Varied interests = NO PROBLEM

Always a game that fits your interests, and your Never forced into one the doesn't.

Furball with all planes available No Resource
Limit or a 2 Hour Limited Aircraft Engagement
with a Midway type Flavor....... U decide!

Either beat this Drum with me or keep complaining and never get it resolved.

Think about it.

Thanks for reading
Steve "Rattler" Needham
The Outlaws
Since 1992

[Thunder]

I thought about it... I DON'T LIKE IT!
Next!

Thunder

[Stiglr]

Of course you're right, rattler, although that first response tells you there are still knuckleheads who just don't get it.

Many current online flight sims have all strived to give us choice, choice, choice, and limits have been a taboo subject.

So what do we, the players, do with all that choice? Create dweebery. All the original thoughts wrt tactics have revolved around gaming the game and exploiting loopholes (ackstars, attack-dweebing, sealclubbing) rather than using the proper tools for the job and maintaining the feel of WWII combat...all the while maintaining some semblance of side balancing so that everyone can have some fun.

We need to have more controls and restrictions in the hands of the players to allow them to create (or choose from) the type of experience they want.

Confirmed Kill DID have it right. There certainly are worse alternatives to the "Main Arena" concept.

[Flathat]

If I understand the idea correctly, it's sound...but the potential downside (and what probably keeps it from happening) is the "20 arenas for 80 pilots" phenomenon.

Potential negative effects: You just don't get "critical mass" in any single arena. Additionally, once you get up to a certain number of arenas it might cause server load problems (no matter how few pilots are in an arena, there's an irreducible minimum of server resources required to run it--too many arenas and something goes sproing.

Still an interesting idea, though. Maybe if there were an equitable way of limiting the number of arenas that could exist at any given time, along with a way of rotating them in and out of existence so that others could get a turn to "run the war their way."

Or how about this (dons flameproof suit): Maybe this "player-created arena" feature should be available...for an additional charge (by which I mean you pay extra to create your own arena).   (i am now running briskly)

------------------
Flathat
'Black Dahlia'
No10 RNAS "The Black Flight"
Angel on your wing, devil on your tail



[This message has been edited by Flathat (edited 12-06-1999).]

[jedi]

Kinda agree with Flathat here.  The problem would be how to create numbers in any given arena.

Maybe the "Basic Arena" could be a high-fidelity, two-sided war along the lines of the HA (come on now, sooner or later, SOMEONE has to try the historic setup as the "standard" arena).  The BA would initially be the ONLY arena open (with flat rate pricing, should be no problem getting some folks in there).  Once the BA reached a "sustainable" number (50 guys, maybe?) then the "arena modification area" would become "unlocked."  At that time, players could create their own scenarios, and you're off and running.  Once the BA dropped below 50 again, the mini-scenarios would continue to run, but the arena-modification area would become "locked" again, so no new scenarios could be created until BA numbers went back up.  Of course, new players could join a mini-scen in progress if its creator had permitted that option.

Perhaps set up two "theaters" for "arena-masters," a fantasy theater where you could build Spit vs Spit, no-holds-barred mini-arenas and a realist theater where the mini-arenas have historical limitations imposed.

But retain the Basic Arena as the initial focal point, and require players to fly there until "enough" players are online.  Maybe link "arena-master" privileges to score, or rank, or something...

--jedi

[Rattler of The OUTLAWS]

Excellent feedback and Idea's guys!

See that, there IS intelligent life on this
board :/

I would add, although 100 players in an arena
sounds grand, you hardly encounter more than
15 MAX at any time (for the greatest part)

100 ++ players all in Mixed directions OR
30 to 40 with the Horns Locked in a heated and desperate Battle with Everything on the line.(Limited Aircraft,fuel,ammo,maintence..)

I know what my choice would be...

Rattler

[tshred]

I agree with flat, all though you might only encounter a small percentage of the actual players in the arena, it's the unknown factor that the 99% you don't see are hi on your 6, keeping the level of excitement and anxiety high. Warbirds has many different arena's, but you still see the majority in the Main. Only during Scenario's and occasionally the HA, do the other arena's have any significant numbers. As and example, I checked out Fighter Ops, (Warbirds on AOL) and even if I still liked Warbirds, I would not have even considered playing, as the only arena's with anyone in them were the novice arena's.

The other idea's are great tho, and already done to some extent for Scenario's by players who have been given the ability to manipulate arena's in other Sim's.

Patience. Other arena's will pop up, and wait until you participate in your first Scenario! They are the best part of online simming, recreating history, who know's what the outcome will be  .

ts

[juzz]

You might find this interview interesting guys...  http://www.allgames.com/combat/archive.cfm   Scroll down to the Aces High 9/20/99 interview, then FFWD to ~27 minutes. Basically it explains some more about what Leonid points out below.  

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 12-07-1999).]

[leonid]

Rattler,  Hitech is planning on giving us players:

1)terrain editor
2)8 vs. 8 head-to-head configuration (free)

so, your idea will be implemented in a roundabout way.

I do have to say that numbers aren't everything.  I have had 4 vs. 4 squad duels with almost no icons and only directional radar and let me tell you, it was probably the most exciting time I ever had.  Rattler, I feel your idea does have merit, but it does have some hitches as those above have stated.

Now you said CKII was using this?  Were you a beta tester for it?  And if so, how did the freely configurable arena concept work there?

------------------
129 IAP VVS RKKA




[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 12-07-1999).]

[214CaveJ]

I dinnae think we can discuss the details of CK's beta cause we're still covered by the NDA for it,  but the demo that ran on mplayer had the various games hosted on one of the client machines, with no central server.

[Rattler of The OUTLAWS]

Tshred: I've flown in many Warbirds senarios
over the years.They do mimmic the "user definable Arena" in sorts.

Cave: We are able to discuss CKII openly.

I believe Stiglr was the only one to fully understand the point I was trying to convey.

I don't wish the Main Arena away. I've been
thru AW1Dos via Genie,AWII for windows beta,
Warbirds all the way thru,FA-1 beta,CKII beta, and now AH beta.

Air Warrior has some of best Stategic inferstructure around. The problem is,SOME folks don't want to be penalized for furballing and don't wish have all the fields
eliminated,forced to fly further from the action,or be limited on their resources ( fuel,ammo,ect)

OTHERS want Full Strat Mode ON:want to punish
the enemy to the fullest,and deprieve him
of all his resources.

And,there is a full range of varients in between.

A Wildly Mixed Interests Main Arena , is a
constant compromise and not a Direct
Solution to all the customers wants and needs.

The Historical Arena suffered from this and has left many Paying Customers with the only option to pull the plug and wait.

Many of us that have been around for this long are simply tired of Capture the Flag,and
the 24 hour arena.

We want the ability to tailor our own arena to suit our needs while not stepping on someones elses.

The closed end arena with Clear-Cut winners and loosers,limited aircraft & resources will
cure 95% of all the Gripes posted on these
boards for the last 8+ years I've been at it.

I don't like the Icon ranges
Its an altitude fight,highest alt wins!
Why carry ordinance when it rebuilds?
Why close a field when they can simply switch
sides or go to another.
I don't like the plane-set.
I hate ditchers! (this is a good one,ditch the plane in a limited resource engagement and loose it the rest of the game)
Damned Head-ONs!
No one will escort my bomber (another good one,in limited resource engagement,limited aircraft{including bombers}every plane is sacred,and so are your fuel tanks,ammo sheds,
maintenance facilities,ect)
I could go on for hours.........literally

The beauty is,only those wishing to Engage under the specific terms need join.

Everyone is happy!

Rattler

[Thunder]

Hmmmmm  I felt that I understood your points. They were well constructed and very understandable. However, one CAN understand and still disagree!   Respectfully! I THOUGHT ABOUT IT... DON'T LIKE IT! You did say "Think About it!" and the thread calls for a reply!

Thunder

[Rattler of The OUTLAWS]

Thunder: I never did single you out.Your opinion is yours,neither right or wrong.

[Thunder]

Rattler,
I never thought you were singling me out! My comment in response to yours ......I believe Stiglr was the only one to fully understand the point I was trying to convey. He agreed with you so you must figure he was the only one that fully understood your point. My post ment nothing more than "I THOUGHT I ALSO UNDERSTOOD" but "I DON'T AGREE!"

Deep down you know I'm RIGHT hehe!  

Salute
Thunder

[Minotaur]

I would just like to see an arena with mountains everywhere.  Not just a "Very Cool" hump in the middle.

Get rid of that flat ground.

Mino