Author Topic: Vouchers and votes  (Read 1407 times)

Offline AKIron

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Vouchers and votes
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2003, 12:33:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
One thing is for certain, I don't want it left up to you to decide as to who is uneducatable.

 Why not? It's my money, after all. Why shouldn't I be able to decide who gets it? I would not presume to deny you the right to dispose of your money.
 


Because you aren't qualified to make the determination and neither am I. In fact, there are very few alive that aren't educatable, at least to some extent. The only ones not educatable being those in a coma or from California. ;)

In any society there is going to be a certain amount of socialism. It is unavoidable and necessary. It is the nature of society. How we implement it is our choice and within certain boundaries you do have the right to say how your public money is spent. To deny anyone an opportunity for an education in our society is not within your rights nor would I choose for it to be so.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Rude

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« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2003, 12:36:42 PM »
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
>>During a recent visit to Washington, I was told by a high official there that he had posed this question to Democrats: "Why are you so opposed to vouchers?"
The reply: "We aren't going to give you guys a victory."

So this question was given to every Democrat and every Democrat replied the same?
Why not name names... who was interviewed?

Sounds like more Rethorical BS to me.

Since the Republicans control congress, the Executive, and most of the Judicial branches of the government..

heck... why don't you Republicans just out law Democrats... call them enemy combatants and be done with it.... throw them all in prison... like those two Australians down in Cuba.

After all Liberals do no good for this country... they hate America. and they support terrorists...

This country doesn't need two parties... one party is good enough.

Pass a law and get done with it.... already.


Now there is an idea...you're first Nexus...off to Cuba ya go!:)

Offline DmdNexus

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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2003, 12:55:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Now there is an idea...you're first Nexus...off to Cuba ya go!:)


If only I were a Democrat.... yah Cuba... Carribean... clear blue/green waters... tropical fruits... exotic women...

Latin music...

No Republicans!

Hablo Espaniol?

I'm there.. .give me the ticket!

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2003, 01:11:27 PM »
AKIron: Because you aren't qualified to make the determination and neither am I. In fact, there are very few alive that aren't educatable, at least to some extent.

 Setting the issue of coercion aside, a test at the end of each grade tells you which student mastered the curriculum. At some point every human hits his personal wall in education. Beyong that it does not make sense to waste resources.
 Better to offer such child a vocational traning and let him work.

In any society there is going to be a certain amount of socialism. It is unavoidable and necessary.

 Yes, because you have your vote backed by armed goons and spineless Supreme Court. I could live quite well without your socialism. Also, you are quite wrong that socialism can be present in a "certain amount". I've done quite a study of it. The socialism may be either retreating or increasing. There is no stable "middle way" possible. Every government intervention causes need for more government intervention to deal with the consequences and so on intill total ggovernmental control over production and distribution.

It is the nature of society.

No, just the nature of tyrany to always expand.

How we implement it is our choice and within certain boundaries you do have the right to say how your public money is spent.

 What a hyppocritical statement. Yes, I have the right to say how my public money is spent, thank you very much for allowing me... I have no influence over how your public money is spent. Once I am in the minority, my vote does not count.

To deny anyone an opportunity for an education in our society is not within your rights nor would I choose for it to be so.

 Why do I owe anyone an opportunity for an education at the expence of my property, becides your arbitrary choice backed by violence, that is?

 I mean, hundred fifty years ago little tyrants like you would insist that I had an obligation not to teach the black slaves to read under thepenalty of punishment. Now another bunch came to power and claims that I have an obligation to teach those who cannot and do not express interest.

 Could you possibly leave us alone?

 P.S. It's not that I begruge the money. I - and Sowell - actually know that we would have better education if the government did not administer it - more students better educated at less cost.

 miko

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2003, 01:39:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d

In any society there is going to be a certain amount of socialism. It is unavoidable and necessary.

 Yes, because you have your vote backed by armed goons and spineless Supreme Court. I could live quite well without your socialism. Also, you are quite wrong that socialism can be present in a "certain amount". I've done quite a study of it. The socialism may be either retreating or increasing. There is no stable "middle way" possible. Every government intervention causes need for more government intervention to deal with the consequences and so on intill total ggovernmental control over production and distribution.


No one is stopping you. There must be an island somewhere you can live all alone. However, if you drive on OUR roads or drink OUR processed water or use OUR public sewer system then you most certainly are dependent upon socialism.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2003, 02:00:51 PM »
AKIron:  However, if you drive on OUR roads or drink OUR processed water or use OUR public sewer system then you most certainly are dependent upon socialism.

 B.S. Those things like roads are "yours" because you stole/extorted the property/money from the like of me who actually create the wealth and foot the bill.
 And of course it is illegal to offer competition to "your" public utility services, so I have to drink "your" water. And because I have to buy "your" water, I have to pay triple per gallon for the public sewer system that I DON'T use. You see - if I use water to wash my car or water my garden, it still is counted as if it goes into the sewer. Nice, isn't it. Why even provide the service if you can just charge for it under threat. Just like your schools - high cost, no education...

 Why don't you just admit it - might makes right. You have might on your side and so do whatever your ilk wants. I have no problem living with that. I even know how it will end, if not exactly looking forward to living through the experience.

 miko

Offline mietla

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« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2003, 02:56:46 PM »
Only stupid people learn on their own mistakes. The smart ones learn on other people's mistakes.


Just study some history and look around what kind of successes the socialism/communism/,,, ism has brought to this world.

Offline popeye

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« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2003, 03:30:47 PM »
miko,

Do you pay for internet access by the minute, or a flat fee?  Just curious....
KONG

Where is Major Kong?!?

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2003, 06:04:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
AKIron:  However, if you drive on OUR roads or drink OUR processed water or use OUR public sewer system then you most certainly are dependent upon socialism.

 B.S. Those things like roads are "yours" because you stole/extorted the property/money from the like of me who actually create the wealth and foot the bill.
 And of course it is illegal to offer competition to "your" public utility services, so I have to drink "your" water. And because I have to buy "your" water, I have to pay triple per gallon for the public sewer system that I DON'T use. You see - if I use water to wash my car or water my garden, it still is counted as if it goes into the sewer. Nice, isn't it. Why even provide the service if you can just charge for it under threat. Just like your schools - high cost, no education...

 Why don't you just admit it - might makes right. You have might on your side and so do whatever your ilk wants. I have no problem living with that. I even know how it will end, if not exactly looking forward to living through the experience.

 miko


I pay taxes too miko and have probably done so much longer than you, for about 36 years now. You're being just silly if you can't see the need to share certain things including the cost of providing for those that can't provide for themselves.

Right also makes might.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2003, 09:32:58 AM »
popeye: miko, Do you pay for internet access by the minute, or a flat fee?  Just curious....

 $50/month for a DSL line which is a business expense.


AKIron: I pay taxes too miko and have probably done so much longer than you, for about 36 years now.

 First, I could have paid as much in 14 years as you did in 36.
 Second, your government has been spending much more than you were paying in taxes - witness the huge debt for which I am responcible now, so I would be paying taxes to cover expences even for those 22 years that I was not here.
 But that is hardly relevant. I do not believe that anything I do gives me a right to dictate how you should live.

You're being just silly if you can't see the need to share certain things including the cost of providing for those that can't provide for themselves.

 You are distorting the truth. I do see the need to help those who need help. I am not arguing against morality here.

 What I do not see is the need for me to be forced to help people you chose in ways that you choose.
 Even less do I see the need for me to finance your utopean schemes that are ruinous to the very same people you are claiming to be helping - as Thomas Sowell explains in his many works.

 You are being silly if you can't see that your socialist ways will destroy those people in the same ways and for the same reason as they did people of other countries afflicted with socialism.

 miko

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2003, 09:48:06 AM »
Miko wishes to leave the Leviathan-led world and return to man's natural state.  Good luck!

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2003, 09:53:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
You are being silly if you can't see that your socialist ways will destroy those people in the same ways and for the same reason as they did people of other countries afflicted with socialism.

 miko


Indeed I would be. However, I'm not a socialist. Though I do recognize that here in the US we practice a bit of socialism, much more than I would like.

To have a balanced and prosperous society based on individual freedom and responsibility requires diligent examination and adjustment of our government.

What society in which the rich ruled unmercilessly and ungivingly hasn't fallen?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2003, 10:10:32 AM »
where is the evidence that the U.S. is unmerciful and ungiving?   I would suggest that the oppossite is true.   I had read once that the U.S. contributes more per capita to charity than any other nation.

What does that have to do with vouchers in any case?

Dump all the socialism and we will all have enough to send our children to school.... good schools... not the government crap we have now.

lazs

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2003, 10:16:21 AM »
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"Why are you so opposed to vouchers?"

The reply: "We aren't going to give you guys a victory."


no names, no nothing. Why do conservatives feel the need to create stories like this. Did they ask some guy off the street who claimed to be a democrat?

Funny how you can get upset over something that is all make believe.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2003, 10:22:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
where is the evidence that the U.S. is unmerciful and ungiving?   I would suggest that the oppossite is true.   I had read once that the U.S. contributes more per capita to charity than any other nation.

What does that have to do with vouchers in any case?

Dump all the socialism and we will all have enough to send our children to school.... good schools... not the government crap we have now.

lazs


I wasn't implying it is lazs. I was only trying to point out to miko that a certain amount of socialism is necessary in a society like ours. Just gotta keep it to a minimum.

Free public education paid for with taxes is socialistic. Not everyone pays the same but everyone gets the education. I'm not against that. I'm against pouring more and more money into a failing system when there are other proven alternatives.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.