Author Topic: if im in a p51 in real life can i hear a 109 200 yards behind me? (Read 1722 times)

AKCasca · « **Reply #45 on:** October 27, 2003, 02:58:23 PM »

The Cozy had a 750HP engine in it?

Grimm · « **Reply #46 on:** October 27, 2003, 02:58:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
One more: Take a ride in a car thats straight pipe, no muffler, no cat, you won't hear anything outside the car.
-SW

Disagree. As per my post above. (based on personal experience)
It really depends on how loud that car next to you is. Same for any noise.

Come on guys, you dont go completely deaf when your around a loud noise. Some of these answers are too absolute. You would think you couldnt hear a large explosion next to you if the engine was running.

If the sound is there, it can be heard, Just depends on how close and how loud it is before a human ear is going to notice it. How else do explain being able to use a head set in a real A/C

Back to the original question, I dont know, The ony way to prove the answer is to have you guys buy me a P51 and a 109 and help me test it out

airbumba · « **Reply #47 on:** October 27, 2003, 03:05:58 PM »

If a P51 shoots down a 109 over a forest and nobody's around to hear it...does anyone give a crap?

bumba

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #48 on:** October 27, 2003, 03:13:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKCasca
The Cozy had a 750HP engine in it?

I just checked it out, for some reason I thought it was 750 - but the one I was in was 160HP while the other one was 200 HP. They were the small tandem two seaters.

Grimm, I'll have to trust you that you could hear the other car. I've never heard another car with my friend's 5.0 Mustang thats been straight piped, the other cars were straight piped too.

If the sound is there, sure it can be heard - but then you run into the fact that most sounds cancel each other out.

I've just never heard another plane - ever - while in the cockpit of one with the engine running. Besides, no WWII fighter pilots have ever said they heard the other plane, they only mention of seeing the guns blinking at them and the tracers flying by. The sound waves have to catch up to the plane in front of them, and defeat the noise already being produced by that plane's engine and the loud noise created by the wind moving across the surface of the canopy and plane - and if that isn't enough (which it is) it still has to travel through the ear pieces of the pilot's headset.

The reason you can hear through a headset is because the ear pieces use material that stops the sound resonating so much.

Kind of like putting up mattresses on the basement walls to create a sound stage that won't disturb your neighbors.
-SW

kevykev56 · « **Reply #49 on:** October 28, 2003, 02:10:22 AM »

AKS\/\/ulfe

Well maybe I shouldnt have accepted your direct correlation so easily earlier. I am now in doubt again since the 160-200hp comparison.

I have drag raced motorcycles and thought it not relevant earlier because of being outside and not inside a canopy. But my experience with all the wind noise, and im sure it is alot more than inside a vehicle, I can hear the bike beside me as we go down the track at over 110mph and we are only talking about 100-150hp.

I feel your grasping at straws to prove your point with the comment about most sounds canceling each other out. The only time that happens is if the sounds are the same frequency, are time syncronous, and opposite phase relationship. Not a very common thing. If it were twin engine aircraft would be silent and we would have a hard time communicating.

Another point that should be mentioned is that although wind noise is a factor it is decreased by the more aerodynamic the aircraft. not sure how it compares to your cozy but just a guess the P51 is more aerodynamic than the cozy. Also another personal experience at over 500knots in a KC-135 (707) sitting in the cockpit without headsets I cannot remember a deafining roar of wind noise(not much if any soundproof material inside military aircraft). Still no proof that either is right or wrong here just a few more observations. Your thoughts?

RHIN0

MetaTron · « **Reply #50 on:** October 28, 2003, 07:32:30 AM »

My first experience with this effect was a canopy to canopy pass at about 100d. I was surprised that this effect was included in the game and when I mentioned it I was then immediately informed about the volumn levels. It was a neat effect until the gamey aspects came into play.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #51 on:** October 28, 2003, 12:20:16 PM »

If I couldn't hear the plane next to me with a 180HP engine in it, how could I ever hear a 1300hp over a 1300hp engine?

And I'm not grasping at straws, if you can find me just ONE instance of a fighter pilot saying "I heard the plane coming up behind me, and broke off to avoid him" - then I'll be proven wrong.

We aren't talking about motorcycles, or drag racers- in neither of those are you in an enclosed virtually air tight environment. In a cockpit, you are. Sound waves travel through air, kind of hard to penetrate a thick canopy or aluminum.

There is just no way you are going to hear a plane 10 yards away from you, let alone 200 - unless your engine is off.
-SW

Gixer · « **Reply #52 on:** October 28, 2003, 12:27:10 PM »

Nope.

Flying a helicopter I can't hear ****. Unless the doors are off and I'm hovering beside a Harvard as it's taxing down the taxi way.

I'm sure you certinly wouldn't hear anything unless the other plane was just about to collide with yours.

...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~

Grimm · « **Reply #53 on:** October 28, 2003, 12:39:50 PM »

I guess the next best thing would be to ask a few Warbird pilots, guys that actually fly them.

I still like my Idea of you guys buying me a P51 so I could try.

festus · « **Reply #54 on:** October 28, 2003, 02:47:19 PM »

Well, I've been in fingertip formation with an f-16/f-15 and could not hear the eng. of the other a/c. I can't hear the a/c behind me on BDA checks. I find it very hard to believe one could hear an a/c behind ya even with a WWII prop plane.

Maniac · « **Reply #55 on:** October 28, 2003, 04:00:47 PM »

Last time i checked this was a game and not real life.

Grimm · « **Reply #56 on:** October 28, 2003, 04:14:01 PM »

True, It is a game

I think being able to hear the A/C does add to the experience. Its pretty cool to hear that close pass.

If your going to lose outside engine sounds, you might as well lose Check Six as well. Real planes dont have a six button. Better loose the trim buttons, Real planes dont have trim buttons. Better lose the Multi Auto Pilots, Warbirds didnt have auto climb. Better lose the Radio ID things, thats not real either.

Lets face it there are alot of things that are added to AH to make it a more enjoyable experience. Im pretty happy with the way things are, and this game just keeps getting better as it goes.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #57 on:** October 28, 2003, 04:50:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Grimm
If your going to lose outside engine sounds, you might as well lose Check Six as well. Real planes dont have a six button. Better loose the trim buttons, Real planes dont have trim buttons. Better lose the Multi Auto Pilots, Warbirds didnt have auto climb. Better lose the Radio ID things, thats not real either.

Pilots could call their wingleaders 6, or anyone in their squadron. If they knew the frequency of the other unit, chances are they could raise them to call their 6.

Then again, wing tactics were actually used in real life - in AH its just a giant furball with no organization.

Real planes have trim, not trim buttons - but do you have any extra wheel devices laying around you could use to trim your plane? Yes, some planes don't have trim on all axis, but they are trimmed to fly level at a certain speed.

Some planes did have an auto level function so that the pilot would not have to hold onto his joystick at all times when in level flight, not all - but some did.

Radio ID - I assume you mean the person's name showing up in the corner when they send you a message? True, but then again - they had predetermined radio IDs and each radio transmission would begin "[Person message is to] [Person message is from] [message]" Only squads in the game that want that kind of thing do it, so its kind of necessary to know their handle if they won't say it.

In any event, none of that relates to this thread. It wasn't about whats real or not, it was whether or not you would be able to hear a plane 200 yards behind you.

You would not be able to.
-SW

Grimm · « **Reply #58 on:** October 28, 2003, 05:09:16 PM »

Definately off topic.

But its easy to get side tracked.

Im not actualy in disagreement with the fact you most likely could not hear another A/C during flight. I think thats probably true.

No one has brought in the fact that some people hear better and worse than others. Maybe a select few could? Maybe no human could. Its all speculation for me.

As far as Gameplay, which is a bit of read between the lines for this topic, I think its OK to be able to hear. I like it, It just adds something to the experience for me. My only point is that no Sim/Game is perfect and there will always be comprimises between gameplay and realism.

kevykev56 · « **Reply #59 on:** October 29, 2003, 02:08:35 PM »

Grimm wery well spoken, I am with you on that post. It looks like we are going to have to buy that P51 and 109 to find out for sure. I will thow in $2, 1 for each plane. AKS\/\/ulfe Sorry about the grasp at straws comment, I could have used a better choice for that statement. I just thougt the sound cancel debate was a bit off base. But hey this is a game and without all the cool things AH offers to us what would we do with ourselfs? I might actually spend time with my family...lol

~~RHIN0~~