Radar settings
« on: Today at 02:20:44 PM »
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We're using some new radar settings for the main arenas.
The radar deck has been lowered to 65 feet above ground
level and will require challenging nap of the earth
flying to stay below radar.
Tower based radar range has been increased to 20 miles.
You can view the radar distances right clicking on the
clipboard map and selecting Radar from the display
settings menu.
(edit): Pyro, you do realize that the challenge is completely lost by allowing them to use auto level, right?)
Also the warning ranges have increased accordingly... base alert will be triggered much earlier now.
Base alert (Fighter, bomber, vehicle) is not the same as tower based radar range which can be greater or lesser
We will see I have a feeling several people are not going to be pleased.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,241309.0.html
1 down, 2 to go.
(edit): Pyro, you do realize that the challenge is completely lost by allowing them to use auto level, right?)
Not Happy, really really not happy with the new radar settings. I take a lot of noobs on NOE missions and It's hard enough keeping them below 200 feet let alone 65. Wasn't a 200 foot radar deck about standard for the Cold War?
Also, I would like less radar range. The old range gave plenty of time to intercept incoming planes as long as we flew an appropriate plane to intercept.
Already happening on CH200: "Now you can't capture bases anymore" :D
Oh the hordes! What will they do now? :aok :rofl
The whines on 200 right now are like sweet ambrosia.
Damn, can someone near HTC give me the address of the local pizza place? I think I need to spring for lunch to say 'thank you!'.
simmer down delirium its just a test.
Edit: i hope
Already happening on CH200: "Now you can't capture bases anymore" :D
Already happening on CH200: "Now you can't capture bases anymore" :D
Send two formations of buffs ahead @25k and kill all hangars before moving in.
The whines on 200 right now are like sweet ambrosia.
Damn, can someone near HTC give me the address of the local pizza place? I think I need to spring for lunch to say 'thank you!'.
Why do you care, you do nothing but vulch anyway
Joke? :huhno hes not. he is really upset over the dar change.
Where's 65ft on my altimeter? :uhoh:rofl :aok
We need some 70 foot trees now.
wrongway
I think 100ft would have been better. Where's 65ft on my altimeter? :uhoh
We need some 70 foot trees now.
I for one welcome the changed radar altitude quite much, but I thoroughly dislike the increased dar ranges.
One thumb up, one thumb down.
Already happening on CH200: "Now you can't capture bases anymore" :D
20 miles seems like a good compromise, even 1940 radar had better range :aok
OK... this change is just fine.. and even though I am a member of a squad that frequents NOE missions, I actually do support the change.... with a couple of... 'enhancements'...
1> If Radar is down at a base, it should revert back to the original 12K distance, and increase height to about 200ft or so for the base to flash.
Why do you care, you do nothing but vulch anyway
Praise God. This will go a long way to thwart the fight-allergic, NOE, milk-running, back slappers. Let's see how much back slapping they do now that they will actually have to fight for fields...<gets popcorn ready>
We have already seen the first successfull NOE'S with the new settings. Maybe the hordes will just get bigger too, and more FH dropping.That is my thought too. First thing that will go is going to be F/H's. This may be even worse for the furballer types.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,241309.0.html
1 down, 2 to go.
(edit): Pyro, you do realize that the challenge is completely lost by allowing them to use auto level, right?)
Not Happy, really really not happy with the new radar settings. I take a lot of noobs on NOE missions and It's hard enough keeping them below 200 feet let alone 65. Wasn't a 200 foot radar deck about standard for the Cold War?
Also, I would like less radar range. The old range gave plenty of time to intercept incoming planes as long as we flew an appropriate plane to intercept.
The tears of unfathomable sadness, yummy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM&feature=related)
What disturbs me is the sacrificing of realism
I dont fly noe so much these days, I do like taking bases however.How effective was ground spotters and listening posts.
What disturbs me is the sacrificing of realism to appease a certain percentage of the community. People are always gonna horde and as I posted on 200 this evening 1 guy alone can stop an noe, 1 guy aint gonna stop 15-20+ hi alt cons coming in above the cloud layer, warning or not.
once again how effective was ww2 radar?
Where did this new settings sacrifice realism?
when the radar dropped to what, 65ft?
Not Happy, really really not happy with the new radar settings. I take a lot of noobs on NOE missions and It's hard enough keeping them below 200 feet let alone 65. Wasn't a 200 foot radar deck about standard for the Cold War?Trying to think of something witty that hasn't already been....ahh screw it
Also, I would like less radar range. The old range gave plenty of time to intercept incoming planes as long as we flew an appropriate plane to intercept.
How is that less realistic than the across the board 500 ft setting?
please dont focus on the actual altitude of the dar limit, you know that aint my point.
What disturbs me is the sacrificing of realism to appease a certain percentage of the community
:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
This is the funnest Titanic Tuesday that I have had in a long time!!! :banana:Until the tactic is kill F/H's first & based off some other squad members of yours well we know he wont like those hangars going down first will he.
This is my last post on the topic since I have appeared to have wandered from a general discussion to a trolling zone.
WW2 did not have radar that covered 65ft alt.
and just so I am absolutely clear, this was done purely to appease the scoretard whiners who dont like noe.
done here.
:lol
or just not do NOE raids.
Very true.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Actually if you are into score above everything else you will be against the new rules... you absolutely need base captures in goons for a good score, and thatS' far more difficult with the new settings :)
It will still take a co-ordinated attack to take out the FH's and still have something left over for the VH.....which should be the first to go down.... and the town. With just the single dar you will have about 11 minutes to up and build a cap. With dar circles over lapping your going to have more of a warning and so more time to get a cap in place. Fights might actually break out all over the place !Unless the nits are all defending one base already as soon as you change location they seem to take about 6 base captures later to realize the fight is no longer where it was. :rofl
At the risk of sounding a little foolish, 65 ft does sound a little arbitrary. Does anyone know if the number has historical relevance? Imo 100ft would be better. 65 ft, seems almost ludicrous to run a successful NOE at, even at full concentration with perfectly capable cartoon warriors.Don't know but if I am doing one I am going to have to learn where that 65 is on the dial.
At the risk of sounding a little foolish, 65 ft does sound a little arbitrary. Does anyone know if the number has historical relevance? Imo 100ft would be better. 65 ft, seems almost ludicrous to run a successful NOE at, even at full concentration with perfectly capable cartoon warriors.
At the risk of sounding a little foolish, 65 ft does sound a little arbitrary. Does anyone know if the number has historical relevance? Imo 100ft would be better. 65 ft, seems almost ludicrous to run a successful NOE at, even at full concentration with perfectly capable cartoon warriors.
Don't know but if I am doing one I am going to have to learn where that 65 is on the dial.
Actually almost all kind of numbers have a historic relevance. It all depends on type of dar and installation (and atmospheric conditions). IIRC, the really war home chain radar had indeed a minimum altitude of 500ft. Other radars had much lower limits, especially over water or flat terrain.
There's a good reason intruders of all nations did skim the see or did fly at treetop level.
A flat 500ft or 65ft limit isn't "realistic" in either case, as the game doesn't check for things like radar line of sight and so on. (And of course: The radar ranges are still totally "unhistoric" ;) )
It's just odd that they would change it from 500 ft to 65 ft. That's going from one extreme to the other in the blink of an eye.
I dont really mind the radar being stretched out a bit,but I think 65 AGL is a bit too low..I would like to see it at about 150.. Falcon23 :salute
it's 8ft over CV flightdeck :DIf I have a 13 foot diameter prop though how much then? :D
At the risk of sounding a little foolish, 65 ft does sound a little arbitrary. Does anyone know if the number has historical relevance? Imo 100ft would be better. 65 ft, seems almost ludicrous to run a successful NOE at, even at full concentration with perfectly capable cartoon warriors.
Historical....LOL...are you kidding...how many missions ran at 100 feet...NONE...there are documented cases of NOE but with like, 2 or three planes in the desert...Umm . . . never heard of Ploesti?
NOE didn't happen until after the 1970's
it's 8ft over CV flightdeck :D
Umm . . . never heard of Ploesti?
:headscratch: Funny :headscratch: Holland looks a lot wetter than what I thought for a desert environment & there seems to be a lot more than three aircraft.
Historical....LOL...are you kidding...how many missions ran at 100 feet...NONE...there are documented cases of NOE but with like, 2 or three planes in the desert...
NOE didn't happen until after the 1970's
Our maps are not historically accurate....show me a map that is historically accurate with terrain that depicts France/Europe and then maybe we could discuss what real NOE means....you would have to be a suicide case to NOE into occupied France with German airfields everywhere....you would get slaughtered.
:headscratch: Funny :headscratch: Holland looks a lot wetter than what I thought for a desert environment & there seems to be a lot more than three aircraft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZzgDkFvHbI
Actually no. But I did look it up.
And that mission proves my point. NOE missions were extremly rare and extremly dangerous. So now there is proper risk involved.
So if you run an NOE expect to be slaughtered. Otherwise run a real mission with proper fighter cover. But, see this takes too much time. Players would rather run NOE, kill the FH, take the base, and go to the other side of the map leaving GV's to stop a re take.
From this source:
http://www.b17sam.com/ploesti.html
"The formations, somewhat disorganized by the loss of the lead navigator, descended to 500 feet at Pitesti, 65 miles from the targets. Halfway to the initial point where the final turn was to be made into Ploesti, the 376th Group, followed by the 93rd Bombardment Group, made an erroneous turn southeast toward Bucharest. The other bomb groups, the 389th, 98th, and 44th, continued as briefed. When Ent discovered the error, both groups headed back toward Ploesti. The 376th was told to strike targets of opportunity, and the 93rd attacked the original targets from the opposite direction as briefed.
The return flight to Libya was disorganized and under heavy German fighter attack for much of the way. In all, 54 planes were lost, but the bombing destroyed up to 42 percent of Ploesti's cracking capacity. The AAF's 30 percent losses meant that a follow-up mission was not practical, and with no opposition, the Germans were able to repair the facilities rapidly. Five officers received the Medal of Honor for bravery on this mission.
"
Who needs this NOE thing anyway? ;)- thndregg
Send advanced recon in, kill dar. End of story.That would work only some parts of the time and only if you don't have people watching the map for the red dar that keeps fluctuating up and down when a base is flashing.
<S>
Rokit
Also send in 2 or 3 formation of heavies to drop the FH and VH. Everyone else comes in gvs or as normal.It wont be that easy anymore. Not saying it cant be done, but now these NOE hordlings will have to depend on those 2 or 3 guys to get the mission successfull.
This is the funnest Titanic Tuesday that I have had in a long time!!! :banana:
styal
do bomber drones show up on dar? because you cant get them under 65' however low the lead buff is ...NOE missions should not be flows with drones. (<-- big period)
2 or 3 competent people coming in at 15,000+ will have a decent chance. Couple that people hitting the dar at several bases; and with a distraction NOE mission to cause confusion. The point is that this won't change anything the hordlings as you call them will still figure out ways to have "gamey" game play. While it will be harder to do NOE base grabs it is still entirely possible but now it's going to be even worse for the furballers because the FH will be dropped. Every time. Some might figure that this change unfairly targets them and their style of game play so they decide to play fun police. Some will say if my way has been "nerfed" lets ruin the furballers fun.Still will be alot harder than the old way of making a base flash and staying below 500 feet. Having it at 65 feet will make it harder to hide those tardish 25 smash grab missions especially over land. Dar bar fluctuating up and down rapidly will alert the enemy well before hand, especially now with the dar ring way out. Yes it can still be done, but I praise HTC on the change. As the game grows, people should learn that taking bases is the means by which to fight and create fun for everybody. Im not a "furballer", "landgrabber" or "toolshedder". I like to mix things up and enjoy every aspect of the game.
NOE missions should not be flows with drones. (<-- big period)
There is no justification for driving a tight 3 ship formation intended for level bombing when using the bombers as attackers.
Umm . . . never heard of Ploesti?Careful
NOE missions should not be flows with drones. (<-- big period)Many real life examples of just that.
There is no justification for driving a tight 3 ship formation intended for level bombing when using the bombers as attackers.
Praise God. This will go a long way to thwart the fight-allergic, NOE, milk-running, back slappers. Let's see how much back slapping they do now that they will actually have to fight for fields...<gets popcorn ready>
To me it's just another example of the elite group of whiners who get what they want changed in this game.
Most noe missions succeed solely because very few up to defend.
Have you any proof for that?
About all things in game are being whined about, so you can throw "HT bowed to the whiners" at almost any change in game.
If HTC really would succumb to whining, we would had
- no arena caps
- a changed collision model
- Spit 16 and La 7 perked
because the "whines" about them outnumbered the NOE whines by several magnitudes.
And why is it that way? Most players are not sitting in tower all the time, watching the map. You just can't instantly jump here and there. Especially not if you are severely outnumbered and the enemy is launching NOEs in rapid succession in different parts of the map with 20+ pilots each.
And that is what probably caused the changes - "abuse" of that feature. NOEs are fun to fly and (for me) often fun to defend again... they can break a stale map position and get another front, another fight going. Personally I never asked for them to be removed, I always had much in in trying to guess the next attack and to go goon hunting...
But last Sunday was a prime example of what's going wrong. One side was completely outnumbering the other one, and only then the NOE'S started rolling. And not just one or two. It went on for hours, always rapidly switching target at the first sign of resistance. For gameplay, this was a catastrophe.
Just to emphasize again, I'm not completely happy with the change... but I do see where it came from.
2 or 3 competent people coming in at 15,000+ will have a decent chance. Couple that people hitting the dar at several bases; and with a distraction NOE mission to cause confusion. The point is that this won't change anything the hordlings as you call them will still figure out ways to have "gamey" game play. While it will be harder to do NOE base grabs it is still entirely possible but now it's going to be even worse for the furballers because the FH will be dropped. Every time. Some might figure that this change unfairly targets them and their style of game play so they decide to play fun police. Some will say if my way has been "nerfed" lets ruin the furballers fun.
I am sure the non-furballers will adapt and respond to the changes, they always have done in the past.
There are ways to overcome the latest changes and I'm sure some of the more 'adept' guys will realise them within a short time.
Would be kind of funny if all it led to was a huge increase in hoard sizes and FH's being dropped all the time.
Lusche - Many, many times when I played I (in fact most of the 367th, and others) bailed out of planes to up against an NOE.
Upping against an NOE or capped field and successfully defending it was very satisfying.
You just had to completely forget about your score.
Lusche - Many, many times when I played I (in fact most of the 367th, and others) bailed out of planes to up against an NOE.
Upping against an NOE or capped field and successfully defending it was very satisfying.
You just had to completely forget about your score.
I'm not rtb'ing because of my score. The slightly lower K/D would be more than made up by a huge increase in K/H if I wouldplay that way.
But last Sunday was a prime example of what's going wrong. One side was completely outnumbering the other one, and only then the NOE'S started rolling. And not just one or two. It went on for hours, always rapidly switching target at the first sign of resistance. For gameplay, this was a catastrophe.
Frankly I think 65ft is taking the ****, 150-->200 would have been a better initial step to see what effects it has.
Careful, Lusche, they are going to put you into the furballer catagory.
I don't remember HTC asking me or anyone actually if noes are a problem that needed fixing. Did I miss a poll that was taken on this?
I rarely get on the boards because it's just the same people whining about this or that or abusing some poor guy about their english or spelling.I did a self imposed PNG for the above reason.
But last Sunday was a prime example of what's going wrong. One side was completely outnumbering the other one, and only then the NOE'S started rolling. And not just one or two. It went on for hours, always rapidly switching target at the first sign of resistance. For gameplay, this was a catastrophe.
I did a self imposed PNG for the above reason.
I am back now because the elitist crap that fills these boards is driving me crazy. (Crazier?) There needs to be more opposing opinions to the "I like their tears" set.
Though, I am guilty of being a vocabulary dweeb. Sorry.
Back to the OP, the change of radar settings seems to lend tacit approval to the whiners of the "win teh fitez" group who think the history of air combat was to just have dog fights.
The next two items on the whine list will be the removal of gvs and the removal of destructable(?) ground targets.
Especially when it is or was considered to be a community controlled game.Pyro doesn't make settings changes for any other reason but to fix what he see's as a potential problem in gameplay. AH has NEVER been a community controlled game. Where on Earth did you get that? Lastly, For you to think that HTC is caving in to a small band of elite whiners, or whatever you called them, proves that you honestly do not know of what you speak.
I guess it is. It is just a very small part of the community.
NOE below 65' aww no biggie - are the trees gonna get kill points? - cuz there was alot of tree abuse last night, just think what the enviro weenies are gonna say about that :cry
All seeing 20 mile radar - not possible gentlemen especially in WWII era.
And I lament the loss of my beloved deep strike missions - nothing better than grabbing a base 6 sectors to the rear - talk about starting a fight when the front line scanners woke up HHHOOOOO WEEEEEE.
However life goes on and changes will be made - time to adapt.
Going to need to spread the bases out, as it appears overlap will now be an issue, unless of course terrain masking and chaff will come into play.
Let the flaming begin again :rock
HP
I don't remember HTC asking me or anyone actually if noes are a problem that needed fixing. Did I miss a poll that was taken on this?
Especially when it is or was considered to be a community controlled game.
I guess it is. It is just a very small part of the community.
Wow ... Where did you get the idea that the amount of money to goes into HTC's coffers is "community controlled" ? Were that true ... HTC would have gone out of business a long time ago.Actually, the amount of money is controlled by the individuals in the community.
I am sure the non-furballers will adapt and respond to the changes, they always have done in the past.
There are ways to overcome the latest changes and I'm sure some of the more 'adept' guys will realise them within a short time.
Would be kind of funny if all it led to was a huge increase in hoard sizes and FH's being dropped all the time.
Lusche - Many, many times when I played I (in fact most of the 367th, and others) bailed out of planes to up against an NOE.
Upping against an NOE or capped field and successfully defending it was very satisfying.
You just had to completely forget about REALITY BASED GAMEPLAY.
Already the wheels are turning to figure out new ways to take bases. In the quick sketch you present above variation has been added to the game for the attackers and the defenders. This is good for everyone and this is what many of us have been encouraging the large horde squads to do. I hope the land-grabbers invent all kinds of new techniques for bravely capturing land. The best thing that could happen is that the rest of the players care that they are doing it and battles occur over that precious cartoon real estate.You missed a cogent point. The biggest complaint I have seen on the boards from the furballers and others is that the "toolshedders" drop FH thereby killing a furball. This change is going to make that happen ever more. Some will see it as their mission in the game to cause as many problems with people's furballs by killing the FH at nearby bases, thus stopping combat for one side. This in turn will cause more whining on the boards about "toolshedding fun police", see http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,290874.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,290874.0.html). Where as this is going to promote combat, it's also going to promote even more gamey tactics to insure a base capture and/or just to cause people grief.
As Rufusleaking stated in another thread. Since the late 80's early 90's there has been a prevalent attitude of participation instead of true competition. What this means is there is a large group of people that think that everything should be easier for them. That or they have an overblown sense of entitlement. Some of these people want things to be easy and won't stick around long if there isn't some instant or almost instant gratification. Let alone put up with the hazing/abuse they will receive in all the MAs(all 4 of them). Of course why should they have to put up with that crap in something they pay for.
Guys this game has reached the point that the following question is askable: Are we so afraid of losing a fight of any kind that we accept being safe and bored in a rinse and repeat rut?NOE was not the only rut. I just land when confronted with a bunch of B&Z guys. It gets boring real fast.
I think HTC answered this question for us with the DAR change. Why aren't we discussing how to use this change to our advantage as opposed to telling everyone in this Forum how "Absolutely Inflexible Most of YOU Seem to BE" in a game that requires maximum mental agility to even HO successfully?Best post yet. :salute (Only three spelling corrections.)
You "cater to the ninnies" ninnies blow my mind. Save your teary whines for someone else. You will NEVER gain my sympathy.Call me “Don Quixote,” but I am going to take one more pass at the windmill.
...and they will never shut down all of the fighter hangers in an area large enough to keep fighters out of the air in a given region. Yes, they may take down a base, maybe even two, but there will be one nearby that a person can up from, and at the very least, go hunt bombers. At the very least hunting bombers is more fun that chasing packs of ghey NOEers around for hours.
You missed a cogent point. The biggest complaint I have seen on the boards from the furballers and others is that the "toolshedders" drop FH thereby killing a furball. This change is going to make that happen ever more. Some will see it as their mission in the game to cause as many problems with people's furballs by killing the FH at nearby bases, thus stopping combat for one side.
Yeah, I already did that to two bases where there were furballs and we took them soon after. Why use NOE when you can bomb from 25k+, kill FH's and get yelled at on 200? A single B17 can take out FH's at 2 bases if you're a decent pilot. It's just more fun now because of all the people who were excited about not having to chase NoE'ers will complain about the other side of the Y plane.
Yes, there may be other bases close by, but that means we just use more bombers and level everything we come to. Furball squashed :) (This was a tactic used before, now it's just going to become even more common place!)
Maybe the hardcore furballers will want a cap on alt?
....Soooooo.....get ready for the return of the more challenging bomb sight?
True furballers only want to pick and fight. They don't care about base defense, because if they did, they wouldn't whine if the hangers fell. I don't care that they lowered the dar or expanded the ring, I'm not super NoE supportive, but it was moved to the Hard level of options to change the game up, yet furballers want it to stay the same.. how does that work exactly?
- oldman
Here's where I have an issue with this. Furballers either only want to furball, or find many things to do and don't complain if one base is down. Those that ONLY want to furball and not help with any sort of base capture or defense, should go to the DA where they have this nifty thing called Furball Island.
I have been in the field for 3 days sleeping in the rain....and this is what I come back too.
Time for some base takers to befriend some of us furballers.....
You "cater to the ninnies" ninnies blow my mind. Save your teary whines for someone else. You will NEVER gain my sympathy.You miss the point. How many new people have you seen in game that take constructive criticism as an adult? My post wasn't about sympathy just trying to get people to realize that if you completely destroy people and then heap abuse on them, or hazing as some view it, you run a very real risk of chasing someone off from the game if not the hobby of simming. A game like this can only benefit from a large group of people. It makes sense to keep as many around as possible rather than run them off. You want to cut down on the NOEs catch the newer players early and show them other ways of doing things not just NOE smash and grab.
...and they will never shut down all of the fighter hangers in an area large enough to keep fighters out of the air in a given region. Yes, they may take down a base, maybe even two, but there will be one nearby that a person can up from, and at the very least, go hunt bombers. At the very least hunting bombers is more fun that chasing packs of ghey NOEers around for hours.
Those that ONLY want to furball and not help with any sort of base capture or defense, should go to the DA where they have this nifty thing called Furball Island.
...if you completely destroy people and then heap abuse on them, or hazing as some view it, you run a very real risk of chasing someone off from the game if not the hobby of simming.
Why should we have to? Why should we have to move if we don't play how you want us to play? I find the whole base capturing thing boring as I've 'been there and done that' many years ago. The MA is open to all and that is where I choose to play.
ack-ack
Actually, the amount of money is controlled by the individuals in the community.
Australia?
Was going to reactivate my account once I completed my move to Sydney next month,
Australia?
You gents do know that the guys who flew the NOE missions for real often brought pieces of trees, or broken props back from hitting the water.
The Beaufighter guys flew low level as a rule, many leaving parachutes behind as they were to low to bail. 50 feet was was high with 20 feet being best. They often got salt water sprayed all over the windscreen and could tell they were low enough by the prop wash kicking up water behind them. Practice was to climb to 200 feet just before the target to allow for a shallow dive. When going after shipping, if you were low enough you could see the silhouette of the ships on the horizion.
And we're talking hand flying it all the way on 5-7 hour missions with no autopilot to help them.
Dropping the radar height if anything just adds to the challenge and the realism. Now if I could only get me a Beaufighter :)
Yup, fly out July 20th.Congrats then on your move you will have fun. :aok
Getting out of the UK before total meltdown!
One thing I noticed with some of these overlapping radar rings now you only have to spawn on the runway & the enemy base next door is flashing :headscratch: I see the potential for a lot of abuses taking place with that happening.
No you didn't.
Base warning ranges didn't change, only the dot dar range did.
One thing I noticed with some of these overlapping radar rings now you only have to spawn on the runway & the enemy base next door is flashing :headscratch: I see the potential for a lot of abuses taking place with that happening.
Right but if two bases are close enough and each base is in the others radar ring, then what lyric says is accurate.
You gents do know that the guys who flew the NOE missions for real often brought pieces of trees, or broken props back from hitting the water.
....and Hitech said that the flashing range is still 12 miles even tho the dar ring has been moved to 20 miles. So the over lapping circle will show dots, but will not set off the flash warning.
Dar ring used to be 15?
....and Hitech said that the flashing range is still 12 miles even tho the dar ring has been moved to 20 miles. So the over lapping circle will show dots, but will not set off the flash warning.If your more than 65 feet above ground it will though? So as soon as you take off an overlapping radar ring & hit 65 feet the red dot and alert will take place correct?
ONLY the dot..the ALARM is still set at 12 miles.:aok Got it. Now i asked the question earlier in the thread & has not been answered yet. What part of the aircraft is deemed to be the portion that sets off the radar as in dar bar or red dot or base flashing center,top,bottom?
12. Dar diameter was slightly smaller that a sector grid.
Thats the whole point though isn't it?Open to all & you will have to do some work to get the perk points to up perk Planes? Sorry that is how it is.
"MA is open to all" and therefore open to all forms of gameplay.
If it is open to all? Why are there perk points in the MA?
Thats the whole point though isn't it?
"MA is open to all" and therefore open to all forms of gameplay.
If it is open to all? Why are there perk points in the MA?
Do perks point make the MA not open to all styles of gameplay?
You can furball, grab bases, fly buffs, hunt buffs, do CV battles, fly NOE raids and so on without a single perk point.
Base-taking spawns fights......us furballers get mad when yall land grabbers go NOE or drop the FH because you kill those fights.......Sorry, logic check . . . going NOE into an undefended base to get a sneak capture kills a fight . . . how? There's no fight there to kill.
This is the best thing to hit Aces High since Ive been in the game, I hope it stays. :rock
Thinking about the whole 20 mile dot dar thing.
I think it changes nothing.
I would have had increased the air warning range instead of the radar range "We know something is out there, but it's not on screen yet"
It changes a few things. Not for the standard from A to B base attack stuff, or even the "furballers".
But for the single buff pilot trying to hit a target (strats for example) deep behind enemy lines. On many maps you could skip dars by careful mission planning - while that did not made him totally invisible (thanks to darbar and flashing tonws), it still left any potential interceptor with some kind of guesswork. As a dedicated buff hunter, I did like that.
Now he's in plain sight all of the time. Single glance will always reveal not only where he exactly is, but also where he's going to. He'S just back to brute force & ignorance, instead of being more able to increase his survival chances by planning his route.
Not unrealistic, but I liked the old gameplay aspect more, even though it made "my job" much easier.
Also, the base radars are now overlapping very much. For example, right now you have many airbases in LWO that are within the radar circle of one or even several vehicle bases one sector away. With the new 65ft alt limit, you are basically "on screen" as soon as you take of. I do not like that either.
If anyone had asked me (of course nobody ever does :furious) I would have lowered the dar alt to maby 100ft, but left the radar range to 12 miles. Maybe I would have had increased the air warning range instead of the radar range "We know something is out there, but it's not on screen yet"
....and Hitech said that the flashing range is still 12 miles even tho the dar ring has been moved to 20 miles. So the over lapping circle will show dots, but will not set off the flash warning.
Sorry, logic check . . . going NOE into an undefended base to get a sneak capture kills a fight . . . how? There's no fight there to kill.
But for the single buff pilot trying to hit a target (strats for example) deep behind enemy lines. On many maps you could skip dars by careful mission planning - while that did not made him totally invisible (thanks to darbar and flashing tonws), it still left any potential interceptor with some kind of guesswork. As a dedicated buff hunter, I did like that.
Now he's in plain sight all of the time. Single glance will always reveal not only where he exactly is, but also where he's going to. He'S just back to brute force & ignorance, instead of being more able to increase his survival chances by planning his route.
Not unrealistic, but I liked the old gameplay aspect more, even though it made "my job" much easier.
I said no such thing, I said the warning range was the same as it was before. I never looked at the current settings which is different for fighters, bombers and vehicles.
HiTech
This is my last post on the topic since I have appeared to have wandered from a general discussion to a trolling zone.
WW2 did not have radar that covered 65ft alt.
and just so I am absolutely clear, this was done purely to appease the scoretard whiners who dont like noe.
done here.
Location: Sinking your CV......with a Sherman.:rofl
I don't see what all the uproar is about, these new NOE missions are fun. :D
(http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq278/GenBeef/B25NOE.png)
Wow ... Where did you get the idea that the amount of money to goes into HTC's coffers is "community controlled" ? Were that true ... HTC would have gone out of business a long time ago.
Yeah ... it's a "community" of "one" ... and that "one" writes the coad.
the lowering of radar level is designed to stop almost all noes.
hardly, it just means that an NOE raid requires some skill rather than being the easiest option. just like RL.
Many real life examples of just that.
Ah been waiting on this.
As the furballers are so keen in pointing out - This is not RL.
I pointed out earlier Rl and realism are very subjective and very biased depending on which group you fall into.
so which group do I fall into? I hate furballing and I hate mass NOE raids.
I like the altitude of the new radar settings. I really don't like the extended ranges./---------------------------
It turns the MA in to one big Dueling Arena. Everybody knows where everyone is at all times. I like the uncertainty of not knowing where the enemy is at times, it keeps you working to keep your six clear. Now with the new settings you can take off set auto level at a con and go to sleep until your both HO'ing each other.
I like flying FSO and occasionally AvA. The MA's can have a little of that feel without all the radar. Really, most times in WWII there was no radar to tell everyone where the bad guys are. The new extended ranges stink if I want the DA I'll go to the DA........
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Thank you HTC. :aok
HiTech
I don't see what all the uproar is about, these new NOE missions are fun. :DGood one :aok
(http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq278/GenBeef/B25NOE.png)
I don't see what all the uproar is about, these new NOE missions are fun. :D
(http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq278/GenBeef/B25NOE.png)
Historical....LOL...are you kidding...how many missions ran at 100 feet...NONE...there are documented cases of NOE but with like, 2 or three planes in the desert...
NOE didn't happen until after the 1970's
If it is open to all? Why are there perk points in the MA?
Am I a furballer when I approve the new dar altitude and the reasons behind that decision? :headscratch:
hardly, it just means that an NOE raid requires some skill rather than being the easiest option. just like RL.
Oh the hordes! What will they do now? :aok :rofl
so which group do I fall into? I hate furballing and I hate mass NOE raids.¿Toolshedder? :D
It kills fights because some run from undefended base to undefended base. The minute they encounter resistance they abandon the current objective to move onto another undefended base. There is no fight too kill because some do not wish to fight, they would rather display their prowess against objects that don't move, and with the exception of auto ack doesn't shoot back.
Why do you care if some guys displays prowess against some object that doesnt move? Are you paying their subscriptions? What your really mad about is that they refused to give you an easy kill. The score tards want all of the noobs furballing so that they can have the glory of 1000's of kills. Maybe they can have the name in lights on the HTC web site. Then after some of those guys shoot down the noob, they PM him and trash talk him. No wonder some of those guys leave after their two week trial is over.
Who cares what they do? This is a fine example of the problem. Each person if he is a two week noob or a 2 year experienced player pays his monthly subscription to HTC to play this fun game the way they see fit. Some like to GV, some like to NOE base take. Some like to furball. Some simply enjoy defending airfields with Wirbles. The furballers complained about NOE raids so HTC gave in and changed that. Now I see from another thread that they want the bombers to be perked. Whats next?
Last time I checked this was a combat simulation. Not real. Some of these guys think it is real. Why don't people play there game the way they like to play it and not worry about what the other guys are doing. Even with NOE missions going on there are always plenty of furballs to get into. I dropped hangers in the middle of a furball awhile back and the local armchair general came on channel mad as heck about it. I told the armchair general that I didn't recall him paying my monthly subscription fees to HTC. When he starts paying them we can then discuss his complaint.
I love this game it is addicting. My wife doesn't like it at times. At the end of the day it is only a game. If you don't like NOE raids why don't you defend your bases against them? Most of the guys complaining are the score hounds who probably play with their flight suits on, and wear a fighter pilot jacket when its 100 degrees outside, and are still mad because the Air Force wouldn't accept them into flight school.
I do not really like to fly fighters. I enjoy attack planes,and attack missions, GV's and bombers. It is starting to look like the only acceptable way to play the game is to fly in the furball.
Salute Bear76. I dont mind the ENY thing. Makes you try out different planes. That's how I learned to fly the Mossy!!!
No one's stopping you from playing "your way". HTC doesn't do things anyone's way, they do what they feel is best for game play. If what you say is true, there would be no ENY. Go count all the "I hate ENY" threads.
Why do you care if some guys displays prowess against some object that doesnt move? Are you paying their subscriptions? What your really mad about is that they refused to give you an easy kill. The score tards want all of the noobs furballing so that they can have the glory of 1000's of kills. Maybe they can have the name in lights on the HTC web site. Then after some of those guys shoot down the noob, they PM him and trash talk him. No wonder some of those guys leave after their two week trial is over.
A few simple thoughts.
1. Best way to win a war is to hit the enemy where they ain't.
2. Best way to have fun in a combat orientated game is to have combat.
3. Attacking undefended targets is not combat even though it is the best strategy to win.
Who cares what they do? This is a fine example of the problem. Each person if he is a two week noob or a 2 year experienced player pays his monthly subscription to HTC to play this fun game the way they see fit. Some like to GV, some like to NOE base take. Some like to furball. Some simply enjoy defending airfields with Wirbles. The furballers complained about NOE raids so HTC gave in and changed that. Now I see from another thread that they want the bombers to be perked. Whats next?
Last time I checked this was a combat simulation.
5. Defense now has more warning on a strike and time to organize a defense, so now we are more likely to have an offense and defense playing against each other instead of 2 offenses playing by themselves.
Why don't people play there game the way they like to play it and not worry about what the other guys are doing.
Even with NOE missions going on there are always plenty of furballs to get into. I dropped hangers in the middle of a furball awhile back and the local armchair general came on channel mad as heck about it. I told the armchair general that I didn't recall him paying my monthly subscription fees to HTC. When he starts paying them we can then discuss his complaint.
At the end of the day it is only a game. If you don't like NOE raids why don't you defend your bases against them?
4. This is a game and not work or war. Expecting some one to be on defense with no idea if a strike is coming is not a legitimate expectation. Hence, you should defend your field is not a legitimate argument if it requires some one to do a very boring act with no guaranty of combat.
Most of the guys complaining are the score hounds who probably play with their flight suits on, and wear a fighter pilot jacket when its 100 degrees outside, and are still mad because the Air Force wouldn't accept them into flight school.
2. Best way to have fun in a combat orientated game is to have combat.
3. Attacking undefended targets is not combat even though it is the best strategy to win.
I do not really like to fly fighters. I enjoy attack planes,and attack missions, GV's and bombers. It is starting to look like the only acceptable way to play the game is to fly in the furball.
I must be thicker than I thought - as Im really not seeing what the big deal is. I can see how the range increase could cause a few issues, but the dropping from 500 to 65ft?+1
Come on guys, whilst noe's were utilised in WW2, they were not every single attack. No one can accuse me of being a furball elitist, as I do what I like, when I like, in what I like (and yeah, see sig for details)
If you cant fly noe all the time, come up with an attack plan - send in 1 brave soul to despatch radar - leave it 2 mins or so, launch your attack.........sure, that act of taking out radar will give the clue that its being prepped, but no one will know for sure its going to be hit.
Use a bit of ingenuity, stop whining (its giving me a headache :D) and at least give it a week or so to settle down...
Wurzel
Notice those crying the loudest about the changes are the ones not skilled enough to be able to fly NOE or have the intelligence and fortitude to adapt to the new changes? I sure have.
ack-ack
Basically what you are saying is that I must play the game your way or I lack skill, fortitude and intelligence. Or if someone makes a comment about the game that you disagree with they are crying..
Sorry Ack-Ack, I didnt mean to offend the Aces High elite like yourself!!!!
Radar at 65 feet now? Damn it. :mad:
I was just about to start a new Spit XVI NOE horde squad - "The Rainbow Coalition".
Recruiting should be easy :D
You better believe it. I had 14 wings all filled in, ready to go. ;)
Hm... I have to admit, the longer I play, the less i like the increased radar ranges...
English visioned by myself!?Regardless of whether one agrees with the posts, I salute lulu for hanging in this thread, with English as a second language, no less. :salute
:salute
Hm... I have to admit, the longer I play, the less i like the increased radar ranges... :uhohIt will take some getting used to seeing dots now without a corresponding dar bar.
I wonder if these RAF pilots whined about having to fly 65ft or lower as loud as some have been in these forums.
RAF raid on Philips Radio Works factory (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZzgDkFvHbI&feature=player_embedded)
Learn and adapt or get off the pot.Adapt or leave? Definitely not the right answer. People playing the game is good. People leaving the game is bad. “Play my way or play offline” is B.S.
Why do you care if some guy displays prowess against some object that doesnt move? Are you paying their subscriptions? What your really mad about is that they refused to give you an easy kill. The score tards want all of the noobs furballing so that they can have the glory of 1000's of kills. Maybe they can have the name in lights on the HTC web site. Then after some of those guys shoot down the noob, they PM him and trash talk him. No wonder some of those guys leave after their two week trial is over.
Who cares what they do? This is a fine example of the problem. Each person if he is a two week noob or a 2 year experienced player pays his monthly subscription to HTC to play this fun game the way they see fit. Some like to GV, some like to NOE base take. Some like to furball. Some simply enjoy defending airfields with Wirbles. The furballers complained about NOE raids so HTC gave in and changed that. Now I see from another thread that they want the bombers to be perked. Whats next?
Last time I checked this was a combat simulation. Not real. Some of these guys think it is real. Why don't people play there game the way they like to play it and not worry about what the other guys are doing. Even with NOE missions going on there are always plenty of furballs to get into. I dropped hangers in the middle of a furball awhile back and the local armchair general came on channel mad as heck about it. I told the armchair general that I didn't recall him paying my monthly subscription fees to HTC. When he starts paying them we can then discuss his complaint.
I love this game it is addicting. My wife doesn't like it at times. At the end of the day it is only a game. If you don't like NOE raids why don't you defend your bases against them? Most of the guys complaining are the score hounds who probably play with their flight suits on, and wear a fighter pilot jacket when its 100 degrees outside, and are still mad because the Air Force wouldn't accept them into flight school.
I do not really like to fly fighters. I enjoy attack planes,and attack missions, GV's and bombers. It is starting to look like the only acceptable way to play the game is to fly in the furball.
I have been playing for about one year. I always treat brand new guys with respect and teach them what I can about the game. I am really surprised at how some of the so called veterans (Term used for discussion purposes only. I am a veteran and have respect for other military veterans) treat these new players. There are some really good Bish squads who let these guys fly with them and teach them. There are others who kick them to the curb and kick them out of their missions. That certainly makes a guy feel welcome.
Adapt or leave? Definitely not the right answer. People playing the game is good. People leaving the game is bad. “Play my way or play offline” is B.S.
Regardless of whether one agrees with the posts, I salute lulu for hanging in this thread, with English as a second language, no less. :salute
A side note: subconsciously, I read lulu’s posts in a foreign accent.
Ack-Ack,
Bases are undefended also because they are leaved so by players who
like other style of combat more.
:salute
Adapt or leave? Definitely not the right answer. People playing the game is good. People leaving the game is bad. “Play my way or play offline” is B.S.
Aren't you one of those, "Get to the DA Furball Lake" guys?Furball lake is a paid subscriber area.
Furball lake is a paid subscriber area.
You have a point here?
Adapt or leave? Definitely not the right answer. People playing the game is good. People leaving the game is bad. “Play my way or play offline” is B.S.
Incorrect. Those that used to engage in the 20-30 man NOE hord raids always targeted undefended bases because to do otherwise would invite something they try to avoid with these mass NOE raids...combat.
ack-ack
I thought my point was clear. Anyway, guys of your ilk typically make statements like the following, "If you don't like NOE missions and the way we take bases then get out of the MA and get to the DA furball lake." That is pretty much the same thing as what you are saying is bad right here:My ilk?
Some vocal cliques on the forums need to accept that there are people who might want to explore different aspects of the game than fighter on fighter combat.
My ilk?
Anyway, my last post was already way too close to a flame or troll, and I was considering withdrawing it.
Some vocal cliques on the forums need to accept that there are people who might want to explore different aspects of the game than fighter on fighter combat.
Live an let play.
Some vocal cliques on the forums need to accept that there are people who might want to explore different aspects of the game than fighter on fighter combat.
My ilk?
Anyway, my last post was already way too close to a flame or troll, and I was considering withdrawing it.
Some vocal cliques on the forums need to accept that there are people who might want to explore different aspects of the game than fighter on fighter combat.
Live an let play.
that may be true, but the biggest division between players I see here is between those that look for combat (of any kind), and those who avoid it.
As Sunbat pointed out, your post is ripe with hypocrisy and irony. You and your kind have always repeatedly told those that don't agree with your playing style to either start playing your way or move on. You should learn to heed your own lessons before trying to impart them on others.Flame wars are pointless.
BTW- I never told the whining OP to 'play my way', I only suggested he learn to adapt to the new changes. Far different from your cries and the others like you.
ack-ack
Incorrect. Those that used to engage in the 20-30 man NOE hord raids always targeted undefended bases because to do otherwise would invite something they try to avoid with these mass NOE raids...combat.
ack-ack
You think you know me and those that you and your ilk refer to as "furballers" and you think that all we like is pure aerial combat.I don’t know you beyond what you post. I occasionally ilk-run, sure, but I am not sure who I represent other than myself.
… I can speak with some amount of authority being that I fly with a squad that would probably be one of the most likely to fall in your stereotypical category. While we do enjoy the aerial combat aspect of the game the most, we enjoy it all and can be found participating in all of it.No argument from me on this point. In game, I have never had any problems with you all, except the too frequent trips to the tower.
We just hate seeing the game damaged by a style of game play that does not promote competition but rather deprives the game of players by focusing them into large groups who effectively become one large player that does not fight or compete.I disagree. Capturing bases is competition. NOEs may have become an abused exploit, but it was (and is) within the framework of the game.
Anyway, spin that broken record and continue to lump ppl into big all-encompassing categories so you can easily dismiss their observations and opinions.Please forgive me for lumping people into an “ilk.” I am not dismissing your opinions. In fact, I am enjoying the responses. I sincerely intend to remain respectful as I go forward in my posting, but I slip from time to time.
Ack-Ack,
Bases are undefended also because they are leaved so by players who
like other style of combat more.
:salute
This game being about combat and all, it makes sense that players should be encouraged to fight each other, be it air, ground, or sea.
i THINK MANY ARE STEREOTYPICALLY PLACING EVERY ONE IN ONE GROUP OR OTHER, WRONGLY, SAME WAY THEY DO WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT "SPIT PILOT" OR "la PILOTS" OR hURRI... ect ect
SUNBAT IS CORRECT
ack ack IS CORRECT
1bONER IS CORRECT
RufusLeaking IS CORRECT,
....ect ect
Much of the criticism of NOE raids has always been misplaced. You don't fly NOE to avoid combat. You fly NOE to gain the advantage of surprise so as to win the ensuing combat. You can't possibly avoid combat flying so low that it takes all of ten seconds for the enemy to take off and engage you. If you want to avoid combat you fly at 30k where no one can possibly catch you. Or you fly in enormous hordes so the enemy is intimidated out of even trying to resist. But flying in that huge horde is no less a problem if you come in at 10k than it is at 100 feet.
The trouble with that statement as it relates to the recent changes is that it assumes player response will be what you (or more importantly, hitech) hope it will be. But that isn't the path of last resistance, and the path of least resistance is what you're most likely to see.
In this case the path of least resistance is to send bomb-and-bailers to pork every radar within three sectors and then bring in buffs at 25k+ to drop all the hangers at the target base before bringing in fighters, town killers, and troops. It's also to fly in even bigger hordes than before.
And that's exactly what I've been seeing for the past three nights.
I agree 110% with agent.
AKAK, got film on that 7 v 1? Saw you mention it last night, I'd like to see it.
The trouble with that statement as it relates to the recent changes is that it assumes player response will be what you (or more importantly, hitech) hope it will be. But that isn't the path of last resistance, and the path of least resistance is what you're most likely to see.
In this case the path of least resistance is to send bomb-and-bailers to pork every radar within three sectors and then bring in buffs at 25k+ to drop all the hangers at the target base before bringing in fighters, town killers, and troops. It's also to fly in even bigger hordes than before.
And that's exactly what I've been seeing for the past three nights.
None of these changes is for the better. None of them encourages more fighting; in fact, they encourage less fighting and bigger hordes at the fights that do occur. With all the dar down people who want to up alone or in a pair and go hunting will have a much, much tougher time finding a fight. The only reliable way to find a fight will be to go to where there are 20-30 friendlies and an equally big enemy dar bar.
You'll also see more GVs and fewer fighters in base takes. Instead of scrambling fighters to intercept an incoming raid, you'll be scrambling them to dive-bomb incoming tanks. I don't think there are many players who find that more exciting.
Believe me, I'm not saying this because I think that's how things should go, I'm saying it because I regret that that's how things will go. And I'm not complaining because it will make taking bases harder - if it's harder for me, it's harder for the enemy too, so that's all good. I'm complaining because it will encourage worse gameplay, not better.
Much of the criticism of NOE raids has always been misplaced. You don't fly NOE to avoid combat. You fly NOE to gain the advantage of surprise so as to win the ensuing combat. You can't possibly avoid combat flying so low that it takes all of ten seconds for the enemy to take off and engage you. If you want to avoid combat you fly at 30k where no one can possibly catch you. Or you fly in enormous hordes so the enemy is intimidated out of even trying to resist. But flying in that huge horde is no less a problem if you come in at 10k than it is at 100 feet.
I enjoy defending against base takes at least as much as taking bases, and there's little in AH that excites me more than seeing 10-12 enemies pop up in an NOE raid. I know that if I up there I'll be in for a vicious knife fight and a challenging defense, and if a few other friendlies up we have a fighting chance to foil the attack. It's when the bad guys come in at 20k+ or in hordes of 30 or more that I know there's no point in taking off. And that's exactly what this change is already encouraging.
However, I really hope hitec will leave the settings the way they are for a bit rather than giving in to the temptation to keep tinkering in realtime. If he keeps tinkering, the source of the trouble will never be clear, but if we stick with the new settings for a few weeks, it will give everyone a better view of the resulting changes in behavior and what does and doesn't work in encouraging the sort of gameplay they'd like to see.
Now, you see, Ack-Ack, that's the difference between people like RufLeak, Snailman and myself on the one hand and you, Sunbat, and all the other obnoxious jerks on these forums on the other. Some of us try and have an adult discussion presenting reasoned arguments, sometimes agreeing and sometimes disagreeing, while dimwits like you - excuse me, your ilk - just want to sling insults around and think you're making some sort of point. Well, anyone can sling insults when that's the game, but I guess some just don't have the maturity or intelligence to join the adult discussion. Sucks being you.
Oh, and for the record, no more Rejects, we're the Devil's Brigade these days - we trimmed down the roster and merged with the former Screaming Devils.
You're going on about others slinging insults and not acting like adults while slinging insults and rambling on like a child yourself.
And you're complaining about my complaining while you're complaining yourself. :rolleyes:
Again: anyone can insult when that's the game, the question is who is capable of reasoned discussion. There's no bringing down the level of Ack-Ack's discussion because it already started in the gutter (or as close as you can get without using banned language).
Much of the criticism of NOE raids has always been misplaced. You don't fly NOE to avoid combat. You fly NOE to gain the advantage of surprise so as to win the ensuing combat. You can't possibly avoid combat flying so low that it takes all of ten seconds for the enemy to take off and engage you.
It's always amusing reading a post from a member of The Devil's Rejects pronounce how much they enjoy 'combat' when they do nothing but try and avoid it at every step. I'm sure we'll be seeing you and the other Rejects at 35k in bombers bombing some undefended base and trying as hard as you can to avoid combat. Just like you and the others were trying to do last night, though I shouldn't complain...not often do I win a 7v1 fight or rack up so many kills in just a few sorties.
ack-ack
neo-maxi-zoom-dweebery
that custom font still giving you trouble there ink? :lol
Grizz, as much time as you spend in 262s I get a big laugh from you saying anyone else is afraid to fight. When you're not in a 262 you're in a K4 so you can pick and run run run as soon as you don't have a 5k alt advantage. Stay in real (i.e., prop-driven) planes and get down and dirty and mix it up and then I'll have a shred of respect for you. But that will never happen because you might actually drop from # 1 fighter to # 10 or 15 and being the worst score ho in the game you just can't bear to let that happen. And yeah, I know you're a good pilot and could kick my butt in a fair fight - that only makes your neo-maxi-zoom-dweebery all the more pathetic.
Over and out :bolt:
Actually for most members of the squad the death rate is higher than the kill rate. How does that happen when you say that we only take undefended bases?
I would explain why that is, but it would be rather insulting, so I'll pass. :aok
I guess we won't see this anymore :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwKpKAMKJBU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwKpKAMKJBU&feature=related)
we will see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_URHNGCgww&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_URHNGCgww&feature=related)
I wouldn't have posted about, as Sunbat would say, your ilk if I hadn't witnessed your dweebery too many times to count over the past year. Thx for the tip though, but German iron is for men. :aok
I would explain why that is, but it would be rather insulting, so I'll pass. :aok
If all I cared about was attacking undefended bases, my scores would be very good. They are not because I get killed alot trying to attack those undefended bases you talk about.
Thats ok Grizz. Insulting people seems to be what you enjoy the most. You cannot explain it. Thats why you passed. You said that I only take undefended bases and run away from all fights. My scores clearly show that your statement is false. I have seen what you score dweebs do. As soon as you get below 5k and it starts getting hot, you turn and run back to base for fear of getting shot down and losing your kills. Because the score is the most important thing to you..
Thats ok Grizz. Insulting people seems to be what you enjoy the most.
Ouch.
He seems to have you pegged Grizz... Everybody knows that if Grizz can't cherry pick from alt or is out numbered he immediately runs home trying to protect his score. That is his reputation in the community. :rolleyes:
FYI Sky, your score, and your squads score, DO tell us something.
I am quite positive you don't know what that is or why.
Grizz, as much time as you spend in 262s I get a big laugh from you saying anyone else is afraid to fight. When you're not in a 262 you're in a K4 so you can pick and run run run as soon as you don't have a 5k alt advantage. Stay in real (i.e., prop-driven) planes and get down and dirty and mix it up and then I'll have a shred of respect for you. But that will never happen because you might actually drop from # 1 fighter to # 10 or 15 and being the worst score ho in the game you just can't bear to let that happen. And yeah, I know you're a good pilot and could kick my butt in a fair fight - that only makes your neo-maxi-zoom-dweebery all the more pathetic.
Over and out :bolt:
^ great photoshop of a great movie :lol
Inexperienced players can't hide under dar any more so maybe they will go back to the old way of learning the game by trying to hide under trees instead.
WTG HTC!
Or maybe they'll learn to use altitude to hide from real fights like the "experienced" players do.Old dar system: base flashing, no vis on dar: could be a large force coming in or just a lone guy flying low. You had about 2 minutes to ditch, land or whatever and reup at that base and hunt whatever is making the base flash. Knowing this, these guys would imploy other tactics to fool the others ( make X base flash and post a dot NE of the field while the main force will come in SW.) Sure its a successful tactic, but what are you really trying to do here? PREVENT INTERACTION with other players.
There were and still are more guys hiding from real combat using other means than there EVER were supposedly hiding from combat using noe as a tactic.
Lowering the radar to 65 ft. supposedly to "promote combat" ???? LOL!! Thats a really bad joke.
WTG HTC!! :rofl :rofl
Just wondering, isn't a cv deck around 75ft?
57ft
damn dyslexia lol, thanks :)
As long as you can spell dyslexia, you don't really have a problem :D
Old dar system: base flashing, no vis on dar: could be a large force coming in or just a lone guy flying low. You had about 2 minutes to ditch, land or whatever and reup at that base and hunt whatever is making the base flash. Knowing this, these guys would imploy other tactics to fool the others ( make X base flash and post a dot NE of the field while the main force will come in SW.) Sure its a successful tactic, but what are you really trying to do here? PREVENT INTERACTION with other players.
A NOE raid here and there wasnt killing the game. Quite a few times, I log in and that would just go on ALL DAY. So YES, the new way does promote combat. Making them be seen gives you the option to chase them down rather than wonder if its worth landing, or ditching your ride to go to base X.
Is that, 65 feet above sea level, or 65 feet above the terrain you're currently overflying?Has anyone answered this? Truly don't know...(I'm guessing the latter)
Has anyone answered this? Truly don't know...(I'm guessing the latter)the latter...
Sure its a successful tactic, but what are you really trying to do here? PREVENT INTERACTION with other players.
So YES, the new way does promote combat.
What I loathe on defense is a raid coming in at 20k+; I can waste 20 minutes trying to climb to and catch them and eventually run out of fuel and RTB without anyone having fired a shot. What fun is that?
If hitech had to make a change, I think a hard ceiling at 10k would do ten times more to promote good game play than lower radar coverage. That, and take 262s and Tigers out of the game.
That's pretty hilarious coming from a guy whose squad had about 30 planes capping a de-acked small field (A70, I think) the other night with a CV about 500 yards offshore and still couldn't take it.
I for one truly dig the different world of high-altitude combat.
Now this is funny Loki. The Pigs have maybe 45 pilots total, with about 35 active. The most I have ever seen on in one session is 26 (record set several months ago on a Titanic Tuesday), and we average about 14-15 at our high point of attendance every night. So, we don't have 30 planes to cap a field, we didn't even have enough on our record attendance night to cap a field with 30 planes.
Spout your vitriol elsewhere, but Pig bashing won't help prop up your weak arguments.
Presumably some of the nits present weren't Pigs, then. The ones who vulched me on the runway and the ones I killed after finally getting wheels up were.
And interesting, that's more on in one night and more average attendance than our "hoard" ever has. We probably have hit 26 when folks from other squads who join our vox are added in, but even with them it's a rare night that we go over 15, 8-10 at one time is usually the peak. And we generally don't advertise missions. So much for DOGFITE's "personal hoard" - but again, it's nice to know that our impact is perceived as disproportionate to our actual numbers.
Tell it to bustr, then. And please, give the poor guy a dictionary while you're at it.
i have been reading alot of comments on this, and do have one question, what's the height from the bottom of the fuselage to the top of the tail on the bombers say a B-17 or such 20ft? ( just guessing) bet the snailman knows hehe, anyway i degress.... so you would have to factor that into your actual Alt, now you will have to fly with the altimeter reading 40ft just to be safe, it seems that using formations for NOE runs have been taken out of the game land or water they wont go low enough, or are they going to re-adjust the formation settings from there current low alt settings? I'm just curious to this, the change made has changed the games play thats for sure
i have been reading alot of comments on this, and do have one question, what's the height from the bottom of the fuselage to the top of the tail on the bombers say a B-17 or such 20ft? ( just guessing) bet the snailman knows hehe, anyway i degress
You are going the same way as many anti-noe guys: I don't like that part of game, so take it out, screw everyone else.
Its not a matter of what people like or don't like to do.
Its a matter of "promoting combat".
Fighting bombers & escorts at 20k is no combat? We really gonna simulate WW2 planes by flying them on the deck only, thus completely negating aspects & altitudes P-51s, Ta 152s, 109s or Spit 14 were made for?
You can't engage Bombers and fight at 12k??
Why do you need to go higher?
Wouldn't you rather spend your time among the masses who are fighting, rather than wasting all that time to climb to altitudes that are waaaay above the fighting?
Most of the fights occur at lower altitudes, why would anyone want to go higher??
Nonsense. If you don't want to interact with the enemy you fly around at 25k so they can't possibly catch you. Going NOE the enemy can always up and be fighting you in seconds. The point of NOE is to gain the initiative and thereby gain an advantage if the enemy chooses to try to defend the base. He can engage you, but it will be in your time and on your terms rather than on his. It's one way to take a base without overwhelming numbers.Those guys at 25k can stay at 25k. You will find that if you are one them, you will get bored quickly as most of the fights are at med alt. Both parties can select to engage. Me, if I have spare time on my hands, Ill dance with them knowing they cant resist a lower con like me, Ill even throw a few mock shots at 2k to make him think I dont know any better. You drag them lower and lower. You can manipulate that situaion. Or if they arent worth my time, Ill just ditch if they dont play.
I understand the reason for the low dar range, but having the dar ring out so far it even covers your own base is a little much. You can't even take off of your base on some maps without the enemy knowing just where your at. So they either need to make the base's further away from each other ( which no one will like ) or at least shorten the tower radar on maps where the bases ares so close to each other. :airplane:Or just flu NOE until it's time to climb. :bolt:
If you are complaining about the current radar situation because it's TOO reveling for whatever reason you are a six down to ten. Do you want to fight or not? Fighters have a common attiude. Whatever is thrown at them, they will adapt and overcome it. Why are you complaining?
Well, just remove base dar then and make dot dar arena wide, so you can see any dot, any time, anywhere. After all, do you want a fight or not? ;)
Well, just remove base dar then and make dot dar arena wide, so you can see any dot, any time, anywhere. After all, do you want a fight or not? ;)
Well, just remove base dar then and make dot dar arena wide, so you can see any dot, any time, anywhere. After all, do you want a fight or not? ;)
Altitude leveled at only 18K.
I say that the Win teh Warz guys should be happy that they even have an NOE option anymore the way they have abused it so much over the years. I say take NOE out all together. That will end the history debate - which is a silly debate anyway for a game that is far from historical in the MA.
Sounds like HiTech will have to place a 200 perk price on "Nerf Guns" and charge Grizz $50 per/m with all this Hoopla over Radar...... :huhI believe Bustr has the gist of it :aok
No body wants to fly bombers above 12k to be safe.<---But, They want to fly under radar to undefended bases to be safe.
No body wants to be seen on radar to be safe.<---But, They want to pick once they get 12k over a furball to be safe.
No body wants to be seen attacking anything to be safe.<---But, They convince a suicide porker to ruin his own score now to take out all base dar for 6 local bases to be safe.
No body likes HiTech forceing them to fight in the light of day.<---With NOE they could sneak around with the illusion they were controlling some aspect of the fight in their favor.
So why don't those who dislike everyone else in the arena being able to see them now pettition HiTech to create a Star Trek space combat game with Klingon and Romulan cloakable rides so you can fly around invisible and shoot everyone else with no risk?.....That would be safe...right....... :rolleyes:
Oh, Sorry I forgot, eventualy in the Star Trek universe you could track those invisible ships on DAR by takion leak emissions...ooops<---not even this is safe...Oh well.... :rofl