Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: swareiam on November 16, 2009, 03:25:39 PM
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(http://www.modelivery.com/shop/m/modelivery/img-lib/spd_20061009221118_b.jpg)
This question is not can we or why don't we have it? This question is just when will we get it?
I have seen several related pages of post. They are all good points and comments. Just wondering about the when...
Enjoy...
Hans-Ulrich Rudel
(July, 1916 - 1982)
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen9.htm (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen9.htm)
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Ok lets talk tank busting and the JU-87Gs 3.7mm cannon And how it compares to the Soviet NS-37 cannon the IL-2 was armed with.
The German BK 3,7 cannon was belt fed so it had a relatively small ammo load out. I always thought the load out was 16 rounds per gun for an overall 32. Far less then the IL-2, which loads out at 50 per gun.
The NS-37 fired an 760 gram AP round made of hardened steel at 880 m/s, with a ROF of 250 rpm "500 rpm with 2 guns". It was rated to punch thru 50mm of any tanks armor at 200 m. Developing 294,000 joules of muzzle energy.
The BK 3,7 gun of the JU-87G fired a 405 gram tungsten core AP shell at 1,140 m/s with an ROF of 160 rpm "2 guns = 320 rpm", developing 263,000 joules of muzzle energy. I dont remember what this round was rated for penetration-wise but we can assume at least the same as the NS-37.
Strange that the Soviets used tungsten core for their ground anti-tank weapons but not for the NS-37. There were pro and con for the Germans using the smaller tungsten round at a higher velocity. While it would shoot flatter it wouldn't cause as much damage as the heavier 37mm rounds and tungsten was nothing special when it came to secondary burning, "unlike depleted uranium". On the Pro side the round surpassed the 250,000 joule limit of M/E widely believed to be the figure needed to penetrate any WW-ll tank.
So it shot a smaller tungsten round with a faster velocity, at a much slower ROF, a smaller load out. I would bet the JU-87 would be a fine stable platform and this would be an efficient tank killer in the game, as it was in actual use.
The Luftwaffe was very careful in awarding kills to their pilots. I believe Rudel killed all those tanks and think the "G" would be a fine addition to AH. :salute
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Ok lets talk tank busting and the JU-87Gs 3.7mm cannon And how it compares to the Soviet NS-37 cannon the IL-2 was armed with.
The German BK 3,7 cannon was belt fed so it had a relatively small ammo load out. I always thought the load out was 16 rounds per gun for an overall 32. Far less then the IL-2, which loads out at 50 per gun.
The NS-37 fired an 760 gram AP round made of hardened steel at 880 m/s, with a ROF of 250 rpm "500 rpm with 2 guns". It was rated to punch thru 50mm of any tanks armor at 200 m. Developing 294,000 joules of muzzle energy.
The BK 3,7 gun of the JU-87G fired a 405 gram tungsten core AP shell at 1,140 m/s with an ROF of 160 rpm "2 guns = 320 rpm", developing 263,000 joules of muzzle energy. I dont remember what this round was rated for penetration-wise but we can assume at least the same as the NS-37.
Strange that the Soviets used tungsten core for their ground anti-tank weapons but not for the NS-37. There were pro and con for the Germans using the smaller tungsten round at a higher velocity. While it would shoot flatter it wouldn't cause as much damage as the heavier 37mm rounds and tungsten was nothing special when it came to secondary burning, "unlike depleted uranium". On the Pro side the round surpassed the 250,000 joule limit of M/E widely believed to be the figure needed to penetrate any WW-ll tank.
So it shot a smaller tungsten round with a faster velocity, at a much slower ROF, a smaller load out. I would bet the JU-87 would be a fine stable platform and this would be an efficient tank killer in the game, as it was in actual use.
The Luftwaffe was very careful in awarding kills to their pilots. I believe Rudel killed all those tanks and think the "G" would be a fine addition to AH. :salute
Powned
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The 37mm Flak 18 cannons on the Ju 87G-1 and earlier D-3 models only carried 6 rounds per gun pod for a total of 12 rounds.
ack-ack
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It would be nice to have however one Wirble about & well you know the rest.
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There were pro and con for the Germans using the smaller tungsten round at a higher velocity. While it would shoot flatter it wouldn't cause as much damage as the heavier 37mm rounds and tungsten was nothing special when it came to secondary burning, "unlike depleted uranium".
When firing at high velocities, traditional steel shot would tend to shatter on impact rather than penetrate. Tungsten, being very dense, would not shatter, and thus could deal damage when traditional AP would fail.
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Would still be a nice variety.
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+1
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I want this plane so bad I can taste it.
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I want this plane so bad I can taste it.
We have the plane. ;)
Just not the loadout.
+1
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The 37mm Flak 18 cannons on the Ju 87G-1 and earlier D-3 models only carried 6 rounds per gun pod for a total of 12 rounds.
ack-ack
12 kills per sortie isnt bad
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12 kills per sortie isnt bad
That's if you are good enough of an aim to hit with one shot.
ack-ack
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unless youre hunting jeeps/M3s/M8s...... even if you were a perfect shot you aint gettin more than 1 kill with 12 rounds
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12 kills per sortie isnt bad
Actually it was 12 per gun. Not 16. Not 6.
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Actually it was 12 per gun. Not 16. Not 6.
The Kanonenvogel had 6 rounds per pod, this is not even close to being open for debate.
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The Kanonenvogel had 6 rounds per pod, this is not even close to being open for debate.
TRUE... :aok
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The interesting thing about the 37mm Flak 18 cannon that was used, was that it was an utter failure as a ground anti-tank gun but became one of the best plane mounted anti-tank guns during the war.
ack-ack
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Not surprising Ack Ack...look at what part of the tank you're shooting at from ground level versus in the air.
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Tungsten carbide is extremely hard. The weight is close to the weight of steel if not a little lighter. It does have SUPERIOR penetration capabilities. We still use tungsten carbide as projectiles in .50 Cal SLAP and 7.62 SLAP rounds. Sabot Loaded Armor Piercing. .50 Cal will go through the engine block of a deuce and a half truck. You can forget about hiding behind anything for protection, as the only thing that MIGHT protect you is a front line modern TANK.
6 Rounds per gun? No problem, it only took one round in the turret or engine compartment to pop a T-34. The rate of fire was not a factor as they were utilized much like a semiautomatic rifle.
It’s been long enough, when are we getting this addition?
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I never even knew the gun had 12 round clips. But here you go. http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm
The remaining German guns were all adaptations of ground guns. The first was the 37 mm BK 3,7, a modified version of the FlaK 18 AA gun firing the same 37x263B ammunition. This meant that it was bulky, heavy and slow-firing by comparison with the NS-37, for example. It also remained clip-fed, with a maximum capacity of just 12 rounds. It mainly fired Hartkernmunition ammo, capable of penetrating up to 140 mm / 100 m / 90 degrees although this was halved at a striking angle of 60 degrees.
Debate it with the guy who wrote the book on it.
I deliberatly didnt include exact figures for armor penetration cause Ive heard several different accounts. Theres no question is was a very good AP shell.
Im becoming very fond of the Hurri-D. I think it handles like a dream as far as a tank killing fighter is concerned. The Brits did a whole lot of development of hyper-velocity anti-armor rounds before and during the war, "including the finned sabot", but none of this made it to the Hurri-D 40mm guns in the field. In the game I find the "S" guns most accurate and the Hurri-D very flyable. Like the Yak-9T however its a little light for the tough tanks. Its not as tough as the Yak but still a fine weapon for most GVs you run into.
The JU-87G would be a very welcome addition. I'd love to see it included. :salute
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I know where you got it.
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm)
The number is still 6 per pod.
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In the game I find the "S" guns most accurate and the Hurri-D very flyable. Like the Yak-9T however its a little light for the tough tanks.
The Hurri D is very much unlike the Yak 9T when it comes to killing tough tanks - It's very much able to kill any tank in game. Even one-hit killshots on the Tiger are possible (almost perpendicular hit on top armor above driver's compartment), the only tank that's quite difficult to stop is a T34/76 (the /85 seems to have a paper turret).
Before the B-25H and the 37mm Il-2 arrived, the D Hurri was the only way to stop Tigers when ords were down.
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The Kanonenvogel had 6 rounds per pod, this is not even close to being open for debate.
Why not?
The number is still 6 per pod.
I have a few books giving 12 per gun, but the only one I would call "reliable" is
Waffen-Arsenal Bd 133: Deutsche Sturzkampfflugzeuge Ju-87 Ju 88 by Joachim Dressel & Manfred Griehl.
It presents a "Flugzeug-Baureihenübersicht Junkers Ju-87", date 19 August 1944 giving "Chef TLR Fl. (E-2)" as a source.
Ju-87 G-1 and G-2 are both listed as having 12 rounds per gun.
If that is true (and I have no reason to doubt that, as it's in line with Mr. Williamson's findings), I may also have found where some confusion might have come from:
The Flak 18 was loaded with 6-round clips per tray
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6211/87g2.jpg)
But as we can see on this picture, the cannon seems to have two trays, one left & right:
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7880/87g1.jpg)
So this would give each cannon 2x6=12 rounds
I will see if I can dig up some more...
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2nd Source is a detailed article about the 87G and it's weapons.
About the BK 3,7 it says:
"Die BK 3,7 entstand aus der Flak 18 unter Änderung des Rücklaufmechanismus, Kürzung des Laufs und Einbau eines Fernabzuges. Modifiziert betrug die Rohrlänge der Bordkanone 210,6 cm, die Gesamtlänge 375,0 cm. Mit der ab Februar 1942 bei der E-6 Gruppe in Rechlin erprobten Hartkernmunition erreichte man zunächst eine Durchschlagsleistung von 58mm bei einem Auftreffwinkel von 60° aus 100m Entfernung. Mit der später verwendeten Pz.Gr. L`spur änderte sich diese auf 120mm.
Jeweils 6 Wolfram-Stahlgranaten waren in einem Magazin an der Seite der Waffe. Jede Flak 18 verfügte über 12 Schuß."
Translation of last sentence: "6 tungsten-steel rounds where carried each in a tray at the side of the weapon. Each Flak 18 was equipped with 12 rounds."
(Waffen-Arsenal Sonderband S-16 - Flugzeuge gegen Panzer)
Which conforms with the pictures posted above.
But I'm still trying to find some detail photographies or drawings of the Bk-3,7 ... I'm still not convinced
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I say no to this idea IL2's are enough for us gvers if we have to get it perk it!
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2nd Source is a detailed article about the 87G and it's weapons.
About the BK 3,7 it says:
"Die BK 3,7 entstand aus der Flak 18 unter Änderung des Rücklaufmechanismus, Kürzung des Laufs und Einbau eines Fernabzuges. Modifiziert betrug die Rohrlänge der Bordkanone 210,6 cm, die Gesamtlänge 375,0 cm. Mit der ab Februar 1942 bei der E-6 Gruppe in Rechlin erprobten Hartkernmunition erreichte man zunächst eine Durchschlagsleistung von 58mm bei einem Auftreffwinkel von 60° aus 100m Entfernung. Mit der später verwendeten Pz.Gr. L`spur änderte sich diese auf 120mm.
Jeweils 6 Wolfram-Stahlgranaten waren in einem Magazin an der Seite der Waffe. Jede Flak 18 verfügte über 12 Schuß."
Translation of last sentence: "6 tungsten-steel rounds where carried each in a tray at the side of the weapon. Each Flak 18 was equipped with 12 rounds."
(Waffen-Arsenal Sonderband S-16 - Flugzeuge gegen Panzer)
Which conforms with the pictures posted above.
But I'm still trying to find some detail photographies or drawings of the Bk-3,7 ... I'm still not convinced
Cool finds Lusche. They must have adapted a 2nd tray after development. All books I have state six rounds.
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Cool finds Lusche. They must have adapted a 2nd tray after development. All books I have state six rounds.
I have seen references about 12 as well as 6 rounds, but the sources for 12 rounds are the more detailed ones. But when I take an even closer look at my pics, I see that the "2nd" tray is much smaller, as if it were no tray at all. All other pics I have seen so far look the same...
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I have seen references about 12 as well as 6 rounds, but the sources for 12 rounds are the more detailed ones. But when I take an even closer look at my pics, I see that the "2nd" tray is much smaller, as if it were no tray at all. All other pics I have seen so far look the same...
That is what I was thinking, more like a "cleaning hatch for the mechanism"?
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Another detail: Look closely at the tray's opening - doesn't it actually look like 2 trays, one above the other?
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6211/87g2.jpg)
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Another detail: Look closely at the tray's opening - doesn't it actually look like 2 trays, one above the other?
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6211/87g2.jpg)
Only question I'd have. I'm not familiar with this gun, but maybe they only carried 6 and the casings cycled through to the bottom, or did they eject?
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Take a real close look at the diameter of the shells in that clip...you will notice that the "apparent" depth of that tray is not big enough for those shells to fit in a double layer. Looks very much like a rifle magazine...you don't load them staggered but when you insert the ammo in it they stagger themselves in the mag.
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In this photo (appears to be same guy and plane) it looks like the tray has already been loaded?
(http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/5762/bk37closetz7.jpg)
Video of gun in use
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg&mode=related&search=)
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In this photo (appears to be same guy and plane) it looks like the tray has already been loaded?
(http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/5762/bk37closetz7.jpg)
Video of gun in use
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg&mode=related&search=)
He looks bummed that he as an extra clip he couldn't load.
ack-ack
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In this photo (appears to be same guy and plane) it looks like the tray has already been loaded?
(http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/5762/bk37closetz7.jpg)
Video of gun in use
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg&mode=related&search=)
Looks to me like the top of the tray has been loaded and now he's going to load the bottom. Thats what I see.
Maybe the answer is in the gun cam videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccOXrfBZoLE&feature=related Some look like more then 6 shots fired to me. How does a guy take out 4 tanks in one mission with only 6 rounds? 12 in a day?
The 37 mm BK3.7 had better luck, but was very heavy and carried only a dozen rounds. Both the HS129B and Ju87 carried these weapons, and the Ju87G with two of them under the wings proved very effective in the hands of a good pilot.
http://www.avalanchepress.com/StopTank.php
Actually it looks like there is an ammo tray on each side of the cannon. Like in the very first frames of this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ef19vs%2Ese%2Fe107%5Fplugins%2Fforum%2Fforum%5Fviewtopic%2Ephp%3F250
So yeah, Lusche is right. As am I.
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Actually it looks like there is an ammo tray on each side of the cannon.
I don't think that's a second tray. It's much smaller:
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5894/ju87g2.jpg)
Only question I'd have. I'm not familiar with this gun, but maybe they only carried 6 and the casings cycled through to the bottom, or did they eject?
The Flak 18 was fed from the left and ejected the empty clip to the right. (Note that the guns was mounted upside down under the 87's wing) So the "2nd tray" is actually where the empty clip goes to?
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Maybe it's some sort of vortex generator, to offset the drag on the other side of the pod, to prevent the aim being thrown off?
In this picture it looks like it's lower, and that the shell ejection port is right above it:
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/862/bundesarchivbild101i655.jpg)
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Mabey its another magazine... :aok
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:huh
Yes... another magazine...
... on the wrong side of the gun...
... blocking the shell EJECTION port (ejection, not intake)....
.... too small to actually hold any rounds in it....
So yes, "maybe it's another magazine".... :rolleyes:
The only alternative I can think of is that there were 6 rounds in the "chute", but the gun didn't start right there. The tube was hollowed out, and the gun sat in the very center of it. You can fit 1, maybe 2 more between where the chute ends and the gun begins, plus another in the barrel ready to fire... That would be 6 + 3 maybe, 9 per gun. This is backed up by the ammo loading holding a stick of 6 in his hand, but you being able to see rounds inside the chute opening already...
It's all a matter of how they were packed and fed into the gun, I guess. The MG/FF ammo drum carried 60 rounds, but later in the war was repacked to hold up to 90 rounds in the same space. It's possible there were 12 rounds per gun, just not in a single "stick" like you might think.
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Maybe the answer is in the gun cam videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccOXrfBZoLE&feature=related Some look like more then 6 shots fired to me. How does a guy take out 4 tanks in one mission with only 6 rounds? 12 in a day?
If each gondola carried 6 rounds, that would make 12 total. The math is easy to figure out then.
ack-ack
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It's all a matter of how they were packed and fed into the gun, I guess. The MG/FF ammo drum carried 60 rounds, but later in the war was repacked to hold up to 90 rounds in the same space. It's possible there were 12 rounds per gun, just not in a single "stick" like you might think.
<sigh>
No, they couldn't repack 60-round drum to contain 90 rounds. There were different sized drums that could hold different amounts of ammo...
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Some good stuff regarding the BK 3.7:
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/bordkanone%2037.html#Vorbemerkung (http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/bordkanone%2037.html#Vorbemerkung)
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/Bilder/Junkers%20Ju%2087/Ju%2087/009.jpg)
I've understood the G-2 could carry 12 rounds per gun in coupled magazines (6 rounds each), however in the picture above it is clearly seen that one magazine contains atleast 7 rounds...
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http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/bordkanone%2037.html#Vorbemerkung (http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/bordkanone%2037.html#Vorbemerkung)
Interesting link. My German isn't so good so it took a bit to skim through the article but this is what I got out of it...
The only mention of 12 rounds in an aircraft installation I see is here;
"Zuerst wurden einige He 129 B-2-Flugzeuge als Schlachtflieger außer der Bewaffnung von zwei MG 151/20 mit je einer BK 3,7 und 12 Schuß Munition ausgerüstet und mit Erfolg erprobt."
Which I think means something to the affect of 'First used in the He 129B-2 attack aircraft with 2 MG151/20, along with a BK 37 and 12 rounds of ammunition.' (not sure what 'mit Erfolg erprobt' means?)
However I think the BK 37 in the He 129 was in a much different installation than the Ju 87 so that's not really relevant.
also...
Munition und Magazin (Pz.Gr.): (munitions and magazines (panzer grenadier= armor piercing high explosive?))
(jede BK hatte 2 Magazine mit je 6 Schuss) (every BK has (? what is hatte?) two magazines with 6 rounds. I don't know where the second magazine goes in the Ju87 though.)
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I've understood the G-2 could carry 12 rounds per gun in coupled magazines (6 rounds each), however in the picture above it is clearly seen that one magazine contains atleast 7 rounds...
Actually, it looks like that 7th round isn't attached to the magazine but is the 1st round of a magazine already in the "feed chute" which the armorer is about to shove forward with the second 6-round magazine.
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/Bilder/Junkers%20Ju%2087/Ju%2087%20G-2%20177/002.jpg)
This picture pretty much shows it. The pod/the feed chute actually house two 6-round magazines, one after the other. Now that I think about it, I remember reading about this from somewhere. At first they only used 6 rpg and later started using 12 rpg. It sure looks like they wouldn't fit though...
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My german sucks but the manual on that weblink Wmaker posted is for the Ju-87G-2 and according to that manual it starts out saying magazine capacity is 6 rounds then it states the gunpods on the G-2 will hold 2 mags per gun. Nice find Wmaker.
So evidently one of the major differences between the G-1 and the G-2 is increased ammo capacity for the 3,7cm cannon.
Anyone notice the chart that shows the Ju-87G-2 was built from the Ju-87D-3? Strange... :confused:
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Actually, it looks like that 7th round isn't attached to the magazine but is the 1st round of a magazine already in the "feed chute".
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/Bilder/Junkers%20Ju%2087/Ju%2087%20G-2%20177/002.jpg)
This picture pretty much shows it. The pod/the feed chute actually house two 6-round magazines, one after the other. Now that I think about it, I remember reading about this from somewhere. At first they only used 6 rpg and later started using 12 rpg. It sure looks like they wouldn't fit though...
I disagree. It doesn't look at all like there's enough room in the gunpod for a whole magazine, especially when you see how much of the gunpod the gun seems to actually take up
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/Bilder/Junkers%20Ju%2087/Ju%2087%20G-2%20177/007.jpg)
The machinery around the round in the picture you posted would seem to be that of the gun itself as opposed to something attached to the gun.
And how big the feed chute thing is, and how big the magazine is. Another interesting thing you point out is that there is a seventh free round being loaded in front of the magazine.
Out of pure speculation, it could be the case that a round was loaded into the chamber before the magazine was inserted to increase it's preciously small capacity, making the G's total ammunition capacity 14 rounds, 7 rounds per gun.
What does Patronenrahmen mean? The manual on the site says 'Patronenrahmen zu je 6 schuss (Huelsen fallen ins Freie)
I only got gibberish out of the translator... 'patron frame'....
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It sure looks like they wouldn't fit though...
I disagree. It doesn't look at all like there's enough room in the gunpod for a whole magazine, especially when you see how much of the gunpod the gun seems to actually take up
:rolleyes:
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This picture pretty much shows it. The pod/the feed chute actually house two 6-round magazines, one after the other. Now that I think about it, I remember reading about this from somewhere. At first they only used 6 rpg and later started using 12 rpg. It sure looks like they wouldn't fit though...
He was talking about that statement Wmaker...it really doesn't look like 2 full 6 round clips could go into that mag end to end, had to be a staggered or stacked set if 2 clips of 6 were used.
Keep in mind also Motherland your pic and the first pics posted on page 1 could be G-1's which did have a single 6 round mag.
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What does Patronenrahmen mean? The manual on the site says 'Patronenrahmen zu je 6 schuss (Huelsen fallen ins Freie)
I only got gibberish out of the translator... 'patron frame'....
Patrone loosely means ammunition..ie. a round, shell and so on...
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bravoa8 some of us don't fly anything but German Iron so the IL2 is not an option for tank busting.
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I did miss the last part of your post WMaker, sorry.
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I did miss the last part of your post WMaker, sorry.
I'm sorry...I'm a bit grumpy...5 am and I have this damn over 65 year old aircraft cannon keeping me awake...
Uploaded the manual pic:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/Patronenrahmen.jpg)
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What does Patronenrahmen mean? Patronenrahmen zu je 6 schuss
If I'm not mistaken, it means: Cartridge.
Patronenrahmen zu je 6 schuss: "Cartridge framework to 6 shot"?
Lusche or another Fluent German would know 100%. My German is slipping and I need to refresh it after 19 years.
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If I'm not mistaken, it means: Cartridge.
Yep, that's correct, a word taken to Finnish language and its meaning kinda put me off track...
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Just read that manual about 37mm loadout for 110G-2. In there it said 66 patronen in 11 patronenrahmen (which the radio operator/reargunner could load), so I guess in this context atleast patronenrahmen means the magazine itself. So, it looks like as the rounds get expended and empty casings exit from the upper aperture, the empty magazine (patronenrahme) travels to the space reserved to it in the left side of the gun. Those spaces holding the empty and full magazines probably just were longer in the G-2 compared to the G-1 I guess.
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For me, this 1st photo posted bye Lusche says it all
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6211/87g2.jpg)
the size of the clip in his hand clearly dose not reach to the gun housing when fully inserted, a few inches short, equal to the 1st small vertical line you can see on the cartridge. If I draw line from there to the center line of the gun I get 6 more shells. Not to mention the word Clip's in the photo caption.
and this one sum's it up for me at least :)
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/Bilder/Junkers%20Ju%2087/Ju%2087/klein/009.jpg)
as he pushes the second clip into the cartradge to fully load the gun. :aok
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Bring the Ju-87 37mm tank buster to the game!
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<sigh>
No, they couldn't repack 60-round drum to contain 90 rounds. There were different sized drums that could hold different amounts of ammo...
From my understanding of it, the drum changed shape slightly (straight walls, not angled) but the diameter was the same. It had to fit into the same compartments. Perhaps poor description on my part.
EDIT: not that I want to hijack the thread or anything, seems the issue has been answered!
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Sooo anyone from HTC care to chime in here? Will this ever be considered?
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the size of the clip in his hand clearly dose not reach to the gun housing when fully inserted, a few inches short, equal to the 1st small vertical line you can see on the cartridge. If I draw line from there to the center line of the gun I get 6 more shells. Not to mention the word Clip's in the photo caption.
The caption also says magazines of which there is clearly only 1. Your misinterpretation of the caption is obvious...2 gun(s), 2 magazine(s), 2 clip(s) of ammunition per plane...at least for whatever model of Stuka that is in the pic.
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6211/87g2.jpg)
Your perspective is a bit off but not by far...if you look at the length of the mag in comparison to the shells in the clip the guy is holding you can see that when all 6 rounds are inserted, if one round is chambered in the gun, there is room for one more round...so a max of 7 per gun (6 in the mag and 1 in the pipe)...at least for a Ju-87G-1 by all accounts.
If the 7 round clip of AP being loaded in this photo is any indication...then as stated above would be true for a G-1 at least...6 in the mag 1 in the pipe.
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/Bilder/Junkers%20Ju%2087/Ju%2087/klein/009.jpg)
as he pushes the second clip into the cartradge to fully load the gun. :aok
Again, perspective...the breach of the weapon is the width of 1 round inside the gondola housing not 6 or 7...using the top photo, measure the length of the ammo clip and then measure the length of the extruded portion of the magazine...then look very closely at the front of that gondola housing where the barrel of the weapon sticks out...if you look at the diagram of the weapon without the gondola housing you will see where the breach housing is very large compared to the barrel...and in all of the photos none of the gondola housings are wide enough to hold a 6 round clip of ammo internally.
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It looks like the clip is not a disintegrating link kind of rig, but something rigid. Unless you want that sticking out into the slip stream to interfere with the action of the cannon, it has to go somewhere and it looks like it goes into the thiner(in cord) fairing on the other side of the gun. with the casings being ejected above the fairing.
Has anyone looked at Flying Guns of WW2 to see what Tony says on this thing?
We know that it has no internal cassette magazine arrangement, it fires from those clips, it doesn't seem that any picture that we have seen here would show room for two 6 round clips per gun in a vertical stack arrangement. Certainly there is no picture that shows enough room for two clips end to end.
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Well, getting back to the thread, it would be nice to have a pure tank killer fighter in the game. The Yak-9T will do in a pinch but it fired HE rounds that just dont have the penetration of the AP 37mms of the IL2.
The Hurri-D is a pure tank killer but I dont think the steel AP round of the Brit 40mm "S" gun could compare with the German AP rounds. Ive spent a good deal of time in the Hurri-D off line and found it surprisingly effective when its rounds are fired point blank at the top armor weak points of tanks. Best of all you can wheel it around so easily and get set up for your next run. Ive flown it before but not much. This is an amazing airplane, I have come to discover.
The Stuka-G would be a great addition I believe. A great event airplane as well. :salute
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Well, the discussion of how many rounds it gets is a pretty big consideration as to how much it would be used in the game, which is a big consideration when deciding to develop it or not.
I think its interesting,, I think its hitting power and slow speed handling would make it deadly against tanks in the game, but it is so slow it would be absolute meat at low level in the MA. This of how easy it is to lead this thing with a wirble.
And with 6! shots. you cant try to take that wirble down at a distance either.
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When did we actually get the Stuka in the game?
I'm just sayin, don't hold your breath.
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Williams says that Bk 3.7 could take "a maximum of 12 rounds, with 6 and 8 round clips also being used"
it fires at 64% of the rate of the Ns37..
So we are talking about a plane that has 8 times the ammo, and fires nearly twice as fast as the Stuka G.
On top of that, the plane is far more vulnerable to ground fire then the Il2....
Each round does penetrate twice as much though even at 500 meters.
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This will be fun, :devil
Panzer dweebs beware.
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+1 :aok
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Williams says that Bk 3.7 could take "a maximum of 12 rounds, with 6 and 8 round clips also being used"
it fires at 64% of the rate of the Ns37..
So we are talking about a plane that has 8 times the ammo, and fires nearly twice as fast as the Stuka G.
On top of that, the plane is far more vulnerable to ground fire then the Il2....
Each round does penetrate twice as much though even at 500 meters.
Its not that easy. First off I bet most players waste at least 1/2 their IL2 ammo. If you have less, as in the Hurri-D, you waste less and place your shots better while also taking pains to set them up better. Im guilty of this as well so I speak from experience. The Hurri-D has 30 rounds overall. Place 2 to 4 in the right spots and you'll fatally wound any tank.
Penetration figures reports for the German ammo vary widely. I dont think there was any airborne tank gun in that era that could shoot thru 100mm of armor at 500 m. Certainly not a 37mm one.
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There are two 6 round clips per gondola. In theory (there is a pic of seven going in) you could load the chamber with a round. That means that each gun had a maximum capacity of 13 rounds or 26 combined. The two clips are mounted on opposite sides with one clip staggered or lower than the opposite side to allow for the ejection port to get rid of the spent casing.
As far as the OP is concerned. I would love to see this. It would be a great support plane for taking VB's. Imagine that far off VB that doesn't have a AB around. Three stukas with the 1800kg and two with 37mm for the guys that slip out. Would be fun. :devil
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Interesting link. My German isn't so good so it took a bit to skim through the article but this is what I got out of it...
The only mention of 12 rounds in an aircraft installation I see is here;
"Zuerst wurden einige He 129 B-2-Flugzeuge als Schlachtflieger außer der Bewaffnung von zwei MG 151/20 mit je einer BK 3,7 und 12 Schuß Munition ausgerüstet und mit Erfolg erprobt."
Which I think means something to the affect of 'First used in the He 129B-2 attack aircraft with 2 MG151/20, along with a BK 37 and 12 rounds of ammunition.' (not sure what 'mit Erfolg erprobt' means?)
However I think the BK 37 in the He 129 was in a much different installation than the Ju 87 so that's not really relevant.
also...
Munition und Magazin (Pz.Gr.): (munitions and magazines (panzer grenadier= armor piercing high explosive?))
(jede BK hatte 2 Magazine mit je 6 Schuss) (every BK has (? what is hatte?) two magazines with 6 rounds. I don't know where the second magazine goes in the Ju87 though.)
Not the only mention:
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/b/Bordwaffen/Bordkanonen/Bordkanone%203,7%20cm/Text/Beschreibung/Unterluees.jpg)
could u translate the last line?
I believe the it says something like.
Each weapon carried 2 magazine of 6 rounds, and it mentions the Ju87.
In this film if you stop it at 1/2 way there is a young man standing next to the gun with the front of the gun housing off you can clearly see the "feeder tray" inside the housing continue to the centerline of the gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umh_YP5o6k0&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umh_YP5o6k0&feature=player_embedded)
Continue to about 3/4's to 7/8th's stop the film again. Count the number of rounds you can see in the clip. I get 8 before the housing. That leaves 4 inside the housing on the feeder tray. Remember this gun is mounted upside down and a new feeding system was designed. And notice the last round is hanging out sort of willie nillie.
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could u translate the last line?
I believe the it says something like.
Each weapon carried 2 magazine of 6 rounds, and it mentions the Ju87.
The translation is Each Weapon had 2 magazine and 6 Shot...and remember, that was the Ju-87G-2 and the HS129...not the Ju-87G-1
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It is now my personal mission to bump this tread until we receive the Ju87 with 37mm's on it. :neener:
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The translation is Each Weapon had 2 magazine and 6 Shot
Megalodons translation was correct. "á" doesn't mean "and".
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The issue is that HTC would have to update both Stuka models as they the original AH1 port.
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The issue is that HTC would have to update both Stuka models as they the original AH1 port.
He would only need to update one Stuka model (since we only have one) and then add a perked ordnance option for the D-3 to carry the 37mm Flak 18 cannons. It was historically accurate for the D-3 to carry the 37mm cannon as they did so operationally at Kursk.
ack-ack
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I like it :rock
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Not to mention the perk ords could include the 37mm on the 110G2 also! :x
:salute
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Its not that easy. First off I bet most players waste at least 1/2 their IL2 ammo. If you have less, as in the Hurri-D, you waste less and place your shots better while also taking pains to set them up better. Im guilty of this as well so I speak from experience. The Hurri-D has 30 rounds overall. Place 2 to 4 in the right spots and you'll fatally wound any tank.
Penetration figures reports for the German ammo vary widely. I dont think there was any airborne tank gun in that era that could shoot thru 100mm of armor at 500 m. Certainly not a 37mm one.
It really is just as easy as that.
Weapons that are very hard to use or very hard to land kills in will be very little used.
The 40mm huri is killed by panzer IVs significantly more then it kills panzer IVs. Leaving Ostis and Wirbles out of it. The little 7.92 wins more then the 40mm. So what is a much slower and slower firing and low ammo Stuka going to do? Will the extra hitting power of the individual rounds make up for the much fewer shots and much slower more vulnerable aircraft?
I doubt it.
As cool as it is, it will likley be a hanger queen, the He 129 would be a way better aircraft to add to the game.
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He would only need to update one Stuka model (since we only have one) and then add a perked ordnance option for the D-3 to carry the 37mm Flak 18 cannons. It was historically accurate for the D-3 to carry the 37mm cannon as they did so operationally at Kursk.
ack-ack
Correct but also incorrect - the D series we have now, and the G-2 with the 37mm are two completely different models - unless HTC wishes to change the D variant we have now into a G. The other D variants with the 37mm were 'hacks' and not part of it's official loadout and were only done on request from Hans-Ulrich Rudel for the Battle of Kursk. He might be able to use the same model as there weren't many cockpit changes other than heavier armour making it heavier and both used the same engine. The G2 also has the extended wing found on the D-5. We have the D-3 variant now.
It would be 2 different aircraft however with different iron bomb load-outs. Only 200 or so G variants were ever made. I know the G2 (san's 37mm options) had two 30mm cannons (I can't reference the ammo count). I can't confirm if the G2 37mm options ALSO had the 30mm cannons.
2 aircraft.
References:
Bergström, Christer. Kursk - The Air Battle: July 1943. London: Chervron/Ian Allen, 2007. ISBN 978-1-903223-88-8.
Stuka Pilot, Hans Ulrich Rudel, Bantam; New Ed edition (1979), ISBN 978-0553123043.
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The only thing I can think of regarding that is perhaps many Hurri-D drivers are augering. I have more then once myself due to broken rudders and getting used to the airplane. Still the Panzer is easy meat for the Hurri-D. You dont have to worry about tank cannons when you B&Z the weak upper armor spots of the tank.
The trick to the Hurri-D is dont try and do to much in one pass. Two well placed rounds is far better then a spray of rounds not well placed. I get within 200m of my target before even shooting and then its a max of 4 rounds. Ive even taken T-34s cleanly with the Hurri-D.
It really is just as easy as that.
Weapons that are very hard to use or very hard to land kills in will be very little used.
The 40mm huri is killed by panzer IVs significantly more then it kills panzer IVs. Leaving Ostis and Wirbles out of it. The little 7.92 wins more then the 40mm. So what is a much slower and slower firing and low ammo Stuka going to do? Will the extra hitting power of the individual rounds make up for the much fewer shots and much slower more vulnerable aircraft?
I doubt it.
As cool as it is, it will likley be a hanger queen, the He 129 would be a way better aircraft to add to the game.
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Yeah, the hurri is a sniping aircraft, anything more than two rounds and your likly missing, I used to fly it ALOT for base defence when the ord was down before the intro of the IL-2, and its very effective against parked tanks.
The Ju would see action, I assure you of that...,especialy in my hands. :aok
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Correct but also incorrect - the D series we have now, and the G-2 with the 37mm are two completely different models - unless HTC wishes to change the D variant we have now into a G. The other D variants with the 37mm were 'hacks' and not part of it's official loadout and were only done on request from Hans-Ulrich Rudel for the Battle of Kursk. He might be able to use the same model as there weren't many cockpit changes other than heavier armour making it heavier and both used the same engine. The G2 also has the extended wing found on the D-5. We have the D-3 variant now.
It would be 2 different aircraft however with different iron bomb load-outs. Only 200 or so G variants were ever made. I know the G2 (san's 37mm options) had two 30mm cannons (I can't reference the ammo count). I can't confirm if the G2 37mm options ALSO had the 30mm cannons.
2 aircraft.
References:
Bergström, Christer. Kursk - The Air Battle: July 1943. London: Chervron/Ian Allen, 2007. ISBN 978-1-903223-88-8.
Stuka Pilot, Hans Ulrich Rudel, Bantam; New Ed edition (1979), ISBN 978-0553123043.
The Ju 87G-1 was based off the D-3, which is the Stuka model we have in game. Here is a picture of a G-1, which as you can see from the wing tips is a D-3.
(http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/aircraft/dive-bomber/junkers-ju-87-stuka/junkers-ju-87-g-1-01.jpg)
Like I said in my previous post, it would not take two different models to update. Instead of just giving the option to carry 37mm gondolas on the D-3, just redesignate it as the G-1. Still accomplishes the same thing without any extra effort other than updating the graphics to AH2 standard and giving it the ordnance package of a 37mm Flak 18 cannon. The D-3 and the G-1 were the same exact airframes, nothing changed other than those D-3s that were given 37mm's on the field were now officially designated as G-1s, along with the production models that were ordered in '43.
ack-ack
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Correct but also incorrect - the D series we have now, and the G-2 with the 37mm are two completely different models - unless HTC wishes to change the D variant we have now into a G. The other D variants with the 37mm were 'hacks' and not part of it's official loadout and were only done on request from Hans-Ulrich Rudel for the Battle of Kursk. He might be able to use the same model as there weren't many cockpit changes other than heavier armour making it heavier and both used the same engine. The G2 also has the extended wing found on the D-5. We have the D-3 variant now.
It would be 2 different aircraft however with different iron bomb load-outs. Only 200 or so G variants were ever made. I know the G2 (san's 37mm options) had two 30mm cannons (I can't reference the ammo count). I can't confirm if the G2 37mm options ALSO had the 30mm cannons.
2 aircraft.
References:
Bergström, Christer. Kursk - The Air Battle: July 1943. London: Chervron/Ian Allen, 2007. ISBN 978-1-903223-88-8.
Stuka Pilot, Hans Ulrich Rudel, Bantam; New Ed edition (1979), ISBN 978-0553123043.
I don't trust anything written by a Norwegian in Britain more than 50 years after an event...but that's just me.
Not sure what part of Ack Acks post you were focused on but...
I think you forgot a couple of small details...Ju-87D-5 incorporated the Jumo 213 and the wingspan was shortened back to the same length as the D-3 (0.6 meter difference) when the engine was put into production.
Dive brakes were also eliminated on the G models except on those D-3 Stukas that were converted in the field.
Both G-1 and G-2 models were capable of carrying 500 or 1000 pound bombs, and were known to do so when going against armored targets...seems kinda screwy to me but I wasn't in charge then. :D
Armor upgrades would not come into play with the modified loadout options in AH since the field modified D-3's didn't have any armor upgrades.
The only real question besides when can we have it, is how much ammo the G-1 carried...according to stories on Rudel:
Rudel was then posted to the new special "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" unit formed at Briansk to test newly developed tank-busting version of Ju-87 D-3.Modified Stuka armed with two Rheinmetall-Borsig 37mm (BK) Flak 18 guns (each mounted in special canopy under each wing with 6 rounds of ammunition) was developed at the Luftwaffe's experimental station at Rechlin (near Neustrelitz, Germany).
I would venture to say that 6 per weapon would be correct and according to the youtube videos posted earlier, both guns fired simultaneously.
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"The trick to the Hurri-D is dont try and do to much in one pass. Two well placed rounds is far better then a spray of rounds not well placed. I get within 200m of my target before even shooting and then its a max of 4 rounds. Ive even taken T-34s cleanly with the Hurri-D."
Good shooting, well done. There's a well-known RAF Film Unit short that shows a 6 Squadron Hurricane IID strafing a stationary target, I'll see if I can find it and post it in. Here's the attack procedure as described by the CO of 'Shiny Six' in 'Hurricane At War' by Chaz Bowyer; 1974, Ian Allan, Shepperton, ISBN 0 7110 0564 8:
The attack was started from something like 5,000 feet, putting the aircraft into a dive to achieve 254 mph, which with full throttle could be maintained during the run-in at about 20-40 feet above the ground. Opening with the first pair [of rounds] at about 1,000 yards, two more pairs could be got away accurately before breaking off the attack. It is no exaggeration to say that any good pilot would guarantee to hit his target with one or more pairs on each attack. The tank had little chance of retaliation . . . it took a brave man to fire at a Hurricane screaming in at 254 mph with two machine guns blazing and a slow crack, crack, crack from its big guns.
The 40mm Vickers 'S' guns were fired electro-pneumatically simultaneously as a pair by a push-button incorporated in the throttle lever and made active/safe by a master switch mounted on the decking shelf forward of the throttle. Ammunition was 15 rounds per gun, self-contained within the gun pod. The big guns were one of the arming options on the Hurricane Mk.IV; early Mk.IVs carried 15 rounds but on later Mk.IVs each magazine had a capacity of 30 rounds. Very few, if any, Mk.IVs were so armed in service. The machine guns were fired by the normal gun button mounted on the pilot's spade grip.
:cool:
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+1 :aok
Please give us a JU87 w\37mm.
Thank you.
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That and any good explanation why we can not up a stuka without any bombs, I got pretty reliable info that stukas where used to fly patrols over Balkans and strafe Partizans who where hiding in the woods
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That and any good explanation why we can not up a stuka without any bombs, I got pretty reliable info that stukas where used to fly patrols over Balkans and strafe Partizans who where hiding in the woods
Take it up and drop the ords when you clear the runway...I do that to change my loadout.
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Stttuuukkkaa with big guns . Want it.
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I don't trust anything written by a Norwegian
Good advise there. ;)
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Good advise there. ;)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254605.0.html
:noid
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254605.0.html
:noid
:rofl :aok
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Shameless Bump
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Gonna keep doing this till I can fly one.
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:bolt:
Did I do that?
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I could see some players spending many many an hour in this bird when it is made available.
Cannot wait. :aok
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Shameless bump with video link! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZF3lf5kdkc
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Lets Keep this one at the top. :banana:
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Give me the Stuka :joystick: :airplane:
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Getting to close to the bottom :bolt:
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Would be cool for Christmas (ahem, above the biplanes)... :aok
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(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2207/214f.th.jpg) (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/214f.jpg/)
Is this the one we are talking about? :joystick:
(click on image for larger pic)
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Close, I have a hard time telling the differences between the G-1 and G-2. The wing tips on that pic look a bit longer than a G-1 though...Ack Ack would know better.
This is a G-1 model...the one this discussion is talking about.
(http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/aircraft/dive-bomber/junkers-ju-87-stuka/junkers-ju-87-g-1-01.jpg)
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The difference between the G-1 and the G-2 were the wings. The G-1 had the shorter, squared off wings of the D-3 while the G-2 had the longer wing of the D-5. The image from ToeTag looks like a G-2.
ack-ack
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This is going to be a great addition to the game.
How many kills the Germany's best JU87 tank buster get?
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This is going to be a great addition to the game.
How many kills the Germany's best JU87 tank buster get?
Look up Rudel...credited with like 380+ tanks but there are no clear numbers on how many with the cannons.
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Look up Rudel...credited with like 380+ tanks but there are no clear numbers on how many with the cannons.
Kill record according to wikipedia...
"800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery guns, a destroyer, two cruisers, one Soviet battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and nine aircraft which he shot down"
Of course not all of that was in with BK 37's.
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(http://www.aircraftaces.com/images/junkers-87-stuka.jpg)
(http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/uniforms4/germany-stuka.jpg)
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The top picture shows the two clips.
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Hey ToeTag, this comes before your "commando's" idea. :neener:
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agreed :aok
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I'm glad you guys keep this one going while I'm busy at Ft polk.
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Wheres Fort Polk at? Also can we atleast get the current D3 with the option in the hanger for christmas? :pray
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Fort Polk is in Louisiana, near Leesville (?)...fun place but women are scarce.
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Would making this variant of a Ju-87 be as hard as creating a new plane?
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Would making this variant of a Ju-87 be as hard as creating a new plane?
No more difficult than modifying the loadout options in the hangar... :joystick:
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No more difficult than modifying the loadout options in the hangar... :joystick:
Or just changing the designation of the D-3 we have in game to the G-1.
ack-ack
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:neener:
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Well it was getting to close to the Bottom. :bolt:
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Well it was getting to close to the Bottom. :bolt:
Have you seen some of the stuff that keeps bumping legitimate aircraft and tank posts down to the bottom?
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Yes I have seen those posts. The various models of the Stuka that carried the 37's are my biggest wish in this game. :pray
Heck I landed 5 Kills in my stuka the other night including 1 Jeep that Strafed with the 7.9's wishing I had the twin 37's
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It was the jedi mind trick of willing the 7.9's into 37mm's that killed the jeep. :D
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Hey...how do I get Jedi master skillz? Do you need some perk points for them?
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Personally,I'd like to see an ords system,perked if need be,that would allow the player to
load different weapons on A/C.
Example: the 37 mm for stuka,110G and/or 88's
:Mk101 30mm for 110B
: Tiny Tims for F4U
I'm sure there's plenty other weapons and packages that for a reasonable "price" players could and would spend perks.
Just to make it interesting,lets say Bomber perks could be used for the perked ords,wouldn't that be a great way to use those perks and might encourage players to up buffs for some points to use
on the perked ords.
I'm interested to hear others thoughts and ideas on this subject.
Oh and bring on the 37mm stuka :aok
:salute
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Ju-87G-1 at least as a loadout option....puhleeeeeez?
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Does every nation in the game (except the Finns with the sole Brewester) have the option for a 37mm tank buster or bigger damn Hurricane 40mm), except the Luftwaffe?
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Does every nation in the game (except the Finns with the sole Brewester) have the option for a 37mm tank buster or bigger damn Hurricane 40mm), except the Luftwaffe?
Believe it....or not...
(http://www.quirkytravel.com/joomla/images/ripleys.jpg)
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Yes but the only single engine attack plane to carry a 4000lb bomb. Still would rather take my chances with the 37mm. :aok
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What no comments? :bolt:
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What no comments? :bolt:
Submarines, ships and teh B-29 are more impotent than anything actually usable... :headscratch:
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Another good reference photo .... 12 rounds!
(http://www.cieldegloire.com/as_allemands/ju87g_canon.jpg)
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Does every nation in the game (except the Finns with the sole Brewester) have the option for a 37mm tank buster or bigger damn Hurricane 40mm), except the Luftwaffe?
The Japanese set?
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The Japanese set?
Blah tanks weren't as big a part in the pacific as they were in Europe and Africa, but you got me. Did the japs have a tank busting gun on a plane?
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All I want for Christmas are my BK-37's :angel:
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Blah tanks weren't as big a part in the pacific as they were in Europe and Africa, but you got me. Did the japs have a tank busting gun on a plane?
I'm curious as to which American aircraft you think has a "tank-busting gun?" The P-39s 37mm was for air-to-air work, not busting tanks. The B-25's 75mm was for anti-shipping duties, not tank busting.
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I'm curious as to which American aircraft you think has a "tank-busting gun?" The P-39s 37mm was for air-to-air work, not busting tanks. The B-25's 75mm was for anti-shipping duties, not tank busting.
Actually, the 1st Air Commandos used the B-25H to great effect in hunting down Japanese truck convoys in the CBI. Usual ammo load out for the B-25H included 5 AP rounds.
ack-ack
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Actually, the 1st Air Commandos used the B-25H to great effect in hunting down Japanese truck convoys in the CBI. Usual ammo load out for the B-25H included 5 AP rounds.
ack-ack
A truck convoy is not a tank.
*Target sits back to see if the attempt to hide behind a technicality will be successful*
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Well in this game it hunts tanks with a great deal of success. :O
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I'm curious as to which American aircraft you think has a "tank-busting gun?" The P-39s 37mm was for air-to-air work, not busting tanks. The B-25's 75mm was for anti-shipping duties, not tank busting.
They sure make a mess out of my panzer!
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T-34's beware when i get my BK-37's
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T-34's beware when i get my BK-37's
Wirbles will hear the shreak and tower!
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Fingers crossed for this update :pray
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GIVE ME THE BK-37's
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I can see pilots being dedicated tank killers in JU-87s with the 37mm. Its gonna be fun!
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I'm all for this plane.
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This is the only way forward for the Stuka the dynamics of the MA and mixed planeset means your lucky to even get enough alt for a bomb run before your set upon. Nothing sucks more than spending 10 minutes climbing for a bomb run and having to jetison your bombs and start dogfighting :mad:
I don't think it would affect gvers to much the il2 is the 'dweeb ride' of tank killers, the hurri IMO is a better tank buster than the il2 if you know where to shoot + you rarely get the same attention from cons as an IL2 gets.
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I would make it shine :devil
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Give us the 37mm Cannon Stukas. +
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The hurricane IID is very susceptible to gun fire
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What do you think would be the max\practical range for the JU87 w\37mm to destroy a tank?
Is convergence even a factor here?
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1k
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This addition would be quite nice to the Stuka here in AH. :aok
I have seen gun footage of this weapon used against T-34's while watching The History Channel. The T-34's did not make it. lol Wings of the Luftwaffe, if I recall the program's name correctly. That wasn't the only program shown with gun footage of the Stuka using the BK's though. But it's just one that springs to mind. It has been a long time since I've seen it, so I could very well be wrong.
Some info regarding the BK 37:
The Bordkanone BK 37 ((on-)board cannon 37) was a 37mm anti-tank/bomber autocannon based on the earlier 37 mm Flak 18 made by Rheinmetall. It was mounted on World War II Luftwaffe aircraft such as the anti-tank or bomber-destroyer versions of the Junkers Ju 87D-3 and G-2, Henschel Hs 129B-2/R3, Messerschmitt Bf 110G-2/R1-3, and others. The cannon could be attached under the wings or fuselage of the aircraft as a self-contained pod with a 12-round magazine. It fired APCR (Tungsten hard core) ammunition or high explosive shells in 37x263B mm caliber at 160 rounds per minute.
I pulled this info off of the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BK_37 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BK_37)
According to the info here, it is telling me that the BK 37 carried a 12 round magazine. They probably loaded a round into the gun prior to loading the 12 round magazine, meaning each gun would have 13 rounds for a total of 26. But in our case, we would only have 24 rounds total.
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But in our case, we would only have 24 rounds total.
Potentially 24 dead tanks per sortie. :banana:
I'll be happy just to get one per sortie for starters to learn the JU87 w\37mm.
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:lol The plus side to it is that the Stuka is a very stable gun platform, or it has been for me. I am not sure how it is for others who take it up for a spin. So aiming the BK's, though takes a little practice, shouldn't be TOO difficult to do. From what I've seen in the gun footage of Stuka's hitting tanks, you wouldn't need to be dodging trees and bushes to get in a kill shot or have to come in from directly above. Maybe for the Tiger, you would. :lol
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Potentially 24 dead tanks per sortie. :banana:
It fired both guns at once.... so no ....12 if your a perfect shot.
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It fired both guns at once.... so no ....12 if your a perfect shot.
All the vids I've seen show what appears to be 1 round at a time...like the guns alternate.
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I have seen gun footage of Stuka's hitting T-34's with one cannon (knocking out the T-34's). There is a you-tube video of Stuka's using the BK against Russian landing craft in February 1943, at the Black Sea in Russia during the battle of the Kuban Bridgehead. In the video, they were using both. It's possible the pilot had the ground crews redo the firing sequence for the cannons, or he may have done it himself (doubt that but it may be plausible). I don't think you could switch between the two modes in flight, not in real life. Though I have not flown a WW2 bird either.
There is a you-tube video somewhere of a person in Germany, who flew around in a 7/10 scale Stuka, a D-3 if I recall correctly. He mentioned in the info that Ulrich Rudel flew his replica. I'm having a lot of trouble finding this video though. :mad: I wonder how many here, would like to take it up?
The British have the Hurricane IID, the Russians have IL-2. I say, let the Germans have their BK 37's! :aok Yep...drooling again...
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All the vids I've seen show what appears to be 1 round at a time...like the guns alternate.
same time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg&feature=related)
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Imagine a squadron of JU87s w\37mm foiling a GV attack! :O
Oh the fun ahead. :D
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It would probably look like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccOXrfBZoLE&feature=related
Much fun to be had, indeed. :devil
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Imagine a squadron of JU87s w\37mm foiling a GV attack! :O
Most players will hop into a 87G for a tour, and then go back to the Il-2. ;)
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Most players will hop into a 87G for a tour, and then go back to the Il-2. ;)
Why would anyone want to do that?
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Why would anyone want to do that?
They can't find it in themselves to admire the beauty in the Stuka's graceful lines.
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Why would anyone want to do that?
Because it's more effective.
Can kill any tank, but has more ammo and higher ROF, and it's much better armored.
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Well, if for effectivness we would have 1 plane per role which wouldn't make for a very attractive game. And as a exclusive Luftwaffe pilot I highly appreciate any plane that fills the gaps we have in the LW line-up. A tank-strafer is needed. The Stuka would win with style! :aok
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Because it's more effective.
Can kill any tank, but has more ammo and higher ROF, and it's much better armored.
Yes.... but real manly men fly the hurri IId. ;)
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Well, if for effectivness we would have 1 plane per role which wouldn't make for a very attractive game.
Oh, I'm certainly not against the inclusion of a 87G, not at all!
It's just that apparently many people seem to overrate it's impact and long time appeal to players in Aces High. It will have it's place for sure, but in the long run it won't pwn tanks more than the Il2 with the 37mm option.
And let's not forget very often players are enthusiastically supporting the inclusion of a plane just because of myths or name recognition - and when it'S there and they have to face the MA cartoon reality they hardly fly it at all ;)
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I can promise I would fly the Stuka over the IL2 any day. Plus I would have the deadly Vilkas gunning for me.
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And let's not forget very often players are enthusiastically supporting the inclusion of a plane just because of myths or name recognition - and when it'S there and they have to face the MA cartoon reality they hardly fly it at all ;)
to wit, the p39.. I cant remember the last time I saw one in the MA..
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Because it's more effective.
Can kill any tank, but has more ammo and higher ROF, and it's much better armored.
This. This, right here, is why the 37mm option for the Stuka should not, not, NOT be perked if it's made available. Because it is balanced by the fact that it's on A BLOODY STUKA. Slow, vulnerable, with LOL mm's of armor.
On the other hand I don't think the IL-2 in the game is as good a gun platform as the Ju-87, and the Ju-87 is rather more stable and controllable in diving attacks as well (which is the angle one should be using against tanks, if you want to hit the thin top/deck armor.)
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On the other hand I don't think the IL-2 in the game is as good a gun platform as the Ju-87, and the Ju-87 is rather more stable and controllable in diving attacks as well (which is the angle one should be using against tanks, if you want to hit the thin top/deck armor.)
Maybe more stable... but that doesn't mean the Il2 is being unstable in any way. It a rock solid weapons platform, if one has any problems in aiming in a IL2 he will have the same in a 87G. On top of that more ammo and higher ROF means aiming at and hitting your target is much easier.
That's one reason almost nobody is using the Hurricane 2D in it's intended role, not even back in time when the Il2 only had the 23mm cannons and the Hurri was the only cannon bird capable of killing every tank on the AH battlefield.
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If we cant have that then what about the BF110's under belly mounted 40 mm cannon?
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If we cant have that then what about the BF110's under belly mounted 40 mm cannon?
40mm cannon? :huh
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If we cant have that...
Bite your tongue sir!
The JU87 w\37mm is our destiny.
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to wit, the p39.. I cant remember the last time I saw one in the MA..
You must not be on very much or you're hanging around the MW...I can name several players that fly the P-39 almost every day in LW Blue.
For those who want to do some tank busting, especially in base defense, I'm betting a Stuka with the 37mm's would get used as much as the IL2...not just for the novelty. I rarely do any tank busting in a plane but if we had the option for the 37mms for the Stuka's it would be my pick every time...of course being able to add 1 bomb to the loadout would have to be available as well.
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You must not be on very much or you're hanging around the MW...I can name several players that fly the P-39 almost every day in LW Blue.
Thats right several players... out of ~6000
For a plane that came out #2 in the poll (way ahead it's other competitors) it's amazingly non-used... one of the rarest planes to encounter at all ;)
I'm betting a Stuka with the 37mm's would get used as much as the IL2...not just for the novelty.
Why?
.of course being able to add 1 bomb to the loadout would have to be available as well.
The Ju 87G didn't carry bombs.
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Thats right several players... out of ~6000
For a plane that came out #2 in the poll (way ahead it's other competitors) it's amazingly non-used... one of the rarest planes to encounter at all ;)
No offense Lusche but the P-39Q gets used more than the P-51B or P-40.
The Ju 87G didn't carry bombs.
Uh...might want to research that again...depending on the mission there would be a single 500lbs or 1000lbs bomb carried as well as the cannons.
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No offense Lusche but the P-39Q gets used more than the P-51B or P-40.
No it doesn't. I have the year's total numbers right in front of me.
And even if it would be used more than the 40 (which it does not): That's not my point either. The point is simply the observation that lots of players wanted to have a plane, talked about how great it would be to have & to fly it... and then almost none of them actually uses it it.
What people want and what they really do are often two very different things ;)
Uh...might want to research that again...depending on the mission there would be a single 500lbs or 1000lbs bomb carried as well as the cannons.
Yes sir... will do. :)
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Uh...might want to research that again...depending on the mission there would be a single 500lbs or 1000lbs bomb carried as well as the cannons.
Ok, just did some research.
In "Waffen Arsenal 133 Deutsche Sturzkampfflugzeuge" by Manfred Griehl there is a reproduction of an official document by the Chef TLR (Technische Luftrüstung), date 19 August 1944. It's a complete technical overview of all Ju 87 versions.
For the G-1 and G-2, it states: "Abwurfanlage: entfällt" (Bomb release mechanism: None), which means none of them had any means to carry bombs.
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No it doesn't. I have the year's total numbers right in front of me.
And even if it would be used more than the 40 (which it does not): That's not my point either. The point is simply the observation that lots of players wanted to have a plane, talked about how great it would be to have & to fly it... and then almost none of them actually uses it it.
What people want and what they really do are often two very different things ;)
Well, yeah that's true...especially here...desire for novelty gratification seems to be as prevalent as the desire for instant gratification.
I just re-read what I was quoting about the G series and single bombs...I was mis reading...the description says "often a 500lbs or 1000lbs bomb would be carried during the anti-tank missions"...and upon re-reading it's talking about the combined operations of G-1/G-2 squads and standard Ju-87's with bomb racks...sorry Lusche.
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No it doesn't. I have the year's total numbers right in front of me.
We want pretty pie charts :rofl
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We want pretty pie charts :rofl
Patience, grasshopper! :old:
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It's just that apparently many people seem to overrate it's impact and long time appeal to players in Aces High. It will have it's place for sure, but in the long run it won't pwn tanks more than the Il2 with the 37mm option.
And let's not forget very often players are enthusiastically supporting the inclusion of a plane just because of myths or name recognition - and when it'S there and they have to face the MA cartoon reality they hardly fly it at all ;)
Again, if you follow through that argument to the end we would end up with maybe 4 or 5 top rides being enough to satisfy 99% of the MA flyers. As a Luftwobble from day one I got used to not having the shiniest toys in the batch. A good part of my AH career I spent in the 190A8 which is not best in any role. I did plenty of bomb runs in the fragile Ju-88 and only looked at B-26s from the outside. Maybe it's just my roleplaying ego but I almost feel bad having to up an Il-2 for GV hunting when ord is down. For me personally the JU87G will be my main tank buster if we ever get it.
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Again, if you follow through that argument to the end
I don't ;)
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I don't ;)
:neener:
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The point is simply the observation that lots of players wanted to have a plane, talked about how great it would be to have & to fly it... and then almost none of them actually uses it it.
What people want and what they really do are often two very different things ;)
Indeed. I remember the enthusiasm prior to the release of the P-39. It had more threads on the 2 weeks prior to it's release than ever since.
I'm glad HTC skipped the polling on planes inclusion since that...at least it seems so.
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And even if it would be used more than the 40 (which it does not): That's not my point either. The point is simply the observation that lots of players wanted to have a plane, talked about how great it would be to have & to fly it... and then almost none of them actually uses it it.
What people want and what they really do are often two very different things ;)
I understand your point Lusche its like going to a buffet and overloading because it looks good. But in this case the majority of players in this thread who are asking for the 37mm option fly primarily german only iron, with no other option available for the big guns.
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I understand your point Lusche its like going to a buffet and overloading because it looks good. But in this case the majority of players in this thread who are asking for the 37mm option fly primarily german only iron, with no other option available for the big guns.
Very true. I almost exclusively use the German equipment available in the game...even if it means I'm sure to lose the fight. Once in a while I'll grab something else, and maybe run 1 or 2 sorties with it...then I jump right back in the German gear. Adding the G1 cannon setup should take about the same time as the P-47M did, and that's just because the guns would have to be modeled.
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A shameless bump, to add this great bird
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-646-5184-26%2C_Russland%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_87.jpg)
Even if they just add the weapon pods to the existing model would be enough for me :devil
Edit
and some gun cam videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg
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Ok, just did some research.
In "Waffen Arsenal 133 Deutsche Sturzkampfflugzeuge" by Manfred Griehl there is a reproduction of an official document by the Chef TLR (Technische Luftrüstung), date 19 August 1944. It's a complete technical overview of all Ju 87 versions.
For the G-1 and G-2, it states: "Abwurfanlage: entfällt" (Bomb release mechanism: None), which means none of them had any means to carry bombs.
True but the D-3 was capable of being equipped with either bombs or the 37mm gun pod (like some D-3s were in the Battle of Kursk) but they couldn't carry both bombs or the 37mm cannon.
ack-ack
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Did we ever figure out how much ammo the 37 cannons actually carried? Is it 12 per gun or 12 total?
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Did we ever figure out how much ammo the 37 cannons actually carried? Is it 12 per gun or 12 total?
Doing some reading, it was fitted with two 6 round cartridges per gun, so a total of 12 rounds per pod...that's my understanding of it anyway.
I shall continue the search :noid
dont know how accurate this is;
Barrel Armaments
Ju 87A-2 - One 7.92mm MG 15 manually aimed in rear cockpit
Ju 87B series, R series, C - Two 7.92mm Rheinmetall MG 17 machine guns in wings, One 7.92mm MG 15 manually aimed in rear cockpit
Ju 87D-1 to D-3, D-7 - Two 7.92mm Rheinmetall MG 17 machine guns in wings, one 7.92mm MG 81Z twin machine guns manually aimed in rear cockpit
Ju 87D-4 - Two underwing WB81 weapon containers each housing six MG 81 guns.
Ju 87D-5, D-8 - Two 20mm MG 151/20 cannon in wings, one 7.92mm MG 81Z twin machine guns manually aimed in rear cockpit Ju 87G - Two 37mm Flak 18 Bord Kannone (12 rounds of ammo carried per gun)
Ju 87H - None (Used for training)
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Some info regarding the BK 37:
The Bordkanone BK 37 ((on-)board cannon 37) was a 37mm anti-tank/bomber autocannon based on the earlier 37 mm Flak 18 made by Rheinmetall. It was mounted on World War II Luftwaffe aircraft such as the anti-tank or bomber-destroyer versions of the Junkers Ju 87D-3 and G-2, Henschel Hs 129B-2/R3, Messerschmitt Bf 110G-2/R1-3, and others. The cannon could be attached under the wings or fuselage of the aircraft as a self-contained pod with a 12-round magazine. It fired APCR (Tungsten hard core) ammunition or high explosive shells in 37x263B mm caliber at 160 rounds per minute.
I pulled this info off of the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BK_37 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BK_37)
According to the info here, it is telling me that the BK 37 carried a 12 round magazine. They probably loaded a round into the gun prior to loading the 12 round magazine, meaning each gun would have 13 rounds for a total of 26. But in our case, we would only have 24 rounds total.
I had to quote myself... :lol I know wiki isn't the most reliable source for information, but you can't just dismiss it either. :aok
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2 reasons why we should have this.
1 - This would make the JU-87 a viable tank buster so it would see ALOT more use in the MA's AND it would let me kill more of you guys per sortie with MAI BOOMSTIK5 :D
2 - Hitech and the gang can put an end to Snail and Ack-Ack's CONSTANT debate to what is a much needed add.
Pacman
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seems like a relativly easy addition to the game . . . and it will actually give us some options when it comes to killing people who actually drive in this game (mowar powa to the flyaz!!)
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2 - Hitech and the gang can put an end to Snail and Ack-Ack's CONSTANT debate to what is a much needed add.
Pacman
Well my little tool, if you go back 8-9 years (way before you started playing), you'll find a few threads started by me asking for the Ju 87G-1. You just jumped on the band wagon 9 years too late.
ack-ack
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seems like a relativly easy addition to the game . . . and it will actually give us some options when it comes to killing people who actually drive in this game (mowar powa to the flyaz!!)
It would be easy, all that would be needed would be to give the Ju 87D-3 the option to carry the Flak 18 37 mm cannon gun pods and you now have a Ju 87G-1.
ack-ack
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2 - Hitech and the gang can put an end to Snail and Ack-Ack's CONSTANT debate to what is a much needed add.
Where am I "constantly debating what is a much needed add"? Go and read my postings in this thread again.
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This deserves a spot at the top of the list. Could be done as a loadout option in the hangar.
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Lusche's "constant debating?"
This deserves a spot at the top of the list. Could be done as a loadout option in the hangar.
PERK THE SNAIL!!!!!!!
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come on!!
shameless bump
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Now that WWI has been implemented HiTech can now put more resources into giving us the long awaited JU87 w\37mm.
Happiness! :banana:
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Now that WWI has been implemented HiTech can now put more resources into giving us the long awaited JU87 w\37mm.
Happiness! :banana:
WRONG......they will be debugging wwi for the rest of the year. we are not going to see a new add for a while. Gotta say that I was dissapointed to not see anything major added for aces high
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WRONG......they will be debugging wwi for the rest of the year. we are not going to see a new add for a while. Gotta say that I was dissapointed to not see anything major added for aces high
No...can't be so...add stuff to AH WW2...please please please :cry
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If I can have the 37mm and the bomb load out +1
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We's wants it we's wants our precious
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg
srsly. . .the boom then the splash!! this is super cool.
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We also need the Stuka to be able to pick a torpedo as a loadout and of course the 37mms.
Read Below:
Dora (D) - The D-4 was modified to carry torpedoes.
Gustav (G) - In 1943 the first G-1's entered service (these being converted from D-3's). The G-1 was designed for one purpose only, to kill tanks. To accomplish this mission, the Gustav was equipped with two 37mm Flak 18 cannons. The G-1, and later the G-2 (converted from the long wingspan D-5) proved to be highly successful in "tankbusting", soon earning nicknames like 'Kanonenvogel' (Cannonbird) and 'Panzerknacker' (tank cracker). Most Gustavs were used on the Eastern front but could be found on the Western front as well by the end of the war.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine: Single Engine All Models
Ju 87A-2 - 680 hp Jumo 210 Da with a two-stage supercharger
Ju 87B-1 - 1,100 hp Jumo 211 A
Ju 87B-2 - 1,200 hp Jumo 211 Da 12 Cylinder liquid-cooled inverted Vee
Ju 87R-1 - Same powerplant as Ju 87B-1
Ju 87R-2, R-3 - Same powerplant as Ju 87B-2
Ju 87C - 1,100 hp Jumo 211 A
Ju 87D-1 to D5, G, H - 1,400 hp Jumo 211 J 12 Cylinder liquid-cooled inverted vee
Ju 87D-7 & D-8 - 1,500 hp Jumo 211 P 12 Cylinder liquid-cooled inverted vee
Barrel Armaments
Ju 87A-2 - One 7.92mm MG 15 manually aimed in rear cockpit
Ju 87B series, R series, C - Two 7.92mm Rheinmetall MG 17 machine guns in wings, One 7.92mm MG 15 manually aimed in rear cockpit
Ju 87D-1 to D-3, D-7 - Two 7.92mm Rheinmetall MG 17 machine guns in wings, one 7.92mm MG 81Z twin machine guns manually aimed in rear cockpit
Ju 87D-4 - Two underwing WB81 weapon containers each housing six MG 81 guns.
Ju 87D-5, D-8 - Two 20mm MG 151/20 cannon in wings, one 7.92mm MG 81Z twin machine guns manually aimed in rear cockpit Ju 87G - Two 37mm Flak 18 Bord Kannone (12 rounds of ammo carried per gun)
Ju 87H - None (Used for training)
Drop Ordnance
Ju 87A - Single 250kg bomb
Ju 87B, C - One 250kg bomb on the centerline trapeze and two 50kg bombs on each wing
Ju 87D - Various loads up to a maximum 3,968 lbs
Ju 87D-4 - One 1,687lb LT F5b Torpedo or loads of similar weight.
Ju 87G - None
http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/ju87.htm
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they could also give us the 110 with the 37mm cannon mounted under the nose :pray
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they could also give us the 110 with the 37mm cannon mounted under the nose :pray
Yes, a buff killer. just look at the images.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,281723.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,281723.0.html)
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This deserves a spot at the top of the list. Could be done as a loadout option in the hangar.
It Really does deserve a spot at the top
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:pray
Shameless bump :noid
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(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/tbyguy/acad_ju-87g-1-decals.jpg)
Dare to dream I suppose. :)
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We also need the Stuka to be able to pick a torpedo as a loadout and of course the 37mms.
The D-4 never saw operational service and after testing and evaluation at Travemunde, it was detemined that there were already planes that were better suited for dropping torpedoes like the He-111 and Ju 88. The D-4s were then converted back to their original types (D-1s and D-3s).
Adding the d-4 would be a waste of developer resources and it also does not qualify to be added to the game as it does not meet any of the criteria.
ack-ack
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The more I read about this variant, the more I want it :P
+1
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However, there was a 190 variant made available that was able to carry a single torpedo if my memory serves me... lol, geez, I thought we where talking about Hanz Ulricj Rudels ride of choice? :headscratch:
Anyway, back on topic...the Ju87 armed with 2 37mm anti tank guns seems to be a viable, and easily introduced alternative to the allready over used IL-2...
It would be a breath of fresh air, and I hardly think development would be much of a problem as the dive bombing variant allready egsists.
Why dont we have this aircraft yet...? (oh yeah, it was in Warbirds) :aok
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The issue is that we have the HurriIID - which is pretty close in terms of performance and firepower.
Furthermore, a re-modelling of the Stuka to the AHII standards + the new damage model would be required. So, it's not just adding a different weapons loadout like they did with the B-25, but essentially a new aircraft when the He-111, Do-17, + half-a-dozen Japanese, Russian, and Italian variants probably are priority.
I'd still like to see it however. :aok
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The HurrIID is a pathetic anti-tank plane. Maybe in real life against the earlier lesser armed tanks those low-velocity 40mm guns could do something, but they pale in comparison to the Soviet 37mms on the IL2 and the 37mms on the Ju87.
I've come down in a perfect attack angle before, nearly 80-90 degrees, fired 2 bursts, seen 4 hit sprites in close proximity on the rear deck of a panzer before, and got nothing. I flew several sorties in a row once defending a base from a major GV attack. I unloaded 3-4 sorties' worth of rounds into a handful of tanks (same target over and over) and in one case I unloaded 30 rounds into a single panzer with nothing to show for it (and I was hitting, I did get the kill while I was landing and some GVer killed the guy for me, he wasn't smoking or damaged at that point though so it was not my doing).
Now, if you were to say "We have the IL2 with 37mm, so we don't need the Ju87" you might have a bit of an argument, but the Hurr2D is rubbish. Pure rubbish.
That said, there are differences between our IL2 and the Ju87. The Ju would have higher penetration I believe based on the round fired. It would also handle much more differently than the IL2. IMO the Ju is more docile in handling, lighter on its wings, and would probably be able to make an attack and pull up with less risk of crashing than my usual IL2 sortie.
Let's not forget historic matchups... For historical immersion we should eventually get it for the same reason we should get the Ju-52.
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The issue is that we have the HurriIID - which is pretty close in terms of performance and firepower.
Not even close.
Look here for a good comparison. http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm
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, but the Hurr2D is rubbish. Pure rubbish.
The Hurri IID kills every tank in AH, without exception. Period.
Now since we got the 37mm Il-2 version (and to some extend the B-25h) it's not the best tank buster any more... particularly because of it's low ammo count.
But that doesn't make it "rubbish" at all. Just more difficult to master than the new Il-2.
When we only hat the 23mm Il-2, the Hurri D was the only plane capable of killing Tigers & T34/76 when ords were down. And it can still do that. I can and do routinely kill every vehicle in game with my Hurri D, from Panzer to Sherman & Tiger. The only reason I occasionally up Il-2s at all is the prevalence of the Wirbelwind. And I don't need 30 rounds for a Panzer.
The plane is very capable of killing AH armor. The pilot might not.
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The Hurri IID kills every tank in AH, without exception. Period.
I have to disagree.
I've had more success using the 40mm against AIRCRAFT than I have against tanks! Anything soft is fair game, but unless the armor piercing code has changed in the past 6 months or so my experience has 100% of of the time been no kills, regardless of how wel I performed the attack run, or how sloppy. Close range or long range, same results. Any angle, top down, rear deck, nothing.
I put 18 rounds into the upper surfaces of a panzer once and only smoked his turret after the last pair of shots. After that I said "screw that" and looked for the next target. I figured I'd get a kill but only got an assist as another tank finished him off.
I stand by my "rubbish" criticism, and will continue to do so. I'm not totally unskilled. I can figure out a nice downward angle for best penetration on a target, etc.
Fact of the matter is even with the IL2's 37mm it sometimes takes 4-6 top-down hits over the engine compartment of a panzer to smoke him. I don't honestly know what's up with tanks in this game but it's in no way realistic IMO.
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I have killed every tank type in game at some point with the 2d. While not "rubbish" it is much more difficult than the IL2.
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I'll agree with krusty on this one. I can knock out panzers for fun with the IL, way harder with hurri. I'd like the Ju just to see how it fares. However the Il is still going to be the best purely because of the punishment it can take from wirbs.
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Let's not forget the IL2's 100 rounds as compared to 24 (and those 24 would fire in pairs, so 12 shots only, less than the Hurr2D's 15 shots!)
The IL2 will remain the best for MA use, no doubt.
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I have to disagree.
I've had more success using the 40mm against AIRCRAFT than I have against tanks! Anything soft is fair game, but unless the armor piercing code has changed in the past 6 months or so my experience has 100% of of the time been no kills, regardless of how wel I performed the attack run, or how sloppy. Close range or long range, same results. Any angle, top down, rear deck, nothing.
Question: If one player kills tanks in the Hurricane D, and the other does not.
Is the latter one right when saying: "The plane can't" or the first one saying: "The plane can"? ;)
When there are not too many Wirbels around, I still take up the Hurri D instead of any other plane for tank busting. Actually, since I learned how to use the Hurricane D I basically stopped using bombs to kill tanks, even long before the 25H and the 37mm Il-2 came.
Up to this very moment, I have killed 737 GVs in the Hurricane D in Late War:
4 Jeep
4 LVTA2
17 LVTA4
7 M-16
56 M-3
16 M-8
41 Ostwind
368 Panzer IV H
2 PT Boat
10 SdKfz 251
114 Sherman VC
45 T-34/76
13 T-34/85
31 Tiger I
9 Wirbelwind
:neener:
A few dozen more (including Tigers & T34's) in MW, but I'm, not keeping stats for MW.
Just for the record, the only tank that really gives me fits and usually absorbs most of my shells is the T-34/76. Tigers are easy. Panzers are dead meat on a table.
I'll agree with krusty on this one. I can knock out panzers for fun with the IL way harder with hurri
Of course it's way easier. I do not dispute that. the 37mm Il-2 is like using a hot knife to cut butter.
But I vehemently disagree with the HurriD being "rubbish" or incapable of doing it's job in AH2.
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ok, i wouldnt use rubbish, but it is really inefficient at tank busting. With its armour and ord, the Il has to be the first choice almost every time. The only time I would consider using the hurri is if there is a light cap over the field and enemy gv's in town. Even then do i want manouverability over armour ?
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Forgive the amount of time this takes as I am out of practice. Offline standard settings.
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/22032019/tiger_busting.ahf
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ok, i wouldnt use rubbish, but it is really inefficient at tank busting. With its armour and ord, the Il has to be the first choice almost every time. The only time I would consider using the hurri is if there is a light cap over the field and enemy gv's in town. Even then do i want manouverability over armour ?
Personally I'd say I would prefer maneuverability only when the cap is light, with more heavy cap, when you can't track/evade all of them all the time I would take the armored Il-2. Especially if the enemy is already in town and you suspect m3s are on the roll. Because that's where the Hurri D really sucks: Hunting M3s.
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On one night in particular I kept upping that IID trying to get a kill with it. My experience was much the same as Krusty described, with lovely orange fireballs erupting on the deck above the engine, and yet the tank waltzing on as if I was firing .303s at it.
It was a frustrating night to be sure. Made me think it was some kind of rubber bullet syndrome.
Regardless, I've found when I fly the IID, it is more dangerous to me than my target. Yes, I am certain it is the pilot and not the plane. :o
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On one night in particular I kept upping that IID trying to get a kill with it. My experience was much the same as Krusty described, with lovely orange fireballs erupting on the deck above the engine, and yet the tank waltzing on as if I was firing .303s at it.
It was a frustrating night to be sure. Made me think it was some kind of rubber bullet syndrome.
Regardless, I've found when I fly the IID, it is more dangerous to me than my target. Yes, I am certain it is the pilot and not the plane. :o
That's not unknown to me. That were my 1st, 2nd and 3rd experiences too. I think it took me about a tour of practicing to get the right feel for setting up my attacks.
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3rded :D
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:noid
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+ :aok
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+ :aok
Wassup bro!
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By the mysteries of the deep, by the flames of Banal, by the power of the east and the silence of the night, By the holy rites of Hecate, I conjure and exorcise thee, thou distressed spirit, to present thyself here and reveal unto me the cause of thy calamity why thou didst offer violence to thy own liege life, where thou art now in being, and where thou wilt hereafter be.
I command this thread to rise in life again.
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-005.gif)
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By the mysteries of the deep, by the flames of Banal, by the power of the east and the silence of the night, By the holy rites of Hecate, I conjure and exorcise thee, thou distressed spirit, to present thyself here and reveal unto me the cause of thy calamity why thou didst offer violence to thy own liege life, where thou art now in being, and where thou wilt hereafter be.
I command this thread to rise in life again.
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-005.gif)
ummmmmmm a devote or a fanatic........your coming really close to crossing that line!
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gramatical error, -cough cough-
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I would have fun with that, but I like the B25 more :airplane: :joystick: :aok
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Here....I built this about two years ago....it appeared in FineScale Modeler magazine.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/jherne/jeffs_models/ju87_001.jpg)
J
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Nah Just looked it up on the net for the shock effect. I figured since I was going to raise a dead thread that I needed to go about it the right way. :rofl
I seriously want the Stuka variants that mounted the BK37's though. With all the variants HTC has been adding lately I thought I would bring this one back on the radar.
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dont forget to add the 110 with the 37mm cannon whilst HTC give the luftwaffe some loving
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it would actually bring the ju87 back to life now that the Mossie has basically taken the role it never really could occupy but everyone wanted it to. . . like the Gemans did, let us breath new life into this slow but wonderful plane!!
I am also looking forward to the great sound mod that will come with these guns going off. . . shake the town!
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7f3_1200171304 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7f3_1200171304)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umh_YP5o6k0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umh_YP5o6k0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRUj6RiCj4w&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRUj6RiCj4w&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccOXrfBZoLE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccOXrfBZoLE&feature=related)
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I haven't seen the last video before.
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:joystick:
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The JU-87 W/37 or the HS-129 would be fine with me.
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The thing is. . . it should be relativly easy to add - 2 gun pod options. I know its a diffeent model - but that too can be changed with relative ease since its bascially the same plane with very minor differences. I could understand that adding a brand new plane would take a great deal of time, or even adding some new models (like the yak-3, which would be almost like adding a new plane). . .
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STUKA!
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STUKA!
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HiTech? tap tap tap.........is this thing on? We have been requesting or hearing about this popular request for years. Is there a reason it cannot be implemented or is it under consideration or developement? Just to put this issue to rest one way or the other. My 2 cents is do it. Would be another great addition to game. :cheers:
LTARogue
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to wit, the p39.. I cant remember the last time I saw one in the MA..
i guess u have come across me to often.
P-39D 74kills 64deaths all latewar MA
thats for this month
and the US p-39 37mm did have AP ammo which might make it a tank killer.... but we only have HE here
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Is there somebody with the ability to maybe model the guns as an unofficial "hack" for offline mode? I'd love to see how it flies and shoots. Not necessarily an accurate model but changes the weight to an appropriate number and changes the guns to shoot a large projectile instead of the bb’s? It is just a thought. Again, this would not be for use in any arena.
We may find out that is totally sucks..... :D
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(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/ju87g-2.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-728-0323-24A_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_87.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/33jt6.jpg)
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+1 how much better were these cannon compaired to the Ns-37?
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Going from memory...Better AP capabilities due to velocity? Its some where in this post....he he he
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BK 3.7 (Pz.Gr.)AP 860m/s
NS-37 AP-T 880m/s
Both have tungstin cores of different sizes and conical covers.
The NS-37 AP-T is 752g with a long pointed ogive. Over all length of the round is 194mm.
BK 3.7 (Pz.Gr.) is 410g with a short pointed ogive. Over all length of the round is 114.5mm
External ballistics favors the NS-37 at longer distances because its round is heavier, longer, and has a longer ogive(nose) starting from a higher initial velocity. It is more stable which is what you want in an AP round. Penetrates 50mm of armor at 200m. The shorter BK37 AP will have parabolic dispersion problems due to its short nose and short OL.
If you ever look at the Ju87-G1 armerors guide it shows a horrendous dispersion cone of 3m at 400m for each individual BK3.7. The crossing point for the two guns is at 400m which reduces the dispertion for both combined at 400m to 3m. Wider dispersion means the point of the round may not be hitting dead center on it's own axis which will contribute to the targets ability to cause it to not penetrate if its angled to the round.
The armerors diagram shows the Revi line of sight set level to infinity. The BK3.7 is elevated to fire up and cross the Revi line of sight at 375m. With both the NS and BK you get the sense distances were very close to kill anything with armor plate on it?
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BK 3.7 Specifications
• Type: single-barrel automatic cannon
• Caliber: 37 mm (1.46 in)
• Cartridge: 37 mm x 263
• Operation: Short Recoil
• Length: 3.63 m (11 ft 11 in)
• Weight: 295 kg (650 lb)
• Rate of fire: 160 rpm
• Muzzle velocity: 1,170 to 780 m/s (3,836 to 2,557 ft/s)
• Projectile weight: APCR 380 g, HE 640 g, AT 685 g
The remaining German guns were all adaptations of ground guns. The first was the 37 mm BK 3,7, a modified version of the FlaK 18 AA gun firing the same 37x263B ammunition. This meant that it was bulky, heavy and slow-firing by comparison with the NS-37, for example. It also remained clip-fed, with a maximum capacity of just 12 rounds. It mainly fired Hartkernmunition ammo, capable of penetrating up to 140 mm / 100 m / 90 degrees although this was halved at a striking angle of 60 degrees.
NS 37 Specifications
• Type: single-barrel automatic cannon
• Caliber: 37 mm (1.46 in)
• Operation: short recoil
• Length: 2455mm (N-37D)
• Weight (complete): 103 kg (227 lb)
• Rate of fire: 400 rpm
• Muzzle velocity 900 m/s (HE, HEI-T), 880 m/s (AP-T)
• Projectile weight: 735 g (26 oz)
The NS-37, unusually for the USSR, used a short-recoil mechanism and was belt-fed. It was a particularly slim weapon, with a compact mechanism, suitable for fitting between the banks of a liquid-cooled vee-engine to fire through the hollow propeller hub. The powerful 37x195 ammunition is quoted as penetrating 48mm / 500m / 90 degrees, enough to pose a threat to the side or rear armor of virtually any tank.
Um who's right?
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HOing bombers will never be the same. Plus 1.
When (if) the Stuka gets updated, can we have a three 250 kilo bomb loadout option? The 250s on the wings are handy, but it takes a while to get to alt with the big momma on board. A center mounted 250 would be useful for quicker kills.
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If you could catch them.
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Do you think that the BK 37's will be added when the Stuka get's updated? I can only imagine how much more of a sexy beast it will be once it's updated and the BK's are added.... :joystick: :x
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could you imagine the later model, with 2 20mms in the wings and a set of TB cannons, you would have to perk a Stuka :lol
that said, +1 million for a Cannon Stuka, both a2a and a2g cannons! :devil
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Stuka needs the ability to up with no ordance also!
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Stuka needs the ability to up with no ordance also!
Definitely.
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could you imagine the later model, with 2 20mms in the wings and a set of TB cannons, you would have to perk a Stuka :lol
that said, +1 million for a Cannon Stuka, both a2a and a2g cannons! :devil
The G-2 didn't retain the 20mm wing cannons of the D-5, which is the airframe the G-2 is based on.
ack-ack
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BK 3.7 Specifications
• Type: single-barrel automatic cannon
• Caliber: 37 mm (1.46 in)
• Cartridge: 37 mm x 263
• Operation: Short Recoil
• Length: 3.63 m (11 ft 11 in)
• Weight: 295 kg (650 lb)
• Rate of fire: 160 rpm
• Muzzle velocity: 1,170 to 780 m/s (3,836 to 2,557 ft/s)
• Projectile weight: APCR 380 g, HE 640 g, AT 685 g
The remaining German guns were all adaptations of ground guns. The first was the 37 mm BK 3,7, a modified version of the FlaK 18 AA gun firing the same 37x263B ammunition. This meant that it was bulky, heavy and slow-firing by comparison with the NS-37, for example. It also remained clip-fed, with a maximum capacity of just 12 rounds. It mainly fired Hartkernmunition ammo, capable of penetrating up to 140 mm / 100 m / 90 degrees although this was halved at a striking angle of 60 degrees.
NS 37 Specifications
• Type: single-barrel automatic cannon
• Caliber: 37 mm (1.46 in)
• Operation: short recoil
• Length: 2455mm (N-37D)
• Weight (complete): 103 kg (227 lb)
• Rate of fire: 400 rpm
• Muzzle velocity 900 m/s (HE, HEI-T), 880 m/s (AP-T)
• Projectile weight: 735 g (26 oz)
The NS-37, unusually for the USSR, used a short-recoil mechanism and was belt-fed. It was a particularly slim weapon, with a compact mechanism, suitable for fitting between the banks of a liquid-cooled vee-engine to fire through the hollow propeller hub. The powerful 37x195 ammunition is quoted as penetrating 48mm / 500m / 90 degrees, enough to pose a threat to the side or rear armor of virtually any tank.
Um who's right?
Depending on the BK 3.7 ammo 860-900m/sec. Yes the BK 3.7 18. 1170m/sec H.Pzgr....M.Pzgr is HE semi AP at the lower M/sec.
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could you imagine the later model, with 2 20mms in the wings and a set of TB cannons, you would have to perk a Stuka :lol
that said, +1 million for a Cannon Stuka, both a2a and a2g cannons! :devil
It would definately get more use!
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(http://pics.prikol.ru/wp-content/gallery/february-2011/ww2-aircraft-06.jpg)
OH HEEEALLLZ YEHHHH BOYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEE :rock :rock :rock
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(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/197612_1910477727739_1415742882_32210752_1826831_n.jpg)
Well for some reason the link above isn't working, so here's the pic that should be above.... :rolleyes:
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Looks like that T-34 is about to have a VERY bad day. hehehe
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Looks like that T-34 is about to have a VERY bad day. hehehe
then the tiger is gonna flip over on the little brick wall and need supplies. :D
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Was wondering about this yesterday and thought I would post it here. Ok here goes, If/when the 37mm gun pods get added will they be considered part of a gun package or as wing ord? If considered wing ord, will they be able to take damage? For as long as I have been playing (admittedly less than a year) I have never seen or heard of ord taking damage while still on the plane, this includes bombs, rockets, and drop tanks...so again the question - would gun pods take damage if considered ord in the loadout hangar? I know some here would point to the IL-2 or the cannon Hurri and say their guns are part of a guns package and how their large guns can be disabled from damage, but from what I can tell the guns on those planes are built into the airframe we have modeled in game where as the 37mm guns for the stuka are in gun pods that could be removed or attached as the sortie required.
All right, summary. How would HTC implement the gun pods in the loadout hangar? Is it even possible to damage ord still on a plane in game right now, and if not would HTC have to spend extra time to code in damageable gun pods for the stuka, and would they extend that extra coding to include all external options for all planes in game? Anybody out there got answers or opinions on this?
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I would settle for the addition of MG151/20's in our D-3. The JU87 D-8 (which has the identical airframe/wings of our current D-3) had them. It sounds like a very simple upgrade and would give the Stuka a lot of use, not to mention the ability to kill aircraft with ease (Dont say it wont transform it into a decent dogfighter Mr. Ack because I kill many a plane in SBD's) :aok
If we do get the 37mm pods, definitely should not be perked, unless the il-2's 37mm get perked as well
Back to the MG151/20 idea, very little changes to the damage model and graphics would be required. :pray
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I would settle for the addition of MG151/20's in our D-3. The JU87 D-8 (which has the identical airframe/wings of our current D-3) had them.
The Ju 87D-8 was built off the D-5 air frame, not the D-3. It's easy to tell by the wings.
(Dont say it wont transform it into a decent dogfighter Mr. Ack because I kill many a plane in SBD's)
It won't. Sorry to burst your bubble.
ack-ack
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The Ju 87D-8 was built off the D-5 air frame, not the D-3. It's easy to tell by the wings.
In any case, there were definitely MG151 equipped Stukas with the same airframe and wing shape as our current model.
It won't. Sorry to burst your bubble.
ack-ack
Maybe not for you, but we had a snapshot frame 2 in SEA that pitted Val's vs Stukas in pure dogfighting, just for fun. Stukas were able to best the Vals in at least 50% of the turnfights.
Kermit was there, many other vet pilots. Sure it's not a vert fighter like the pee38, I'm not saying that it is. It is slow, sure, but so are the Brews and SBD's, ect.
Point is, a good stuka pilot will have much, much better chances to get air2air kills and RTB with the 20mil's added.
(ps, there is quite a few Luft pilots that take them up to dogfight in MA just for fun) :aok
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then the tiger is gonna flip over on the little brick wall and need supplies. :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Holy friggin crap! That made me spit my drink all over my monitor.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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+1 Still hoping for this and the Siren also :joystick:
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Still isn't here? :bolt:
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Oh and please take the 1000 foot alt requirment for arming bombs away for stuka's only
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Oh and please take the 1000 foot alt requirment for arming bombs away for stuka's only
There isn't a 1000 foot altitude requirement to arm bombs, the bombs have to travel a certain amount of feet before they are armed and that travel could be in either the vertical or horizontal plane.
ack-ack
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HT,
So, after you guys get finished with the interior redesign of the Stuka. Can we get the 37mms after that?
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/Flugzeuge/Erdkampf/Ju87D-5/cockpit/gross/1.jpg)
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/Flugzeuge/Erdkampf/Ju87D-5/cockpit/klein/Ju%2087%20Panzerknacker.jpg)
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1313/154ci.jpg)
:aok
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Still isn't here? :bolt:
Horrible isn't it.
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A German plane with an evil grin like that? Oh yeh!
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Bumping for justice. :aok
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GIVE US THE TOY!
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YES!
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I know this question gets asked alot but.........Can we please just get a quick and dirty answer on the why or why not about this particular load out or plane addition? This thread and many others about the 87 with the 37mm load out have been around for along time and we get nothing but silence from HTC. Please just a quick thought from dale!
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they want it to be a surprise so huge it will give heart attacks to people.
and then they will be sued.
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HT,
So, after you guys get finished with the interior redesign of the Stuka. Can we get the 37mms after that?
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/Flugzeuge/Erdkampf/Ju87D-5/cockpit/gross/1.jpg)
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/Flugzeuge/Erdkampf/Ju87D-5/cockpit/klein/Ju%2087%20Panzerknacker.jpg)
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1313/154ci.jpg)
:aok
So that curved adjustable base plate for the Revi12C/D(Schwenkplatte) can be seen at this link for the Ju87. Are we going to get a working version of that? ;)
Fl.52196 Schwenkplatte mit Revi12C/D - Revi12 with base mount to attache to curved plate.
Fl.52196 Schwenkplatte fur Revi12C/D - Curved plate to recieve Revi12.
http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/instrumente/katalog/revi/revi.htm
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A German plane with an evil grin like that? Oh yeh!
First class return-to-tower service with a smile. :D
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I summon you back from the dead.
Seriously already I've read Stuka pilot 3 times in 2 months already.
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It's not dead. It's simmering slowly. :D
Oh, and +1 to BK.37's (again), and could you toss in an updated Stuka in that while ye be at it please? :x
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IT IS BACK!
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we need this.
+1,000,000,000,000,000.00
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wow talk about a punt...
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I agree with myself and others who have returned from the past to haunt me.
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+1 on adding the g2 with the 37mm package, 12 rounds per gun and not 6 as some seem to be fanatically convinced of. There was a 6 round magazine on each side of each gun pod, the inner mag is not the ejection port as some believe. I think that anyone who watches the included link and pays attention to the last 16 or so seconds can very clearly see loaded magazines on both sides of the pods. The guns were set to fire in tandem which boils down to 12 times firing the pair and a possible 12 dead gv's. I know this thread has been kicked around alot and there has been much debate on the ammo loadout and I hope this will clear up the confusion and hitech will finally give us the g2 with 37mm pack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umh_YP5o6k0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umh_YP5o6k0&feature=related)
Enjoy,
Mendo
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+1 on adding the g2 with the 37mm package, 12 rounds per gun and not 6 as some seem to be fanatically convinced of. There was a 6 round magazine on each side of each gun pod, the inner mag is not the ejection port as some believe. I think that anyone who watches the included link and pays attention to the last 16 or so seconds can very clearly see loaded magazines on both sides of the pods. The guns were set to fire in tandem which boils down to 12 times firing the pair and a possible 12 dead gv's. I know this thread has been kicked around alot and there has been much debate on the ammo loadout and I hope this will clear up the confusion and hitech will finally give us the g2 with 37mm pack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umh_YP5o6k0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umh_YP5o6k0&feature=related)
Enjoy,
Mendo
There is no need to make a separate Stuka model, which is what the G2 would need (G2 was based on the Ju87D-5). To get the G-1, just add the ordnance option of the 37mm cannon for the existing D-3 and that would convert it to the G-1, which is based on the Ju-87 we currently have in game. Far less trouble than creating a new plane model.
ack-ack
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In my opinion a 20mm one (d-5?) would be more useful, protecting from being hoed. That 12 rpg is just not so much.
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Some new pics I have found. Well clearer :aok
Edit: Well I guess I posted these before on this link :o
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/00047914.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-646-5184-26_Russland_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_87.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-728-0323-24A_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_87-1.jpg)
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WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG?! D:
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TIME TO SHOW FLAKPANZER"S A LESSON!
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I actually am surprised that we do not have this yet. I would assume that whenever the JU87 gets updated that this model will be included.
The reason I believe this is that we've just seen the P40 updated, and different models added. At the same time we received updated Panzer IV and three different versions. And earlier, the Mossie was updated, and soon after a different model came out, as well as the M3, when updated that had a new version.
I believe that the going trend now is that when something gets added, or updated, the most logical sense being to get the biggest bang for your buck. (i.e include the varations) This further makes sense to me in that I would suspect it is getting harder and harder to include new aircraft due to more complex modeling of the aircraft, and the probable rariety of data to recreat a new aircraft that we do not have. (iar.80 for example...anyone have those blueprints?)
^yeah I know I kinda went off on a tangent there :uhoh
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one dive, six shots well put...
kaboom :devil
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shameless bump.
look them up on youtube. . .I on't know about the 37s we have ingame - but the towering pillars of water from when these planes attacked ships along the rivers and waterways of the russian outback are. . .amazing.
and its so easy. . .
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Ok lets talk tank busting and the JU-87Gs 3.7mm cannon And how it compares to the Soviet NS-37 cannon the IL-2 was armed with.
The German BK 3,7 cannon was belt fed so it had a relatively small ammo load out. I always thought the load out was 16 rounds per gun for an overall 32. Far less then the IL-2, which loads out at 50 per gun.
The NS-37 fired an 760 gram AP round made of hardened steel at 880 m/s, with a ROF of 250 rpm "500 rpm with 2 guns". It was rated to punch thru 50mm of any tanks armor at 200 m. Developing 294,000 joules of muzzle energy.
The BK 3,7 gun of the JU-87G fired a 405 gram tungsten core AP shell at 1,140 m/s with an ROF of 160 rpm "2 guns = 320 rpm", developing 263,000 joules of muzzle energy. I dont remember what this round was rated for penetration-wise but we can assume at least the same as the NS-37.
Strange that the Soviets used tungsten core for their ground anti-tank weapons but not for the NS-37. There were pro and con for the Germans using the smaller tungsten round at a higher velocity. While it would shoot flatter it wouldn't cause as much damage as the heavier 37mm rounds and tungsten was nothing special when it came to secondary burning, "unlike depleted uranium". On the Pro side the round surpassed the 250,000 joule limit of M/E widely believed to be the figure needed to penetrate any WW-ll tank.
So it shot a smaller tungsten round with a faster velocity, at a much slower ROF, a smaller load out. I would bet the JU-87 would be a fine stable platform and this would be an efficient tank killer in the game, as it was in actual use.
The Luftwaffe was very careful in awarding kills to their pilots. I believe Rudel killed all those tanks and think the "G" would be a fine addition to AH. :salute
3,7cm! not mm
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We need this incase of NyanCat attacks!
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/9190-Critical-Miss-Die-Nyankatze (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/9190-Critical-Miss-Die-Nyankatze)
oh and killing GVs :t
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We need this...why; why not. we could have Germans represented with a tank killing airplane gun. US has 75mm Brits 40mn and russians 37mm.
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There is no need to make a separate Stuka model, which is what the G2 would need (G2 was based on the Ju87D-5). To get the G-1, just add the ordnance option of the 37mm cannon for the existing D-3 and that would convert it to the G-1, which is based on the Ju-87 we currently have in game. Far less trouble than creating a new plane model.
ack-ack
This sounds great and would be a quick way to get the gun package As it is the skinners wont work on it as it needs to be updated to AH2 standards.
The D-5 carried 20mm's a non enimic gun pakage.
Ii would be nice to have 2 Stuka's D-3 <bombing version> and D-5 w/20mm's <attack version> w/the G2 option <tank killer> in the hanger.
If they are going to update the Ju87, make the new model then.
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We need this...why; why not. we could have Germans represented with a tank killing airplane gun. US has 75mm Brits 40mn and russians 37mm.
You don't have to have one for every country. That's a false notion. If it was important, I agree we need it. But just because they don't have one? Germany also didn't have heavy bombers like the B-17 or 1200-mi escort fighters for their bombers.
The 75mm on a B-25H isn't an anti-tank gun. It was anti-shipping, and is loaded with HE. I even fired a round 300 yards into the engine compartment of a Sherman and didn't even smoke him. Just plinked, flew over him and never did any damage. I have got 1 or 2 lucky kills on panzr or wirb chassis, but I've wasted more rounds than I have received kills.
As for the 87G? In WB it was a little underwhelming... I don't see it being a super canopener here, but lately I've been thinking it would be nice.
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The 75mm on a B-25H isn't an anti-tank gun. It was anti-shipping, and is loaded with HE. I even fired a round 300 yards into the engine compartment of a Sherman and didn't even smoke him. Just plinked, flew over him and never did any damage. I have got 1 or 2 lucky kills on panzr or wirb chassis, but I've wasted more rounds than I have received kills.
You must have hit the left side of the M4 when the bug was still present. If you hit the engine compartment or either of the flanks or top of the turret of the M4 with the 75mm on the B-25H, you have a dead Sherman. Same with any of the other tanks in this game. Hit the top of the turret and the tank goes BOOM! with the 75mm cannon.
ack-ack
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This was before the 75mm, this was the Firefly. It was dead on aft, almost as 90 degrees as you can get (I was honestly afraid of crashing before i got the shot). Fired, saw the hit, pulled up and flew over his head. He probably crapped a brick, but other than that, no damage.
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Friendly neighborhood bump! :aok :noid
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Achievment Unlocked!
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3 Years later. :lol :salute
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A variant that has been on Wishlist forever, finally coming to game :rock
:cheers: Oz
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:banana: :joystick: Thank you Hitech and crew
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:banana: :joystick: Thank you Hitech and crew
^^^^^^^
THIS :rock
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MY NEW FIGHTER :D :rock
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:banana: :joystick: Thank you Hitech and crew
heartfelt thanks
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I'm coming back to the game now....hope it's worth it.
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Whoooo Hooooo! :banana:
Thanks Hitech!
Patience really does payoff. :aok
:D
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Can I also have more bomb options Hitech?
I would like to take 3 250kgs, or 1 500kg & 2 250kgs.
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Can I also have more bomb options Hitech?
I would like to take 3 250kgs, or 1 500kg & 2 250kgs.
Ditto for the F-8, purty please (more ord options). :pray
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Ditto for the F-8, purty please (more ord options). :pray
Hey hey this is the JU87 thread go make your own F-8 :pray thread, but I would like more ord options on F-8 aswell.