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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Guppy35 on December 02, 2010, 10:16:40 PM

Title: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 02, 2010, 10:16:40 PM
Karnak had an interesting comment in another thread in response to my suggestion to unperk all the planes in Latewar.

He suggests that this would send more folks to Midwar, which would not be a bad thing.

I'm of the opinion that this might solve the furballer v war winner struggles too as I would guess that many of the furballers would migrate to midwar for the air combat, while all the jets, Temps etc in latewar might be more helpful to the war winners.

Per usual I could be completely off on this, but it's an interesting thought anyway.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: MarineUS on December 02, 2010, 10:22:23 PM
 :huh
-1 x a million

I see nothing but this becoming a 262 furball at 40K, just to wind down towards the earth in a spiral of canon fire  :joystick:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: MachFly on December 02, 2010, 10:22:43 PM
That would totally kill the late war arena, if not the whole AH.

You will not see anything but the 262 and B-29.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Karnak on December 02, 2010, 10:34:27 PM
While I do think that Mid War would become a lot more popular for awhile, overall I think it would kill the game and company as more people choose to quit rather than suffer the jet dominated Late War or the loss of access to their personal favorite plane.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: BoilerDown on December 02, 2010, 10:46:04 PM
I'm not interested in a 262 arena replacing the current late war arena, no.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 68ZooM on December 02, 2010, 10:51:46 PM
 262's is all you would see, wait till dec9th its Jet week free jets, go dogfight'em guys
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: tarmack on December 02, 2010, 11:03:00 PM
Heck cmon to Mid War anyhow, lots of fun.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SunBat on December 02, 2010, 11:31:18 PM
Corky, the Trollbat approves this troll and welcomes u into our ranks. U will be seeing a new board in the "Squadrons" section very soon. Just come on in. I think u may be surprised who all is there.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 02, 2010, 11:42:15 PM
OK so the "it's war"  "Anything goes" crowd thinks there should be limits now on the "war"?

LOL make up your minds!
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 02, 2010, 11:43:54 PM
What a dumb idea.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SunBat on December 02, 2010, 11:46:38 PM
OK so the "it's war"  "Anything goes" crowd thinks there should be limits now on the "war"?

LOL make up your minds!

Can someone please make a TrollGuppy for this man?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 02, 2010, 11:48:23 PM
What a dumb idea.

LOL I thought you were an 'anything goes' type of guy Grizz?  "Wouldn't it provide more of a challenge for your 262 o doom?

Still waiting on your ideas btw.  Clearly you do believe there needs to be some limits then on "anything goes"?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 02, 2010, 11:51:59 PM
Corky, the Trollbat approves this troll and welcomes u into our ranks. U will be seeing a new board in the "Squadrons" section very soon. Just come on in. I think u may be surprised who all is there.

I'd have tried to be a little more subtle if I was trolling SunBat. Gotta give me a little bit of credit :)

Folks hate ENY, hate, not flying what they want, claim that it's 'war' and that 'anything goes'.  How does giving folks what they claim to want, become a bad idea?

BTW I'd include uncapping the arena too as I believe that 'minority' of 'furballers' would soon disappear or migrate to midwar.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SunBat on December 02, 2010, 11:54:03 PM
LOL I thought you were an 'anything goes' type of guy Grizz?  "Wouldn't it provide more of a challenge for your 262 o doom?

Still waiting on your ideas btw.  Clearly you do believe there needs to be some limits then on "anything goes"?

I want to bite on this troll. (Some of u other wimps should do more of the same.)

The limits we have now are perfect.  The guys at HTC are geniuses. 

I think our point was anything goes within the limits of the game.  Nobody would want to implement a Goodyear blimp sized bullet or a nook that you drop in the middle of the map and it's all over.  Is that how you have interpreted these comments?  Really?

Really? 


There is an emoticon for that. 

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SunBat on December 02, 2010, 11:57:10 PM
LOL I thought you were an 'anything goes' type of guy Grizz?  "Wouldn't it provide more of a challenge for your 262 o doom?

Still waiting on your ideas btw.  Clearly you do believe there needs to be some limits then on "anything goes"?

I want to bite on this troll. (Some of u other wimps should do more of the same.)

The limits we have now are perfect.  The guys at HTC are geniuses. 

I think our point was anything goes within the limits of the game.  Nobody would want to implement a Goodyear blimp sized bullet or a nook that you drop in the middle of the map and it's all over.  Is that how you have interpreted these comments?  Really?

Really? 


There is an emoticon for that. 

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 02, 2010, 11:57:42 PM
LOL I thought you were an 'anything goes' type of guy Grizz?  "Wouldn't it provide more of a challenge for your 262 o doom?

Still waiting on your ideas btw.  Clearly you do believe there needs to be some limits then on "anything goes"?

It's just a dreadful idea.  Elaborating anymore would just be an incredible waste of time.

I am going to post my ideas/game improvements soon, expect them in two-three weeks.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: ink on December 03, 2010, 12:02:02 AM
Guppy......how about instead of unperking everything, everythng gets a perk.....every plane......every GV everything.               open one late war arena with a simular setup as we have now just no caps,get rid of ''rank'' not scores, have a dot radar to the deck, 3 uncapturable bases center map, every map, 1 each country, open a second arena that has 200'' dar, no uncaptuable bases, this arena you have to choose what you want to Rank as ie..fighter....bomber..ect, and for that tour you can only score-rank in what you chose, this arena could be more along the lines of qued mission's here is where you always earn perks earn them for joining missions earn more of a % if you complete your mission, but even if you die you recieve some perks, you would still recieve perks and keep track of every thing but only ''Rank'' in one catorgory......this would apease both ''furballers'' and ''warballers'' (haha)    been thinking about this idea for awhile now.   of course it may be dumb to all but me.....lol
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 03, 2010, 12:03:01 AM
What would it hurt to try?  Seriously.  Do it with two Late wars then.  One the way it is, and one anything goes. I'd really love to see how the numbers would go.   Un cap them both.  See what happens.  You aren't taking away anything from anyone then
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 03, 2010, 12:04:37 AM
What would it hurt to try?  Seriously.  Do it with two Late wars then.  One the way it is, and one anything goes. I'd really love to see how the numbers would go.   Un cap them both.  See what happens.  You aren't taking away anything from anyone then

Dreadful.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 03, 2010, 12:07:30 AM
Guppy......how about instead of unperking everything, everythng gets a perk.....every plane......every GV everything.               open one late war arena with a simular setup as we have now just no caps,get rid of ''rank'' not scores, have a dot radar to the deck, 3 uncapturable bases center map, every map, 1 each country, open a second arena that has 200'' dar, no uncaptuable bases, this arena you have to choose what you want to Rank as ie..fighter....bomber..ect, and for that tour you can only score-rank in what you chose, this arena could be more along the lines of qued mission's here is where you always earn perks earn them for joining missions earn more of a % if you complete your mission, but even if you die you recieve some perks, you would still recieve perks and keep track of every thing but only ''Rank'' in one catorgory......this would apease both ''furballers'' and ''warballers'' (haha)    been thinking about this idea for awhile now.   of course it may be dumb to all but me.....lol

Sure.  Works for me.  I really want to see how the numbers would go.  I'm so tired of hearing that the game is the problem.  Your idea works too.  Put up or shut up time.  Do it for a month.  Find out how many folks would go where.  I just want the win the war folks to have it the way they want it.  if that's where the money is, and the numbers then we'd better feed them.

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 03, 2010, 12:10:45 AM
Dreadful.

Why Grizz?  I want the win the war folks to have their fun back.  They are the  future or the present for that matter if all the complaining is to be believed.  Give them what they want and lets see what happens.

Based on the whines, if it changed the money would pour into HTC with new subscribers.  Maybe this allows for faster plane development, terrains, or whatever.  This is about the bottom line in the end.

And I'm dead serious.  Maybe i get my Beaufighter faster then :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: ink on December 03, 2010, 12:34:14 AM
just was getting some more thoughts uhoh.............two arena's, set up like i was saying.......the mission based arena you can see missions from all sides, basic info like what planes,  what targets, perks earned, enough info to deside what you want to fly, no cross coms.....ya i know some will use ventrillo but that would be considerd cheating, this ''war'' arena, vulching, hourding, NOE would all be common for thats what happens in a war, the other arena would be more around the furballing gving bombing for fun and practice for the ''war'' vulching would be immpossable more ack at field, hording would be immpossable due to zone ENY, at least make those two espects much harder or just plain not worth it, like if you are the only green you get exponentialy more perks, if you are one of the many green you get much less points for a kil,l numbers being equal then points awarded as they are now.   again every plane, gv, bomber,cost perks, in the war arena perks are not involved in what mission you can join.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 03, 2010, 12:49:57 AM
The more I think about it, the more I still think it's worth a shot.  Part of the argument lately beyond arena limits, is the difficulty for the base takers.  What about the novice fighter pilots?  Maybe it's just too hard to get good at it.  Unperk em and taking a 262 isn't a risk anymore. 

Think about those newbs tooling around in their first couple of weeks in a Spit or a Mustang.  All of a sudden a couple of 262s are in the area flown by skilled vets out whacking baby seals in a cool and efficent manner.  How discouraging is that?  Why would you ever come out of the horde?  you don't have enough perks for a 262 and you have no chance to shoot that guy down.  Why even try and learn?

Not much different an argument then saying the towns don't stay down long enough, or the acks are too tough.

If you too can have a 262 and not worry about breaking it, would it not be more incentive to go up and fight those guys and try and catch up?  There will be enough semi-vets out there in other birds to keep it interesting, but unperking everything gives the new guys a chance to compete right away.

If the goal is to keep people in the game, and draw new folks in, then why not let them at all the toys early on?  Throw in no caps, and reverting to the easier base capture, reset the maps, and again we up the income for HTC, and maybe speed development, new planes and tanks, etc.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grumpy37 on December 03, 2010, 01:06:45 AM
jets have been free in AvA for a week now and I havnt flown one once.  I know im just 1 out of a lot but i dont think it would be jet dominated as you say......
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 03, 2010, 01:17:52 AM


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Trolling_drawing.jpg)

 :salute

You're good.


wrongway
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: waystin2 on December 03, 2010, 06:29:20 AM
-1
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: scot12b on December 03, 2010, 06:37:16 AM
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x100/scot12b/1089_1181441256_ovso.gif)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Kazaa on December 03, 2010, 07:35:30 AM
Karnak had an interesting comment in another thread in response to my suggestion to unperk all the planes in Latewar.

He suggests that this would send more folks to Midwar, which would not be a bad thing.

I'm of the opinion that this might solve the furballer v war winner struggles too as I would guess that many of the furballers would migrate to midwar for the air combat, while all the jets, Temps etc in latewar might be more helpful to the war winners.

Per usual I could be completely off on this, but it's an interesting thought anyway.

Words can not express how bad this idea is, so I have a GIF.

This was my reaction after reading your post:

(http://img.izismile.com/img/img3/20101126/1000/friday_gif_collection_08.gif)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: uptown on December 03, 2010, 07:44:34 AM
 :lol 
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 03, 2010, 09:09:54 AM
Karnak had an interesting comment in another thread in response to my suggestion to unperk all the planes in Latewar.

He suggests that this would send more folks to Midwar, which would not be a bad thing.

I'm of the opinion that this might solve the furballer v war winner struggles too as I would guess that many of the furballers would migrate to midwar for the air combat, while all the jets, Temps etc in latewar might be more helpful to the war winners.

Per usual I could be completely off on this, but it's an interesting thought anyway.

Not really.  The main arenas will become the Jet arenas and the midwar is going to become the MA.  You cannot change people by putting them in a different arena.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 03, 2010, 09:44:32 AM
lol One arena setup like it is..... and one arena with no perks no caps no rules.

haha then folks would talk with their actions instead of their mouths.

My bet is the arena with perks, setup like it is now, would end up being the LW Main. It would serve to confirm HiTech's direction chosen.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: captain1ma on December 03, 2010, 09:54:50 AM
Next week ,December 9th, 2010, i will be running JET WEEK in the AVA. only jets will be available, they will be unperked, or free, so that anyone can fly them. lets see how a jet filled arena works out!
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 03, 2010, 11:02:03 AM
Next week ,December 9th, 2010, i will be running JET WEEK in the AVA. only jets will be available, they will be unperked, or free, so that anyone can fly them. lets see how a jet filled arena works out!

Want me to tell you and save you the effort?  :neener:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: DEECONX on December 03, 2010, 11:18:23 AM
I dont do much with "the war" except defend a base or two occassionally. This would ruin Furballing in the LW MA as planes that are late war, but not perked, would never see use and become the biggest set of hangar queens as everyone would be in 262s. I say a big NO to this.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: toonces3 on December 03, 2010, 11:36:41 AM
I think it's a good idea.


Even if all the jets are free, there would still be plenty of folks that would fly their ride of choice.  Lot's of guys have thousands of fighter perks, but never use them.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: CAP1 on December 03, 2010, 11:43:15 AM
Want me to tell you and save you the effort?  :neener:

guys like me, grumpy, dicho, oldman, jaeger1......we'll probably spend our nights getting picked by the guy that're afraid to turn their jets.......
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yeager on December 03, 2010, 12:13:21 PM
It would serve to confirm HiTech's direction chosen.
Y'ever been on a cattle farm?  Lets just call HT "The Rancher" and we are "The Cattle".

Now dont get me wrong...there are bound to be some smart cattle in the herd, but by and large we depend on the rancher.  Be good to him because he feeds us and keeps us warm  :cool:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 03, 2010, 12:15:36 PM
Hey 80th, go to the DA.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 03, 2010, 12:21:21 PM
Y'ever been on a cattle farm?  Lets just call HT "The Rancher" and we are "The Cattle".

Now dont get me wrong...there are bound to be some smart cattle in the herd, but by and large we depend on the rancher.  Be good to him because he feeds us and keeps us warm  :cool:

Agreed!  :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yenny on December 03, 2010, 12:26:49 PM
who the hell flys 262 at 40k? i'd be ridin the treeline w/ 262 to mask my appraoch xD
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 03, 2010, 12:27:13 PM
Hey 80th, go to the DA.

LOL this isn't about the 80th Grizz.

In all honesty, I've come to the conclusion that I can find fun however the game is set up.  If anything you've been the one to convince me that I need to think outside my little world.

I want folks to enjoy the game.  Why not give them what they want?  No cap, fly what you want, revert to old capture and reset methods and have at it.

Why is this such a bad idea?  

You'll never find me in a jet.  I'll still be staggering around in my 38G, down low, with an engine out or smoking.  Nothing has changed for me and it won't.  What I hear is squads have been ruined and everyone is leaving because the game has been wrecked by caps, Eny, and making base capture too hard.

I'm a convert now and I mean it.  Give them what they want and see what happens.  I'll be fine no matter what.  It's not about me.  I'm trying to look at the bigger picture.

Funny part is no one has given me a reason that my suggestion is bad.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 321BAR on December 03, 2010, 12:27:37 PM
guys like me, grumpy, dicho, oldman, jaeger1......we'll probably spend our nights getting picked by the guy that're afraid to turn their jets.......
try this sometime. get so aggressive in a 262 in the MA that youre rolling scissors with a 51 :t somehow i got 5 kills out of my low alt attack and the entire time it was a dogfight which i was roping 51s and spits, turning with a 51 and alot more that many wouldn't dare do. did it just for fun and it was much more successful than i thought it would be :rofl

fun times go to the perk spenders that do it for that one moment of fun :aok landed the kills for the sortie too
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: CAP1 on December 03, 2010, 12:32:49 PM
try this sometime. get so aggressive in a 262 in the MA that youre rolling scissors with a 51 :t somehow i got 5 kills out of my low alt attack and the entire time it was a dogfight which i was roping 51s and spits, turning with a 51 and alot more that many wouldn't dare do. did it just for fun and it was much more successful than i thought it would be :rofl

fun times go to the perk spenders that do it for that one moment of fun :aok landed the kills for the sortie too

everything i do is for fun. i've de-acked and landed at enemy bases, formation take offs with the enemy, bravely ran away from lancs....in a c47, then turned with them, as my ack shot the poop outta them......

 i might jump in on dichodogs idea of a jeep raid to take a vbase too.  :devil
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yenny on December 03, 2010, 12:33:22 PM
262 are killers if you know how to fly it. I'd probably wrack up 10+ kill per every 30 min sorty easy w/ that thing.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 03, 2010, 12:39:38 PM
I want folks to enjoy the game.  Why not give them what they want?  No cap, fly what you want, revert to old capture and reset methods and have at it.

First off, who is "THEY"?

"THEY" want no perked aircraft and no eny?  "THEY" want old capture and reset methods?

Just because a random tard cries about something doesn't mean the entire population of the war enthusiasts feels the same.  I think the vast majority of the players want a great balance between air combat, war strategy, and different choices on how to have fun.  That doesn't mean doing what you suggest.  Your idea is tongue in cheek, but it shows your lack of understanding on what makes for a happy cartoon world.

 It seems to me what you really want from this game is in furball lake.  No war, quick trips to the fight, constant furballing on the deck.  Maybe I'm wrong though?  If you enjoy defending bases, battling players that are trying to capture bases, hunting bombers, intercepting missions, stomping NOE's, etc, then you HAVE to have a war element to the game where the players engaging in that mode (and providing lots of fun for you as well) are immersed in what they are doing and can accomplish goals in a reasonable amount of the time with a reasonable amount of comrades, consistently.  Do you comprehend?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 03, 2010, 12:54:22 PM
First off, who is "THEY"?

"THEY" want no perked aircraft and no eny?  "THEY" want old capture and reset methods?

Just because a random tard cries about something doesn't mean the entire population of the war enthusiasts feels the same.  I think the vast majority of the players want a great balance between air combat, war strategy, and different choices on how to have fun.  That doesn't mean doing what you suggest.  Your idea is tongue in cheek, but it shows your lack of understanding on what makes for a happy cartoon world.

 It seems to me what you really want from this game is in furball lake.  No war, quick trips to the fight, constant furballing on the deck.  Maybe I'm wrong though?  If you enjoy defending bases, battling players that are trying to capture bases, hunting bombers, intercepting missions, stomping NOE's, etc, then you HAVE to have a war element to the game where the players engaging in that mode (and providing lots of fun for you as well) are immersed in what they are doing and can accomplish goals in a reasonable amount of the time with a reasonable amount of comrades, consistently.  Do you comprehend?

LOL well I'm glad you have such a better understanding.  You also keep bringing this back to what you think I want.  As I said, this isn't about me.  I'm fine.  Leave it as it is, change it all over the place, I'll still be here.

Seems to me I've been playing in this cartoon world as long if not longer then you Grizz, and I've managed to keep myself fairly content over the years.  I'm also fairly convinced that if I totally agreed with you, there is a good chance you'd disagree with me on that :)

So again, how does uncapping the arena, returning base capture to the earlier form and freeing up all the late war birds for use create a problem?  Does it not address the issues that seem to be most loudly complained about in AH?

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 03, 2010, 12:59:12 PM
Seems to me I've been playing in this cartoon world as long if not longer then you Grizz, and I've managed to keep myself fairly content over the years.  I'm also fairly convinced that if I totally agreed with you, there is a good chance you'd disagree with me on that :)

Maybe you have, I've played this game off and on since Tour 50 or so and I played Aw1 on Aol, AW2(beta) and AW3 on gamestorm. 

So again, how does uncapping the arena, returning base capture to the earlier form and freeing up all the late war birds for use create a problem?  Does it not address the issues that seem to be most loudly complained about in AH?

Corky, I don't have time to talk about your terrible idea anymore, I'll let someone else explain it to ya.   :aok
We need a batman light for Snailman.

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yenny on December 03, 2010, 01:05:54 PM
scrubs i played AW back when it was in dos! get w/ the program here!
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 03, 2010, 01:09:17 PM
scrubs i played AW back when it was in dos! get w/ the program here!

Sure you did...


ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Vinkman on December 03, 2010, 01:12:38 PM
Words can not express how bad this idea is, so I have a GIF.

This was my reaction after reading your post:

(http://img.izismile.com/img/img3/20101126/1000/friday_gif_collection_08.gif)

Kazaa, you a big Hermione fan?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Bruv119 on December 03, 2010, 01:13:02 PM
I fear snailman is hiding in his shell.   The mob were after him on 200 the other day.  He has after all ruined AH for the majority  :bolt:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Bruv119 on December 03, 2010, 01:15:22 PM
Kazaa, you a big Hermione fan?

I don't like what she has done with her hair.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 321BAR on December 03, 2010, 01:17:01 PM
Unperk Bullet Bill and make him the new N00k :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yeager on December 03, 2010, 01:24:32 PM
If anything you've been the one to convince me that I need to think outside my little world.
It is good to be open minded but I feel slightly compelled to advise you that if you have found fun in what you do then you have suceeded.
Always be it fun.   In my experience I have sacrificed some fun by understanding things through the experiences of others.  Be it self serving but I want MY FUN :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: JunkyII on December 03, 2010, 01:36:35 PM
No perk system is fine except for acouple of eny problems here and there
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Wiley on December 03, 2010, 02:04:49 PM
Just 'cause I'm bored, I'll play.

First off, there is always a 'They'.  On any given night, you can hear a constant stream of complaints on 200 that are polar opposites.  'I can't find a fight.'  vs 'There's nothing but hordes.'  'He hoed me.' vs 'He came in from behind and picked me.', and many other examples.  Someone will always be on about something, it is the nature of online gaming.

So again, how does uncapping the arena,

Just as many people if not more dislike TT if it happens more than once a week.  The few times I've seen it pour over too far into Wednesday have resulted in many complaints.

returning base capture to the earlier form

Meh.  It was too simplistic and stale.  The new one is perhaps a bit too complex, but I think the exact old way would be a step backward.

and freeing up all the late war birds for use create a problem?

Many, many people despise jets.  The performance differential between them and the prop stuff is just too great to have in the game unrestricted.  It would essentially force people into 'fly jet, or be fodder.'  That is no fun.  Most people are here for the prop planes, not the 262.

Does it not address the issues that seem to be most loudly complained about in AH?

Sure, it would just shift the focus of the complaints to the other side, and result in worse gameplay.

In short, 'terrible.'

Wiley.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 03, 2010, 02:08:35 PM

In short, 'terrible.'

Wiley.

I think that was the point Guppy was trying to make.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Lusche on December 03, 2010, 02:19:53 PM
I fear snailman is hiding in his shell.   The mob were after him on 200 the other day.

LOL... I do not take tripl5, the beacon of truth & noble conduct, that serious. Nor guys that come up with numbers made up on the spot like "we had 17,000(!) players per tour not long ago"  :lol

Even funnier was the notion Hitech had "carved in to my demands" and labeling me a furballer. Ahhh... If I only had that much power... oh the things that I would change!  :devil


Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Delirium on December 03, 2010, 02:29:32 PM
I think that was the point Guppy was trying to make.

ack-ack

Telling the fish to not bite the plastic worm ruins the fishing posibilities.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Rino on December 03, 2010, 02:52:09 PM
Sure you did...


ack-ack

     I must be getting old, I can't remember 1/4 of the guys who "flew in DOS".  I didn't think there were all
that many at the time.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: VonMessa on December 03, 2010, 03:01:57 PM
Everyone in 262's?

I love it  :x

I mean seriously, how effective do you think most players ARE in a 262 anyway?    :devil
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Foz on December 03, 2010, 03:06:54 PM
+10 to unperking all planes.

-1  to Grizz's (and other BB elitist) consistently condescending attitude towards corky's idea, any idea he/they don't like and his/their constant reference to unexperienced/unskilled game participants as "tards".

With the perk system as it stands it gives the skilled pilots a huge advantage because they easily can gain perkies to fly whatever perk plane they choose....leaving the unskilled at a large disadvantage not just due to lack of skill but also due to lack of comparable equipment.  Also, a big assumption made by the regular BB lords is that everyone will eventually, with enough practice, reach their skill level......that viewpoint is simply not true.

Unperking all planes would in the short term cause the MA to be filled with jets.....however that would quickly stabilize with many fewer jet sorties once the newness wore off (once people figure out there not as easy to fly or uber as they might think).  

The one thing great about this game, and the reason many are still here, is the variety of vehicles/planes one can experience.  I just don't see how allowing everyone on all sides free access to all planes would be unbalancing......as it is now with the elites able to get the best planes, that is more unbalancing I believe.

If the goal is to gain and retain new players, handicapping their choice of equipment when it would be most beneficial seems odd to me.

 If an equipment limiting system is necessary it would make more sense to limit the most skilled players to the worst equipment....maybe a reverse perky system is in order if there must be a system.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: VonMessa on December 03, 2010, 03:08:38 PM
Tongue-in-cheek has been lost in translation methinks...
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: pluck on December 03, 2010, 04:52:02 PM
I'm not sold.  Mainly because of the fact that some of us have perks to spend, what would we spend them on?  Solution- nooks.  Not just nukes for bombers, but nukes for tempests as well.  I think this might help eliminate hordes as you don't need as much ord, but it will maintain the need to kill incoming nme aircraft.  For balancing reasons, the fallout may kill troops at random.  However, maybe c47 pilots could purchase radiation suits?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: cactuskooler on December 03, 2010, 04:57:33 PM
I'm not sold.  Mainly because of the fact that some of us have perks to spend, what would we spend them on?  Solution- nooks.  Not just nukes for bombers, but nukes for tempests as well.  I think this might help eliminate hordes as you don't need as much ord, but it will maintain the need to kill incoming nme aircraft.  For balancing reasons, the fallout may kill troops at random.  However, maybe c47 pilots could purchase radiation suits?

+1
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SunBat on December 03, 2010, 05:14:55 PM

 If an equipment limiting system is necessary it would make more sense to limit the most skilled players to the worst equipment....maybe a reverse perky system is in order if there must be a system.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Tax the rich and give to the poor! What a great idea.  :rolleyes:

Edit:  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: crazyivan on December 03, 2010, 05:25:44 PM
+10 to unperking all planes.


If the goal is to gain and retain new players, handicapping their choice of equipment when it would be most beneficial seems odd to me.

What are we saying here, you would rather have a game be easy with zero learning curve? How would this keep my attention?

lol 262 hordes would be fun for awhile but seriously. Some of the older members enjoy flying high eny planes into fights also. Not all are 262 dweebs. :rolleyes:  I find it much more interesting flying a p40 into a furball  and seeing how long I last. But hey I earned the perks so I'll do what I want mmkay. :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 03, 2010, 05:30:11 PM
Yes! Yes! Yes! Tax the rich and give to the poor! What a great idea.  :rolleyes:

Edit:  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe there could be a perks donation center for folks instead.  Those of us who don't fly jets or perk rides could give up our perks.  Keep in mind this is about trying to help the new folks feel some success sooner.  If things are too difficult, they tend to want to give up.  We don't want to lose the player base.

New folks could apply to HTC for a certain amount of free perks that were donated.  Think of it as similar to a "Toys for Tots" campaign.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 03, 2010, 05:35:16 PM
What are we saying here, you would rather have a game be easy with zero learning curve? How would this keep my attention?

You've got to think of the bigger picture here.  This is about long term growth of the game, not just pleasing a few folks who've stuck with it long enough to work their way up the learning curve.  Folks are leaving in droves because it's gotten too hard.  They want to fly with their buddies.  They want to be able to see progress in taking bases and resetting maps, and they want to fly what they want to fly.

For the sake of more paying customers we need to listen to these folks or the game will die.

The old timers need to get with the trend or go to the DA.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 2bighorn on December 03, 2010, 05:41:23 PM
New folks could apply to HTC for a certain amount of free perks that were donated.  Think of it as similar to a "Toys for Tots" campaign.

Keep charity for RL.
I want O'Club bar/casino where I can spend perks on gambling and other exciting things.

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 2bighorn on December 03, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
because it's gotten too hard.

What is really so hard in this game?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Tordon22 on December 03, 2010, 05:45:11 PM
What is really so hard in this game?

Shooting me down, you ought to know that by now.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Foz on December 03, 2010, 05:48:08 PM
Quote
Quote from: Foz on Today at 03:06:54 PM
+10 to unperking all planes.
If the goal is to gain and retain new players, handicapping their choice of equipment when it would be most beneficial seems odd to me.
What are we saying here, you would rather have a game be easy with zero learning curve? How would this keep my attention?

lol 262 hordes would be fun for awhile but seriously. Some of the older members enjoy flying high eny into fights also. Not all are 262 dweebs. :rolleyes:  I find it much more interesting flying a p40 into a furball  and seeing how long I last. But hey I earned the perks so I'll do what I want mmkay. :aok

How would unperking all planes reduce the learning curve to zero?

I don't believe there would be hordes of 262's for more than a couple of weeks till the new system settled in......I would still fly a wide variety of planes just as I do now...

Simply unperking all planes would not restrict you from flying any plane you want.  You could still fly your p40 into a furball.

You who are using the derogatory smiley faces are proving my point about the BB elitism.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 2bighorn on December 03, 2010, 05:48:15 PM
With the perk system as it stands it gives the skilled pilots a huge advantage because they easily can gain perkies to fly whatever perk plane they choose....leaving the unskilled at a large disadvantage not just due to lack of skill but also due to lack of comparable equipment.  Also, a big assumption made by the regular BB lords is that everyone will eventually, with enough practice, reach their skill level......that viewpoint is simply not true.

Unperking all planes would in the short term cause the MA to be filled with jets.....however that would quickly stabilize with many fewer jet sorties once the newness wore off (once people figure out there not as easy to fly or uber as they might think).

If you want virtual communism, fine, but be aware you'll get to fly commie planes only. Like FOREVER!
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 2bighorn on December 03, 2010, 05:50:44 PM
Shooting me down, you ought to know that by now.

Got cat allergy
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: crazyivan on December 03, 2010, 05:53:04 PM
Folks are leaving in droves because it's gotten too hard.  They want to fly with their buddies.  
For the sake of more paying customers we need to listen to these folks or the game will die.

This to me could be the result of something else your statment describes. :D The new cap watermelon has disrupted my game time! I'm sure i'm not alone. :noid
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Foz on December 03, 2010, 05:56:01 PM
If you want virtual communism, fine, but be aware you'll get to fly commie planes only. Like FOREVER!

I realize this is a joke, but...

How is giving everyone who is paying the same amount for the same plane access communism?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 2bighorn on December 03, 2010, 06:09:40 PM
How is giving everyone who is paying the same amount for the same plane access communism?

I paid ticket to see some comedy last time (paid same amount as all others), but I didn't get the jokes. I request the jokes to be dumbed down so I can get it too.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 03, 2010, 06:22:10 PM
What is really so hard in this game?

Haven't you been reading the last dozen threads posted in the last week or so?  Apparently everything has gotten to be too difficult for the masses.


And anything else that takes a mediocre amount of skill.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Foz on December 03, 2010, 06:50:21 PM
I paid ticket to see some comedy last time (paid same amount as all others), but I didn't get the jokes. I request the jokes to be dumbed down so I can get it too.

More BB elitism
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Foz on December 03, 2010, 06:50:53 PM


And anything else that takes a mediocre amount of skill.

ack-ack

More BB elitism
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 03, 2010, 06:54:09 PM
^^ More bbs ineptitude ^^
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Foz on December 03, 2010, 06:58:06 PM
At least your consistent grizz.

I don't believe you ever explained why unperking would be so bad
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 03, 2010, 06:58:57 PM
At least your consistent grizz.

I don't believe you ever explained why unperking would be so bad

It's self explanatory.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 03, 2010, 07:00:50 PM
More BB elitism

I think your fellow commies would refer to us as the "bourgeoisie".

ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Foz on December 03, 2010, 07:06:32 PM
Anyone going to explain how unperking planes = communism?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Tordon22 on December 03, 2010, 07:22:39 PM
Anyone going to explain how unperking planes = communism?

I like you.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yenny on December 03, 2010, 07:25:30 PM
Sure you did...


ack-ack
lol you're right I didn't, was just jokin but I did started AW back in AOL, then went to AW1 in GS, then 2, then 3, last AH.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SunBat on December 03, 2010, 07:42:20 PM
Edit:   :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 03, 2010, 08:15:53 PM
Just saying it would be bad, and rolling eyes isn't much of a discussion.

I feel like the one hold out juror in 12 Angry Men.

I want to hear your arguments. :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 03, 2010, 08:33:40 PM
This to me could be the result of something else your statment describes. :D The new cap watermelon has disrupted my game time! I'm sure i'm not alone. :noid

Thats part of the plan.  Un cap it, un perk it and roll back the base capture settings.  With three other basically empty arenas plus the DA for the 'furballers', why not make the MA more user friendly for the base capture folks.

I can believe the furballers are that worried about perk planes
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Spikes on December 03, 2010, 08:56:41 PM
Yes, everything is too hard to do these days but in that map the bish only had 3 bases.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 2bighorn on December 03, 2010, 09:02:10 PM
why not make the MA more user friendly for the base capture folks.

Why not make planes more 'flyers' friendly too, while we are at it?

Like unlimited fuel and ammo, 'no' cockpit view, air start, only single type plane (fairness). Ban those who win the fight for at least two weeks (balanced play for less fortunate).

Base capture folks? They should get each their own base to take (undefended). All play shall be offline so nobody disrupt others.

I'm sure I forgot a lot, so help me out here, Guppy. I know you have many great ideas.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 03, 2010, 09:05:13 PM
Why not make planes more 'flyers' friendly too, while we are at it?

Like unlimited fuel and ammo, 'no' cockpit view, air start, only single type plane (fairness). Ban those who win the fight for at least two weeks (balanced play for less fortunate).

Base capture folks? They should get each their own base to take (undefended). All play shall be offline so nobody disrupt others.

I'm sure I forgot a lot, so help me out here, Guppy. I know you have many great ideas.

Considering that's what the majority wants, I think you made a pretty good list of features the masses will be happy to see included in the game.  Though, I would add some stuff like quad power ups to make it more appealing to the masses.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 2bighorn on December 03, 2010, 09:08:21 PM
Sounds great.

Think HiTech got to look for flash as their next development platform. All play could be web based. On Facebook of course.

Ah yeah, and iPhone app, pretty please...
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 03, 2010, 09:31:40 PM
i don't know which part of this thread is more confussing to me......

the fact that Guppy is actually throwing his hat in with those who are to lazy to learn the skillz to earn the killz to make the points to fly the uber rides......

or that ACK-ACK and the Muppet's are actually agreeing on a topic in a public forum.......

OK who is paying who to say what to whom here?!?!?!

Are the tardlings paying off Guppy........or is ACK-ACK paying off the Muppet's or vice-versa???????

or is it some of BOTH SENARIOS?????????????

to hell with it!!! here all can now be happy!!!!!!


(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kuqxzaUoCE1qzetnu.gif)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: uptown on December 03, 2010, 09:40:41 PM
I can't believe this made 7 pages.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 321BAR on December 03, 2010, 10:16:26 PM
I can't believe this made 7 pages.  :rolleyes:
i cant believe it's about to make 8 :rofl
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 03, 2010, 10:17:06 PM

Forgot another feature...convert the perks to XP points so we can level up.  Oh, and every other level we can earn special abilities we can use, like stun or super boost that increases speed by 5% for five minutes.  We can turn AH into the WoW of flight sims.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: crazyivan on December 03, 2010, 11:58:32 PM
Forgot another feature...convert the perks to XP points so we can level up.  Oh, and every other level we can earn special abilities we can use, like stun or super boost that increases speed by 5% for five minutes.  We can turn AH into the WoW of flight sims.

ack-ack
RPG  here we come. I think  it would be cool also to have flight crews that could fix damaged planes. Love the xp level up.Maybe if we get to level 10 in the same sortie we could catch on fire and auto aim would be enabled. :pray Guppy, stop hanging around Sunbat! I see :noid people.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 04, 2010, 12:03:35 AM
If everybody was in 262's........ I'd be farming all day long!!!

+1

Move this to Wishlist, it's good!!!






I was about to add a photo of my Mossie, which I will still do but.......
(http://www.flightglobal.com/imagearchive/Galleries/Photo%20Archive/1939-1945/images/FA_18416s.jpg)
Why do the English wear ties to war?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 04, 2010, 12:59:41 AM
I realize this is a joke, but...

How is giving everyone who is paying the same amount for the same plane access communism?

HiTech could just do away with the game all together and just give us perks for our monthly payments...... awesome idea foz  :aok  :aok

He could setup some kind of marketing with other businesses. Say we could get a coffee at Starbucks for 5 perks...... a sandwich at Subway for 8 perks. Wow this is a great idea.

We'd even have more time to visit those businesses since we are not playing a game to get perks.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 04, 2010, 01:02:59 AM
Why do the English wear ties to war?

So everyone would look at their ties instead of what they are doing with their hands.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: BillyD on December 04, 2010, 01:41:25 AM
IT TAKES SUM SKILL TO DO FOLLOWING
<-------note TEH or more l33t t3h

PERSONALLY I THINK WE SHOULD START T3H SYSTEM LIKE CALL OF DOOODY WHERE WHEN I GET 25 KILLS I GET NOOK,

BIRRYDEE420 LOAD OUT

BF109, ACOG, EXDENDED MAGS

LIGHTWEIGHT
NINJA
MARATHON

HARRIER
CHOPPERGUNN3R
NOOK

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: BillyD on December 04, 2010, 01:50:52 AM
Oh yeah and this



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K1Cwkp-rfI
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: TW9 on December 04, 2010, 05:10:40 AM
I'd have tried to be a little more subtle if I was trolling SunBat. Gotta give me a little bit of credit :)

Folks hate ENY, hate, not flying what they want, claim that it's 'war' and that 'anything goes'.  How does giving folks what they claim to want, become a bad idea?

BTW I'd include uncapping the arena too as I believe that 'minority' of 'furballers' would soon disappear or migrate to midwar.

most folks dont hate eny. just the chess piece humping noobs that would rather stay with the horde instead of evening out the sides do. if you dont like eny so much then quit trying to "tweak" the game and "tweak" yourself instead.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Stang on December 04, 2010, 09:51:18 AM
Dan trolling?

Please, even if he chose to (doubt he would) he'd probably be as good at it as he is keeping P-38's in one piece.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: crazierthanu on December 04, 2010, 10:29:54 AM
Why dont you just make 262's unusable in the MA's?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 04, 2010, 11:56:35 AM
That wouldn't make sense from the business perspective. 

Why dont you just make 262's unusable in the MA's?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: mtnman on December 04, 2010, 12:05:02 PM

With the perk system as it stands it gives the skilled pilots a huge advantage because they easily can gain perkies to fly whatever perk plane they choose....leaving the unskilled at a large disadvantage not just due to lack of skill but also due to lack of comparable equipment.  Also, a big assumption made by the regular BB lords is that everyone will eventually, with enough practice, reach their skill level......that viewpoint is simply not true.

If the goal is to gain and retain new players, handicapping their choice of equipment when it would be most beneficial seems odd to me.

 If an equipment limiting system is necessary it would make more sense to limit the most skilled players to the worst equipment....maybe a reverse perky system is in order if there must be a system.

The perk system isn't about limiting players, it's about balancing the game.  The perk system doesn't keep new players from using great planes.  Many of the "best" planes in the game are free.  LA7, Spit16, P47's, P51, 109's, F4U's, Brewsters (:^)) etc.

The perk system isn't perfect, but it's better than nothing.

Un-perking the plane set would really only skew the game away from the "WWII flavor" it currently has, and was built around.  It wouldn't make the game any better, or any easier, or any easier on new players.  A newbie in the best plane in the game (whatever that may be) is still dead against a veteran pilot, unless he stays far away, gets lucky, or has a lot of buddies to keep his opponent.

A "balanced variety" is what draws players, and retains players.  There's something available for everyone, and the game "flavor" is still there.  

In the past, when the "balance" or the "variety" has been reduced, the players as a whole have lost interest.  I'll point out the Mid-War, AvA, WWI, and DA arenas as evidence...  What are the numbers like for those arenas compared to the current Late War arenas?  Which one/ones already have what it takes to draw/retain players?  Which ones aren't what the majority want?  Which ones are only good enough to kill a little time in once in a while?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 04, 2010, 12:13:15 PM
That wouldn't make sense from the grizzness perspective. 


Fixed :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: mensa180 on December 04, 2010, 12:15:42 PM
Terrible idea.  I like the notion of having something to spend perks on, and I also don't like the idea of not having an arena where I could fly late war planes without being harassed by jets.  I don't think you should try to 'fix' the game by using jets as a deterrent to play in a certain arena.  If midwar is to gain more people it should be on it's own merits, rather than the spoiling of latewars.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Rino on December 04, 2010, 12:47:40 PM
     I think one of the best jet experiences I ever had was in an AW scenario under Guppy <Tiff at the time> flying F-51s
for the 18th FBG in Korea.  Nothing made me giggle more than flat turning low alt Ponies and watching Mig-15s come
roaring in to tie the low altitude record  :rofl
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: oTRALFZo on December 04, 2010, 03:28:58 PM
Guppy gets a extra big cookie for making his point and give him a A for originality.

Its like managing people at work. Sure you can give them what they want, but unless you throw the hammer down at any point, you are going to end up with a crew that insists on taking a 8 hour break each day.

Quality control: you may not like it, but its there for a reason. If you are unselfish enough and care about the enviroment as a whole rather than your personal goals, then you "get it", have no problems with it and just go with the flow. Those that piss, whine and moan arent worth having anyway
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 04, 2010, 04:07:09 PM
Guppy gets a extra big cookie for making his point and give him a A for originality.


How is removing the aircraft balancing system an original idea? 
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: oTRALFZo on December 04, 2010, 04:45:29 PM
How is removing the aircraft balancing system an original idea? 

I highly doubt this is his true intention.
The point is that people's natural reaction is that they want to do what they want to do, when they want to do it. In game, they want to NOE and have NO resistance when they attack in hordes. They want their spixteen even though they outnumber the other guy by 2 to 1. They want to reset the map by hording one country first and expecting them not to retaliate while they hording the other.

Id love to land one kill per cannon round I had, but know thats probably not going to happen. No reason they should make it easier for me to reach that goal and no reason for me to whine or threaten to quit just because the game is not fun if I cant reach it.

Have everything we "want" like guppy stated and imagine what kind of enviroment we would be in.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 04, 2010, 04:47:32 PM
I highly doubt this is his true intention.
The point is that people's natural reaction is that they want to do what they want to do, when they want to do it. In game, they want to NOE and have NO resistance when they attack in hordes. They want their spixteen even though they outnumber the other guy by 2 to 1. They want to reset the map by hording one country first and expecting them not to retaliate while they hording the other.

Id love to land one kill per cannon round I had, but know thats probably not going to happen. No reason they should make it easier for me to reach that goal and no reason for me to whine or threaten to quit just because the game is not fun if I cant reach it.

Have everything we "want" like guppy stated and imagine what kind of enviroment we would be in.


Thank you.  I didn't think it would be that hard to understand!
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 04, 2010, 04:55:12 PM
Where does balance come into the picture?  If we look at two extreme cases, say a town that requires you to shoot one building down and one troop to capture.  And then the ultimate extreme where you have a town with 1000 buildings that only stay down for a minute a piece and require 100 troops to capture.  Clearly the correct balance that makes for optimum gameplay is somewhere in between yes?  So ignoring those ridiculous extremes now, isn't it entirely reasonable to suggest that the new town updates, lower radar levels, have inadvertently shifted the balance of the game outside of its ideal range?  Turn off your palaverin fingers for a minute to consider this.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 04, 2010, 05:10:51 PM
Where does balance come into the picture?  If we look at two extreme cases, say a town that requires you to shoot one building down and one troop to capture.  And then the ultimate extreme where you have a town with 1000 buildings that only stay down for a minute a piece and require 100 troops to capture.  Clearly the correct balance that makes for optimum gameplay is somewhere in between yes?  So ignoring those ridiculous extremes now, isn't it entirely reasonable to suggest that the new town updates, lower radar levels, have inadvertently shifted the balance of the game outside of its ideal range?  Turn off your palaverin fingers for a minute to consider this.

So if I believe the learning curve for ACM is unfair because vets with perks can have 262s and discourage the newbs who can't, it's a bad thing?  How is that balanced any more then expecting folks who want to take towns to adapt and work up the learning curve?

And if in the end, I reach the point where I say let em have everything, then it's time to set limits?  Maybe the best way to figure that out for folks is to give them a shot at what they claim to want.  Kinda like raising kids.  They'll be begging for limits sooner then later once they don't have them.

As I said I'm going to have fun regardless.  I'd suggest a step down from that high horse and give a few of us some credit for thinking too. :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: oTRALFZo on December 04, 2010, 05:12:52 PM
Where does balance come into the picture?  If we look at two extreme cases, say a town that requires you to shoot one building down and one troop to capture.  And then the ultimate extreme where you have a town with 1000 buildings that only stay down for a minute a piece and require 100 troops to capture.  Clearly the correct balance that makes for optimum gameplay is somewhere in between yes?  So ignoring those ridiculous extremes now, isn't it entirely reasonable to suggest that the new town updates, lower radar levels, have inadvertently shifted the balance of the game outside of its ideal range?  Turn off your palaverin fingers for a minute to consider this.
Only reason people think its so hard is because its so new. I wasnt around with the old town layouts when they had no ack guns, but I heard there were tons of rants back in the day they put 8 lousy guns in town. When I joined the game, if I wanted a capture I always had to deal with those 8 guns. It was what I accepted.
Im sure tons of people quit once the ENY system was put in place. Given time, we accpeted it and IMO..its a GREAT system.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 04, 2010, 05:29:11 PM
So if I believe the learning curve for ACM is unfair because vets with perks can have 262s and discourage the newbs who can't, it's a bad thing?  How is that balanced any more then expecting folks who want to take towns to adapt and work up the learning curve?

Easy, because jets cost 200 dang perks.  If all someone did was fly jets then they wouldn't have any perks.  The only players that actually make an impact in game balance in jets are muppets, and we realize that.  We also typically only fly them against mega hordes, unless we are really in a jet mood :)

And if in the end, I reach the point where I say let em have everything, then it's time to set limits?  Maybe the best way to figure that out for folks is to give them a shot at what they claim to want.  Kinda like raising kids.  They'll be begging for limits sooner then later once they don't have them.

How does unperking jets and temps help the win the war crowd achieve their goals if everyone else has more temps and more jets to defend against it?  


Maybe the best way to figure that out for folks is to give them a shot at what they claim to want.

"They" want free temps and jets?  Link please.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 04, 2010, 06:57:30 PM
Grizz, you are always telling me I don't get it.  I'm afraid this is one of those times where you aren't.

If you don't recall the we want to fly what we want to fly threads, you've not been around as long as I thought.

Let me try and explain it again.

I work with 'troubled teens'.  I have for the last 25+ years.  I have yet to run into a kid that didn't know better how the program we run should work then we do.  This should change or that should change.  Not that the program hasn't been in place for a long time and well thought out of course. 

Every so often when the complaints reach a certain level, I'll stop and say 'ok, you win".  You design it.  Tell me how it should work.  Naturally there are no limits.  Everyone can do whatever they want without rules.  But then you start questioning it, and they can't explain why.  They just want what they want.  By the time you get done with the discussion, they're 'program' is far more difficult then ours.  Because they don't factor in the realities of running a program, they have all the answers.

The ironic part about this, was none of those wanting everything, bit.  You and some others that should know better, did. 

Bottom line is I had this strange idea that I thought would be something to see.  Set up two arenas, one the way it is, and one with everything cut loose.  I thought it would be interesting to see who would end up where and if in fact folks would end up in the arena where there were limits in the end.

Do I expect it to happen? No.  But it was a fun thought just to see how people would react.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 04, 2010, 11:28:16 PM
Grizz, you are always telling me I don't get it.  I'm afraid this is one of those times where you aren't.

If you don't recall the we want to fly what we want to fly threads, you've not been around as long as I thought.

Let me try and explain it again.

I work with 'troubled teens'.  I have for the last 25+ years.  I have yet to run into a kid that didn't know better how the program we run should work then we do.  This should change or that should change.  Not that the program hasn't been in place for a long time and well thought out of course. 

Ok, using your own analogy then.  The "program" HAS changed.  It has not been around for a long time like you infer, in fact this imbalance started only a few months ago.

Every so often when the complaints reach a certain level, I'll stop and say 'ok, you win".  You design it.  Tell me how it should work.  Naturally there are no limits.  Everyone can do whatever they want without rules.  But then you start questioning it, and they can't explain why.  They just want what they want.  By the time you get done with the discussion, they're 'program' is far more difficult then ours.  Because they don't factor in the realities of running a program, they have all the answers.

Oh believe me, when I actually give myself a little bit of time to sit down and think about things and organize my thoughts, I will come up with solutions to the balance problem that also include many improvements.  And believe me, my solution won't be simply unperking the entire plane set, creating another arena and 'letting the people choose'.   :lol

Do I expect it to happen? No.  But it was a fun thought just to see how people would react.

I don't expect it to happen either.  It is a terrible idea and HiTech does not implement terrible ideas.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 04, 2010, 11:39:50 PM
LOL you still miss the point.  Well only one of us can be right all the time :aok

And you gotta relax Grizz.  You are gonna get a heachache taking this stuff so seriously.  Coulda swore you were telling me to lighten up not too long ago?   ;)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 04, 2010, 11:56:28 PM
LOL you still miss the point.  Well only one of us can be right all the time :aok

Yep, me.

Here's some emoticons to lighten up the convo.   :lol :O :rock :angel: :cheers:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 05, 2010, 12:01:40 AM
Where's SunBat when we need em? :huh
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Closer on December 05, 2010, 06:23:25 PM
Foz,
 It's hard to reason with kids, non-heterosexuals and girls.
The adults are leaving the building one by one, then it will be all theirs, which allot of us think is the establishments goal. 
 It is ashame that people that are nobody, I mean nobody, in the real world think they should try to influence anybody in this game.    :cheers:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shifty on December 05, 2010, 07:04:23 PM
     I must be getting old, I can't remember 1/4 of the guys who "flew in DOS".  I didn't think there were all
that many at the time.

I'd forgotten my old game id from the old DOS Kesami days a few years ago and ran across a scrap of paper I'd written it down on while I was going through some old books.
I can't believe what I paid to play that game once a week for an hour or two. I had to pay long distance charges at the time while I was stationed in Valdosta GA in pre internet days.
None of the guys I used to fly with are around as far as I know.Drum, SEeagle, and Totenkopf. Sheesh it won't be long now until that was 20 years ago...  :confused:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 05, 2010, 07:46:08 PM
Anyone going to explain how unperking planes = communism?

Quote
Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a stateless and classless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate

How's that?

Forgot another feature...convert the perks to XP points so we can level up.  Oh, and every other level we can earn special abilities we can use, like stun or super boost that increases speed by 5% for five minutes.  We can turn AH into the WoW of flight sims.

ack-ack

Speaking of WoW and the like, HiTech could sell perks.  Officially only.  Added income.

I was about to add a photo of my Mossie, which I will still do but.......
(http://www.flightglobal.com/imagearchive/Galleries/Photo%20Archive/1939-1945/images/FA_18416s.jpg)
Why do the English wear ties to war?

Because they're gentlemen.

"They" want free temps and jets?  Link please.

Wishlist:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,301411.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,301411.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,301244.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,301244.0.html)

even bombers:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,301281.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,301281.0.html)



wrongway
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 06, 2010, 01:37:56 PM
Hey 80th, go to the DA.

 :rofl
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Crash Orange on December 06, 2010, 02:48:18 PM
Bottom line is I had this strange idea that I thought would be something to see.  Set up two arenas, one the way it is, and one with everything cut loose. 

Perhaps this is the problem with your perspective. Paying customers at a business != "troubled teens" committed to a program, and treating them like they are would be incredibly foolish. No business that treats its paying customers that way would stay in business very long.

Bottom line is I had this strange idea that I thought would be something to see.  Set up two arenas, one the way it is, and one with everything cut loose. 

And you win the award for the most ridiculous straw man posted on the forums this year.

Just because you can come up with an absolutely idiotic idea for an arena that you know everyone would hate, does not mean that any suggestion for changing the current system is invalid.

No one - NO ONE - has requested or proposed the changes you suggest. No one would go to the arena you propose, because it is nothing like what they have actually requested or proposed. Pretending that the changes people have actually proposed or suggested are the same as the purposely idiotic one you've raised here does nothing but add noise to an already inane discussion.

Should the NFL require 30 yards instead of 10 for a first down? Would such a change promote more exciting games by forcing the players to develop better skills?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 06, 2010, 03:02:03 PM
Perhaps this is the problem with your perspective. Paying customers at a business != "troubled teens" committed to a program, and treating them like they are would be incredibly foolish. No business that treats its paying customers that way would stay in business very long.

And you win the award for the most ridiculous straw man posted on the forums this year.

Just because you can come up with an absolutely idiotic idea for an arena that you know everyone would hate, does not mean that any suggestion for changing the current system is invalid.

No one - NO ONE - has requested or proposed the changes you suggest. No one would go to the arena you propose, because it is nothing like what they have actually requested or proposed. Pretending that the changes people have actually proposed or suggested are the same as the purposely idiotic one you've raised here does nothing but add noise to an already inane discussion.

Should the NFL require 30 yards instead of 10 for a first down? Would such a change promote more exciting games by forcing the players to develop better skills?


Hmm looks like that covers most of the complaints this past year. One arena with no holds barred. One arena set just as they are now. Wait and see where most folks end up.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 06, 2010, 03:05:15 PM
I could at least respect you guys if you argued that the game is balanced now.  But your complete neglect for the concept of balance is what is really riduculous.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Crash Orange on December 06, 2010, 03:06:30 PM
Hmm looks like that covers most of the complaints this past year.

It "covers" them with a deliberately idiotic and unworkable solution that isn't what anyone has asked for. In other words, it doesn't cover them at all.

No one. No one. No one. has said that the problem with AH is that they can't fly 262s whenever they want without paying perks. No one.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 06, 2010, 03:10:56 PM
Yup looks like the complainers just complain to complain.... lol.


Being not happy makes them happy.


HiTech has to deal with this in a business sense. After reading this thread folks should be able to see what he deals with on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: perdue3 on December 06, 2010, 03:11:09 PM
No K-4 in mid war :(

Hell no.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Crash Orange on December 06, 2010, 03:40:08 PM
I could at least respect you guys if you argued that the game is balanced now.  But your complete neglect for the concept of balance is what is really riduculous.

+ 1000

They're only "discussing" by deliberately misunderstanding and misstating what the other side is saying.

***

In NFL and NCAA football, it takes 10 yards to get a first down. If you made it 30 yards, the game would be terrible. All games would be 3-0 "defensive struggles" in which 9 out of 10 series would be three and outs. This is not because quarterbacks suck or receivers are whiners or running backs have no 733t skillz, it is because in a game which balances skilled offensive players against equally skilled defensive players, the rules must create an arbitrary and artificial balance by making the goal for the offense something that is reasonably achievable, but not so easy that it's impossible for the defense to prevent. Given equally skilled offensive and defensive players, it will be relatively rare for the offense to gain 30 yards in 3 plays consistently enough to move the ball downfield and score touchdowns.

Likewise, given equally skilled offensive and defensive players, it would be so easy to move 5 yards in three plays that it would happen every series and no one would ever have to punt or try a field goal, there'd be a touchdown every time.

10 yards strikes a good balance and makes for good gameplay.

What a lot of us have been saying is that the base-taking aspect of AH has gotten out of balance. It takes 30 yards to get a first down, therefore first downs are rare and no one ever scores a touchdown. This isn't because the offense sucks - after all, 90% of the people who care about base-taking and war-winning play both defense and offense in this game - it's because the arbitrary balance created by the game is out of whack. Given equally skilled play by offense and defense, the defense will usually win. It's not impossible to take bases, but it's difficult enough that no one can take enough in a short enough amount of time to win the map. There are no reasonably achievable strategic goals.

(The exception being the situation we saw earlier in SFMA, where two sides ignore each other and gang up on the third for an unusually extended period, but then of course you can't win the war that way either, as we've seen, all you can do is create an incredibly lopsided game.)

A bunch of people on thse forums read that, and somehow translate it to "I suck and haz no skillz and this game is 2 hard." Which is not remotely what is being said.

I think the root of the problem here is what grizz has identified: some of the "furballers" here don't care about that balance and don't even recognize its existence or the validity of the concept, because they despise the entire base taking/strategic aspect of the game. What they wan't isn't for base taking to be appropriately difficult, it's for base taking to be infinitely difficult, so that no one bothers with it and everyone plays the way they want, which is to mindlessly furball with no strategic goal in mind. Why should anyone ever want to end a perfectly good fight by taking the base?

That is, of course, not what HTC are trying to achieve - they are trying to make it appropriately difficult and strike a proper balance. The criticism is that they are in error and what we have now isn't a proper balance, it's an endless 3-0 "defensive struggle" (complete with massive hordes since that's the only remaining practical way to take defended bases). Their changes have not produced the results they intended.

And what unperked 262s have to do with any of this, I can't imagine. It's just something deliberately stupid that has been tossed out to derail the discussion. Guppy is trying to make the people he disagrees with look ridiculous and stupid, by saying something he knows is ridiculous and stupid and pretending it's what they're saying when it is perfectly obvious that it isn't.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Rino on December 06, 2010, 03:47:57 PM
I'd forgotten my old game id from the old DOS Kesami days a few years ago and ran across a scrap of paper I'd written it down on while I was going through some old books.
I can't believe what I paid to play that game once a week for an hour or two. I had to pay long distance charges at the time while I was stationed in Valdosta GA in pre internet days.
None of the guys I used to fly with are around as far as I know.Drum, SEeagle, and Totenkopf. Sheesh it won't be long now until that was 20 years ago...  :confused:

     Actually you are one of the guys I think I can remember  :D  I can also feel your pain because I was based at Moody
during the early 80s.  I had a cruddy old Atari computer and modem that apparently did not hang up when I did.  So one
month in 1983 I got a $1,000 bill from AT&T and a $2500 from Compupuke. 

     I was able to get AT&T to drop alot of the charges when the bill showed simultaneous calls from the same number
to the same number, but the expletive-deleted's at Compuserve charged me the full amount.  Rough when you were
only grossing $12K a year. 

     Other than that, Moody was ok  :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Rino on December 06, 2010, 03:51:14 PM
     I notice alot more drama coming from the landgrabbers.  Unless you are screwing up the furballs, the air to air
guys don't seem to give much of a toss.  

     Also, could someone remove the hook from vLoki before he has a stroke or something  :lol
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: oTRALFZo on December 06, 2010, 04:32:28 PM
I think the root of the problem here is what grizz has identified: some of the "furballers" here don't care about that balance and don't even recognize its existence or the validity of the concept, because they despise the entire base taking/strategic aspect of the game.

First off, I must call you out and say that is the most ignoramous statement Ive heard so far. Furballer/landgrabber/milker/porker..whatever are in TOTAL agreement that the providing the base taking element is a crucial dynamic to the game.
Without it, would make for a very boring game. No reason to fly into enemy territory, no reason to pork, no reason to GV other than just to land kills and get your name in lights.
The whole base-taking premise is there for 2 countries to duke it out and have the victor win.  In other words, give a sporting chance, use skill and strategy instead of sneakiness. You'll get a lot more <S> and respect that way.

Most consider the old way to be unbalanced. Too easy to smash grab, so consider the revisions that are more challenging to counter it.

Too many whines and too many egos are shattered because of lack of patience. The base take is still there for you to play, but as there is a huge learning curve to be a fighter in this game..now accept that its in base-taking
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 06, 2010, 04:35:21 PM
First off, I must call you out and say that is the most ignoramous statement Ive heard so far. Furballer/landgrabber/milker/porker..whatever are in TOTAL agreement that the providing the base taking element is a crucial dynamic to the game.


You must have corky and shuffler on bbs ignore then because they are completely ignorant to this point you make.  :lol
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Lusche on December 06, 2010, 04:38:31 PM
Furballer/landgrabber/milker/porker..whatever are in TOTAL agreement that the providing the base taking element is a crucial dynamic to the game.

You must read a different BBS and play a different game than me...  :confused:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FiLtH on December 06, 2010, 04:39:50 PM
 Late war would become another DA lake with most in Temps or 262s.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 06, 2010, 05:01:43 PM
Late war would become another DA lake with most in Temps or 262s.

Just in one arena. The other arena will be the same as it is now. That way the folks who like the way it is now can fly in their arena..... the folks who think it is too hard, too perked, too whatever can fly in their arena.

The wide open arena would be doomed IMHO but folks will go there initially thinking that is what they want.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: ink on December 06, 2010, 05:14:20 PM
wish I could quote......this particular player would LOVE for the ''war'' aspect of this game to be gone.......an all gv arena.....sonds awesome..........I think the war in AH is lame at best........someone said the game is about taking fields.........WRONG the game is about combat......Aces High........not aces low.........it aint about the war and i dont give a ...... how many people come in here and say it is.   im done.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 06, 2010, 05:30:17 PM
wish I could quote......this particular player would LOVE for the ''war'' aspect of this game to be gone.......an all gv arena.....sonds awesome..........I think the war in AH is lame at best........someone said the game is about taking fields.........WRONG the game is about combat......Aces High........not aces low.........it aint about the war and i dont give a ...... how many people come in here and say it is.   im done.

Careful Ink, Grizz will be after ya for that one.  Trust me, I know :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 06, 2010, 05:36:16 PM
I blame Snailman for this thread.  How can you let non logic run so rampant?  :furious
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Lusche on December 06, 2010, 05:42:09 PM
I blame Snailman for this thread.  How can you let non logic run so rampant?  :furious

I'm too busy thinking of new ways to ruin the game...
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 06, 2010, 05:48:18 PM
I'm too busy thinking of new ways to ruin the game...

 :lol
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 06, 2010, 05:55:34 PM
+ 1000

They're only "discussing" by deliberately misunderstanding and misstating what the other side is saying.

***

In NFL and NCAA football, it takes 10 yards to get a first down. If you made it 30 yards, the game would be terrible. All games would be 3-0 "defensive struggles" in which 9 out of 10 series would be three and outs. This is not because quarterbacks suck or receivers are whiners or running backs have no 733t skillz, it is because in a game which balances skilled offensive players against equally skilled defensive players, the rules must create an arbitrary and artificial balance by making the goal for the offense something that is reasonably achievable, but not so easy that it's impossible for the defense to prevent. Given equally skilled offensive and defensive players, it will be relatively rare for the offense to gain 30 yards in 3 plays consistently enough to move the ball downfield and score touchdowns.

Likewise, given equally skilled offensive and defensive players, it would be so easy to move 5 yards in three plays that it would happen every series and no one would ever have to punt or try a field goal, there'd be a touchdown every time.

10 yards strikes a good balance and makes for good gameplay.


It's a really good analogy. 

Dadsguns has a differing opinion that I can respect.  He has stated that he thinks the game is balanced still but it will just take more time for land grabbers to maximize base taking efficiency.  I disagree, but I at least respect that point of view. 
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: bustr on December 06, 2010, 06:06:59 PM
You ever consider we are useing the wrong games for our compairitive analogies to the MA environment? We are a tad bit more like Rugby or Aussi Football in how the MA flows. FSO is more like the NFL because everyone is playing from a predetermined game plan with objectives and agreed upon assignments.

The MA is alot more like a pickup game of Rugby and we drink our pints while we play.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 06, 2010, 07:36:10 PM
You ever consider we are useing the wrong games for our compairitive analogies to the MA environment? We are a tad bit more like Rugby or Aussi Football in how the MA flows. FSO is more like the NFL because everyone is playing from a predetermined game plan with objectives and agreed upon assignments.

The MA is alot more like a pickup game of Rugby and we drink our pints while we play.

Naw...the MA is like a lady's beauty parlor, full of women crying how hard the game now is.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 06, 2010, 08:03:39 PM
 :rofl :lol :rofl

Naw...the MA is like a lady's beauty parlor, full of women crying how hard the game now is.


ack-ack

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: phatzo on December 06, 2010, 08:05:53 PM
Naw...the MA is like a lady's beauty parlor, full of women crying how hard the game now is.


ack-ack
they would be crying just as hard on the Aussie Rules field too.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Crash Orange on December 06, 2010, 08:30:55 PM
You ever consider we are useing the wrong games for our compairitive analogies to the MA environment? We are a tad bit more like Rugby or Aussi Football in how the MA flows.

In some ways, yes, but the similarity with American football is that you have discrete incremental steps along the way - first downs in football, base captures in AH.

In any event, the concept of balance is present in every game. Basketball would be boring as hell if the basket was 30 feet off the ground. Baseball would suck if there were 15 fielders instead of 9. It would also suck if there were 5 fielders. Soccer and rugby would suck if the field was 200 meters long with twice as many players. No one would ever get anywhere, most drives would just fizzle out somewhere in the middle of the field, even though the players have no more or less skill than they had before. Observing how boring this would make the game would not be "whining" or "crying" either.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 06, 2010, 09:27:54 PM
It's a really good analogy. 

Dadsguns has a differing opinion that I can respect.  He has stated that he thinks the game is balanced still but it will just take more time for land grabbers to maximize base taking efficiency.  I disagree, but I at least respect that point of view. 

Careful now Grizz, I'm started to get blinded from the glow of your halo :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: uptown on December 06, 2010, 09:42:35 PM
check ur PMs CorkyJr  :salute
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: oTRALFZo on December 07, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
In some ways, yes, but the similarity with American football is that you have discrete incremental steps along the way - first downs in football, base captures in AH.

In any event, the concept of balance is present in every game. Basketball would be boring as hell if the basket was 30 feet off the ground. Baseball would suck if there were 15 fielders instead of 9. It would also suck if there were 5 fielders. Soccer and rugby would suck if the field was 200 meters long with twice as many players. No one would ever get anywhere, most drives would just fizzle out somewhere in the middle of the field, even though the players have no more or less skill than they had before. Observing how boring this would make the game would not be "whining" or "crying" either.

Even in pro sports, they change certain aspects of the games to keep up with the times.

Im sure if there was a surge and players were consistently hitting 20 home runs per game, the league would then have to sit down and reconsider the fact that they might have to leangthen the feild.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: oTRALFZo on December 07, 2010, 03:35:43 AM
You must have corky and shuffler on bbs ignore then because they are completely ignorant to this point you make.  :lol

Thats not what I got from their posts. I think everyone can agree, when it comes to the MAs, this isnt a furballers game and this isnt a landgrabbers game.

Since the dawn of time, the controversy has always been with these 2 types of gameplay. I honestly think that "furballers" or I think more appropiate "guys that like killing things" dont get bent out of shape when bases are fought for instead of sneaked under their noses.
The new setup provides that. Though the change has called for huge masses to smash grab 1) the towns are still hard to see even if 30 guys are at the town, its very easy to miss a building 2) Where before it took average 10 guys to smash a base, now the flow calls for a steady horde to roll bases, which can be hard because usually offensive pushes die off in numbers as the night goes by.

For now, there is a balance. I say this because give it time and people will soon study the towns and find new ways to exploit the new changes. Guys can still take bases..its being done so no worries. But now at least were given a much more sporting choice to defend if we choose to as before where once a raid was spotted, chances are you up and 500 troops are running to the maproom.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: CptTrips on December 07, 2010, 10:46:54 AM
+ 1000

They're only "discussing" by deliberately misunderstanding and misstating what the other side is saying.

***



That was one of the more reasoned, and well argued posts I've seen on this bbs in a long time.

Regards,
Wab
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 07, 2010, 12:36:55 PM
Careful now Grizz, I'm started to get blinded from the glow of your halo :)

Grizz kind of reminds me alot of VMPR.... are they one and the same?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 07, 2010, 01:48:44 PM
Grizz kind of reminds me alot of VMPR.... are they one and the same?

No.  VMPR was in the 479th.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 07, 2010, 02:27:54 PM
Grizz kind of reminds me alot of VMPR.... are they one and the same?

You remind me of CAP1.  Are you two brothers?  :lol
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: BiPoLaR on December 07, 2010, 02:36:37 PM
Grizz kind of reminds me alot of VMPR.... are they one and the same?
Grizz is really a woman acting as a man in the MA.
Kind of like someone else that use to play this game  :noid
But a man acting as a woman.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 07, 2010, 03:13:56 PM
Grizz is really a woman acting as a man in the MA.
Kind of like someone else that use to play this game  :noid
But a man acting as a woman.

 :furious
Don't troll them into thinking I am blukitty now.  They already think I am both moot and fester.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: BiPoLaR on December 07, 2010, 03:24:09 PM
:furious
Don't troll them into thinking I am blukitty now.  They already think I am both moot and fester.
:noid
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: bustr on December 07, 2010, 04:11:17 PM
Grizz is an Auction caller at the Nebraska Bull exchange..........cana geta 10large here ona Polarguy goin twice ona Polarguy......sold one fine 5 year old breed stock to the cat in blue with a twinkle iner his eye......
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Vudak on December 07, 2010, 04:19:33 PM
I don't know why, but this stupid thread makes me really miss this game.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Silat on December 07, 2010, 05:07:43 PM
Agreed!  :aok

Shuffler loves the electric cattle prod his rancher uses:)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Silat on December 07, 2010, 05:09:24 PM
Grizz kind of reminds me alot of VMPR.... are they one and the same?

Shuff I dont think so.. VMPR was a better picker:)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Silat on December 07, 2010, 05:10:20 PM
You remind me of CAP1.  Are you two brothers?  :lol

In a way yes they are:)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: BiPoLaR on December 07, 2010, 05:27:14 PM
Shuff I dont think so.. VMPR was a better picker:)
:rofl :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 07, 2010, 06:10:57 PM
Shuff I dont think so.. VMPR was a better picker:)


And was the better pilot.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: sky25 on December 07, 2010, 06:41:55 PM
+ 1000

They're only "discussing" by deliberately misunderstanding and misstating what the other side is saying.

***

In NFL and NCAA football, it takes 10 yards to get a first down. If you made it 30 yards, the game would be terrible. All games would be 3-0 "defensive struggles" in which 9 out of 10 series would be three and outs. This is not because quarterbacks suck or receivers are whiners or running backs have no 733t skillz, it is because in a game which balances skilled offensive players against equally skilled defensive players, the rules must create an arbitrary and artificial balance by making the goal for the offense something that is reasonably achievable, but not so easy that it's impossible for the defense to prevent. Given equally skilled offensive and defensive players, it will be relatively rare for the offense to gain 30 yards in 3 plays consistently enough to move the ball downfield and score touchdowns.

Likewise, given equally skilled offensive and defensive players, it would be so easy to move 5 yards in three plays that it would happen every series and no one would ever have to punt or try a field goal, there'd be a touchdown every time.

10 yards strikes a good balance and makes for good gameplay.

What a lot of us have been saying is that the base-taking aspect of AH has gotten out of balance. It takes 30 yards to get a first down, therefore first downs are rare and no one ever scores a touchdown. This isn't because the offense sucks - after all, 90% of the people who care about base-taking and war-winning play both defense and offense in this game - it's because the arbitrary balance created by the game is out of whack. Given equally skilled play by offense and defense, the defense will usually win. It's not impossible to take bases, but it's difficult enough that no one can take enough in a short enough amount of time to win the map. There are no reasonably achievable strategic goals.

(The exception being the situation we saw earlier in SFMA, where two sides ignore each other and gang up on the third for an unusually extended period, but then of course you can't win the war that way either, as we've seen, all you can do is create an incredibly lopsided game.)

A bunch of people on thse forums read that, and somehow translate it to "I suck and haz no skillz and this game is 2 hard." Which is not remotely what is being said.

I think the root of the problem here is what grizz has identified: some of the "furballers" here don't care about that balance and don't even recognize its existence or the validity of the concept, because they despise the entire base taking/strategic aspect of the game. What they wan't isn't for base taking to be appropriately difficult, it's for base taking to be infinitely difficult, so that no one bothers with it and everyone plays the way they want, which is to mindlessly furball with no strategic goal in mind. Why should anyone ever want to end a perfectly good fight by taking the base?

That is, of course, not what HTC are trying to achieve - they are trying to make it appropriately difficult and strike a proper balance. The criticism is that they are in error and what we have now isn't a proper balance, it's an endless 3-0 "defensive struggle" (complete with massive hordes since that's the only remaining practical way to take defended bases). Their changes have not produced the results they intended.

And what unperked 262s have to do with any of this, I can't imagine. It's just something deliberately stupid that has been tossed out to derail the discussion. Guppy is trying to make the people he disagrees with look ridiculous and stupid, by saying something he knows is ridiculous and stupid and pretending it's what they're saying when it is perfectly obvious that it isn't.

Loki, Could you turn this into a NASCAR analogy so that I can understand it? :salute

Well Said!
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 07, 2010, 09:00:05 PM

And was the better pilot.

ack-ack

Then the transitive property of mathematics does not speak well of many players in this game.   :angel:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: BillyD on December 07, 2010, 09:04:17 PM
Then the transitive property of mathematics does not speak well of many players in this game.   :angel:


WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!


<-------head explodes
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: CptTrips on December 07, 2010, 09:28:11 PM





I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.  George Bernard Shaw




Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Perrine on December 07, 2010, 11:54:04 PM
in addition to OP's suggestion... how about this?

1.  Instead of perking planes, how about giving planes such as Tempest 0-ENY?  Still flyable but 0-ENY.  I think this is necessary to nudge people to fly other diverse planes and not stick to 1 uuber variant :aok

2.  In late war arena there should be late war planes only (excluding selected bombers)

example:
- mid war arena = mid war planes only (excluding some selected bombers)
- early war arena = early war planes only (excluding some selected bombers)
- late war arena = late war planes only (excluding some selected bombers)

here's how its gonna look like


Early war: 1940-1941


USA
B-25C ... 1-41
C-47A ... 12-41
P-39D .... 10-41(ETO)
P-40B ... 1-41
P-40E ... 8-41
F4F-4 ... 9-41(ETO)
SBD
***US needs navy torpedo bomber such as TBD Devastator for this time frame***


Britain
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Hurricane Mk I ... 5-40
Hurricane IIC ... 4-41
Spitfire Mk IA ... 8-40
Spitfire V ... 4-41


Finland
B-239 Brewster ... 3-40


Soviet
I-16... 1-40
***USSR sorely needs the followingfor this time frame***
Fighters:  Yak-1, LaGG-3, MiG-3
Bombers:  IL-4



Italy
C.202 ... 11-41
***Italy sorely needs at least a bomber, and Fiat and Reggiane fighters***


Japan
A6M2 ... 7-40
B5N2  ... 7-40
D3A-1 ... 7-40
G4M1 (new model, coming soon)
***Japan sorely needs the following for this time frame***
Navy Bomber:  G3M  
Army Fighters:  Ki-43-I,  Ki-45
Army Bombers:  Ki-21



Germany
Bf 109E-4 ... 5-40
Bf 109F-4 ... 6-41
Bf 110C-4b ... 8-40
Ju 88A-4 ... 5-41
Ju 87B
Ju-87D
***Germany sorely needs Dornier and Heinkel bombers***


Mid war: 1942-1943


USA
A-20G ... 5-42
B-17G ... 6-43
B-25C ... 1-41
B-24J ... 5-43
B-26B ... 5-42
C-47A ... 12-41
P-38G ... 11-42
P-39D .... 10-41(ETO), 4-42(PTO), 5-42(EF)
P-39Q ... 10-43 (PTO) 11-43 (EF) 1-44 (MTO)
P-40E ... 8-41
P-47D-11 ... 3-43(D5)
F4F-4 ... 9-41(ETO),5-42(PTO)
F6F-3
F4U-1 ... 2-43(ETO)
F4U-1A ... 7-43(PTO)
SBD-5 ... 5-43
TBM-3 ... 2-43
***US needs P-40L and N army fighters for this time frame***


Britain
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Hurricane IIC ... 4-41
Hurricane IID ... 6-42
Lancaster III ... 3-42
Mosquito Mk VI ... 7-43(ETO),11-43(PTO&CBI)
Seafire IIC ... 10-42,11-43(ETO)
Spitfire V ... 4-41
Spitfire VIII ... 7-43
Spitfire Mk IX ... 7-42
***Britain needs Hurricane Mk IV and Spitfire Mk XII for this time frame***


Soviet
Il-2 Type 3 ... 10-42
La-5FN ... 3-43
Yak-9T ... 1-43
***USSR sorely needs the following for this time frame***
Fighters:  Yak-1, Yak-7, Yak-9D, LaGG-3, La-5, MiG-3
Bombers:  Pe-2, Tu-2



Italy
C.202 ... 11-41
C.205 ... 1-43
***Italy sorely needs at least a bomber, and Fiat and Reggiane fighters***


Japan
A6M5b ... 8-43
B5N2  ... 7-40
D3A-1 ... 7-40
G4M1 (new model, coming soon)
Ki-61 ... 6-43
***Japan sorely needs the following for this time frame***
Navy Fighters:  A6M3 model 22, A6M3 model 32
Navy Bombers:  D3A2
Army Fighters:  Ki-43-II, Ki-44, Ki-45
Army Bombers:  Ki-49-II



Germany
Bf 109F-4 ... 6-41
Bf 109G-2 ... 6-42
Bf 109G-6 ... 2-43
Bf 110G-2 ... 5-42
Fw 190A-5 ... 6-43*
Ju 88A-4 ... 5-41
Ju-87D
Ju-87G
***Germany sorely needs Dornier, Heinkel, more Junkers bombers/variants, Henschell HS-219***


Late war: 1944-1945



USA
A-20G ... 5-42
B-17G ... 6-43
B-25C ... 1-41
B-25H ... 9-44
B-24J ... 5-43
B-26B ... 5-42
B-29
C-47A ... 12-41
P-38J ... 12-43(ETO) 2-44(PTO)
P-38L ... 7-44
P-39Q ... 10-43 (PTO) 11-43 (EF) 1-44 (MTO)
P-47D-11 ... 1-44(D11)
P-47D-25 ... 5-44
P-47D-40 ... 1-45(ETO)
P-47N ... 6-45
P-51B ... 12-43(ETO),8-44(CBI)
P51D ... 5-44(ETO),1-45(CBI&PTO)
FM-2 ... 6-44(ETO),10-44(PTO)
F6F-5 ... 7-44
F4U-1 ... 4-44(ETO)
F4U-1A ... 7-43(PTO),12-43(ETO)
F4U-1D ... 1-45
F4U-1C ... 4-45
F4U-4 ... 4-45
F6F-5 ... 7-44
SBD-5 ... 5-43
TBM-3 ... 2-43
***US needs P-40N army fighter and SB2C dive bomber for this time frame***


Britain
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Mosquito Mk VI ... 7-43(ETO),11-43(PTO&CBI)
Mosquito B.XVI ... 1-44(ETO)
Seafire IIC ... 10-42,11-43(ETO)
Spitfire VIII ... 7-43
Spitfire Mk XIV ... 5-44,7-45(CBI)
Spitfire Mk XVI ... 7-44
Tempest V ... 5-44
Typhoon IB
***Britain needs Hurricane Mk IV for this time frame***


Soviet
Il-2 Type 3 ... 10-42
La-5FN ... 3-43
La-7 ... 6-44
Yak-9U ... 7/8-44
***USSR sorely needs the following for this time frame***
Fighters:  Yak-3
Bombers:  Pe-2, Tu-2



Italy
C.205 ... 1-43
***Italy sorely needs at least a bomber, and Fiat and Reggiane fighters***


Japan
A6M5b ... 8-43
N1K2-J ... 1-45
G4M1 (new model, coming soon)
Ki-61 ... 6-43
Ki-84-la ... 8-44 (CBI),10-44(PTO)
Ki-67 ... 4-44
***Japan sorely needs the following for this time frame***
Navy Fighters:  J2M
Navy Bombers:  B6N, D4Y
Army Fighters:  Ki-43-III, Ki-44, Ki-45, Ki-100



Germany
Ar 234B ... 12-44
Bf 109G-6 ... 2-43
Bf 109G-14 ... 7-44
Bf 109K-4 ... 10-44
Fw 190A-5 ... 6-43*
Fw 190A-8 ... 2-44
Fw 190D-9 ... 12-44
Fw 190F-8 ... 4-44 (replaced Ju-87D in frontline service (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqe1bxJA3Zo))
Ju-87G
Ju 88A-4 ... 5-41
Me 262 ... 10-44
Me 163 ... 9-44
Ta 152H ... 1-45
***Germany sorely needs Dornier, Heinkel, more Junkers bombers/variants, Henschell HS-219 and Me-410***


0-ENY planes


Early war
Hurricane IIC

Mid war
F4U-1A
P-47D-5
Mosquito bomber
Spitfire VIII
Spitfire XII
La-5FN
Bf-110G

late war
P-38L
P-47N
P-51D
F4U-1C
F4U-4
B-29
Mosquito bomber
Spitfire XVI
Spitfire XIV
Typhoon
Tempest
La-7
N1K2-J
Bf 109K
Fw-190D
Ta-152H
Me 163
Me 262
Ar 234
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 08, 2010, 12:01:40 AM
ika ika ika, capang, rupoing, balu balu balubala


WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!


<-------head explodes
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 08, 2010, 12:32:50 AM
Then the transitive property of mathematics does not speak well of many players in this game.   :angel:

My apologies if VMPR when he was playing was a better flyer, but then so was Lev, Drex and a few others. 


ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 08, 2010, 06:37:23 AM
My apologies if VMPR when he was playing was a better flyer, but then so was Lev, Drex and a few others. 


ack-ack

but would you prove that that still rings true against the Grizz of today?

Grizz has made huge leaps forward in both his basic ACM BFM skillz and his ability to read the fight and his opponent and his aim is beyond discussion or doubt, in the last couple of years, so the Grizz of their time is not the Grizz that stands before the forum today. compound that further by all of the changes and improvements made to the graphics and flight modeling of the game and those who have not been continually playing have been left far behind those who didnt leave the game and have kept their skillz current to the game.

so to imply that those of a time gone by are better than someone who has become as formidable a foe as Grizz has is rediculous and unsupportable. its like trying to say that the Dallas Cowboys of the late 70's early 80's could easily beat the N.E. Pats of today, there is just no way to support the argument.

i do not say this because Grizz is a Muppet, i would say almost the same if you were discussing the skillz of ToneyJoey, making comparissons across the span of time is rediculous and completely unsupportable. who is to say for certain that VMPR could have adapted to the changes and still retained the same skill level he previously held?

if you want to compare Grizz to someone then put up the challenge and compare his skill at playing this game to yours after the duel is done. your a good stick ack-ack, if Grizz is as untalented as you infer then you shouldnt worry abouting pitting your skill against his.

unless, that is, your afraid of having to eat your words and high horsed attitude in this forum should he beat you.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 08, 2010, 09:36:35 AM
but would you prove that that still rings true against the Grizz of today?

Grizz has made huge leaps forward in both his basic ACM BFM skillz and his ability to read the fight and his opponent and his aim is beyond discussion or doubt, in the last couple of years, so the Grizz of their time is not the Grizz that stands before the forum today. compound that further by all of the changes and improvements made to the graphics and flight modeling of the game and those who have not been continually playing have been left far behind those who didnt leave the game and have kept their skillz current to the game.

so to imply that those of a time gone by are better than someone who has become as formidable a foe as Grizz has is rediculous and unsupportable. its like trying to say that the Dallas Cowboys of the late 70's early 80's could easily beat the N.E. Pats of today, there is just no way to support the argument.

i do not say this because Grizz is a Muppet, i would say almost the same if you were discussing the skillz of ToneyJoey, making comparissons across the span of time is rediculous and completely unsupportable. who is to say for certain that VMPR could have adapted to the changes and still retained the same skill level he previously held?

if you want to compare Grizz to someone then put up the challenge and compare his skill at playing this game to yours after the duel is done. your a good stick ack-ack, if Grizz is as untalented as you infer then you shouldnt worry abouting pitting your skill against his.

unless, that is, your afraid of having to eat your words and high horsed attitude in this forum should he beat you.

 :lol  Don't get mad at the gods  :old:  Consider this.  They were the first to become good.  Sure 10 years latter a lot of other guys got good by watching, learning and copying what the gods did.  But, it is 10 years too late.  Just because the gods took a break it does not mean you should disrespect them.  :old:  One more time, they got good fast and first.  10 years latter any one can run their mouth vs some nubes.

I hope they forgive you  :(


Its like the first guy to invent electricity.  He was first.  Then some Grizz comes in and flips a switch, the lights come on and you say that "Look, that guy was not that good, Grizz can make light too"  :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 08, 2010, 09:56:41 AM
:lol  Don't get mad at the gods  :old:  Consider this.  They were the first to become good.  Sure 10 years latter a lot of other guys got good by watching, learning and copying what the gods did.  But, it is 10 years too late.  Just because the gods took a break it does not mean you should disrespect them.  :old:  One more time, they got good fast and first.  10 years latter any one can run their mouth vs some nubes.

I hope they forgive you  :(

Ded no sacralidge here!

they were the first and the finest of their days...when their altars were worshipped upon they were filled with the offerings of the newbs sacrificed upon it for the graces of greater knowledge and glory....but that was in their days.

to try to pit their skillz of yesteryear against Grizz's skillz of today is unfair to both parties and one or the other will not get a fair showing.

Grizz may have learned lessons from the knowledge first obtained and left behind by the lords of the cartoon air ways teachings, but i am pretty certain that in todays age they would learn at least a few tricks from Grizz and his one shot one kill sniper aproach.

i am only saying that they each have their time to shine and it isnt fair to anyone to smother them in the shadow of another, especially when its merely the memory of another.

would you compare the Model A to the Mustang? they both have their time and they both had their place, grive them each the credit for their accomplishments that they have earned.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Vinkman on December 08, 2010, 10:14:31 AM

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!


<-------head explodes

It means if player A is better than Player B, and Player B is Better than Player C, Than Player A is better than player C.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SWkiljoy on December 08, 2010, 10:16:48 AM
I see nothing but this becoming a 262 furball at 40K, just to wind down towards the earth in a spiral of canon fire  :joystick:
Sounds AWESOME!  soo....when shall this "unperking grace period" take into effect?   :devil   :rock :rock :rock
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 08, 2010, 10:38:31 AM
It is the towns. You can see that statistically. The number of captures per played hours had been very stable for years. The moment the new towns were introduced this number radically changed. Which is no wonder, as it takes much more effort to kill more buildings (which also means the time frame for a successful capture is much smaller), it's more difficult to see if all are down, and of course it's much easier for a small number of defenders to hold a town.

The knowhow, respectively the attitude of the players doesn't change that drastically from one tour to the next one.

With the next release we will be making some adjustments for this. The new town release was never meant to be harder to capture.

HiTech

Just sayin.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 08, 2010, 10:42:42 AM
Shuffler loves the electric cattle prod his rancher uses:)

 :neener:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 08, 2010, 10:47:09 AM
Ded no sacralidge here!

they were the first and the finest of their days...when their altars were worshipped upon they were filled with the offerings of the newbs sacrificed upon it for the graces of greater knowledge and glory....but that was in their days.

to try to pit their skillz of yesteryear against Grizz's skillz of today is unfair to both parties and one or the other will not get a fair showing.

Grizz may have learned lessons from the knowledge first obtained and left behind by the lords of the cartoon air ways teachings, but i am pretty certain that in todays age they would learn at least a few tricks from Grizz and his one shot one kill sniper aproach.

i am only saying that they each have their time to shine and it isnt fair to anyone to smother them in the shadow of another, especially when its merely the memory of another.

would you compare the Model A to the Mustang? they both have their time and they both had their place, grive them each the credit for their accomplishments that they have earned.

So you are suggesting that in fact Grizz is the second coming? :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: CptTrips on December 08, 2010, 10:52:44 AM
Just sayin.

 :rofl

 :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 08, 2010, 11:03:28 AM
Ded no sacralidge here!

they were the first and the finest of their days...when their altars were worshipped upon they were filled with the offerings of the newbs sacrificed upon it for the graces of greater knowledge and glory....but that was in their days.

to try to pit their skillz of yesteryear against Grizz's skillz of today is unfair to both parties and one or the other will not get a fair showing.

Grizz may have learned lessons from the knowledge first obtained and left behind by the lords of the cartoon air ways teachings, but i am pretty certain that in todays age they would learn at least a few tricks from Grizz and his one shot one kill sniper aproach.

i am only saying that they each have their time to shine and it isnt fair to anyone to smother them in the shadow of another, especially when its merely the memory of another.

would you compare the Model A to the Mustang? they both have their time and they both had their place, grive them each the credit for their accomplishments that they have earned.

lol, I know, I am just playing  :lol  But, I have fought both in their good days and in their rusty days.  They are definitely  not model A to be compared to the mustang.  They may be a bit rusty but they do have a lot more experience and the rust can go away in a few weeks.  And if that tatter misses, experience will have the advantage.

Look at is as a Mustang that has been in the hangar for a bit but has seen years of battle Vs a mustang right out of the factory.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 08, 2010, 11:10:27 AM
And if that tatter misses, experience will have the advantage.

Due to experience, that tater don't miss.  :cheers:

But in all seriousness this thread has been derailed.  There are plenty of pilots that give me a run for my money and even a few that are better on any given sunday.  Kazaa, JoeyTony, batfinkv, sunsfan, kappa, (few others maybe), can all beat me up on any given sunday. 

You all ever hear of Wetrat? Old school muppet that used to go 50/50 with Leviathn yet is hardly remembered.  Food for thought.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SWkiljoy on December 08, 2010, 11:18:58 AM
You all ever hear of Wetrat? Old school muppet that used to go 50/50 with Leviathn yet is hardly remembered.  Food for thought.
That SpitV was quite deadly, kinda scary to be in the same area with Leviathn when he was in that thing, even when he was friendly   :uhoh
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 08, 2010, 12:19:51 PM
Due to experience, that tater don't miss.  :cheers:

But in all seriousness this thread has been derailed.  There are plenty of pilots that give me a run for my money and even a few that are better on any given sunday.  Kazaa, JoeyTony, batfinkv, sunsfan, kappa, (few others maybe), can all beat me up on any given sunday.  

You all ever hear of Wetrat? Old school muppet that used to go 50/50 with Leviathn yet is hardly remembered.  Food for thought.

 :rofl  Not the wetrat I know.  You seem to forget a few others on your list lol
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 08, 2010, 12:30:21 PM
:rofl  Not the wetrat I know.  You seem to forget a few others on your list lol

I said a few others.  If I was making a list of people that can kill me it would be quite large and you would be on it, but I was actually referring to those that can consistently give me a run for my money or flat out beat me in a decent sized sample set of duels.  Maybe you have been practicing and want another shot?   :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SWkiljoy on December 08, 2010, 12:34:45 PM

unless, that is, your afraid of having to eat your words and high horsed attitude in this forum should he beat you.
Anyone up for fishing?  This sure is some good BAIT.   :rofl
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 08, 2010, 12:41:08 PM
You all ever hear of Wetrat? Old school muppet that used to go 50/50 with Leviathn yet is hardly remembered.  Food for thought.

Uh, what?

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 08, 2010, 12:43:00 PM
Uh, what?



Not true?  That's what wetrat said.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 08, 2010, 12:44:21 PM
Not true?  That's what wetrat said.

I don't even recall ever dueling him.  The MA is another matter entirely, and I died plenty there to just about everyone.  Don't get me wrong, Wetrat was a fine stick in his own right, but what you wrote is news to me.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 08, 2010, 12:45:56 PM
I don't even recall ever dueling him.  The MA is another matter entirely, and I died plenty there to just about everyone.  Don't get me wrong, Wetrat was a fine stick in his own right, but what you wrote is news to me.


Interesting.  Next time he resurfaces I will get to the bottom of this!  :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 08, 2010, 12:48:53 PM
I said a few others.  If I was making a list of people that can kill me it would be quite large and you would be on it, but I was actually referring to those that can consistently give me a run for my money or flat out beat me in a decent sized sample set of duels.  Maybe you have been practicing and want another shot?   :D

 :rofl heh, like I could not tell that was coming lol.  I was talking about Bighorn.  He is one of the the old ones you know.  But I m on line a lot the last few weeks.  I think last attempt I was told I was 15mph too fast?  :lol
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 08, 2010, 12:51:18 PM
Not true?  That's what wetrat said.

Maybe he was talking about panzers?  Wetrat is a nice guy and all but if he made it 30 seconds with me back then, it would have been a miracle.  SkyRock and Creton also told everyone they were the best but it was only a dream  :lol  Wait, now that I think about it, half the mappets would have told you at one point or another that they were the best  :neener:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 08, 2010, 12:55:21 PM
:rofl heh, like I could not tell that was coming lol.  I was talking about Bighorn.  He is one of the the old ones you know.  But I m on line a lot the last few weeks.  I think last attempt I was told I was 15mph too fast?  :lol

Oh yeah bighorn for sure.  Although he will admit he hasn't been himself since he got a new monitor that acts goofy.

We will tango again soon I'm sure, I haven't been playing much the past couple months.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 08, 2010, 06:56:39 PM
Ded i concede to your Mustang analogy, very good comparison!

i wouldn't call Grizz the second coming......i would call his a first coming of his own style. if you watch the films of him flying and then watch the films of the older greats i think you'll find that he is a mixing and melding of many of the old and great ones into one pilot. he changes style and adjusts his fighting attitude from one oldy to the next in the blink of an eye. he has mixed them so thoroughly that he has created his own bag of tricks.

Grizz deserves his props and credit for his innovation and ability to seemlessly mix together the many styles of those that came before him.

as far as his humbleness and naming names of those that could beat him........well lets just say i have watch him alot and i dont see any of those names consistantly beating him. at least not consistantly enough to be able to say that he isnt a threat and that they didnt have to earn every bloody victory.

well enough Grizz leg humping.......we hate each other so he can *&(^%$*%$^N (&%$&)Y^TER% me!!!!!  :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 08, 2010, 07:07:17 PM
Maybe he was talking about panzers?  Wetrat is a nice guy and all but if he made it 30 seconds with me back then, it would have been a miracle.  SkyRock and Creton also told everyone they were the best but it was only a dream  :lol  Wait, now that I think about it, half the mappets would have told you at one point or another that they were the best  :neener:

There is a hidden truth in what you said.  The best of the sticks going back as far as my Airwarrior days, didn't talk about it, they just did it.  Over time the word spread through the masses as their actions spoke volumes.  They didn't need to talk themselves up, they just kept clobbering all comers.

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 08, 2010, 08:46:37 PM
forum fart double post.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 08, 2010, 08:51:25 PM
wow...actually a forum fart triple post.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 08, 2010, 08:55:03 PM
but would you prove that that still rings true against the Grizz of today?



No offense but I have fought Grizz many times and beaten him many times to know that while he may be good, he doesn't walk on water.  The same goes for any of the Muppets and frankly, any of the other good sticks as well.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 08, 2010, 09:32:24 PM
No offense but I have fought Grizz many times and beaten him many times to know that while he may be good, he doesn't walk on water.  The same goes for any of the Muppets and frankly, any of the other good sticks as well.
ack-ack

Idk if you have ever beat me with less E but you definitely are one of the best E fighters in the game and have killed me plenty of times using that E to your advantage.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 08, 2010, 09:37:04 PM
Idk if you have ever beat me with less E but you definitely are one of the best E fighters in the game and have killed me plenty of times using that E to your advantage.


<Face palm>

A classic example of why all the cartoon, I'm bestest talk is pointless as no one has ever lost an even fight.  The other guy always had some advantage, the joystick slipped, my wife spoke to me, the cat bumped the keyboard....

You gents could dual til the cows come home and it won't make a difference.

Is it at all possible that there are a lot of good sticks in the game, and at some point that's as far as it's gonna get?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 08, 2010, 09:47:46 PM
No offense but I have fought Grizz many times and beaten him many times to know that while he may be good, he doesn't walk on water.  The same goes for any of the Muppets and frankly, any of the other good sticks as well.


ack-ack

so you are such a great stick that the skill of others just falls below the level of impressing you? so if your so great how come you dont get 15 and 20 plus kills in one sortie (obviously rearms included), why do you live in the 38 instead of mixing most of your flights up? what is your k/d and hit percentage?

now im not implying that you are a bad player, but you shouldnt cast stones against the skillz aquired by someone else until you have bested all of his scores and stats on equal terms more than just once. (just once could be a fluke) and even when you accomplish doing that on your own, you still have no right to cast disparaging judgments against another who has become so skilled a player that the majority of the populace are nothing more than cannon fodder for him.

Grizz is well above what anyone would call a "good" player. he is talented and extremely skilled. if you cant give him that much credit then you should keep your opinion under your hat. truth is truth.

and on a final note, he may not be able to walk on water....but he damn well could skip taters on it!!!!  :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 08, 2010, 10:12:33 PM

<Face palm>

A classic example of why all the cartoon, I'm bestest talk is pointless as no one has ever lost an even fight.  The other guy always had some advantage, the joystick slipped, my wife spoke to me, the cat bumped the keyboard....

You gents could dual til the cows come home and it won't make a difference.

Is it at all possible that there are a lot of good sticks in the game, and at some point that's as far as it's gonna get?

 :lol
I lose plenty of even fights.  Just not to P38's in the main arena.  If I have, I can't remember, at least not in the past year.

Best ownage I saw in the main arena was being reversed by Joeytony's P51D as a matter of fact.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 08, 2010, 10:14:04 PM
so you are such a great stick that the skill of others just falls below the level of impressing you?  

You honestly want to know the only times that I've been truly impressed by someone's flying?  I can only count two times where someone's flying was so incredible to watch that it was actually an honor to see them in action.

Both times were in Aces High, about a year after I started playing.  The first one I saw a Ju88 that was about to be bounced by 4-5 bandits and I told the Ju88 driver that I was on my way and I hit WEP to catch up.  The Ju88 driver told me not to worry and I then watched as this Ju88 out turned a few N1K2s and La7s, killing each one of them.  fight couldn't have lasted more than 2-3 minutes top.  Second time, a Spitfire V and myself were on the deck though with a bit of seperation between us.  The Spit V gets jumped by 4 bandits, I tell the Spit V that I'm on my way.  By the time I get there the Spit V had already shot down 3 and was saddling up in the 4th when a couple of other bandits jumped in, I managed to get one and the Spit V ended up having to clear my six of the 2nd late entry bandit.  I think when the dust settled, the Spit V driver had shot down 5 of the 6 bandits.

I've yet to see any pilot display such skill as watching Drex and Leviathn on those two occasions.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 08, 2010, 10:15:34 PM
Idk if you have ever beat me with less E but you definitely are one of the best E fighters in the game and have killed me plenty of times using that E to your advantage.

okay, yours is "energy advantage", Sc0tch's was "stall limiter", which begs me to wonder is what was sun's excuse after our duels a couple of weeks ago?

ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 08, 2010, 10:21:12 PM
okay, yours is "energy advantage", Sc0tch's was "stall limiter", which begs me to wonder is what was sun's excuse after our duels a couple of weeks ago?

ack-ack

Maybe I'm wrong.  Have you beaten me before on even ground in the MA?  The only times I can remember losing to you have been when you come in with more E and played it perfectly to your advantage, you are one of the best with E.  But Co E merge p38 vs k4?  Sorry, I can't recall it if it ever happened, but I can recall plenty of times p38 parts came raining down. :)
Maybe it has happened before though.  I'd be willing to duel anytime you'd like.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 09, 2010, 12:42:22 AM
You honestly want to know the only times that I've been truly impressed by someone's flying?  I can only count two times where someone's flying was so incredible to watch that it was actually an honor to see them in action.

Both times were in Aces High, about a year after I started playing.  The first one I saw a Ju88 that was about to be bounced by 4-5 bandits and I told the Ju88 driver that I was on my way and I hit WEP to catch up.  The Ju88 driver told me not to worry and I then watched as this Ju88 out turned a few N1K2s and La7s, killing each one of them.  fight couldn't have lasted more than 2-3 minutes top.  Second time, a Spitfire V and myself were on the deck though with a bit of seperation between us.  The Spit V gets jumped by 4 bandits, I tell the Spit V that I'm on my way.  By the time I get there the Spit V had already shot down 3 and was saddling up in the 4th when a couple of other bandits jumped in, I managed to get one and the Spit V ended up having to clear my six of the 2nd late entry bandit.  I think when the dust settled, the Spit V driver had shot down 5 of the 6 bandits.

I've yet to see any pilot display such skill as watching Drex and Leviathn on those two occasions.

ack-ack

Drex has been up and about a bit lately.  I got him a couple times while the rust was showing.  It's been ugly since.  What I like is he generally is low and looking for a fight in that Spit IX of his.  Agent, unless the crowd has irked himto the point of getting frustrated, fights the same way.  Look low and there he is on the deck looking for a fight.

Good fun, even if I get the chop more then half the time :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 09, 2010, 12:48:20 AM
Just to add to the previous.  There are a number of guys out there who come in looking to fight, and can generally be found down low.  JUGgler, again, unless the crowd has driven him to dispair, is willing to bend whatever bird he's in, including that D-25 of his, in ways most don't.   Madda is another just looking to have at it.  Catfish tonight was doing the same in a 205. 

The ones really fun to fight and watch fight are the guys who do more with less.  Slapshot and his FM2 comes to mind as well.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yenny on December 09, 2010, 01:45:38 AM
deffinately fun fights near the A1 area tonight
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 09, 2010, 08:32:25 AM
Just to add to the previous.  There are a number of guys out there who come in looking to fight, and can generally be found down low.  JUGgler, again, unless the crowd has driven him to dispair, is willing to bend whatever bird he's in, including that D-25 of his, in ways most don't.   Madda is another just looking to have at it.  Catfish tonight was doing the same in a 205. 

The ones really fun to fight and watch fight are the guys who do more with less.  Slapshot and his FM2 comes to mind as well.

Don't Fm2's outturn most aircraft in the game?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: sunfan1121 on December 09, 2010, 08:46:43 AM
.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 09, 2010, 08:49:54 AM
This thread kinda makes me sad. 
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FiLtH on December 09, 2010, 08:57:21 AM
  Funny seeing these threads pop up every now and then.

   When the puppies aint petted, they howl.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: R 105 on December 09, 2010, 09:18:30 AM
I shot Grizz's 262 down one day. He had been bouncing low plane at a base one two away from where he was operating from. I went to that base and killed the radar in a 190-A5 and waited just off his base for his return. Once he was taking off again I made my appearance while he was low and slow and shot his 262 down. I lost my engine oil chasing him back into the ack and had to ditch later but I got what I came for.

Now this required no particular skill on my part I even used one of our bailed out pilots to tell me when he was taking off again. I know he had kills on board most likely or he wouldn't have been on the rearm pad. Just a little pay back from me for getting jumped and shot down by him and his  jet earlier in the day. So anyone can kill anyone else if conditions are just right even me and I am no pilot in a dog fight my frame rate is just to low for that.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 09, 2010, 09:43:17 AM
I think we seem to confuse skill with name in lights skill.  All late grate ones seem to focus on score or at list K/D.  They tend to have good aim and the ability to get out on time.  They can be found surrounded by squadies that are willing to die for them in order to get out safely.  If you want to meet them, you can find them at the end of runways, not vulching, but picking on slow planes that just took off and had avoid a few others first.  To achieve this goal, they had to develop good aim and the ability to fly the one hit wonder planes.  They also tend to explain to every one how good they are through their directors of propaganda.  Now, I am not saying they could not fight.  They can.  Some are pretty good too, but they do not fight in the MA unless cornered.  So, this is the new style of skill.  The improvement over the old one.

Then there is the old style.  Read ack ack's post to see that one.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 09, 2010, 10:42:35 AM
I think we seem to confuse skill with name in lights skill.  All late grate ones seem to focus on score or at list K/D.  They tend to have good aim and the ability to get out on time.  They can be found surrounded by squadies that are willing to die for them in order to get out safely.  If you want to meet them, you can find them at the end of runways, not vulching, but picking on slow planes that just took off and had avoid a few others first.  To achieve this goal, they had to develop good aim and the ability to fly the one hit wonder planes.  They also tend to explain to every one how good they are through their directors of propaganda.  Now, I am not saying they could not fight.  They can.  Some are pretty good too, but they do not fight in the MA unless cornered.  So, this is the new style of skill.  The improvement over the old one.

Then there is the old style.  Read ack ack's post to see that one.

Ded i hope that isn't your description of Grizz. if that is how you see him then i feel you are woefully missleading yourself. i will agree that alot of the "skilled" pilots i have seen lately seem to fall within that description, but Grizz does not.

i may be Grizz's squaddie, but i am far from being one of his fans. there are many things that we as individuals have found we do not agree upon. this does not preclude us from being in the same squad nor does it preclude me from stating what i believe to be the truth about his skill in this game.

so with that being said, in my opinion, which i believe to be unbiased, Grizz is currently one of the best sticks in the game in most types of fighter combat and in most planes. i don't see anyone being able to consistently or easily defeat him. don't duel him best of 5 or best of 10 even, try doing best of 10 for ten days, then at the end see how many out of 100 you have won.

if you did happen to have some amazing and tricky type of flying skill that would throw him in the beginning then i would still say that by the fourth day he will have learned your style and melded it into his own improved upon it and would then beat you about the head and neck with it. that is where Grizz's talents truly lay, he is one of those people who have the ability to watch, learn, addapt and absorb the skills of others he flies with/against and then mutate those skillz to fit into his own style of play. (i watched him do this while he flew with m00t, SkyRock and other good sticks when he first joined the Muppet's, so this is not an unfounded or unsupported statement) he is not a one trick pony, watch him some time and look for the constant changes in style that he uses. you may find yourself watching and then naming the pilots that you see.

well anyways, ack is a damn fine 38 jockie, but he refuses to fly outside of his comfort zone and then talks smack about those that he beats. not much broadbased skill there in my opinion. he refuses to use the 109, and from what i understand most other planes, always duels in his chosen ride, thus its never an equal fight because you as his opponent must always meet him at his advantage. Grizz on the other hand will fly anywhere at any alt in any ride, i have never heard of him refusing no matter how bizarr the plane choice.

finally, and i think most importantly, if you duel Grizz and check your mouth and your attitude at the door he will make sure you have a fun time and if there is something you want to learn he will do his best to teach you. but if you go in and you choose to act like a punk.....well lets just say that your quality of fun is all in your hands.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 09, 2010, 10:46:41 AM
 :noid
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yeager on December 09, 2010, 11:09:27 AM
what about that shawk guy.  He has consistently ranked top (or near top) slot in game for the past several years, yet no one seems to refer to him as a great stick?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Vudak on December 09, 2010, 11:15:14 AM

i may be Grizz's squaddie, but i am far from being one of his fans.


If you're not his fan, my next guess is you're his attorney :D

Seriously though...  Grizz is great, yes.  A great guy too, and fun in the DA.  Gotta love a guy who can kill you 10 times in a row and still make it fun, though this isn't a particularly unique trait around here.

I do get what Ack-Ack is saying though...  My story's a little different than his though...  When I was new, I was rushing in to be the fourth on one P-47...  I kept getting closer, and every 10 seconds or so... *BOOM!*  ...  *BOOM!* ... *BOOM!* ...  I finally show up, all on my lonesome now, and probably less than 10 seconds later... "System: Shane has shot you down." (Soon followed by PLENTY of other messages  :rofl )

That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen in the MA.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: doc1kelley on December 09, 2010, 11:41:33 AM
This thread kinda makes me sad. 
The thread doesn't make me sad, but what does is that folks like you aren't flying anymore Levi!  :mad: :(

All the Best...

    Jay
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 09, 2010, 12:19:40 PM
what about that shawk guy.  He has consistently ranked top (or near top) slot in game for the past several years, yet no one seems to refer to him as a great stick?

Do a BBS search foo  :lol
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 09, 2010, 12:25:24 PM
Ded i hope that isn't your description of Grizz. if that is how you see him then i feel you are woefully missleading yourself. i will agree that alot of the "skilled" pilots i have seen lately seem to fall within that description, but Grizz does not.

i may be Grizz's squaddie, but i am far from being one of his fans. there are many things that we as individuals have found we do not agree upon. this does not preclude us from being in the same squad nor does it preclude me from stating what i believe to be the truth about his skill in this game.

so with that being said, in my opinion, which i believe to be unbiased, Grizz is currently one of the best sticks in the game in most types of fighter combat and in most planes. i don't see anyone being able to consistently or easily defeat him. don't duel him best of 5 or best of 10 even, try doing best of 10 for ten days, then at the end see how many out of 100 you have won.

if you did happen to have some amazing and tricky type of flying skill that would throw him in the beginning then i would still say that by the fourth day he will have learned your style and melded it into his own improved upon it and would then beat you about the head and neck with it. that is where Grizz's talents truly lay, he is one of those people who have the ability to watch, learn, addapt and absorb the skills of others he flies with/against and then mutate those skillz to fit into his own style of play. (i watched him do this while he flew with m00t, SkyRock and other good sticks when he first joined the Muppet's, so this is not an unfounded or unsupported statement) he is not a one trick pony, watch him some time and look for the constant changes in style that he uses. you may find yourself watching and then naming the pilots that you see.

well anyways, ack is a damn fine 38 jockie, but he refuses to fly outside of his comfort zone and then talks smack about those that he beats. not much broadbased skill there in my opinion. he refuses to use the 109, and from what i understand most other planes, always duels in his chosen ride, thus its never an equal fight because you as his opponent must always meet him at his advantage. Grizz on the other hand will fly anywhere at any alt in any ride, i have never heard of him refusing no matter how bizarr the plane choice.

finally, and i think most importantly, if you duel Grizz and check your mouth and your attitude at the door he will make sure you have a fun time and if there is something you want to learn he will do his best to teach you. but if you go in and you choose to act like a punk.....well lets just say that your quality of fun is all in your hands.

Well, I am not sure when exactly the punch line of the troll will come out, but I will play along for a bit  :lol

I am too lazy so please don't write this match again.  Three points:

1) You have not fought every one so there is no way for you (or me) to know who is or was or could be the best at their time.
2) You are assuming that the only one able to adapt and change during a 10 day duel will be Grizz.
3) I have fought both of them and a few others you probably never met.  Like Nomak or whildething for example.  If I was going to make a list, he would not make the top all time 10.  But again, he is really good and that is just one mans opinion.

A lot more, but lets see where the troll leads first  ;)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 09, 2010, 12:27:07 PM
Well, I am not sure when exactly the punch line of the troll will come out, but I will play along for a bit  :lol

I am too lazy so please don't write this match again.  Three points:

1) You have not fought every one so there is no way for you (or me) to know who is or was or could be the best at their time.
2) You are assuming that the only one able to adapt and change during a 10 day duel will be Grizz.
3) I have fought both of them and a few others you probably never met.  Like Nomak or whildething for example.  If I was going to make a list, he would not make the top all time 10.  But again, he is really good and that is just one mans opinion.

A lot more, but lets see where the troll leads first  ;)

But you've never really fought me since most of our fights only last two turns.   :O
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 321BAR on December 09, 2010, 12:31:10 PM
what about that shawk guy.  He has consistently ranked top (or near top) slot in game for the past several years, yet no one seems to refer to him as a great stick?
just because you are number one on the score board doesnt mean you are the best pilot in the game... SHawk is certainly up there but i personally would put others before him in the listings. Same idea with Pacerr. They go for the number one slot but because they are low scoring in every slot (fighter, bomber, attack, and vehicle) doesnt mean that they are the best at each score type. An easy way to get from the 1000s in both GV and Bomber is to blow up a town or two. Kills rarely matter in those fields because everyone goes for the kills. The secret to having a good score in either category is to blow a few towns up and get a few kills here and there (dont forget to capture 3 or 4 bases with both goons and M3s) suddenly your score is down to 10-40 in both GV and Bomber. Fighter it is pure kills/death and kills/sortie and kills/hour. Attack is similar to fighter. but even then some of the higher scoring flyers actually dont know ACM down to a science but they know how to live and land.

P.S. i am not saying every high scoring flyer is like this. i am saying that you cannot call all of them good. I am also not taking away from SHawk/Pacerr being good flyers (they are just not in my opinion the BEST flyers)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 09, 2010, 12:46:22 PM
SHawk is definitely good.  Good SA, wavers on the side of caution, great aim, good acms, good supporting cast.  But when it comes to fighting 1v1 he is a one trick pony, Triple Immelman, hang on your prop in the sun, if that don't work the fight is over.  Probably in the top 40 or so.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 09, 2010, 12:49:45 PM
But you've never really fought me since most of our fights only last two turns.   :O

That's true.  But that was because I was 15mph faster than you, if I remember correctly.  Are you saying you'd last longer if the speed was equal?  See, selective memory works both ways.  If you want to count the face shooting err 1 degree deflection shots after a 2 year break lets count the ones before that too?  When would you like history to begin?  

Really, claiming you are better than people you never fought and know they have been off the game for a long long time is kind of arrogant don't you think?  You don't see them here making any statements do you?  I am sorry my opinion hurt your feelings but they were better.  One well aimed tater does not change that.

You will find out eventually like the others, that if you have to start threads or talk about how good you are, you are not going to be around for too long.  The game will become very frustrating since there will always be someone better in any given day.  TJ got to where you are in a few weeks.  How long did it take you?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yeager on December 09, 2010, 12:52:16 PM
Do a BBS search foo  :lol
wha'chew talkin bout WILLITH  :banana:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 321BAR on December 09, 2010, 12:53:16 PM
SHawk is definitely good.  Good SA, wavers on the side of caution, great aim, good acms, good supporting cast.  But when it comes to fighting 1v1 he is a one trick pony, Triple Immelman, hang on your prop in the sun, if that don't work the fight is over.  Probably in the top 40 or so.
from what ive heard and seen this statement you wrote is a good summary of how he is. ive never personally had any 1vs1 against him yet
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 09, 2010, 12:59:48 PM
That's true.  But that was because I was 15mph faster than you, if I remember correctly.  Are you saying you'd last longer if the speed was equal?  See, selective memory works both ways.  If you want to count the face shooting err 1 degree deflection shots after a 2 year break lets count the ones before that too?  When would you like history to begin?  

Gheesh don't get so serious Ded, I am just trolling you.  :)
Sry but I take front quarter shots in my duels, if you don't like it, then don't give me a front quarter shot or try to force it into a head on situation just so I'll hold fire.  That's lame!:lol

Really, claiming you are better than people you never fought and know they have been off the game for a long long time is kind of arrogant don't you think?  You don't see them here making any statements do you?  I am sorry my opinion hurt your feelings but they were better.  One well aimed tater does not change that.

Well of course they were better, everything was better 8 years ago, and nothing will ever be able to compare to that golden era again, that has already been concluded here on the bbs.

You will find out eventually like the others, that if you have to start threads or talk about how good you are, you are not going to be around for too long.  The game will become very frustrating since there will always be someone better in any given day.

Who started any thread?  You guys are the ones that get your panties in a bunch over this stuff.

TJ got to where you are in a few weeks.  How long did it take you?

TJ got good in a few weeks?  That's news to me.

After I got my pedals it took me about 6 months or so.  When we used to fight a couple years ago when you always edged me, I was using keyboard rudders and an St290 walmart joystick.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 09, 2010, 01:05:40 PM
Gheesh don't get so serious Ded, I am just trolling you.  :)
Sry but I take front quarter shots in my duels, if you don't like it, then don't give me a front quarter shot or try to force it into a head on situation just so I'll hold fire.  That's lame!:lol

Funny, I could say the same thing.  Only one of us is holding fire since the fights are for fun, remember?  :neener:

Quote
Well of course they were better, everything was better 8 years ago, and nothing will ever be able to compare to that golden era again, that has already been concluded here on the bbs.
Well, we finally agree!

Quote
Who started any thread?  You guys are the ones that get your panties in a bunch over this stuff.
Don't know to tell you the truth.  I am just responding to the troll

Quote
TJ got good in a few weeks?  That's news to me.

After I got my pedals it took me about 6 months or so.  When we used to fight a couple years ago when you always edged me, I was using keyboard rudders and an St290 walmart joystick.
Ahh, makes sense.  I hear Levi was using a one button mouse back then  :neener:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 09, 2010, 01:20:21 PM
Nobody vulches better than SHawk.

what about that shawk guy.  He has consistently ranked top (or near top) slot in game for the past several years, yet no one seems to refer to him as a great stick?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 09, 2010, 01:24:19 PM
Well, my hat's off to the latest, greatest generation of virtual pilots.  If you guys are even half as good as you insist on telling everyone, then you no doubt represent the vanguard of a new, never-before-witnessed era in pretend WW2 air combat awesomeness.

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: bustr on December 09, 2010, 01:48:29 PM
DeadF,

I seem to remember you really liking that La5 in AW2. You sure you are not really Grizz's dad?...... ;)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 09, 2010, 01:50:16 PM
Well, my hat's off to the latest, greatest generation of virtual pilots.  If you guys are even half as good as you insist on telling everyone, then you no doubt represent the vanguard of a new, never-before-witnessed era in pretend WW2 air combat awesomeness.


Drop in sometime, we'll show you some new tricks.   :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ardy123 on December 09, 2010, 01:54:16 PM
you realize this thread had become beyond stupid.... a bunch of top sticks arguing who are the top sticks.....

Its like if Warren Buffet and Bill Gates got into an argument about being rich...

I'm not rich, I only have 35 billion, you have 50 billion. No, the Carols Helu is the has more than you... you just like to sling your 50 billion in front of the press with your foundation...


psst,, your all fluff'n good, who cares who thinks who is 'better', its meaningless. When your very good, its more about who misses the first shot than anything else.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 321BAR on December 09, 2010, 02:05:20 PM
you realize this thread had become beyond stupid.... a bunch of top sticks arguing who are the top sticks.....

Its like if Warren Buffet and Bill Gates got into an argument about being rich...

I'm not rich, I only have 35 billion, you have 50 billion. No, the Carols Helu is the has more than you... you just like to sling your 50 billion in front of the press with your foundation...


psst,, your all fluffluff'n good, who cares who thinks who is 'better', its meaningless. When your very good, its more about who misses the first shot than anything else.

shhh... dont tell em that! its funny listening to their tirades :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 09, 2010, 02:31:05 PM
How about we unperk everything in EW & MW?

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 09, 2010, 02:53:02 PM
How about we unperk everything in EW & MW?



How about you dont hijack a good hijack?  :rofl
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: waystin2 on December 09, 2010, 03:20:01 PM
How about we unperk everything in EW & MW?



LOL Touche... :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: katanaso on December 09, 2010, 03:37:47 PM
Well, my hat's off to the latest, greatest generation of virtual pilots.  If you guys are even half as good as you insist on telling everyone, then you no doubt represent the vanguard of a new, never-before-witnessed era in pretend WW2 air combat awesomeness.

:lol

mir

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 09, 2010, 03:43:14 PM
 :x

How about you dont hijack a good hijack?  :rofl

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 09, 2010, 04:00:04 PM
Drex has been up and about a bit lately.  I got him a couple times while the rust was showing.  It's been ugly since.  What I like is he generally is low and looking for a fight in that Spit IX of his.  Agent, unless the crowd has irked himto the point of getting frustrated, fights the same way.  Look low and there he is on the deck looking for a fight.

Good fun, even if I get the chop more then half the time :)

Yeah, I've seen him a lot at nights and been flying with him on a couple of occasions and even got lucky one night and caught him on the opposite side for what turned out to be some excellent P-38J vs. Spitfire Mk X fights.  There is another good Spitfire X driver that I've run into, BEAST.  Never seen him before but I suspect he's a shade of someone but still a good stick and good fight, another one that makes you work for the kill.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yeager on December 09, 2010, 04:25:30 PM
you realize this thread had become beyond stupid.... a bunch of top sticks arguing who are the top sticks.....
A good bowel cleansing is just what the forums needed.  Its been too long yay ;)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 09, 2010, 04:29:56 PM
Don't Fm2's outturn most aircraft in the game?

You suggesting an FM2 is a better bird then the 109K4 or 262? 
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 09, 2010, 04:31:22 PM
Well, my hat's off to the latest, greatest generation of virtual pilots.  If you guys are even half as good as you insist on telling everyone, then you no doubt represent the vanguard of a new, never-before-witnessed era in pretend WW2 air combat awesomeness.



We do seem to have established that there are at least 2 squads full of self proclaimed top 5 pilots in the game.  Not sure how that math works out, but you get the idea :)

How's life treating you Todd?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 09, 2010, 04:50:00 PM
You suggesting an FM2 is a better bird then the 109K4 or 262? 

No, I'm saying that it outturns practically everything in the game.  Make your own deductions from that.   :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 09, 2010, 05:00:15 PM
That sounds like what you said! 

No, I'm saying that it outturns practically everything in the game.  Make your own deductions from that.   :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Delirium on December 09, 2010, 06:03:09 PM
Well, my hat's off to the latest, greatest generation of virtual pilots.  If you guys are even half as good as you insist on telling everyone, then you no doubt represent the vanguard of a new, never-before-witnessed era in pretend WW2 air combat awesomeness.

You haven't changed a bit.

 :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 09, 2010, 06:08:33 PM
wow this thread has gone full blown retard meltdown hasn't it!!???

my point, my only point was i thought very simple. i never said Grizz was the greatest of our time or anytime. i said he has talent and skill in PLAYING this game. my point was that those mutts who were insulting and degrading him had no right or reason to do so. Grizz is skilled Grizz is talented and he deserves to be acknowledged as being so.

i have not fought every player who ever was and will not likely fight every player who ever will be, so i reserve my statements to those i have fought and/or watched fight others. my only comment towards the talents of any others was to say that ack ack had no standing to talk down to Grizz because he almost never fights/duels outside of HIS comfort zone were as Grizz will fight anywhere any alt any plane.

my statement of facts as i have seen them were not intended nor should they have insulted anyone. i have a simple policy of life, if your truth hurts when spoken aloud by another then quit whining and change your reality!!!! if you act in a specific manner then don't take offence when someone points out the facts of your behavior, ack ack did made no mention of my statement so i must conclude that my statement, although not likely 100% positive was close enough to the truth that he was comfortable with it as being an accurate portrait of him, proof of this being that he did not turn his razor shape tongue/typing fingers on me in dispute.

to all of you who mentioned wonderful stories of yesteryear with all your glamorous gods of the sky taking on multiple enemy cons attacking him with advantage and him turning the tide and winning.......well if i was like you I'm sure i would just say "they suck and I'm not much impressed because i did not see these things first hand. see from my personal perspective i have watched INK (known as mortise JETSOM and a few other names) while flying the Hurri IIc engage many (I'm talking over 10) enemy cons and twist and turn his way to killing multiple of the B&Zers before being killed himself. i have also watched him engage again in the Hurri IIc 5 and 6 cons and destroy most if not all of them before egressing to land his out of ammo ride. if his targeting skillz were better i would be really hard pressed to think of anyone in this game that could beat him consistently. but this in my opinion does not make him the greatest, it just makes him damn good and deserving of being respected as a player in this game for his talents.

by the way if i was his attorney Ded you would already have been served with a gag order!!!!  :neener:  :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 09, 2010, 06:17:57 PM
Where does all this anger come from?

(http://facepwn.com/posters/DEFEAT2.jpg)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 09, 2010, 06:53:26 PM
No, I'm saying that it outturns practically everything in the game.  Make your own deductions from that.   :aok

So my mentioning Slapshot and his FM2 has anything to do with it's turning ability how? You suggesting that the plane makes him better?  My point like the other guys I mentioned were that they take on all comers and can usually be found down low.  I didn't name my top 5, just guys  who impress me :aok

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 09, 2010, 08:47:28 PM
So my mentioning Slapshot and his FM2 has anything to do with it's turning ability how? You suggesting that the plane makes him better?  My point like the other guys I mentioned were that they take on all comers and can usually be found down low.  I didn't name my top 5, just guys  who impress me :aok

You mentioned the FM2, I mentioned that it practically outturns everything.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 09, 2010, 09:57:48 PM
You mentioned the FM2, I mentioned that it practically outturns everything.

LOL, OK makes perfect sense :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 09, 2010, 11:56:42 PM
LOL, OK makes perfect sense :aok

Are we going to see a "FM2 IS OVER MODELED!" thread in the future?   :D


ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Banshee7 on December 10, 2010, 12:03:35 AM
Grizz, I've been meaning to ask you, do you have the films from our only DA meet?  A looooong time ago, where I beat you 5-0?  Just curious, but I need those so I can reminisce on the times before you got really, really good.


Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 08:07:46 AM
Grizz, I've been meaning to ask you, do you have the films from our only DA meet?  A looooong time ago, where I beat you 5-0?  Just curious, but I need those so I can reminisce on the times before you got really, really good.


I don't think so but we can go make some more films if you'd like.  :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 08:11:46 AM
Are we going to see a "FM2 IS OVER MODELED!" thread in the future?   :D


ack-ack

Hah.  I would also put spit9s, p40s, and brewsters into the same category.  It's not really a threat since it a pretty slow and you can just extend away from it when it turns circles around you, but it's not like you are really accomplishing much by outturning late war planes in a plane that should outturn late war planes.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 10, 2010, 08:24:08 AM
Hah.  I would also put spit9s, p40s, and brewsters into the same category.  It's not really a threat since it a pretty slow and you can just extend away from it when it turns circles around you, but it's not like you are really accomplishing much by outturning late war planes in a plane that should outturn late war planes.

Read the bolded part.  It makes the rest of what you write look dumb and contradictory.



Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Kazaa on December 10, 2010, 08:31:48 AM
<S> Levi, shouldn't you be levelling to 85 right about now? :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 08:42:49 AM
Read the bolded part.  It makes the rest of what you write look dumb and contradictory.


 :lol
Allow me to expand since you obviously are feeling nit picky and close minded.  It is only a threat against anyone willing to let themselves get killed by it.  If you try to outturn a turny bird when it starts to look futile, you are just committing suicide.

I'm sure your spit5 back in the day was incredibly deadly, but it's hilarious thinking that I would ever let myself get killed by a spit5/spit9 in an LW ride that has speed and climb advantages over it.  It would probably just be a stalemate until I finally landed my shot.

So basically if you fly a turny bird, you get kills on those dumb enough to fight you on your terms and trick people dumb enough to fly in front of your guns in obvious setups.  Not much more to it.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 10, 2010, 08:55:09 AM
I'm sure your spit5 back in the day was incredibly deadly, but it's hilarious thinking that I would ever let myself get killed by a spit5/spit9 in an LW ride that has speed and climb advantages over it.  It would probably just be a stalemate until I finally landed my shot.

So basically if you fly a turny bird, you get kills on those dumb enough to fight you on your terms and trick people dumb enough to fly in front of your guns in obvious setups.  Not much more to it.

This was always the case.  This is your nouveau style of flying, to do what players were doing back in beta when flying 109s/190s against Spits and other better turning planes?

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Urchin on December 10, 2010, 09:06:32 AM
I think I will always remember one fight we had in the ma lev.  I was in an a5 and you were in your spit.  I knew it was you before we engaged so I managedto surprise you off the merge.  We merged cold headon, you went vertical to immelman and so did I. The reason I will always remember it is because I surprised you and I could actually tell...  I had chopped throttle before the merge and I ended up nearly saddled up on you...  then you jerked around into a spiral climb and nailed me after I stalled out.  But for one shining moment I knew I had you lol.  Honest to god I think I'll always remember that... oh and for the record...  Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: captain1ma on December 10, 2010, 09:12:00 AM
the Jets in the AVA are unperked this week. try em out!  :D

yes grizz, this is a shameless plug for the AVA!   :neener:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 09:16:15 AM
This was always the case.  This is your nouveau style of flying, to do what players were doing back in beta when flying 109s/190s against Spits and other better turning planes?

I was moreso referring to how to fight vet heroes flying turny planes.  I don't really have a particular style, it varies too much based on the particular circumstance.  I certainly would never get sucked into a fight I can't win against a spit5 though.  If you ever come back, I'd enjoy seeing how an aces high god sucks me into such a losing battle, but I'm sure if you do it will be in shades anyways.   :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 10, 2010, 09:41:23 AM
If you ever come back, I'd enjoy seeing how an aces high god sucks me into such a losing battle, but I'm sure if you do it will be in shades anyways.   :aok

"Aces High Gods" would lose that fight just about every time to a semi-competent pilot who has a better plane with more E, or in the very least they would stalemate until the pilot in the lesser plane gets picked, grows bored, or makes a mistake.  Certainly, all things being equal, the guy in the better plane with E should win.

What you're saying is just very basic stuff, though I suspect you're trying to couch it as something new and exciting.  Folks have been doing what you describe since beta and since even before Aces High (there were lots of great E fighters in Air Warrior).
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 10, 2010, 09:44:58 AM
I think I will always remember one fight we had in the ma lev.  I was in an a5 and you were in your spit.  I knew it was you before we engaged so I managedto surprise you off the merge.  We merged cold headon, you went vertical to immelman and so did I. The reason I will always remember it is because I surprised you and I could actually tell...  I had chopped throttle before the merge and I ended up nearly saddled up on you...  then you jerked around into a spiral climb and nailed me after I stalled out.  But for one shining moment I knew I had you lol.  Honest to god I think I'll always remember that... oh and for the record...  Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Hey, Urchin!  We had some great, memorable fights over the years.  Didn't I cut my teeth in the Tempest against you in some 1v1s?  Those fights were extremely helpful for learning its positives and negatives - mostly its negatives that night for me.

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 10, 2010, 09:50:08 AM

by the way if i was his attorney Ded you would already have been served with a gag order!!!!  :neener:  :D

Damit, stop typing so match.  My ADD does not allow me to read all this and understand it.  However, I never said attorney.  Someone else did.  I said minister of propaganda  :old:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 10, 2010, 09:53:19 AM
Hah.  I would also put spit9s, p40s, and brewsters into the same category.  It's not really a threat since it a pretty slow and you can just extend away from it when it turns circles around you, but it's not like you are really accomplishing much by outturning late war planes in a plane that should outturn late war planes.

I agree, the real accomplishment would be to out run slow lanes with a late war plane that should out run them  :old:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 09:53:54 AM
"Aces High Gods" would lose that fight just about every time to a semi-competent pilot who has a better plane with more E, or in the very least they would stalemate until the pilot in the lesser plane gets picked, grows bored, or makes a mistake.  Certainly, all things being equal, the guy in the better plane with E should win.

What you're saying is just very basic stuff, though I suspect you're trying to couch it as something new and exciting.  Folks have been doing what you describe since beta and since even before Aces High (there were lots of great E fighters in Air Warrior).

Of course it is basic stuff, that's the point, and why you can never be considered a world beater by flying a turny bird in the LW.  You seem to have me sized up quite well, considering you haven't played the game in years.  Hopefully you can return soon and show me the ways of the old guard.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 10, 2010, 09:57:11 AM
So, who missed Skyrock?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 10, 2010, 10:00:47 AM
Of course it is basic stuff, that's the point, and why you can never be considered a world beater by flying a turny bird in the LW.  You seem to have me sized up quite well, considering you haven't played the game in years.  Hopefully you can return soon and show me the ways of the old guard.

Never be considered a "world beater" by whom?  You?  Why would I want to be?  Just fly and have fun and worry less about what others think and more about what you enjoy doing.  It's your money after all.

What's sad is that I'm showing you the way of the "old guard" right now, and it's flying right over your head.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 10:04:09 AM
I could care less.  If I cared what anyone thought, I wouldn't be calling out the gods.

Back to the original point, turny birds are easy mode.

Thank you for the much needed distraction on this dreary friday morning of work though.   :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dead Man Flying on December 10, 2010, 10:07:28 AM
I could care less.  If I cared what anyone thought, I wouldn't be calling out the gods.

Of course you care, that's exactly why you're calling out the "gods."  This entire thread is an exercise in self-inflation because you desperately want others to think you're on par with some of the folks who played the game well 5+ years ago.  You can't even throw out a compliment to someone without a caveat.  Is your ego that fragile?

Quote
Back to the original point, turny birds are easy mode.

Is this the new part?  I remember folks whining about that back in Air Warrior.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 10:16:47 AM
Of course you care, that's exactly why you're calling out the "gods."  This entire thread is an exercise in self-inflation because you desperately want others to think you're on par with some of the more folks who played the game well 5+ years ago.  You can't even throw out a compliment to someone without a caveat.  Is your ego that fragile?

Is this the new part?  I remember folks whining about that back in Air Warrior.


Lol, could care less, I'm just trolling you.  If you want to sign up for an account and get your butt whipped in your own plane though, feel free anytime.  :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 10, 2010, 10:17:30 AM
I could care less.  If I cared what anyone thought, I wouldn't be calling out the gods.



 :lol yeah, but from a safe distance ehh?  You are calling some one out after a 4 year break?  That is awesome  :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 10, 2010, 10:18:34 AM
Lol, could care less, I'm just trolling you.  If you want to sign up for an account and get your butt whipped in your own plane though, feel free anytime.  :aok

And so GrizzRock was born  :neener:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Kazaa on December 10, 2010, 10:21:11 AM
Grizz, you're doing it wrong FFS. Trolls don't admit to being trolls.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 10:22:33 AM
Grizz, you're doing it wrong FFS. Trolls don't admit to being trolls.

It's a double layered troll Kazaa, admitting to the first one just unveils a 2nd layer.  Or maybe it is a triple layer since I just admitted it was a double layer?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 10:23:55 AM
Grizz, you're doing it wrong FFS. Trolls don't admit to being trolls.

Actually I'm pretty certain I could dominate levi in spits, but I would love to see you curb stomp him in spits.  Now THAT would be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dirtdart on December 10, 2010, 10:28:15 AM

Back to the original point, turny birds are easy mode.


A year ago I committed to flying the K4 almost exclusively.  I would like to think that I am a better stick because of this.  Spits etc.... are fun and relaxing to fly, but hell who does not embrace a challenge? 
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 10, 2010, 11:54:03 AM
Lol, could care less, I'm just trolling you.  If you want to sign up for an account and get your butt whipped in your own plane though, feel free anytime.  :aok

LOL Grizz, you are spending way too much time hiding behind the 'I'm just trolling" line. 

I guess we'll just have to concede you are the bestest ever! :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Kazaa on December 10, 2010, 12:13:12 PM
Actually I'm pretty certain I could dominate levi in spits, but I would love to see you curb stomp him in spits.  Now THAT would be fun to watch.

If I ever got the chance to take Levi on 1v1 I wouldn't be out to "curb stomp" him, infact I would find it a great honour and a good experience to learn from one of the best sticks to ever grace the skies of AH.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 12:13:52 PM
If I ever got the chance to take Levi on 1v1 I wouldn't be out to "curb stomp" him, infact I would find it a great honour and a good experience to learn from one of the best.

 :lol
You have a promising career in public relations Kazaa.   :salute
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Banshee7 on December 10, 2010, 12:17:09 PM
I don't think so but we can go make some more films if you'd like.  :D

If I was still subscribed I would take you up on that.  When I get back, I'm going to need some help!

You actually proved me wrong, Grizz.  I figured you would make something up about it never happening :).  I knew you loved me!!

#S#



Banshee7
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 12:20:47 PM
If I was still subscribed I would take you up on that.  When I get back, I'm going to need some help!

You actually proved me wrong, Grizz.  I figured you would make something up about it never happening :).  I knew you loved me!!

#S#

Banshee7

Oh it certainly happened.  The shame and humility it brought to my name and cartoon family forced me into a Rocky-esque training regiment   :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Banshee7 on December 10, 2010, 12:24:41 PM
I was in total disbelief myself when it happened.  I labeled myself a "C" word and quit playing forever  :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 12:50:27 PM
LOL Grizz, you are spending way too much time hiding behind the 'I'm just trolling" line. 

I guess we'll just have to concede you are the bestest ever! :)

What else would you call it?  The entertainment this provides me during an otherwise bland Friday at work is as fun as picking your P38G with a jet.  :eek:  :rock
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Vudak on December 10, 2010, 01:16:41 PM
What else would you call it?  The entertainment this provides me during an otherwise bland Friday at work is as fun as picking your P38G with a jet.  :eek:  :rock

You guys aren't doing a very good job of this entertainment business.  The past few days, there's been a reply every other minute.  Now I have to get paid to actually accomplish something.  Somebody run with dirtdart's spit comment before the day is lost  :mad:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dirtdart on December 10, 2010, 01:29:08 PM
Somebody run with dirtdart's spit comment before the day is lost  :mad:

Lol... 
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 10, 2010, 01:50:13 PM
So, who missed Skyrock?

<crickets>



wrongway
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: waystin2 on December 10, 2010, 02:02:03 PM
Definitely time for Cap1's toe pictures... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: CptTrips on December 10, 2010, 02:05:59 PM


My carrot is bigger than all of yours put together!

Its long, pointy, and orange.

And the chicks dig-it.

  :rofl,
Wab
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SunBat on December 10, 2010, 02:06:16 PM
(http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/complications_feet/images/hammervector.gif)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: bustr on December 10, 2010, 02:11:01 PM
Funny how Levi was the Grizz of AW and of AH until recently and then the new and improved Grizz/Levi is here arguing with his shade account Levi ver. 1.1 to keep us entertained while HiTech is knitting us a new game for Christmass. Levi/deadf in AW flew exactly like Grizz does now in AHII.

Levi weren't you a college kid in AW?? You flew Aland alot in spits. You always came in high, smoked everyone and landed strings of kills with half your plane shot to pieces. It always seemed like his only reason to be in the game was to ruin your day by showing up and spanking everyone around you while you had a string of hard earned kills to take home and land.

But then AW was just an arkady cartoonish shootemup compaired to AH and it's superior coad and players........... :old:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: katanaso on December 10, 2010, 02:36:39 PM
Funny how Levi was the Grizz of AW and of AH until recently and then the new and improved Grizz/Levi is here arguing with his shade account Levi ver. 1.1 to keep us entertained while HiTech is knitting us a new game for Christmass. Levi/deadf in AW flew exactly like Grizz does now in AHII.

Levi weren't you a college kid in AW?? You flew Aland alot in spits. You always came in high, smoked everyone and landed strings of kills with half your plane shot to pieces. It always seemed like his only reason to be in the game was to ruin your day by showing up and spanking everyone around you while you had a string of hard earned kills to take home and land.

But then AW was just an arkady cartoonish shootemup compaired to AH and it's superior coad and players........... :old:

He flew a 38 as +Dead in The Nomads for quite some time, as well as DeadF.  He also flew for B-land when he joined The Nomads.


mir


Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 03:50:33 PM
And so GrizzRock was born  :neener:

<---Owns You.  :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 10, 2010, 04:01:44 PM
<---Owns You.  :D

 :neener:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: caldera on December 10, 2010, 04:24:35 PM
I could care less.  If I cared what anyone thought, I wouldn't be calling out the gods.

Back to the original point, turny birds are easy mode.

Thank you for the much needed distraction on this dreary friday morning of work though.   :aok

Roping turny birds in K-4 is hard though, right?
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on December 10, 2010, 04:46:41 PM
Roping turny birds in K-4 is hard though, right?

No, but hitting them is, as evident by the lack of skilled K4 pilots in the game.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 10, 2010, 05:30:14 PM
He flew a 38 as +Dead in The Nomads for quite some time, as well as DeadF.  He also flew for B-land when he joined The Nomads.


mir




Seems like we flew for every letter at one point or another :) 

He flew and talked a mean Yak back in those days too. 
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Silat on December 10, 2010, 07:44:55 PM
He flew a 38 as +Dead in The Nomads for quite some time, as well as DeadF.  He also flew for B-land when he joined The Nomads.


mir




I taught him everything he knows. One other thing he never went over 5k as the thin air above that alt was bad for his skin.
And he sucked.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Kazaa on December 10, 2010, 07:48:01 PM
Silat is sexy.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 10, 2010, 08:26:16 PM
I taught him everything he knows. One other thing he never went over 5k as the thin air above that alt was bad for his skin.
And he sucked.

Bout time you showed up!  Discussion on squad last night was whether you'd finally been sent to the home as we'd not seen you up in while :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 12, 2010, 04:15:24 AM
ack ack did made no mention of my statement so i must conclude that my statement, although not likely 100% positive was close enough to the truth that he was comfortable with it as being an accurate portrait of him, proof of this being that he did not turn his razor shape tongue/typing fingers on me in dispute.



Actually I've pretty much ignored your posts in this thread because you really don't know how I fly or fight and all you base it on is what you hear from others as they whine on Channel 200 after I've shot them down.

I'll let you go now because I'm sure you're late for your weekly meeting of the Grizz FanBoi Club  :D


ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Simaril on December 12, 2010, 09:38:35 AM
I was in at the tail end of the Blue Knights' run, and I gotta say that I've never seen anything like the "just for fun" films they posted.

Like upping Vals and flying in the mud just for giggles, and Levi landing  - what was it - 8? - kills, no rearm.

Like having the entire squad LAND their planes on a cruiser, undamaged.


If you want to say those things aren't impressive, then post your own film doing the same. We'll all wait!.....But what impressed me more than anything was that they seemed to be playing purely for the fun of it. They'd go out and reap a harvest of kills, mostly in the mud and at disadvantage, and then they'd giggle and find some more. Any plane, any situation, disadvantaged cause it was more fun for THEM.

I'll never be a great, and in fact (looking back) what drove me out of the game was the frustration of trying and trying but not reaching my goals. Those guys didn't even know I existed, as far as I know (though I did have some fun with Morpheus and Slap later on). So I don't have a horse in this race.

But it seems to me that, like Guppy said, those guys who really ARE great don't have to say a word. It's just obvious to anyone who sees them operate. And the corollary is this: If you gotta blow your horn, you're probably producing a fair amount of hot air.  
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 12, 2010, 10:59:14 AM
Actually I've pretty much ignored your posts in this thread because you really don't know how I fly or fight and all you base it on is what you hear from others as they whine on Channel 200 after I've shot them down.

I'll let you go now because I'm sure you're late for your weekly meeting of the Grizz FanBoi Club  :D


ack-ack

so you ingnored me???? and how many days later did you get around to sneaking this in???? ack ack your a goof!!!  :D

i know how you fly from watching you as well as hearing of your exploits, am i an ack-ack expert? nope, dont know you as a person and your not a squaddie so i dont care enough about you to be bothered to pay much attention to you. but you are a very talented player so when im in the area of you i will watch and learn when possible.

but of course nothing in your post refutes what i said, you just made a very weak attempt to undermine my statement by insulting and undermining me or my access to information. thus i reiterate what i said before and still stand by it as the truth as i know it.

As i stated before, Grizz is far from one of my favorite people, we are not what you would call "friends", but this does not deminish his skill as a player.

i have more self respect than most so i will not allow personality conflicts between me and another to sway or taint my opinion regarding that persons talent or skill in any particular thing. if a person is good at something i will call it so, even if i hate that person, if they suck i will state it even if that person is my friend. if i lie based upon personal opinion then i cheapen myself an my personal intergrity by allowing emotion to control intelect.

so i guess my point is that all of you who would consider Grizz to not be a very talented and skilled player at this game are either ignorant to the facts and just spouting off at the mouth because you like being part of the picking horde, or you know better but are intentionally choosing instead to allow your personal integrity to be corrupted by your dislike of him as a person, for whatever personal reason(s) you may have.

you wanna talk trash about Grizz then have some integrity and self respect and do it over something based in fact(s), not by trying to take away from him his talents and skills in this game that are both respectable and were well earned.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 12, 2010, 11:32:26 AM
So about that EW/MW unperk thing.......................

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Gixer on December 12, 2010, 04:10:18 PM
(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Food/eating-popcorn-03.gif)


<S>...-Gixer
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 12, 2010, 05:16:40 PM
so you ingnored me???? and how many days later did you get around to sneaking this in???? ack ack your a goof!!!  :D

i know how you fly from watching you as well as hearing of your exploits, am i an ack-ack expert? nope, dont know you as a person and your not a squaddie so i dont care enough about you to be bothered to pay much attention to you. but you are a very talented player so when im in the area of you i will watch and learn when possible.

but of course nothing in your post refutes what i said, you just made a very weak attempt to undermine my statement by insulting and undermining me or my access to information. thus i reiterate what i said before and still stand by it as the truth as i know it.

As i stated before, Grizz is far from one of my favorite people, we are not what you would call "friends", but this does not deminish his skill as a player.

i have more self respect than most so i will not allow personality conflicts between me and another to sway or taint my opinion regarding that persons talent or skill in any particular thing. if a person is good at something i will call it so, even if i hate that person, if they suck i will state it even if that person is my friend. if i lie based upon personal opinion then i cheapen myself an my personal intergrity by allowing emotion to control intelect.

so i guess my point is that all of you who would consider Grizz to not be a very talented and skilled player at this game are either ignorant to the facts and just spouting off at the mouth because you like being part of the picking horde, or you know better but are intentionally choosing instead to allow your personal integrity to be corrupted by your dislike of him as a person, for whatever personal reason(s) you may have.

you wanna talk trash about Grizz then have some integrity and self respect and do it over something based in fact(s), not by trying to take away from him his talents and skills in this game that are both respectable and were well earned.

LOL!  You really are offended that I don't think Grizz is the 2nd coming of the AH Christ.  You should go back and read my posts or better yet, have someone that can comprehend read the posts to you.  No one had denied that Grizz has "skill", he is a good pilot I said as much but unlike you, I know the emperor wears no clothes. 

Would it make the pain go away if I was to say that Grizz was the greatest, most uber pilot that has ever graced AH?


ack-ack
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 12, 2010, 06:36:58 PM
LOL!  You really are offended that I don't think Grizz is the 2nd coming of the AH Christ.  You should go back and read my posts or better yet, have someone that can comprehend read the posts to you.  No one had denied that Grizz has "skill", he is a good pilot I said as much but unlike you, I know the emperor wears no clothes. 

Would it make the pain go away if I was to say that Grizz was the greatest, most uber pilot that has ever graced AH?


ack-ack

sorry ack-ack but once again like in many of your postings through out the BBS you are completely inaccurate in your statements. when it comes to technical things about planes specs gv's ect or you skill with computer set ups and repair i will happily defer to your knowledgeable opinions, but when it comes to playing the game or people in general i fear that you must be counted amongst the top 10 trolling trash talking don't know squat except for how to blow his own horn player/poster i have ever read.

i have reread this thread, it wasn't Grizz that started with how great he is as a player (unless you count his comment about the Muppet's in 262's) it was others who brought it up as some form of limp wristed defense against his statements that the OP's original idea was lame. they had nothing going for them, so they like you, attacked the person instead of trying to argue their point based on reason and intelligence. see the funny thing here is that you and Grizz were in agreement about the ridiculousness of the OP.

if you take the time to read back you will find that you were the first to start slinging stones about Grizz and his skill level:

   Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
« Reply #172 on: December 07, 2010, 06:10:57 PM »    Quote

_____________________________ ___________
Quote from: Silat on December 07, 2010, 05:09:24 PM
Shuff I don't think so.. VMPR was a better picker:)


And was the better pilot.

ack-ack

« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 06:39:47 PM by Ack-Ack »    Report to moderator    Logged

_____________________________ ___________


so when it comes to climbing on the leg i would say this was where you started sniffing his ankle.

you were then joined by others who can talk big trash on the BBS but who have never, or cannot because they aren't playing anymore (really the most pathetic of the bunch in my opinion), lived up to proving Grizz to be an inferior pilot. see when everyone was arguing an opinional scenario like the OP originally posted, well then its all hypothetical. but when you took the attack into the area where facts can be prooven and supported by actions, actions i must add that NONE of you have been able to live up to but continue to talk like you can, well then you are being a tard of maximum proportions.

your so great ack then challenge Grizz and live up to your talk. but of course try living up to your mouth outside of your comfort zone, ie not in the 38. if your sooooooo great a stick and Grizz is sooooo over rated then you should be able to best him no matter what the plane or the situation. so challenge him and put up or shut up.....

oh and that goes for all of you that wish to insult Grizz's skill at this game, put your money where your mouth is or sit back down and be quiet. as for those who aren't playing or have been away from the game for an extended period of time, well, you above all others really need to shut it! you above all others have no clue nor any purpose to open your mouth in a conversation about the skill level of someone currently in the game when you ha vent been here in how long? talk about pathetic!!! hahahaha you aren't here to even be challenged to live up to your boasting so you will sit in your corner talking trash?????? how ridiculous a human being can you be???? i suppose your an expert in Kung Fu and many other internet tough guy words. if you cant be challenged to live up to your talk then by all means feel free to shut up and keep your opinions to yourself.

people who have no integrity or self respect, who refuse to deal with facts over fantasy and pathetic jealousy need not speak anymore on this subject, if you cant beat Grizz consistently in any plane in the MA or DA or if your not around to prove that you can, then you have nothing of value to add to this conversation.

learn to respect yourself enough to have the integrity to speak the truth about a person whether you like them or not.......ok life lesson over with.

 :neener:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: SunBat on December 12, 2010, 07:02:44 PM
Ack-Ack has been been quite pissy since I trolled his bellybutton into the ground with the lead computed gunsight thing. Please forgive him. Pain makes people mean and that had to hurt.

Be kind.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 12, 2010, 07:16:09 PM
Ack-Ack has been been quite pissy since I trolled his bellybutton into the ground with the lead computed gunsight thing. Please forgive him. Pain makes people mean and that had to hurt.

Be kind.

ya know Sunbat i totally forgot about your terrorizing him in that thread!!! how unsympathetic of me to trash him in yet another thread so soon after his resent disembowelment at your hands!

i must be getting cruel and uncaring in my old age.

ack-ack im sorry that i held a different opinion of things than you do and that i dared you, no actually i challenged you, to step up and support your attacks on Grizz's skill as a player by DAing him in anything other than your comfort zone.

it was cruel and unfair of me to ask you to respect a players skill for what the are in truth and not to attack him based upon your own personal jealousies and inferiority complexes.

i apologize, i hope you feel better about yourself soon.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 12, 2010, 07:22:52 PM
You guys gotta relax.  Always good to keep in mind who the troller is and who is the trollee as well.  Just cause a person claims to be the first to throw bait into the water doesn't make it true :)

I'd never have believed this thread would last this long too :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 12, 2010, 07:28:08 PM
You guys gotta relax.  Always good to keep in mind who the troller is and who is the trollee as well.  Just cause a person claims to be the first to throw bait into the water doesn't make it true :)

I'd never have believed this thread would last this long too :aok


Guppy!!!

how dare you troll a thread that you started as a troll and from which Grizz me ack-ack and many others have bounced other trollings off of!!!!!

thats just down right wrong!!!!

get out you TROLL!!!!!!

 :D
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on December 12, 2010, 08:23:16 PM
Guppy!!!

how dare you troll a thread that you started as a troll and from which Grizz me ack-ack and many others have bounced other trollings off of!!!!!

thats just down right wrong!!!!

get out you TROLL!!!!!!

 :D

Thank you Flotsom.  My faith in humanity has been restored! :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: uptown on December 12, 2010, 08:52:42 PM
This thread has the potential to put an eye out. (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/sSc_hiding2.gif)


what if Grizz and Levi were the same guy ....wouldn't that make him BiPolar? (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/aFu_ArsenioYell.gif)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Silat on December 13, 2010, 12:22:33 AM
Of course it is basic stuff, that's the point, and why you can never be considered a world beater by flying a turny bird in the LW.  You seem to have me sized up quite well, considering you haven't played the game in years.  Hopefully you can return soon and show me the ways of the old guard.

LoL
Dead isnt old....  :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: doc1kelley on December 13, 2010, 10:19:01 AM
This thread has the potential to put an eye out. (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/sSc_hiding2.gif)


what if Grizz and Levi were the same guy ....wouldn't that make him BiPolar? (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/aFu_ArsenioYell.gif)

Nope!  That would make him somebody with MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder).  My second wife had MPD and it was sometimes good, like going to bed with a different person all the time...roflol  However, sometimes you caught the terror from hell and that was NOT so good. heheheh

All the Best...

   Jay
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Vudak on December 13, 2010, 10:59:19 AM

learn to respect yourself enough to have the integrity to speak the truth about a person whether you like them or not.......ok life lesson over with.


I'm still not buying that you aren't his attorney :D

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Simaril on December 13, 2010, 11:20:27 AM
I'm still not buying that you aren't his attorney :D



Can't be an attorney - he said the word "integrity" without bursting out into laughter...
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: CptTrips on December 13, 2010, 12:02:33 PM
Nope!  That would make him somebody with MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder). 

I think its pronounced "Muppet Personality Disorder".

:cool:,
Wab
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: TheDudeDVant on December 13, 2010, 01:10:41 PM
I think its pronounced "Muppet Personality Disorder".

:cool:,
Wab

lmao  :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: LLogann on December 13, 2010, 01:38:40 PM
Cause if you think about it, if we let everybody up the early war birds for free, it may just generate some interest!!!

 :neener:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 13, 2010, 01:46:52 PM
Cause if you think about it, if we let everybody up the early war birds for free, it may just generate some interest!!!

 :neener:

I hear the AvA is full of people when the 262s are enabled and the fights are awesom.  HT was talking about splitting that arena due to the big numbers.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 68ZooM on December 13, 2010, 02:02:57 PM
unperk everything for a month and see what happens, if it's good then great if not then go back, i would just be curious to see how gameplay would change, equal planes for everyone seems to me would be a equal playing field,  new players coming into this game are at a total disadvantage with the steep learning curve, they get frustrated, which tend to make some not go past the 2 week trial   
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 13, 2010, 02:07:09 PM
unperk everything for a month and see what happens, if it's good then great if not then go back, i would just be curious to see how gameplay would change, equal planes for everyone seems to me would be a equal playing field,  new players coming into this game are at a total disadvantage with the steep learning curve, they get frustrated, which tend to make some not go past the 2 week trial   

Equal planes for everyone would mean that every one is in the same plane.  So, really, an arena with 262s. 

It is a lot easier for a new guy to fly a spit16 than it is to fly a Tempest anyways.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Yeager on December 13, 2010, 03:12:34 PM
Nothing you can do is ever going to make LW not suck.  Just too many people playing, herding together, smack talking, generally being asinine towards each other.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: CptTrips on December 13, 2010, 03:21:12 PM
Nothing you can do is ever going to make LW not suck.  Just too many people playing, herding together, smack talking, generally being asinine towards each other.


Not unlike our BBS.

:rofl,
Wab
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: dedalos on December 13, 2010, 03:22:21 PM
Nothing you can do is ever going to make LW not suck.  Just too many people playing, herding together, smack talking, generally being asinine towards each other.

Makes you want to cry  :cry

 :neener:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: uptown on December 13, 2010, 03:24:35 PM
Nothing you can do is ever going to make LW not suck.  Just too many people playing, herding together, smack talking, generally being asinine towards each other.
I always thought that was the beauty of LW  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Gixer on December 13, 2010, 03:50:46 PM
I always thought that was the beauty of LW  :headscratch:

Maybe that's the appeal to a few throwbacks. Possibly one reason why the subscription numbers have always been so low is that the game is advertised as being WW2 Air Combat Sim etc etc.. Doesn't take long to realise it's just Air Quake with a capture the flag deathmatch attitude to match. Possibly emphasised even more by some squads who's forte and favourite terminology is "seal smacking".

And of course not helped by a score system and posting #1 rankings for the month on the main page. I've always thought that's very counter productive from trying to promote the game as being more missions,squads, team work and strategy focused. It use to be that way inclined up to about 2003 but has leaned more towards Air Quake ever since.



<S>...-Gixer


Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: uptown on December 13, 2010, 03:57:28 PM
 :lol Can't say I disagree with that Gixer   :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Dadsguns on December 13, 2010, 04:02:20 PM
Maybe that's the appeal to a few throwbacks. Possibly one reason why the subscription numbers have always been so low is that the game is advertised as being WW2 Air Combat Sim etc etc.. Doesn't take long to realise it's just Air Quake with a capture the flag deathmatch attitude to match. Possibly emphasised even more by some squads who's forte and favourite terminology is "seal smacking".

And of course not helped by a score system and posting #1 rankings for the month on the main page. I've always thought that's very counter productive from trying to promote the game as being more missions,squads, team work and strategy focused. It use to be that way inclined up to about 2003 but has leaned more towards Air Quake ever since.



<S>...-Gixer




This about accurately reflects what is happening.   :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: uptown on December 13, 2010, 04:12:27 PM
Makes me wonder what the game would have been like if Combat Tour would have materialized. It was sure a disappointment for me when it didn't. I'd much rather be addicted to something like CT then Air Quake.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: 68ZooM on December 13, 2010, 04:20:00 PM
Maybe that's the appeal to a few throwbacks. Possibly one reason why the subscription numbers have always been so low is that the game is advertised as being WW2 Air Combat Sim etc etc.. Doesn't take long to realise it's just Air Quake with a capture the flag deathmatch attitude to match. Possibly emphasised even more by some squads who's forte and favourite terminology is "seal smacking".

And of course not helped by a score system and posting #1 rankings for the month on the main page. I've always thought that's very counter productive from trying to promote the game as being more missions,squads, team work and strategy focused. It use to be that way inclined up to about 2003 but has leaned more towards Air Quake ever since.



<S>...-Gixer



Hammer meets the nail on this one  :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Simaril on December 13, 2010, 04:45:01 PM
This idea has been knocking around for a lot of years - but I gotta wonder if the score pages are the CAUSE of the decried behavior, or simply a response to it.

Seems to me that people are going to compete this way regardless...especially that majority of us with XY chromosomes.

Further seems to me that the biggest issue has been the numbers, pure and simple. When the game has SO many players, it's going to be crowded. And in that crowd we'll be more likely to run into...ummm...dysfunctional folks than we were in the less populated days.

In other words, what we're talking about is what happens naturally when a small town becomes a city.

Least, that's what I think.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: doc1kelley on December 13, 2010, 10:58:08 PM
Maybe that's the appeal to a few throwbacks. Possibly one reason why the subscription numbers have always been so low is that the game is advertised as being WW2 Air Combat Sim etc etc.. Doesn't take long to realise it's just Air Quake with a capture the flag deathmatch attitude to match. Possibly emphasised even more by some squads who's forte and favourite terminology is "seal smacking".

And of course not helped by a score system and posting #1 rankings for the month on the main page. I've always thought that's very counter productive from trying to promote the game as being more missions,squads, team work and strategy focused. It use to be that way inclined up to about 2003 but has leaned more towards Air Quake ever since.



<S>...-Gixer


Now this guy Gixer truely gets it!  :salute

... Just wishing more folks get it too!

All the Best...

   Jay
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: FLOTSOM on December 14, 2010, 07:26:45 AM
Now this guy Gixer truely gets it!  :salute

... Just wishing more folks get it too!

All the Best...

   Jay

well at one time i got it! then i went to the clinic and a kind doctor gave me a shot and i go cured :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Shuffler on December 14, 2010, 04:14:02 PM
Makes me wonder what the game would have been like if Combat Tour would have materialized. It was sure a disappointment for me when it didn't. I'd much rather be addicted to something like CT then Air Quake.
I was very interested in CT also.

It was taking up alot of producton time though. As would any quality game.


For that reason alone I doubt we'll ever see a game like that.

Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: ink on January 01, 2011, 05:47:09 PM
Peeking my nose in a bit........lol.....I remember killing grizz and kappa in a 2vs1.....although the first kill of kappa, he was just watching...I thought he was engaging, he came back with a vengence, so I got to kill him twice in that one sortie :-).....and comming back after a month off and bouncing ack ack twice in a row and givin him a trip to the tower each time......quite easily I must add.....thats it I just made every post in here moot......I am ta uberist of uberistis here.....you all must bow down before your master..........
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: grizz441 on January 01, 2011, 05:54:23 PM
Peeking my nose in a bit........lol.....I remember killing grizz and kappa in a 2vs1.....although the first kill of kappa, he was just watching...I thought he was engaging, he came back with a vengence, so I got to kill him twice in that one sortie :-).....and comming back after a month off and bouncing ack ack twice in a row and givin him a trip to the tower each time......quite easily I must add.....thats it I just made every post in here moot......I am ta uberist of uberistis here.....you all must bow down before your master..........

 :lol
Bastage!!  :aok
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: killnu on January 01, 2011, 07:22:33 PM
so this is what I have been "missing"? 
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: Guppy35 on January 01, 2011, 07:27:05 PM
so this is what I have been "missing"? 

I must admit I had no idea this was going to be the thread that just keeps on giving when I started it :)

Welcome back...again :)
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: killnu on January 02, 2011, 01:21:25 PM
im only back on the boards...wont be back on game for a month or two most likely.
Title: Re: Unperk everything in Latewar
Post by: asleep1 on January 02, 2011, 01:25:37 PM
nope, don't un-perk anything. Makes the game more challenging with perked rides. You have to work for the better rides.