Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: lunatic1 on August 03, 2017, 03:41:31 AM
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if there is 1 plane that should be perked it is the P-47M.it seems to be more of a killer now than it did in AH2. it seems to be able to whip anything in the air, except the 262 and the 163.
I don't know if is just me, I'm not the best pilot in the game but I'm not the worse either.
your ideas please. and please don't flame me, unless you have to. thankyou
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It is like flying a shotgun, but would that that would mean perking the 51, Ki84, spit 16, La7 and yak3?
From the perk GV scaling, you would have a good point to perk more planes since in GVs, the perk level dips down lower in the vehicle pool.
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I am all for perking it for 1 point. The only reason is that it is a rare late war model that made the D's go extinct except for the role of bomb trucks.
I know a guy that says he thinks he heard someone say HT will perk it on the same game patch he is going to perk the 3-gun La7.
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I still smoke them with my B17 turrets just the same... ;)
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
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47s cannot turn...They are worthless in the vert unless they are going mach 6...
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The 51 and ki84 don't need perked, 51 isn't as widely used as it once was and the 84 is a flaming wreck if hit. Spit 16, la7, 47m should have small perks....like 5. Yak3 either needs a small perk or just be a 5 eny plane. I don't think the yak really needs perked because of the limited ammo load. The Star Trek warp motor is another story just like the spit16.
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I am all for perking it for 1 point. The only reason is that it is a rare late war model that made the D's go extinct except for the role of bomb trucks.
I know a guy that says he thinks he heard someone say HT will perk it on the same game patch he is going to perk the 3-gun La7.
You could say the same about the F4U-1A and 1D. The former is used in much the same way as a 47M and far more dangerous.
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You could say the same about the F4U-1A and 1D. The former is used in much the same way as a 47M and far more dangerous.
1a and 1d are both 12 eny. Now i think the 1a should be a 5 eny bird. And a small perk wouldn't be terrible but the 1d is just a bomb truck from a carrier.
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Where is Lusche when you need him? What is the Mary models k/d in comparison to other Low Eny planes? That is the best way to tell if it is due for for a perk or not.
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... it seems to be able to whip anything in the air, except the 262 and the 163....
Not when I fight them. K4 pilot. :salute
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Of all the ENY 5 planes the Mary model had the best non perks k/d ratio last tour. Even better than the Pony, Spit and LA7. Hmmmmmm....
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Of all the ENY 5 planes the Mary model had the best non perks k/d ratio last tour. Even better than the Pony, Spit and LA7. Hmmmmmm....
Well a quarter of them belongs to just one squad :noid
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Aren't they the preferred ride for high altitude bomber interception?
That might skew the numbers a bit.
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Well a quarter of them belongs to just one squad :noid
Kudos to the 56th!
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1a and 1d are both 12 eny. Now i think the 1a should be a 5 eny bird. And a small perk wouldn't be terrible but the 1d is just a bomb truck from a carrier.
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The performance margin between the 1, 1A, and 1D isn't significant enough to justify perking the 1A or 1D. The 1A is only faster than the 1 by a few mph. It does have gains in climb and acceleration, but that's still only enough to put it middle of the pack rather than bottom of the heap. She's certainly the best pure dogfighter of the 1-series Hogs, but the difference isn't all THAT big.
Contrast the -4, which is basically a rocket by comparison.
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-1
if it is perked then all late war rides should be perked.
WTG 56th!
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Yeesh. -1
Wiley.
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The data is there to support the request gentlemen. Lunatic does have a point. The Mary model has separated itself from the other Late War 5 ENY monsters by a respectable margin. At what point is a perk added? Another worthy note is the Dora was only slightly behind the Mary's 1.66 K/D with a 1.63 K/D ratio last tour and was also ahead of the Pony, Spit and LA. Definitely time to lower the ENY on the Dora. Maybe in the 5-8 range?
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The data is there to support the request gentlemen. Lunatic does have a point. The Mary model has separated itself from the other Late War 5 ENY monsters by a respectable margin. At what point is a perk added? Another worthy note is the Dora was only slightly behind the Mary's 1.66 K/D with a 1.63 K/D ratio last tour and was also ahead of the Pony, Spit and LA. Definitely time to lower the ENY on the Dora. Maybe in the 5-8 range?
You likely countered your own point. "At what point is a perk added?" We don't know, and apparently it hasn't exceeded that threshold yet.
It's hardly filling the skies and unbalancing the arena, it's just doing well in the hands of some, and one squad devoted to it in particular. The way they're flying, if they used anything else similarly fast, they'd be putting up the same kinds of numbers. It's not the plane in their case it's the operator.
We have a tendency to focus on A2A fighting an awful lot and forget that ENY is about more than what planes do against other planes. Likely the reason the D9 isn't lower ENY is due to the fact it can't carry ord like most of the lower ENY stuff.
Wiley.
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The data is there to support the request gentlemen. Lunatic does have a point. ...
The data is open to interpretation.
Is Lunatic complaining that he gets too many kills when he flies the P-47M?
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due to the fact it can't carry ord like most of the lower ENY stuff.
It's hardly filling the skies and unbalancing the arena, it's just doing well in the hands of some, and one squad devoted to it in particular. The way they're flying, if they used anything else similarly fast, they'd be putting up the same kinds of numbers. It's not the plane in their case it's the operator.
^^^This^^^
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You likely countered your own point. "At what point is a perk added?" We don't know, and apparently it hasn't exceeded that threshold yet.
It's hardly filling the skies and unbalancing the arena, it's just doing well in the hands of some, and one squad devoted to it in particular. The way they're flying, if they used anything else similarly fast, they'd be putting up the same kinds of numbers. It's not the plane in their case it's the operator.
We have a tendency to focus on A2A fighting an awful lot and forget that ENY is about more than what planes do against other planes. Likely the reason the D9 isn't lower ENY is due to the fact it can't carry ord like most of the lower ENY stuff.
Wiley.
I use the Dora as a role plane. It does carry ords and she is the queen of porkers. Very fast lots of cannons and a 500Kg pr 250Kg bomb. That's a great package for A2G field prep especially considering the speed she has. The K/D is higher than lower ENY planes that do not carry ord. The plane may need an adjustment. It's for HTC to decide I am merely conversing. The operator plane argument is never considered when ENY is adjusted
just the overall plane stats. Individual stats would and even squad stats would vary wildly but the plane usage and overall K/D is telling in this case.
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Perking planes, I believe degrades from the positive marketing aspect of the game for beginners. Brand new players aquire very few perk points in the first few weeks of participation but have to go against.
the A-team with the High End planes, and get shot to pieces, frustrated and I'm certain many quit. I think ENY does what it is basically supposed too, but could use some tweaking. Although with something as complex as this, there are holes in any process. perk points don't keep most veterans from upping a plane. With a steady supply coming in and a mass banked, So maybe perking is not the best solution, changing ENY may be. I went 26 for 7 Yesterday with an F4U1 " ENY25". The losses 3 collisions 2 ditches 2 abshuesses, 1 from a lanc and 1 from a Marauder. And My K/D ration is rarely much more than 1to1. 3 victories were 1 Razorback -11 and 2 Jugs a -40 and an M. Also virtually all my 262 and 234 vics are with P47s and Spit XIVs.
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I use the Dora as a role plane. It does carry ords and she is the queen of porkers. Very fast lots of cannons and a 500Kg pr 250Kg bomb. That's a great package for A2G field prep especially considering the speed she has. The K/D is higher than lower ENY planes that do not carry ord. The plane may need an adjustment. It's for HTC to decide I am merely conversing. The operator plane argument is never considered when ENY is adjusted
just the overall plane stats. Individual stats would and even squad stats would vary wildly but the plane usage and overall K/D is telling in this case.
Wow, my apologies I phrased that badly. I meant the D9 can't carry as much ord as most of the lower ENY stuff. It does have the one bomb but it doesn't have rockets or 2 bomb capability. IMO that makes a big difference.
Regarding the jug though, it's effective but it's not filling the sky. If it's a problem, the LA7's more of one.
Wiley.
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When the 47M was introduced:
(...) On the ordnance, I was torn. Had this plane been introduced as a low level perk plane, I probably would have left the ordnance options available. As an unperked plane, I prefer to confine it to its historical role so as not to make it the definitive 47 in the MA.
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Surprised no one has mentioned the 190D. As it gets more kills and has a better K/D normally than the P47M. 190D gets about a 1000 more kills with the same or better K/D. Just saying.
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Perking planes, I believe degrades from the positive marketing aspect of the game for beginners. Brand new players aquire very few perk points in the first few weeks of participation but have to go against the A-team with the High End planes, and get shot to pieces, frustrated and I'm certain many quit. I think ENY does what it is basically supposed too, but could use some tweaking. Although with something as complex as this, there are holes in any process. perk points don't keep most veterans from upping a plane. With a steady supply coming in and a mass banked, So maybe perking is not the best solution, changing ENY may be.
ENY will affect new players as well as the "A-team". Maybe new players should be exempt from ENY for their first 30 (?) days.
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perk points don't keep most veterans from upping a plane
Agreed. And perked planes in the hands of noobs don't pose any elevated threat.
- oldman
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ENY will affect new players as well as the "A-team". Maybe new players should be exempt from ENY for their first 30 (?) days.
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Unintended consequences.
You have to know that people will close their accounts and open a new account every 30 days so the can fly perk planes free forever.
It's too bad too. This is actually an idea I like.
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Wow, my apologies I phrased that badly. I meant the D9 can't carry as much ord as most of the lower ENY stuff. It does have the one bomb but it doesn't have rockets or 2 bomb capability. IMO that makes a big difference.
Regarding the jug though, it's effective but it's not filling the sky. If it's a problem, the LA7's more of one.
Wiley.
Actually take a look at last months Stats. It's surprising. The Dora was more of problem than the LA-7.
Dora had 3,163 kills with 1,938 deaths and a K/D of 1.63 ENY 10
LA7 had 2,214 kills with 1,925 deaths and a K/D of 1.15 ENY 5
P-47M had 1,930 kills with 1,164 deaths and a K/D of 1.66 ENY 5
I do not have a horse in this race as I use all of these planes at one time or the other. Just conversing the numbers. :aok
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Actually take a look at last months Stats. It's surprising. The Dora was more of problem than the LA-7.
Dora had 3,163 kills with 1,938 deaths and a K/D of 1.63 ENY 10
LA7 had 2,214 kills with 1,925 deaths and a K/D of 1.15 ENY 5
P-47M had 1,930 kills with 1,164 deaths and a K/D of 1.66 ENY 5
I do not have a horse in this race as I use all of these planes at one time or the other. Just conversing the numbers. :aok
Can't argue with that, but like I said ENY's got more to do with overall capability including potential ground ability than pure dogfighting.
The whole ENY system's a bit subjective anyways, IMO. I think certain planes have values that are a bit high for their capability for reasons I can only guess at. D9, Brewster, 47D11, a few others.
Wiley.
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I can't see perking the P-47 M. Like Puller says its just plane slow, terrible in vertical and is brought down by eny planes in the 40's. No way - no how should it be perked. And I rarely fly it.
Now that dadgum YAK-3 needs to be perked at 25. Anyone who flies it can take down anything cept 262. Instead of picking on the p-47-m, why not get another plane or two to compete with it. I would like to see planes rotate in and out of the game. One month 3 planes come out of the game chosen at random. Then the next month 3 more but different planes come out. That way guys who hibernate in just one plane will be forced to expand his horizons!!!!
Kimo
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Can't argue with that, but like I said ENY's got more to do with overall capability including potential ground ability than pure dogfighting.
The whole ENY system's a bit subjective anyways, IMO. I think certain planes have values that are a bit high for their capability for reasons I can only guess at. D9, Brewster, 47D11, a few others.
Wiley.
You forgot the La5. At ENY 30 it is by far the best fighter per ENY ratio. The La7 stole its older brother's thunder, but the La5 is still a beast - that rarely gets out of the hangar.
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You forgot the La5. At ENY 30 it is by far the best fighter per ENY ratio. The La7 stole its older brother's thunder, but the La5 is still a beast - that rarely gets out of the hangar.
Yeah. That's another big one. Like I said, there are others. G14's ENY's a bit high for its capability IMO too.
My pet theory is they're there to give people something to farm in.
Wiley.
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You forgot the La5. At ENY 30 it is by far the best fighter per ENY ratio. The La7 stole its older brother's thunder, but the La5 is still a beast - that rarely gets out of the hangar.
I see la5s all the time
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I can't see perking the P-47 M. Like Puller says its just plane slow, terrible in vertical and is brought down by eny planes in the 40's. No way - no how should it be perked. And I rarely fly it.
Now that dadgum YAK-3 needs to be perked at 25. Anyone who flies it can take down anything cept 262. Instead of picking on the p-47-m, why not get another plane or two to compete with it. I would like to see planes rotate in and out of the game. One month 3 planes come out of the game chosen at random. Then the next month 3 more but different planes come out. That way guys who hibernate in just one plane will be forced to expand his horizons!!!!
Kimo
The Yak-3 ENY 18 I believe is due for an adjustment as well in my opinion. It had a better K/D last tour than the Spit 16 ENY 5. Perk, nah. Too drastic. ENY adjust. Yes. 10-12 like the Dora.
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I would like to see planes rotate in and out of the game.
-1
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Quote from: BBP on Today at 01:46:08 PM
I would like to see planes rotate in and out of the game.
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I am seconding Zoney on this. No way. Don't touch the toys. I like the toybox full of choices! :aok
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Actually take a look at last months Stats. It's surprising. The Dora was more of problem than the LA-7.
Dora had 3,163 kills with 1,938 deaths and a K/D of 1.63 ENY 10
LA7 had 2,214 kills with 1,925 deaths and a K/D of 1.15 ENY 5
P-47M had 1,930 kills with 1,164 deaths and a K/D of 1.66 ENY 5
I do not have a horse in this race as I use all of these planes at one time or the other. Just conversing the numbers. :aok
A lot has to do with the general flying of each plane. The 190 is a vulcher meaning low risk players. The M a bomber killer and a flying shotgun in a furball. The La7 is small Tempest.
Agreed on the Yak3, it should have a lower eny. Maybe not a 5 since the small ammo load out but low enough when a moderate side imbalance occurs it gets kicked out.
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It is like flying a shotgun, but would that that would mean perking the 51, Ki84, spit 16, La7 and yak3?
From the perk GV scaling, you would have a good point to perk more planes since in GVs, the perk level dips down lower in the vehicle pool.
nope just the P47-M
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I am all for perking it for 1 point. The only reason is that it is a rare late war model that made the D's go extinct except for the role of bomb trucks.
I know a guy that says he thinks he heard someone say HT will perk it on the same game patch he is going to perk the 3-gun La7.
nope perk it as much as the Tempest.
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The data is open to interpretation.
Is Lunatic complaining that he gets too many kills when he flies the P-47M?
nope, just the opposite.
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nope, just the opposite.
It certainly is.
The 410 is one example of how numbers can be skewed.
The fact that a dedicated squad, while working as a team, had such a large percentage of the overall kills is certainly a factor that has skewed the numbers for the M also.
No perks, maybe an ENY adjustment, only maybe.
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I am all for perking it for 1 point. The only reason is that it is a rare late war model that made the D's go extinct except for the role of bomb trucks.
I know a guy that says he thinks he heard someone say HT will perk it on the same game patch he is going to perk the 3-gun La7.
I kinda think all those 9th AF Jug drivers might take offense at being called nothing but bomb trucks :)
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I kinda think all those 9th AF Jug drivers might take offense at being called nothing but bomb trucks :)
I was referring to the game, not history :)
In reality, the P47M was not a major improvement over the 56th D modela that were in service at the time. These were already over boosted to a similar level as the M and had close performance.
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ENY 5 for the -47M works fine, it has similar performance as the P-51. The -47N should be closer to being perked with almost the same performance as the M plus it can carry 2500lbs of bombs and 10 rockets.
But the M-jug is still kind of a one trick bird, you can BnZ and take snap shots but once you run out of E there are a number of other fighters that outperforms it. And it depends on WEP for speed, non WEP performance is unimpressive.
Perking the 3 gun La is one thing, then you can still fly the plane, although with less firepower, but perking planes should not be done unless they tip the balance of the game, like the C-hog did. And the Jug isnt a plane that does that.
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The 51D should be perked before the 47M....
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The 190 has a higher impact on the game than the others mentioned. The reason is because it's fast, can dive fast, and can accelerate quickly. It has 500 cannons. But the #1 reason why it's more successful than the La7/spit16/yak and others is that, since everyone knows its not meant for turning, players do not get low and slow as easily. They do not get mixed up low in furballs turning and burning like the others. This plane is a lot more deadly in the right hands then all the others because it can simply extend away from any trouble much more easier and it doesn't get tangled up. It creates boring gameplay. No one wants to fight players in 190s every sortie. No one wants to chase 190Ds, and no one wants to get BnZed for 10 minutes. The more people that fly this plane at one time, the more the fun gets sucked away. 1000 more kills than than the P47M with close on the same K/D. That's what you have to look at.
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Perking planes, I believe degrades from the positive marketing aspect of the game for beginners. Brand new players aquire very few perk points in the first few weeks of participation but have to go against.
the A-team with the High End planes, and get shot to pieces, frustrated and I'm certain many quit. I think ENY does what it is basically supposed too, but could use some tweaking. Although with something as complex as this, there are holes in any process. perk points don't keep most veterans from upping a plane. With a steady supply coming in and a mass banked, So maybe perking is not the best solution, changing ENY may be. I went 26 for 7 Yesterday with an F4U1 " ENY25". The losses 3 collisions 2 ditches 2 abshuesses, 1 from a lanc and 1 from a Marauder. And My K/D ration is rarely much more than 1to1. 3 victories were 1 Razorback -11 and 2 Jugs a -40 and an M. Also virtually all my 262 and 234 vics are with P47s and Spit XIVs.
Its very likely the opposite. Not perking planes degrades the new user experience.
Item progression is an important part of game development and provides goals for newer players that keep them interested and in game. Providing every item to a player immediately is one of the worst things a game developer can do. The reason for this is simple - if you provide a player in a fantasy mmo with 10 swords of varying power the player will always choose the most powerful and will miss out on developing their skills with the other 9 swords. The player will get bored (nothing to acquire or work towards) and leave.
EvE online is a good example of item progression. I played with for 15 years. You start out with almost no skillpoints and only able to fly a frigate, the remaining other hundred or so ships can take weeks to a few years to be able to pilot. EvE has incredible player retention because of this.
In AH if you give new players a Spit V, Spit 8, Spit 9, Spit 14 and Spit 16 you'll find most players will likely just use the 16 (its the latest) and will fail to learn or try the other spits. Getting access to a new Spit as a progression goal is non-existent.
Most new players in a Spit 16 will be slaughtered as easily (or more easily) than if they were to use a Spit V or Spit 9.
The same goes for most other earlier versions of planes - against any vet you're likely better off in a early war version with its better turning ability if you're a newbie because that's what most newbies are going to do, turn fight.
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EvE online is a good example of item progression. I played with for 15 years. You start out with almost no skillpoints and only able to fly a frigate, the remaining other hundred or so ships can take weeks to a few years to be able to pilot. EvE has incredible player retention because of this.
This is something that needs to be discussed here more, it is one of those truths that need to be dealt with.
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OK, for the purpose of discussion, hell no.
Skill points? No.
Limiting new players in aircraft? No.
And the point that these features give you player retention? Show me that's the reason, not other aspects of the game, these are the 2 things that really keep folks logging in. Prove it.
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OK, for the purpose of discussion, hell no.
Skill points? No.
Limiting new players in aircraft? No.
And the point that these features give you player retention? Show me that's the reason, not other aspects of the game, these are the 2 things that really keep folks logging in. Prove it.
Only the part I quoted is of value. It is a known fact that accumulated achivements and objects tie people to situations and experiences. Heck, even in UO (ultima online, one of the first MMO games) people still subscribe due to the fact they have a house full of virtual objects that took a long time to find, yet don't even play the game other then to refresh their propery (keep it from dissapearing).
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Only the part I quoted is of value. It is a known fact that accumulated achivements and objects tie people to situations and experiences. Heck, even in UO (ultima online, one of the first MMO games) people still subscribe due to the fact they have a house full of virtual objects that took a long time to find, yet don't even play the game other then to refresh their propery (keep it from dissapearing).
Counterpoint: Counterstrike. Other than cosmetics, the gear you have access to on day 1 is the gear you have access to on day 1000.
Wiley.
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Counterpoint: Counterstrike. Other than cosmetics, the gear you have access to on day 1 is the gear you have access to on day 1000.
Wiley.
As we have seen from team fortress 2, is that cosmentics go a long way, some skins and collectables being worth a bit of money and people play to own particular cosmetic items. This is apparent in Counter-strike Global offensive. These games have proven that owning things has its own particular culture surrounding the intent/concept (The hats in TF2 being a meme/sensastion all in its own).
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Yes, but there's no item progression, just cosmetics. The gameplay's identical.
You don't need to work your way through gear, it's just one method of making a game addictive.
Wiley.
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We are talking about things that make people stick to the game longer, not the gameplay.
More people play and stay due to the cosmetics (achiveables) in those games.
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We are talking about things that make people stick to the game longer, not the gameplay.
More people play and stay due to the cosmetics (achiveables) in those games.
No, we are talking about perking the P47M or changing it's ENY and you are changing the discussion. You are trying to make it into a dead subject conversation.
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No, we are talking about perking the P47M or changing it's ENY and you are changing the discussion. You are trying to make it into a dead subject conversation.
LOL, guess I got stuck into the convo a bit much, will make a thread for it instead of derailing any further!
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On the P47-M I don't have much of an issue with it. Then again I usually BnZ / vertical turn fight and I fly the TA mostly. LA's, Yak3, KI84 I find much more dangerous than the 47-M.
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the 47 M is already at a disadvantage...... I fly it.
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AAIK why do you always bring other games into the conversation, there is no other game out there as good as ACES HIGH/ACES HIGHIII.
the only reason people play certain games is because they like that type of game, si fy, rpg, space, military, etc. a game can be a great game for some players not so much for others. and quit trying to HiJack my post.
the people have spoken, they don't want the P47-M perked or eny'ed so be it.
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Here is a list of planes that should have perks:
FW 190 D9
P51D
P47M
F4U1A
Yak3
F4U1C
Spit 16
109 K4
LA7
F4u4
KI84
N1k2
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Here is a list of planes that should have perks:
FW 190 D9 -1
P51D -1
P47M -1
F4U1A -1
Yak3 -1
F4U1C -1
Spit 16 -1
109 K4 -1
LA7 -1
F4u4
KI84 -1
N1k2 -1
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to be fair I think we could use a few more lower-perk planes, just 1 or 2 perks. I think the C-hog is one of those. I think the Yak-3 is begging for that as well. MAYBE the P-47M might warrant a 1-perk cost, but you'd have a hard time proving why. There just isn't a sound case so far. The rest don't deserve a perk, to be honest.
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Here is a list of planes that should have perks:
FW 190 D9
P51D
P47M
F4U1A
Yak3
F4U1C
Spit 16
109 K4
LA7
F4u4
KI84
N1k2
I'm sorry nugetx, but I think you need more experience in the game before you start wishing for things like this. For example, with experience in the game, you would know that the F4U-4 and the F4U-1C are already perked.
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Here is a list of planes that should have perks:
.....
F4U1A
.....
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/a0FuPjiLZev4c/200_s.gif)
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(https://media0.giphy.com/media/a0FuPjiLZev4c/200_s.gif)
No kidding. The F4U-1A may be the best dogfighter of the 1-Hogs, but it's by no means the all-around performer the -4 is (acceleration and climb have only improved from abysmal to somewhere center of the pack).
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Here is a list of planes that should have perks:
F4U1A
KI84
N1k2
:rofl
I just don't see any plane particularly dominating the arena at the moment. The later stuff gets used but very little of it affects the arena that badly other than when people run. By that logic anything faster than X should be perked. Then once that's done, the next fastest thing will need to be perked because people will be running in it, until we wind up with everything being perked but the Storch.
Wiley.
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:rofl
I just don't see any plane particularly dominating the arena at the moment. The later stuff gets used but very little of it affects the arena that badly other than when people run. By that logic anything faster than X should be perked. Then once that's done, the next fastest thing will need to be perked because people will be running in it, until we wind up with everything being perked but the Storch.
Wiley.
Yeah but the Storch can drop smoke and icons of GV's show up sooner for it. Clearly it has an unfair advantage.
Perk the Storch! :devil
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I been paying perks to Pipz to fly the storch. You mean its not perked? :furious :furious :furious
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I always fly my Jug Mary.... and i get blasted out of the sky without a problem.
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Unperk em all. Who cares. If folks are that insecure they need to only fly the best bird out there, so be it. None of this is real :)
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:rofl
I just don't see any plane particularly dominating the arena at the moment. The later stuff gets used but very little of it affects the arena that badly other than when people run. By that logic anything faster than X should be perked. Then once that's done, the next fastest thing will need to be perked because people will be running in it, until we wind up with everything being perked but the Storch.
Wiley.
That is a common fallacy.
It assumes that perked planes are not flown. If you perk a plane for 1 perk point it will still get flown a lot. Quite a few player will even be able to sustain its perk drain by perks obtained while flying it (ENY comes into play here).
If you perk the 109k for 1 point, the 109G14 will probably be the most common model (given the small loss of performance and 20mm gun that some prefer), but 109K will still be abundant and my bet is it will be the 2nd most common 109 and not by a huge margin. Same goes for the La7 and La5.
Some models that dont have many variants are more problematic, like the ki84. On the other hand, the ki84 is not that common and not that great anyway.
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Still think the 190D has the biggest impact on the game as far as non perked planes. The BnZ style means that people don't get down and dirty as often and thus causes stale game play when they simply hit X and accel away. The La7 and yak3 more than likely will turn. The P51D is a bit harder to stay alive in because the 50s get you picked and the accel isn't that great. The 190D is better on the deck than the P47M and with alt, the 190D could run from the P47M giving it the advantage, and the advantage in accel off the merge. The 190D can also dive as good or better than the P47M. The 190D has 500 cannons. These are all reasons why try 190D achieves the same K/D as the P47M, but with close to 1000 more kills. Isn't that a metric that should be considered?
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Still think the 190D has the biggest impact on the game as far as non perked planes. The BnZ style means that people don't get down and dirty as often and thus causes stale game play when they simply hit X and accel away. The La7 and yak3 more than likely will turn. The P51D is a bit harder to stay alive in because the 50s get you picked and the accel isn't that great. The 190D is better on the deck than the P47M and with alt, the 190D could run from the P47M giving it the advantage, and the advantage in accel off the merge. The 190D can also dive as good or better than the P47M. The 190D has 500 cannons. These are all reasons why try 190D achieves the same K/D as the P47M, but with close to 1000 more kills. Isn't that a metric that should be considered?
Yes absolutely, I agree 100%! But only as if the game is to be redesigned to fit what your idea of good game play is.
And this is only if we ignore what Wiley said:
:rofl
I just don't see any plane particularly dominating the arena at the moment. The later stuff gets used but very little of it affects the arena that badly other than when people run. By that logic anything faster than X should be perked. Then once that's done, the next fastest thing will need to be perked because people will be running in it, until we wind up with everything being perked but the Storch.
Wiley.
I'm not sure if you are passionate or myopic Violator, maybe a bit of both? Once again, sir, I think most of us get it, you want the majority of players furballing, no matter what they want to do. You think it's better for the game, even if others just don't want to play that way. Please, your opinion has been heard, "ad infinitum", just give it a rest. Thank you <S>.
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That is a common fallacy.
It assumes that perked planes are not flown. If you perk a plane for 1 perk point it will still get flown a lot. Quite a few player will even be able to sustain its perk drain by perks obtained while flying it (ENY comes into play here).
If you perk the 109k for 1 point, the 109G14 will probably be the most common model (given the small loss of performance and 20mm gun that some prefer), but 109K will still be abundant and my bet is it will be the 2nd most common 109 and not by a huge margin. Same goes for the La7 and La5.
Some models that dont have many variants are more problematic, like the ki84. On the other hand, the ki84 is not that common and not that great anyway.
Actually, thinking about it further, won't people just run even more to save that 1 perk? If not, what behavior has it modified? If so, it's creating even more of a culture of runners.
Wiley.
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Actually, thinking about it further, won't people just run even more to save that 1 perk? If not, what behavior has it modified? If so, it's creating even more of a culture of runners.
Wiley.
Good point. Maybe it would be better for gameplay if perks were spent as soon as wheels left the ground -- no refund for landing.
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Good point. Maybe it would be better for gameplay if perks were spent as soon as wheels left the ground -- no refund for landing.
I was thinking this as well, might be a good idea!
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Actually, thinking about it further, won't people just run even more to save that 1 perk? If not, what behavior has it modified? If so, it's creating even more of a culture of runners.
Wiley.
I completely agree.
Good point. Maybe it would be better for gameplay if perks were spent as soon as wheels left the ground -- no refund for landing.
-1 This does not add to the game, it takes away.
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Yes absolutely, I agree 100%! But only as if the game is to be redesigned to fit what your idea of good game play is.
And this is only if we ignore what Wiley said:
I'm not sure if you are passionate or myopic Violator, maybe a bit of both? Once again, sir, I think most of us get it, you want the majority of players furballing, no matter what they want to do. You think it's better for the game, even if others just don't want to play that way. Please, your opinion has been heard, "ad infinitum", just give it a rest. Thank you <S>.
I hate to burst your bubble, but your flying style is not the norm. Furballing and close quarter fights are what the majority want. I'm trying to show how to make that more prevelant in the game. The #s have died because furballs died. There has been little emphasis on creating more action around the maps. Just look at how much people love furball island even though it doesn't advance the map, which is why I don't care for them, but they provide a lot of action, and are better for the off #s. Look at the post of WW1 when there are 20 people in there. This is what brings the most enjoyment for the majority of players. I'm sorry, but I'm just giving yall the truth that you refuse to accept.
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I hate to burst your bubble, but your flying style is not the norm. Furballing and close quarter fights are what the majority want. I'm trying to show how to make that more prevelant in the game. The #s have died because furballs died. There has been little emphasis on creating more action around the maps. Just look at how much people love furball island even though it doesn't advance the map, which is why I don't care for them, but they provide a lot of action, and are better for the off #s. Look at the post of WW1 when there are 20 people in there. This is what brings the most enjoyment for the majority of players. I'm sorry, but I'm just giving yall the truth that you refuse to accept.
My last reply to you on this sir, your "truth" is not everyone's truth. If the majority of folks wanted to play like you say, they would already be doing it and you would not have to take up residence on your soapbox.
<S> To you sir, I hope you find happiness playing the game.
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I hate to burst your bubble, but your flying style is not the norm. Furballing and close quarter fights are what the majority want. I'm trying to show how to make that more prevelant in the game. The #s have died because furballs died. There has been little emphasis on creating more action around the maps. Just look at how much people love furball island even though it doesn't advance the map, which is why I don't care for them, but they provide a lot of action, and are better for the off #s. Look at the post of WW1 when there are 20 people in there. This is what brings the most enjoyment for the majority of players. I'm sorry, but I'm just giving yall the truth that you refuse to accept.
And what proof do you have for this other than your word?
Furball island has more GVs than anything else. Sure you could have 10-12 guy flying above that, but that certainly is NOT the majority of players. I dont know the percentages but most players seem to play the "win the war" style. Then I thin the GVers follow, followed by furballers, and then the score mongers. If I had to guess at percentages....
40% Win the war
30% Gvers
20% furballers
10%score mongers
And 20% on the furballers is being generous.
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Furballing and close quarter fights are what the majority want. I'm trying to show how to make that more prevelant in the game. The #s have died because furballs died.
Do you not find this view to be inconsistent with your position that base-taking is too defense-oriented? I mean, if one wants to have a furball, wouldn't one want to establish a presence somewhere between bases?
I don't mean to be offensive, I realize that I'm not clever.
- oldman
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No one plane is dominating - one plane of each make is dominating. That's just as bad.
If you see a Machi its almost certainly a 205, if you see a 109 its almost certainly a K. Iff you see a P51 its almost certainly a D.
That's bad for the game and a waste of thousands of hours of flight modelling / game design.
There are exceptions like the Spits, a Spit 5 is sometimes superior to a Spit 16 but for those planes that do almost everything fighter better than their predecessor they could do with a small perk.
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And what proof do you have for this other than your word?
Furball island has more GVs than anything else. Sure you could have 10-12 guy flying above that, but that certainly is NOT the majority of players. I dont know the percentages but most players seem to play the "win the war" style. Then I thin the GVers follow, followed by furballers, and then the score mongers. If I had to guess at percentages....
40% Win the war
30% Gvers
20% furballers
10%score mongers
And 20% on the furballers is being generous.
Players spend 42% of the time in fighters. That means the majority like fighter combat compared to 26% in tanks and bombers. Just go look at Lusches stats. Those %s have stayed consistent regardless of the #s. That's how I know that fighters are the the most popular. More and more fighters have left the game due to bordem and slow game play. There's many reasons for that, which I explain a lot. The point is that people want fights but the fights are not worth the time anymore. Who wants to spend 10 minutes to fight 1 or 2 bad guys? Again, I've played for a long time at the top level and truely understand the psychology of how most people fight and enjoy the game.
My last reply to you on this sir, your "truth" is not everyone's truth. If the majority of folks wanted to play like you say, they would already be doing it and you would not have to take up residence on your soapbox.
<S> To you sir, I hope you find happiness playing the game.
That's fine Zoney. The "truth" is that #s have dropped considerably and more people are getting tired of slow gameplay. When all you have is old timers left who enjoy watching grass grow, don't you think there needs to be some kind of change to game play to increase action? You guys keep making excuses and tell everyone your favorite BS arguement about how "it's how you want to play but not everyone else* that's really funny when more people are leaving, and getting fed up with it. I just don't understand the logic how doing nothing to promote action increases action? It's obviously not working, the #s prove it.
Do you not find this view to be inconsistent with your position that base-taking is too defense-oriented? I mean, if one wants to have a furball, wouldn't one want to establish a presence somewhere between bases?
I don't mean to be offensive, I realize that I'm not clever.
- oldman
That's a good point Oldman but with closer bases there will be more of a chance to actually defend from a back field if you need to. It would bring more combat and less point and shoot, ruin sorties out of spite with muh manned ack that doesn't really stop vulching gameplay. I figure that the more people get sniped out of the sky by trying to attack a field when there's nothing to do, the more people will just get bored stop playing. Rolling from close back fields or side bases is the real answer to base defense during a cap, not more silly lazy manned guns.
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I hate to burst your bubble, but your flying style is not the norm. Furballing and close quarter fights are what the majority want. I'm trying to show how to make that more prevelant in the game. The #s have died because furballs died. There has been little emphasis on creating more action around the maps. Just look at how much people love furball island even though it doesn't advance the map, which is why I don't care for them, but they provide a lot of action, and are better for the off #s. Look at the post of WW1 when there are 20 people in there. This is what brings the most enjoyment for the majority of players. I'm sorry, but I'm just giving yall the truth that you refuse to accept.
If the majority want to furball why aren't they? :headscratch:
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Players spend 42% of the time in fighters. That means the majority like fighter combat compared to 26% in tanks and bombers. Just go look at Lusches stats. Those %s have stayed consistent regardless of the #s. That's how I know that fighters are the the most popular. More and more fighters have left the game due to bordem and slow game play. There's many reasons for that, which I explain a lot. The point is that people want fights but the fights are not worth the time anymore. Who wants to spend 10 minutes to fight 1 or 2 bad guys? Again, I've played for a long time at the top level and truely understand the psychology of how most people fight and enjoy the
and of that 42% in fighters, how many are using them to truck bombs to flatten a town? Easily 2/3 if not more. Fighters get bombs there faster than a big old buff.
So using Lusches data you have proven less than half the player use fighters. That means MOST don't, NOT a good start. What other proof do you have?
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and of that 42% in fighters, how many are using them to truck bombs to flatten a town? Easily 2/3 if not more. Fighters get bombs there faster than a big old buff.
So using Lusches data you have proven less than half the player use fighters. That means MOST don't, NOT a good start. What other proof do you have?
If I have 42%, you have 28%, a third person has 20% and a fourth has 10%; who has the most?
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Who wants to spend 10 minutes to fight 1 or 2 bad guys?
Me. Like you I love dog fighting.....but I absolutely hate Center Island. It's another Pick-tard lake. Too many bandits all coming at you at once. A furball is a cluster with no coordination, or executable strategy. Unless you hang on the perimeter and watch for the others to get distracted and swoop and steal kills. Most guys in furballs are really B&Z-ing the people stall fighting. It's crap fighting, and always has been.
I'd rather fight 2v1 off by myself. If I can get 2v2 or 3v3 it's really perfect, far from a base where no one runs ack, They don;t even have to be co-alt....we'll lure them there eventually.
Also while I'm on the subject of dog fighting and MA......I like the randomness of the MA. I rarely get the ideal fight, but I love that I never know what's coming or who I'm up against, how the circumstances will turn. You don't get that in the Match Play arena. ...and I'm lazy and don't want to recruit and round up people to leave the MA and go over there. So I accept that trade-off, notwithstanding that occasionally I will whine on 200 when some picker ends a really good fight. :angry:
Note: While I don't like pick tards, I respect their right to play that way and I adapt. :salute
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Me. Like you I love dog fighting.....but I absolutely hate Center Island. It's another Pick-tard lake. Too many bandits all coming at you at once. A furball is a cluster with no coordination, or executable strategy. Unless you hang on the perimeter and watch for the others to get distracted and swoop and steal kills. Most guys in furballs are really B&Z-ing the people stall fighting. It's crap fighting, and always has been.
I'd rather fight 2v1 off by myself. If I can get 2v2 or 3v3 it's really perfect, far from a base where no one runs ack, They don;t even have to be co-alt....we'll lure them there eventually.
Also while I'm on the subject of dog fighting and MA......I like the randomness of the MA. I rarely get the ideal fight, but I love that I never know what's coming or who I'm up against, how the circumstances will turn. You don't get that in the Match Play arena. ...and I'm lazy and don't want to recruit and round up people to leave the MA and go over there. So I accept that trade-off, notwithstanding that occasionally I will whine on 200 when some picker ends a really good fight. :angry:
Note: While I don't like pick tards, I respect their right to play that way and I adapt. :salute
I have to add that turning and burning is easier to get into then bnz; so casuals and newbies will generally do that.
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I completely agree.
-1 This does not add to the game, it takes away.
Have to disagree with you there. People that fly perk planes are much more timid than usual, because of the fear of losing perks. Timidity takes a lot away from the game. The game sucks when everyone is more worried about avoiding death than causing it. Removing another reason for timidity would be most certainly adding to the game.
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Have to disagree with you there. People that fly perk planes are much more timid than usual, because of the fear of losing perks. Timidity takes a lot away from the game. The game sucks when everyone is more worried about avoiding death than causing it. Removing another reason for timidity would be most certainly adding to the game.
I really think you guys are missing the point that regardless of perks, rewards, name in lights, score, or whatever other thing you want to bring up, a lot of people simply don't want to die. I'll grant the point that some fly a lot more carefully when they're using a perk plane, but not all.
If it was a matter of "buying" a perk plane as is suggested here, it might be ok but IMO in that case the prices should be adjusted downward. I'm thinking about half what they are now.
Wiley.
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If the majority want to furball why aren't they? :headscratch:
Because they left.
32 people in MA as I speak. I wonder why its not more popular?
[/quote]
Have to disagree with you there. People that fly perk planes are much more timid than usual, because of the fear of losing perks. Timidity takes a lot away from the game. The game sucks when everyone is more worried about avoiding death than causing it. Removing another reason for timidity would be most certainly adding to the game.
They might be more timid, but there will be less of them. the 190D gets 5X the kills of the Temp. Which do you think causes a bigger imbalance at this time?
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I think it would be far more reasonable to request an ENY adjust to the Dora than adding a perk based on it's more recent k/d and usage numbers. It's not perk worthy, but it definitely deserves a sub 10 ENY.
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Player count is low, more perks and less fun equals less people.
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Because they left.
32 people in MA as I speak. I wonder why its not more popular?
And you know for a fact that every one of them left because of lack of furballs how exactly? I know your peer group left because of it, but you're extrapolating an awful lot based on what looks to me like wishful thinking for the most part.
Wiley.
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And you know for a fact that every one of them left because of lack of furballs how exactly? I know your peer group left because of it, but you're extrapolating an awful lot based on what looks to me like wishful thinking for the most part.
Wiley.
Just go ahead and ask the 10 squads that have left in the last 3 years, or who only do FSO now.
All that it appears to me is that the way you want people to play is actually hurting the #s, but no one will actually admit that.
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To Mr. Lunatik's original post about perking the P-47M; put down the crack pipe man. Rarity arguments aside - this AC is outclassed by several in the set already.
<S> and fair skies. I am going to make some guacamole and send it to Skuzzy now.
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Just go ahead and ask the 10 squads that have left in the last 3 years, or who only do FSO now.
All that it appears to me is that the way you want people to play is actually hurting the #s, but no one will actually admit that.
'Only doing FSO' isn't leaving. Nor is it 'furballing', per say.
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They havent left because of man guns or P-47:s.
The game is just the same as when there was hundreds of players, it isnt that the gameplay have driven people away but for different reason people stops playing, that is true for all games. Problem is that no new players are filling their place. Whats left is a bunch of the old core that have been flying forever.
The first to leave when numbers drop is the furballers that want swift, instant action. The base takers and win-the-war guys can still do their thing so they stay longer but even they are feeling the low numbers. Euro prime time is dead and gone since ~1½ years ago. When numbers are low enough the player base implodes and that is what have happen to pretty much everyone outside the US. I havent bother to log on on weekdays for well over a year.
No map or plane or man gun will change it. And the problem isnt the gameplay, it is a fantastic game, problem is that people doesnt know it. I havent met anyone here that have heard of Aces high and problem now is that i cannot recruit anyone either because the only thing they will see when they log in is an empty arena..
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Just go ahead and ask the 10 squads that have left in the last 3 years, or who only do FSO now.
All that it appears to me is that the way you want people to play is actually hurting the #s, but no one will actually admit that.
Who said I want people to play a certain way again? I want people out there trying to kill me. I'm going to try to kill them. Gameplay will ensue. I want them to come at my side however they want, and I want my side to rise to meet them when it happens.
What I don't want is for the game to be turned into something limited and mindless resembling WT.
They havent left because of man guns or P-47:s.
The game is just the same as when there was hundreds of players, it isnt that the gameplay have driven people away but for different reason people stops playing, that is true for all games. Problem is that no new players are filling their place. Whats left is a bunch of the old core that have been flying forever.
The first to leave when numbers drop is the furballers that want swift, instant action. The base takers and win-the-war guys can still do their thing so they stay longer but even they are feeling the low numbers. Euro prime time is dead and gone since ~1½ years ago. When numbers are low enough the player base implodes and that is what have happen to pretty much everyone outside the US. I havent bother to log on on weekdays for well over a year.
No map or plane or man gun will change it. And the problem isnt the gameplay, it is a fantastic game, problem is that people doesnt know it. I havent met anyone here that have heard of Aces high and problem now is that i cannot recruit anyone either because the only thing they will see when they log in is an empty arena..
About catches how I feel about it. The game has a shelf life for everyone that plays it and that timer starts counting down the first day you log in. Not enough replacements coming in to sustain it.
Wiley.
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I think it would be far more reasonable to request an ENY adjust to the Dora than adding a perk based on it's more recent k/d and usage numbers. It's not perk worthy, but it definitely deserves a sub 10 ENY.
ENY does not do anything really except lock out the plane when numbers are un ballanced.
ENY affects your perk gains, but that does not matter when there is hardly any use for perk point. Unlike the ENY lock, a perk tag does not prevent you from flying the plane.
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Because they left.
32 people in MA as I speak. I wonder why its not more popular?
...
Question is why did they leave instead of staying and playing like they want to play?
How much help from HTC do people need to furball in the MA?
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Other than die hard fans most people don't invest years in a single game. The key is bringing new people in, I am new to AH (compared to most of you old timers) but gameplay here same as WBs, same problems and issues. Without an in-flow of new players every game will eventually shrivel. Heck as bad as WBs is now they still manage to keep 20 or so core players on in prime time, 3-4 during the day. High hopes for Steam here, helped WBs notta but AH is a much better cared for game.
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Question is why did they leave instead of staying and playing like they want to play?
How much help from HTC do people need to furball in the MA?
One thing that's changed substantially is GVing. Logged in yesterday to a couple of tanks vulching fields.
Spent an hour or so fighting them. Got shot down twice to a t34s main gun.
No planes to fight, just GVs blowing up town and fields and getting shot by ostwinds before their icon shows up.
It was retarded so logged off.
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How much help from HTC do people need to furball in the MA?
Harden field radar and ammo.
Make it easier to find a fight, and harder to rely on GVs without air support.
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+1
Strafing down a steel frame structure should be close to futile.
Harden field radar and ammo.
Make it easier to find a fight, and harder to rely on GVs without air support.
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Harden field radar and ammo.
Correct answer!
:banana:
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Harden field radar and ammo.
Make it easier to find a fight, and harder to rely on GVs without air support.
Correct answer!
:banana:
+1
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going mach 6
I only fly it going Mach 5 (not 6).
It is incapable of being a pure turn fighter on par with a Spit. That said there are some guys in this game that can do some amazing things turn-wise in planes that most mortals cannot (P-47, P-51, Twin-Engine birds). Kudos to them.
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So when can we expect changes now that AH is on steam? :)
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So when can we expect changes now that AH is on steam? :)
What in the entirety of this thread has led you to the conclusion that we can expect changes?
Wiley.
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So when can we expect changes now that AH is on steam? :)
What changes need to be made???
All the stuff that you and AAIK have come up with that would make the game "Snowflakes Up In The Air".....not "Aces High"
Hey how about y'all actually play the game for a considerable amount of time then come up with ideas...WOW what a novel idea :aok
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"They" didn't leave because of the game.
"They" left because of the "playa".
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What changes need to be made???
All the stuff that you and AAIK have come up with that would make the game "Snowflakes Up In The Air".....not "Aces High"
Hey how about y'all actually play the game for a considerable amount of time then come up with ideas...WOW what a novel idea :aok
There are plenty of things that would improve game play. I upped a 190 today and killed 8 ammo bunkers with it including flying through field ack and only losing a aileron. That affected 2 bases and every player upping from those bases were no longer able to use ords.
Ords should require a bomb to down, not guns -
(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18920122_481506958861024_6342139828183142275_n.jpg?oh=f97a2a435f0296178c8b6f17920500ba&oe=5A39A33F)
Does that look like it could be killed by strafing, hardened reinforced concrete. "The bunkers are 60 metres long and are covered by up to four metres of dirt and concrete." http://www.ozatwar.com/ozatwar/possumpark.htm
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There are plenty of things that would improve game play. I upped a 190 today and killed 8 ammo bunkers with it including flying through field ack and only losing a aileron. That affected 2 bases and every player upping from those bases were no longer able to use ords.
Ords should require a bomb to down, not guns -
(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18920122_481506958861024_6342139828183142275_n.jpg?oh=f97a2a435f0296178c8b6f17920500ba&oe=5A39A33F)
Does that look like it could be killed by strafing, hardened reinforced concrete. "The bunkers are 60 metres long and are covered by up to four metres of dirt and concrete." http://www.ozatwar.com/ozatwar/possumpark.htm
Not all ammo dumps on airfields were enclosed in a concrete bunker, some just kept the ordnance out in the open.
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Here is a list of planes that should have perks:
FW 190 D9
P51D
P47M
F4U1A
Yak3
F4U1C
Spit 16
109 K4
LA7
F4u4
KI84
N1k2
:ahand
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P47M and N1K I wouldn't have on that list. They're not overly common in MA
:ahand
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N1K is pretty powerfull with 4x20mm and it turns well also.
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I flew the N1k2 my first ever sortie in aces high even before getting my stick scaling proper and immediately landed two kills the first 5 minutes of flight.
I haven't flown it since other than during my testing to see how every plane in aces high performs at super high altitude.
Yak 3........maybe 10 flights total.
P51..........maybe 5 flights total.
LA7..........maybe 20 flights total.
190D9......two flights
Tempest....maybe 15 flights total.
109k4........never
spit 16.......once
ki84...........twice
I prefer 110s, using tu2 as heavy fighter after bombing enemy, I16, and Yak9u for chasing runners.
I don't consider any P47 to be uber and worthy of perks and will attack them in any of the planes mentioned above.
I do feel perks may be necessary for super limited production late war cannon monsters and the other fighters that streak in, drop the VH with crazy heavy bomb loadouts rarely used in action, strafe down the dar and ammo, take out a few acks and then run away for two sectors the second any opposition shows up.
I enjoy seeing someone state in the buffer that they need to go farm perks in an early war plane when I know that "perks just happen" but that "more perks happen" if you simply incorporate flying earlier planes into your experience instead of performing some task that these pilots consider drudgery and work to "farm perks".
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N1K is pretty powerfull with 4x20mm and it turns well also.
There is no reason to perk the N1K2, it hardly unbalances the game play. Instead of crying to perk planes, learn how to fight against them.
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There is no reason to perk the N1K2, it hardly unbalances the game play. Instead of crying to perk planes, learn how to fight against them.
And much a zero only takes a few pings to turn it into a torch.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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There is no reason to perk the N1K2, it hardly unbalances the game play. Instead of crying to perk planes, learn how to fight against them.
Don't you mean "learn how to chase them" so you can catch them in a chase?
Sadly, that only works if you have a late war monster yourself.
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Don't you mean "learn how to chase them" so you can catch them in a chase?
Sadly, that only works if you have a late war monster yourself.
N1K is not fast. It hold E well, dives quite well but less well than the KI84. We used to see tons of N1K's in the MA way back but I think the KI84 has pretty much made them obsolete if you're looking for a manuverable, fast accelerating, fast diving jap cannon bird.
I see them occasionally mostly doing base defense which they're good at. I had a fight with a P47M yesterday in a N1K, was an even fight, he couldn't outturn me, I couldn't catch him after the initial burst of speed I got from my dive, died eventually when another P47 turned up. Was about 10 minutes of jousting, fighting for alt and one or two turns ad nuaseum, about even imo.
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I don't consider a N1k2 to be uber except in armament.
It's a good all around plane.
My "late war monster" comment references later war planes that are used to down dar and run away at uncatchable speeds the second a defensive response shows up.
There is way too much running away in the arena as it is.
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While I agree with some of the posts assessment, I think there are other birds that need to be perked before the 47m. Like the LA7, Niki.
I think the corsair 1a is effective because you have some of the best pilots in here flying it. I have run into some who aren't that good and it is decidedly average. When I fly it, it is a big huge target.
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I think the Perk this or Perk that argument often is out of whack. The K4 was said to need to be perked for the longest time because the muppets and a few others were able to fly it with lethal efficiency. Put it in the hands of most noobs, and the plane is unflyable, and definitely not something they can rack up kills in. It has a big gun with very little ammo, and a big engine... everything else is left up to the pilot.
In comparison, things such as Spitfires, LA7s and P51s just about anybody can get in and have a decent change of landing a kill just based on the fact they're fast, maneuverable, and carry a punch, plus are mostly stable platforms that lend themselves to a heavy hand on the yolk.
I don't find the M's to be that daunting or in need of perkage. I think it more has to do with people effectively using a plane skewing its numbers.
IMHO, it's no different than the people complaining about F3 in an IL2... it really didn't change the effectiveness of the plane for those who know how to use it. It just made the negative G flopping of a few no longer a viable tactic when you can't see behind you.
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I wouldn't mind seeing the kill numbers of P47m broken down to fighter vs buff kills.
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I wouldn't mind seeing the kill numbers of P47m broken down to fighter vs buff kills.
Also kills per Pilot. I honestly don't see a whole lot in the sky. If it's a few people using it effectively, I think that proves the point that it doesn't need to be perked. If it has 1000 pilots flying it per tour and still ranks in the top K/D, then I would consider it to be an issue to the balance of the game.
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I wouldn't mind seeing the kill numbers of P47m broken down to fighter vs buff kills.
Of the 2800 kills racked up by the P-47M in Melee tour 209, only 328 players got kills in it, so those kills are divided amongst them. Of those players, only the top 30 most skilled got more than 20 kills (less than 10% of the players), and of those only the top 12 got more than 50 kills in it, and only 4 players got over 100 kills in it...
And only 2 players got nearly 200 kills each in it. So the kills are heavily tilted towards the two most skilled players flying it: Yucca and Thrash99. They got 175 and 174 kills in it.
While Thrash took down a dozen lancasters in it total, the majority for both pilots were fighter kills, and it is mostly being used for dogfighting. The planes most able to bring down either top ace are, no surprise, the spit16 and p-51d.
TL;DR we have those stats and you can look them up all you like.
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Of the 2800 kills racked up by the P-47M in Melee tour 209, only 328 players got kills in it, so those kills are divided amongst them. Of those players, only the top 30 most skilled got more than 20 kills (less than 10% of the players), and of those only the top 12 got more than 50 kills in it, and only 4 players got over 100 kills in it...
And only 2 players got nearly 200 kills each in it. So the kills are heavily tilted towards the two most skilled players flying it: Yucca and Thrash99. They got 175 and 174 kills in it.
While Thrash took down a dozen lancasters in it total, the majority for both pilots were fighter kills, and it is mostly being used for dogfighting. The planes most able to bring down either top ace are, no surprise, the spit16 and p-51d.
TL;DR we have those stats and you can look them up all you like.
:aok
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Another truly amazing post by Lusche.
Thanks man........I might have attempted it but busy here passing gravel after they "blasted" an 8mm kidney stone this afternoon at the hospital.
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Of the 2800 kills racked up by the P-47M in Melee tour 209, only 328 players got kills in it, so those kills are divided amongst them. Of those players, only the top 30 most skilled got more than 20 kills (less than 10% of the players), and of those only the top 12 got more than 50 kills in it, and only 4 players got over 100 kills in it...
And only 2 players got nearly 200 kills each in it. So the kills are heavily tilted towards the two most skilled players flying it: Yucca and Thrash99. They got 175 and 174 kills in it.
While Thrash took down a dozen lancasters in it total, the majority for both pilots were fighter kills, and it is mostly being used for dogfighting. The planes most able to bring down either top ace are, no surprise, the spit16 and p-51d.
TL;DR we have those stats and you can look them up all you like.
I think your math needs some work Krusty. 175+174 = 349. for just Yucca and Thrash. Y?et you started by saying the plane had a total for all pilots = 328 :headscratch:
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I think your math needs some work Krusty. 175+174 = 349. for just Yucca and Thrash. Y?et you started by saying the plane had a total for all pilots = 328 :headscratch:
He did not. He said 328 pilots got kills in it, not 328 kills. :old:
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Of the 2800 kills racked up by the P-47M in Melee tour 209
Heh... not like I said it on the first sentence, on the first line of my post. :uhoh
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Of the 2800 kills racked up by the P-47M in Melee tour 209, only 328 players got kills in it, so those kills are divided amongst them. Of those players, only the top 30 most skilled got more than 20 kills (less than 10% of the players), and of those only the top 12 got more than 50 kills in it, and only 4 players got over 100 kills in it...
And only 2 players got nearly 200 kills each in it. So the kills are heavily tilted towards the two most skilled players flying it: Yucca and Thrash99. They got 175 and 174 kills in it.
While Thrash took down a dozen lancasters in it total, the majority for both pilots were fighter kills, and it is mostly being used for dogfighting. The planes most able to bring down either top ace are, no surprise, the spit16 and p-51d.
TL;DR we have those stats and you can look them up all you like.
This here is amazing and exactly what is needed. There is no reason to perk a plane because two people fly it effectively. Definitely shows there is no effect on the game balance. <S>
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Just don't look at my beloved Me410 stats. No, wait, do. Do look at the Me410 stats. It proves your point, as a matter of fact.
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Heh... not like I said it on the first sentence, on the first line of my post. :uhoh
you're right. It was 5:33am. I guess I was still half asleep. :salute
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No worries Vink. I kid. :aok
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I flew the P-47M last night with a low ammo load, 50% fuel, and a droptank.
JHC the thing is a monster (especially when you burn and drop your tank). Climbs at almost 4000+ fpm, accelerates like a Mustang GT with nitro, and turns better than the P-51D. Wow. Just wow. I'm truly in awe of this machine...might be my next favourite ride next to my Spit V.
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6 guns light was the standard loadout. There was no "overload" like we have in this game. That's historically fictional. 267 rpg and 6 or in rare cases 8 guns was the standard load. That's why it was such a big deal in WW2. It was a hotrod. In this game everybody takes the 1000lbs extra weight in the wings and complain it's not that great.
That doesn't mean it deserves a perk, though.
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6 guns light was the standard loadout. There was no "overload" like we have in this game. That's historically fictional. 267 rpg and 6 or in rare cases 8 guns was the standard load. That's why it was such a big deal in WW2. It was a hotrod. In this game everybody takes the 1000lbs extra weight in the wings and complain it's not that great.
That doesn't mean it deserves a perk, though.
Agreed. It'll be my standard loadout going forward. There are other aircraft that are much better performers - and it doesn't need to be perked. But FML, this is a great surprise!
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6 guns light was the standard loadout. There was no "overload" like we have in this game. That's historically fictional. 267 rpg and 6 or in rare cases 8 guns was the standard load. That's why it was such a big deal in WW2. It was a hotrod. In this game everybody takes the 1000lbs extra weight in the wings and complain it's not that great.
That doesn't mean it deserves a perk, though.
I still think it's great with the 1000 lbs extra weight in the wings. :noid
The best part is, the more you shoot the better it gets. I have used 6 guns light ammo for dueling in various jugs from time to time and it definitely does improve the handling.
I have to admit I'd miss the unlimited ammo loadout if they got rid of it though.
Wiley.
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I do admit I want 120 rounds of 30mm in my 109K-4. I do admit I want 1000 rounds of 20mm on my C205. I do admit I want 6,000 lbs of 1k bombs in my B-25C.
Doesn't mean any of them ever existed, and if I had them then you took them away, I'd miss them. I think it's a big hole in AHs historical fidelity that this guns load persists yet to this day.
Otherwise give me my 8x 20mm cannons on my Fw190D!
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47M is just a Jug that'll hang on the prop a little longer. If fights in the MA regularly occured above 20k, then all the Jugs would be considered monsters and need perks. At MA altitudes, the M is slightly above average. Can't outrun much, doesn't accelerate for crap, certainly not very good at slow speed turns.
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It is great for dumping E for a nice sharp hard turn and a nice hard-punching guns setup, though. Those two together mean a pilot with a little SA can wreck shop against the unwary.
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One 47m is a good fight. The problem is when there are 2 and they use wingman tactics. And as much as I hate saying it the 56th exemplify wingman tactics in those birds. It guaranteed if you are fighting rooks and there are multiple 47s that they are probably flying them.
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One 47m is a good fight. The problem is when there are 2 and they use wingman tactics. And as much as I hate saying it the 56th exemplify wingman tactics in those birds. It guaranteed if you are fighting rooks and there are multiple 47s that they are probably flying them.
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Except on Friday nights when most of the guys are flying their FSO birds. :D
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At MA altitudes, the M is slightly above average. Can't outrun much, doesn't accelerate for crap, certainly not very good at slow speed turns.
You and me both know Mak from fighting each other that when put to the test, tides can turn :devil
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I do admit I want 120 rounds of 30mm in my 109K-4. I do admit I want 1000 rounds of 20mm on my C205. I do admit I want 6,000 lbs of 1k bombs in my B-25C.
Doesn't mean any of them ever existed, and if I had them then you took them away, I'd miss them. I think it's a big hole in AHs historical fidelity that this guns load persists yet to this day.
Otherwise give me my 8x 20mm cannons on my Fw190D!
Except all the other examples you make up require modifications to theaircraft or are simply impossible. On the other hand, 425 rpg in the P47 was simply a loadout option that was simply not used often, or at all. It did not require any modifications.
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(http://i.imgur.com/rcynKSv.jpg)
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Lol perk the P-38L! That's hilarious!
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I doubt he's even looked at the F4F, the spit1, the P40s, let alone flown them in the main arena. He puts undisputable god of the spit14 in the middle tier with the spit8 but then moves the spit16 up to the one above that? The spit16 and spit8 are the same plane. Same basic performance. Just a slight difference in configuration and loadout. Arguably, the spit8 is even better at turn fights and stall fighting than the 16 is.
You're making arbitrary stuff up here nugget. Please stop. It's not practical and it's not grounded in reality and it doesn't take into account HOW you use the plane. The spit8 is a better fighter than the 16 but the 16 rolls a little better. Players see the 16 is the highest number so they take that.
You should take up the N1K2. It's fun. It's slow. It can't climb very well for a late war plane. It has 4x 20mm cannons but the ballistics suck so you have to aim carefully and use more to bring down a target. It's not even very COMMON in the main arena. A very large number of its kills last tour were just bombers and GVs. You need to drop your "let's change the game because I have a misconceived notion of something with no context" battle plan you've drawn up, eh?
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From another one of Nugget's whine threads, but figure I'd post here, since P47Ms are throwing the game balance off so much, what would you consider the perk level needed for the Storch to be?
Vehicles and planes are separate groups for the Sortie %
Fi 156 2.11%
P-47M 1.62%
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Hitech already looked at Nutty's chart and said it ain't gonna happen. About 5 or 6 pages ago or in a different post. I don't know. This guy hijacks posts everywhere with the same baseless drivel it's so hard to remember where his last crazy post was. :rolleyes:
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I WAS KILLED BY (X) PLANE -- IT SHOULD BE PERKED AND REMOVED FROM THE GAME!!!! :police:
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It is great for dumping E for a nice sharp hard turn and a nice hard-punching guns setup, though. Those two together mean a pilot with a little SA can wreck shop against the unwary.
This can be said of any plane. Is that the qualifications for Perk plane? :salute
Take a P-39 up and dive the unary. It's one of the best high speed turning planes in the MA, it has a 37mm cannon, 4 50 cals. PERK it!
The things that make planes special...or great...or better..or what ever adjective you want to use...
1) Top speed.
2) low speed turn rate.
3) Gun package.
4) Bomb/Rocket load.
If it's going to be perked, it should be in the top 10% of 3 out of 4 of these.
Gun package rank. I see it as 1@30mm=2@20mm=6@.50cal.=12@.30cal
JuG M:
Top Speed =High It's faster than everything above 20K, but it's slower than the 109K4, Dora, and Tempest below 20K, and Slower than the P-51 and La7 below 10K.
Low Speed turn Rate = Low most planes will out turn it. Yak3, Spitfire, N1ki, Ki-84, F4u, Hurricane, Ki-67, P-38, C-205, and on and on...
Gun Pack = Mid: middle of the pack firepower [w/6 50cals] on par with the Ki-84 and Spitfire, and equal to the pny, corsair and P-38. Way behind, the 262, Typhie, N1ki, C-hog, 109G [Gondies), Mossie, 110, 410, La7[3@20mm]
Ordinance = Low: Doesn't carry rockets or bombs.
2 lows, a mid and high doesn't add up to a perk plane. :salute
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I wasn't advocating for a perk. Plus, some planes bleed E way better than others. That's what I meant. Maybe it won't regain it very fast, but it can turn that E into angles. That can't be said of all planes. The 262 has a LOT of E, but it's a veritable pig since the 262 update and it can't mush into an accelerated stall anymore, can't get angles like it used to.
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.... :noid I'm in the 56th... I fly a 47M... I'll just quietly hope I'm counted as one of those pilots making the 47M "a beast", and not just a target...
Because anyone who's killed me knows, it's an "any given sunday" situation. At times, I look the ace, and other's a baby seal to be clubbed...
..... Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.....
...No Perk for 47M :pray
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Reading through 11 pages... I have my conclusion. P47 doesn't need to be perked. Violator is right.
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useless image removed
This "fun to fight" metric of yours has no meaning. You really need to stop posting it. :salute
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Lol perk the P-38L! That's hilarious!
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It needs perked because of the margarita tank and the blender.
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Perk the M jug? I'm loving this lol.
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Perk the M jug? I'm loving this lol.
Yucca forgive him for he knows not what he do.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Hey nugget, instead of trying to perk a ride, try flying it more. You'll 1) appreciate the skill that goes into it more, 2) understand its weaknesses and how to defeat it better, and 3) learn more and have more fun. I would suggest you fly with Yucca there as one of the more prolific jug pilots in the game, but..
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Oh, that's right. Nugget doesn't play this game, last I recall.
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My version of the nuggetx triangle of perkage.
(https://s19.postimg.org/tdjcrfhk3/perk.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5mjz9bhcv/)
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:rofl
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THREAD LOCKED DUE TO YUCCA. :devil
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Any plane with an ENY under 35 should be perked. It's the only way to be sure.
Wiley.
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My version of the nuggetx triangle of perkage.
Image removed
Hilarious!
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I wasn't advocating for a perk. Plus, some planes bleed E way better than others. That's what I meant. Maybe it won't regain it very fast, but it can turn that E into angles. That can't be said of all planes. The 262 has a LOT of E, but it's a veritable pig since the 262 update and it can't mush into an accelerated stall anymore, can't get angles like it used to.
My point almost every plane will pull to the pilot black out limit. The are are two attributes when turning E into angles that seem relevant:
1) Don't compress.
A hand full of planes actually can't turn hard enough to achieve the blackout limit, The P-38, 109, zeke, but not many.
2) retaining E through the turn.
The Corsair Pony and 262 do a great job of pulling to the G-limit and holding speed. The Jug seems to me to be an E bleeder. Like many planes it will make the turn and be dead slow coming out the other side. Then it's a target because it's accelerate and climb are mid pack.
:salute
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I will say the Jug is a pretty darn good plane. You can say the vertical sucks all you want but when it can hang on the prop shooting 8 50s, pretty terryfing. :)
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I will say the Jug is a pretty darn good plane. You can say the vertical sucks all you want but when it can hang on the prop shooting 8 50s, pretty terryfing. :)
Low fuel with WEP, it can surprise a lot of people. The D11 and M particularly.
Wiley.
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My version of the nuggetx triangle of perkage.
(https://s19.postimg.org/tdjcrfhk3/perk.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5mjz9bhcv/)
LOLOLL
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why would you want to perk the F6F? you should try flying it and reconsider
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why would you want to perk the F6F? you should try flying it and reconsider
it should definitely be perked when Biggamer is flying it! :D