P47-M

[Wiley]

That is a common fallacy.
It assumes that perked planes are not flown. If you perk a plane for 1 perk point it will still get flown a lot. Quite a few player will even be able to sustain its perk drain by perks obtained while flying it (ENY comes into play here).

If you perk the 109k for 1 point, the 109G14 will probably be the most common model (given the small loss of performance and 20mm gun that some prefer), but 109K will still be abundant and my bet is it will be the 2nd most common 109 and not by a huge margin. Same goes for the La7 and La5.

Some models that dont have many variants are more problematic, like the ki84. On the other hand, the ki84 is not that common and not that great anyway.

Actually, thinking about it further, won't people just run even more to save that 1 perk?  If not, what behavior has it modified?  If so, it's creating even more of a culture of runners.

Wiley.

[popeye]

Actually, thinking about it further, won't people just run even more to save that 1 perk?  If not, what behavior has it modified?  If so, it's creating even more of a culture of runners.

Wiley.

Good point.  Maybe it would be better for gameplay if perks were spent as soon as wheels left the ground -- no refund for landing.

[AAIK]

Good point.  Maybe it would be better for gameplay if perks were spent as soon as wheels left the ground -- no refund for landing.

I was thinking this as well, might be a good idea!

[Zoney]

Actually, thinking about it further, won't people just run even more to save that 1 perk?  If not, what behavior has it modified?  If so, it's creating even more of a culture of runners.

Wiley.

I completely agree.

Good point.  Maybe it would be better for gameplay if perks were spent as soon as wheels left the ground -- no refund for landing.

-1  This does not add to the game, it takes away.

[DmonSlyr]

Yes absolutely, I agree 100%!  But only as if the game is to be redesigned to fit what your idea of good game play is.

And this is only if we ignore what Wiley said:

I'm not sure if you are passionate or myopic Violator, maybe a bit of both?  Once again, sir, I think most of us get it, you want the majority of players furballing, no matter what they want to do.  You think it's better for the game, even if others just don't want to play that way.  Please, your opinion has been heard, "ad infinitum", just give it a rest.  Thank you <S>.

I hate to burst your bubble, but your flying style is not the norm. Furballing and close quarter fights are what the majority want. I'm trying to show how to make that more prevelant in the game. The #s have died because furballs died. There has been little emphasis on creating more action around the maps. Just look at how much people love furball island even though it doesn't advance the map, which is why I don't care for them, but they provide a lot of action, and are better for the off #s. Look at the post of WW1 when there are 20 people in there. This is what brings the most enjoyment for the majority of players. I'm sorry, but I'm just giving yall the truth that you refuse to accept.

[Zoney]

I hate to burst your bubble, but your flying style is not the norm. Furballing and close quarter fights are what the majority want. I'm trying to show how to make that more prevelant in the game. The #s have died because furballs died. There has been little emphasis on creating more action around the maps. Just look at how much people love furball island even though it doesn't advance the map, which is why I don't care for them, but they provide a lot of action, and are better for the off #s. Look at the post of WW1 when there are 20 people in there. This is what brings the most enjoyment for the majority of players. I'm sorry, but I'm just giving yall the truth that you refuse to accept.

My last reply to you on this sir, your "truth" is not everyone's truth.  If the majority of folks wanted to play like you say, they would already be doing it and you would not have to take up residence on your soapbox.

<S> To you sir, I hope you find happiness playing the game.

[The Fugitive]

I hate to burst your bubble, but your flying style is not the norm. Furballing and close quarter fights are what the majority want. I'm trying to show how to make that more prevelant in the game. The #s have died because furballs died. There has been little emphasis on creating more action around the maps. Just look at how much people love furball island even though it doesn't advance the map, which is why I don't care for them, but they provide a lot of action, and are better for the off #s. Look at the post of WW1 when there are 20 people in there. This is what brings the most enjoyment for the majority of players. I'm sorry, but I'm just giving yall the truth that you refuse to accept.

And what proof do you have for this other than your word?

Furball island has more GVs than anything else. Sure you could have 10-12 guy flying above that, but that certainly is NOT the majority of players. I dont know the percentages but most players seem to play the "win the war" style. Then I thin the GVers follow, followed by furballers, and then the score mongers. If I had to guess at percentages....

40% Win the war
30% Gvers
20% furballers
10%score mongers

And 20% on the furballers is being generous. 

[Oldman731]

Furballing and close quarter fights are what the majority want. I'm trying to show how to make that more prevelant in the game. The #s have died because furballs died.

Do you not find this view to be inconsistent with your position that base-taking is too defense-oriented?  I mean, if one wants to have a furball, wouldn't one want to establish a presence somewhere between bases?

I don't mean to be offensive, I realize that I'm not clever.

- oldman

[Zygote404]

No one plane is dominating - one plane of each make is dominating.  That's just as bad. 

If you see a Machi its almost certainly a 205, if you see a 109 its almost certainly a K. Iff you see a P51 its almost certainly a D.

That's bad for the game and a waste of thousands of hours of flight modelling / game design.

There are exceptions like the Spits, a Spit 5 is sometimes superior to a Spit 16 but for those planes that do almost everything fighter better than their predecessor they could do with a small perk.

[DmonSlyr]

And what proof do you have for this other than your word?

Furball island has more GVs than anything else. Sure you could have 10-12 guy flying above that, but that certainly is NOT the majority of players. I dont know the percentages but most players seem to play the "win the war" style. Then I thin the GVers follow, followed by furballers, and then the score mongers. If I had to guess at percentages....

40% Win the war
30% Gvers
20% furballers
10%score mongers

And 20% on the furballers is being generous.

Players spend 42% of the time in fighters. That means the majority like fighter combat compared to 26% in tanks and bombers. Just go look at Lusches stats. Those %s have stayed consistent regardless of the #s. That's how I know that fighters are the the most popular. More and more fighters have left the game due to bordem and slow game play. There's many reasons for that, which I explain a lot. The point is that people want fights but the fights are not worth the time anymore. Who wants to spend 10 minutes to fight 1 or 2 bad guys? Again, I've played for a long time at the top level and truely understand the psychology of how most people fight and enjoy the game.

My last reply to you on this sir, your "truth" is not everyone's truth.  If the majority of folks wanted to play like you say, they would already be doing it and you would not have to take up residence on your soapbox.

<S> To you sir, I hope you find happiness playing the game.

That's fine Zoney. The "truth" is that #s have dropped considerably and more people are getting tired of slow gameplay. When all you have is old timers left who enjoy watching grass grow, don't you think there needs to be some kind of change to game play to increase action? You guys keep making excuses and tell everyone your favorite BS arguement about how "it's how you want to play but not everyone else* that's really funny when more people are leaving, and getting fed up with it. I just don't understand the logic how doing nothing to promote action increases action? It's obviously not working, the #s prove it.

Do you not find this view to be inconsistent with your position that base-taking is too defense-oriented?  I mean, if one wants to have a furball, wouldn't one want to establish a presence somewhere between bases?

I don't mean to be offensive, I realize that I'm not clever.

- oldman

That's a good point Oldman but with closer bases there will be more of a chance to actually defend from a back field if you need to. It would bring more combat and less point and shoot, ruin sorties out of spite with muh manned ack that doesn't really stop vulching gameplay.  I figure that the more people get sniped out of the sky by trying to attack a field when there's nothing to do, the more people will just get bored stop playing. Rolling from close back fields or side bases is the real answer to base defense during a cap, not more silly lazy manned guns.

[FLS]

I hate to burst your bubble, but your flying style is not the norm. Furballing and close quarter fights are what the majority want. I'm trying to show how to make that more prevelant in the game. The #s have died because furballs died. There has been little emphasis on creating more action around the maps. Just look at how much people love furball island even though it doesn't advance the map, which is why I don't care for them, but they provide a lot of action, and are better for the off #s. Look at the post of WW1 when there are 20 people in there. This is what brings the most enjoyment for the majority of players. I'm sorry, but I'm just giving yall the truth that you refuse to accept.

If the majority want to furball why aren't they?   

[The Fugitive]

Players spend 42% of the time in fighters. That means the majority like fighter combat compared to 26% in tanks and bombers. Just go look at Lusches stats. Those %s have stayed consistent regardless of the #s. That's how I know that fighters are the the most popular. More and more fighters have left the game due to bordem and slow game play. There's many reasons for that, which I explain a lot. The point is that people want fights but the fights are not worth the time anymore. Who wants to spend 10 minutes to fight 1 or 2 bad guys? Again, I've played for a long time at the top level and truely understand the psychology of how most people fight and enjoy the

and of that 42% in fighters, how many are using them to truck bombs to flatten a town? Easily 2/3 if not more. Fighters get bombs there faster than a big old buff.

So using Lusches data you have proven less than half the player use fighters. That means MOST don't, NOT a good start. What other proof do you have?

[AAIK]

and of that 42% in fighters, how many are using them to truck bombs to flatten a town? Easily 2/3 if not more. Fighters get bombs there faster than a big old buff.

So using Lusches data you have proven less than half the player use fighters. That means MOST don't, NOT a good start. What other proof do you have?

If I have 42%, you have 28%, a third person has 20% and a fourth has 10%; who has the most?

[Vinkman]

Who wants to spend 10 minutes to fight 1 or 2 bad guys?

Me.  Like you I love dog fighting.....but I absolutely hate Center Island. It's another Pick-tard lake.  Too many bandits all coming at you at once. A furball is a cluster with no coordination, or executable strategy. Unless you hang on the perimeter and watch for the others to get distracted and swoop and steal kills. Most guys in furballs are really B&Z-ing the people stall fighting. It's crap fighting, and always has been.

I'd rather fight 2v1 off by myself. If I can get 2v2 or 3v3 it's really perfect, far from a base where no one runs ack, They don;t even have to be co-alt....we'll lure them there eventually.

Also while I'm on the subject of dog fighting and MA......I like the randomness of the MA. I rarely get the ideal fight, but I love that I never know what's coming or who I'm up against, how the circumstances will turn. You don't get that in the Match Play arena. ...and I'm lazy and don't want to recruit and round up people to leave the MA and go over there. So I accept that trade-off, notwithstanding that occasionally I will whine on 200 when some picker ends a really good fight. 

Note: While I don't like pick tards, I respect their right to play that way and I adapt. 

[AAIK]

Me.  Like you I love dog fighting.....but I absolutely hate Center Island. It's another Pick-tard lake.  Too many bandits all coming at you at once. A furball is a cluster with no coordination, or executable strategy. Unless you hang on the perimeter and watch for the others to get distracted and swoop and steal kills. Most guys in furballs are really B&Z-ing the people stall fighting. It's crap fighting, and always has been.

I'd rather fight 2v1 off by myself. If I can get 2v2 or 3v3 it's really perfect, far from a base where no one runs ack, They don;t even have to be co-alt....we'll lure them there eventually.

Also while I'm on the subject of dog fighting and MA......I like the randomness of the MA. I rarely get the ideal fight, but I love that I never know what's coming or who I'm up against, how the circumstances will turn. You don't get that in the Match Play arena. ...and I'm lazy and don't want to recruit and round up people to leave the MA and go over there. So I accept that trade-off, notwithstanding that occasionally I will whine on 200 when some picker ends a really good fight. 

Note: While I don't like pick tards, I respect their right to play that way and I adapt. 

I have to add that turning and burning is easier to get into then bnz; so casuals and newbies will generally do that.