Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on September 27, 2014, 08:06:14 AM
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Yea I know there is another thread about this somewhere Im just too lazy to look for it.
Just logged on for a rare (for me ) morning play. Says 65 players on. I get into the arena and look to see where the fight if any is. Some schmuck has (milkrun) bombed HQ and taken dar down.
Yanno what this looks like to someone who has just logged in?
It looks like there is nobody playing.
Exactly how is this helpful to the game? It isnt. If anything its counter productive. The numbers are low enough already for those of us with experience to find any kind of fight. Now imagine how it looks to someone who may not have ever played. Again. Looks like nobody is there
What HTC needs to do is eliminate entirely Bombed HQ effects and its rewards for doing so once the numbers drop to a certain number
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For the record. I just logged off.
Thats the reason.
you want people to actually play this game or not?
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eliminate entirely Bombed HQ effects and its rewards for doing so once the numbers drop to a certain number
+1
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The very idea of taking out darbars by killing the HQ is a flawed concept that is a detriment to combat, no matter how many are on the roster.
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Actually the first time buffs dropped it. The second time this morning it was a Bish CV off shore. Lame game play to say the least. I logged also.
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Actually the first time buffs dropped it. The second time this morning it was a Bish CV off shore. Lame game play to say the least. I logged also.
Shoot down the bombers...... sink the CV.... problem solved and you get combat while doing it. :rolleyes:
and no it wasent me this time who dropped HQ,so dont even try to blame me :neener:
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I wonder what percentage of the HQ take down is strategic as compared to just for the fun of it to make people sequel?
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Shoot down the bombers...... sink the CV.... problem solved and you get combat while doing it. :rolleyes:
and no it wasent me this time who dropped HQ,so dont even try to blame me :neener:
during normal gameplay with greater numbers I agree. And if you know bombers are headed there before hand..well...yea
But..
The point is. Dar was already down when I got there.
A new player logs in and doesn't see anything and it looks like nobody is playing.
Experienced players tend to zoom their dar into the immediate area and a couple sectors around . Not zoomed out to look at the whole map. Especially on the big maps. So even your experienced player already there may never know a raid is inbound until dar goes out. but for him it doesnt matter anyway because he already knows where the fight is
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I wonder what percentage of the HQ take down is strategic as compared to just for the fun of it to make people sequel?
Im guessing by squeal you mean just to piss people off. Im guessing people do it during low numbers to pad their score with a relatively easy milkrun
But if the end result is people log off it doesnt matter.
During these hours you already have lower numbers. Why would you want to do or allow anything that causes them to drop even further?
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I wonder what percentage of the HQ take down is strategic as compared to just for the fun of it to make people sequel?
The trend i see here is that the "furballers" have their blinders on and only care about the furball and when the precious HQ goes down they cry.
These are the same people that will never never lift a finger to defend it or re-supply it.
For us that like the "win the war" gameplay,its all about strategy.
yeah go ahead and flame me,just voicing my opinion :)
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The trend i see here is that the "furballers" have their blinders on and only care about the furball and when the precious HQ goes down they cry.
These are the same people that will never never lift a finger to defend it or re-supply it.
For us that like the "win the war" gameplay,its all about strategy.
yeah go ahead and flame me,just voicing my opinion :)
Im not a win the war type because I couldnt care less about winning the war but I do take part in just about every aspect of the game regardless of if it helps "win the war" or not. Including resupplying HQ.
And I usually dont whine about HQ going down. I see it as a part of normal game play most of the time. But doing so during hours of already extremely low numbers is counterproductive to the game itself. And on these big maps its highly unlikely 20 players or so (assuming numbers are divided equally) are going to "win the war" And even if they do. What have they accomplished against no resistance? Yea, you won the war. But in essence you could have had the same amount of fun by doing it in offline mode for all the resistance you face
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The trend i see here is that the "furballers" have their blinders on and only care about the furball and when the precious HQ goes down they cry.
And to answer this specifically. Most players in general. only have their dar zoomed into a couple of sectors at most. Especially on the large maps. Furballer or win the war type. They may never know there is even a raid inbound to HQ until after its happened because even for the win the war types they are more concentrating on the immediate area on what base they are taking next and what the immediate threat is to them as opposed to what is going on elsewhere
but I digress.
This thread was about morning low number non peak hour gameplay. And not gameplay in general.
HT and Skuzzy can get pissed at me all they want for making this next statement. But logging into an arena where it looks like nobody is there is bad for the game and bad for business. You want ot encourage more people to be playing..not less
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Im guessing by squeal you mean just to piss people off. Im guessing people do it during low numbers to pad their score with a relatively easy milkrun
But if the end result is people log off it doesnt matter.
During these hours you already have lower numbers. Why would you want to do or allow anything that causes them to drop even further?
You can get more points hitting towns on a milk run than hitting HQ. I'm sure there are some players who do it for strategic reasons, or because they want the challenge of fighting their way in and out, but that number I'm sure is very few. Most, and by a large margin Im sure do it to piss people off.
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I f*cking agree : 1 h ago we lost HQ with 67 ppl logged (67 only!), and we were already limited in terms of fights... After 15 min, impossible to find a correct and entertaining fight : i logged off, and several did same just before me.
HQ should be "protected" if less than 100 ppl are logged in, thats common sense. I mean, the best way to make more ppl NOT log ingame during these low pop hours is really to let 1/2 individuals ruin fun for a whole side...
The most pathetic fact is that those who do HQ runs are also those who whine on 200/forum 30 min later because they cant hfind good fights, and are p*ssed off because perks are too high ! :bhead
Yea I know there is another thread about this somewhere Im just too lazy to look for it.
Just logged on for a rare (for me ) morning play. Says 65 players on. I get into the arena and look to see where the fight if any is. Some schmuck has (milkrun) bombed HQ and taken dar down.
Yanno what this looks like to someone who has just logged in?
It looks like there is nobody playing.
Exactly how is this helpful to the game? It isnt. If anything its counter productive. The numbers are low enough already for those of us with experience to find any kind of fight. Now imagine how it looks to someone who may not have ever played. Again. Looks like nobody is there
What HTC needs to do is eliminate entirely Bombed HQ effects and its rewards for doing so once the numbers drop to a certain number
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The danger is you can win the war but lose the game.
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Whats the point "winning the war" not because you are better and use better strategy, but because you make ppl log off and win against an empty side ?
If u answer "well we win the war", then i suggest you play vs AI in another sim, as obviously you dont get the "multiplayer" fun concept... :noid
The trend i see here is that the "furballers" have their blinders on and only care about the furball and when the precious HQ goes down they cry.
These are the same people that will never never lift a finger to defend it or re-supply it.
For us that like the "win the war" gameplay,its all about strategy.
yeah go ahead and flame me,just voicing my opinion :)
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Yanno what this looks like to someone who has just logged in?
It looks like there is nobody playing.
Exactly how is this helpful to the game? It isnt. If anything its counter productive. The numbers are low enough already for those of us with experience to find any kind of fight. Now imagine how it looks to someone who may not have ever played. Again. Looks like nobody is there
What HTC needs to do is eliminate entirely Bombed HQ effects and its rewards for doing so once the numbers drop to a certain number
You are absolutely right. The paradox is that HTCs biggest problem reason are the players themselves. Players are selfishly seeking every form of an advantage they can get without considering the oppositions gameplay experience at all. As long as HTC does nothing to limit this sort of detrimental attitude, it's hurting player numbers.
I remember quitting AH for the first time many years ago in direct response to constant imbalance and hording on my timezone. It just wasn't fun anymore to log on only to see your country was reduced to 2 fields that were vulched by the two other countries non-stop.
If HTC can't see that it has to force the playerbase to play on terms which are fun for both sides, the decline is inevitable. One serious problem is the steep learning curve for new players. They get completely underwhelmed against long timers and what do they do? They seek refuge in numbers, making hordes again bigger. There should be a balancing method to make noobs more competitive. What it is, I have no idea.
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For us that like the "win the war" gameplay,its all about strategy.
yeah go ahead and flame me,just voicing my opinion :)
I enjoy base taking too and map wins. I make the runs too on HQ supply but can't say I ever defended HQ. I guess because I am in on a base take or defense most of the time I don't watch whats going on at HQ.
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Huehuehue
Imma gunna go kill the HQ some more...
:airplane:
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Huehuehue
Imma gunna go kill the HQ some more...
:airplane:
Death song for AH... enjoy it while it lasts.
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. . . Imma gunna go kill the HQ some more...
To just be a pain in everyone's backside or for strategic reasons?
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HQ should be more difficult to take down or easier to resupply either way would solve the problem ...
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Take out the individual red or green dots when HQ is down, but leave the red or green main darbars in place so you can at least see the sectors where the action is taking place.
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Shoot down the bombers...... sink the CV.... problem solved and you get combat while doing it. :rolleyes:
and no it wasent me this time who dropped HQ,so dont even try to blame me :neener:
So, you are saying that when there are 13 (not all active) players they should abandon all other game play alternatives to circle above HQ or troll the seas for possible enemy task groups?
Ummmmm nnnnnnnnnnnnnno! Flying into uber accurate puffy ack after climbing 15 mins, how do you even consider that combat?
By the way, the particular set of Lancasters that killed the Knight HQ this morning actually dive bombed it. Wow! So, please.......... refrain from this nonsensical bull crap, "if you don't like it, it's your own fault". I don't like it and don't have to tolerate it (logged off immediately and got some good rest).
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Type the following on Country channel:
"Where's the fight at?"
Chances are you'll have several responses. No need to worry about dar bar anymore. :aok
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If busting the HQ is so wrong, why does it feel so good? :old:
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With the HQ being such a valuable asset to all countries, It'd REALLY POORLY protected (ack) and very light with how much damage it takes to kill it.
I think if BOTH these were increased, say more anti-AC flak around the HQ, and say 100k ib needed to kill it, things would change.
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......as the numbers continue to shrink.
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Plain and simple... No single player should be able to have such an impact on the game. It should take a good sized mission to kill a country's HQ. The whole concept of HQ is flawed. Lightly armed, no radar, and a single set of lancs drops it. Ridiculous !!! Put HQ in the middle of the city, MORE ACK, and at least 4 sets of lancs to totally drop it.
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Yeah, I'm gonna a have to agree with dred on this one. No since in having radar down with so many bases and very little players. It does make it extremely difficult to find fights and the majority of players will switch sides which will destroy the concept of side royalty.
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The danger is you can win the war but lose the game.
Bingo.
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Death song for AH... enjoy it while it lasts.
You are just crying wolf, they say. Nevermind what their own eyes would tell them if they bothered to look.
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HQ should be more difficult to take down or easier to resupply either way would solve the problem ...
Funny how you can't get within a mile of a CV without puffy ack giving you a pilot wound, but lumbering buffs over the HQ can do so without a worry. :headscratch:
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......as the numbers continue to shrink.
It is starting to feel like critical mass lately....
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Bring back the mega strat system & place HQ dead in the middle. This will stop the single formation of Lancaster's flying NOE all the way to HQ & pulling the nose up at the last moment to down HQ.
The ring of flack towers on the mega strat system will at least force them higher much earlier.
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OK have a go at HQ bombers if you like but how many fighters does it take to kill lancs ?
I started playing AH because i was tired of the childish people on the ps3 spoiling the tactical side of war sims, it seems Ah is also going that way
Some of the changes suggested will drive away some of the established players especially those who specialize in strategic bombing
the best idea I've seen though is to make the ack more effective,as going higher means its only worth doing if your'e good enough !
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OK have a go at HQ bombers if you like but how many fighters does it take to kill lancs ?
One of the main problems is that on many maps you don't even have a chance to catch a NOE Lanc HQ raider before he's over HQ.
The target with the most disruptive effect of all AH should require a massive strike, and not a easy NOE run by a single player. The balance is off.
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I agree with the OP and most of what everyone else has said about that.
So far as it goes, can anyone say when the last time HTC adjusted a major strat or rule function of the game? I'd like to see a list of the last 3 if anyone has that info.
The point is, despite what players say about things, flaws pointed out, changes requested - it very rarely happens. What happens instead is when something like this comes up, where a number of players all agree, a trend forms. Then HTC spars with players on the BBS. Then suspensions and PNGs happen when players continue to press their opinion. Then the player base shrinks a fraction more.
This is the only game of it's kind out there. Warbirds, Fighter Ace, AW - all gone, or might as well be gone. Should the numbers not have been constantly increasing, not decreasing? There are other games that cost a similar (exact) price with hundreds of thousands of players and subscribers, that aren't as old as this game, nor do they exist in an environment with no real competition. So, what are the reasons the numbers are where they are at?
Of course, by Monday, this post will be #whatever'd, like most of the things HTC doesn't like to hear, but break no official rules. The buck starts and stops with HTC - they are the only ones that can make changes, yet no changes have been forthcoming as the slide has continued over the last number of years. What other options are there when your player base falls to half of what it was? Change, or don't change. But when "don't change" is the choice, blaming your customers and "their attitude" for the results is absolutely ridiculous.
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Im guessing by squeal you mean just to piss people off. Im guessing people do it during low numbers to pad their score with a relatively easy milkrun
But if the end result is people log off it doesnt matter.
During these hours you already have lower numbers. Why would you want to do or allow anything that causes them to drop even further?
I couldn't agree more!
Here in Australia this is peak flying time. That said having 60 people logged on is a treat for me because usually the numbers are much lower at that time of the day/night. Last night we were having a blast fighting the nits over tank/fireball island then some retard from the rook side took out knight HQ then bragged on 200 that he did it and then bailed from his buffs. Clearly just doing it to piss people off and troll about it.
The problem with that apart from his aholeness and trolling being detrimental to the game is that the knights that were fighting then logged taking away the best fights of the night.
So I guess my point is that HTC needs to put something in place to stop it happening, someone mentioned something about downed HQ having no effect with less than 100 logged on. That would be a good start.
I won't name the rook that did it in this post as it would breach rule 4 so I'll name him in the next post :cheers:
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So far as it goes, can anyone say when the last time HTC adjusted a major strat or rule function of the game? I'd like to see a list of the last 3 if anyone has that info.
The last major change was the strat mechanism one in August 2012.
During which the HQ was also tied to the City for downtimr determination, had been flat 45 minutes before.
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I couldn't agree more!
Here in Australia this is peak flying time. That said having 60 people logged on is a treat for me because usually the numbers are much lower at that time of the day/night. Last night we were having a blast fighting the nits over tank/fireball island then some retard from the rook side took out knight HQ then bragged on 200 that he did it and then bailed from his buffs. Clearly just doing it to piss people off and troll about it.
The problem with that apart from his aholeness and trolling being detrimental to the game is that the knights that were fighting then logged taking away the best fights of the night.
So I guess my point is that HTC needs to put something in place to stop it happening, someone mentioned something about downed HQ having no effect with less than 100 logged on. That would be a good start.
I won't name the rook that did it in this post as it would breach rule 4 so I'll name him in the next post :cheers:
99Auger was the jerk that took out nit HQ then trolled about bailing his bombers after. I mostly fly rook but that idiot rook needs taking down a peg or two
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Lusche, thanks. Do you recall, oh king of all things statistics, when the previous couple ones were? That one was over 2 years ago now, I'd like to know exactly when the previous few were, along with what the changes entailed.
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Lusche, thanks. Do you recall, oh king of all things statistics, when the previous couple ones were?
During my active time, no really big ones. Other than the complete revamp of that system in 12, there was just this change from central to dsipersed strats this year.
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then some retard from the rook side took out knight HQ then bragged on 200 that he did it and then bailed from his buffs. Clearly just doing it to piss people off and troll about it.
But it's a legitimate target and he's free to do so. HQs are there to be bombed and destroyed and you can't really blame a player for doing so.
That the current incarnation of this mechanism is flawed is a different matter.
Maybe it's time to drop the HQ's even more to send out a strong message... ;)
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The very idea of taking out darbars by killing the HQ is a flawed concept that is a detriment to combat, no matter how many are on the roster.
+1
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But it's a legitimate target and he's free to do so. HQs are there to be bombed and destroyed and you can't really blame a player for doing so.
That the current incarnation of this mechanism is flawed is a different matter.
Maybe it's time to drop the HQ's even more to send out a strong message... ;)
Yes HQ is a legitimate target but you are missing the point of the thread mate. That taking it out in low number times is chitty and hurts the game in instead of growing its player base. I know some friends have stopped playing completely because of HQ being down so often. Might not seem like a big deal there in the US because you still have numbers and find a fight but in Aus it can ruin a night and be a deal breaker for some.
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Yes HQ is a legitimate target but you are missing the point of the thread mate.
Do I?
Well, what is the point of this thread then? Making people stop killing HQ? You will never ever achieve that.
The only thing you can hope for is convincing HTC that the mechanism is flawed and to change it. You can't change people. As long as the HQ is there, it will be bombed, no matter how disruptive the effect will be.
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On my way to kill a HQ now...
Which one we'll find out...
:banana: :airplane: :banana:
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the best idea I've seen though is to make the ack more effective,as going higher means its only worth doing if your'e good enough
I don't think you can do this presently (make the ack more effective at just one location).
But I like the idea.
- oldman
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Do I?
Well, what is the point of this thread then? Making people stop killing HQ? You will never ever achieve that.
The only thing you can hope for is convincing HTC that the mechanism is flawed and to change it. You can't change people. As long as the HQ is there, it will be bombed, no matter how disruptive the effect will be.
Actually Lusche you clearly are missing the point. The point is not about stopping people bombing the hQ it's about the effect it has on the game when it happens while you are blissfully asleep while other people in the world are trying to play.
It's hard enough to find a fight in this timezone as it is without some A hole making a third of the arena quit... But it cool mate enjoy your server with 300 people in it because you are in the US.
Yes you are completely missing the point of this thread
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Upped some lancs last night for knight HQ. Announced on 200 that I was gonna try to bomb a HQ. I was at 10K and showing a darbar for 5 sectors, even passing through some dar rings. Nobody came for me, what a surprise! Like almost always, and I rarely fly above 14K. As long as my lancasters face no opposition, I'll keep busting the HQ. Not for score (got 1.22 perks last night :rofl) but because it's fun, a legitimate target and helps my squad mates drop strats and come back alive.
I need no 150 octane fuel. Knight tears fuel my lancasters! :old:
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But it cool mate enjoy your server with 300 people in it because you are in the US.
Lusche is in Germany. Probably closer to your time zone than ours.
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Another one who brag and don't understand the point of the OP...omg. :rolleyes:
Upped some lancs last night for knight HQ. Announced on 200 that I was gonna try to bomb a HQ. I was at 10K and showing a darbar for 5 sectors, even passing through some dar rings. Nobody came for me, what a surprise! Like almost always, and I rarely fly above 14K. As long as my lancasters face no opposition, I'll keep busting the HQ. Not for score (got 1.22 perks last night :rofl) but because it's fun, a legitimate target and helps my squad mates drop strats and come back alive.
I need no 150 octane fuel. Knight tears fuel my lancasters! :old:
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Actually Lusche you clearly are missing the point. The point is not about stopping people bombing the hQ it's about the effect it has on the game when it happens while you are blissfully asleep while other people in the world are trying to play.
It's hard enough to find a fight in this timezone as it is without some A hole making a third of the arena quit... But it cool mate enjoy your server with 300 people in it because you are in the US.
When I log into AH for the first time each day, it's between 30-50 players. At the start of my local prime time, it's about 90 players.
And you seem to ignore pretty much anything else I have said about the current HQ mechanism. :)
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The trend i see here is that the "furballers" have their blinders on and only care about the furball and when the precious HQ goes down they cry.
These are the same people that will never never lift a finger to defend it or re-supply it.
For us that like the "win the war" gameplay,its all about strategy.
yeah go ahead and flame me,just voicing my opinion :)
At this point you either are wearing your own blinders or simply don't care if we lose "any" quality play during a time that doesn't directly effect you.
Take those blinders off and what you will see, is that some of our good off hours players (those who, like me have either odd schedules of work or live in different time zones) have paid our subscriptions to be able to PLAY ONLINE AGAINST OTHER PLAYERS. This obsession to take out HQ and piss off folks has run its course, and that is only MAGNIFIED WHEN NUMBERS ARE LOW.
In early (off hours) arena play, the removal of all functions for radar (enemy and friendly dot and dar) demolishes all indications of any INTERACTION WITH OTHER ONLINE PLAYERS.
Wake up (early) and smell the coffee. If this continues it will not end well.
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The trend i see here is that the "furballers" have their blinders on and only care about the furball and when the precious HQ goes down they cry.
These are the same people that will never never lift a finger to defend it or re-supply it.
For us that like the "win the war" gameplay,its all about strategy.
yeah go ahead and flame me,just voicing my opinion :)
Well said! :aok
I noticed on Bish side many times same lame defence or nonparticipation on resuping efforts!
Most important valid strategic tgt, bomb it defend it or cry in the darkness. Too bad they didn't add it in map reset formula over the years.
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Upped some lancs last night for knight HQ. Announced on 200 that I was gonna try to bomb a HQ. I was at 10K and showing a darbar for 5 sectors, even passing through some dar rings. Nobody came for me, what a surprise! Like almost always, and I rarely fly above 14K. As long as my lancasters face no opposition, I'll keep busting the HQ. Not for score (got 1.22 perks last night :rofl) but because it's fun, a legitimate target and helps my squad mates drop strats and come back alive.
I need no 150 octane fuel. Knight tears fuel my lancasters! :old:
Tracer gets the point of the thread. And I myself mentioned that during normal hours when the bulk of the people are on there is nothing wrong with bombing HQ.
The point is once the numbers drop to a certain point Killing HQ becomes detrimental to the game. Not only for the players already there. but anyone who comes in. Especially new folk.
As I mentioned in my OP This time of play (9:30 AM EST) is extremely rare for me anymore. But back in the days when I was checking out new games and just getting hooked on games like Airwarrior. I would typically do it on weekend mornings because 1 -I had the time to relax for a couple of hours before everyone got up so I could check new games out and learn without wife or child ack. 2 It allowed me to be involved in smaller fights so I could learn better without having to take on 10 at a time. Now we are talking about a time when I was impressing myself if I got more then 2 or 3 kills a day
As a newbie back then not knowing much of anything about anything in the game If I had logged in then and saw what I saw yesterday. I would have thought nobody was playing because it looks like an empty arena and there is little chatter going on to indicate otherwise and I would have logged and moved onto something else. And that was in the day ( almost 20 years ago) when there weren't a ton of other online games out there so there were far less choices. Now the choices for online gaming is vast by comparison. Not to mention the types of systems that they can be run on. Xbox etc.
First impressions are more important now then they ever were. And entering an arena that for all intents and purposes looks empty leaves a terrible first impression. And even a second or third. Because not only do you want to attract customers. But you want them to keep coming back.
As a player I must admit my reasons are selfish. I like this game. I want this game to succeed and stay around because I'd like to be able to keep on playing this game. I'm guessing Tracer probably feels about the same way. But how long can he stay around with people either not staying or logging off? How many new people in his timezone, or any of the others that dont match our US primetime have come. looked in and said. "Not any/many people here. Must not be fun" and left never to return?
Numbers are low enough as it is during our off hours. And even getting to that point during our prime hours the last thing we as players want is to see less people logging in and staying.
Folks want to play the part of greifer particularly during off hours. Go right ahead. Just remember these words when one day in the future you say "I remember how much fun I used to have playing that game" when its no longer there for you to enjoy.
BTW I like the idea of making HQ more difficult to drop. Make it more vast and expansive or something. But as someone mentioned . the one thing that has the greatest impact on an entire side should not be able to be destroyed by one player, one or even two sets of bombers one one mission and should be anything but a milkrun. Quadruple the amount of puffy ack
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Well said! :aok
I noticed on Bish side many times same lame defence or nonparticipation on resuping efforts!
Most important valid strategic tgt, bomb it defend it or cry in the darkness. Too bad they didn't add it in map reset formula over the years.
Another one who doesnt get it.
During prime time is one thing. Its about the off hours play.
Spend much time playing when there are only a few people on?
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Bring back the mega strat system & place HQ dead in the middle. This will stop the single formation of Lancaster's flying NOE all the way to HQ & pulling the nose up at the last moment to down HQ.
The ring of flack towers on the mega strat system will at least force them higher much earlier.
This. You cannot change the dynamic of the game based upon a number on the clock, so for the moment this is the only fix.
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Well said! :aok
I noticed on Bish side many times same lame defence or nonparticipation on resuping efforts!
Most important valid strategic tgt, bomb it defend it or cry in the darkness. Too bad they didn't add it in map reset formula over the years.
So your saying you ENJOY running goons to HQ? You ENJOY dropping out of a mission to jump into a 163 to defend HQ against a lone set of lancs? Well thats great, now all we need is a couple hundred other players that ENJOY doing it too!
We have to remember that this is a game we are PAYING to play. If players cant find any place to play, why would they keep PAYING? That all this should boil down to. Just one more thing chasing people AWAY from the game. We need a few more things to make people want to STAY not leave. NOBODY enjoys running goons, NOBODY enjoys dropping out of a mission to defend HQ. We here to play and have fun.
Even prime time US last night (a Saturday night) the numbers never hit 300 players.
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I'm sure this is obvious for everyone and has been brought up before, however:
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/bardar_zps509ff930.png~original)
It's the bardar, gents. That's it. A tool for the ten second scan. Bases still flash. Radar rings still work
(unless someone took it out). The buffer text still works. Is there nobody amongst the twenty or so
players on your side that will respond 'Yeah, we got a fight at A21!'? An extra twenty second effort.
Just sayin.'
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This. You cannot change the dynamic of the game based upon a number on the clock, so for the moment this is the only fix.
No but you can do it based on the number of players.
Such as is done with ENY
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I'm sure this is obvious for everyone and has been brought up before, however:
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/bardar_zps509ff930.png~original)
It's the bardar, gents. That's it. A tool for the ten second scan. Bases still flash. Radar rings still work
(unless someone took it out). The buffer text still works. Is there nobody amongst the twenty or so
players on your side that will respond 'Yeah, we got a fight at A21!'? An extra twenty second effort.
Just sayin.'
cept that when HQ is down. Both dot dar and bar dar are down regardless of what is happening with the local dar ring
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cept that when HQ is down. Both dot dar and bar dar are down regardless of what is happening with the local dar ring
Which, with flashing bases and red radar rings as well as a roster count means it's not worth the time to type on country
channel (or 200, for that matter) to see if there's more than 65 girls doing milkruns and maybe get the precise coordinates
for a fight how? I see guys do that with the HQ up.
I guess a dead HQ isn't the crisis to me that i see others make of it. If new players are having as hard a time as is being
claimed, add it to the arena info that pops up.
"When your HQ is down so is your bardar and dotdar. You'll have to ask around to find a fight. P.S. Protect your HQ."
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"When your HQ is down so is your bardar and dotdar. You'll have to ask around to find a fight. P.S. Protect your HQ."
Just one of several examples, SFMA. How do you protect this HQ from a NOE raider?
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/noetohq_zpsf2c411e1.jpg)
(Ignore A10 beign green, that was just for testing purposes)
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HQ placement really needs to change, in some maps it's impossible to defend against raiders. In other maps you can't go NOE to the HQ, or must pass through some radars, but that's a minority. Same deal with AAA strats. In some maps a country will have it inside a radar circle, and another country won't. That doesn't really help balancing the game.
I wish we could go back to the central strats AND have the HQ by the city, protected by the city ack.
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I wish we could go back to the central strats AND have the HQ by the city, protected by the city ack.
:aok
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Which, with flashing bases and red radar rings as well as a roster count means it's not worth the time to type on country
channel (or 200, for that matter) to see if there's more than 65 girls doing milkruns and maybe get the precise coordinates
for a fight how? I see guys do that with the HQ up.
I guess a dead HQ isn't the crisis to me that i see others make of it. If new players are having as hard a time as is being
claimed, add it to the arena info that pops up.
"When your HQ is down so is your bardar and dotdar. You'll have to ask around to find a fight. P.S. Protect your HQ."
Here ya go. There are almost 200 players on. The bases that are red are the ones flashing. Wheres the fight? Remember your new and you may not even know what a flashing field means.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/map_zps7eb724b7.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/map_zps7eb724b7.jpg.html)
Lusche is pointing out that it is too easy to get close enough to hit HQ WITHOUT sending up any kind of warning flag, and when you do finally send one up there isn't anything in the game that can get there and save it.
The OP is point out that in a low populated arena this is what a new player will see. A few flashing bases. Even should they guess right and up at a flashing base how many time will they have to get vulched before they call it quits?
There is more to lose with dar being so devastating than there is to gain.
oh and by the way, in the picture above there is only one fight going, it's in the north. The others are single planes looking to do porking runs.
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HQ placement really needs to change, in some maps it's impossible to defend against raiders. In other maps you can't go NOE to the HQ, or must pass through some radars, but that's a minority. Same deal with AAA strats. In some maps a country will have it inside a radar circle, and another country won't. That doesn't really help balancing the game.
I wish we could go back to the central strats AND have the HQ by the city, protected by the city ack.
So ..... it's not so much HTC but map designers that may need to address the issue. Good point.
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So ..... it's not so much HTC but map designers that may need to address the issue. Good point.
HTC has to adress the imbalance.
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HTC has to address the imbalance.
Why? If the maps can be designed/redesigned to make HQ milk runs nearly impossible
for a single player to carry out, that seems to address the problem.
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Why? If the maps can be designed/redesigned to make HQ milk runs nearly impossible
for a single player to carry out seems that addresses the problem.
You only addressed part of the issue. As long as a single set of bombers can take down the HQ and downtimes & resupply system are what they are now, you have one single player being able to perform the by far most disruptive attack possible all on his own.
In my book that's just wrong. It should take a comparable massive amount of effort to destroy it , it the effort should at least somewhat scaled to the outcome.
When there are like 10 or even less active players in your country (yes, that's real numbers), you will often be hard pressed to get up any HQ defense at all, even if you can now see him coming all the time. Even then you have to take into account that actually many players can't afford a Me 163 at all. When there are 200+ in the arena, you'd probably right with "they should have defended" if the HQ was in a non-NOEable position. But with 30-50 players online total (of only a part is actually active at all), this is just illusionary.
So there's a single raider taking down the HQ for maybe 100 minutes. With so few players on, you can about forget resupping it under the current system, unless you put all of them in goons for a long time.
Harden the HQ to much more than 37,500 lbs, or cut the connection between city or HQ or find a different, less overall disruptive effect.
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Its also about people like myself who cannot spend hours in here on a regular basis. When I log on I want to see a fight so I can get up, get a few fights in before I have to leave. If the HQ is down, as has happened many times lately when I log on, I cannot waste time looking for a fight, so I log off right away. I am sure there are many people, new and old in the same situation. For those of us who cannot spend the time in here to worry about "winning the war" it needs to change to at least leave some indicator of where people are located.
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You only addressed part of the issue. As long as a single set of bombers can take down the HQ and downtimes & resupply system are what they are now, you have one single player being able to perform the by far most disruptive attack possible all on his own.
In my book that's just wrong. It should take a comparable massive amount of effort to destroy it , it the effort should at least somewhat scaled to the outcome.
When there are like 10 or even less active players in your country (yes, that's real numbers), you will often be hard pressed to get up any HQ defense at all, even if you can now see him coming all the time. Even then you have to take into account that actually many players can't afford a Me 163 at all. When there are 200+ in the arena, you'd probably right with "they should have defended" if the HQ was in a non-NOEable position. But with 30-50 players online total (of only a part is actually active at all), this is just illusionary.
So there's a single raider taking down the HQ for maybe 100 minutes. With so few players on, you can about forget resupping it under the current system, unless you put all of them in goons for a long time.
Harden the HQ to much more than 37,500 lbs, or cut the connection between city or HQ or find a different, less overall disruptive effect.
From your response (minus the first sentence) my suggestion completely addresses the issue (no partly about it). What you're saying is my suggestion isn't effective enough (surrounding the HQ with dar rings, ack and fields*). All you are doing is trying to drag HT into making the HQ take more bombs on top of that. Well ok then. But I don't see the necessity. In other words, to me, this is just one more 'Hey look. The sky is falling and its all HTC's fault. Game'll be dead because of it.' threads. Meanwhile Dale and co. are busting their collective tokusi to code us new graphics after which, iirc, so many threads telling us the sky was falling and its all HTC's fault because they refuse to make the game as pretty as WT (a game most agree doesn't hold a candle to AH, overall) spammed the forum (my advice to the masses - play more, whine less, post something more productive).
I've watched this thread go from -
I logged because I couldn't find a fight during off hours when someone took out my HQ.
to
Well, I might coulda found a fight if I tried a little harder but what about the new guys (as if we were never once)? They'll log quicker than me! Sky is falling - all HT's fault!
to
HT can fix this, we can't! (Even if, really, we could. Map makers can make it just as hard to bomb the HQ as HT can.) SKY REALLY IS FALLING! IT'S THE END!
*Remember your map example? There was that corridor for the sole porker to take advantage of. My suggestion addresses specifically that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now ..... I'd like to suggest all take a collective breath and think for a bit. This has been the HQ by design for awhile now. It's nothing new. Even a new guy should be able to wrap his noodle around it. The sky isn't falling. This isn't the end.
But .... someday this game will end. More than likely it'll be a tired Dale announcing Aces High is shutting the doors. He'll be professional, business-like and friendly about it. I can't help but think, though, (and it's just my take) that the thought 'You can please some of the customers all the time, you can please all of the customers some of the time (that's a rare miracle- usually countable in seconds) but you can't please all of them all of the time no matter how hard you try.' will have happened often enough to influence the decision (at least speed it up, maybe). Would me, you buncha ingrates. ;) :D :cheers:
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All you are doing is trying to drag HT into making the HQ take more bombs on top of that.
"drag HT in?"
So your proposal of redesigning all maps ain't? Because that's what it comes down to, if you want to "surrounding the HQ with dar rings, ack and fields)" they have to do exactly that. And it's even more work than just upping the HQ hardness or simply untie the connection to the City.
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"drag HT in?"
So your proposal of redesigning all maps ain't? Because that's what it comes down to, if you want to "surrounding the HQ with dar rings, ack and fields)" they have to do exactly that. And it's even more work than just upping the HQ hardness or simply untie the connection to the City.
Players design maps. HT approves or disapproves the design. Players CAN address this.
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Players design maps. HT approves or disapproves the design.
1) Not all maps have been made by players
2) Such changes to maps as proposed have to be done by HTC, not by the player who designed them in the first place (Many of those original map designers aren't even with AH anymore)
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Fine. Again, i don't see the crisis. 'All HT's fault and the reason the game will die.' doesn't move me. I'm thinking I've said all I really oughta in this thread. Good luck to everyone who still feels the need to pursue this. :) :salute :cheers:
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Okay Arlo, based on that, why is the game dying? And don't say that it isn't, any game that a few years ago had 500+ playing on Titanic Tuesday, even more with split arenas, and now has typically 220 on those nights, sometimes less, I check every night, and oft times at 9pm central there is 180 or less.
Everything, including the maps, are controlled by HTC. Fester did the most recent map addition. How long did it take him to get it approved after it was submitted? And even though by all accounts it's an excellent map, has that helped bring the numbers back up?
This particular HQ/Dar/Numbers issue is just one symptom in a patient with dozens of problems contributing to its failing health. The one thing all of these symptoms and problems have in common as they can only be treated by the intervention of one party - HTC. These non stop posts and threads about problems have been here since the beginning, but it's reached a crescendo in the last year or so, a trend that has matched the falling numbers on a chart (Lusche, want to make a chart showing increase in complaint/suggestion threads as they relate to falling numbers?). My point is that HTC is the only thing standing in the way of making changes to stem the flow of outgoing players, and back to my earlier question in the thread, how many changes have been implemented in the last few years? Lusche says only one in 2012, and a pretty minor one at that.
Arlo, you sound much like HTC when they choose to engage as they have in past threads like this (12 hour etc). It's the players problems, if they don't like it, adapt or leave, but don't blame HTC for any of the problems. That's ridiculous IMO, if your customers want something different, and you want to stay in business, you give it to them. If you choose not to, and instead put the onus and blame on them...well, the current numbers are the result of that. And this in a situation where there is no direct competition, it's not like this is Pepsi and if Pepsi won't change their flavor to what customers want, there's always Coke. HTC has the advantage of being the only game in town for this genre, yet still, massive outflux of players in the last few years.
I for one don't necessarily believe the game will "die", but it'll certainly become less fun for those around playing it still, if the numbers continue to slide, or even just stabilize where they are. None of us know HTC's financial position, it's possible they have the means to keep this open even if nobody subscribed due to other revenue streams. Even if that IS the case, why would anyone choose to not intercede and make changes if for no other reason to chart the results in terms of subscribers leaving/staying, is beyond me. I know that in my line of work, when a crisis/ambush occurs, the very worst thing you can choose to do is nothing. Nothing is what we've seen, vis a vis changes to the framework of the gameplay, now for several years, as like I said, somebody (Lusche) who would know says that there has been one slight change in recent memory, since the huge slide in subscriber numbers started at least.
The reason this frustrates me is I remember a very different HTC back in the beta and first years of the game. Active, friendly participation regarding gameplay mechanics, and aircraft models, and the like. Now, instead we get fights between HTC and members, threats of PNG/suspension if continued pressing of points and arguing continues, and a lot of plain old radio silence so far as intentions and plans go. It's gone from positive progressive to extremely negative and apathetic. Just my opinion. But based on the hundreds of threads like this, I know I'm not the only one with this opinion.
I would finish with this: Fine. Again, i don't see the crisis
I would retort that looking at the average numbers in the MA from just a couple/few years back to now, if you don't see a crisis, you just aren't paying attention. This little thread about this little issue may not seen to be a "crisis" by Arlo's definition, and maybe he's right. But add a number of these issues together, and that's precisely the problem IMO - many little issues make big issues, issues that HTC has not responded to; so their customers do instead. By leaving.
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I think there are alot of people on the sidelines with active accounts waiting for the new model to come out, perhaps with some of the changes that have been thrown around in here. If it is not an improvement in both visual and gameplay.....considering the monthly charge for the game.....more will leave.
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The reason this frustrates me is I remember a very different HTC back in the beta and first years of the game. Active, friendly participation regarding gameplay mechanics, and aircraft models, and the like.
You get frustrated a lot easier than I do. Right now Dale is busting his butt to get a graphic update completed for the players that went on about THAT being the reason the game doesn't have numbers. This is an update I knew would take more time and resources than adding a plane or changing an arena setting, then changing it again when the players still weren't happy. This is an update I (and several others) didn't ask for or need (though others made enough noise for it). But it's happening. It's taking a lot of effort to finish. I'll enjoy it just like you will but, honestly, if Dale jumped through his own backside every time a thread like this surfaced he'd go crazy and you really wouldn't have this game to complain about, anymore.
A very different HTC. I'll keep that in mind my next visit to HTC inc. (I really do need to visit more often. They will take the time to give a tour and even show how hard they are working to keep the customer base happy. Always a good visit.)
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Bingo.
Same whiners over and over again, I see more people leaving this game from the treatment they get on 200 from the same people that whine about how the game is played. :bhead
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Okay Arlo, based on that, why is the game dying?
Not because of the HQ. ;)
And not because of the GV control system, the lack of arena caps, the retirement of Trinity, the WW1 arena, the 12h rule, the collision model or any other singular reason that has has been brought up in this context in the past.
And possibly not even because of me :noid
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I see more people leaving this game from the treatment they get on 200 from the same people that whine about how the game is played
And again, that's something HTC could do something about if it chose to act, but hasn't.
So far as the new "update", don't make out like this all of a sudden fell into HTC's lap, that perhaps now, a major update, years and years after the last one, is somehow some hardship for them, and a massive bonus all the players should be appreciating. Compare HTC to any other subscription game - the improvements and changes are extremely few and far between compared to any of them, so HTC certainly isn't being harshly treated by it's customers in this regard. The graphics/engine/whatever update is just one thing on a long list of complaints and issues brought up in a consistent manner from customers. FYI I'm not one of them, as I haven't really played much in the last few years, just been a keen observer of the bbs and occasionally the MA. I'm just saying it as I'm seeing it, especially the HTC/customer relationship regarding the bbs. The reduced numbers nobody can argue about, and I again ask Arlo, if not all these various issues that action is never or at best rarely taken, then what is the cause, in an environment where there is NO competition out there for the product?
Again, there are many reasons for the collapse of the player base, few if any the players faults themselves, save perhaps the 200 "meanies" that make people leave, which again, is just another issue of many that hasn't seen any visible action taken to rectify or attempt to change.
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Not because of the HQ. ;)
And not because of the GV control system, the lack of arena caps, the retirement of Trinity, the WW1 arena, the 12h rule, the collision model or any other singular reason that has has been brought up in this context in the past.
And possibly not even because of me :noid
Don't forget:
Clouds
Can't squelch country vox
Spies
Channel 200
France being ignored
I'd go so far as to not blame all of it put together. Sometimes people can't afford even $15 a month. Sometimes life takes a turn. A lot of 'free to play' stuff surfaced and sometimes it'll draw away players even if the game isn't nearly as well designed as AH.
And yes, there may be a lot of players, like me, that just don't live in the arenas (anymore). It really is hard to determine how many active accounts exist just because you never see max capacity anymore.
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And again, that's something HTC could do something about if it chose to act, but hasn't.
*scratches head*
What do you suggest? There are just as many fans of channel 200. That becomes a choice, not a solution.
And no, I stopped tuning 200 years back. If a new (or even old) player uses that as an excuse to leave, I've got a solution for them that doesn't require HT. :)
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IF all that is true Arlo, explain Eve or any of the other games that have been around 8+ years or more like AH which cost the same amount. Why have these reasons you've given not affected their numbers, in fact, many such subscription games are flourishing despite current economics, life taking turns, and whatever else. And some of these games face fierce competition in the same genre, where again, AH no longer has WB, FB, or AW to compete with.
edit - the "wah 200 made me quit" proponents would be silenced if there was 24/7 active human moderation on channel 200. All the aforementioned other subscription massively multilayer games do it. I'm not a subscriber to the theory that the huge numbers lost in the MA have much to do with "200 made me cry and feel bad about myself, so I quit". I'm sure there are a few players who have thin enough skin that it was a major reason for them unsubbing, but even then, as Arlo just stated, there is the detune option available. It wouldn't be necessary with 24/7 moderation, at least not nearly as much by those that claim to be so bothered about it.
Again, there are many possible actions that can or could have been taken in the MA to respond to the huge numbers of complaints in the last few years, yet the only one that has happened was a slight strat tuning in 2012.
See I agree on some issues, they are largely subjective, spies, 200 meanies, and so on. There are numerous other issues, and even including the ones I personally feel from my perspective, that could have some sort of action taken, even in just a trial/temporary fashion. Instead, there is nothing, no actions taken at all. Numbers keep reducing themselves.
I've been saying for a while that the new update will bring many out of the woodwork. A short term spike in numbers will quiet a lot of the problems down, as more numbers = less issues IMO at least. The question is will these numbers have staying power, or will it just devolve back into a better looking version of what's going on now? I'll be happy for it to be the former, but I fear it'll be the latter. Then what.
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IF all that is true Arlo, explain Eve or any of the other games that have been around 8+ years or more like AH which cost the same amount. Why have these reasons you've given not affected their numbers, in fact, many such subscription games are flourishing despite current economics, life taking turns, and whatever else.
This is too easy. Eve online isn't a WWI/WWII dog-fighting sim (though it may be argued tat AH is more than). Our nich is typically older and smaller than EVE's. Same can be said for any other game outside AH's niche/genre. Even WT is a loose comparison. it's an arcade clicky pretty pic free-to-play (we'll get ya on the 'micro-purchase' anyway) game.
AH is the survivor of the competition with Warbirds and Fighter Ace.
Any game is as strong as it's supporters. I support this game.
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This thread gets sadder by the minute...
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This thread gets sadder by the minute...
It's even worse when you realize it's only 2 people going at it with their shades :rofl
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It's even worse when you realize it's only 2 people going at it with their shades :rofl
These are my shades:
(http://www.prsunglasses.com/images/details/6009SD.jpg)
Sometimes I wear them when I play.
Thanks for playing. :D
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So your saying you ENJOY running goons to HQ? You ENJOY dropping out of a mission to jump into a 163 to defend HQ against a lone set of lancs? Well thats great, now all we need is a couple hundred other players that ENJOY doing it too!
We have to remember that this is a game we are PAYING to play. If players cant find any place to play, why would they keep PAYING? That all this should boil down to. Just one more thing chasing people AWAY from the game. We need a few more things to make people want to STAY not leave. NOBODY enjoys running goons, NOBODY enjoys dropping out of a mission to defend HQ. We here to play and have fun.
Even prime time US last night (a Saturday night) the numbers never hit 300 players.
here comes the AH BB spamming/jamming Queen ! :lol
Dude, who cares about your opinion?! you are wasting your life on this BB;, you made your points clear polluting this BB with your endless 24/7 whinnies,; let this company get the right feedback from all paying customers.
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here comes the AH BB spamming/jamming Queen ! :lol
Dude, who cares about your opinion?! you are wasting your life on this BB;, you made your points clear polluting this BB with your endless 24/7 whinnies,; let this company get the right feedback from all paying customers.
Even though I'm not as critical as Fugi about this, that was harsh ghi. It sounds a bit over the top and uncalled for. Just sayin'. :)
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Ok I'm a paying customer, and the dar going down during the off hours is just lame. I don't care about the peak times there is more people on to defend it or re supp it. Oh and I'm not " one of those furballers"
As was posted earlier in the thread. I enjoy the entire game. Hell I even love being in the 8" guns hammering a town, then fighting to take it. But if I log (off hrs) and see the dar down ill log 9 out if 10 times. I only get about 2 hrs on sat and sun mornings to play and I'm not going to beat my head against a wall trying to find a fight when it's already a bit tough to find one.
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AH is the survivor of the competition with Warbirds and Fighter Ace.
Any game is as strong as it's supporters. I support this game.
I agree with that. The problem is, where are all the supporters? I support it as well, even though I don't play it, and I know at least a 1/2 dozen others that currently do the same. There is likely more. That doesn't mean I'm going to blindly praise or not point out what look like obvious problems. I would also say that any game that wants to STAY strong will only be as strong as its ability to adapt. No real changes in several years is a prime example of the opposite behavior of this.
The numbers have been and are continuing to decline. This is the bottom line. You still have given no real opinion of your own as to the reasons why, and I maintain the reasons I've given. You're right, AH won the war between WB and FA. Where are all the customers from that fallout? Something must be wrong when you defeat your competition, yet you still have negative growth over a long period of time (several years now). HTC refuses to acknowledge this, and continues to squash any requests for change on a great myriad of subjects regarding the game. Instead, HTC either remains comms dark, or chooses to engage some customers in bbs arguments, and when customers continue to argue their points, they get threatened with PNG and suspensions. It's a very strange alternative that's difficult to understand, yet those numbers keep ticking down.
Again, I don't particularly care about this subject from the OP, even though I do agree with it. It's just my observation, and that of others, that there are many such issues as this HQ/Dar/timezone one, I can list a dozen off the top of my head that have many passionate supporters. Put that all together, and your "strong supporters" seem much fewer in number than they should be.
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HTC has to address the imbalance.
Amen.
Although I think the toothpaste is already out of the tube on this one.
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The numbers have been and are continuing to decline. This is the bottom line.
The numbers you see on at any given moment. I may fly a total of 3 days out of the month (an hour or two each time). I may kick it up to twice that if I feel the yearning. My sub pays for all i can eat as much as i want. I'm finding out that my example isn't unusual. WW just admitted it as well. I've heard others. Just cause players don't invest as much time doesn't mean players don't invest and support. :)
I'm willing to bet things aren't as dire as some seem to WANT to believe.
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It's just my observation, and that of others, that there are many such issues as this HQ/Dar/timezone one, I can list a dozen off the top of my head that have many passionate supporters. Put that all together, and your "strong supporters" seem much fewer in number than they should be.
Dude. HTC is a very small team. They don't have the human resources to do all of the things that people howl for. That's why AH is here, and AW is not.
We all sense that they're pouring everything into graphics development, and now we see some Help videos to get newcomers over the first big wall. Hopefully there's an advertising plan behind that. These are the most sensible basic priorities. By comparison, VOX squelching, HQ porking, fuel loadouts, resupply times, 1946 aircraft and so on are very small fish.
Keep the faith.
- oldman
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The numbers you see on at any given moment. I may fly a total of 3 days out of the month (an hour or two each time). I may kick it up to twice that if I feel the yearning. My sub pays for all i can eat as much as i want. I'm finding out that my example isn't unusual. WW just admitted it as well. I've heard others. Just cause players don't invest as much time doesn't mean players don't invest and support. Smiley
I'm willing to bet things aren't as dire as some seem to WANT to believe.
And I fly less than that, maybe an hour tops total a month for the last 2 years averaged. What I DO do is click on my AH icon on any of the home theater pc's I have connected to all 4 TVs in the house, and check out the numbers and see if anyone I haven't seen in a long time is on. This takes seconds, not minutes. This is where I'm getting the observed numbers from. I check several times a day, often without even logging in. I don't disagree though that 15$ a month for a few hours a month is still a good deal, it is, especially compared to the rates back in the history of other games like WB and such. But, if you're trying to say that the low numbers are a result of players like you and I who continue to subscribe, but just not play, that's a little much, especially when you used "hard times" as one of your earlier reasons for the decline in numbers, which is in direct conflict with such a sentiment.
Also, let me be clear - I'm not one of the ones complaining about this issue or that (other than bbs moderation, but that isn't a game function). I'm just observing the many who do, and commenting on their issues and complaints, and how that relates to the game losing players and numbers. Some issues I support, some I think are ridiculous, but the point is that they are legion, and decreasing numbers occurring along with that may just lead anyone, even a disinterested observer, to put two and two together.
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Amen, OM. Amen.
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But, if you're trying to say that the low numbers are a result of players like you and I who continue to subscribe, but just not play, that's a little much, especially when you used "hard times" as one of your earlier reasons for the decline in numbers, which is in direct conflict with such a sentiment.
I'm using it to find reasonable ground. The arenas aren't packed but the sky ain't fallin'. And development really is working it's arse off for us. I've never taken particularly well to whine, I reckon. I certainly don't when I don't see cause.
It's all good.
Pax? :cheers:
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Oldman, I would ask, in 1999 to say 2003, was HTC not roughly the same size? Measure the changes and constant communication back then, even after "Aces High 2", and compare that to now. See the difference?
I don't disagree regarding the upcoming update, I too hope there is a "plan" that is more than just making prettier terrain, horizons, and ground objects, but real world gameplay changes, additions and consolidations of the game manual for new players (and old), and a more streamlined system to get and keep new players. I wouldn't be here talking if I didn't hope for that. Yet, again, my earlier point about that - comms dark, there hasn't been any news regarding future plans in such areas.
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Where do you see me whine? As I said, I've never brought up any of these issues, I'm just pointing out that they exist, continue to be constantly brought up, yet no changes or much discussion about them is ever forthcoming from HTC, and the numbers have been steadily declining. If you can't see that, and say catchphrases like "the sky isn't falling", that's fine, but going from the near 600 nights of recent memory to half that on the best nights - it was 300 ish last night, and 276 right now - if you don't see a problem with that, well bob's you uncle I guess.
If I did a search of this BBS for the last 2 years with the terms "declining numbers" and other synonyms, I'd get the LA phone book. It's not some crazy out there made up issue I'm bringing up here, I'm just repeating what those who've brought up complaints have been consistently saying, heck, even those who don't complain. I think you'll be in a minority Arlo if you were to say "the numbers haven't declined, it's all smoke and mirrors, sky isn't falling, guys are just subbing and not playing" or whatever other thing you can come up with.
Would you honestly say that not having a single major gameplay change in at least 3 years, according to what Lusche searched out, that piddly little strat adjustment back over 2.5 years ago in 2012, with nothing before that in recent times he could find - would you honestly say that any game out there not adapting or changing in such a long period of time is making a mistake?
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Would you honestly say that not having a single major gameplay change in at least 3 years, according to what Lusche searched out, that piddly little strat adjustment back over 2.5 years ago in 2012, with nothing before that in recent times he could find - would you honestly say that any game out there not adapting or changing in such a long period of time is making a mistake?
Generally spoken, you can also change a game to death ;)
AH also had relatively few major gameplay changes during the times of rising numbers as well.
It's my firm belief that the generally lower popularity of AH has little to do with not twiddling this or that knob. Even though want several knobs & sliders being adjusted myself and may even leave over it.
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here comes the AH BB spamming/jamming Queen ! :lol
Dude, who cares about your opinion?! you are wasting your life on this BB;, you made your points clear polluting this BB with your endless 24/7 whinnies,; let this company get the right feedback from all paying customers.
Ahhh GHI did I strike a nerve? I noticed you didn't answer any of the questions I posed.
You certainly are not the one to decide whether my feedback is right or not, only HTC can decide that. Until HTC "speaks" my feedback is just as valid as anyone else.
While I would hate to say "the sky is falling", it certainly doesn't look all that rosie right now. I'll be one of the last to leave.... IF it ever comes to that and I'll support HTC with my subscription until there isn't anything to support. My hope is that they have more plans than just a graphics update. The job they are doing on it ....through the snippets of info we get to see, looks great, but it certainly won't be enough to push this game back up to decent numbers.
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It's my firm belief that the generally lower popularity of AH has little to do with not twiddling this or that knob. Even though want several knobs & sliders being adjusted myself and may even leave over it.
Well if that sentence won't make you talk to yourself, nothing will. It would be a big loss for the AH community if you did, I'll say that much for nothing. You have my attention with your conflicting statements there - what in your opinion ARE the reasons for the decline in popularity which if you were to put on one of your spanky charts, would show a large downward trend starting just a few years ago, compared to the previous 11 or 12 years of the game's existence?
edit - I'm the same as Fugitive, I've been around long enough that I may as well stay, I won't leave unless they either kick me out or close the doors. I still won't cheerlead when I see things that IMO are obviously large customer relations issues, particularly when compared with the way HTC operated in its inception and the few following years after that.
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Killed bish HQ again...
It didn't have that crisp cracking sound like it usually does, I guess their construction materials are getting cheap...
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People have always been leaving because of getting tired of the game itself or over individual matters, even in the golden past.
When I decide to leave the game over a certain, limited 'issue', it's a personal thing and doesn't mean at all the game is 'dying' because of it.
Remember the arena caps introduction? MANY players totally went ballistic over it (including myself), creating the largest complaint threads to date... but didn't hurt the player numbers at all. AH reached it's peak long after that. Or the big Gv control system change...
what in your opinion ARE the reasons for the decline in popularity
My personal thoughts, in no particular order:
-graphics
-more online gaming competition (yes, non flight games are competition too)
-change in player demographics (less diehard WW2 aviation fans)
-UI
-account management
-appearance & functionality of the website
-much less gamers with joysticks available these days
-economy and competition by seductive (but treacherous) 'free to play' games
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-appearance & functionality of the website
Wonder if HTC would accept a new site... :noid
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Whats up with u lot , we in the uk put up with low numbers all the time or stay up till stupid o clock.
how do htc or us as players attract and keep new players when no-one here has even heard of ah , i.ve been gaming for over 10 yrs and until i ditched my ps3 i,d not heard of it but i knew about wt and wot .
if you want to sell something try marketing it properly and just for information these sort of discussions have been going on in GRAN TURISMO forums for years guess what changed A BIG FAT ZERO
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This is a niche game. Although, a good point about off hours markets not having much attention paid to it. Someone did recently post a thread discussing the AH disk including free subscription promotion, so I am sure Dale has real data on cost-benefit projections.
Dale is doing just fine right now, with choosing to concentrate on the roll out of the graphics update. Although I would wish that there would be a break in the silence on this matter. Even just a statement acknowledging difficulties with finding alternatives that would not potentially drive even more debate.
Speaking of the latter, I was one of the most outspoken advocates of making strat and HQ involvement in strategic game play more important. They came up with a system that does just that. I am very pleased with the connection to country rebuild and down times. :rock But :eek: blinding a country for more than 2 hours :rolleyes: That is a LONG, LONG way from being down for 15 minutes. I am certain that there is a balance that could be reached, or preferably another avenue for rewarding good game play strategy without ruining the ability of players finding quick and meaningful engagements.
Take a page from Fester's map design that produces constant action. Hell, if someone takes out HQ on Fester, no one cares... the interactions are abundant and predictable. :cheers:
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People have always been leaving because of getting tired of the game itself or over individual matters, even in the golden past.
When I decide to leave the game over a certain, limited 'issue', it's a personal thing and doesn't mean at all the game is 'dying' because of it.
Remember the arena caps introduction? MANY players totally went ballistic over it (including myself), creating the largest complaint threads to date... but didn't hurt the player numbers at all. AH reached it's peak long after that. Or the big Gv control system change...
My personal thoughts, in no particular order:
-graphics
-more online gaming competition (yes, non flight games are competition too)
-change in player demographics (less diehard WW2 aviation fans)
-UI
-account management
-appearance & functionality of the website
-much less gamers with joysticks available these days
-economy and competition by seductive (but treacherous) 'free to play' games
It did not _directly_ hurt subscriptions, maybe because due to AW death a flux of new players were coming in. But after that it wasn't long when the arena caps were suddenly not necessary anymore because people just stopped playing. Why did that happen?
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It did not _directly_ hurt subscriptions, maybe because due to AW death a flux of new players were coming in.
AW had been shut down for 5 years already when the arena caps were introduced.
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My personal thoughts, in no particular order:
-graphics
-more online gaming competition (yes, non flight games are competition too)
-change in player demographics (less diehard WW2 aviation fans)
-UI
-account management
-appearance & functionality of the website
-much less gamers with joysticks available these days
-economy and competition by seductive (but treacherous) 'free to play' games
Adding my thoughts.
Tablet sales are expected to top PC sales totaling both lab tops and desk tops sells together.
One overlooked problems with numbers decline is the increased concentration of really good, hardcore players making it harder for average players to win a fight. Average players need new meat to stay competitive.
Lusche Thinking about the plane types I run into in AH, is the average ENY plane value of planes selected in AH trending down?
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Lusche Thinking about the plane types I run into in AH, is the average ENY plane value of planes selected in AH trending down?
This is difficult to judge correctly, as the individual ENY values have been changing over the years.
Some time ago I used the (kill+death) stats combined with the fighters top speeds on deck to see if there was any trend towards more faster planes... and found the resulting 'average top speed' was indeed increasing over the years... slightly but constantly.
However what exactly causes this, or if it's merely a result of a changed environment is not clear at all.
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AW had been shut down for 5 years already when the arena caps were introduced.
Was it WB then or what? I remember the caps happening at the same time when there were new players from some other sim.
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None of them happened during the time of the Arena Split.
AW shut down in Dec 2001. AH got a large surge in online numbers because of this and also because the price was dropped by half in Aug 2001 as well. Numbers kinda stabilized after that on a somewhat lower level.
In 2004, AH II was introduced causing a very sharp drop in online numbers. After that, numbers began to rise slowly but steadily.
In Sept 2006, the arenas were split and the arena cap was introduced. Online numbers continued to rise until about late 2007 / early 2008 (HT once stated subscriber numbers peaking in early 2008).
From then on, online numbers were going down quite steadily.
FA shut down in Jul 2010
WB still exists
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Thanks Lusche for reply. I guessed that the number of La7s, yaks and P51s are increasing
There is an old marketing saying that fits here. When a guy goes to the hardware store to buy a 1/4" drill bit a smart marketing man knows what that guy really wants is a 1/4" hole.
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I wish people would quit telling others how to play. I've been playing for only a couple of years and don't find it difficult at all to find combat when HQ is down. I'm sure it's even easier for you old hands. There are many facets to the game besides just dogfighting. That's one of the many things that makes it's the best game going. I'm sure, not too long after all of your tear filled so longs on the BBS, most of you will be back in a new disguise because there is simply nothing else on the web like it. Thank you Skuzzy and company for the great game.
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I wish people would quit telling others how to play. I've been playing for only a couple of years and don't find it difficult at all to find combat when HQ is down. I'm sure it's even easier for you old hands. There are many facets to the game besides just dogfighting. That's one of the many things that makes it's the best game going. I'm sure, not too long after all of your tear filled so longs on the BBS, most of you will be back in a new disguise because there is simply nothing else on the web like it. Thank you Skuzzy and company for the great game.
...and as a new player logging in for the first couple of times to find all dar down, how is he going to find fights? THAT is what the OP is trying to point out.
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Well, it took me many many months to even realize there was a dar much less how it worked. And the much longer still to use it effectively to find fights. But that was fine since it was all I could do just to stay in the air for more than a few minutes. I think it's easy to forgot how steep and long the learning curve is to this game. The new guys aren't logging off be ause HQ is down. I can tell immediately when I'm fighting a newer player and I'll often fight my preferred Mustang outside it's strengths and let the nee guy get a kill. It's just a game after all and it will only be as good as the player base. The only thing that would ever chase me from the game are guys like Rumal or whatever his name is now. Fortunately, there are more decent folks here than his ilk.
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OP, Fugitive, and Chilli are dead on.
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OP, Fugitive, and Chilli are dead on.
I was dead on too.
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I was dead on too.
I was alive on, I win.
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...and as a new player logging in for the first couple of times to find all dar down, how is he going to find fights? THAT is what the OP is trying to point out.
Yes. Particularly during the non prime hours.
During times with higher numbers its much easier to find something or see something is going on somewhere.
during off hours its much more difficult especially with the large maps. Often because they are zoomed out to look like a big blob.
Your average new user doesnt know how to work the map or even what a flashing base means. But during prime hours if you stay in the tower upon entry into an areana. Other people tend to show up regularly. You can see names showing up and often even hear chatter in the tower. Or see alot of text moving in the buffer During off hours. Nobody else might not show up for quite some time. To them. No darbar. no dots,no voice chatter. No names in the tower listed, no charrer in text buffer, and just maybe a couple of bases flashing to them it looks like nobody is there.
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I was dead on too.
You usually are. This thread is likely no exception. I just forgot what was said by everyone by this point... It is a mess. It needs to be fixed.
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You usually are. This thread is likely no exception. I just forgot what was said by everyone by this point... It is a mess. It needs to be fixed.
Well, you could type 'The sky is falling just like it did in FA!' in caps a dozen times.
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Well, you could type 'The sky is falling just like it did in FA!' in caps a dozen times.
Arlo,
It is quite unusual that you are taking such a HARD line on something that does cause concern for a number of players. This thread, as well as others, has provided some intelligent and logical discussion, minus the bickering.
I have to ask, how often do you play online and on what days and time? When was the last time that you played online? These are serious questions, and I am not attempting to be rude or make any judgement.
It is just confusing to me that if I were to POLL players that are online at the time that I am, the overwhelming number of them with opinions would consider HQ downtime and current balance a problem that does reduce the availability of fights. They most certainly would testify that it both causes players to log off, or at the very least move on to activities (including resupply) that do NOT involve interaction with enemies.
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Arlo,
It is quite unusual that you are taking such a HARD line on something that does cause concern for a number of players. This thread, as well as others, has provided some intelligent and logical discussion, minus the bickering.
I have to ask, how often do you play online and on what days and time? When was the last time that you played online? These are serious questions, and I am not attempting to be rude or make any judgement.
It is just confusing to me that if I were to POLL players that are online at the time that I am, the overwhelming number of them with opinions would consider HQ downtime and current balance a problem that does reduce the availability of fights. They most certainly would testify that it both causes players to log off, or at the very least move on to activities (including resupply) that do NOT involve interaction with enemies.
That was for Vrac. He's been a 'Sky is falling just like in FA' guy since he got here. ;) I was online night before last (or was it last night?) I'll likely be on tonight. :D
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Arlo,
It is quite unusual that you are taking such a HARD line on something that does cause concern for a number of players. This thread, as well as others, has provided some intelligent and logical discussion, minus the bickering.
I have to ask, how often do you play online and on what days and time? When was the last time that you played online? These are serious questions, and I am not attempting to be rude or make any judgement.
It is just confusing to me that if I were to POLL players that are online at the time that I am, the overwhelming number of them with opinions would consider HQ downtime and current balance a problem that does reduce the availability of fights. They most certainly would testify that it both causes players to log off, or at the very least move on to activities (including resupply) that do NOT involve interaction with enemies.
I have had Arlo on ignore for months. The rare times I read what he writes are when someone else quotes him.
I never played FA. I played WBs. The numbers and trend now are exactly what I saw there a few short years ago. There is no denying the falloff and it will probably accelerate if past is prologue. Anything that is a deterrent to finding and keeping new players (not to mention veteran players) needs to be (re)evaluated.
The OP is right as are those who agree with him. Fix it already, please.
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I have had Arlo on ignore for months. The rare times I read what he writes are when someone else quotes him.
I never played FA. I played WBs. The numbers and trend now are exactly what I saw there a few short years ago. There is no denying the falloff and it will probably accelerate if past is prologue. Anything that is a deterrent to finding and keeping new players (not to mention veteran players) needs to be (re)evaluated.
The OP is right as are those who agree with him. Fix it already, please.
:)
Warbirds, FA, meh .... but see what I mean? Prettymuch a doom and gloom broken record. I had hopes for this WB immigrant what with the classy cpid/forum name and all.
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Have it disable dot dar only which is precise GCI information...bar dar is like the Observer Corps and other low-tech spread out assets giving info on enemy planes...like the Aussie Coast Watchers say. If a large formation of bombers flies over someplace its going to be observed by somebody..."there are enemy planes here someplace".
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With the HQ being such a valuable asset to all countries, It'd REALLY POORLY protected (ack) and very light with how much damage it takes to kill it.
I think if BOTH these were increased, say more anti-AC flak around the HQ, and say 100k ib needed to kill it, things would change.
Agree 100% -- HQ should be too hard for a single box of bombers to take out (even B29s) -- and the AAA around it should make it suicidal to even try with a single box.
During primetime, with numbers on I have no problem with getting up a big raid to take HQ down.
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Agree 100% -- HQ should be too hard for a single box of bombers to take out (even B29s) -- and the AAA around it should make it suicidal to even try with a single box.
During primetime, with numbers on I have no problem with getting up a big raid to take HQ down.
I disagree. HQ is protected by 163s (unless there are eny issues for the target country) and any big mission deep inside enemy territory is going to see a lot of opposition. The net result of many of the suggestions in this thread would be that HQ almost never goes down; and if so, what's the point of having one?
The buff pilot who tries to take down HQ expends considerable time and effort to get there with no guarantee he'll succeed. Take away the reward or make it much harder to take down and, again, HQ will rarely die.
Fwiw, I fly buffs a lot but have taken down an HQ maybe 2x in the 2 years I've been playing. Imo the effort put into killing HQ is better put, in a strategic sense, into taking down a factory or the enemy city instead.
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any big mission deep inside enemy territory is going to see a lot of opposition.
Those kind of missions are getting more and more sparse due to low numbers and a dispersed strat system. Also, nobody would launch to oppose such a mission if the defenders never knew such a mission was occurring (i.e. the HQ is dead and there is no darbar).
Here's the reality: The current HQ system promotes combat for the few who up to defend it, and deters combat for almost everyone else. So we can all cede that point to those who subscribe to the "well y don't ya up to defend the HQ" argument.
As for everyone else, the HQ system hinders the fight. Any game mechanic that has such a detrimental effect on combat for so may players is at face value, a terrible mechanic, and a difficult one to defend in the face of the criticism posted in this thread and in others.