Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Lucifer on February 03, 2014, 05:37:19 PM
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<S>
Plz set a perk penalty for these guys who ruin others fun :
Taking off to intercept a bombers formation, take time to climb and suddenly they just... bailed.
Its really a problem as we go "specialists" now doing it every day... :frown:
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HiTech thinks it's fine
Deal with it :old:
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I've only done it once as long as I can remember, and I can say I was perfectly justified in doing so.
I read a text message on the room channel: "anyone seen 2cmex and his damn tempest?"
"Yeah, he was motoring home just a bit ago. He was only at 6k, if anyones got a lot of smash"
And what do you think happened to appear at long-6 o'clock, right around 6k? You guessed it; a Typhoon icon. I waited until he closed to 3k and bailed on him. Oh the howls of rage and fury that were heard on CH 200.
Later, I even helped SYSTEM kill one of his Tempests.
As I logged off for the night, I found myself thinking:
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/011/644/27751394.jpg)
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I've only done it once as long as I can remember, and I can say I was perfectly justified in doing so.
I read a text message on the room channel: "anyone seen 2cmex and his damn tempest?"
"Yeah, he was motoring home just a bit ago. He was only at 6k, if anyones got a lot of smash"
And what do you think happened to appear at long-6 o'clock, right around 6k? You guessed it; a Typhoon icon. I waited until he closed to 3k and bailed on him. Oh the howls of rage and fury that were heard on CH 200.
Later, I even helped SYSTEM kill one of his Tempests.
As I logged off for the night, I found myself thinking:
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/011/644/27751394.jpg)
Let's clarify: You bailed out of undamaged planes just to grief another player? Then later you ganged that player specifically, so you could irritate them further? Then you logged off with satisfaction and pride of what you had done?
You are a real class act.
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Let's clarify: You bailed out of undamaged planes just to grief another player? Then later you ganged that player to irritate them further? Then you logged off with satisfaction and pride of what you had done?
You are a real class act.
Only a select few individuals get such treatment.
So far, only MANoWAR and 2cmex have made me grief them.
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Let's clarify: You bailed out of undamaged planes just to grief another player? (...)
You are a real class act.
A class act that usually complains ad naseum about "people not fighting, ganging, vulching" and repeatedly stated that "AH were much better off without them" :)
Only a select few individuals get such treatment.
So far, only MANoWAR and 2cmex have made me grief them.
I see... others are low lifes for doing this... but YOU of course have a valid reason to do so...
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Only a select few individuals get such treatment.
So far, only MANoWAR and 2cmex have made me grief them.
People don't "make" you do things. It is your choice to do things and allowing them to bait you into stooping to their level doesn't excuse it.
That said, I've never found 2cmex to be anyone to avoid a fight or not return a salute when shot down. I've always thought of him as a good stick who fights hard. I don't care for his choice in mouthy, petty wingmen he's taken under his wing, though, so perhaps you are confusing them?
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I like 2cmex and enjoy flying against him. He has a knack for showing up when I'm low slow and out of everything.. I guess that's what makes him so much damn fun. :aok
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That said, I've never found 2cmex to be anyone to avoid a fight or not return a salute when shot down.
Agreed. He's talented enough that you wonder why he keeps flying a Temp, but I've had no problems with his behavior, seems quite pleasant.
- oldman
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Agreed. He's talented enough that you wonder why he keeps flying a Temp, but I've had no problems with his behavior, seems quite pleasant.
- oldman
You're talented enough that I wonder why you concern yourself with what other people fly.. :P
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What got me is when he in his tempest and 2 others in Nikis proceeded to cap a field (no base-take attempt, they completely ignored vehicles, etc), and orbited around the field for a solid 10 minutes, ganging anyone who tried to up. As soon as you got out of range of ack, or broke about 4k, they dove in on you.
When I asked him about it via CH 200, he said, "We're just looking for a fight". I was already disinclined to like him because he almost exclusively flys Tempests it seems. That just piled more on for me; anyone setting up like that with two wingmen is most emphatically not looking for a fight.
Later the same day as the griefing, I took a K4 to tank town. There's 3 G-14's around 15k (luckily I was at 23k after an AFK autoclimb). No way he knew it was me. The two wingmen are trying to bait me down, while he climbs up 3k away. I'm maneuvering with him, his wingmen climb up, and get on my six. Now not to be mean, but these guys obviously don't know what the hell they're doing in the 109. So I'm essentially beating his two wingmen in a fight, and he's used that chance to setup and come in with E. Shoots me down.
Now at this point, I'm really on the fence. Previous experience with trolling for easy kills, flys exclusively tempests near enough (Up until that point, I had no idea it was 2cmex; frankly I thought I had run into some AoM guys right up until the wingmen start maneuvering with me). But he fought smart, even if he did pretty much use his wingmen as tools to set himself up for a kill. Then on CH 200: "Lol, PWND!!!!!!".
Now think about that; 3v1, takes a solid 7 minutes for them to take me down. I'm beating the crap out of his wingmen, who he simply used to set himself up for a kill. And apparently I got "PWND!!!!" That's what killed it for me.
As for MANaWAR, I don't feel any shame what so ever. He had so many chances to prove hes something more than a troll, and proudly failed every single time; if I can make him mad, I've won. End of story.
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I've only done it once as long as I can remember, and I can say I was perfectly justified in doing so.
I read a text message on the room channel: "anyone seen 2cmex and his damn tempest?"
"Yeah, he was motoring home just a bit ago. He was only at 6k, if anyones got a lot of smash"
And what do you think happened to appear at long-6 o'clock, right around 6k? You guessed it; a Typhoon icon. I waited until he closed to 3k and bailed on him. Oh the howls of rage and fury that were heard on CH 200.
Later, I even helped SYSTEM kill one of his Tempests.
As I logged off for the night, I found myself thinking:
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/011/644/27751394.jpg)
ruaml is a bee ya tch
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I remember 2cmex, not cause he was a great flyer or anything, he was one of those people who flew around the DA at furball lake at 15k in a tempest lol.
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<S>
Plz set a perk penalty for these guys who ruin others fun :
Taking off to intercept a bombers formation, take time to climb and suddenly they just... bailed.
Its really a problem as we go "specialists" now doing it every day... :frown:
so your mad--because he/they/she--bailed so you could not get any points for shooting down them down....maybe we ought to hunt he/she down-tie him to a stake and flay him.....<---got tired of sayin he/she/them
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so your mad--because he/they/she--bailed so you could not get any points for shooting down them down....maybe we ought to hunt he/she down-tie him to a stake and flay him.....<---got tired of sayin he/she/them
While your suggestion to actually flay bomb-and-bailers is an interesting idea, I like the OP's suggestion better. A perk penalty for bailing out of an undamaged plane seems much more reasonable and more easily implemented. That or simply don't enable bailing (enter 3x) until a plane has actually lost critical parts.
And you must really hate bomb-and-bailers, luny, to want to physically do them harm. I agree they are a scourge of the game, but you are taking it to another level.
;)
Ryno
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Peace and Hair Grease
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What got me is when he in his tempest and 2 others in Nikis proceeded to cap a field (no base-take attempt, they completely ignored vehicles, etc), and orbited around the field for a solid 10 minutes, ganging anyone who tried to up. As soon as you got out of range of ack, or broke about 4k, they dove in on you.
When I asked him about it via CH 200, he said, "We're just looking for a fight". I was already disinclined to like him because he almost exclusively flys Tempests it seems. That just piled more on for me; anyone setting up like that with two wingmen is most emphatically not looking for a fight.
Later the same day as the griefing, I took a K4 to tank town. There's 3 G-14's around 15k (luckily I was at 23k after an AFK autoclimb). No way he knew it was me. The two wingmen are trying to bait me down, while he climbs up 3k away. I'm maneuvering with him, his wingmen climb up, and get on my six. Now not to be mean, but these guys obviously don't know what the hell they're doing in the 109. So I'm essentially beating his two wingmen in a fight, and he's used that chance to setup and come in with E. Shoots me down.
Now at this point, I'm really on the fence. Previous experience with trolling for easy kills, flys exclusively tempests near enough (Up until that point, I had no idea it was 2cmex; frankly I thought I had run into some AoM guys right up until the wingmen start maneuvering with me). But he fought smart, even if he did pretty much use his wingmen as tools to set himself up for a kill. Then on CH 200: "Lol, PWND!!!!!!".
Now think about that; 3v1, takes a solid 7 minutes for them to take me down. I'm beating the crap out of his wingmen, who he simply used to set himself up for a kill. And apparently I got "PWND!!!!" That's what killed it for me.
As for MANaWAR, I don't feel any shame what so ever. He had so many chances to prove hes something more than a troll, and proudly failed every single time; if I can make him mad, I've won. End of story.
Who cares. It's a game. They baited you and you were dumb enough to swallow the bait hook line and sinker.
Did you ever think that instead of "using" his wingmen they were all working together the whole time? Did you ever think it took seven minutes only because you had an 8K alt advantage to start (and still lost)?
BTW, how many of his wingmen that you were "beating the crap out of" did you kill? 0?
< Shakes head... walks away.
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the problem with bomb and bailers is that they do it to essentially, game the game. the bombers fly to town, drop the load, wf it, they bail, reup, deack and bring a goon. to me, there is no integrity in doing this. ive had a person get mad at me, bc i wouldnt bomb and bail. we didnt get the town, and this person ripped me a new one. for me, i want to take the town the right way, using tactics and timing. not, imo only, playing dirty. to me, it defeats the purpose of taking on a challenge. its bottom line, xbox tactics.
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the problem with bomb and bailers is that they do it to essentially, game the game. the bombers fly to town, drop the load, wf it, they bail, reup, deack and bring a goon. to me, there is no integrity in doing this. ive had a person get mad at me, bc i wouldnt bomb and bail. we didnt get the town, and this person ripped me a new one. for me, i want to take the town the right way, using tactics and timing. not, imo only, playing dirty. to me, it defeats the purpose of taking on a challenge. its bottom line, xbox tactics.
Couldn't agree more. :aok
I would love to see them either remove this exploit from the game or more heavily penalize it in terms of perks.
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Award a proximity kill x 3 to the nearest enemy even if out of icon range. Problem solved.
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Let's clarify: You bailed out of undamaged planes just to grief another player? Then later you ganged that player specifically, so you could irritate them further? Then you logged off with satisfaction and pride of what you had done?
You are a real class act.
I dont like 2cmex, anyone can tell. But bailing only to piss someone off, then even telling it proudly like it was a heroic act; well it just sucks.
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Bomb and bail with no damage, no perks awarded, and how about damage inflicted is removed, as if no bombs were dropped. There should definitely be things done to remove the the benefits of "gaming the game. This isn't the only way the game is gamed/
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the problem with bomb and bailers is that they do it to essentially, game the game. the bombers fly to town, drop the load, wf it, they bail, reup, deack and bring a goon. to me, there is no integrity in doing this. ive had a person get mad at me, bc i wouldnt bomb and bail. we didnt get the town, and this person ripped me a new one. for me, i want to take the town the right way, using tactics and timing. not, imo only, playing dirty. to me, it defeats the purpose of taking on a challenge. its bottom line, xbox tactics.
+1
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Another post that demonstrates the questionable benefit of ch200. Turn it off guys.
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with the smaller towns and bases years ago, we would bring enough guys to take out the town, kill the ack at the base and capture the whole thing in one shot. it took tactics skill and cunning. we always landed the bombers.
we once hit strats in b17's and i got shot up and glided a b17 2 sectors to land it.
there are some that say that there are no rules and that you can fly anyway you want. then there are those that say bomb and bail and hoing and god knows how many other tactics are gamey and dweeby. is it gamey and dweeby? depends on your idea of fun. its not a life or death thing, so unless we mount shotguns on our monitors to go off when we die, its still just a game.
just remember the expression "there is no honor among thieves". it's a game and you're anonymous. theres no accountability. you can do and play however you like. some of us play cleaner then others, but at the end of the day the only thing you have to live with is your conscience.
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-10000000 for this idea, or if so then same goes with fighters and gv's. The problem I have with this is sometimes I might have just upped off a field to go bomb something and some one might call out a mission IB to a base so I bail to go help, so should I lose perks for this? No! So this is 100% bad idea. This is just another part of what this game has turned into, hordes, ho's, picking, runners, ack huggers on and on and on. If you don't want to waste you time then just let bomber be.....problem fixed! :salute
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Don't worry y'all....just to make you feel better the rest of our squad will stay away from 2cmex and I will have a talk with him to stay out of that darned tempest...while such mouthy, sorry dogs we are we will up in nothing but Val dive bombers and fly in a slow, on the deck formation for your picking pleasure...
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Bomb and bail with no damage, no perks awarded, and how about damage inflicted is removed, as if no bombs were dropped. There should definitely be things done to remove the the benefits of "gaming the game. This isn't the only way the game is gamed/
Great idea, except it will then become bomb and auger.
Wiley.
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While your suggestion to actually flay bomb-and-bailers is an interesting idea, I like the OP's suggestion better. A perk penalty for bailing out of an undamaged plane seems much more reasonable and more easily implemented. That or simply don't enable bailing (enter 3x) until a plane has actually lost critical parts.
And you must really hate bomb-and-bailers, luny, to want to physically do them harm. I agree they are a scourge of the game, but you are taking it to another level.
;)
Ryno
lol--no-bomb and bailers don't bother me--esp if i'm close enough to get the proxy's :joystick:
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Award a proximity kill x 3 to the nearest enemy even if out of icon range. Problem solved.
I like this except make it in Icon range. Or even 1 kill would be fine. I don't see it happen that often though most good Bomber Jocks like to get in their guns and knock down the foolish on their 6.
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lol--no-bomb and bailers don't bother me--esp if i'm close enough to get the proxy's :joystick:
lol yeah, once intercepted a v-joker-mission in a jet, got like 9 kills without even firing my guns :lol The bast part of it was TKO bragging on 200 how all my "kills" are worthless - yes they were worthless but just too funny :lol
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I don't see bomb and bail enough to warrant spending any coding time on it. But, I spend most of my time low so my view may be skewed. I enjoy fighting 2cmex and crew. I prefer it when he's in a nik1 and turning, but when he's in a Temp I just use it as SA practice. Having to watch out for a high fast opponent while preoccupied seems like it was pretty common in WWII. The only thing they may be guilty of is having an inaccurate squad name :D
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Who cares. It's a game. They baited you and you were dumb enough to swallow the bait hook line and sinker.
How does bailing mean I took the bait?
Did you ever think that instead of "using" his wingmen they were all working together the whole time?
Both? IDK, I think when a guy says "hey wingmen, keep him busy so I can get E and go kill him" they're still being used as tools, even if they are working together. And I said they were working together from the start, if you would care to read.
Did you ever think it took seven minutes only because you had an 8K alt advantage to start (and still lost)?
Had I kept BnZing,yes. But when one of them dove too far away (4k down with about 2k horizonal seperation), I dove down and started maneuvering with whoever was in the third 109. Missed the shot and ended up maneuvering with the two of them untill 2cmex comes tearing in for an easy kill.
BTW, how many of his wingmen that you were "beating the crap out of" did you kill? 0?
Doesn't matter, I was still outflying them. I personally don't care for your narrow interpretation of "success", as defined as simple number of kills.
And as I said, I was on the fence about the whole thing, right until that ignorant braying of "lol, PWND" pops up on 200. At that point, I thought "f**k it, I made the right call". As Devil later said, "any day you piss of 2cmex is a good day", and now I must say I agree completely.
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maybe you should get grounded for 2 minutes for bombing and bailing? guys that bomb and bail aren't after points, so they should be punished somehow!
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I don't see bomb and bail enough to warrant spending any coding time on it. But, I spend most of my time low so my view may be skewed. I enjoy fighting 2cmex and crew. I prefer it when he's in a nik1 and turning, but when he's in a Temp I just use it as SA practice. Having to watch out for a high fast opponent while preoccupied seems like it was pretty common in WWII. The only thing they may be guilty of is having an inaccurate squad name :D
We enjoy all the fights we get into. And of course we get a lot of flak from our squad name (usually all derogatory and lots of pm's) but we just take it as we are doing something right as far as irritating the enemy...you can also bet if you encounter one of us the others aren't too far away (a whopping number of 4)...isn't that the whole point of squad tactics though?...an unfortunate thing though is that 2cmex will not go to the DA anymore because of ****** who act like children and talk abunch of unwarranted noise over a game...Sawzaw and I take on all talkers when it comes to the DA since we are nothing but mouthy tools...just petty wingmen...
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maybe you should get grounded for 2 minutes for bombing and bailing? guys that bomb and bail aren't after points, so they should be punished somehow!
Make'em stay in there chute till there feet touch the ground, all that time will give them a momment for reflection lol
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While your suggestion to actually flay bomb-and-bailers is an interesting idea, I like the OP's suggestion better. A perk penalty for bailing out of an undamaged plane seems much more reasonable and more easily implemented. That or simply don't enable bailing (enter 3x) until a plane has actually lost critical parts.
And you must really hate bomb-and-bailers, luny, to want to physically do them harm. I agree they are a scourge of the game, but you are taking it to another level.
;)
Ryno
actually that was my attemp at sarcasm-and no i do not want anybody flayed--cooked or uncooked
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I like this except make it in Icon range. Or even 1 kill would be fine. I don't see it happen that often though most good Bomber Jocks like to get in their guns and knock down the foolish on their 6.
Fair enough. :aok
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For those that say Bomb and Bail isn't that common, I completely disagree. I used to fly late night west coast US time, and there are a lot of "hide and sneak" players on at those low pop hours, many of whom almost exclusively bomb and bail. Based on what I've seen and heard, one particular squad teaches and promotes it. And it is not just in bombers, actually. They do it in the bombers, then they do it in fighters (usually a deacking plane, like an La-7), then they do it in their goon. They almost always bail if intercepted.
I thought this was intended to be a combat game, but there are too many players I was encountering during my hours who only wanted to avoid combat and/or didn't care about making any attempt at surviving, let alone landing their sorties. I found it pointless to play during those hours and that is one of the primary reasons I unsubscribed from AH.
Fixing this loophole or "exploit" of being able to bail from an undamaged plane would help, IMO. It might even hasten my return to the game (not that just one subscription matters). But, I believe I'm not alone in feeling this way about this increasingly common play-style.
<S>
Ryno
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Fixing this loophole or "exploit" of being able to bail from an undamaged plane would help, IMO.
It would not change anything. You can rip the wings in a few seconds. Et voilą, there's your damage...
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It would not change anything. You can rip the wings in a few seconds. Et voilą, there's your damage...
Agreed and if HTC awarded perks for any plane in a certain range,we'd have players complaining that not enough bomber were bailing..... :rolleyes:
I do like the idea of being stuck in the chute but then players would just ride the bomber down.
It's the nature of the beast I guess,players are going to do as they please.
:salute
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For those that say Bomb and Bail isn't that common, I completely disagree. I used to fly late night west coast US time, and there are a lot of "hide and sneak" players on at those low pop hours, many of whom almost exclusively bomb and bail. Based on what I've seen and heard, one particular squad teaches and promotes it. And it is not just in bombers, actually. They do it in the bombers, then they do it in fighters (usually a deacking plane, like an La-7), then they do it in their goon. They almost always bail if intercepted.
I thought this was intended to be a combat game, but there are too many players I was encountering during my hours who only wanted to avoid combat and/or didn't care about making any attempt at surviving, let alone landing their sorties. I found it pointless to play during those hours and that is one of the primary reasons I unsubscribed from AH.
Fixing this loophole or "exploit" of being able to bail from an undamaged plane would help, IMO. It might even hasten my return to the game (not that just one subscription matters). But, I believe I'm not alone in feeling this way about this increasingly common play-style.
<S>
Ryno
It's not like this is a new problem http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,24991.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,24991.0.html)
Let the lame xBoxers have their fun. Soon enough they will realize this game requires skill and a brain, and go back to WOW...
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Let the lame xBoxers have their fun. Soon enough they will realize this game requires skill and a brain, and go back to WOW...
It's amusing how the 'Xbox crowd' is blamed for this behavior in game when it's been done since Air Warrior.
ack-ack
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It's amusing how the 'Xbox crowd' is blamed for this behavior in game when it's been done since Air Warrior.
ack-ack
We need to blame the Nintendo 64 crowd. :old:
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It would not change anything. You can rip the wings in a few seconds. Et voilą, there's your damage...
Perhaps at the altitudes you fly at you can gain speed fast enough to do this. Most bomb and bailers I see are mid-low alt and would likely auger before they could get out. And, remember, we're not just talking about bombers that bail.
I think the ability to bail (enter x3) should not be enabled until you've taken critical damage.
Nowhere in my post did I blame "the Xbox crowd". I too realize this issue is nothing new. And least in Warbirds you had to ride the chute all the way down, but that's really only a deterrent for mid-high alt bailers.
However, I was seeing it more and more frequently during the time I was playing, and was a factor in my deciding the game was no longer worth my time.
My two cents.
<S>
Ryno
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I dont see more. I have never done it to avoid a fight.
Landing after a run gives me pleasure just like Historical missions do.
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We need to blame the Nintendo 64 crowd. :old:
Those Amstrad guys. :old:
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It's amusing how the 'Xbox crowd' is blamed for this behavior in game when it's been done since Air Warrior.
ack-ack
Is that about the time you started to stutter? :rofl :bolt:
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We need to blame the Nintendo 64 crowd. :old:
:rofl
ack-ack
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I was not there for whatever happened myself, so all I can really say this: Tank, I've dueled with 2cmex lots and lots back in the day, and on most days he was better at it than I was. I'm pretty confident he could give you a perfectly fair fight and it would still end the same way.
And as I said, I was on the fence about the whole thing, right until that ignorant braying of "lol, PWND" pops up on 200. At that point, I thought "f**k it, I made the right call". As Devil later said, "any day you piss of 2cmex is a good day", and now I must say I agree completely.
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It's amusing how the 'Xbox crowd' is blamed for this behavior in game when it's been done since Air Warrior.
ack-ack
Indeed. This isn't anything new, or exclusive to AH. For some its just human nature, and that's tough to code around.
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Should 190's and Pony porkers lose perk points after they lawn dart into the second ords bunker?
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I love a devil's advocate.
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Should 190's and Pony porkers lose perk points after they lawn dart into the second ords bunker?
Sadly, that would be probably too difficult to code. No way to tell the difference between a porker who augers and someone who simply gets bled out of E and augers during a turn-fight. They also both take a death, so it's not really the same as bailing. Nice attempt at deflecting the topic though.
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I was not there for whatever happened myself, so all I can really say this: Tank, I've dueled with 2cmex lots and lots back in the day, and on most days he was better at it than I was. I'm pretty confident he could give you a perfectly fair fight and it would still end the same way.
See, heres the thing; I put up a good fight. I certainly wasn't "Pwnd" as he put it. Now I wasn't expecting a "gf Jager" from him by any means, but I was expecting silence. I certainly wasn't expecting him to pat himself on the arse in the same manner MANoWAR did.
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I don't think there should be any penalty for those that bomb and bail other than getting a well deserved reputation for being a total and complete dweeb.
ack-ack
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I very rarely fly buffs but I can empathize with players opting to bail rather than a long boring rtb. In a fighter I'll often auger or bail just to reup quicker. There should be 30 second time delay between pulling the rip cord and using .ef. That way if you are chasing a bomb and bailer at least you still have a chance to shoot him dead.
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Just increase the range for proxy kills. Still get the credit. Problem solved.
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:aok
That's exactly my point, Kingpin : some say "it's just a game, deal with it", but then ruining others fun with frustration by simply gaming the game and making them unsubscribe isnt the best way to keep a game we all love alive.
When i understand why some may do it once, or two times per day/week, we got some doing it all the time and those make new comers ask themselves "why would i subscribe/keep subscribing to a game that frustrate me when i log in to have fun after a college/work day" ?
The perks penalty for those who do it rarely won't be a problem : this system will only prevent those who almost always/always bail to continue their "fun griefing" imho.
For those that say Bomb and Bail isn't that common, I completely disagree. I used to fly late night west coast US time, and there are a lot of "hide and sneak" players on at those low pop hours, many of whom almost exclusively bomb and bail. Based on what I've seen and heard, one particular squad teaches and promotes it. And it is not just in bombers, actually. They do it in the bombers, then they do it in fighters (usually a deacking plane, like an La-7), then they do it in their goon. They almost always bail if intercepted.
I thought this was intended to be a combat game, but there are too many players I was encountering during my hours who only wanted to avoid combat and/or didn't care about making any attempt at surviving, let alone landing their sorties. I found it pointless to play during those hours and that is one of the primary reasons I unsubscribed from AH.
Fixing this loophole or "exploit" of being able to bail from an undamaged plane would help, IMO. It might even hasten my return to the game (not that just one subscription matters). But, I believe I'm not alone in feeling this way about this increasingly common play-style.
<S>
Ryno
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Should 190's and Pony porkers lose perk points after they lawn dart into the second ords bunker?
What about the Dar(t) tards? :lol
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You were obviously bailed on and now you come to the forums to whine and cry. They're only cartoon/pixel planes. You don't get a prize at the end of the sortie. This cartoon world doesn't pay your bills. So, Why take it so serious?
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I've never had bombers bail on me ever.
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Sadly, that would be probably too difficult to code. No way to tell the difference between a porker who augers and someone who simply gets bled out of E and augers during a turn-fight. They also both take a death, so it's not really the same as bailing. Nice attempt at deflecting the topic though.
It's not really any different... How many times do you see a run-90 auger after killing the radar? It's a weak minded approach to the game that requires almost no skill for the simple accomplishment of the task without any desire to engage...
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I've never had bombers bail on me ever.
How often do you up to intercept bomber(ing) runs? I've been here a year and a half and would estimate I've seen it done to avoid combat with me 12-15 times. Enough to make me ask myself is it worth it to up for bombers. Given my limited time for the past 6 months, I'll usually opt for anything else available, sometimes that means sitting in the tower or logging off.
If I knew they wouldn't do it or else they get penalized, I be much more inclined, but as several have pointed out, there are too many ways to work around a penalty, i.e. auger on purpose, etc. So ho hum, back to square one.
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I've never had bombers bail on me ever.
Lucky, lucky you ;)
There are basically two types of bailers:
The first is the classic bomb'n'bailer, who's doing it to decrease turn around time and thus increasing his efficiency in the 'war game'. He's not interested in score, and for the most part he doesn't care if anyone gets a kill from his bail or not.
And there's about nothing that can be done about it, as all 'solutions' that came up over the years are either easily circumvented or have negative side effects on gameplay that outweigh any possible gains from it. (perk loss, no bail from undamaged planes, no reupping for X minutes, bomb damage removed if bailing withing Y seconds...)
The second one is mainly griefing. He doesn't care much about his score, he just does not want to 'give' you a kill, for whatever reasons. He's frequently flying at excessive altitudes and bailing if some interceptor is actually taking the time and closing in on him, often just after getting ion icon range so he can assess the threat you are posing to him.
This is usually the one frustrating other players the most, especially if the fighter pilot had to invest a lot of time and effort to track the enemy and hunt him down.
There's not much that can generally be done about this type either, but I think that increasing proxy range to icon range limit might cut it down a bit. At least, I see no harm from it, or does anyone else do?
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In my experience, I very rarely encounter it and I fly :airplane: anywhere between 12PM-3AM Pacific. I think this is a non-issue and if it happens, so what. Move on.
:salute
27th
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In my experience, I very rarely encounter it and I fly :airplane: anywhere between 12PM-3AM Pacific. I think this is a non-issue and if it happens, so what. Move on.
:salute
27th
So, if you spend 25 minutes climbing to intercept bombers, and they bail, and that happens once or twice a night, you would be okay with it, right?
While it's a non-issue for me two, happened a hand full of times to me, I am still empathetic to the plight of others, and understand the problem. Depending on your flight profile, you may never see this happen... Why be so harsh?
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It's not really any different... How many times do you see a run-90 auger after killing the radar? It's a weak minded approach to the game that requires almost no skill for the simple accomplishment of the task without any desire to engage...
Oh, I totally agree with you that both are a weak approach to the game. I was saying they are different in two ways; one, the bomb-auger guy is taking a death, not a bail; and two, the bomb-bail thing seems simpler to code away: just remove the ability to bail from planes not critically damaged.
In the grand scheme I agree with you. There are lots of players who play the game in a "suicide mode", not wanting either to fight or even survive a sortie. For me (and again this is my opinion) this takes away from the immersion and intensity and fun of the game. I don't want to play a combat game against people who don't want combat and especially those who don't even make an effort to survive.
For those that say it doesn't happen a lot because they don't see it, I disagree with you. During my MA hours (usually late West Coast US) I was finding players of this type more and more frequently and those who wanted to fight less and less frequent. Perhaps I saw it more, because I often fly solo and tend to defend bases when I do. It got to the point where if I approached a dot on dar, I expected it to bail at icon range. It reached a tipping point where I decided it was no longer worth playing in the MA and I unsubbed.
I'm hoping the game improves, which is why I keep my hat in the ring here. I like the game in general, as it's the best combat flight sim going. I really like FSO and flying with my squad. I like continuing to learn and helping other players also. The MA just stopped being fun for me largely because of the "hide and sneak" bailers and the suicide-squad crowd. Unfortunately, the LWMA is where 90% of the action is.
The gamey bailing function is probably my greatest pet peeve. It is used to game the game AND to grief other players. This is why I advocate so strongly to see it go.
My opinions. YMMV.
<S>
Ryno
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In the grand scheme I agree with you. There are lots of players who play the game in a "suicide mode", not wanting either to fight or even survive a sortie. For me (and again this is my opinion) this takes away from the immersion and intensity and fun of the game. I don't want to play a combat game against people who don't want combat and especially those who don't even make an effort to survive.
<S>
Ryno
This. :aok
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So, if you spend 25 minutes climbing to intercept bombers, and they bail, and that happens once or twice a night, you would be okay with it, right?
While it's a non-issue for me two, happened a hand full of times to me, I am still empathetic to the plight of others, and understand the problem. Depending on your flight profile, you may never see this happen... Why be so harsh?
I agree with those that it's really a non-issue and not as prevalent as some try to make it. I've had it done to me many times over the years and I just chalk it up to the other person being a complete and utter dweeb and happily mock them for being so. In the MW arena when I used to play in there, there was a player named 'sooner' (account used by father/son) and you could tell which one was playing by the plane they bailed out in. The son would fly bombers and would bail at the first sign of an enemy icon, while the father flew fighters and would bail as soon as you got on his six. One day, I ran into the father in his Ki-61 during my sortie, he actually bailed 10 times on me which gave me 10 proxy kills. I just laughed at him and upped for another sortie. Sure I wasted my time but it's only a game.
ack-ack
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I agree with those that it's really a non-issue and not as prevalent as some try to make it. I've had it done to me many times over the years and I just chalk it up to the other person being a complete and utter dweeb and happily mock them for being so. In the MW arena when I used to play in there, there was a player named 'sooner' (account used by father/son) and you could tell which one was playing by the plane they bailed out in. The son would fly bombers and would bail at the first sign of an enemy icon, while the father flew fighters and would bail as soon as you got on his six. One day, I ran into the father in his Ki-61 during my sortie, he actually bailed 10 times on me which gave me 10 proxy kills. I just laughed at him and upped for another sortie. Sure I wasted my time but it's only a game.
ack-ack
I'm glad that you haven't encountered it as much as I have and that those who did bail allowed you to get into proxy range first. Clearly you don't feel it's negatively affecting your play time. That doesn't mean it doesn't negatively affect others.
Of behalf of those of us who have seen it more frequently, especially during our MA hours, my question to those who don't see it as often is this:
How would eliminating the ability to bomb and bail negatively affect your play in AH?
<S>
Ryno
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I don't bail often because I'm usually shot down first! But thinking about how and when I might bail its usually for a specific reason....base alert, squad rolling a mission or country rolling a mission you want to be apart of.....or at home something has come up!, and you just gotta go! <S>
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I'm glad that you haven't encountered it as much as I have and that those who did bail allowed you to get into proxy range first. Clearly you don't feel it's negatively affecting your play time. That doesn't mean it doesn't negatively affect others.
Of behalf of those of us who have seen it more frequently, especially during our MA hours, my question to those who don't see it as often is this:
How would eliminating the ability to bomb and bail negatively affect your play in AH?
<S>
Ryno
:airplane: Today, after hitting a base and town with my 17's, I was RTB and noticed 3 lanc's heading to P161 in MLW arena. I was empty of ords, so started after the lanc's and after much yo-yoing up and down to catch him, we exchanged gunfire and I killed all 3 of the Lanc's! Another reason not to bail guys!
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Why have none of you freaks asked lucifer who the chick is on his avatar :old:
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I've never had bombers bail on me ever.
I miss you Kazaa :old:
No I lied I dont :rofl
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I'm glad that you haven't encountered it as much as I have and that those who did bail allowed you to get into proxy range first. Clearly you don't feel it's negatively affecting your play time. That doesn't mean it doesn't negatively affect others.
Of behalf of those of us who have seen it more frequently, especially during our MA hours, my question to those who don't see it as often is this:
How would eliminating the ability to bomb and bail negatively affect your play in AH?
<S>
Ryno
Eliminating the ability to bail from an undamaged plane wouldn't negatively affect anything I can think of, other than the people who bail to go do something else, for whatever reason. I'm not sure where I stand on that. I don't do it personally, but really don't care if others want to.
What would the difference be though if instead of bailing, the guy augers? If you say 'penalize him for augering too', how do you code it to differentiate an intentional lawndart from a legitimate screwup? The unskilled shouldn't be penalized for the actions of the dweebish.
Wiley.
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I'm glad that you haven't encountered it as much as I have and that those who did bail allowed you to get into proxy range first. Clearly you don't feel it's negatively affecting your play time. That doesn't mean it doesn't negatively affect others.
Of behalf of those of us who have seen it more frequently, especially during our MA hours, my question to those who don't see it as often is this:
How would eliminating the ability to bomb and bail negatively affect your play in AH?
<S>
Ryno
Having it done to me 10 times in a row in a single sortie isn't the definition of having experienced it infrequently. I just don't let it bother me is all nor do I believe there should be any penalty imposed on those doing it as any penalty will most likely have a negative effect on the over all game play.
ack-ack
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Oh, I totally agree with you that both are a weak approach to the game. I was saying they are different in two ways; one, the bomb-auger guy is taking a death, not a bail; and two, the bomb-bail thing seems simpler to code away: just remove the ability to bail from planes not critically damaged.
FYI For scoring KD, a bail = a death
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I don't bail often because I'm usually shot down first!
Now that's funny, because rumor has it it's the other guy who gets shot down. ;)
But thinking about how and when I might bail its usually for a specific reason....base alert, squad rolling a mission or country rolling a mission you want to be apart of.....or at home something has come up!, and you just gotta go! <S>
I just don't subscribe to the "I found something better to do" reason to bail. What about the other guy who upped to intercept and just spent 20 minutes climbing and chasing? Bailing wastes his time and denies him the valuable opportunity learn "you simply don't attack Trip-Nines' bombers from dead six".
If you need to quit for real life issues, that's what AltF4 is for.
<S>
Ryno
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it's not just bombers that do this. I've had typhoons do this right infront of me eh zack! :lol
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Having it done to me 10 times in a row in a single sortie isn't the definition of having experienced it infrequently. I just don't let it bother me is all nor do I believe there should be any penalty imposed on those doing it as any penalty will most likely have a negative effect on the over all game play.
ack-ack
A small perk charge for all ord, returnable upon RTB, would tend to motivate people to RTB I believe.
EDIT: Would motivate them to RTB whether their run be bomber or jabo.
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FYI For scoring KD, a bail = a death
I think it affects perks, not score, if I remember correctly. Luche addressed this in a recent thread on this topic specifically and I'll defer to his expertise on the subject.
To Ack-Ack and Wiley: I'm not lobbying for a penalty (per the OPs suggestion). I'm suggesting the removal of Enter x 3 to bail until you have sustained critical damage.
Yes, that can be gamed as well, by intentionally breaking your plane or augering, but that takes time and is not as easy and virtually instantaneous as pressing Enter.
<S>
Ryno
p.s. I do like the perked ords idea as well. Ords have a significant impact on the game (and how others can play), therefore they should be worth something to limit their abuse (such as suicide jabo).
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Yes, that can be gamed as well, by intentionally breaking your plane or augering, but that takes time and is not as easy and virtually instantaneous as pressing Enter.
<S>
Ryno
I just don't think the difference in time between 3x Enter and either overspeed and wingrip and bail or lawndart is worth the consideration. Just MHO.
Wiley.
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it's not just bombers that do this. I've had typhoons do this right infront of me eh zack! :lol
:rofl
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I just don't think the difference in time between 3x Enter and either overspeed and wingrip and bail or lawndart is worth the consideration. Just MHO.
Wiley.
I'm not sure I agree. I may have to test this offline. What's the fastest you can go from level flight bomb-bay doors open, to losing your drones and THEN inflict critical damage to your remaining bomber? (If you do it with intact drones, bailing just puts you into another bomber you need to break.) An intercepting fighter may be able to close to proxy range by then, no?
<S>
Ryno
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I'm not sure I agree. I may have to test this offline. What's the fastest you can go from level flight bomb-bay doors open, to losing your drones and THEN inflict critical damage to your remaining bomber? (If you do it with intact drones, bailing just puts you into another bomber you need to break.) An intercepting fighter may be able to close to proxy range by then, no?
<S>
Ryno
Wouldn't think it would be more than 20 seconds. Deep dive away from the fighter, outrun drones about the time the wings depart.
Wiley.
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Much ado about nothing.
I had 213 kills last month, so that is how much I play. I hunt bombers a lot. I had maybe 1 or 2 bail all of last month. I've had more than that bail in a month, I've had less.
I don't bother to worry about that much. I know I won, they know I won, good enough for what we have to work with. Tweaking the system to "punish" these few offenders will unfortunately negatively impact those that play with class so, no, let's not.
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hey Hey no talking about my squad.. For those that dont know cmex he only flies the tempest because they complained about him being in a nikki. so to get even more of a reaction from folks he now flies the temp.. i find it funny
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The bomb and bail post again?
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Bombers are my favorite target! Last night in one sortie I got five kills off of bomb and bail characters. I really appreciate the kills but I seriously doubt I would have got all five without receiving damage. :banana:
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Bombers are my favorite target! Last night in one sortie I got five kills off of bomb and bail characters. I really appreciate the kills but I seriously doubt I would have got all five without receiving damage. :banana:
The only thing I don't like about them is you get no perks. Looking at it in pure mathematical terms, I would've gotten some perks off those bombers if I'd been allowed to kill them. I don't think it would kill the game if you got perks off proxies, unless I'm missing something. Obviously not in GV's or ground guns, but A2A I think it would be reasonable.
Wiley.
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So, if you spend 25 minutes climbing to intercept bombers, and they bail, and that happens once or twice a night, you would be okay with it, right?
While it's a non-issue for me two, happened a hand full of times to me, I am still empathetic to the plight of others, and understand the problem. Depending on your flight profile, you may never see this happen... Why be so harsh?
-If you start climbing for 25 minutes to intercept bombers, you accept the time you're investing and the circumstances of what might happen on that flight.
-I agree 100% what ack-ack is saying.
-What flight profile? Here is my resume: 1995-2001 Air Warrior , 2002- present Aces High
-Finally, it's just part of the game. No penalty. Want to expand proxy radius? fine.
:salute
27th
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I can see dropping your bombs with no enemy around, no enemy dar, seeing a different place of the map you want to fight and then dumping your bombers. I myself dont do it cause its kinda tacky, "unless I have something to do real world". But to dump your bombers to avoid a fight and to protect your stats??? That just smells like yesterdays pizza OTW out into the welcome bowl.
It does take skill to fly and fight them with success.
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Lucky, lucky you ;)
There are basically two types of bailers:
The first is the classic bomb'n'bailer, who's doing it to decrease turn around time and thus increasing his efficiency in the 'war game'. He's not interested in score, and for the most part he doesn't care if anyone gets a kill from his bail or not.
And there's about nothing that can be done about it, as all 'solutions' that came up over the years are either easily circumvented or have negative side effects on gameplay that outweigh any possible gains from it. (perk loss, no bail from undamaged planes, no reupping for X minutes, bomb damage removed if bailing withing Y seconds...)
The second one is mainly griefing. He doesn't care much about his score, he just does not want to 'give' you a kill, for whatever reasons. He's frequently flying at excessive altitudes and bailing if some interceptor is actually taking the time and closing in on him, often just after getting ion icon range so he can assess the threat you are posing to him.
This is usually the one frustrating other players the most, especially if the fighter pilot had to invest a lot of time and effort to track the enemy and hunt him down.
There's not much that can generally be done about this type either, but I think that increasing proxy range to icon range limit might cut it down a bit. At least, I see no harm from it, or does anyone else do?
I agree with this^
And would add...this is much ado about nothing. :salute
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One problem with increasing the proxy range is if it also applies to fighters. An uber-timid LW plane(or planes) can corral a lower/slower plane from either going to attack or rtb and basically run him out of gas. This has happened to me many times. After a half dozen weak passes, you can tell when they are too afraid to press the attack but stay so fast, there is no hope of catching them. You have to keep breaking, so you can't really get anywhere. My solution is to bail out when they get to 2.5k.
Another problem is that you see a con on radar and up to intercept. The con turns out to be high bombers and you are not in the right plane or just don't feel like a bomber chase. Bail. Or, it's a high speed porker that you can't catch. Bail. I bail all the time, but not to avoid a death. Excepting the above reason, of course.
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One problem with increasing the proxy range is if it also applies to fighters. An uber-timid LW plane(or planes) can corral a lower/slower plane from either going to attack or rtb and basically run him out of gas. This has happened to me many times. After a half dozen weak passes, you can tell when they are too afraid to press the attack but stay so fast, there is no hope of catching them. You have to keep breaking, so you can't really get anywhere. My solution is to bail out when they get to 2.5k.
Another problem is that you see a con on radar and up to intercept. The con turns out to be high bombers and you are not in the right plane or just don't feel like a bomber chase. Bail. Or, it's a high speed porker that you can't catch. Bail. I bail all the time, but not to avoid a death. Excepting the above reason, of course.
Yup, and you can still bail... It just may mean someone else gets your kill.... and?
Much ado about nothing.
I had 213 kills last month, so that is how much I play. I hunt bombers a lot. I had maybe 1 or 2 bail all of last month. I've had more than that bail in a month, I've had less.
I don't bother to worry about that much. I know I won, they know I won, good enough for what we have to work with. Tweaking the system to "punish" these few offenders will unfortunately negatively impact those that play with class so, no, let's not.
Bolded part. How so?
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A change is needed with this problem. :aok
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6fzc18g7i7crjya/bailing_bombers_0008.ahf
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Most of the time I see it, it's because I show up at a ridiculous altitude where the bombers thought they were safe.
I check the film and usually find that these guys often have 3 stars and ranked in the top 25.
The low altitude bombing and bailing is far more prevalent with me seeing it many times a day and films reveal it's the same guys who ride in their bombs on a heavy fighter just to drop a single ord bunker or radar.
Two very different circumstances.
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I meant to say that I very rarely see it at high altitude but see it often with the lancstukas.
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i had to double check to make sure this wasn't from 2006
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Out in full force this morning. Several Knight sorties were met at the strats and other bases w/ bomb and bail, all for a Bishop win da war. 3 separate sorties for me were met with bombers that had yet to empty, but as soon as they saw me bailed. Cmon maaaan!
So I asked one of them in pm, I reviewed my film to know who, why bail as soon as you saw me? Response: "I had no chance vs. a 163." Really no chance :headscratch: The majority of 163's kills I have were when I was in Lancasters. I learned how to shoot through the process of getting shot down A LOT.
Just too timid to want try, too worried their ego might not handle being shot down? C'mon he decided to come bomb the strats, he decided to put himself in that position, and so they can bomb targets without fear of being killed - that is NOT COMBAT. :rolleyes:
HTC please make the proxy range for bombers that hit enter 3x 6.0. If they decide to auger as a way around at least you can try to dive with them and shoot at them.
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Out in full force this morning. Several Knight sorties were met at the strats and other bases w/ bomb and bail, all for a Bishop win da war. 3 separate sorties for me were met with bombers that had yet to empty, but as soon as they saw me bailed. Cmon maaaan!
So I asked one of them in pm, I reviewed my film to know who, why bail as soon as you saw me? Response: "I had no chance vs. a 163." Really no chance :headscratch: The majority of 163's kills I have were when I was in Lancasters. I learned how to shoot through the process of getting shot down A LOT.
Just too timid to want try, too worried their ego might not handle being shot down? C'mon he decided to come bomb the strats, he decided to put himself in that position, and so they can bomb targets without fear of being killed - that is NOT COMBAT. :rolleyes:
HTC please make the proxy range for bombers that hit enter 3x 6.0. If they decide to auger as a way around at least you can try to dive with them and shoot at them.
Why should they force someone to fight? All this would do is give you three kills. But wait I thought no one cared about score? :headscratch:
I vote no.
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Force him to fight? :huh Sure this is supposedly about combat. And as far as I can see the bombers that dont bail tear me up in seconds anyway. I dont see them as an easy kill.
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Why should they force someone to fight? All this would do is give you three kills. But wait I thought no one cared about score? :headscratch:
I vote no.
Because it's not realistic. A set of bombers over enemy territory, no one ever bailed out to avoid a fight in that situation, they want to bail over their own territory well then maybe that is compromise. It's gaming the game, and this game is intended for combat. It's not my fault they took bombers over my country, why should anyone pay penalty in time wasted chasing them, when they say ha! I'm just going to bail because my ego is going to get hurt if they shoot me down.
On the rare occasion that I have bailed out of perfectly good bombers it was NEVER to avoid a fight, it was I had to go or something came up and I couldn't invest the time to fly home, the handful of times that happened I was deep in their strats, and I'd be fine if the nearest person got the kill too.
Fight man, good god. (< at the B&B's not you Vink)
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^^^^Absobloominlutely :aok
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Because it's not realistic. A set of bombers over enemy territory, no one ever bailed out to avoid a fight in that situation, they want to bail over their own territory well then maybe that is compromise. It's gaming the game, and this game is intended for combat. It's not my fault they took bombers over my country, why should anyone pay penalty in time wasted chasing them, when they say ha! I'm just going to bail because my ego is going to get hurt if they shoot me down.
On the rare occasion that I have bailed out of perfectly good bombers it was NEVER to avoid a fight, it was I had to go or something came up and I couldn't invest the time to fly home, the handful of times that happened I was deep in their strats, and I'd be fine if the nearest person got the kill too.
Fight man, good god. (< at the B&B's not you Vink)
I've bailed before. Usually during a Milk-Run, when my squad-mates would log on and want to set something up. I'm not going to make them wait 30-40 minutes for my return, I will just bail so I can meet up with them.
I have never bailed, because I was under any form of attack...
Coogan
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I've bailed before. Usually during a Milk-Run, when my squad-mates would log on and want to set something up. I'm not going to make them wait 30-40 minutes for my return, I will just bail so I can meet up with them.
I have never bailed, because I was under any form of attack...
Coogan
^this. If i bail its either to jump into a mission or my aircraft no longer has the ability to stay aloft. Never have i ever bailed in order to deny an enemy player the chance to attack or to simply get airborne quicker.
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Hell, I've taken to flying B-17s quite a bit the last half of this tour now. I've had a total of 4 fighters come after me. Two of them were persistent. Two of them turned tail and ran at the first hint of defending tracers. This would be 10% of missions flown so far. I bailed over strat city and gave two of them kills 30 mins after they limped away smoking.
If bomber bailers are responsible for no opposition now, then erg.
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Because it's not realistic. A set of bombers over enemy territory, no one ever bailed out to avoid a fight in that situation, they want to bail over their own territory well then maybe that is compromise. It's gaming the game, and this game is intended for combat. It's not my fault they took bombers over my country, why should anyone pay penalty in time wasted chasing them, when they say ha! I'm just going to bail because my ego is going to get hurt if they shoot me down.
On the rare occasion that I have bailed out of perfectly good bombers it was NEVER to avoid a fight, it was I had to go or something came up and I couldn't invest the time to fly home, the handful of times that happened I was deep in their strats, and I'd be fine if the nearest person got the kill too.
Fight man, good god. (< at the B&B's not you Vink)
The only solution would be to eliminate bailing out of the plane, because extending the proxy range isn't going to stop the guy from bailing because it doesn't change the outcome from his standpoint.
I doubt HTC is going prevent people from bailing out. That what I meant be not forcing people to fight. So increasing proxy range isn't going to effectively change much except you will get three easy kills. You still won;t get many fights from the bailing bunch. :salute
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Just one more to add. :bhead
http://www.mediafire.com/download/tasp4esae4g1c42/film3_0146.ahf
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Just one more to add. :bhead
http://www.mediafire.com/download/tasp4esae4g1c42/film3_0146.ahf
Less than one hour later same result same arena different player.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/8sd3z5pxdcdvbbb/film3_0234.ahf
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They should add a 'suicide' button to a bomber. Leave one 500 pounder in the cargo bay and enable the pilot to blow it up. Then make a pretty graphic with bomber parts and smoke pillowing down the sky when the dweeb wants to tower :D
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more and more of them lately than i have seen in my nearly 2yrs :rolleyes:
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more and more of them lately than i have seen in my nearly 2yrs :rolleyes:
Your sampling is small. :D
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I was hovering over a nit base the other day and a KI-61 upped...being about 10k I watch him for a min as he climbed out...it was about 2 min after he had upped he noticed me above him and immediately bailed...I was not given a proxy or anything...but he was sure quick to jump into the 88...the weird thing about the 61 is that the whole cockpit was full of smoke...almost like a cheech and chong movie :headscratch: sorry blu I know it wasn't you :lol :noid
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I was hovering over a nit base the other day and a KI-61 upped...being about 10k I watch him for a min as he climbed out...it was about 2 min after he had upped he noticed me above him and immediately bailed...I was not given a proxy or anything...but he was sure quick to jump into the 88...the weird thing about the 61 is that the whole cockpit was full of smoke...almost like a cheech and chong movie :headscratch: sorry blu I know it wasn't you :lol :noid
hot box gone wrong.
:noid
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:rofl
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They should add a 'suicide' button to a bomber. Leave one 500 pounder in the cargo bay and enable the pilot to blow it up. Then make a pretty graphic with bomber parts and smoke pillowing down the sky when the dweeb wants to tower :D
-1
Absolutely positively NO!
Can you imagine the griefers waiting until you are in range and blowing themselves up just to take you with them?
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I've got to admit that with the distance to some of the factories with the new split-up strat system on some maps I've been very tempted to bomb and bail. I won't do it if there's a con en route--that would be uncool to him, given the time he took to get to the alt I usually drop from--but really, a 2+ hour mission that mostly is as exciting as watching paint dry?
I bomb strats to help my side win, not because it's fun. Even though I don't condone it, I understand why some bomb and bail (at least concerning the harder-to-reach factories). HT ought to make those a little less time-consuming to reach, imo.
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I admit on occasion the prospect of bailing with an enemy closing fast has seemed briefly tempting when I've been having a particularly crappy night on the server. I've never actually stooped that low however. Ultimately though dodging enemy fighters, limping back to base on the return trip and finally getting those wheels back on the runway is half the fun of flying a bomber in the first place. For me anyway.
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Both of lyric's latest films are in the EW arena. All they really do in there is build perks and try to sneak in as the "Top Pilots" at the end of the tour. Both were flying JU's against his 38 G so the out come was pretty well " a given".
I don't see it in the Mains that often, but I fly during US peak and so the numbers are a bit higher so maybe the "bailers" are hiding in those numbers.
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Only a select few individuals get such treatment.
So far, only MANoWAR and 2cmex have made me grief them.
2cmex isnt an idot like MANoWAR hes dam good in a fighter and never runs his mouth :headscratch:
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I bomb strats to help my side win, not because it's fun.
LOL :rolleyes:
are you being paid? because that sounds like work.
video games are supposed to be fun.
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All they really do in there is build perks and try to sneak in as the "Top Pilots" at the end of the tour. Both were flying JU's against his 38 G so the out come was pretty well " a given".
Not exactly most of them in early war for the most part never come to late war or mid war for that matter. So perk points are not the goal for these guys from time to time I will catch someone in Lancs. As far as rankings are concerned I don't really see that with the exception of fighter. If you look at the stats for top fighter rank over a period of time in Early war (not always but more often than not). The top guy seems to find the same person who ups 7-8 times in bombers & the fellow in the fighter has only one sortie in early war for the entire tour.
:headscratch: Strangely I don't seem to have that good fortune. :devil
I do see the bomb & bail in all arenas I just don't film that often though.
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I've only done it once as long as I can remember, and I can say I was perfectly justified in doing so.
I read a text message on the room channel: "anyone seen 2cmex and his damn tempest?"
"Yeah, he was motoring home just a bit ago. He was only at 6k, if anyones got a lot of smash"
And what do you think happened to appear at long-6 o'clock, right around 6k? You guessed it; a Typhoon icon. I waited until he closed to 3k and bailed on him. Oh the howls of rage and fury that were heard on CH 200.
Later, I even helped SYSTEM kill one of his Tempests.
you mean he didnt have his LA lacky there to set you up for him... oh yeah you were in buffs. I love when he is alone, easy meat
As I logged off for the night, I found myself thinking:
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/011/644/27751394.jpg)
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Your sampling is small. :D
It is, but I'd contend that it is still a considerable amount compared with the avg subscriber :D
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Typical day in early war.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/2g1ghgtugf2v6t3/1csmo_bomb_&_bail_0256.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/2g1ghgtugf2v6t3/1csmo_bomb_&_bail_0256.ahf)
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Same again different character. :bhead
http://www.mediafire.com/download/90b0kras44h4y1y/Early_war_more_of_the_same.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/90b0kras44h4y1y/Early_war_more_of_the_same.ahf)
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Since the bomb & bail seems to be mostly against strats to aid in base captures. For the most part AAA & City from what I have seen :headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch: What if a penalty equal to the damage down time to strats was equal to how long before the culprit can up again.
After all you can affect the strats up to three hours that makes it difficult to defend or resupply any base that has later been damaged.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5bw8v1235bdk3d4/1csmo_bomb_and_bail_again_1226.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/5bw8v1235bdk3d4/1csmo_bomb_and_bail_again_1226.ahf)
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Bailing after bombing or not, the damage to strats should be better balanced with the ability to resupply. I was one of the main supporters of making strat strikes an important target and viable game play option. I stand by that notion, but just like 100 percent town captures, I feel that 3 hours (or even excess of 1 hour) supply times at 4 minutes per supply drop is over the top.
The current settings would be appropriate for a "scenario" but for MA game play, and smaller numbers, one or two players have the ability to grief so many. Make supply drops on strats worth 10 to 15 minutes, and give those goon pilots a safe landing just like ground vehicles are able to (undamaged, and away from enemy contact).
{edited for spelling error}
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I stand by that notion, but just like 100 percent town captures, I feel that 3 hours (or even excess of 1 hour) supply times at 4 minutes per supply drop is over the top.
One hour of factory building downtime - At a C-47 flight time of 5 minutes, it would take one player 30 minutes and only two players as little as just over 20 minutes to redeem any damage done.
This would make strat attacks on more remote targets on most maps absolutely pointless. Nobody invests 90 minutes of flight time to see you target coming back up that fast, especially if it comes back up before you even have landed.
And no, we can't compare this to the 15 minutes of hangar downtime, because the impact and significance is a totally different one.
But in my opinion we do have some kind of balance problem now on maps like Ndisles since we got the dispersed strats. Vital factories are now close to the front line and almost indefensible to the point that there's almost no point in trying to do so. In effect you have constantly 150 minutes of AA or radar downtimes there. I have myself abandoned almost all "strategic play" on those maps, be it on offense (bomber) or on defense (fighter).
But that's a problem which can not be solved by changing the strat downtimes across the board.
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One hour of factory building downtime - At a C-47 flight time of 5 minutes, it would take one player 30 minutes and only two players as little as just over 20 minutes to redeem any damage done.
This would make strat attacks on more remote targets on most maps absolutely pointless. Nobody invests 90 minutes of flight time to see you target coming back up that fast, especially if it comes back up before you even have landed.
{snip}
At 4 minutes a resupply and 5 minutes (drop and bail)... with no downtime between I still calculate 30 minutes of "constant" in the seat flying (6 boxes x 4 mins =24 mins). ( 1 hr = 60 mins ) - 24 mins = (36 mins resupplied time). However the clock has run (5 mins x 6 trips = 30 mins clock time). 36 -30 = 6 mins left on the clock.
In any event, I do not equate time flying (partially afk) in bombers to numerous short drop and bail trips (why should I have to bail anyways) even if they were of equal or greater length. Also, the downtimes that I have encountered, (and I think you made a reference to certain maps), have been generally more than 2 hours. Yesterday strat buildings were down for 155 minutes at one time.
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At 4 minutes a resupply and 5 minutes (drop and bail)... with no downtime between I still calculate 30 minutes of "constant" in the seat flying
Have I said something different?
In any event, I do not equate time flying (partially afk) in bombers to numerous short drop and bail trips (why should I have to bail anyways) even if they were of equal or greater length.
I do. Because it's time that is the great limit factor of most players.
Also, the downtimes that I have encountered, (and I think you made a reference to certain maps), have been generally more than 2 hours. Yesterday strat buildings were down for 155 minutes at one time.
You seem to be confuse factory and field object downtimes in my post ;)
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Land the Bombers after a run is a must, i dont even loose the drones on purpose. I can land atleast one plane 75% of the missions even if im attacked. There is nothing more satisfying than having a guy hunting u for 20-30 min and just when he is in gun range shoot him down. When im buffs i feel that i can beat all players but one and i see an intercepting fighter as a scoring opportunity.
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The issue here is bailing. Bailing is reinforced, where it should be frowned upon.
What I didn't communicate effectively was in Snailman's example of 30 minutes to resupply 1 hr of damage, his estimate was short by at least 6 minutes. That is to say that 30 minutes on the clock had run down, but only 24 minutes of resupply was delivered.
Yes, there is a great difference in factory downtime and field strat downtime. Since I was speaking of factory and HQ downtimes, the extensive 2 - 3 hour downtimes still gives one player too much power to grief many others. That is my point and not watered down at all by 1+ hour town down times or radar down times.
The Balance is not right, and I haven't heard anything to persuade me to think otherwise. Especially, any suggestion that hands on flying a C47 with no guns or text buffer broadcast when landed, is the same quality time spent as flying Bombers with several gun positions and the ability to grief and entire group of players, have the text buffer brag about what you did, and not even necessary to be in the same room as the computer a good deal of time.
In the past the same claims were made over and over about towns have to be 100% destroyed. HTC, was rather open minded and stated it was not their intention to stall the capture of airfields, and then made adjustments to the amount of buildings needed to be destroyed and also gave us the now famous "white flag".
Simply put the penalty on a large group of players by a single or small group of players is again disproportional to the amount of effort expended. I do like the strategic game presented, just not the extended long lasting effects.
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Early war.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/13a141wvgwhzwzp/film0_0011.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/13a141wvgwhzwzp/film0_0011.ahf)
Same in Mid war.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/a8l1qzceyfm5986/bomb_bail_mid_war_lancs_0210_0214.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/a8l1qzceyfm5986/bomb_bail_mid_war_lancs_0210_0214.ahf)
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Early war.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/13a141wvgwhzwzp/film0_0011.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/13a141wvgwhzwzp/film0_0011.ahf)
Same in Mid war.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/a8l1qzceyfm5986/bomb_bail_mid_war_lancs_0210_0214.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/a8l1qzceyfm5986/bomb_bail_mid_war_lancs_0210_0214.ahf)
Don't you get the impression that no one cares besides you yet?
I'm sure this falls under " it is their $15". While it sucks for those that do the chasing, I doubt you will ever see anything done.
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Don't you get the impression that no one cares besides you yet?
Ahh no.
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The issue here is bailing. Bailing is reinforced, where it should be frowned upon.
It's a tactical thing we do. for example to stop the bishop/rook horde (we knights do not horde as that needs teamwork :rofl), I will go to a base and take out ords and dar. I wont waste the time to rtb. I'll bail then go hit the next base and so on.
sometimes I'll be 1/2 way to a base or actually rtb'ing with kills and our squad plans a mission, then sometimes I'll bail too. I have bailed out with as many as 7 kills (ok that one because I forgot I had 7).
thinking that bailing should be frowned upon is like trying to enforce "honor" rules that some people "play by".
you can argue to death the bailing out thingy but fact is you wont change what players do. if they want to bail out then let them bail out. people will only annoy you if you let them.
semp
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Right, because maybe we should just allow them to spam Lancs and B17s; just click a button and the AI does it for you, maybe even allow them to spam more than one base and do an actual player piloted bomb and bail at the same time, then they can bomb and bail 3 different bases at the same time; that'd be great for game play wouldn't it. After all you say that's what they want, so give it to them.
:rolleyes:
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It's the same as the guys who tower their GVs when they hear the bombs falling.
Its the same as the guys who run to ack and hide in it.
Its the same as the guys who vulch you on the runway.
All pretty lame, all spoil your fun, but it is their $15. Your not going to see a change.
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It's a tactical thing we do. for example to stop the bishop/rook horde (we knights do not horde as that needs teamwork :rofl), I will go to a base and take out ords and dar. I wont waste the time to rtb. I'll bail then go hit the next base and so on.
true, but because we are gaming the system, not because it is good for the game....
[snip]
thinking that bailing should be frowned upon is like trying to enforce "honor" rules that some people "play by".
nope, rules won't work, but maybe different rewards systems might "encourage" less gamey behavior
[snip]
you can argue to death the bailing out thingy but fact is you wont change what players do.
if the benefits outweigh the penalties then the players will adjust accordingly.... so there is something that CAN be done
semp
Also, Fugi your point about things that are annoyances is well taken. I don't agree, that you won't see a change. I don't have that crystal ball, but through the years have seen a number of changes and I do have confidence that HTC development will continue to evolve in the spirit of creating a platform for combat.
Dumping aircraft to avoid combat after effecting others combat abilities is the key issue here. What the developers feel about that now is anyone's guess. However at one point the direction they were contemplating for the game, centered around pilots' ability to perform tasks and survive.
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Also, Fugi your point about things that are annoyances is well taken. I don't agree, that you won't see a change. I don't have that crystal ball, but through the years have seen a number of changes and I do have confidence that HTC development will continue to evolve in the spirit of creating a platform for combat.
Dumping aircraft to avoid combat after effecting others combat abilities is the key issue here. What the developers feel about that now is anyone's guess. However at one point the direction they were contemplating for the game, centered around pilots' ability to perform tasks and survive.
chilli we have flown for a while while in the pigs. and you know that people like me perks means nothing and also points mean nothing. first time i flew with the chawks I went thru 9 b29's just to prove that i could take off on a short base with a tree in front of it. I won I only lost 8 b29's :). then i lost my last one over the strats as i had gone to the bathroom. hey perks and points are free in this game :banana: :banana:.
semp
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It's a reaction to Ink's thread hating on the "Survive at all costs" folks.
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Your not going to see a change.
Seem to remember a single post by a player who lost a 262 to GHI in an IL-2 via F3 mode.
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Seem to remember a single post by a player who lost a 262 to GHI in an IL-2 via F3 mode.
I remember far more than one post. Also that issue was something that gave an unfair advantage to players using F3 mode. This one doesn't give anyone and advantage other than being able to more more runs in the time it takes to do one.
Is it game changing? I don't think so, that's why I don't think you'll see any changes.
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I remember far more than one post. Also that issue was something that gave an unfair advantage to players using F3 mode. This one doesn't give anyone and advantage other than being able to more more runs in the time it takes to do one.
Is it game changing? I don't think so, that's why I don't think you'll see any changes.
When 1 person hits strats & bails it has far more impact going on than extra sorties to do it again.
The impact is up to three hours long.
Far more impact than a single player in an IL-2 that shot down a 262 in f3 mode.
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How so? If he made it to the strats then the damage is done and bailing only saves him the time of the return to base. If he bails and you intercept him on his next trip and bails you stopped him, but don't get the kill. No advantage any where in there. If he made the trip to bomb a strategic and made it then the 3 hours is right, he earned it. Just because you didn't get to shoot him down doesn't give him an unfair advantage.
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What you do after you drop bomb or troops or whatever says a lot about how you view this game.
If you fly back to your field, you see Aces High as a flight simulator.
If you drop your load and then bail, you see Aces High as nothing more than an arcade game.
It's that simple.
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Isn't human nature fun. I'm one of the old crusty flight simmers thats been around for a while. Always liked aircraft. I used to bug my father to take me to the airport to watch stuff take off and land. I still get a rush from hearing an Alison or Packard Merlin V12.
I've played online stuff off and on, since before 2000-think AH had the "canyon lands" topography back then and yep, there were always those who sought some kind of extra advantage in the sim and those who would get really pissed and complain with four letter words online as well.
I think I originally started in something called 'Sky Fighters" by Don Hill. Used a mouse for controls on an ancient MAC puter. I still laugh about getting e-mails from little kids who wanted to know how to change the coding to their advantage. In other sims there were gang bangers and there were expert spawn campers as well. Some folks have a need to appear better or top dog I guess. I recently tried a 'free player' trial thingy from one of the competing sims , (you know the one with axis and allies) and to my amazement the players there are now paranoid about spies in the game. If they can't take a town then its got to be spies. Always someone else to blame or worry about for your own lack of success. I would think that the players must know by now that it is them that can make or break an online game. Maybe it's got to do with the later generation of first person shooters. Blast away and get points and that's it. In contrast I used to fly cyber planes around just for the pleasure of successfully taking off, going around and landing. An old fashioned concept I guess.
I recently built a new rig and thought about coming back to play but when I see the same old behavior is still around I'm not so sure I will. I have to say that, considering what I recently experienced with the other sim that HiTech has been pretty good about considering player suggestions , keeping the peace and coming up with some new stuff in the game but how can he and the staff deal with all player attitude stuff and keep working on development etc.
What ever happened to just plain old gaming fun?
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I remember far more than one post. Also that issue was something that gave an unfair advantage to players using F3 mode. This one doesn't give anyone and advantage other than being able to more more runs in the time it takes to do one.
Is it game changing? I don't think so, that's why I don't think you'll see any changes.
By the math, that's (assuming all distances, altitudes and load outs will be the same) that's a ~200% advantage for the bomb hauler.
By the mechanics in place, youre throwing away three good but empty bombers and within a second up three more new and bomb laden bombers, and seeing both an instant and prolonged net gain (perk points).
Clearly not advantageous or gamey by any definition. :rolleyes:
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By the math, that's (assuming all distances, altitudes and load outs will be the same) that's a ~200% advantage for the bomb hauler.
By the mechanics in place, youre throwing away three good but empty bombers and within a second up three more new and bomb laden bombers, and seeing both an instant and prolonged net gain (perk points).
Clearly not advantageous or gamey by any definition. :rolleyes:
How is that? If you got the bailer to bail on his first trip and you linger around he isn't going to make a second trip.....or are you just going to let him roll on by? If you stop his second trip, he is now back to his possible 100% again. No big deal.
Again, a minor thing like the spawn camping, towering as you hear the bombs drop, or draggin to ack. No real advantage, just lame play.
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I see more players bailing out of fighters to avoid a fight than players bailing out of bombers. I had a good laugh at 800nate's expense after watching him bail out before I got in gun range.
ack-ack
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I've never flown a Bomber mission I did not intend to land; I took off with the intent of hitting my target and returning safely to base. Most of the fun I have enjoyed flying Bombers has come from the fights I've had whilst returning to base.
To the above I will add that most of my Bomber runs take 2-2.5 hours from take off to landing.
For me, bailing is just not an option until my last Bomber has no fight left.
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I've never flown a Bomber mission I did not intend to land; I took off with the intent of hitting my target and returning safely to base. Most of the fun I have enjoyed flying Bombers has come from the fights I've had whilst returning to base.
To the above I will add that most of my Bomber runs take 2-2.5 hours from take off to landing.
For me, bailing is just not an option until my last Bomber has no fight left.
Hey patches, hows retirement treating you?
Im of the same mind. I only bail if there isn't enough left to fly with ..... which happens wayyyyyyy too often :P
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I've never flown a Bomber mission I did not intend to land; I took off with the intent of hitting my target and returning safely to base. Most of the fun I have enjoyed flying Bombers has come from the fights I've had whilst returning to base.
:aok
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Longest bombrun ive done was 3hrs 15 min. One Fighter is not a big problem when in buffs. Most pilots are really bad at attacking buffs and if u are a decent gunner u can land atleast one plane 80% of the times if u just plan your run a little. Most fighters ends up in the toejam storm behind the buffs. W a little practise there is no need to bail in order to avoid fighters. (gives a lot of perk points to kill fighters too)
Best runs ive done is w a gunner, had 5 cons after us for 20 min before they got us. It is really fun to have those hi alt furballs.
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An improvement in game play? :headscratch: At least the second set did not bail.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ebo31723wosc44d/least_the_second_set_did_not_bail.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ebo31723wosc44d/least_the_second_set_did_not_bail.ahf)
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I see more players bailing out of fighters to avoid a fight than players bailing out of bombers. I had a good laugh at 800nate's expense after watching him bail out before I got in gun range.
ack-ack
lol
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I was on my way to bomb a V-base and was alerted to one of our bases being in danger of being captured. Bailed from all three lancs (no cons nearby but would have bailed anyway) and upped at the base in danger.
Is that wrong? Score Smore. :joystick:
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Agreed. He's talented enough that you wonder why he keeps flying a Temp, but I've had no problems with his behavior, seems quite pleasant.
- oldman
:aok
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I was on my way to bomb a V-base and was alerted to one of our bases being in danger of being captured. Bailed from all three lancs (no cons nearby but would have bailed anyway) and upped at the base in danger.
Is that wrong? Score Smore. :joystick:
That's just wrong . Your dead , lol .
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Ahh no.
I think everyone cares about this. Thing is, most of us simply sigh and curse under our breath vs coming to the forums with the issue. As I have stated multiple times in multiple threads, until there is a NEGATIVE put with the bail out option of bombers there wont be a curtailing of this happening. HTC could make it so that getting shot down is less damaging to someone's score, or increase the proxy range and make it so no damage is needed.
I still think there should be a perk price put on all of the heavy bombers. That way if you bomb n bail your Lancasters you will lose perk points. Before anyone panics and raises their blood pressure think of it this way: look at how easy it is to earn bomber perk points and how difficult it is to lose perk points (aside from low alt/suicide missions in B29's).
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I think everyone cares about this. Thing is, most of us simply sigh and curse under our breath vs coming to the forums with the issue. As I have stated multiple times in multiple threads, until there is a NEGATIVE put with the bail out option of bombers there wont be a curtailing of this happening. HTC could make it so that getting shot down is less damaging to someone's score, or increase the proxy range and make it so no damage is needed.
I still think there should be a perk price put on all of the heavy bombers. That way if you bomb n bail your Lancasters you will lose perk points. Before anyone panics and raises their blood pressure think of it this way: look at how easy it is to earn bomber perk points and how difficult it is to lose perk points (aside from low alt/suicide missions in B29's).
+1 to perking heavy bombers. Truth about the ease of accumulation in bomber Perks.
Equally true is a fair difficulty in loosing said perks.
This would also breathe life back in to the medium bombers again as people work towards there beloved heavies.
Though, I bet this would only affect a fairly new AH pilot if implemented. How many have what could be considered-vast stores- of bomber Perks?
Parting thought. Would we see an increase in medium bombers or would the jabo heavy fighter take over.
Rocket bomb dump into lawn darting suicide with all it's glory.
Which really isn't any different than a bomber doing the exact same thing only horizontally and then blinking out of existence.
Edit. Grammar
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How about making kills in bombers part of the ranking system. Maybe that would be a incentive to not bail.
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How about making kills in bombers part of the ranking system. Maybe that would be a incentive to not bail.
that make it fair if a fighter is within icon range and he wont engage then it counts as a kill. same for a fighter that takes damage and dives down to ditch.
semp
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lets put kill switches on fighters who run from bombers while we are at it :rolleyes:
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There are bombers running from fighters as well.
Which I don't really have problem with, even though it may suck on a personal level when I can't reach that high Mossies and B-29s, or Arados diving away.
Using your plane's strengths is quite something different than bailing just to deny someone a kill.
That's why I'm all for matching rpoxy kill range with icon display range. "Oh, it's a hostile 190! I better bail..."
But of course that would not deter the "bailers for war efficiency" in any way.