Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Spikes on February 15, 2009, 05:09:19 PM
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NOT a perk thread, please leave perking it, out of here.
-Lower ENY
-Lower turret traverse speed
-Disallow continuous fire of all 4 guns
-incorporate 20 round clips
Any one of these please?
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+1
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NOT a perk thread, please leave perking it, out of here.
-Lower ENY
-Lower turret traverse speed
-Disallow continuous fire of all 4 guns
-incorporate 20 round clips
Any one of these please?
None of the above. Fly higher. Attack other planes......in the air, at altitude.
Can I have the range increased to 3K on the Wirble please. Some of the planes are staying out of effective range. :devil
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i would say the easest to do would be the 20rd clip and the envy which should help balance the efectiveness of wirble as a plane killer
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i would say the easest to do would be the 20rd clip
Actually that's probably the least easy to implement. Adding loading time between individual, single shots (like in tanks) is easy, it's just lowering the rof. But to simulate the clips, you will have to introduce an additional interval every 20 rounds/barrel. I'm not sure if that's easy to code.
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I think the 2 I like -Lower ENY
-Lower turret traverse speed
-Lower ENY
Its too easy to get a kill with one, and believe me i cant shoot a sitting b-17 with a panzer, but i can get kills with a wirble.
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I dont see how you could feed little cartoon clips. You would need a little cartoon soldier doing the feeding, and I bet when they were getting shot at they feed really, really, fast. Then what do you do about Osties, and Tanks, and machine gun toting half tracks and jeeps ? They will all need little cartoon guys limiting their load times.
For the record the WWs are my biggest enemy but Ive learned to live with them. Dont perk them but "do" geld them. Thats a nice touch.
Im just glad most people start shooting them before we can see them.
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OMG, would you guys quit cryin already!!!
Their gunfire is easy to dodge, and their turrets are
fragile, and a 250lb bomb can kill them...
Geez, what do ya want...
GVs to be sittin ducks for any fighter again? Right???
God forbid ya fly close to the ground and a flak kills ya...
OMG, that NEVER happened in reality, huh???
WWWaaaahhhhh Booooooo!!!!
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OMG, would you guys quit cryin already!!!
Their gunfire is easy to dodge, and their turrets are
fragile, and a 250lb bomb can kill them...
Geez, what do ya want...
GVs to be sittin ducks for any fighter again? Right???
God forbid ya fly close to the ground and a flak kills ya...
OMG, that NEVER happened in reality, huh???
WWWaaaahhhhh Booooooo!!!!
Hard to dodge fire when you're going 350 in a dive in a Mossie with 13 kills, whilst he's just sitting there spitting out 10 grand of rounds, spraying and praying.
This game tries to lean toward flight model realism, and any of these would help it.
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Hard to dodge fire when you're going 350 in a dive in a Mossie with 13 kills, whilst he's just sitting there spitting out 10 grand of rounds, spraying and praying.
This game tries to lean toward flight model realism, and any of these would help it.
If you had 13 kills in a Mossie its a safe bet you didnt T&B with spits to get them. Next time vulch a little less, even still, a diving Mossie is very tough to hit in a wirbel. The thing dives and zooms like its on steroids. Next time be happy with 13 vulches and just go home.
Baaaaa. Another "I got killed by a wirbel while vulching so perk it thread".
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Baaaaa. Another "I got killed by a wirbel while vulching so perk it thread".
You are hard of reading aren't ya dickie boi.
NOT a perk thread, please leave perking it, out of here.
-Lower ENY
-Lower turret traverse speed
-Disallow continuous fire of all 4 guns
-incorporate 20 round clips
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Hard to dodge fire when you're going 350 in a dive in a Mossie with 13 kills, whilst he's just sitting there spitting out 10 grand of rounds, spraying and praying.
This game tries to lean toward flight model realism, and any of these would help it.
I dodge their fire and killem with an A20 all the time...
If you can't do it with a skeeter than "work on it" man!!!!
They kill me too, but thats how the ball bounces...
RC
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If you had 13 kills in a Mossie its a safe bet you didnt T&B with spits to get them. Next time vulch a little less, even still, a diving Mossie is very tough to hit in a wirbel. The thing dives and zooms like its on steroids. Next time be happy with 13 vulches and just go home.
5 vulches, 8 clean kills
Nothing is hard to hit when you have 300 rounds to blow.
Baaaaa. Another "I got killed by a wirbel while vulching so perk it thread".
Don't mean to be an arse, but you should get some glasses. If you're going to accuse me of asking for a perk for it, then you should actually read what I said before replying. Thanks.
I dodge their fire and killem with an A20 all the time...
If you can't do it with a skeeter than "work on it" man!!!!
They kill me too, but thats how the ball bounces...
RC
Realism, again. Wirbles, as facts have proven, were not able in RL to fire 300 rounds at once, without stopping.
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Settle down girls. This has nothing to do with effectiveness. It's about accurately representing the real thing, which our current wirbel doesn't do.
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Settle down girls. This has nothing to do with effectiveness. It's about accurately representing the real thing, which our current wirbel doesn't do.
Probably not, but there are several aircraft that take wirbles out effectively, this also does not accurately represent the real thing.
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Probably not, but there are several aircraft that take wirbles out effectively, this also does not accurately represent the real thing.
How so?
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I have been killed in a wirble by a K4, a nik, neither dropped ord, just a lucky hit I guess.
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I have been killed in a wirble by a K4, a nik, neither dropped ord, just a lucky hit I guess.
I think we meant the flight model and actual build of the Wirble, not what can kill it.
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I have been killed in a wirble by a K4, a nik, neither dropped ord, just a lucky hit I guess.
My guess would be that HE ammunition pouring through the big hole in the roof had something to do with it. In the flakpanzers you don't have to go through any kind of armor to kill the inhabitants.
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I think we meant the flight model and actual build of the Wirble, not what can kill it.
I would delete the word "flight" in the above statement. :)
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I have been killed in a wirble by a K4, a nik, neither dropped ord, just a lucky hit I guess.
You're driving a convertible.
OMG, would you guys quit cryin already!!!
Their gunfire is easy to dodge, and their turrets are
fragile, and a 250lb bomb can kill them...
Geez, what do ya want...
GVs to be sittin ducks for any fighter again? Right???
God forbid ya fly close to the ground and a flak kills ya...
OMG, that NEVER happened in reality, huh???
WWWaaaahhhhh Booooooo!!!!
They're asking for more realism. Which you're basing your point on.
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Man there is a boatload of stuff in the game
that doesn't represent reality..
Its "fudged" to make the game playable or competitive...
Its funny how people take advantage of one of those
things, and whine about the other, whenever its convenient..
OK, castrate the wirby, and I'll be killin GV's like I was before..
I guess its just too difficult for the whiners out there, Booo Hoooo!!!
Whatever!
RC
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Man there is a boatload of stuff in the game
that doesn't represent reality..
Its "fudged" to make the game playable or competitive...
Its funny how people take advantage of one of those
things, and whine about the other, whenever its convenient..
OK, castrate the wirby, and I'll be killin GV's like I was before..
I guess its just too difficult for the whiners out there, Booo Hoooo!!!
Whatever!
RC
This argument is equivalent to:
There's more than one thing in the game that is inaccurate
Therefore we should not fix this inaccuracy
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Man there is a boatload of stuff in the game
that doesn't represent reality..
Its "fudged" to make the game playable or competitive...
Its funny how people take advantage of one of those
things, and whine about the other, whenever its convenient..
OK, castrate the wirby, and I'll be killin GV's like I was before..
I guess its just too difficult for the whiners out there, Booo Hoooo!!!
Whatever!
RC
And you say this like HTC does not try to make it real. If he did not try you'd see lancs doing barrel rolls like a F14 could do.
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You are hard of reading aren't ya dickie boi.
Heres what he said...troll.
Hard to dodge fire when you're going 350 in a dive in a Mossie with 13 kills, whilst he's just sitting there spitting out 10 grand of rounds, spraying and praying.
This game tries to lean toward flight model realism, and any of these would help it.
Didya get that troll? Sure sounds to me he was shot down while in a Mossie diving 350 mph trying to rack up another vulch. So while technically its not a perk thread it is another, "perk the thing that just shot me down thread".
Settle down girls. This has nothing to do with effectiveness. It's about accurately representing the real thing, which our current wirbel doesn't do.
C'mere cutie. Gives us a kiss. Heres a tidbit even a self professed Intellectual like you should know. Nothing in this game is modeled as it was exactly. Nothing, and certainly no other GV either.
Perk it? Geld it? whats the difference? "The bloody thing shot me down so I want it stepped on"! :mad:
Yaknow Bronk more and more you remind me of these little man/girls I get who call 911 after they open their yaps in a bar, get smacked upside the head for it, and then start shrieking for the Police and their lawyers. 39 yo is a little to old to be following somebody around in a internet forum as a troll.
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Why the Wirbelwind didn't have an ENY of 5 from the outset I'll never know. I had an Ostwind up the other night, plinking away at Il2s. After I started to get frustrated that they could take 2-3 37mm hits and keep going, I decided to up a Wirbelwind. The thing is disgustingly easy to aim and kill with. A 1/2 second burst at an Il2 will send it into the ground, and I was getting crossing shots surprisingly easily. Keep in mind that I almost never use GV's.
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Perk it? Geld it? whats the difference? "The bloody thing shot me down so I want it stepped on"! :mad:
I got the sense of that too,,, but instantly it changed to modeling?? :rolleyes:
Why the Wirbelwind didn't have an ENY of 5 from the outset I'll never know. I had an Ostwind up the other night, plinking away at Il2s. After I started to get frustrated that they could take 2-3 37mm hits and keep going, I decided to up a Wirbelwind. The thing is disgustingly easy to aim and kill with. A 1/2 second burst at an Il2 will send it into the ground, and I was getting crossing shots surprisingly easily. Keep in mind that I almost never use GV's.
Thats funny, I get smacked by IL's all the time and I am laying out some lead to try to hit them before they shoot from 1.5 k out.... you easily take them down with a 1/2 second burst....?? your much better than I.... :noid
Come to think of it, I dont think I have ever killed and IL with anything less than a few seconds of burst....... :cry
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I could live with a lower eny. But even that?? They are good at one thing and one thing only. Pretty much base defense flak. Yes you can take them alond on tank operations, actually you have to, but when up against tanks they get mowed down fairly easy.
One thing I like about the lower eny idea is that your own tankers will target them quicker if they have a lower eny, say 15 or 10 eny. In IL-2s, pretty much all I fly, you learn to hate the things. And I do hate them. But I also respect them and admire a lot of the bish and nit flak gunners who are a threat even way past icon range.
So a lower eny isnt unreasonable. And spike I didnt mean to bust your chops so dont take it personal. You must admit this is just another version of the "perk the WW" drama being replayed. Perk it? Geld it? same difference.
But remodel it? That just isnt going to happen. :salute
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Sure sounds to me he was shot down while in a Mossie diving 350 mph trying to rack up another vulch. So while technically its not a perk thread it is another, "perk the thing that just shot me down thread".
m as a troll.
Thanks for accusing me again. Don't accuse unless you have cold, hard evidence that I actually did it.
I believe I had just roped a con, then was RTB and decided to deck-it to RTB. I was about 1.5K from where the flak was, and saw him and turned away slightly. Then, my tail was gone with one ping, maybe two. It was obvious that he was spraying, and it would have been a lower chance that he would have killed me if it was actually modeled right.
No, I will not admit something that's not true. This is by no means a perk thread.
It doesn't take a full remodel, just a few changes in code, but it will help game play oh so much, and make the model and the way people use it much more reasonable.
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Thanks for accusing me again. Don't accuse unless you have cold, hard evidence that I actually did it.
I believe I had just roped a con, then was RTB and decided to deck-it to RTB. I was about 1.5K from where the flak was, and saw him and turned away slightly. Then, my tail was gone with one ping, maybe two. It was obvious that he was spraying, and it would have been a lower chance that he would have killed me if it was actually modeled right.
No, I will not admit something that's not true. This is by no means a perk thread.
It doesn't take a full remodel, just a few changes in code, but it will help game play oh so much, and make the model and the way people use it much more reasonable.
The tail was made of wood. What do you expect? The tail of the IL2 is made of wood as well, luckily a lot of flak gunners dont know that. Hitting an IL2s tail is the easiest way to shoot it down.
And your right. Its not a "perk thread". Its just a "pork the GV that shot me down" thread. My apologies.
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The tail was made of wood. What do you expect? The tail of the IL2 is made of wood as well, luckily a lot of flak gunners dont know that. Hitting an IL2s tail is the easiest way to shoot it down.
And your right. Its not a "perk thread". Its just a "pork the GV that shot me down" thread. My apologies.
Porking it down to how it should be.
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Porking it down to how it should be.
Where do you stop tho? ? With just the wirbel? Why not every other GV or plane as well? Why not the ostie too? You can basically spray all night in one of those too. Ships guns as well. They arent even close to the actual load, traverse, and aim times. Even the mossie you can stick stir and jerk it around in ways that were impossable in real life.
Things is there is an element of gaminess in every vehicle, ship, or plane in the game. But I believe none of them are gamier then the vulch session of before, or the tank camps before the new IL2.
BTW what is your in game name? Mine is bombrich so I'll tell you mine right off.
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I think the eny should go down but that's it...in the range of 10-15. Not uncommon to get several kills and land with 10-15 perks. Stop vulching and WW's are easy to avoid.
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Here was his post today #12 at 1403 hours about his Mossie.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=16802;sa=showPosts
I guess my DSL company thought the best time to reset the servers was when I had 17 kills in a mossie.
So if he gives me his game name he should show 30 kills in a Mossie today right? Assuming two flights, one where he got 13 kills and another where he got 17. And then got disco'd? :rofl Right?
Oh but for those bloody wirbels.
And heres one yesterday with him whining about puffy ack. :lol http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=16802;sa=showPosts;start=15
Just got whacked by CV puffy ack in a K4 in a 1v1 with a Seafire. Was a good fight too, please make puffy ack target BOMB ARMED PLANES!
And the day before it was his 262 killed by puffy. :rofl
When you get shot down in a 262 flying CAP, whilst buffs are flying overhead going for the CV, and you are taking the puffy ack, you might rethink that.
Keep it coming Spikey. :lol
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IIRC his in game name is mstwntd.
If so he has 63 mossie kills right now.
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But remodel it? That just isnt going to happen. :salute
Why?
The elevation on the Sherman turret was proven to be too slow, it got fixed. Information was brought to light proving that the 109 gondolas didn't have the correct ammo load, it was increased.
If a solid case is made for the traverse speed being wrong on the WW I see no reason why they won't adjust it.
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Why?
The elevation on the Sherman turret was proven to be too slow, it got fixed. Information was brought to light proving that the 109 gondolas didn't have the correct ammo load, it was increased.
If a solid case is made for the traverse speed being wrong on the WW I see no reason why they won't adjust it.
Indeed, it doesn't take a full remodel, just small fixes to make the game more accurate.
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The tail was made of wood. What do you expect? The tail of the IL2 is made of wood as well, luckily a lot of flak gunners dont know that. Hitting an IL2s tail is the easiest way to shoot it down.
And your right. Its not a "perk thread". Its just a "pork the GV that shot me down" thread. My apologies.
The wood of the Mossie was better able to absorb HE hits than the aluminum aircraft were. Sorry to pop your bubble.
That said, if a Wirbelwind gets a good hit on any fighter it is almost certainly toast.
I do see a lot of people defending their inaccurately modeled toy here and that is just stupid. All inaccuracies should be fixed when possible.
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I have been killed in a wirble by a K4, a nik, neither dropped ord, just a lucky hit I guess.
I've killed many wirbs with 4 50 cals, come straight down on em and fill em full of lead. :aok
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Heres what he said...troll.
Didya get that troll? Sure sounds to me he was shot down while in a Mossie diving 350 mph trying to rack up another vulch. So while technically its not a perk thread it is another, "perk the thing that just shot me down thread".
C'mere cutie. Gives us a kiss. Heres a tidbit even a self professed Intellectual like you should know. Nothing in this game is modeled as it was exactly. Nothing, and certainly no other GV either.
Perk it? Geld it? whats the difference? "The bloody thing shot me down so I want it stepped on"! :mad:
Yaknow Bronk more and more you remind me of these little man/girls I get who call 911 after they open their yaps in a bar, get smacked upside the head for it, and then start shrieking for the Police and their lawyers. 39 yo is a little to old to be following somebody around in a internet forum as a troll.
And you sound like the cop who doesn't like being told hes wrong. Like I said before get used to it. :bird
ps dickie boie Spikes never mentioned perk. So shove that where it will do you the most good. :aok
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I think the wirble is just fine the way it is. Ever go into a wirble nest of about 10 of em with an m8? Its a slaughter, one hit to the turret and those wirbles are useless.
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bombrich you come across as being very bitter. Nowhere does Spikes say he was vulching, and your disbelief that someone can have a 13 kill sortie without vulching should be pretty insulting to him, he's been flying for some time and is a pretty good pilot.
Nobody wants the wirbel's performance below what it should be, people want the wirbel's performance in game to be accurate to what we know about it historically. And, according to some, it is over-modeled now. If this can be proven, why in the world would you have any objection to making it more historically accurate?
Diatribes against "vulchers" just sound petty. You are creating a linkage where there is not necessarily one; the objectionable wirbel behavior in this instance, and in most instances I've encountered, does not take place on the fields and is not an "answer" to vulchers. It is when someone can spawn a wirbel near a low alt fight, park right below the fight and pick off honest combatants with a quad 20mm gun loadout that is over-modeled. Does that seem fair in a game that is focused on air combat?
Would be nice if the uberwind encouraged people to actually set some hard caps and get the fights off the deck...but doesn't happen. So the next logical move, if people are going to use wirbels for that purpose, is to at least model the thing correctly. Or perk it.
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Trotter, a single wirble can clear the entire area around it before any of them can get a shot off. It's lethal from a single ping on any part of any fighter/attacker out to 2.5k (and I've had wirb tracers bracketing my plane left and right by a hair's width so far out from the offending GV that is 3-4k out), the speed at which it fires and the number of guns, the super powered rounds they fire, means they can put up 4 walls of ammo so fast that you can't avoid them, fly between the rounds (which for any other gun is a weakness) or even get near. You can't even rocket, bomb, or strafe a wirb without it killing you before you're even inside drop/fire range.
It is, to put it bluntly, bull****.
It fires too fast, for too long, moves at super retarded speeds.
It's a GV that's taken up well over 90% of all aircraft kills in the entire GV family, is used and abused repeatedly and at every fight I see in the game, and the performance specs are way way above what they were in real life.
So yeah, perking it would be the best solution but fixing the damned uber fire rate and specs would be good as well. Even with those fixed we'd still see enemy wirbs parked on friendly runways at all times like they do now.
If all else fails, they should simply remove the secondary fire button. Make it ONLY EVER fire 2 guns at a time. This simulates reloading the second pair of guns while the first pair fires, and vice versa.
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Trotter, a single wirble can clear the entire area around it before any of them can get a shot off. It's lethal from a single ping on any part of any fighter/attacker out to 2.5k (
Impossible.... ww is 20mm and they disappear at 1.5k.
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No, they don't.
I've seen wirb tracers flying past me from WAY more than that. Hell, icon disappears at 1.5 for GVs, and they damn near tear me to shreds well before icon ever shows up.
EDIT: Case in point, I think I have film of an LTARD in a wirb firing his rounds up at an angle from miles away from a town, and LANDING HITS on the town buildings, almost from the spawn point he started at.
More than 1.5 for damn sure.
EDIT2: Your tests may not show the hit sprite after a certain range (this happens for me) but that doesn't mean the round has stopped. I've landed hits out far enough in fighter-v-fighter to not see hit sprite but to reap the rewards. The rounds are still there, you just don't see them land all the time.
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Another abuse of the WW is in field attacks. Two or three WWs can take down the town faster than the same number of, if not MORE, Tigers. So no, it's not just the vulcher's day they're ruining.
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No, they don't.
I've seen wirb tracers flying past me from WAY more than that. Hell, icon disappears at 1.5 for GVs, and they damn near tear me to shreds well before icon ever shows up.
EDIT: Case in point, I think I have film of an LTARD in a wirb firing his rounds up at an angle from miles away from a town, and LANDING HITS on the town buildings, almost from the spawn point he started at.
More than 1.5 for damn sure.
EDIT2: Your tests may not show the hit sprite after a certain range (this happens for me) but that doesn't mean the round has stopped. I've landed hits out far enough in fighter-v-fighter to not see hit sprite but to reap the rewards. The rounds are still there, you just don't see them land all the time.
I'd like to see that film then. Because I've yet to take a hit past 1.5 .
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Trotter, a single wirble can clear the entire area around it before any of them can get a shot off. It's lethal from a single ping on any part of any fighter/attacker out to 2.5k (and I've had wirb tracers bracketing my plane left and right by a hair's width so far out from the offending GV that is 3-4k out), the speed at which it fires and the number of guns, the super powered rounds they fire, means they can put up 4 walls of ammo so fast that you can't avoid them, fly between the rounds (which for any other gun is a weakness) or even get near. You can't even rocket, bomb, or strafe a wirb without it killing you before you're even inside drop/fire range.
It is, to put it bluntly, bull****.
It fires too fast, for too long, moves at super retarded speeds.
It's a GV that's taken up well over 90% of all aircraft kills in the entire GV family, is used and abused repeatedly and at every fight I see in the game, and the performance specs are way way above what they were in real life.
So yeah, perking it would be the best solution but fixing the damned uber fire rate and specs would be good as well. Even with those fixed we'd still see enemy wirbs parked on friendly runways at all times like they do now.
If all else fails, they should simply remove the secondary fire button. Make it ONLY EVER fire 2 guns at a time. This simulates reloading the second pair of guns while the first pair fires, and vice versa.
Good way to put it. And you will still see Wirbs all over, but their effectiveness will be limited greatly, and you might actually have a .1% chance of surviving as opposed to a .0001% chance.
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Equipment in the game should modeled as accurately as possible, period, and WW rounds will NOT register on the paper .target at 1.5K
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Isn't it strange to see someone defending a model known to be inaccurate, and even accusing those who want it to be accurate of whining? Talk about the twilight zone... :huh
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Isn't it strange to see someone defending a model known to be inaccurate, and even accusing those who want it to be accurate of whining? Talk about the twilight zone... :huh
Stranger that we agree on some things and not others. :noid ;)
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Equipment in the game should modeled as accurately as possible, period, and WW rounds will NOT register on the paper .target at 1.5K
For all you know that's a limitation of the .target command and not the rounds themselves.
You can fire a yak's cannon round from 1.7k at 20,000+ at a formation of B-17s and land hits. It all depends on the life of the round and the atmospheric conditions. Last night in the MA some newbie was sitting on the runway at a20 firing his 75mm down the runway. We saw the shells probably 6 miles from the field, climbing up past 8-10k, and they were whizzing below us (he still parked on the runway). My squaddies saw this and had to tell me what was firing at me. MGs have shorter lives, cannons longer lives depending on the ammo itself. Seeing as this is an AAA round with the most potent firepower any 20mm gun in the game has, I'd say that's a long lifespan.
Bronk: Here's the wirb video, unedited. You'll notice they're more than capable of killing outside 1.5k range. They can track, follow, and fire upon you before you have icons on them. LTARghst even laughs after we kill him. He knows what he was doing. Can't even bring bombs or rockets on these wirbs without risking death before you get anywhere near range, let alone guns. It was PURE LUCK that I took out ghst's gun turret. I've made the same attack run dozens of times and not taken out the gun most times. I think this was only the 3rd time I've turreted a wirb since it's been introduced, and one of those times was with a T-34.
http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/Bs_wirb.zip
1.4mb
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Thats not a wirb Krusty! :rofl
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Looked again. Right you are!
I just picked the first film I had. Note the first one is the ost, others are still firing at long ranges as well.
I cleaned house after I started using the name popup dialog box to name my films, so I lost a lot that I didn't want to review. I know I had more in those.
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Also want to point out that a Mossie that fires steadily at 1000 range will never close with a P51D on the deck. Just saying. :D
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:rofl :rofl :rofl OMG LOL!!!!
Oh, I guess that you're not supposed to risk death when attacking flaks huh?
Geez!!!
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Not that funny. Just one of MANY examples. I know I recorded half a dozen before I got sick of trying to record the BS the wirble creates, but going back I only have about 20 un-named ah film files now (used to have over a hundred) so either it's lost or I can't be bothered to go find any of the unnamed ones.
You edited your post after I replied, so I'll edit mine:
:rofl :rofl :rofl OMG LOL!!!!
Oh, I guess that you're not supposed to risk death when attacking flaks huh?
Geez!!!
The risk of going anywhere near a wirble is instant death, whereas they can pretty much defend themselves against most attacks in the game. Unless you level bomb them from 6000 ft (which is still under 3k gun range, FYI), they can shoot you down before you can get within accurate rocket range or bomb range, let alone guns range.
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Not that funny. Just one of MANY examples. I know I recorded half a dozen before I got sick of trying to record the BS the wirble creates, but going back I only have about 20 un-named ah film files now (used to have over a hundred) so either it's lost or I can't be bothered to go find any of the unnamed ones.
You edited your post after I replied, so I'll edit mine:
The risk of going anywhere near a wirble is instant death, whereas they can pretty much defend themselves against most attacks in the game. Unless you level bomb them from 6000 ft (which is still under 3k gun range, FYI), they can shoot you down before you can get within accurate rocket range or bomb range, let alone guns range.
I have spent a lot of time in a Wirble and I have never gotten a kill at 1.5k. I have found the effective range their guns is 1k or less. I saw in a post somewhere that the in game range of the Wirble's guns is only 1.7k. I don't know if that is true, but I can say from my standpoint that anything past 1k are wasted shots. On the other side I have had many of eggs dropped on me from higher than 1k which resulted in me getting sent to the tower.
I agree, at least with me if you get under 1k around my Wirble you most likely will get pinged. On the second pass you will probably die. The only time I find it difficult to hit something under 1k is when they are doing 400mph across the field, unless they are coming straight at me.
Fred
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OMG, would you guys quit cryin already!!!
Their gunfire is easy to dodge, and their turrets are
fragile, and a 250lb bomb can kill them...
Geez, what do ya want...
GVs to be sittin ducks for any fighter again? Right???
God forbid ya fly close to the ground and a flak kills ya...
OMG, that NEVER happened in reality, huh???
WWWaaaahhhhh Booooooo!!!!
So a request to model a GV more in according to it's real life stats is considered whining by you?
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Can't even bring bombs or rockets on these wirbs without risking death before you get anywhere near range, let alone guns. It was PURE LUCK that I took out ghst's gun turret. I've made the same attack run dozens of times and not taken out the gun most times. I think this was only the 3rd time I've turreted a wirb since it's been introduced, and one of those times was with a T-34.
Then maybe you should check into the TA. I've only been in AH for a month or two now, and let me say, as someone who spends most of his time in ground attack a/c or gv's- panzer and the wirble, you are suckin on eggs if you cant turret a wirble. I've had mustangs turret me, typhy's, spits, all kinds of planes- let alone the damned IL2's. However, I've also learned how to bomb ACCURATELY from outside of 1.5 and use not only a dive bomb but a toss method as well- coming from my other WWII combat flight sims, it wasnt hard to adjust.
The IL2 is also a huge favorite of mine, and all it takes to kill a wirble with it is a little patience. Most mistakes that I see people make is they come in waaaay too slow and straight right down my gunsights trying to get the quick kill. They make SUCH an easy target. The guys who really make me hate life when I'm in a wirble come in from the sun, at an extremely steep angle, near vertical, and are jinking around- but they line up for the 1 to 2 second burst that turrets me, then peel off and consider their next attack if I survived. The other method I hate is trying to track 2 IL2's that are running in at the same time...
And the other scenario, if your trying to bomb them, and "its just too hard" :rofl take up two 500lb-ers, or heck, make it 2 1000lb-ers and pickle them off with a slight delay either manual or preset along the MTD (Maneuver Target Direction --- along the axis of travel, since they cant pivot) and voila, rinse repeat, and stop crying about these trivial matters.
Sooooo many things are modeled incorrectly in sooooo many games. Yet, I have the feeling that if every sim were modeled perfectly, noone would play them for lack of skill or patience, I mean, why dont we have random engine or component failures in the flight model? random track damage from overspeed for gv's, etc. etc. the list goes on and on and on. I guess in the end is HTC does it best to provide a balanced game that can satisfy as many as possible while also ensuring a decent profit margin. Nothing will be perfect for everyone, and odds are if you cry about too much, someday it may inadvertently-- or intentionally for that matter, nerf something you like due to the lack of balance.
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So a request to model a GV more in according to it's real life stats is considered whining by you?
There are so many aspects of this game that are "FUDGED"
to make them work, or make them competitive, that it makes
no sense to whine about ONE...
If ya want real life, then lets have it, ALL THE WAY AROUND!!!
I'm all for it.. But people shouldn't whine about one aspect that
seems to be a little off kilter, just because it flips their oxcart..
And then take advantage of another whenever its convenient...
What I see here is, Uberpilots get popped by newbs, Waaaa!!!!
Wirby has been around for a while now... Ya mean everyone
Doesn't know enough to stay out of reach??? You're Kidding!!!
Why all of a sudden, is the model in error??? Because some
goldenboys ox has been getting gored lately???
I'm an A20G drivin GV killer, Wirby is my #1 enemy.. They were
double tough at first, but I learned a better way to kill em..
Its still FAR from easy, but I don't whine about it...
I'll leave that to the primma donna's out there...
So now we have the IL2 flying tank, with its new "Nuclear guns"..
And the wirby is going to be castrated.. Just great!!!!
RC
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I'm an A20G drivin GV killer, Wirby is my #1 enemy.. They were
double tough at first, but I learned a better way to kill em..
Its still FAR from easy, but I don't whine about it...
I'll leave that to the primma donna's out there...
So now we have the IL2 flying tank, with its new "Nuclear guns"..
And the wirby is going to be castrated.. Just great!!!!
Yes, I hate you A20 pilots with your 6 (or is it 8?) bombs. A good A20 pilot reeks havok on armored columns, imo...
But I bet you get some altitude and speed before you go to work on armor, dont you :aok Huge concept :O, cause the easy A20 targets from a wirble are the ones that are slow, fat, and fallow hanging at the edge of a stall after lifting off with too much fuel for a base defend, to bust up the armored advanced- much like ALOT of IL2 sticks. Its usually these guys that complain in game too. Usually the A20/IL2/CAS sticks- the good ones- just tell ya good shot and chalk it up to a learning point.
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There are so many aspects of this game that are "FUDGED"
to make them work, or make them competitive, that it makes
no sense to whine about ONE...
If ya want real life, then lets have it, ALL THE WAY AROUND!!!
I'm all for it.. But people shouldn't whine about one aspect that
seems to be a little off kilter, just because it flips their oxcart..
And then take advantage of another whenever its convenient...
What I see here is, Uberpilots get popped by newbs, Waaaa!!!!
Wirby has been around for a while now... Ya mean everyone
Doesn't know enough to stay out of reach??? You're Kidding!!!
Why all of a sudden, is the model in error??? Because some
goldenboys ox has been getting gored lately???
I'm an A20G drivin GV killer, Wirby is my #1 enemy.. They were
double tough at first, but I learned a better way to kill em..
Its still FAR from easy, but I don't whine about it...
I'll leave that to the primma donna's out there...
So now we have the IL2 flying tank, with its new "Nuclear guns"..
And the wirby is going to be castrated.. Just great!!!!
RC
So according to your logic, one should give up pointing out individual errors and request them being fixed? Just because other things are "screwed" too? "Fix them all at once" or don't fix them at all?
BTW, I haven't seen anyone posting any kind of documentation or proof that the Il-2 guns are "nuclear" or overpowered. I have just seen whines, but no numbers or facts to support the point. If I could find any data contradicting the ingame performance, I would post that too.
The turret traverse of the Wirbelwind or the ROF of the gun are indeed documented and DO diverge from AH2 values.
And please note I'm an avid Wirbel driver myself, and i kill al lot more WW than I'm being killed by too...
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Then maybe you should check into the TA. I've only been in AH for a month or two now, and let me say, as someone who spends most of his time in ground attack a/c or gv's- panzer and the wirble, you are suckin on eggs if you cant turret a wirble. I've had mustangs turret me, typhy's, spits, all kinds of planes- let alone the damned IL2's. However, I've also learned how to bomb ACCURATELY from outside of 1.5 and use not only a dive bomb but a toss method as well- coming from my other WWII combat flight sims, it wasnt hard to adjust.
The IL2 is also a huge favorite of mine, and all it takes to kill a wirble with it is a little patience. Most mistakes that I see people make is they come in waaaay too slow and straight right down my gunsights trying to get the quick kill. They make SUCH an easy target. The guys who really make me hate life when I'm in a wirble come in from the sun, at an extremely steep angle, near vertical, and are jinking around- but they line up for the 1 to 2 second burst that turrets me, then peel off and consider their next attack if I survived. The other method I hate is trying to track 2 IL2's that are running in at the same time...
And the other scenario, if your trying to bomb them, and "its just too hard" :rofl take up two 500lb-ers, or heck, make it 2 1000lb-ers and pickle them off with a slight delay either manual or preset along the MTD (Maneuver Target Direction --- along the axis of travel, since they cant pivot) and voila, rinse repeat, and stop crying about these trivial matters.
Sooooo many things are modeled incorrectly in sooooo many games. Yet, I have the feeling that if every sim were modeled perfectly, noone would play them for lack of skill or patience, I mean, why dont we have random engine or component failures in the flight model? random track damage from overspeed for gv's, etc. etc. the list goes on and on and on. I guess in the end is HTC does it best to provide a balanced game that can satisfy as many as possible while also ensuring a decent profit margin. Nothing will be perfect for everyone, and odds are if you cry about too much, someday it may inadvertently-- or intentionally for that matter, nerf something you like due to the lack of balance.
Good post. And un biased I might add.
Some of you need to read a bit more carefully and pay attention to what some of the newcomers are saying.
Lushe, you said "BTW, I haven't seen anyone posting any kind of documentation or proof that the Il-2 guns are "nuclear" or overpowered. " are you serious?, everyone old and new in this game gets introduced to the IL in an abrupt and violent manner with its (nuclear) as you call it, gun., Its probably the first thing someone will see when upping a GV and as far as the lethality of it, its guns are deadly with a skilled user as well as a wirble being deadly with a skilled user.
Look at the big picture here, someone got shot down because they got greedy, made a mistake by not keeping SA of where he was and the potential of GV's near ground level around a spawn or field and got blasted because he lost 14 kills :rolleyes: then comes here to convince HTC or anyone that will listen that the wirble is jacked up to the point it needs to be remodeled, perked, castrated etc. instead of manning up and admitting where he went wrong. Get a grip man, go get some training time and most of all, if you want attention or a slap on the back for landing umteen kills, go do like some of the others have done and sit at a spawn and rack up 40 kills without firing a shot....... now that is jacked up.... :lol
Whats next guys, complaining about getting shot down by higher eny planes and how they need to be perked more....?? :P
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Lushe, you said "BTW, I haven't seen anyone posting any kind of documentation or proof that the Il-2 guns are "nuclear" or overpowered. " are you serious?, everyone old and new in this game gets introduced to the IL in an abrupt and violent manner with its (nuclear) as you call it, gun., Its probably the first thing someone will see when upping a GV and as far as the lethality of it, its guns are deadly with a skilled user as well as a wirble being deadly with a skilled user.
I am serious. Though I'm not sure if you understood me right, or if I am merely misreading your post now ;)
First I didn't call it "nuclear", I am merely quoting RipChord. And I know the devastating effect the IL2 has in this game, and I pretty much know all the complaints about it, especially all the claims about its 37mm being too powerful.
My point is, I have just heard that, and not much more. Complaints and whines, but no one has actually come up with any kind of hint / "proof" that the armore penetration of the NS-37 is actually overmodeled.
Sure, I wondered myself about the lethality of the new il-2 guns, but after doing some research I have only found some numbers supporting that lethality and none to put it into question. Yet. ;)
So that's why did not wish for or even demand the Il2 guns should be fixed. But I found data on Wirbel's turret traverse & ROF that contradicts AH modeleing so I posted about it.
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Granted the Wirble could use some minor adjusting, as has been already pointed out. I won't argue that case for or against.
It will happen if and when HTC decides to do something. Its out of our hands.
However, even if we had those issues fixed guys are still going to die to wirbles, and they are still going to whine about it.
Whats with everyone whining about dieing these days?
If you died, you made a mistake! YOU DID, not the guy that killed you, but YOU. Accept it, embrace it, recognize it, and learn from it. Try not to do it again.
Airborne, excellent post sir, and right on target.
Most of the guys that I see attacking my wirble are
A too low
B too slow
C attacking one at a time
D Coming straight into my guns.
Attack from above, never get inside the 1k mark, attack in pairs, like it was a bomber, the guy getting shot at peels off.
Letting the other guy get through. All simple very effective techniques that work.
I got 4 kills in a wirble yesterday while tipped on my side! So I had a very limited field of fire, but it really didn't matter.
I'd see the enemy plane at about 800 entering my kill zone and by 400 normally they were shedding parts. This with everything upside down and backwards.
Like it or not, the iL2 and the Wirble are very good foils for each other.
And like it or not that means balanced gameplay, and that means more fun for all.
Don't want to die to wirbles, then don't fly within 1k of them. For pete's sake don't fly straight at them.
Ohh and for the record, the Yak9T has the same guns as the iL2, has had them for years. Didn't see anyone complaining about THOSE guns. But it has a shorter clip, and is not as heavily armored as the iL2.
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No, they don't.
I've seen wirb tracers flying past me from WAY more than that. Hell, icon disappears at 1.5 for GVs, and they damn near tear me to shreds well before icon ever shows up.
EDIT: Case in point, I think I have film of an LTARD in a wirb firing his rounds up at an angle from miles away from a town, and LANDING HITS on the town buildings, almost from the spawn point he started at.
More than 1.5 for damn sure.
EDIT2: Your tests may not show the hit sprite after a certain range (this happens for me) but that doesn't mean the round has stopped. I've landed hits out far enough in fighter-v-fighter to not see hit sprite but to reap the rewards. The rounds are still there, you just don't see them land all the time.
As far as I know, that is inaccurate. .50s and 20mm disappear around 1.5k, the .30 cal families disappear a bit sooner. The only rounds that go farther are the large caliber stuff like 37mm on up. I'm not sure what range the 37mm goes away at on the Ostwind, but I know it is farther than 1.5k.
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Krusty: I believe anything bigger than 30mm goes past 1.5.
So your 2.5 ww rounds are false.
Ghost: Your citing the yak-t has one flaw. I fires HE not AP. That makes a world of difference when plinking gvs.
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It's very easy to test the range of the WW guns in offline mode.
Use the .target command to see at what maximum distance hit's still register. If range is getting really long, bring the target back with .target 200 to see if there are really no hits (so seeing the hit sprite is getting irrelevant). Use .target 0 to "refresh" and delete all previous bullet holes.
I did that and found (if I recall correctly) my bullets were hitting the target up to 1840 yards, at 1841 yards there were no more holes in the target.
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Hard to dodge fire when you're going 350 in a dive in a Mossie with 13 kills, whilst he's just sitting there spitting out 10 grand of rounds, spraying and praying.
This game tries to lean toward flight model realism, and any of these would help it.
alright :furious how many pilots landed 13 kills in "real" fighting, in one sortie? :O
why would you be flying below 1,5 k, with 13 kills? :cry
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It's very easy to test the range of the WW guns in offline mode.
Use the .target command to see at what maximum distance hit's still register. If range is getting really long, bring the target back with .target 200 to see if there are really no hits (so seeing the hit sprite is getting irrelevant). Use .target 0 to "refresh" and delete all previous bullet holes.
I did that and found (if I recall correctly) my bullets were hitting the target up to 1840 yards, at 1841 yards there were no more holes in the target.
Keep in mind that your shooting at a stationary target with perfect conditions,,, very unlikely you will effectively take something down at those ranges where the target is moving much less getting lucky enough to ping it.....
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Keep in mind that your shooting at a stationary target with perfect conditions,,, very unlikely you will effectively take something down at those ranges where the target is moving much less getting lucky enough to ping it.....
Of course.
But if testing reveals you can't register any hits on a stationary target beyond 1840 yrads, all the ingame claims of "he shot me at 2.5k!" seem to be... well, less credible ;)
And that's my whole point. :)
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Of course.
But if testing reveals you can't register any hits on a stationary target beyond 1840 yrads, all the ingame claims of "he shot me at 2.5k!" seem to be... well, less credible ;)
And that's my whole point. :)
If you do not get 800 yard away, the ww and osti share the FLAK icon. So I'm guessing people are misidentifying their targets.
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Of course.
But if testing reveals you can't register any hits on a stationary target beyond 1840 yrads, all the ingame claims of "he shot me at 2.5k!" seem to be... well, less credible ;)
And that's my whole point. :)
I agree. The only thing I don't agree with is using the nice way of saying an out right lie, "less credible". But your too nice of a guy.... :lol
If you do not get 800 yard away, the ww and osti share the FLAK icon. So I'm guessing people are misidentifying their targets.
That is probably the culprit and more feasible. He may have thought it was a WW but actuality an Osti.... :lol
Rant off...
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The only thing I don't agree with is using the nice way of saying an out right lie, "less credible".
If I think someone is outright lying, I will say it. No need for using a "nice way" of saying it in that case.
I know what kind of tricks perception can play on you when you are in combat. Many times I thought this and that happened a certain way... until I checked my film
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Of course.
But if testing reveals you can't register any hits on a stationary target beyond 1840 yrads, all the ingame claims of "he shot me at 2.5k!" seem to be... well, less credible ;)
And that's my whole point. :)
i have not tested the "exact" range on buildings in game yet but i will! i do know that when firing at town, the rounds disapear before they fall off, and where they are suppossed to hit, they do no damage,
i use the wirble alot, and i do not know if it is modeled correctly, because i was not a german anti aircraft gunner durring ww2,, i also am pretty sure that there would still be lead flying after you have lost sight of the rounds, I.E. 50 cal rounds would impact bombers and or fighters at more than 1K., it would just take more windage, to get hits and there effectiveness would fall off more as velocity was reduced!
these things are not modeled in the game! so the wirble may be incorrect, as well as most all the guns in the game, verses real life, be thankfull that the wirble rounds cease to exist at 1.5K
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i have not tested the "exact" range on buildings in game yet but i will! i do know that when firing at town, the rounds disapear before they fall off, and where they are suppossed to hit, they do no damage,
i use the wirble alot, and i do not know if it is modeled correctly, because i was not a german anti aircraft gunner durring ww2,, i also am pretty sure that there would still be lead flying after you have lost sight of the rounds, I.E. 50 cal rounds would impact bombers and or fighters at more than 1K., it would just take more windage, to get hits and there effectiveness would fall off more as velocity was reduced!
these things are not modeled in the game! so the wirble may be incorrect, as well as most all the guns in the game, verses real life, be thankfull that the wirble rounds cease to exist at 1.5K
The golden bb in rl did exist i'll give you that. Now think how hard it is to hit a stationary target at 1.5k , bench rested with a scope. Now try hitting a moving target at 1.5 with open sights. I wont even get into you and the target are moving.
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The traverse is definitely not to actual specs, so I would say it needs to be addressed. If I remember correctly it could fire 2 guns only, or all four guns at once so clips and limited firing are really not an issue. I would support the lower ENY (10-15 range), but only if the traverse and ROF is left as is. If the Wirbel's traverse & ROF are edited then there would be no need to change the ENY.
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alright :furious how many pilots landed 13 kills in "real" fighting, in one sortie? :O
why would you be flying below 1,5 k, with 13 kills? :cry
Thanks for pointing out realism, but I'm talking about a different kind of realism. Not the Side realism, the 13 kills realism, but the model realism. Yeah, a Mossie can't have 13 kills in real sortie (well, Maybe). But did a Lancaster dive from 6K to carpet bomb a CV? Did B24s and B17s carpet bomb GVs in the war? No. I'm not talking about real life flying, but the flight model itself. The Shermans turret got fixed, for added realism, so why can't we fix a couple minor problems on the Wirble, for added realism
I was flying that low because the fight was OTD.
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Rich46yo/Bombrich,
My ingame in MstWntd. I'd be happy to show you how I fly the Mossie normally, so feel free to ride shotgun with me when you see me.
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Thanks for pointing out realism, but I'm talking about a different kind of realism. Not the Side realism, the 13 kills realism, but the model realism. Yeah, a Mossie can't have 13 kills in real sortie (well, Maybe). But did a Lancaster dive from 6K to carpet bomb a CV? Did B24s and B17s carpet bomb GVs in the war? No. I'm not talking about real life flying, but the flight model itself. The Shermans turret got fixed, for added realism, so why can't we fix a couple minor problems on the Wirble, for added realism
Well, lets not stop there with the WW, why not fix the IL2 and its acrobatic maneuvers, that plane could never do the things I have seen it do in this game, realism is a compromise of reality and make believe and not an uncanny ability to create advantages due to poor skill or lack thereof. :aok
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Well, lets not stop there with the WW, why not fix the IL2 and its acrobatic maneuvers, that plane could never do the things I have seen it do in this game, realism is a compromise of reality and make believe and not an uncanny ability to create advantages due to poor skill or lack thereof. :aok
Do as you wish, one step at a time to make the gameplay better for all.
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Do as you wish, one step at a time to make the gameplay better for all.
As for our discussion, If a change is made, a change must be made to its adversary also to make the gameplay better for all.
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Well, lets not stop there with the WW, why not fix the IL2 and its acrobatic maneuvers, that plane could never do the things I have seen it do in this game, realism is a compromise of reality and make believe and not an uncanny ability to create advantages due to poor skill or lack thereof. :aok
What a pilot would do IRL and what the plane could do are 2 separate things. Also what a rl pilot fearing for his life and we in our cartoon game who do not... are also 2 different things.
If you have some documentation on the the IL-2 contrary to its performance in game...... do share.
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And you sound like the cop who doesn't like being told hes wrong. Like I said before get used to it. :bird
ps dickie boie Spikes never mentioned perk. So shove that where it will do you the most good. :aok
Actually Im a cop that just doesnt like you. So its entirely personal between me and you.
But I'm also a swell guy. I got an idea? Lets be Pals, c'mere and gives us a man hug. Gaaaaa,gaaaa,gaaaa.
Rich46yo/Bombrich,
My ingame in MstWntd. I'd be happy to show you how I fly the Mossie normally, so feel free to ride shotgun with me when you see me.
Nope, no need my young friend. I knew you were over-reaching and sincerely doubt you got 30 of those kills in two flights. Or even 14 of them. Its a great airplane so have fun with it, and its not like any of our 8lb fishes never became 10lb'rs, "or in Bronks case a 4 incher became an 8 incher". Either way you dramatized your Mossie adventure, tho it doesn't really matter.
I'll say this tho. If anything tanks are even more gamey then WWs but nobody is calling for them to be porked. How come?
My guess is your average fighter plane driver has had it to easy in this game for to long. Now all of a sudden its dangerous to go low for an easy kill, or outright vulch. In the past M-16s, while effective, were mostly only so in HOs. They didnt hit with authority on crossing shots and were themselves easy to kill. And now we have WWs along with Bi-weekly calls for it to be perked or porked to make vulching safer, the way it used to be.
I dont need to tag along in your cartoon Mossie Spike. Ive seen enough of them and if you are flying them low and surviving then you are doing a lot of vulching in them. Mossies, down low, with against even a 50%/50% fighter equation, dont last to long. In the future watch for WWs more when vulching and dont start threads accompanied by fantasy stories and then be expected to be taken seriously. In a few days somebody else will get shot down vulching by a WW, with kills to land, and we'll be back here having the same argument.
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What a pilot would do IRL and what the plane could do are 2 separate things. Also what a rl pilot fearing for his life and we in our cartoon game who do not... are also 2 different things.
If you have some documentation on the the IL-2 contrary to its performance in game...... do share.
Just some quick research on the characteristics, this quote was found:
"Governmental trials proved flight capabilities of IL-2 with ShFK-37, in comparison with the basic single-spaced IL-2 with ShVAK or Vya cannons, was significantly worse. The aircraft became more inert and more difficult to fly, especially during veering or turning maneuvers at lower altitudes. Maneuvering also became very difficult at high speeds. Pilots complained about the heavy stress of steering during maneuvers. "
In game modeling has them turning on a dime and having the capability to conduct acrobatic maneuvers which does not accurately reflect the true flight characteristics. You can find more easily on the web.
In a few days somebody else will get shot down vulching by a WW, with kills to land, and we'll be back here having the same argument.
What would happen to this game if nobody stood up and put a foot down on this rhetorical crap.... :aok
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Just some quick research on the characteristics, this quote was found:
"Governmental trials proved flight capabilities of IL-2 with ShFK-37, in comparison with the basic single-spaced IL-2 with ShVAK or Vya cannons, was significantly worse. The aircraft became more inert and more difficult to fly, especially during veering or turning maneuvers at lower altitudes. Maneuvering also became very difficult at high speeds. Pilots complained about the heavy stress of steering during maneuvers. "
In game modeling has them turning on a dime and having the capability to conduct acrobatic maneuvers which does not accurately reflect the true flight characteristics. You can find more easily on the web.
Pilot fatigue (aka stress of steering) is not modeled into any AC. Unless they are referring to stress on the AC, but it appears not to be worded that way.
Ohh and dickie boi... step back with the bro mance.. you're not my type.
Edit: Dads HTC needs hard data not pilot accounts. That's the only way I've seen changes in the flight model. See when the 109s had there flap deployment speed changed for an example.
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Nope, no need my young friend. I knew you were over-reaching and sincerely doubt you got 30 of those kills in two flights. Or even 14 of them. Its a great airplane so have fun with it, and its not like any of our 8lb fishes never became 10lb'rs, "or in Bronks case a 4 incher became an 8 incher". Either way you dramatized your Mossie adventure, tho it doesn't really matter.
I'll say this tho. If anything tanks are even more gamey then WWs but nobody is calling for them to be porked. How come?
My guess is your average fighter plane driver has had it to easy in this game for to long. Now all of a sudden its dangerous to go low for an easy kill, or outright vulch. In the past M-16s, while effective, were mostly only so in HOs. They didnt hit with authority on crossing shots and were themselves easy to kill. And now we have WWs along with Bi-weekly calls for it to be perked or porked to make vulching safer, the way it used to be.
I dont need to tag along in your cartoon Mossie Spike. Ive seen enough of them and if you are flying them low and surviving then you are doing a lot of vulching in them. Mossies, down low, with against even a 50%/50% fighter equation, dont last to long. In the future watch for WWs more when vulching and dont start threads accompanied by fantasy stories and then be expected to be taken seriously. In a few days somebody else will get shot down vulching by a WW, with kills to land, and we'll be back here having the same argument.
I think someone just doesn't want to get proved wrong. I landed a 14 kill sortie after I died with 13, so I think 17 is possible, dontcha think?
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And you say this like HTC does not try to make it real. If he did not try you'd see lancs doing barrel rolls like a F14 could do.
I just spit out my coffee all over my monitor... :lol
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Pilot fatigue (aka stress of steering) is not modeled into any AC. Unless they are referring to stress on the AC, but it appears not to be worded that way.
On the contrary, it is worded that way.... says nothing about Pilot Fatigue, its under flight characteristics. But nice try.
EDIT:
If HTC needs DATA, they can go to Russia and get it. I am just pointing out the results of tests that were conducted.
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On the contrary, it is worded that way.... says nothing about Pilot Fatigue, its under flight characteristics. But nice try.
Do impart to the durability of the airframe , I do not think the airframe was over stressed by hanging bigger guns off it. It would however take more pilot input to maintain the same maneuverability as it's smaller gunned sibling. More pilot stress?
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
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First, I complately agree with correcting the Wirby. The fact that there were only 100 ever built (or so hear) and they dominate the AA game is a bit confusing in itself. There is nothing stopping them from being deployed. If HTC were to apply the same sort of logic to their gv scoring as they do to their aircraft, it would be... well... nevermind. It would still be goofed up. ;)
The wirby currently fires as if all 3200 rounds are linked via a belt fed mechanism. I'm not sure how they would incorperate a dealy in firing unless they were able to mimic the delay in how a tank fires but yet allow for a string of 40 rounds (the wirby has 4/10 round magazines, yes?) to be fired without delay.
The other thing that gets me is that it seems as if the Wirby can take a lot more damage to its hull vs a Pzr before being destroyed. Odd.
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Do impart to the durability of the airframe , I do not think the airframe was over stressed by hanging bigger guns off it. It would however take more pilot input to maintain the same maneuverability as it's smaller gunned sibling. More pilot stress?
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
You may fail to agree, any stress to the pilot is the result of flight characterstics and not the pilot.
"The large size of the ShFK-37 cannons and their magazine feeds (capacity 40 rounds) determined their placement into aerodynamic pods under the wings of the IL-2. Because of the large magazine housing on the cannon, it was needed to significantly lower the construction features of the wing (the aircraft's axes).This not only made the cannon housing construction difficult (the cannon was attached to a shock-absorber; during firing it moved together with the magazine) but also required the making of large aerodynamic pods. The mass of the cannon and its components equaled 302.5 kg. Besides the cannons and MG's, the Shturmovik also carried 8 rocket platforms RS-82. Bombs were also carried but only to a maximum capacity of 200 kg. "
They utilized a shock absorber in the cannon pods to help with the shock to the wings, surely some ingenuity involved just to get this thing to fly.
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I think someone just doesn't want to get proved wrong. I landed a 14 kill sortie after I died with 13, so I think 17 is possible, dontcha think?
So yesterday you got killed by a WW with 13, got killed by your server with 17, and then also landed a 14?
Kid you are a God of cartoon Mossie pilots.
The other thing that gets me is that it seems as if the Wirby can take a lot more damage to its hull vs a Pzr before being destroyed. Odd.
Ive noticed no difference. Not from tanks or IL2s. Most of the time 1 hit from a tank is enough just like "most of the time" one well placed 37mm volley from an IL2 is enough.
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They utilized a shock absorber in the cannon pods to help with the shock to the wings, surely some ingenuity involved just to get this thing to fly.
Shocks were used to help alleviate stress on the air frame when firing. I fail to see how they needed them to get it to "fly". BTW the nose still gets pushed around noticeably if you fire more than a short burst.
Edit: I imagine Pilots might have been warned "NOT" to fire under heavy G load as it might cause a stability issue.
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So yesterday you got killed by a WW with 13, got killed by your server with 17, and then also landed a 14?
Kid you are a God of cartoon Mossie pilots.
Far from it. It's not that hard with 4 laser 20mms in the nose. ;)
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Ive noticed no difference. Not from tanks or IL2s. Most of the time 1 hit from a tank is enough just like "most of the time" one well placed 37mm volley from an IL2 is enough.
Got to agree with you on this one. Once turreted easy kills.
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WW shouldn't be perked, learn tactics to take it down. Only takes a few pings from anything over .50 calibre round to deturret a WW/Ost.
Come in directly 90 Degrees about 5-6k over the tank and 1-2 seconds of fire from a P47 will turret a wirb. Climb out, rinse, repeat. You might get caught once or twice but a wirb is so easy to turret. All you have to do is set up a proper attack and fire at the top of it.
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Shocks were used to help alleviate stress on the air frame when firing. I fail to see how they needed them to get it to "fly". BTW the nose still gets pushed around noticeably if you fire more than a short burst.
I was refering to the added weight to an aircraft that already had poor flight characteristics, which by adding the cannon pods made it even worse as pointed out below.
On a side note, I found this about the wirble..... http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_wirbelwind.html Notice the range at which it fired
Here is some more about the ROF for the WW http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/flak-panzers/wirbelwind.asp
So if you increased the range and slowed the traverse, you would have a more historically correct vehicle.
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WW shouldn't be perked, learn tactics to take it down. Only takes a few pings from anything over .50 calibre round to deturret a WW/Ost.
Come in directly 90 Degrees about 5-6k over the tank and 1-2 seconds of fire from a P47 will turret a wirb. Climb out, rinse, repeat. You might get caught once or twice but a wirb is so easy to turret. All you have to do is set up a proper attack and fire at the top of it.
My convergence on .50s is at 300. Where do i aim from 5-6k in order to turret the wirbletard?
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NOT a perk thread, please leave perking it, out of here.
WW shouldn't be perked, learn tactics to take it down. Only takes a few pings from anything over .50 calibre round to deturret a WW/Ost.
Come in directly 90 Degrees about 5-6k over the tank and 1-2 seconds of fire from a P47 will turret a wirb. Climb out, rinse, repeat. You might get caught once or twice but a wirb is so easy to turret. All you have to do is set up a proper attack and fire at the top of it.
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WW shouldn't be perked, learn tactics to take it down. Only takes a few pings from anything over .50 calibre round to deturret a WW/Ost.
Sigh OP asked to have it model adjusted to be more like its RL counterpart. Try reading the OP again.
Come in directly 90 Degrees about 5-6k over the tank and 1-2 seconds of fire from a P47 will turret a wirb. Climb out, rinse, repeat. You might get caught once or twice but a wirb is so easy to turret. All you have to do is set up a proper attack and fire at the top of it.
No kidding really. But it's ability to swing those guns around and fire in quad mode without end... need to be addressed. The turret was in fact hand cranked turned and was clip fed.
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I was refering to the added weight to an aircraft that already had poor flight characteristics, which by adding the cannon pods made it even worse as pointed out below.
You have yet to provide any documentation on that. As I said HT doesn't use pilot recollection he uses hard data. Argue with him if you like.
As to your ww adjustments you forgot about being clip fed. 2 gun continuous np quad needs adjustment.
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Summary of Thread:
Mr. Evidence: "We have evidence that the wirbelwind's model has some inaccuracies, namely turret traverse speed, and firing duration."
Peanut Gallery: "Stop whining! You suck! If you're getting killed by wirbelwinds you don't know what you're doing."
Mr. Evidence: "Excuse me, I'm not talking about killing or being killed by wirbelwinds. I'm talking about the accuracy of how they're modeled in the game."
Peanut Gallery: "Pathetic whiners like you are always saying perk this! Perk that! Learn some tactics before you come here to complain."
Mr. Evidence: "Do you speak English?"
Peanut Gallery: "Stop whining!"
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Thanks for pointing out realism, but I'm talking about a different kind of realism. Not the Side realism, the 13 kills realism, but the model realism. Yeah, a Mossie can't have 13 kills in real sortie (well, Maybe). But did a Lancaster dive from 6K to carpet bomb a CV? Did B24s and B17s carpet bomb GVs in the war? No. I'm not talking about real life flying, but the flight model itself. The Shermans turret got fixed, for added realism, so why can't we fix a couple minor problems on the Wirble, for added realism
I was flying that low because the fight was OTD.
the golden BB that shot you down is probably the most realistic part of this game :aok
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gavagai
Check PM for a chuckle. :D
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the golden BB that shot you down is probably the most realistic part of this game :aok
Would that be the one fired from a gun that was firing non stop, that should have had to pause to reload and was 2 seconds earlier pointing 180 away?
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You have yet to provide any documentation on that. As I said HT doesn't use pilot recollection he uses hard data. Argue with him if you like.
As to your ww adjustments you forgot about being clip fed. 2 gun continuous np quad needs adjustment.
I dont have to prove anything. But I did find what has been presented and it wasnt from a pilot, as from what I read it stated "Govermental Trials" which would implicate testing from another entity. The argument isnt with HT, its with you and your disbelief.
I could not find further information about ROF, I am sure its out there somewhere, but at the low end of 480 RPM that is still alot of lead coming out, does not matter how the gun is loaded, the ROF is the rate at which rounds are coming out of the barrel and not how they are loaded.
Guns in the past that are manually loaded had open feed trays where clipped rounds were dropped into a slot stacked on top of each other and were filled as they were depleted, most AA guns were set up this way for rapid fire and rounds were rapidly fed into this rack to maintain ROF.
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Would that be the one fired from a gun that was firing non stop, that should have had to pause to reload and was 2 seconds earlier pointing 180 away?
Sums it up well.
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I dont have to prove anything. But I did find what has been presented and it wasnt from a pilot, as from what I read it stated "Govermental Trials" which would implicate testing from another entity. The argument isnt with HT, its with you and your disbelief.
I have no problem with the FM. I in effect agree with HT, you don't . Again take it up with him. :aok
I could not find further information about ROF, I am sure its out there somewhere, but at the low end of 480 RPM that is still alot of lead coming out, does not matter how the gun is loaded, the ROF is the rate at which rounds are coming out of the barrel and not how they are loaded.
Guns in the past that are manually loaded had open feed trays where clipped rounds were dropped into a slot stacked on top of each other and were filled as they were depleted, most AA guns were set up this way for rapid fire and rounds were rapidly fed into this rack to maintain ROF.
It has been stated by lusche and IIRC he has some documentation that states quad fire can not be maintained continuously. However 2 guns can.
I know you have a hard time believing any thing I say. Would you say lusche has some agenda also?
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Sorry bronk and spikes, didn't mean to say perking it. Meant to say something else. Apologies guys as i did read the OP title clearly. :o
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It has been stated by lusche and IIRC he has some documentation that states quad fire can not be maintained continuously. However 2 guns can.
Again, this depends on the feed tray and how its loaded. Does not matter how many guns there are. ROF is a constant.
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Sorry bronk and spikes, didn't mean to say perking it. Meant to say something else. Apologies guys as i did read the OP title clearly. :o
NP do it all the time myself. <S>
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I've turreted an Ostie with (IIRC) the single 30cal on top of the M4 Firefly. I'm not sure if that was the specific gun, but it was definitely with a pintle gun. From the same ground level as the Ostie. So the WW ought to be easier everything else being equal - the "true" hit sprites I got were at the 37mm notch in the turret armor. In my experience that's how it is. A handful of bullets landed inside the turret anywhere within 45deg of vertical guarantees the turret is disabled.
And now the mandatory off topic but semi interesting post..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz
And yep, the WW double/quad firing mechanisms were pointed out in a thread before the WW was released. So HTC probably is aware and chose to model it as is for some reason. The turret movement speed was pointed out not long after release.
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Again, this depends on the feed tray and how its loaded. Does not matter how many guns there are. ROF is a constant.
Yes but the ROF between 2 guns continuous and 4 guns that need a reload time are very different.
Again going by lusche's statement continuous quad fire was not possible.
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My convergence on .50s is at 300. Where do i aim from 5-6k in order to turret the wirbletard?
conv. 400 yds. All guns, Shoot at 1k out, if you're coming ni at 90 Degree angle the Wirbs turret ( depending on directional facing ) will be hard pressed to aim directly over its head and shoot you, thus giving you the optimal target angel to safely de-turret a wirb.
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Yes but the ROF between 2 guns continuous and 4 guns that need a reload time are very different.
Again going by lusche's statement continuous quad fire was not possible.
Yes it is possible. Search the answer and you will find.
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Yes it is possible. Search the answer and you will find.
So you're saying lusche is spreading disinformation?
I want to be clear on this.
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So you're saying lusche is spreading disinformation?
I want to be clear on this.
Looks like you are..... :)
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Looks like you are..... :)
Do you know the difference between a question and a statement?
Answer the question pls. Because I find that Lusche has no motive to mislead anyone.
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Would that be the one fired from a gun that was firing non stop, that should have had to pause to reload and was 2 seconds earlier pointing 180 away?
probably :aok reminds me of air america, when they are flying over the feilds and the lone guy get's out his single shot carbine and leads way out , one shot, engine smoked !
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Do you know the difference between a question and a statement?
Answer the question pls. Because I find that Lusche has no motive to mislead anyone.
Your not asking a question, your trying to put words in my mouth. :noid
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Your not asking a question, your trying to put words in my mouth. :noid
Yes or no will suffice. Is lusche spreading disinformation?
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Again, this depends on the feed tray and how its loaded. Does not matter how many guns there are. ROF is a constant.
The Flakvierling 38 has no feed tray. It's magazine fed. Once the 20-round magazine is empty, it's removed and a new one is inserted. As a single barrel fired at 480 rounds/minute, the magazine was empty after 2.5 seconds of continous fire. One loader had to reload 2 barrels each. So firing all four barrels at once (by pushing down both both pedals) meant a short stop after 2.5 seconds, during which the gunners had to insert two new magazines. Only then the gunner could continue firing.
If the gunner chose to fire only two barrels at once, the loaders were able to reaload the one currently not firing. Only that way continous sutained fire was possible.
And that's why you can read "practical rate of fire: 800 rnds/minute" in most data sheets. That's the constant ROF. The 1800 rounds/minute is the theoretical maximum ROF which can't be sustained.
Our AH2 Wirbel is shooting at a continous ROF of 1800 rds/min.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J08339%2C_Ausbildung_an_der_Vierlings-Flak.jpg/797px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J08339%2C_Ausbildung_an_der_Vierlings-Flak.jpg)
That's the same gun the Wirbelwind is using. See the magazines.
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ZOMG teh pwn.
(http://nguyenhai.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/pwn3d.jpg)
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That must have been a crappy job, reloading those huge guns while they're going off right next to your face, the turret is traversing and aircraft are flying at you.
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Shoveling away poop faster than it's thrown it at you is what life's all about.
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The Flakvierling 38 has no feed tray. It's magazine fed. Once the 20-round magazine is empty, it's removed and a new one is inserted. As a single barrel fired at 480 rounds/minute, the magazine was empty after 2.5 seconds of continous fire. One loader had to reload 2 barrels each. So firing all four barrels at once (by pushing down both both pedals) meant a short stop after 2.5 seconds, during which the gunners had to insert two new magazines. Only then the gunner could continue firing.
If the gunner chose to fire only two barrels at once, the loaders were able to reaload the one currently not firing. Only that way continous sutained fire was possible.
And that's why you can read "practical rate of fire: 800 rnds/minute" in most data sheets. That's the constant ROF. The 1800 rounds/minute is the theoretical maximum ROF which can't be sustained.
Our AH2 Wirbel is shooting at a continous ROF of 1800 rds/min.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J08339%2C_Ausbildung_an_der_Vierlings-Flak.jpg/797px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J08339%2C_Ausbildung_an_der_Vierlings-Flak.jpg)
That's the same gun the Wirbelwind is using. See the magazines.
Please excuse my slowness on the uptake. What is the actual as real as it gets rof per minute for 2 and or 4 guns firing as it should be modeled? Is it somewhere between 800 & 1800 RPM? Your info is appreciated!
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480 RPM=ROF for one gun
800 RPM= 'Constant' ROF with two guns firing while the other to are reloaded
1800 RPM= Unsustainable ROF with all 4 guns firing.
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Please excuse my slowness on the uptake. What is the actual as real as it gets rof per minute for 2 and or 4 guns firing as it should be modeled? Is it somewhere between 800 & 1800 RPM? Your info is appreciated!
800 rpm.
However, I am aware that this will probably not being modeled (="fixed") in the near future for several reasons. One of them: in some ways it would open a can of worms, as undoubtly players would then rightfully claim all magazine fed weapons should get restricted in a similar way (For example the 20mm MG/FF in the BF 110C!)
Adjusting the turret rotation speed would be much simpler to do ;)
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However, I am aware that this will probably not being modeled (="fixed") in the near future for several reasons. One of them: in some ways it would open a can of worms, as undoubtly players would then rightfully claim all magazine fed weapons should get restricted in a similar way (For example the 20mm MG/FF in the BF 110C!)
Well now, that's interesting... How can you reload a nose mounted cannon in an aircraft? :confused:
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800 rpm.
However, I am aware that this will probably not being modeled (="fixed") in the near future for several reasons. One of them: in some ways it would open a can of worms, as undoubtly players would then rightfully claim all magazine fed weapons should get restricted in a similar way (For example the 20mm MG/FF in the BF 110C!)
Adjusting the turret rotation speed would be much simpler to do ;)
I don't think once the code is written it would be bad to implement to all clip fed weapons. If that is how it is suppose to be.
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Thank you Motherland & Lusche.
<Salute>
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I don't think once the code is written it would be bad to implement to all clip fed weapons. If that is how it is suppose to be.
And if that's how it operated IRL, then that's how it SHOULD be modeled. Clip-fed weapons should act like clip-fed weapons.
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Ammo counters, etc.
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The Flakvierling 38 has no feed tray. It's magazine fed. Once the 20-round magazine is empty, it's removed and a new one is inserted. As a single barrel fired at 480 rounds/minute, the magazine was empty after 2.5 seconds of continous fire. One loader had to reload 2 barrels each. So firing all four barrels at once (by pushing down both both pedals) meant a short stop after 2.5 seconds, during which the gunners had to insert two new magazines. Only then the gunner could continue firing.
If the gunner chose to fire only two barrels at once, the loaders were able to reaload the one currently not firing. Only that way continous sutained fire was possible.
And that's why you can read "practical rate of fire: 800 rnds/minute" in most data sheets. That's the constant ROF. The 1800 rounds/minute is the theoretical maximum ROF which can't be sustained.
Our AH2 Wirbel is shooting at a continous ROF of 1800 rds/min.
I did say 480 rpm earlier in the this post, of course this can fluctuate depending on loader variants and speed. Your picture shows a larger crew than what would have been available in the ww which surely would slow down the loading speed with a two man mag crew vice a 4 man.
Bronk, another epic attempt to sink the hook....
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I did say 480 rpm earlier in the this post, of course this can fluctuate depending on loader variants and speed. Your picture shows a larger crew than what would have been available in the ww which surely would slow down the loading speed with a two man mag crew vice a 4 man.
Great... longer reload times between quad firing. :aok
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Great... longer reload times between quad firing. :aok
Im for it, as long as they increase the range respectively.
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I'll say this tho. If anything tanks are even more gamey then WWs but nobody is calling for them to be porked. How come?
Once again asking for accuracy is not asking for something to be porked.
The thing that really gets me is the comments I've seen on just perking it, or dropping the ENY and leaving it as as. By using that logic maybe we should be able to buy extra speed and turning performance in the hangar before we take up a plane?
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Ammo counters, etc.
If the plane didn't have it get rid of them, too.
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Not about perking it, not about ammo counters.
-Lower ENY (?)
-Lower turret traverse speed (People have shown this to be the most valid change needed, it should be done.)
-Disallow continuous fire of all 4 guns (It could not fire all 4 at the same time and keep a constant rate of fire, period.)
-incorporate 20 round clips (Probably not doable.)
It should be this simple people. :rock
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Not about perking it, not about ammo counters.
-Lower ENY (?)
-Lower turret traverse speed (People have shown this to be the most valid change needed, it should be done.)
-Disallow continuous fire of all 4 guns (It could not fire all 4 at the same time and keep a constant rate of fire, period.)
-incorporate 20 round clips (Probably not doable.)
It should be this simple people. :rock
Gawd, at least a few people are on terms with me. What if the 20 round clip consisted of a 1 or 2 second pause every 20 rounds?
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-Lower ENY (?)
-Lower turret traverse speed (People have shown this to be the most valid change needed, it should be done.)
-Disallow continuous fire of all 4 guns (It could not fire all 4 at the same time and keep a constant rate of fire, period.)
-incorporate 20 round clips (Probably not doable.)
-Increase Maximum Effective Range (doable)
:aok
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OMG, would you guys quit cryin already!!!
Their gunfire is easy to dodge, and their turrets are
fragile, and a 250lb bomb can kill them...
Geez, what do ya want...
GVs to be sittin ducks for any fighter again? Right???
God forbid ya fly close to the ground and a flak kills ya...
OMG, that NEVER happened in reality, huh???
WWWaaaahhhhh Booooooo!!!!
I will tower you a minimum of 3 times out of 5.
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Unlike the Ostie you can bomb a WIRB easily without ever getting into his range.
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Ever think about this? The wirble would be almost useless if bombers would fly at a higher alt and fighters stop dive bombing. I don't think it's a solution but if you think about it it's true.
When dive bombing wirbels with the A20 I have already released my bomb and pulling out of dive BEFORE I see the icon. Sometimes I get hit but rarely hard enough to put me down.
Anyway the smart vulchers start to RTB a few min's after the VH stops smoking.
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stroker - VH was dead, Rooks couldn't kill a couple Flaks.
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I will tower you a minimum of 3 times out of 5.
Could very well be so...
I run about 50/50 average...
Sometimes I rack'em up like tenpins, and
other times I'm swatted like a fly, LOL!!!
I like the matchup tho.. Kinda like the
Old west 6gun showdown at high noon...
What I really hate tho, are the tower
weenies!!! That park on pavement, so
they get a free shot at ya, MISS, then
tower, to avoid the bombs fallin on em...
Like a child, afraid to take their medicine..
If the Wirby is castrated, it'll get alot
easier tho.. See ya round, crater bait.. ;)
:salute Mash
RC
PS. Y'all know who you are... weenies!!!
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Well now, that's interesting... How can you reload a nose mounted cannon in an aircraft? :confused:
The rounds exit the nose, but the guns lie flat inside the rear cockpit. I thought these particular guns were modified to be belt fed, however. Schrage Muzik guns were drum-fed, but I don't recall ever seeing the belly guns with drums on them, ever.
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Let the cannons over-heat or something maybe. I don't know about the 20 rnd clip deal. Even though, I get shot down a lot with them, I like them. I guess I have the choice whether or not to put myself into the position as to where one may ruin my day.
There's another side to that coin too. That WW might have launched from another base, and spawn point. Then he has to drive all that way to shoot you down, if he can. Might have be about 15-20 miles, but it's still a good hike. Then some knuckle head sees him, and decides to rtb and grab an A-20 or an IL, is that fair.
Take the good with bad man, and play the game.
Coogan
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2.5 seconds for a full clip, assume all 4 barrels are loaded when I climb into the gunners seat.
Most of my bursts are probably under half a second. Bombers low and slow I may run a bit longer, but not much.
So thats going to be 4 or 5 birds shot down before I need a 10-20 second pause to reload.
Cool, bring it ON!
I'd like to see ammo state for each barrel, so you can decide when to hold em and when to let em rip.
It would also be nice to have a choice. Separate fire keys for each pair, or some other way of deciding when its time to leave a pair loaded in reserve. And a Reload all button, that would reload everything leaving you setup for the next wave.
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2.5 seconds for a full clip, assume all 4 barrels are loaded when I climb into the gunners seat.
Most of my bursts are probably under half a second. Bombers low and slow I may run a bit longer, but not much.
So thats going to be 4 or 5 birds shot down before I need a 10-20 second pause to reload.
Cool, bring it ON!
I'd like to see ammo state for each barrel, so you can decide when to hold em and when to let em rip.
It would also be nice to have a choice. Separate fire keys for each pair, or some other way of deciding when its time to leave a pair loaded in reserve. And a Reload all button, that would reload everything leaving you setup for the next wave.
Ghost I think you already can fire 2 or 4. Primary, secondary , or fire all.
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NOT a perk thread, please leave perking it, out of here.
-Lower ENY
-Lower turret traverse speed
-Disallow continuous fire of all 4 guns
-incorporate 20 round clips
Any one of these please?
:aok
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Well I just spent another night getting shot to pieces by these things. Your right, they are to uber as they are now. I'm done defending them.
It wasnt "them" I was defending as much as it was the right of defenders to have capable flak to prevent vulching. As it is however, and as long as they have some supplies, these things are non-stop shooters. It is somewhat skewed in their favor.
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Well I just spent another night getting shot to pieces by these things. Your right, they are to uber as they are now. I'm done defending them.
Part of me sees sarcasm in this post, am I wrong?
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Well now, that's interesting... How can you reload a nose mounted cannon in an aircraft? :confused:
Krusty already mentioned it: the MG/FF where located such that the radio operator was able to change the drums through an opening on the cockpit floor. 180 RPG in AH means the 110C is using three standard 60 round drums.
As far as I know the MG/FF never utilized any belts, only drums (45, 60 or 100 rounds) and box magazines (15 rounds)
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Part of me sees sarcasm in this post, am I wrong?
Nope. I have an open mind. Comments by some well respected players made me rethink the entire thing. Changing the load sequence is not an unreasonable request. Nor is lowering the eny. It wont affect me cause I short burst when in them anyways and never shoot until 1,000 or closer. I'm not sure how much affect it will have in the game.
Lowering the eny will make tank drivers target them faster. As it is the WW cant hurt them, while enemy tanks can, and they make more perkies killing low eny tanks. I dont blame the tank gunners but to many WWs run around with no friendly armor touching them.
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so lots of things in AH don't work the way there supposed to , still most have fun with the game,
why upset the apple cart over a few dropped oranges, adapt , overcome, deal with it, most of the rest of us do!!! :noid
Jesus, you would think that the players get to decide how the game should work,
none of us that play today were ever in WW2 so we have no frame of reference!!!
i bet the HTC group work long hours to try to make things as close to fair as they can, still i see very little appreciation for what they do on your 15 dollars a month, i guess you just can't please everyone so you might as well please yourself :noid :noid :noid
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It's always good to see someone open to changing their mind based on new experiences. :salute
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I prefer the Ostwind anyway. (http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/costumed-smiley-011.gif)
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I prefer the Ostwind anyway. (http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/costumed-smiley-011.gif)
The Ostwind's turret is also rotating too fast, same issue as with the WW. If the Wirbelwinds traverse rate would be corrected, the Ostwind should get it adjusted too. ;)
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so lots of things in AH don't work the way there supposed to , still most have fun with the game,
why upset the apple cart over a few dropped oranges, adapt , overcome, deal with it, most of the rest of us do!!! :noid
Jesus, you would think that the players get to decide how the game should work,
none of us that play today were ever in WW2 so we have no frame of reference!!!
i bet the HTC group work long hours to try to make things as close to fair as they can, still i see very little appreciation for what they do on your 15 dollars a month, i guess you just can't please everyone so you might as well please yourself :noid :noid :noid
The game works fine. A piece of it is mis-modeled. We do not need to have been in ww2 to point out a flaw in equipment that has documentation. We just need the ability to read, ty lusche. I'm sure the traverse speed is simple to adjust... substitute one number for another.
Question how would you feel if the B-25 was mis-modeled and fired AP instead of HE and had 1 second reload time? Think about being one-shoted 2k out in a tiger. Instead of the crazy close dive you have to do now.
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Question how would you feel if the B-25 was mis-modeled and fired AP instead of HE and had 1 second reload time? Think about being one-shoted 2k out in a tiger. Instead of the crazy close dive you have to do now.
FYI: B-25Hs DID receive AP rounds. Typically a load of 5 rounds AP + 16 HE.
Someone posted the docs on it on a thread in one of the other boards.
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Was on last night, huntin gvs as usual..
But because of this thread, was lookin for
2fers.. Or the hattrick...
You know, killin 2 or 3 in one divebomb pass..
Got a few 2fers, missed a hattrick tho...
Osti got me... bummer man!!!
Was listening to AC/DC while playin the game..
Singin along, but corrupting the lyrics...
Kinda like this...
I'm goin IN, to wirb city...
Im gonna WIN, in wirb citay...
Where the hangars burn bright...
Tower your wirbAZZ tonight...
I'm goin in, to wirb citayayay..
So I'll spin my wheel...
Dodge that flak
And roll my 500lb dice...
Deny all your perkies girls..
And put your wirbies on ICE!!!
I'm goin in, to wirb CITAY
Let me burn your baby down...
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Life is gonna get ALOT tougher for GVs...
But it OK with me!!!
Bomb ya later guys
:salute RC
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The game works fine. A piece of it is mis-modeled. We do not need to have been in WW2 to point out a flaw in equipment that has documentation. We just need the ability to read, ty lusche. I'm sure the traverse speed is simple to adjust... substitute one number for another.
Question how would you feel if the B-25 was mis-modeled and fired AP instead of HE and had 1 second reload time? Think about being one-shoted 2k out in a tiger. Instead of the crazy close dive you have to do now.
i get ticked off all the time when the IL 2 's show up!!! the b-25's not so much,
but i have learned to keep them from behind me, i have learned how to overcome there blatant over powering ability to kill my tigers, and i didn't have to come here and ask someone to fix it for me, i just figured it out, sounds to me like you got all excited after 13 kills and lost your S.A. HTC cannot help you with that!!!
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i get ticked off all the time when the IL 2 's show up!!! the b-25's not so much,
but i have learned to keep them from behind me, i have learned how to overcome there blatant over powering ability to kill my tigers, and i didn't have to come here and ask someone to fix it for me, i just figured it out, sounds to me like you got all excited after 13 kills and lost your S.A. HTC cannot help you with that!!!
Yes, but the IL2 is actually modeled correct, the Wirble is not.
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Yes, but the IL2 is actually modeled correct, the Wirble is not.
I'm not 100% sure about the Il2.. but I can't prove anything, so I don't request a "fix" ;)
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I'm not 100% sure about the Il2.. but I can't prove anything, so I don't request a "fix" ;)
:noid Got something ya wanna share lusche :D?
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I'm not 100% sure about the Il2.. but I can't prove anything, so I don't request a "fix" ;)
Indeed. I'm willing to bet the IL2 is better modeled than the Wirble at this point, though. :)
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:noid Got something ya wanna share lusche :D?
For example I have an account that the 37mm guns were not synconized, so that the plane did massively oszillate around the yaw axis, making shooting more than a 1-2 round burst a waste of ammo. But I do not know if that was only the case with the first prototype or of all planes suffered from it. No sufficient data yet to even request a change.
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Here is an article with supporting documents listed on Lusche's thoughts about IL-2...
http://www.battlefield.ru/content/view/239/123/lang,en/ (http://www.battlefield.ru/content/view/239/123/lang,en/)
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Yes, but the IL2 is actually modeled correct, the Wirble is not.
really so how many tigers did the IL 2 kill during the war with its cannons, and are you saying it could maneuver in real life as it does in the game?
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really so how many tigers did the IL 2 kill during the war with its cannons, and are you saying it could maneuver in real life as it does in the game?
Sorry, said it wrong. Meant to say the IL2's guns are modeled right. Early morning and no coffee. :o
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My history books tell me that Il-2 pilots did not have the F3 view, which they masterfully use in our game to time their neg-g red-outs perfectly.
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My history books tell me that Il-2 pilots did not have the F3 view, which they masterfully use in our game to time their neg-g red-outs perfectly.
lol i had a long thought out comeback all planed out, and there you go stealing my thunder lol
i think the gv's need f-3 mode, after all the tank commander could get out and walk around a bit
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I would rather see F3 view disabled for all aircraft/vehicles.
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lol i had a long thought out comeback all planed out, and there you go stealing my thunder lol
i think the gv's need f-3 mode, after all the tank commander could get out and walk around a bit
... while being strafed by all sorts of planes and GVs.
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Tried the F3 thing, could never hit doodly squat with it..
Even tho A20 has it, I divebomb from the pilot seat..
Get rid of F3, I don't care...
Might make life a little easier for gv's tho...
I hear alot of guys that DO use it...
RC
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I believe the f3 view is there to simulate having gunners and only planes that have gunners can use the f3 view. If your in a formation of bombers and some guy that knows what he is doing you'll never be able to track him without f3. I bomb with the A20 in the pilot seat too i need the pipper to line the future dead gv up. F3 view has been used by many to game the game....but to get rid of it would be a bad thing. With the IL2 as it is now leave the WW as it is and adjust the eny for it.
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I believe the f3 view is there to simulate having gunners and only planes that have gunners can use the f3 view. If your in a formation of bombers and some guy that knows what he is doing you'll never be able to track him without f3. I bomb with the A20 in the pilot seat too i need the pipper to line the future dead gv up. F3 view has been used by many to game the game....but to get rid of it would be a bad thing. With the IL2 as it is now leave the WW as it is and adjust the eny for it.
Why are the gunner positions not sufficient for tracking bandits? Certainly, they don't work as well as F3 view, but why should something as perspicacious as F3 view be available if you can still see all around the aircraft with the gunner views?
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Why are the gunner positions not sufficient for tracking bandits?
Yes, the top of the turret works great for me.
I'm surprised people are getting so uppity when someone has simply requested a model to be brought into line with historical performance that is well documented...sounds like they don't want to loose their easy mode grief machine... :noid
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lol i had a long thought out comeback all planed out, and there you go stealing my thunder lol
i think the gv's need f-3 mode, after all the tank commander could get out and walk around a bit
Yeah Whiskey, your a tiger guy.. Actually a tiger commander DID
get out and walk around ALOT.. Had to check the ground
to make sure his big fat tank didn't sink in it... SS tank crews
could get brought before the SS disciplinary court for loosing
a tank to the MUD... Especially a tiger!!!
Then they'd get sent to the SS Fallschirmjeager...
Virtually a death sentence...
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My history books tell me that Il-2 pilots did not have the F3 view, which they masterfully use in our game to time their neg-g red-outs perfectly.
How do you know they are in red-out? By the way its called a 'bunt' and Il2s are not the only aircraft that do it.
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I don't use F3 in it ... now what? Ohh as for the synchronized... I use the IL-2's guns like I do with the hurri. I tap the trigger ... makes for more whine from GVers that way. :aok
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Why are the gunner positions not sufficient for tracking bandits? Certainly, they don't work as well as F3 view, but why should something as perspicacious as F3 view be available if you can still see all around the aircraft with the gunner views?
The pilot didn't engage auto pilot to look around the aircraft from the gunners positions. Who do you think is telling that Il-2 pilot "to time their neg-g red-outs perfectly."
:P
wrongway
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I dont use F3 views either, most of all in the IL2. I fly along blind in about 300% of my 360% just for the challenge and because I'm so good.
Really.....I dont.
No.....really....really....I dont.
I mean it......really......I dont....I mean it.
I'm not kidding....I really dont use it....check with anybody.....I mean it.....I dont :rofl
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I'm happy for you Dickie boi. It's good to see a player that confident in his cartoon piloting ability not to need a crutch.
I on the other hand choose not to use it not because I am too good. Instead I refuse to use it as I feel it is one of the most gamey parts of the game. Especially in an AC that does not have a formation that's suppose to simulate multiple crew's eyes.
Like I said good for you. Glad too see you can do more than fluff.... you've come a long way. :aok
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I dont use F3 views either, most of all in the IL2. I fly along blind in about 300% of my 360% just for the challenge and because I'm so good.
Percents and degrees are two different things... ;)
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Could very well be so...
I run about 50/50 average...
Sometimes I rack'em up like tenpins, and
other times I'm swatted like a fly, LOL!!!
I like the matchup tho.. Kinda like the
Old west 6gun showdown at high noon...
What I really hate tho, are the tower
weenies!!! That park on pavement, so
they get a free shot at ya, MISS, then
tower, to avoid the bombs fallin on em...
Like a child, afraid to take their medicine..
If the Wirby is castrated, it'll get alot
easier tho.. See ya round, crater bait.. ;)
:salute Mash
RC
PS. Y'all know who you are... weenies!!!
But you see, I prefer the Ostie. 20mm's are for the kiddie pool.
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I give you credit, oh trolling one. You can keep a straight face when saying that. :D But then, while not to bright, trolls are cunning little beasties. Theres no way to check.
I personally believe you but I cant answer for anyone else.
I'm happy for you Dickie boi. It's good to see a player that confident in his cartoon piloting ability not to need a crutch.
I on the other hand choose not to use it not because I am too good. Instead I refuse to use it as I feel it is one of the most gamey parts of the game. Especially in an AC that does not have a formation that's suppose to simulate multiple crew's eyes.
Like I said good for you. Glad too see you can do more than fluff.... you've come a long way. :aok
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Then what do you do about Osties, and Tanks, and machine gun toting half tracks and jeeps ? They will all need little cartoon guys limiting their load times.
Load times are already modeled in tanks without the need of a "little cartoon guy".
ack-ack
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So shove that where it will do you the most good. :aok
I think he might find it already full of stuff :D
ack-ack
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Little bit ago I was defending a base with an A20. Long story short I landed 7 kills: 5 wirbles, 1 tiger, and 1 spit16...one rearm in this. But I landed a completely undamaged plane...not a single sprite. WW's are fine and this was brought up when they were first brought into AH but if you attack them right very little to worry about.
On a side note upped a WW killed one Niki with perk bonus of .78 and got 4.71 perks....thats what need fixed! Completely utterly stupid to get some many perks for such easy kills. And the niki was coming right at me...so don't go well there ya go WW is uber!
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Now I know why Wirbelwind's need to be fixed!
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/waystin2/Wirbelwindband.jpg)
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it is simple if your scared of em stay away