Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: uptown on January 13, 2009, 05:16:16 PM
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Lately several old timers have put their planes up in the hanger for good. And a few others have said they're close to doing the same. This bothers me. I feel like the old guard is leaving in masses, taking with them skill and class that this game sorely needs.
Most of them say they don't like the way the game is turning. But what does that mean? Is it the large maps,split arenas,hordes,smack taking,hoing, running,toolshedding,vulching,and milking?
Is it all of those things,just one or a combination of things? Is it the negative vibes on these boards. The witch hunts and shade vulchers. Or has the game just run its' coarse with them and they just want to move on.
I suspect they are tired of the gangs and the dogeatdog mentallity of the MA. Folks more worried about ranks and K/D or K/S. I wasn't around for AW. But from the things I've read from them about it, 1 on 1 fights were the norm and all the stuff i listed above didn't exist. They just didn't do it for the most part. I came in as AH1 was ending and it was always a massive hoarde on one huge map. So to me the MA mentallity has always been insane most of the time.
So my question is, why do you think they're leaving. Is it the player base or the game itself.
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i believe mr bob dylan said it the best "For the times they are a-changin"
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Maybe when they go back to the "good ol' days" they only remember the good fights they've had, never the bad ones. I don't know if there was like 1000s of players on each server of AW, but I would probably have to say, there either wasn't that many people playing AW, or they had many arenas.
I always have, and always will like this game, very fun, and always has been.
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When they go back to the "good ol' days" they only remember the good fights they've had, never the bad ones.
Woah, you can read minds to know exactly what they are thinking? Amazing! [/sarcasm]
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Woah, you can read minds to know exactly what they are thinking? Amazing! [/sarcasm]
When I think about when I first started playing, I only think about the fun I had. I know I died like 1000000 times, and I'm pretty sure I got very frustrated, but I don't remember them, think about when you first started playing, do you only remember the good fights? Or do you remember every time you upped, and got ganged, picked, augered... etc, list goes on for me.
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I'm not leaving but my biggest frustration in Aces High is finding a fight outside the ack.
Maps are too big with too many fields. The large number of players is diluted by the map size.
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uptown, I already posted my thoughts as to why they are leaving in this thread:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,256251.msg3167992.html#msg3167992
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I always have, and always will like this game, very fun, and always has been.
You're 16 some of these guys go back to Air Warrior DOS before you were born.
I'm coming up on 15 years myself.
You can't say it will be as fun for you 10 years or so.
The day may come when you don't like it anymore as well.
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You're 16 some of these guys go back to Air Warrior DOS before you were born.
I'm coming up on 15 years myself.
You can't say it will be as fun for you 10 years or so.
The day may come when you don't like it anymore as well.
I sure hope not :O
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i think they need to go back to small maps the big ones are just to big to be used during the day when there is only 200 people in the arena and if it was one there would be 400 people on during the day
i think it has to do with the arena splitting and the size of the maps to hard to find a good fight
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I believe everyones situation and reason for leaving is different, as an adult it is sometimes hard to justify spending so much time and energy on a video game. Especially in Dan's (CorkyJr's) case, he was given a second chance to be a father and took full advantage of it, you have to respect that. Things just run their course over time. I don't enjoy this game as much as I did when I started, and that was just 6 months ago. That is perhaps no fault of the game itself, when I began playing AH many of my expectations were predicated on my memories of Air Warrior, which, in my opinion had a better overall community than AH (As far as less bickering, fewer accusations, and fewer people trying to cheat the system). Again, just my opinion on that. Whatever the reason, good luck to you Raptor, it appears you have made many great contributions to this community in your time here.
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The general poor play was mentioned by the last three that left.
I know Dan has a new son that requires alot of attention and he has been working on a book that he wants to get finished.
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The general poor play was mentioned by the last three that left.
That's the main reason why I've been thinking over the last few days of hanging it up myself. The desire is no longer there, which is what led to my leaving SAPP.
For me, it has nothing to do with any real life issue and everything to with what I see as the decline of the game play.
ack-ack
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I remember the AW days. I started playing when it was AWIII on Kesmai. So, I really didn't have much AW experience. PO because PK was taken with the Grave Diggers!! I do remember it being alot of fun. Stopped playing FS's for awhile, only to find out that AW was gone when I attempted to come back. So, I end up catching this commercial on Discovery Wings one day and said "Oh yes, it's back on now baby!". I DL and sign on to find a whole new learning experience as it is not much like AW. I run into a couple of people, not knowing they are an actual "couple" by the names of USAgirl and Bobby01 of the L.A.S. Liberators. Yes, I are the noob at this point and they recruit me. Long story short, I get addicted and play ALOT. I found that squaddies were on all the time, so always something to do. Some of the best times I've had on this game. Then I reached my point of frustration because I just can't get over the "Fighter Pilot" hump. Everybody is kicking my arse!! :furious Well, not everybody. But more than I'm handing to them. :mad: Big surprise for anyone who can guess my game ID in those days!!! JB42 and hornet36 are not allowed to play!! :aok So early one morning (approx. 3 a.m. :D) after another temper attack and about to give up, Straiga takes me into the TA for some lessons on flying. Please all Straiga haters refrain from comment. Thank you. He continues to teach me all characteristics and dynamics of flight until, "Holy crap Straiga, the suns up!!!". Needless to say, that squad fell apart and it was time to move on. But I do owe Straiga a ton for taking the time and getting me to take off the training wheels. Which brought me to joining the III/Jabostaffel and the creation of JB11. :rock Think I just heard 999000 screaming from a distance. At this point the game is flying along and we are having a blast. This squad is well organized and could advance on a map very fast. Not to take anything away from L.A.S. Liberators. I think we just had alot of fun in that squad. This one is a little more disciplined and takes alot of pride in what they do and represent. The main reason I joined the JB's. Then BAM!! the JB77 incident. That about put me over the edge. <swallows a couple of Xanex> So as far as that problem with the "game" goes. That's where it started for me. If you have to cheat? Don't expect me to do much more associating with you. :salute Then all the changes come along, i.e. towns get bigger (harder to capture), more ack (fun police take over), ENY (because whiners about numbers in countries), etc. I'm sure all the vets know what I'm talking about. It all started to become a bore to me. So I moved on and joined Wings of Terror and became ElevenK. Had loads of fun with these guys too. Pretty much a furballing squad, but that's just not me. I'm more of a "Let's advance and accomplish something" kind of a guy. Sorry gents, that just doesn't happen in here anymore. Which leads me to my almost leaving the game myself. I was searching for the "old times" and wasn't finding it anywhere. I'm afraid it won't be found anytime soon either. Is it burnout? Who knows. So I still play along with the reincarnation of JB11 which has reformed with, the best damn wingman anyone could ever have, JB42 and IV/Jabostaffel. I'm not saying I'm quitting, we'll just see where it goes form here. Yes, we will be recruiting shortly. :aok Sorry so lengthy, I just get on a roll sometimes. :D
My .02
:salute 11
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There are too many different reasons why old timers leave and I'm sure it ranges from family to boredom. I started playing AW back in the 90's and moved to AH in tour 23ish. The fun factor hasn't been there for me like it was in the past for about 2 years now, I have gone months logging only a few hours here and there. My squad mates and friends I have made over the years keeps my account active.
Many things have changed in AH since I started playing, some good and some bad, but it's only what you make of it. Hoarding, ganging and vulching have been around a long time, they aren't new. The game's stayed relatively the same but the gamers seem to have changed....There was a time when smacktalk was witty not demeaning...
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I started AW in the fall of 95 (Mims), the thing I think I liked about AW was the FR - RR split, no offense to anyone but the FR crowd yes smaller seemed more about the flying and less about the Score and the noise. The RR crowd was more like the Friday night bar scene. AH seems more like the Friday night bar scene than the more serious minded WW2 flying enthusiast. Not saying all, but seems like. I got here when AW closed so I don't know if AH was ever like AW FR.
The point is if I had not taken so many breaks I wouldn't be flying period, the problem is in the relearning and the adapting to the game play style.
Yes at many points I realized I was allmost missing some important things that were going on around me but when AW died I stopped letting the game dominate.
Some of these guys leaving I think have played non stop, that's just too much the bar scene will burn you out.
Sorry for the ramble hope the above reads the way it sounded in my head, lol
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:huh I never knew you were elevenK
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? - JB11 - ElevenK - 1Eleven1 - JB11. You don't think i was gonna give it away, did ya? :devil
:salute 11
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Uptown, i believe its more or less the mentality of the MA.
As you mentioned theres the Hoarders, vulchers, milk runners, and the sort.
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I played warbirds in the late 90s, and the only difference with AH is all the whines about cherry picking. :rofl
Seriously, people leave because they've been at it for years and get burnt out. The game is addicting and after a while the dopamine rush just isn't there. After hundreds or thousands of hours in the virtual skies, taking long breaks is healthy and natural. Don't worry, they'll be back. ;)
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999000<----------often wakes up in the middle of the night SREAMING.............109's high 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My thearpist refuses to forward my bill to JB11.
<S>999000
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Over-reaction first and foremost.
Video Games come and go, that's just how it is. People that have been playing for 10+ years have the right to find something else for entertainment. That is the nature of the beast.
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Honestly, I'm glad I only get to play once or twice a week for only a few hours. Keeps things interesting than some guys on here that log 7 hours a day for 30 days straight.
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I guess things happen in someones life that become bigger than anything else. I have thought about leaving . When I came from Iraq in NOv emergency leave because my son was born with a rare heart disorder, I thought about quitting the game but I thought about it and I stuck around because I need the temporary escape from everything. Maybe I am totally off the mark of this post but I also decided to stick around because of the support I have gotten from my squaddies and associates on here. Tomcat , out ...
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I never played AW or warbirds, I started Ah in 04 for awhile and came back in 06. The game is alot different than it was even in 2004 and 2006. Attitudes mainly. I see alot of "someone needs to do this or that" "The (insert chesspiece) never work together" The constant whine becasue someone killed you. " I need I need I need, gimme gimme gimme." This is a GREAT game. This is the most entertaining and involved game out there. HT has put together exactly what most of were looking for. Atleast for me anyway. But its what you make of it, there are lots of different things to do ingame, not everyone wants the same. I imagine alot of the old hands are tired of this crap. I think to make the game better its up to us, the players, to act like grown ups, quit squeakin so much and just play and have fun. Plus get SILATS new improved Squeaker Hack ready before Summer.
If all the Old timers leave, this game is done.
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I think it is just because of the same old boring crap...Same basic game same old thing everyday...
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People have always left for various reasons, people also come back just as frequently. People leaving always attracts 10 times the fanfare as people returning as negative issues always get more press than positive ones. This is a very mature community, most of the original participants of this genre are not gamers per se, but are WWII combat aviation enthusiasts, which is an important distinction to keep in mind when contemplating the state of affairs now and in the past.
Most of the squadrons I have been in during my 18+ years have been comprised of people who generally do not play any other game except AW--->AH. They tend to play for the love of the subject matter not for the love of "the game" itself. The more the subject matter tends to take a backseat to the "gamey aspects" the less appealling they tend to find it.
Certainly some do leave because of a subjective perception that the "game" is not as compelling as it once was for whatever reason. Sometimes that is true in some respects. But, retrospection has a nasty habit of turning artifacts of "fond memories" into flawed recollections tainted by rose colored glasses. With only a few exceptions those that I know from the "old school" days that profess leaving for "gameplay" reasons were at least partially to blame for their apathy by failing to adapt to the product and the players in an evolving way over time. You simply cannot extrapolate what worked 15 years ago in another product against different people to the MA of AH tonight without thoughtful consideration for changes in your overall approach to compensate accordingly.
The developer has a role in all of this too, as Pyro indicated a few months ago, full effort is going to be put forth into the development of the core product now. That will do a lot to restore lost faith in the development process itself and stimulate enthusiasm for the game. Hopefully this will act as a catalyst for a resurgence of interest and a return to the fold of bygone members of our long-toothed and fickle community.
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Why are they leaving? If you take good air to air fights out of this game what is it? A poorly designed strategy game with tremendously outdated graphics, the only attainable accomplishment being "winning" the chance to start right from scratch again. The question isn't why they left, it's why people for whom the fight has lost its fun stick around for as long as they do.
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Uptown, i believe its more or less the mentality of the MA.
As you mentioned theres the Hoarders, vulchers, milk runners, and the sort.
Don't forget the pathetic tools that vulch shade accounts, they're just as guilty and just as sad.
ack-ack
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I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the average player now, in 2009, has become the younger, video game bred player who worries more about score and "winning" than the average player of 5 years or more ago, who was generally an aviation and history enthusiast here to get a bit of "the experience".
I was never in AW, but I've heard from several who played it that they really started going downhill when it was released as a boxed game and kids with no patience or knowledge of what the game was about started playing it and drowning out the "old breed". So many of them went over to WB.
Now I played WarBirds for several years, and was asked to become a CM just before I left it. I got fed up with it because of the almost daily swing from a simulation to a game, with the player base becoming more and more of a war-winning horde than a group of enthusiasts enjoying the fight and the experience of the scenarios and events. So I left in 2001.
When I came here and began flying regularly in 2004-05, the game was like WB was when I started- relatively mature group of core players and good, intense fights with folks who were in it for the fun, not the score. Then the massive influx of kids started, and it almost overnight got much worse than WB ever was. I've several times taken long breaks, usually with the intention of not coming back. Eventually I get bored with boxed games and come back for a while, and every time the progress is apparent on just about the first sortie. First was teh arena split, then the larger and larger maps, and finally this "Titanic Tuesday" which seems like an online daycare service instead of a flight sim. Now I usually spend half my time chasing high cherry pickers around the map who refuse to fight, even when they have every advantage, and the other half fighting mass hordes of skilless score-monger clones. Even among friendlies you can see the gameplay dropping fast- in the old days, you would be asked if you needed help before someone jumped into a 1v1, now you have to get to ramming distance to keep from killshooting yourself on all the kill stealers.
I can see why the "vets" are starting to leave in droves, and maybe they'll be coming back when they get bored and start to miss the good times. Unfortunately the "good times" are now far outweighed by the increasingly lame style of gameplay and immaturity of the players- some long time players who've been "infected" included.
I don't consider myself an "old timer", but I've gotten to the point where I basically just stick around for events and scenarios. I usually only go into the MAs or into the AvA during regular hours when I'm looking to try out a new plane or get used to a new setup in "combat" instead of offline where you can't really try it out.
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It sucks that HTC isn't doing anything too try and keep them in the game.
The game is only as good as the people participating in it.
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999000<----------often wakes up in the middle of the night SREAMING.............109's high 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My thearpist refuses to forward my bill to JB11.
<S>999000
Let's look at it this way, you are the sole reason I've become halfway descent at it!!! Now there's a positive approach. If anyone has pinpoint lasers, it's 999000.
:salute 11
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Don't forget the pathetic tools that vulch shade accounts, they're just as guilty and just as sad.
ack-ack
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
MasonZ what chess piece do you fly on btw?
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The actual answer is pretty simple....
It's no longer fun for many of us.
Why...
Because we "grew up" in a skill based environment slanted toward individual accomplishment...
What we have now bears almost no semblance to the original public beta beyond the name. A tremendous number of changes have been made in everything from the flight model, bombing methods and "strategy". As the game has dumbed down it has become more and more "gameable". I'll give a single example of what I mean, a few weeks ago I had a small verbal exchange with a bunch of guys from one of the horde monkey squads. Now not all of them are bad sticks, a few are quite capable when flying from the advantage (which isnt always easy) and a few are reasonably capable in a one on one vs an average pilot...
My point is in the fundamental change of the rank and file and typical squad mentality. I'd be embarrassed to fly with them and more and more they hold no interest to fly against. Few of them can hold there own 1 on 1 and most have no interest in getting any better. They hide behind bluster, BS and numbers and more and more of the new players view this as good game play. In part because we have a score/pwn mentality based on a bogus manipulatable system. The "old guard" has been leaving for a long time. The guys who made the AK's a name worthy of respect cant even be bothered to play any more (just one example).
The reality is simple, in a game geared toward the lowest common denominator the highest common denominator tends to leave....just that simple. The heart and soul of this game has been slowly bleeding out for years now.
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Thankyou Snaphook. I was hoping to hear from you. :salute And thanks to Zazen also. Your views are always on the mark sir. :salute
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I think there's also a burn out factor.
I've been here since the last quarter of AH1, so I don't really consider myself an old timer. Even so, this game has held me better than any other computer game I've played. In the past I'd figure on buying a new box of something or other every month to every other month or so. It would take only a few weeks to squeeze the product to the point that I'd beaten it, or found out that I COULDN'tT beat it with the time I wanted to give, or until I just got tired of it. On the other hand, for almost half a decade I've been entertained and challenged with AH.
In the last year I find myself playing less than before, and in the last few months very little at all. In part that's happening because I've lost some of the social contacts that made the game fun (as other guys have left). Some no doubt is just me getting bored of the very things that used to keep me interested...and I bet that's just par for the course, the "natural history" of an AH player.
I'm hoping to find a way to make it new -- flying with different guys, different styles, different goals.
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Seriously, people leave because they've been at it for years and get burnt out.
And you've personally discussed this with each of them? Your positive you know exactly why they left?
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Maybe when they go back to the "good ol' days" they only remember the good fights they've had, never the bad ones. I don't know if there was like 1000s of players on each server of AW, but I would probably have to say, there either wasn't that many people playing AW, or they had many arenas.
I always have, and always will like this game, very fun, and always has been.
There were many arenas. The caps were low. There were not open plane set arenas. Meaning you could choose from differnt Euro arenas or a Pac arenas. Each arena had its regulars (players) that could be found there. MW and AVA are the closest thing to that I can think of in AH. And no, I do not include DA furball lame (and that is not a typo).
The other night when I was on, I overheard a player on range say "be careful, those buffs are probably from the ****** squadron". I started giggling to myself. You've got to be freaking kidding me? That's the idea of skill to be feared? How pathetic.
Tonight, I was watching a friendly on a P-39, situation well in hand and this other guy comes in about 100mph faster and picks him off. About a minute later I am reeling in an enemy from 800-600 yards, and its only a matter of seconds until I gain a few more yards and start firing. Same guy passes, drops into my firing solution line and snags that bogie. Minute and a half later I see that guy land two kills. LOL, why even bother playing you dufus?
But that seems to be the attitude. More and more players are happy being either a blind squirl, or the weasle, and are proud of it. <shrug>
But back to the arena setup. My comment on the arena split was from the getgo that there will never be the "neighborhoods" that pyro had talked about so long as there are open planeset arenas. Everyone will go were all planes are available, and it would be more of the same (slums).
Pretty much all of the "issues" have always been there in some form or another. I don't care how far back you go. But when it was a case of everyone knowing everyone else in an arena, people tended to behave better. I do not agree that there is no fun to be had. I do agree that there is a trend that it seems to be getting harder and harder to come by.
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the game has gone to the pits.
i canceled my account earlier this month.
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But back to the arena setup. My comment on the arena split was from the getgo that there will never be the "neighborhoods" that pyro had talked about so long as there are open planeset arenas. Everyone will go were all planes are available, and it would be more of the same (slums).
IIRC, didn't Mid War used to have like 100+ people on it before the dual Arenas? It's been so long, I may be wrong, but I remember that I used to fly MW a good bit when I first started.
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There were many arenas. The caps were low. There were not open plane set arenas. Meaning you could choose from differnt Euro arenas or a Pac arenas. Each arena had its regulars (players) that could be found there. MW and AVA are the closest thing to that I can think of in AH. And no, I do not include DA furball lame (and that is not a typo).
yes there did become many arenas, I fondly recall anticipating Next month for the PTOFR to come, always hated ETOFR month, always had a good knowledge of who was who until BigWeek happened and then there was 4 RRs for both ETO/PTO, 1ETOFR, 1 PTOFR, and Bigweek, and noone can forget Fightertown FR Arena, and the DA environment was for real and available in any arena just you and your opponent 1vs 1 once you initiated the duel
But back to the arena setup. My comment on the arena split was from the getgo that there will never be the "neighborhoods" that pyro had talked about so long as there are open planeset arenas. Everyone will go were all planes are available, and it would be more of the same (slums).
Pretty much all of the "issues" have always been there in some form or another. I don't care how far back you go. But when it was a case of everyone knowing everyone else in an arena, people tended to behave better. I do not agree that there is no fun to be had. I do agree that there is a trend that it seems to be getting harder and harder to come by.
purty much 2nd this whole quote.......
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The point was, it doesn't matter what "other" arenas are setup, Pacific, Eastern and Western Europe, Early, Midwar, whatever. As long as there is an open planeset arena, that's where the herd will be. And the hordes, and the lameness of anonymity.
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I think the game is better than ever. I don't know why they are leaving. Only they can tell you that. Personally the only thing that gets me depressed are these threads that constantly bash the game. I have the utmost confidence in Hitech that any improprieties will be resolved and that the game will continually be evolved. When I get bored or when I get a bad attitude I take a break. When I come back it's all new to me. In spite of all that hullabaloo raised over the last couple of months over about everything Bish are still Bish, Rooks are still Rooks, and Knits are still Knits.
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People are just starting to get tired of the same old gameplay. If it were not for me liking the squad I was in, I would probably cancel my account too
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Oh, It's really not threads bashing the game, it has everything to do with the quality of the bulk of subscribers.
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damn this is strange, I agree with Murdr again, this is not a bashing thread, and if we do not open up and post our thoughts, then how can the Service provider accomadate our desires?
Murdr, thats why I went and highlighted in blue about matching era plane sets or matching theater of operations. the neighborhood thing makes perfect logical sense to me, and I think it would help the whole community. People could still pick their desired playground to go fight.
that's how I took your post, anyhows.......
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if you want my opinion, guys who have been playing for 5 years or so get burned out. When you are at 10 plus years, you are playing for friends and love of the genre. Heck at 5 years, I you've done everything so many times there is nothing new...now double that. The only thing left are friends and the fights. As mentioned earlier, aces high, over the years has really moved away from the actual fight. Instead of combat being the main objective with fields being the catalyst, we are at a state where a large focus is getting easy kills in packs, vulching your friend, running for your life at all costs, and grinding out/milking bases in the name of the empire. When good fights are hard to come by, you are left with chatting with your friends, which isn't all bad...but you not are not left with much in the way of gameplay. Of course real life obligations also come into play.
AH has changed over the years, some gameplay elements...but the largest part has been the attitude change.
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I've never cared for the open plane set thing either. There's nothing worse for me than to be having a good pony vs 109 fight, just to have 3 spit16s dive in and mess the whole thing up.
This happens most of the time to me. I would love to see more people in the AvA. But it seems everytime i go in there, there's only 3 or 4 guys on.
I was really really hoping CT would happen in hopes that all the stupidy would come to an end. :salute
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The problem with threads like these is very simple. Too many folks clamber and grab to reach the top of the "morality high ground" and get the "right answer that everyone wants to hear."
We all know why they left. No excuses, no drama, no exceptions. They left.
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The problem with threads like these is very simple. Too many folks clamber and grab to reach the top of the "morality high ground" and get the "right answer that everyone wants to hear."
We all know why they left. No excuses, no drama, no exceptions. They left.
well by gosh, I was lied to. I was certian I was told it was all Karaya's fault! :D
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well by gosh, I was lied to. I was certian I was told it was all Karaya's fault! :D
Sup Teslaman. ;) How many know that? It's this type of crap that keeps some of us here. Most nowadays don't care.
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IIRC, didn't Mid War used to have like 100+ people on it before the dual Arenas? It's been so long, I may be wrong, but I remember that I used to fly MW a good bit when I first started.
No.
ack-ack
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Lately several old timers have put their planes up in the hanger for good. And a few others have said they're close to doing the same. This bothers me. I feel like the old guard is leaving in masses, taking with them skill and class that this game sorely needs.
Most of them say they don't like the way the game is turning. But what does that mean? Is it the large maps,split arenas,hordes,smack taking,hoing, running,toolshedding,vulching,and milking?
Is it all of those things,just one or a combination of things? Is it the negative vibes on these boards. The witch hunts and shade vulchers. Or has the game just run its' cotomato with them and they just want to move on.
I suspect they are tired of the gangs and the dogeatdog mentallity of the MA. Folks more worried about ranks and K/D or K/S. I wasn't around for AW. But from the things I've read from them about it, 1 on 1 fights were the norm and all the stuff i listed above didn't exist. They just didn't do it for the most part. I came in as AH1 was ending and it was always a massive hoarde on one huge map. So to me the MA mentallity has always been insane most of the time.
So my question is, why do you think they're leaving. Is it the player base or the game itself.
i think it's a little of everythign you've mentioned. i think a lot of the more skilled players, have spent a lot of time trying to teach the new guys, only to have the new guys blow em off, and fall into the hotard hordes.
it's nearly impossible to find a fight that someone won't ho ya in. when you try to avoid, and they clean your clock, they say it wasn't a ho, because you turned your nose away from them.
if you were one of these oldtimers, and spent countless hours of your valuable time trying to teach something, and the guys you taught, didn't do a dam thing you taught em, but rather went on a ho'in rampage, how would you feel?
then ya have the guys that refuse to fight unless there's 20 of their buddies, and only a few of you.
i wish so many of em weren;'t leaving, as it makes guys like me that already have limited time ingame, less likely go log on. why would i if i'm only gonna get raped, ho'd or rammed?
anyway...i could be wrong, but that's just my 2 cents.
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C'mon guys, this is a video game. At some point ALL OF US will leave. Even the game itself will end one day. That's life. Things change, people come and go. Nothing last forever.
Duuuust in the wiiiind :rock
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With the down turn in the economy hitting people world wide the first thing to go is a monthly fee on entertainment.
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Sup Teslaman. ;) How many know that? It's this type of crap that keeps some of us here. Most nowadays don't care.
lets see, that was what 4 or 5 yrs ago, I doubt 6,000+ of the newcomers ( some stayed some left ) never even heard of the effort........ is as well part of reason I stick around , myself ~S~
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The actual answer is pretty simple....
It's no longer fun for many of us.
Why...
Because we "grew up" in a skill based environment slanted toward individual accomplishment...
What we have now bears almost no semblance to the original public beta beyond the name. A tremendous number of changes have been made in everything from the flight model, bombing methods and "strategy". As the game has dumbed down it has become more and more "gameable". I'll give a single example of what I mean, a few weeks ago I had a small verbal exchange with a bunch of guys from one of the horde monkey squads. Now not all of them are bad sticks, a few are quite capable when flying from the advantage (which isnt always easy) and a few are reasonably capable in a one on one vs an average pilot...
My point is in the fundamental change of the rank and file and typical squad mentality. I'd be embarrassed to fly with them and more and more they hold no interest to fly against. Few of them can hold there own 1 on 1 and most have no interest in getting any better. They hide behind bluster, BS and numbers and more and more of the new players view this as good game play. In part because we have a score/pwn mentality based on a bogus manipulatable system. The "old guard" has been leaving for a long time. The guys who made the AK's a name worthy of respect cant even be bothered to play any more (just one example).
The reality is simple, in a game geared toward the lowest common denominator the highest common denominator tends to leave....just that simple. The heart and soul of this game has been slowly bleeding out for years now.
HiTech would say that it is you that have changed and not the game....Hold on I'll go pull a quote :)
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I think the game is better than ever. I don't know why they are leaving. Only they can tell you that. Personally the only thing that gets me depressed are these threads that constantly bash the game. I have the utmost confidence in Hitech that any improprieties will be resolved and that the game will continually be evolved. When I get bored or when I get a bad attitude I take a break. When I come back it's all new to me. In spite of all that hullabaloo raised over the last couple of months over about everything Bish are still Bish, Rooks are still Rooks, and Knits are still Knits.
I see it as more of a player bashing thread.
Sup Teslaman. ;) How many know that? It's this type of crap that keeps some of us here. Most nowadays don't care.
I was quite interested in everyones replys. Crap wasn't in the conversation until you brought it in. It would be nice for just once to have a mature discussion without a smart tomato comment from you. But i guess that's too much to ask. Thanks for the comments tomatohat :salute
and i didn't type tomato!
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I agree with the other "old timers" Murdr, TC, Snap Its the game play mentality that is dragging the game down. Today far to many people are hey trying to play this game like a "Quake"type game. Fast action, shoot shoot shoot till you die trying to garner as many points as you can then repeat. The old game mentality was based more on the history the game represented. The trill of out maneuvering the opponent and get a guns solution, and going for it.
Example.... couple days ago a certain bish squad had snuck in and grabbed a couple of bases behind the front aways. I saw the dar start flashing and figured they were looking to add to the group. I along with 3 other guys upped some fighters. I was in a spit8, the other I didn't have time to check. Dots just now starting to pop for some altitude... 5...12... 20 ! 110s, 38s spits wide assortment of planes Starting to look like a good fight right? Wrong. I pop two 110s over the town when a spit gets me, I up again and get vulched, again same. Fights over 3 or 4 minute later they capture the base. I asked on 200 why the 4 of us scared them so much they had to vulch us with 5 to 1 odds..... didn't get an answer from them, just a dork who wasn't even in the fight mouthing off. 20 minutes later the bases the bish had taken were all recaptured because it was no longer a cake walk for these guys so they left to look for another quit spot on the map to sneak more bases.
These bish have the quake mentality...grab grab grab, and runaway as soon as it looks like they might get shot down, or have to work for it. The old days, Bish would have been congratulated for the sneak, and it would have been an all night affair to dig them out of there. It would have been an epic battle. Todays player looks for the quick easy kills, cherry pick, ho gang bang in a horde where they won't get shot back at, then get his 2 and runs for home to get his name in lights. There are far to many "mouths" in this game that get away with far too much BS. This in turn shows the newer players "how its done" so they become cut from the same mold.
I'm 50 years old, been flying for over 12 years, both AW and AH. I'd love the chance to get tired of the same old game play, unfortunately the game play hasn't stayed the same long enough. Things change, unfortunately this time its going down hill.
Some of you people laugh when one of us talks about "honor", "its a game," they say" I'll play the way I want to!" Whats wrong with honor in a game? Whats wrong with a little class? Whats wrong with some sportsmanship? All of that is missing these days. Dallas Stars had one of those "mouthy" types playing for them... they are now the laughing stock of the NHL, even his own teammates threw him under the bus. The good people, the honest people, the classy people are the ones leaving, and we are all going to be a bit poorer for it. Recently someone got spotlighted for padding his score. This isn't a new trend, its been going on for months, but now with the new score board sorting its easily proven.
This is the type of players we have now. People who don't give something like "padding their score" a second thought. Diving in on a good 1 vs 1 fight, porking factories NOT for hurting the strat and resupply times, to pad their score. Taking bases behind enemy lines NOT for a foot hold or to start a fight, but to sneak as many bases as they can so they cam pat themselves on the back for their milk running. No class, No honor, no sportsmanship, and no fun.
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I was quite interested in everyones replys. Crap wasn't in the conversation until you brought it in. It would be nice for just once to have a mature discussion without a smart tomato comment from you. But i guess that's too much to ask. Thanks for the comments tomatohat :salute
uptown, sir, you are way way way off base with this one, better spit out a hidden hook you never saw, when you bit! ;)
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Here's one humble...
Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, Figure out new and chalanging things to do to gether, still having fun.
Step 4. Few friends leave, play less, still have fun on ocation.
Step 5. Rembers the fun they used to have, log on for that fun, but can't seem to get that all encompasing, time passes by hours and feels like minets feeling anymore. But they still hold out hope for that feeling.
Step 6. Feeling just dons't realy come back, Start blaming everyone else and the game for them not having that feeling any more.
Step 7. Become vocal about yourself not having fun. Try to persuade everone else that you not having fun is all there fault.
I have seen this cycle repeated over and over with people. Most people tend to retire at 5. And only a rair few ever make it to step 7.
What I have never figured out, is how HTC should deal with the step 7 player. Let them complain, or take action and just end there suffering.
HiTech
Sorry. I'll have to agree with humble. The skill paradigm humble describes seems to be obsolete, and is more like score any way you can without shame. How about this model?
Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, take the path of least resistance, fly in a horde, and annoy everyone else with your proclimations of uberness.
Step 4. Call the vets whiners and tell them to S T F U for pointing out your lack of abilities.
Step 5. Take ownership of gameplay by sheer numbers of mediocraty and indifference to skills as they are not needed in a horde.
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uptown, sir, you are way way way off base with this one, better spit out a hidden hook you never saw, when you bit! ;)
DOH! Well then a apologize for calling kayara a tomato head ..or whatever the filter called him :lol
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Here's one humble...
Sorry. I'll have to agree with humble. The skill paradigm humble describes seems to be obsolete, and is more like score any way you can without shame. How about this model?
Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, take the path of least resistance, fly in a horde, and annoy everyone else with your proclimations of uberness.
Step 4. Call the vets whiners and tell them to S T F U for pointing out your lack of abilities.
Step 5. Take ownership of gameplay by sheer numbers of mediocraty and indifference to skills as they are not needed in a horde.
I am going to save this, print it and frame it with the date posted on it....... no offense to HTC and Aces High, but this is Classic and at the same time the present truth..... and at the same time, I will step up and take part of the blame, since I am a "oldtimer" that has posted on occassion and have not really done everything I could possibly do to make the situation at hand better than it is..........
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Murdr,
I have the utmost respect for Dale and company. No question I've changed in response to my environment, its inevitable. However I think the "unhappiness" here comes from an unwillingness to continue to adapt. The aspects of the game I love are being constantly eroded. So in the end it seems your left with a choice of extremes. Either join the herd and fly double superior planes vs over matched guys who you still respect for flying against the numbers, fly double superior planes against the numbers and use the green guys as bait and decoys or continue to fly "old school" against ever increasing odds and get your brains beat out. You can only get killed so many times by the "nth guy in" before it grates on you. I think thats where I finally went A-20/SBD. I guess in the end its a statement of some kind that tried to say "look at all your missing by not even trying to scratch the surface".
What I dont understand is why you cant have a "tactical arena" in addition to the current one. No formations, no 4 engine bombers, variable plane set by field, increasing toughness for capture as you move further to "the rear" etc.. I also suggested a historic (by country) revolving plane set (again tactical). My thought is that Japan, Russia, England would be a good match up to start.
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I think its a combination of all the things you mentioned uptown. Its to bad , were loseing alot of skilled players.
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This is a good post. If the older guys are leaving as you say, I'll slide in my 2 cents. I didnt read every reply so some of what I say may have been said.
First off, AW and AH are two totally different animals. AW had arenas of the same planes, but gave a choice for what they called RR and FR. Less people per arena compared to AH's LW MAs, but it didnt feel it. AH has more arenas, each slightly different in plane sets. The main difference is that there is no easy setting for RR like in AW "relaxed Realism". This forces all players into one arena, or atleast one style. Learn or burn.
This is good because it forces everyone to fly together and more realisticly. But its also a bad thing from my point of view. It forces grown men to play with children. This is never good. It exposes children to adults in a way they may not be used to. Rather than looking up to them, they look at them as peers and no respect comes from it, and likely carries over into their real world in some small way.
The adults among children, often get caught up in the fight and competition, often forget they are playing with children, and start acting like one themselves. Maybe its because I flew in FR "full realism" (as real as AW got) I didnt fly with kids, I didnt know of any in the game. I suspected it was a cost thing, but most likely the kids were in RR.
I would love to see an arena tailored for adults if there was a way to do it. Preferrably 35+
That said, in AW the good pilots were for the most part good people. Many of the good pilots in here come off as just plain nasty. It makes for a sour environment. Most, rather than teach, would rather belittle their opponents, "OWNED"...yuck. The funny thing is remember when some of these new aces werent very good, and seeing their personalities change when they finally got good...and many for the worse.
Another thing, there are too many people in one arena. Too many hordes, too few good fights between pilots. Less is better. Its more personal. I think that is the lure of early and mid wars for many in here. You get to know your opponents better, and chances are, with a few exceptions you can have better relationships with them.
Another thing different with AW was you didnt have the HO. You had to outfly the guy to get atleast a 45 degree angle to have your bullets actually hit. ( Although some 38s did seem to get HO hits at times)
In here you have the luxury of spraying at any angle with no real flying other than FAST to worry about.
Finally, many of us have played for years. No matter that its one of our favorite pass times, its tends to get stale after so many years. For the rest of you remember this. There were many sim aces before you, and there will be many after you. You arent the be all end all. Get over yourselves, learn to help others who find this game difficult, and start making the next crop of aces so you have good fights ahead of you.
Sorry for the long winded reply, but AH isnt the problem. Its the mentality of its players.
Play nice.
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I love you filth...I know it just doesn't sound right....
<S>999000
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What I don't understand is if folks are so frustrated w/the game play in the MA. Why don't they move into one of the lesser populated arenas and rebuild the game there? AvA is a no population arena 22 hours a day. Early war not much better. These arenas are wide open invitations to at least attempt to establish the code of honor many here say is gone. I as a new player would love to log into one of these servers full of people who love the planes and tactics rather than the scores or uber aircraft.
Riceball.
(This post is not ment as troll bait. All due respect, I really don't understand why someone keeps beating thier head against a wall when the doors right there.)
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I agree with what has been said. I have only been at this game for alittle over 2 years and the luster hasnt worn of yet. There is still plenty for me to learn and on occassion I have asked the skilled/veteran players for tips and or advice. I have yet to run across someone that didnt want to help me. MY aspiration is not to replace of the old guard, those are shoes I cannot fill, I do want to be competitive. I wanna learn fighters, by far my weakest area and I am taking steps toward that...oh hell...train of thought is gone and so am I.
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And you've personally discussed this with each of them? Your positive you know exactly why they left?
I think a lot of people who leave are burnt out and declare other reasons ad-hoc; especially the "gameplay in decline" type of reasons. Human psychology is surreptitious like that. Nothing spells addiction and burnout better than threads like this: omg! Why are people leaving?! What's happening?!
The arenas have always been the same thing. Lots of furballing, ganging, and running away. It was the same damn thing more than 10 years ago in HT's warbirds, and you heard the same whines about people who didn't play with honor, and who didn't fight like they ought to. And the people complaining would wax nostalgic about Confirmed Kill, and about how much better the fights were, yada, yada, yada... All these poor guys have lasted longer than is humanly imaginable. Take a break, a long break. I was away from online flight sims for more than 6 years before I got the hankering again. It's always scenarios/FSOs (squadron select series) that are worth the time and effort, and that's the way it will always be. The main arenas are a hamster wheel that suit the lowest common denominator, and yet, people act surprised or indignant when that's pointed out.
Ok, I've had a few. That's my $.02.
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They tend to play for the love of the subject matter not for the love of "the game" itself
Yikes, I agree with Zazen.
I think that the change from WWII aviation hobbyists to...whoever it is we have today....has been key to the way the game has changed. In AvA I think it's probably more pronounced because, once you lose people who want to see what the Battle of Britain was like, or the Battle of Berlin, or Guadalcanal or the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, you're left with a smaller collection of planes, and one side usually has an advantage of some sort over the other side. The historians didn't mind this so much, but it's a tough sell to the win-the-war crowd (many of whom are at a loss to even identify the foregoing battles).
Having said that (and, I think, having seen that change with my own eyes), the halcyon days of yore glow more brightly than they actually were. By the end of 1995 I certainly knew the terms "ganging," "vuching" and "porking." There were bad sports then, just as there are now. But I do think that nearly everyone valued 1v1 skill more than they do now, too. The ability to "win" the war in AH is different from earlier games, and it is bound to produce different behavior in the players.
So: sooner or later, the dinosaurs slink off into the mountains, and the world changes.
- oldman
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I agree with many of the sentiments around here, but I still feel that many of the new players just need a chance.
I was passionate about the joy in fighting mobs without alt or speed advantage on a recent thread about hordes. I offered my limited teaching abilities to a member of a large squad on this thread and recently he took advantage of it.
The results were dramatic, this guy was not only cordial but he also was a sponge and went from being a target drone to a decent stick in a slow stall fight. I really welcome the chance to show him more, not only because both of us enjoyed ourselves but also because I know I am giving back to the game, in some small manner.
The problem is that many of the new players will never experience the joy of sparring with one plane and instead have decided on using crutch of the hordes around them. Here is a couple quotes;
"Don't go flying off on your own, we can kill the rooks easier if we all attack one plane at a time. Then we drop the hangers"
We use our squads biggest strength, which is numbers. We can still take a base with an ENY of 26, and we can take your base with the hardest planes to fly. It doesn't matter what we do, we can still take any base with great effectiveness. And that's why we do it.
50% of us, don't need to go back to our "hordes" to get kills, but like I said, we are effective at what we do, and why would we change it? we have the numbers almost every night against any squad in the game, we even get a scrolly bar sometimes."
The problem is that not all the new players care about the odds, nor do they know one iota of history.
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I agree with many of the sentiments around here, but I still feel that many of the new players just need a chance.
I was passionate about the joy in fighting mobs without alt or speed advantage on a recent thread about hordes. I offered my limited teaching abilities to a member of a large squad on this thread and recently he took advantage of it.
The results were dramatic, this guy was not only cordial but he also was a sponge and went from being a target drone to a decent stick in a slow stall fight. I really welcome the chance to show him more, not only because both of us enjoyed ourselves but also because I know I am giving back to the game, in some small manner.
The problem is that many of the new players will never experience the joy of sparring with one plane and instead have decided on using crutch of the hordes around them. Here is a couple quotes;
The problem is that not all the new players care about the odds, nor do they know one iota of history.
Couldn't agree more! :aok
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Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, take the path of least resistance, fly in a horde, and annoy everyone else with your proclimations of uberness.
Step 4. Call the vets whiners and tell them to S T F U for pointing out your lack of abilities.
Step 5. Take ownership of gameplay by sheer numbers of mediocraty and indifference to skills as they are not needed in a horde.
You know what's funny? I had Biggamer doing Step 4 tonight in the MW arena, he had altitude and was talking crap about how I wouldn't climb up to him. Instead, I just flew level waiting for him to come down. When he did finally muster the courage to leave his perch, I quickly shot him down, only to have him pipe up on open channel calling me timid because I wouldn't fall for his rope tricks.
ack-ack
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I have the utmost respect for Dale and company.
Ditto No question I've changed in response to my environment, its inevitable. However I think the "unhappiness" here comes from an unwillingness to continue to adapt. The aspects of the game I love are being constantly eroded. So in the end it seems your left with a choice of extremes. Either join the herd and fly double superior planes vs over matched guys who you still respect for flying against the numbers, fly double superior planes against the numbers and use the green guys as bait and decoys or continue to fly "old school" against ever increasing odds and get your brains beat out. You can only get killed so many times by the "nth guy in" before it grates on you. I think thats where I finally went A-20/SBD. I guess in the end its a statement of some kind that tried to say "look at all your missing by not even trying to scratch the surface".
Well put.
I offered my limited teaching abilities to a member of a large squad on this thread and recently he took advantage of it.
The results were dramatic, this guy was not only cordial but he also was a sponge and went from being a target drone to a decent stick in a slow stall fight. I really welcome the chance to show him more, not only because both of us enjoyed ourselves but also because I know I am giving back to the game, in some small manner.
:aok :aok :aok :aok and :aok
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I didn't read everyone's replys but thought I'd interject.
I've started playing AW in June of '96, moved on to AWII then AWIII then AHI then AHII so I've been playing with an active account for 12 1/2 years now.
Cherry picking, hoarding, vulching, griefing, shade vulching, spying and everything else that happens today have been happening from the beginning although I think the pace of each of these has picked up a bit. What's different today is that the community is much larger. In the old days we all pretty much knew one another. Now I rarely know who it is I killed or got killed by. That anonimity in and of itself allows people the freedom to act as they wish which may be quite dweebish because they really have no reputation at stake. Being one dweeb in a community of thousands is a lot different than being a dweeb in a community of hundreds.
In the old days, in a smaller game with fewer people, I'd get into at least a few heart pounding fights every day. Unless you were at the furball they were mostly one on one, one on two or one on three max. Now I'm lucky to find this once a week. Getting constantly ganged by the new era players or flying in the hoard don't fit my tastes or desires. Over the past year or so I started playing for score just to find a new challenge because finding a fair fight against a decent opponent is a lot more difficult than it used to be.
When I first started I played every minute that I could. I couldn't wait to get my next chance to log on and play. Lately I log on and look at the map and sit in the tower, fly one sortie and log off. Sometimes when I have a day off and I know it's going to be a free day I look forward to spending the whole day playing only to log on, fly a few sorties and log back off. I recently took a full week off while I was at home every night... something I couldn't have imagined in the past and the longer I stayed away the less I cared about logging back on. Burn out, loss of interest, whatever it is it causes me to play less.
Back in the AW days you knew what you were going to get. Two maps (Europe and Pacific) with reflective plane sets in relaxed realism and full realism plus WWI and Korea. There was little development and virtually no changes in the game itself. While HT has done a good job of development overall (far superior to AW) he has also made exceedingly bad decisions that have driven players away. ENY, Splitting the LWMA, the "thin blue line" experiment (almost lost me for good on that one), arena caps and responding to BBs whines (star wars ack, getting rid of big maps, EZ mode bomb calibration, and the list goes on) among others. Some of these are not insignificant changes and each one influences gameplay and not always for the better. I guess each change improved HT's subscription numbers and I'm sure he doesn't care if the money comes from old timers or n00bs.
I really don't play any other computer games anymore (well, a few but not very often). I've been getting closer and closer to calling it quits over the past year but I keep hanging on looking for that one good fight. Really, there is nothing better than a heart pounding, sweaty handed "fair" fight. You just don't find many of those anymore. I'm still here (although playing less). We'll see how things go.
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Squeekers are a PITA but it's an online game, what do you expect?
I think a lot of old timers move on for the same reason a lot of not old timers move on, it no longer holds their interest. One day you wake up and say "Geez, I could be doing something a lot better with my life than this" and poof! gone. Happy trails to them.
Nothing wrong with the game, it's still worth $15.95 a month. Have a cookie and lighten up Francis.
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Murdr,
I have the utmost respect for Dale and company. No question I've changed in response to my environment, its inevitable. However I think the "unhappiness" here comes from an unwillingness to continue to adapt. The aspects of the game I love are being constantly eroded. So in the end it seems your left with a choice of extremes. Either join the herd and fly double superior planes vs over matched guys who you still respect for flying against the numbers, fly double superior planes against the numbers and use the green guys as bait and decoys or continue to fly "old school" against ever increasing odds and get your brains beat out. You can only get killed so many times by the "nth guy in" before it grates on you. I think thats where I finally went A-20/SBD. I guess in the end its a statement of some kind that tried to say "look at all your missing by not even trying to scratch the surface".
What I dont understand is why you cant have a "tactical arena" in addition to the current one. No formations, no 4 engine bombers, variable plane set by field, increasing toughness for capture as you move further to "the rear" etc.. I also suggested a historic (by country) revolving plane set (again tactical). My thought is that Japan, Russia, England would be a good match up to start.
That's pretty much why I left. And why each time I come back, I last exponentially shorter amounts of time.
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I guess each change improved HT's subscription numbers and I'm sure he doesn't care if the money comes from old timers or n00bs.
kinda looks that way doesn't it, CT being shelved was a huge kick in the balls too its development was clearly aimed at a different type of player and its being scrapped is an admission by HTC that the player type exists but isn't were the moneys at.
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I've only played since '04. Flayed1 got me hooked. We played a lot back in the day. Now, Flayed1 and I now typically play on weekends off and on, especially when we have a little booze. I do miss how proficient I was in my favorite fighters, the Yak9u & 9T. I used to run a lot of Jug and bomber missions. Not so much anymore unless I get asked.
My perception is most likely inaccurate, but nonetheless I see a lot of the new player base as less patient and less interested in tactics that work in the main arenas. Usually if I post a mission now, the vets that are on are the ones that know what's going on. They are becoming fewer. I get asked by more players these days "why are we upping from so-&-so base?", and get some complaints. I typically tell them "Because WE NEED ALT to make this happen. If you don't like it, don't join." It seems some have difficulty seeing the fun that would eventually happen even at high alt (the great fights that do occur even at 20K).
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After a few years a player stays for his friends.
All the silliness about codes and honor is a smokescreen.
It is very simple. Good squadrons keep players longer than an individual will stay on his own.
I've seen it firsthand.
I'm only here because of friends I've had for years. If my squadron didn't exist I would be gone.
Squadron membership (and player accounts) are directly proportional to the level of participation of the squadron if the members have been flying online for more than 5 years. My squadron suffered a major blow in active membership when we stopped participating in events (FSO). When we had an active effort to get guys out every week for an organized sortie participation was much higher than it is now.
Aces High suffers from a peculiar malady in that the community actively discourages squadron level operations.
There is a weird fascination with some mythical code of honor with regards to 1 v 1 fights in a MMOG.
Members of the Training Corps are in this thread specifically decrying the sound tactics taught to fighter pilots the world over.
1 v 1 is the basic level of aerial combat. It is not the highest level of skill. Competence in the 1 v 1 is only the starting point. The highest level of achievement in aerial combat is competence in the many versus many environment, especially when there is a mission goal to be performed.
Folks who never progress past the 1 v 1 stage quickly lose interest unless they become part of a team and progress past the myth of the 1 v 1.
There is no greater thrill for a neophyte than to fly a team work sortie against an enemy flying as a team and to survive. There is no greater thrill for someone with 30,000 online kills to lead a team work sortie and accomplish the mission and bring everyone home alive. I'm not talking about NOE sneaking around. I'm talking about large squadrons going against large squadrons in air to air engagements.
I've fought 20 versus 20 engagements above 25,000 feet with neither side gaining a kill in a 20 minute engagement in a Main Arena environment.
I've flown 3 hour bomber escort sorties and watched wave after wave of luftwaffe scream through the bomber box in events.
I've been in a 190 screaming through the box in formation guns blazing.
Thats the stuff that keeps people coming back for more.
The endless carping about "hording, cherry picking, ganging, alt monkey, codes of honor, respect my 1 v 1" is what drives people away.
People want to belong. They want to be a part of a team working together. When they can't find that they go away once the thrill of the kill wears off.
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I for one, am not "burnt out". I love this game. The challenge is still there. Even with all of the changes HTC has made over the years its still the best, bar none WWII flight sim around. The variety of things to do is pretty good. Fights can still be had. The day before the fight I posted about the bish, I ran into a group of 7-8 guys trying to take a base. We had 5-6 guys defending and the fun lasted almost an hour. They showed some honor, and played the game as well as the defenders did. So for me burn out isn't a problem.
For those who are posting and saying "it isn't that bad."" I've played a couple years and its about the same". If you could build a chart that showed how the "poor game play" has built over the years it would show a steady climb for years then level off at the top for the last couple of years. So those that have been here a few years only know this type of game play, it already was poor when they started. Your basing your opinion on the rubble that is left, where us oldtimers try to bring back the buildings the was what the rubble was made from.
Dawger, HTC doesn't try to stop squad and squad ops, nor do I think would the oldtimers. Todays squads are made up of score mongers, or skillless people who MUST fight in a horde because they couldn't get past the first merge in a fight by them selves. Todays squads are made up of people who want it now, who don't want to spend the time to learn how to fight at 20k, or how to organize a big mission with way points and rendezvous. You didn't see the days here that had high alt missions that took hours to run, the fights that were created to take just a single base.
There is nothing wrong with this game, but there is something wrong with a large portion of the population. Too many people come in looking for short cuts, and how to cut corners. The new guys come in and see this and figure that what I have to do to keep up, so they take the short cuts. All of this just brings on more and more poor play.
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After a few years a player stays for his friends.
All the silliness about codes and honor is a smokescreen.
It is very simple. Good squadrons keep players longer than an individual will stay on his own.
I've seen it firsthand.
I'm only here because of friends I've had for years. If my squadron didn't exist I would be gone.
Squadron membership (and player accounts) are directly proportional to the level of participation of the squadron if the members have been flying online for more than 5 years. My squadron suffered a major blow in active membership when we stopped participating in events (FSO). When we had an active effort to get guys out every week for an organized sortie participation was much higher than it is now.
Aces High suffers from a peculiar malady in that the community actively discourages squadron level operations.
There is a weird fascination with some mythical code of honor with regards to 1 v 1 fights in a MMOG.
Members of the Training Corps are in this thread specifically decrying the sound tactics taught to fighter pilots the world over.
1 v 1 is the basic level of aerial combat. It is not the highest level of skill. Competence in the 1 v 1 is only the starting point. The highest level of achievement in aerial combat is competence in the many versus many environment, especially when there is a mission goal to be performed.
Folks who never progress past the 1 v 1 stage quickly lose interest unless they become part of a team and progress past the myth of the 1 v 1.
There is no greater thrill for a neophyte than to fly a team work sortie against an enemy flying as a team and to survive. There is no greater thrill for someone with 30,000 online kills to lead a team work sortie and accomplish the mission and bring everyone home alive. I'm not talking about NOE sneaking around. I'm talking about large squadrons going against large squadrons in air to air engagements.
I've fought 20 versus 20 engagements above 25,000 feet with neither side gaining a kill in a 20 minute engagement in a Main Arena environment.
I've flown 3 hour bomber escort sorties and watched wave after wave of luftwaffe scream through the bomber box in events.
I've been in a 190 screaming through the box in formation guns blazing.
Thats the stuff that keeps people coming back for more.
The endless carping about "hording, cherry picking, ganging, alt monkey, codes of honor, respect my 1 v 1" is what drives people away.
People want to belong. They want to be a part of a team working together. When they can't find that they go away once the thrill of the kill wears off.
Well said dwgr!
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one of my MD's buzz words is "Churn"
Whilst beloved members of the community quit or leave some old members return to play again. The old flame never truly goes out unless they do actually pass away. :salute
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I just came back from a 6 month break from AH. I never cancelled my account as I don't see 15 bucks a month and diminishing interest in this game
any different than any other hobby I have. I knew when I took the break that I would be back because at the end of the day AH is still the best at what it does.
Most of the guys leaving will be back. Maybe some never left just did a name change and are enjoying a little quiet time on-line.
If I could change anything it would be to have two of the arena's have smaller maps so it didn't take 10 minutes to fly to the fight.
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For those who are posting and saying "it isn't that bad."" I've played a couple years and its about the same". If you could build a chart that showed how the "poor game play" has built over the years it would show a steady climb for years then level off at the top for the last couple of years. So those that have been here a few years only know this type of game play, it already was poor when they started. Your basing your opinion on the rubble that is left, where us oldtimers try to bring back the buildings the was what the rubble was made from.
I agree, and this is what is missing form HiTech's steps.
People loose interest when the development slows down.
That's why I, and the whole squadron of mine, quit a couple of years ago ... maybe three.
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I think a lot of people who leave are burnt out and declare other reasons ad-hoc; especially the "gameplay in decline" type of reasons. Human psychology is surreptitious like that.
Holy Crap! Your a psychologist too!?!?!?! [/sarcasm]
All the answers I've seen from people I'd truly consider vets or old timers seem to indicate that the "burn out" isn't the biggest reason or that perhaps there is something accelerating or worsening the "burn out" effect.
...Squadron membership (and player accounts) are directly proportional to the level of participation of the squadron if the members have been flying online for more than 5 years. My squadron suffered a major blow in active membership when we stopped participating in events (FSO). When we had an active effort to get guys out every week for an organized sortie participation was much higher than it is now...
And for all that typing the answer to all our problems is "join a squadron"? After a few years of play I can honestly say that I'd only enjoy joining about 1 out of 10 or so of the active squadrons in the game.
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Members of the Training Corps are in this thread specifically decrying the sound tactics taught to fighter pilots the world over.
By all means, pull quotes from this thread specifically to back up your comment.
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All the answers I've seen from people I'd truly consider vets or old timers seem to indicate that the "burn out" isn't the biggest reason or that perhaps there is something accelerating or worsening the "burn out" effect.
Yes, that is what they say. They have chosen to interpret their frustration as "gameplay decline." It's almost axiomatic that the last place people look for the cause of their frustration is in themselves, and will frequently externalize the problems they create.
All this is not to say that there are no gameplay issues that need addressing, but the image of a once golden pasture of honorable 1vs1 combat is not only illusory, but also counter to what air combat is in the non-virtual world. This isn't 1916, ya know...it's 1945. ;)
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Yes, that is what they say. They have chosen to interpret their frustration as "gameplay decline." It's almost axiomatic that the last place people look for the cause of their frustration is in themselves, and will frequently externalize the problems they create.
All this is not to say that there are no gameplay issues that need addressing, but the image of a once golden pasture of honorable 1vs1 combat is not only illusory, but also counter to what air combat is in the non-virtual world. This isn't 1916, ya know...it's 1945. ;)
Wow, seriously your a psychologist?????!?!?! [/i'm running low on sarcasm here]
Please stop pretending that you can read their minds.
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All this is not to say that there are no gameplay issues that need addressing, but the image of a once golden pasture of honorable 1vs1 combat is not only illusory, but also counter to what air combat is in the non-virtual world. This isn't 1916, ya know...it's 1945. ;)
I get the distinct impression you are not reading posts, because I did not see the ones you are describing.
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Yes, that is what they say. They have chosen to interpret their frustration as "gameplay decline." It's almost axiomatic that the last place people look for the cause of their frustration is in themselves, and will frequently externalize the problems they create.
All this is not to say that there are no gameplay issues that need addressing, but the image of a once golden pasture of honorable 1vs1 combat is not only illusory, but also counter to what air combat is in the non-virtual world. This isn't 1916, ya know...it's 1945. ;)
Well thank God thats cleared up! I have clearly been the victim of some major hallucinations!!! :uhoh
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Let me count the ways.
Lack of improving game play.(I got my p-39, i want and need nothing else)
Lack of updating graphics,sounds and more content.(The newer damage effects keep me happy, sound packs do the same.)
Lack of $ from christmas.(Me)
Lack of time due to children.(Me)
It go's on and on, but you cant blame HTC or the community for anything, as people will and have always done whatever they want, doubly so when it comes to there money. We come... we go, a new plane gets added, or something gets changed/enhanced, and people come back, only to become bored again later (for WHATEVER reason) then poof, off they go.
HTC makes something, and tadaaa, back again.
Something really needs to be done to push aceshigh2 into a more "simulated" world, for one thing, one engine sound for every fighter plane by -default- is just a big no no. Trying to keep the game download small now,should be the last priority.
Also holding back the eye candy for the few small group of people who dont have computers good enough to run them is downright wrong. Imagine if other game companys had used that same mindset in life "oh sorry we cant add reflective water because 10% of the gaming community cant support it, never mind it could be a option. partical effect's? pssh..in your dreams buddy."
ooopse,ranting..sorry..away i go!
Edit:Im not bored dang it, im broke. ;)
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Because we are bored? Over 5 years of the same game can get boring you know. You guys are right. The game play has not changed. It was not any different in AH1. What was different was the challenge and it was new. At the beginning there was a challenge. After 5 or 6 years there is non. Its like everything else. A little change would have helped keep people interested but as long as new guys keep signing up, that is not an issue
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All this is not to say that there are no gameplay issues that need addressing, but the image of a once golden pasture of honorable 1vs1 combat is not only illusory, but also counter to what air combat is in the non-virtual world. This isn't 1916, ya know...it's 1945. ;)
It also isn't a war. It's a game, more akin to a sport.
You've probably placed your finger on the issue, though. More and more people are playing it as if it were a war. Hording, ganging, alt-monkeying, picking, vulching, and flying the most superior aircraft are all great tactics in a real war, and they are great ways to win the war in AH2. That doesn't make it fun - unless you get some sort of real thrill from swarming a base or being one of four guys chasing an enemy (and I guess it's true that many people do). Note that real wars aren't fun, either.
As for Dawger's remarks, I disagree with virtually all of them. While there are plenty of people who live for the cameraderie of squad operations, there are also plenty more who live for the game itself. I suspect these are the vets who are leaving; those who stay simply to be among friends are still among friends and objectively shouldn't care very much how the game changes - except as those changes affect squad operations (I imagine that they are the ones who complain most about the arena splits). You can belittle people's interest in mastering air combat skills and employing those skills in mock air combat, but you won't answer the question of why the vets are leaving.
- oldman
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... It's almost axiomatic that the last place people look for the cause of their frustration is in themselves, and will frequently externalize the problems they create ...
Nhaa, I dont have to look into myself, its enough to look at some 8 years old graphics and arenas split to get frustrated :rofl
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Dwager I couldnt disagree with you more. The squad I fly with has a number of the best "winging pairs" in the game (as recognized by others not us). I've seen them land literally hundreds of kills without a loss. As a group of 6 or so they could routinely land 50+ kills per sortie with 100% RTB for the group repeatedly. Not one of those guys is a regular in any of the MA's anymore...most dont even fly much any more. What your describing is in fact the lowest common denominator of flying. The simple reality is that to anyone with reasonable experience what you describe is utterly boring. I'll contrast that with the "best" flying experience of my 15+ years of online experience. I had the chance to fly as a scout in the relatively recent Rangoon scenario, this gave me the ability to use my reasonably strong individual skills in a 1 on 1 context (I'd say I'm a solid 2nd tier stick) with in the frame work of a defined mission. This balanced my mandate to accomplish specific tasks with my individual decision making in a one on many combat environment. I completely agree that within the context of a scenario or FSO type event that this "higher level" of flying does exist...but in the MA arenas this is a joke.
http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/Rangoon/
I included the link to my rangoon clips for anyone interested in scenarios or "SA" oriented flying in a true tasking environment. Without a mission objective to balance SA there is no real challenge. Anyone can land 10 kills in the AH arena's at any time with minimal skill...
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Anyone can land 10 kills in the AH arena's at any time with minimal skill...
This is vastly exaggerated. Or your definition of "minimal" skill is a very personal one ;)
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This is vastly exaggerated. Or your definition of "minimal" skill is a very personal one ;)
I probably "host" 3-4 different guys a month on average. Obviously most have a specific interest in "dog fighting" and/or gaining a better understanding of what they see me do in an A-20, SBD or other plane. As conversation evolves it always goes back to basic fundamentals and I end up flying a hop in their plane of choice. I might have a film of the last one, it was a G2 hop in MWA, we were furballing between 22 and 25 with the SAPP guys on one side and the blue knights on the other so you had a sprinkling of very good sticks on both sides. I was never over 10k often under 5k and mostly out numbered. At one point I was locked in with shane in a higher F4 and explaining how I was using a 2 circle fight to fend him off while still looking for targets. One tough concept for many is that often your fighting based on pilot as much as plane and position. Now normally I'd eagerly tangle with shane (and more often then not lose) but here the goal was to live not joust. It got a couple of comments on 200 but so be it. We ended up with 4 kills and a 5th shot up but either ditched or still flying if I recall.
Invariably the comments are identical, they are amazed how "easy it is", "wow i'd never have done that", "I never saw that shot"...the issues are conceptual for most. what surprises most people is that lack of ACM involved. A good MA hop flown in that manner almost never has a turn of over 270 degrees at any time in the fight on offense or defense. The real decisions are made prior to engagement not during the fight itself. The issue is to avoid any fair engagement, attack with the advantage and reposition to avoid being at a disadvantage. Basically its boring and after the initial thrill of little interest, but its an essential building block to progress further. Now the number is random and would require multiple hops. It's also gunnery and circumstance dependent, you can always run into a good stick or get unlucky ( a single ping to the radiator on a pony for example) if you push things. There is lies the rub, to really enjoy the game IMO you need to push your limits, the planes capability and the circumstances and that involves getting waxed a lot. The reality is that more and more of the player base is self limited to the above so the truly fun fights are diminishing and more and more often end via a pick...I've actually had a few recently where both of us got picked by higher planes that swooped us vs engaging each other :O
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Technically the goal of the game is to take bases, what's wrong with that?
Because too many people believe the statement quoted here, and follow the philosophy that the easiest way to do this is to avoid fighting other people.
Regards,
Hammer
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Because too many people believe the statement quoted here, and follow the philosophy that the easiest way to do this is to avoid fighting other people.
Regards,
Hammer
So few words yet right to the heart of the issue.
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I think the game is better than ever. I don't know why they are leaving. Only they can tell you that. Personally the only thing that gets me depressed are these threads that constantly bash the game. I have the utmost confidence in Hitech that any improprieties will be resolved and that the game will continually be evolved. When I get bored or when I get a bad attitude I take a break. When I come back it's all new to me. In spite of all that hullabaloo raised over the last couple of months over about everything Bish are still Bish, Rooks are still Rooks, and Knits are still Knits.
Well said Getback :salute
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No, 420, I am not a professional psychologist, but I do consider myself an attentive student of human nature. ;)
For my part, I agree that too many people put a greater priority on sneaking bases than fighting, but I put more of the blame for that on game mechanics and large maps. From what I can remember in Warbirds there wasn't so much base sneaking because the maps were much, much smaller. Some of the maps we have in AH are truly enormous. A sequential capture system has to be put in place to prevent sneaking on the large maps.
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No, 420, I am not a professional psychologist, but I do consider myself an attentive student of human nature. ;)
... and, he slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night??? :D
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... and, he slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night??? :D
:rofl
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The real key here is the movement from a game based on air combat to a game based on other factors. Originally the "war" framed the fighting, now fighting is just an inconvenience on the way to "winning". Real wars are won by attrition and numbers not the skill of the individual combatants, as the game moves toward a truer simulation of war this is the reality.
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I got into AH about a year and half ago, and it was because of a love for the WWII aviation genre. The chance to fly the planes that I played with when I was a kid. How cool is that? :rock It is still awesome every time I login. :aok Is it possible that some of these folks have lost that wonder or amazement?
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A sequential capture system has to be put in place to prevent sneaking on the large maps.
Already been done. I'm not sure why that mechanic fell by the wayside.
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A sequential capture system has to be put in place to prevent sneaking on the large maps.
Why?
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Why?
So the horde monkies don't just move to an empty part of the map when some resistance pops up.
Regards,
Hammer
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As I recall, the sequential capture system just seemed to stall everything. Maybe it was the way it was implemented, and maybe it's just a difficult thing to implement at all.
Conceptually, though, I see a major problem with this -- while sequential capture would prevent sneaks and almost eliminate steamrolling hordes (that would have to fight each other), wouldn't it also INCREASE the "no progress, just attrition" effect? Slamming huge numbers into each other would almost guarantee you'd NEVER get troops through....everyone base fighter's attention would be focused in just one place, it seems to me. What's more, the guys hiding in hordes would find even more "success" since it would be almost impossible to catch them away from some high alt friendly.
Not sure such a change would solve anything.
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So the horde monkies don't just move to an empty part of the map when some resistance pops up.
Regards,
Hammer
JUST follow em.
when i was with the HG, and we used to fly in EW, there was one other main squadron in there. sometimes they stayed and fought....others they went to an undefended base. we simply followed them to their new target. always made for good fight...both in the air and on the ground.
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This is vastly exaggerated. Or your definition of "minimal" skill is a very personal one ;)
Lusche,
I couldn't find the clip I wanted, I'm guessing that I deleted it after sending it but here is another similar clip with another observer the same weekend. From my perspective as a former trainer I think the hardest aspect for me was trying to actually understand what the "trainee" was seeing/thinking and then "re-engineering" [for lack of a better term] the feedback loop. Sometimes the person didn't "see" it right other times they had a faulty understanding of how to respond or lacked an understanding of cause and effect. In the end I found that I could often "drill down" to a point where certain concepts could be tested and often a light bulb would go on. I'd say the biggest area of confusion was specific to the role of ACM and "dogfighting" as it related to flying for survival/score. The simple reality is that only the guy dogfighting is the guy dieing. You as the predator are simply moving from 1 target to the next. If you end up in a prolonged engagement not totally in your control you made a mistake. Your ACM skills only exist as an insurance policy...
http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/film137.ahf
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JUST follow em....
You're allowed to do that? :O :D
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I don't think sequential capture has to mean only one base at a time. Rather, there might be 3-4 bases that could be captured along the front-line to spread out the action a bit; but no more searching the map for bases flashing in the most isolated corners of the map.
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I don't think sequential capture has to mean only one base at a time. Rather, there might be 3-4 bases that could be captured along the front-line to spread out the action a bit; but no more searching the map for bases flashing in the most isolated corners of the map.
I do like this sequential capture idea, but as you said it does need to be spread over more than just a front or two(to avoid apocalyptic proportioned battles).
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They died every way, they killed every way and they saw all there is to see. Personally, I found myself yawnin on my first takeoff of the day too many times to pay for it. Repetitive game play is just going to happen and if you can't find other aspects of the game to keep you hooked then your done.
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I've been playing this type of game online since June of 97, starting with AWII. The mechanics of game-play between then and now isn't really all that different. AH is technically far superior to any other online game of the genre out there, but it remains the same old style of game - albeit with better physics/flight/gunnery/damage models, etc. But there are two major differences between AH and what AW was: the level of anonymity in the games and the capability for pulling off a head-on shot. When I log on I don't recognize many of the CPIDs I see on the roster, in AW I did. In the AW arenas, with their regular populations you quickly got to the point of logging in looking forward to playing with and against other players. AH doesn't have that for the larger population. To a large degree you don't know, or sometimes even know of, the player you're engaged with or winging with so that other player becomes more a play-thing than another player. The HO, well that capability in AH makes the ho-run possible and that game-play style breeds contempt for those who value the fight over the kill - to players who play for the fight it's more of an insult than a contest.
IMO the anonymity fix is easy - fix the size of the arenas and let time do its thing. There'll be lots of whining and moaning at first but I'll bet once the initial raft of "Screw it I quit" posts is over and players get a chance to get to know the other players in their home arenas that fairly stable communities grow around those arenas. Community is what keeps players around, without it any game degenerates into a repetitive activity after a while.
The ho-run is a non-starter. HTC has already made that decision and unless they change their minds it's here to stay.
On the whole, AH is a good game. I still have fun playing it. Kudo's to HTC for their accomplishments with the game - there are many - but there's no such thing as something that can't be improved upon.
<EDIT>
HTC has proven over time that no matter how much you tweak game-play (fm improvements, capture models, whathaveyou) you won't impact on what really makes an online game tick - it's community.
</EDIT>
My 0.02
asw
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Ive onl been playing and paying for a year, but Ive popped in and out ever since warbirds, always kept an eye on the game.
to me it seems the flight model is a lot lower fidelity than it was way back. that may entirely be my perspective, bit just seems there is less "feel" to the game now... the sharp corners have been shaved off.. auto take off, auto combat trip, stall limiter, clipboard map with arrow pointing where you are going...
You dont have to know how to take off, hold level, navigate.. nothing..
aircraft (all of them) seem way to stable... there is no wind.. for me it takes the FLYING aspect almost out the game.. it seems less like a combat flight sim and more like a First Person Shooter with airplanes..
my take probably doesn't make sense, probably shouldn't, im just trying to explain my take which is hard.
what irks me more, is that people EXPECT this crap..
example..
take the clipboard map.. that shows where you are and what direction you are facing.. get rid of the little plane icon.. and replace it with a dot..
you still know exactly where you are.. but you have to look at your compass to determine your direction.. SIMPLE.. guess what, people would piss and cry in droves.. that they have to go through all the trouble at looking at a instrument to see what direction they are facing.
I remember a time when bomb craters would damage your landing gear if you drove through them at speed... I can only imagine what caused that to be nerfed.. but let me guess.
"oh no, there is a bomb crater in the runway, I actually have to make an effort to take off.. that sucks, im not paying to have take off, im paying to pwn n00bs!!" "how am I supposed to spawn out and die over and over again several times a minute if I have to drive around this dang crater! this sucks!!"
the you get into stick stirring, and unrealistic manuevers that in no way shape or form could be pulled off by anyone EVER... you come in chasing a guy both of you doing over 400mph and out of nowhere he slams nose down pulling probably -10Gs gimme a break.. his eyeballs would pop out of his head, he would look like the damn cookie monster.. if that doesn't throw here comes the aircraft rendition of thriller.. time for us to flop up and down roll in a symphony of mindless spastic undulations.. its not hard to counter, but thats not the point, that crap shouldn't even be possible.
the list goes on, some things bother different folks more than others... for mer, personally no one of these things ive mentioned are in and of themselves "deal breakers" but when you deal with them all together, it really sullys the game play (for me). which is why I all too often find myself logging on, flying 1 maybe 2 sorts.. and then logging off..
nothing.. well few things would make me happier that if all the AUTO crap was gone.. from autakeoff to auto trim.. to fly the airplane you have to FLY the airplane..
but that will never happen? why.. you see it on the text every day
"how do I start my engine"
"go to the TA" "read the website"
"i dont wanna, just tell me"
"how do I put up my gear"
"go to the TA, read the website"
these people, they aren't necessary idiots.. some are.. but mostly they just don't want to make any EFFORT to do.. ANYTHING.. that's just society in general.. everyone wants things given, but doesent want to earn them. Im sure many of these crutches built in the game are specifically to cater to these people who want instant gratification with not effort put forth on their part.. too bad it carries such a diluting factor, because others have to put up with them.
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IMO the anonymity fix is easy - fix the size of the arenas and let time do its thing. There'll be lots of whining and moaning at first but I'll bet once the initial raft of "Screw it I quit" posts is over and players get a chance to get to know the other players in their home arenas that fairly stable communities grow around those arenas. Community is what keeps players around, without it any game degenerates into a repetitive activity after a while.
IMO the largest road block to this is that payers can choose from arenas with limited choices, and two arenas with all choices availible. It's a no brainer that everyone will go where all choices are availible (open planeset). I have said since the week of the arena splits that I don't see how the concept of players finding a "home arena" is possible with unique arena setups along side the same old open plane set arenas.
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IMO the largest road block to this is that payers can choose from arenas with limited choices, and two arenas with all choices availible. It's a no brainer that everyone will go where all choices are availible (open planeset). I have said since the week of the arena splits that I don't see how the concept of players finding a "home arena" is possible with unique arena setups along side the same old open plane set arenas.
I agree.
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While I have read most of the thread I don't think any of the "so called" reasons for quiting are problems in the arena.
I think some of the games pilots either get lazy {I want a quick fight types} or just lose intrest in the game. I don't see as many old guys as I used to, but there still here. What is new, or was is the voice comms. With voice you can
imagine a whole new perspective on the pilot you have never met.
Nothing has changed!
Got me thinking and I went off on the internets <G> looking for 1 thing and I found something else usual... but I thought I would share.
This is an article from 1997 and an interview w/the our 4thFG CO until a few months ago.. Boozer.
Cheating In Air Warrior..?
Allegations of cheating by some of RR1's top scoring pilots is being whispered and occasionally shouted by many Air Warriors in RR1 ETO. Controversy is not uncommon in RR1 ETO. Past incidents of "top scorers" fragging opponents in order to keep a lead on the kill board are common knowledge amongst AW pilots. The latest series of allegations are being leveled against RR1's most notorious point grabbers. Giving vent to many longtime animosities held by veteran players against "point dweebs".
Sources have revealed that the current allegations focus on three or more individuals that are well known in RR1 as longtime point hounds. These individuals are being accused of setting up patsy kills to pad their scores. These revelations center on the "fact" that they are having friends run enemy accounts which the point hounds continually kill or are running two computers at the same time to allow the point hounds primary account to gain points by vulching themselves.
Vulching is always a controversial topic in Air Warrior. Many pilots defend the practice of killing those dweebs who are "dumb" enough to take off from airfields that are CAPped by enemy aircraft; however, no pilots are defending the practice of Vulching one's self or a friend to gain points. A few pilots in RR1 have built a reputation as vulchers with witty macros to celebrate the vulch and unlike the point hounds are respected members of RR1. Vulching is an effective method of gaining points in that it places the vulcher at very little risk by coming into a fight with superior energy over the opponent who is just taking off. Most point hounds are notorious for their vulching and limited flight area centering around a82/b85; however, these current allegations also focus on recent defectors in both B-Land and C-Land as well as the VOD crowd :D :rock.
Air Warrior is a community with a set of standards which focus on "fair play". Pilots either choose to follow or reject the standards. The arenas are essentially self-policing with some pilots setting examples and urging others to follow a respectable path. The standards are largely a set of customs that are not always followed, but generally are accepted (ie. not interfering in arranged fights, etc.). Often pilots allow others that they commonly fight who are low on ammo, fuel, or badly damaged to RTB. This is a development of courtesy that is largely dependent upon the pilots involved and when done the pilot expects the same courtesy to be extended to them by their opposition. There is a sense that these three pilots have violated the sense of "fair play" which is so necessary for the enjoyment of the game. Cheating ruins the game for everyone involved, even those that do not fly for points. A sense of irritation is felt by many regulars in RR1 as to this alleged cheating; cheaters are not liked and many are not hesitating to use the word Cheat in terming these individuals alleged actions.
This controversy continues another long-running debate over the pursuit of points. A camp of pilots, usually veteran Air Warriors, rail against the usage of points as a measure of pilot excellence. In the opposition, is a group of mostly new pilots and a few veteran pilots that view score in Air Warrior as analogous to runs in baseball; they see pilot score as something of which to be proud. A new subset of this argument is developing over the issue of Kill/Death ratio. A long running counter claim to the points crowd was that a good K/D ratio is a much better indicator of a pilot than simply points because points totals can be raised with hours and hours of play. "Points Dweeb" has been the long running title of derision for those that worship points and now "K/D Dweeb" is being used in much the same way. K/D dweebs focus so much on this that they become so overly cautious as to refuse to engage unless the terms are so heavily in their advantage and refuse to engage on equal terms. Many K/D dweebs are becoming notorious for giving new meaning to the term alt monkey.
The allegations of cheating by point hounds give further proof to the arguments against the usage of points as a measure of pilot ability. The environment in RR1, centered so heavily on respect between pilots, will suffer from these allegations; unfortunately, the level of macro usage, arrogance, and all around dweeb-ery necessitate that all Air Warriors attempt to set a better example or face having all of the fun squeezed from the game. It is incumbent upon the pilots in RR1 ETO to make known to all that they will not tolerate cheating or any incarnation of dweeb-ery and this current situation is certainly providing the opportunity.
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In this section, we got the chance to talk to a real AW vet. Boozer is an veteran pilot who has been playing since DOS days. He was generous enough to give us a few minutes out of his flight time for this interview. The interview was setup by Vagabond. The interview was conducted by Vagabond and Pace
. FB: How long have you been playing AW?
Boozer: Five years.
FB: That's back in the DOS days eh?
Boozer: Yeah, I saw a cool add in Computer Gaming for it on Genie. Signed on the next day.
FB: (Laughing) How does the quality of pilots compare from then to now in general?
Boozer: Well half of them still play, but the talent has definitely been watered down with the numbers that fly today.
FB: And I'm sure the talk has increased greatly.
Boozer: The "chatter" you mean?
FB: The "I'm the best", "No one can beat me" stuff.
Boozer: Yes, it's a neat thing for new guys and the kids that play
FB: Have you flown FR since day 1, or did you start somewhere else?
Boozer: Well, I flew 4 days in what was "half-time" back when I signed on. Full realism was still in beta, and, after I found it, I made it home.
FB: What are your "Planes of choice"?
Boozer: I prefer the Boom & Zoom planes, P-51, F4U, P-47...Well actually American BnZ’ers. Don't care much for the FW.
FB: Have any particular memorable moments?
Boozer: Quite a few. There’s a few: Training under Grok, Flying a P-47 in the Eagle day 2 scenario with a Jug and getting 4 kills, Bigweek, and of course winging Moggy in Spitfires in a scenario.
FB: Speaking of Bigweek... How do you feel about AWII, as it compares to AW for Windows?
Boozer: Fantastic and Enormous, not much of a front-end deal, but the scenario terrain is wonderful, you can fly through the Eiffel Tower
FB: (Laughing)
Boozer: The thing is BIG and will make for some great events.
FB: It seems like Moggy is one of your major rivals... any others?
Boozer: Rival? (laughs), I don't rate.You want names of the same class of pilot? FB: Sure.
Boozer: HeeBee, Merch, Soup the dweeb, Mute, Popeye, Dragon, off the top of my head. There's another class just above us. Premier pilots are Ketchup, Stiletto, Rocketman, Twist, Moggy, and Sharkbait, just to name a few.
FB: Boozer...Any feelings towards squadrons, as a whole ?
Boozer: Squads are a great way to make good friends. People you really get attached to, even though you've never even seen them.
Boozer: Some of whom I would consider my "best pals" are online characters.
FB: Have you ever been in, or are you currently in a squadron?
Boozer: Yes, A longstanding group. The 4th Fighter Group, we emulate the WWII group out of Debden.
FB: What, in your opinion, makes a good pilot? Is there one skill that stands above the others?
Boozer: It's called "situational awareness" that ability to size up the situation and make your move accordingly. That's a broad skill that encompasses the entire arena down to your 2k private space. FB: What is the main thing new players need to work on?
Boozer: Brand new? Takeoff, landing, learning how his particular plane can perform. What you can and cannot do in that Yak, and then the standard maneuvers, yoyo's, loops, Immelmans, Split-S’.
FB: On the same subject, what is a good plane for a "Newbie" to start with?
Boozer: Depends on the arena they're in, but I’d have to say a Spitfire or 109 for ETO an the F6F for the PTO. Zero's are fun in the Pac, but a newbie will die fast.
FB: So are there any special tactics or advice you'd like to share that apply to the general populace of AW?
Boozer: You want secrets I've spent 5 years learning?!?
FB: Yes, but we'll settle for general advice.
Boozer: (Laughing) Get good control of your plane and know the condition of the fight. Never fly into battle climbing so hard that it's slowing you down. ALWAYS check behind you, every 15 seconds, check 6.
FB: How do you feel about AOL's dropping of AW4W and replacing it with AW2, which will be charged hourly?
Boozer: Well, you're asking an old "elite" guy that the AOL kids whine about. Me, I've used my regular AW budget to buy a top of the line computer. So, for me AOL's early marketing mistake was my gain.I dont expect any company to give anything away free, but they could be more forthcoming for the players.
FB: One more question before we let you go... Where did the handle come from?
Boozer: (Laughing), Wifey got mad one night and called me that long ago.
FB: (Laughing) Thanks for your time.
Boozer: Sure.
Furball Magazine would like to thank Boozer for taking the time to share some of his experience and his past with us.[F]
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/4089/issues.html
Interesting,
Fin
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Over-reaction first and foremost.
Video Games come and go, that's just how it is. People that have been playing for 10+ years have the right to find something else for entertainment. That is the nature of the beast.
And your point of view is what is common and is missing the point some of the old timers are leaving. Back in the day.... 1995-present online was about the community and not the game itself. I started in AW DOS but didn't have the funds to play onine on Genie but did when it went AW4W (windows) on AOL and a few other platforms, we even eventually had Mac platform players with us PC players. The community eventually got so big that the main message BBS was outside of the company and the BigWeek BBS was spawned and is still up today as far as I know. To us in the day... AW and now AH is not just a video game and those that treat it like it is are why there are so many of the old timers leaving!
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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BigWeek BBS
Thanx Doc u reminded me what I was looking for in the 1st place :lol :confused:
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From Bozers article
Air Warrior is a community with a set of standards which focus on "fair play". Pilots either choose to follow or reject the standards. The arenas are essentially self-policing with some pilots setting examples and urging others to follow a respectable path. The standards are largely a set of customs that are not always followed, but generally are accepted (ie. not interfering in arranged fights, etc.). Often pilots allow others that they commonly fight who are low on ammo, fuel, or badly damaged to RTB. This is a development of courtesy that is largely dependent upon the pilots involved and when done the pilot expects the same courtesy to be extended to them by their opposition.
There is an item that has been cited during this discussion. This is what is different in that the arena with too much anonymity has no community standards.
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Boozer: Rival? (laughs), I don't rate.You want names of the same class of pilot? FB: Sure.
Boozer: HeeBee, Merch, Soup the dweeb, Mute, Popeye, Dragon, off the top of my head. There's another class just above us. Premier pilots are Ketchup, Stiletto, Rocketman, Twist, Moggy, and Sharkbait, just to name a few.Fin
lol... Popeye was in my squad for a long time. There was someone else in my squad I can't remember his handle but it started with a Q... he was consistantly the best of all of us.
Moggy used to kick my a@@ although I did win on rare occasions.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
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Aces High suffers from a peculiar malady in that the community actively discourages squadron level operations.
I disagree. Or at least I disagree for my part. HTC has defined a squadron as 32 players. Many players have expanded on that definition to include as many wings of 32 that they can support. So we are no longer talking about squadron level operations. Instead we are talking about air wing level operations. This is fun in moderation, but it can have a negative impact on everyone elses gameplay when taken to the extreme. Yes there is a backlash over this issue. But I believe personally that squadron operations as defined by HTC is not discouraged.
1 v 1 is the basic level of aerial combat. It is not the highest level of skill. Competence in the 1 v 1 is only the starting point. The highest level of achievement in aerial combat is competence in the many versus many environment, especially when there is a mission goal to be performed.
I agree with this. But the observations seem to point to the idea of too many skiping past that basic competence level, and going straight to formations of equally incompetents duking it out or avoiding each other all together.
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lol... Popeye was in my squad for a long time. There was someone else in my squad I can't remember his handle but it started with a Q... he was consistantly the best of all of us.
Moggy used to kick my a@@ although I did win on rare occasions.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
During this period of time specifically Our sqd 168th NightStalkers were struggling with the move to AW2 being played in a different place, was the end of that sqd :frown: The names that popped for me are Mutonius of course he is still in the 4th. and Merch , that sucker could fly a FW better than any 1 at the time and RM in his f4u lookout and StinkBait :) hehe SB. Shaky was still in the sqd till it reformed recently.
I did not join the 4th until AH.
4th<----noob,
Fin
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IMO the largest road block to this is that payers can choose from arenas with limited choices, and two arenas with all choices availible. It's a no brainer that everyone will go where all choices are availible (open planeset). I have said since the week of the arena splits that I don't see how the concept of players finding a "home arena" is possible with unique arena setups along side the same old open plane set arenas.
I agree that the vast majority of players will gravitate to the full planeset arenas - that's pretty much what we see now with the blue and orange arenas. Given the choice they'll also go where the most people are. That pretty much means the early and mid war arenas will never be anything but side shows to the full planeset arenas, so I don't really see them being a block to players finding a home arena.
Cheers,
asw
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I agree that the vast majority of players will gravitate to the full planeset arenas - that's pretty much what we see now with the blue and orange arenas. Given the choice they'll also go where the most people are. That pretty much means the early and mid war arenas will never be anything but side shows to the full planeset arenas, so I don't really see them being a block to players finding a home arena.
Cheers,
asw
Change the word "block" to "undermine" if that communicates the point I was getting at any better. I re-read the reply and still see all of the components there. If you're in a squad and "the vast majority of players will gravitate to the full planeset arenas" your home is probably where they go. Like the majority, they are probably in the LW with the prefered terrain up. If you have limited play time, the "side show" arenas with very low numbers might not seem like a good option.
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What game play specifically? There is hardlyany REAL ACM combat for the most part in the AH..... Taking bases and vulching gets old quick........Now days you up and your lucky if you get any FIGHT at all..... Your either in the horde which leads to gang'in.... or your not the horde and your getting ganged.... There is no real fight or challenge...
Which leads to just crappy players with no skill....YOu never get into a fight more than 2 turns with out getting picked.... So players never learn any other ACM just HO and pick its all they know.....
They dont even know simple basic moves Like... Immelman beats flat turn..... flat turn beats split S
The two biggest problems in AH have to do with the "players" not maps or whatever else.........
1. ask before you leap into someone else fight... Show just a little respect for your fellow player......geeeezeee just a little...........
2. The most prolific mouths on the BBS are the biggest offenders of picking this game has to offer.... it does'nt matter if the player your fighing is 1 turn from kicking your butt they pick u any ways.... They have the least respect in the air of any of the players.
How do u expect a player to get any better when your picking them in the middle of a fight with someone else...... You cant all you can expect is them to come back with a faster plane.. and ho then run.... cause that what you just taught them....Acm dont work in here cause im going to pick you anyways.....
So game play slowly spirals down hill untill the guys with respect just leave...............
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JUST follow em.
when i was with the HG, and we used to fly in EW, there was one other main squadron in there. sometimes they stayed and fought....others they went to an undefended base. we simply followed them to their new target. always made for good fight...both in the air and on the ground.
BINGO!!!
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What's right or wrong with the game is far from graphic quality, flight models, etc. Guys who have been at it since Aw1 and the mid-nineties who get disgusted and quit owe it to current game-play, and the ever-increasing hording-"Quake High" mentality that Humble so accurately summarized. I'm trying to think of what AH could change in the big picture that would discourage folks from looking for the biggest friendly dar-bar (and preferably DARNED little red bars) and flying there, hoping to be one of 9 guys trying to out-ho the others for a kill on a spit I, but nuthin comes to mind. I stay because I like hanging out with my buddies as sort of a virtual bowling night, as well as the hope that my middling skills will somehow rocket upward after 14-odd years, perHAPS even enough to beat one of those 80th bastids in their 2-engine thingies :frown:
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but no more searching the map for bases flashing in the most isolated corners of the map.
Why? Its part of the game.
Keeps you on your toes, and if you notice it soon enough, POOF!!, great fight ensues.
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Why? Its part of the game.
Keeps you on your toes, and if you notice it soon enough, POOF!!, great fight ensues.
Negative. You up, kill a few, and they go off to find a different base to steal with no defense. I've hardly ever seen a good fight follow a failed NOE sneak.
The whole reason they are going NOE is to avoid a fight. It doesn't bother me much that it happens from time to time. But entire groups of people in game think they have mad "skillz" for doing it over and over again.
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Its funny that everyone has a theory, but they wont take the word of the people that don't play any longer :lol
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Its funny that everyone has a theory, but they wont take the word of the people that don't play any longer :lol
I know what Corky, Raptor, and a few other friends of mine have said. Most revolve not on the game as provided by HTC but on what the mindless masses do in it.
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Lately several old timers have put their planes up in the hanger for good. And a few others have said they're close to doing the same. This bothers me. I feel like the old guard is leaving in masses, taking with them skill and class that this game sorely needs.
Most of them say they don't like the way the game is turning. But what does that mean? Is it the large maps,split arenas,hordes,smack taking,hoing, running,toolshedding,vulching,and milking?
Is it all of those things,just one or a combination of things? Is it the negative vibes on these boards. The witch hunts and shade vulchers. Or has the game just run its' cotomato with them and they just want to move on.
I suspect they are tired of the gangs and the dogeatdog mentallity of the MA. Folks more worried about ranks and K/D or K/S. I wasn't around for AW. But from the things I've read from them about it, 1 on 1 fights were the norm and all the stuff i listed above didn't exist. They just didn't do it for the most part. I came in as AH1 was ending and it was always a massive hoarde on one huge map. So to me the MA mentallity has always been insane most of the time.
So my question is, why do you think they're leaving. Is it the player base or the game itself.
As an old AW old timer you nailed it. Although I have only been back for a while so it hasn't gotten to me yet. But it's working on it. The cry baby stunts and perpetual whining is way over nauseating, and makes some of us embarrassed FOR some of those whiners. Too much testosterone over load and not enough class. No country is any different then the other, and we are all here for the same reasons....why slam each other to death? And before I go on yes it DID exist in AW,... but the difference is, when you got out of hand in AW, the masses let you know and shamed you back in line, or a GA like me would come along and straighten it out, properly. This stuff where everything is automated and no personal touch has it's draw backs. Sometimes you need to pull a player off to the side and explain things to them, AT THE MOMENT, not days later in some BB. *I* think the game needs visible GAs who give a human touch to issues and take time to make sense to the players. A voice of reason. I don't think hiding moderators is the answer. If you need to be hidden then you're not doing something right IMO. Make GAs visible and it has a much different effect.
Some in here just keep provoking more of the same as if that's the way. I can name a few perpetual buzz kills in the game but I won't, they know who they are and we all know who they are.
But that's just me
Animl
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Maybe when they go back to the "good ol' days" they only remember the good fights they've had, never the bad ones. I don't know if there was like 1000s of players on each server of AW, but I would probably have to say, there either wasn't that many people playing AW, or they had many arenas.
I always have, and always will like this game, very fun, and always has been.
At one point there were 10s of 1000s enrolled in AW. AW Bigweek still holds the record of the most players in one arena... that I know of unless AH topped that. It was a sick but cool amount of people.
Animl
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I have said since the week of the arena splits that I don't see how the concept of players finding a "home arena" is possible with unique arena setups along side the same old open plane set arenas.
Maybe I am I don't understand what you are saying here ... but I have made MW my "home". I will on occasion, venture into the LW arenas, but when I first log in ... it's the MW that I go to first.
There is a "core" of people in MW, that I would be safe in saying that they would call it "home" ... over the other arenas.
As far as I am concerned ... the "split" was a God Send for me ... had that not happened ... I probably would have hung up my gear quite some time ago.
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I think it is just because of the same old boring crap...Same basic game same old thing everyday...
Every single night, without exception, there is more then one person complaining about HOs they line themselves up with. It's putrid and lame. If you don't want to be HOed stopping lining up in the HO. There are a zillion ways to avoid an HO,.. but you have to actually USE them. Whining about it without doing anything yourself just means you're a cry baby. <shrug> I say "you as in people in general, not you yourself. Stop being cry babies and "fly your plane my way or you're a loser". Some people take the game entirely too serious, ralax, humor yourselves, be humble,..enjoy the game. When you enjoy provoking people more then fun in the game you need to check yourself, not others.
Animl
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And your point of view is what is common and is missing the point some of the old timers are leaving. Back in the day.... 1995-present online was about the community and not the game itself. I started in AW DOS but didn't have the funds to play onine on Genie but did when it went AW4W (windows) on AOL and a few other platforms, we even eventually had Mac platform players with us PC players. The community eventually got so big that the main message BBS was outside of the company and the BigWeek BBS was spawned and is still up today as far as I know. To us in the day... AW and now AH is not just a video game and those that treat it like it is are why there are so many of the old timers leaving!
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
> BigWeek BBS was spawned and is still up today as far as I know.
yes it is. :)
Animl (who played AW in DOS and waited for pricing to go down before picking it back up in 94-95, and finally permanently in 96.)
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lol... Popeye was in my squad for a long time. There was someone else in my squad I can't remember his handle but it started with a Q... he was consistantly the best of all of us.
Moggy used to kick my a@@ although I did win on rare occasions.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
Popeye (and moggy) was a class act. just sayin.
Animl
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Maybe I am I don't understand what you are saying here ... but I have made MW my "home". I will on occasion, venture into the LW arenas, but when I first log in ... it's the MW that I go to first.
There is a "core" of people in MW, that I would be fase in saying that they would call it "home" ... over the other arenas.
As far as I am concerned ... the "split" was a God Send for me ... had that not happened ... I probably would have hung up my gear quite some time ago.
I'm talking about players in general. AKAK is at "home" in MW too, so obviously some have found a home. That situation appears to be in the minority though doesn't it?
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I haven't left...but spend much less time flying. Hours on a month are no indication of how much time I spend in the tower B.S.ing.
I stay mainly because of my squaddies....If it wasn't for them I would have parked my plane a year ago.
Things have changed in the arenas....gameplay and general attitudes. It's just not as much fun as it used to be but I still log on...fly a few hops with the guys and gal and log off. Spend a few days away and log on rinse and repeat.The hours upon hours I used to spend daily on here have long since gone away.
Between wife, golf and Work....AHII is WAY back on the burner.
Perhaps if some changes happened...gameplay...graphic s....etc. I would once again enjoy it like I used to....But after about 10 years of sims....Fighter Ace for a year or so...then here for the 8.5 or so...I'm winding down.
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FYI........ You are the guy in the tower that has advanced warning of an NOE.......... The base is flashing but no gv spawn in..... Hmmmm, what could that mean? But you stay in the tower and watch instead of upping. Why? Because it'll mess up your score! NOE's only keep score-potatos out of a fight. Plenty of good fights via NOE's have I seen.
[/HIJACK OVER]
The whole reason they are going NOE is to avoid a fight. It doesn't bother me much that it happens from time to time. But entire groups of people in game think they have mad "skillz" for doing it over and over again.
But none of this has to do with why people leave........
So my 2 cents........ Sometimes people just get tired. If more of us took a break from time to time, there would be alot less of this kind of thing. My job forces me to be away for a week here or 2 weeks there. And that really keeps the game close to my heart. Try it, hopefully it will for you too!
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Between wife, golf and Work....AHII is WAY back on the burner.
I have work, wife, and hunting now. Added to that the sprog is nearly 4 and is hogging all the game time on my PC (playing Red Baron Arcade, Transformers, and Bionic Commando). I only get to play when he's sleeping, ie after 8pm which is early early morning US hours.
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I see it as more of a player bashing thread.
I was quite interested in everyones replys. Crap wasn't in the conversation until you brought it in. It would be nice for just once to have a mature discussion without a smart tomato comment from you. But i guess that's too much to ask. Thanks for the comments tomatohat :salute
and i didn't type tomato!
You're one to snipe? :rofl You not only PROVED my post, but it annoyed you, so it had truth.
As TC said, you bit on a hook that was "never there" in the first place.
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Every single night, without exception, there is more then one person complaining about HOs they line themselves up with. It's putrid and lame. If you don't want to be HOed stopping lining up in the HO. There are a zillion ways to avoid an HO,.. but you have to actually USE them. Whining about it without doing anything yourself just means you're a cry baby. <shrug> I say "you as in people in general, not you yourself. Stop being cry babies and "fly your plane my way or you're a loser". Some people take the game entirely too serious, ralax, humor yourselves, be humble,..enjoy the game. When you enjoy provoking people more then fun in the game you need to check yourself, not others.
Animl
lol said like a true HO'er.
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Animl mentioned a "GA". I think something along those lines would be outstanding. I've been calmed down and made to take a 2nd thought stupid arguments I've been in by a few. When you have 12yr olds in the same sandbox as a 44 yr old, fur will fly before it's all said and done :lol Mods are good to have, but I too don't see the need for them to hide in the shadows. They should be front and center nipping trouble in the bud. That in itself would be a great start to improving things around here. :salute
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You're one to snipe? :rofl You not only PROVED my post, but it annoyed you, so it had truth.
As TC said, you bit on a hook that was "never there" in the first place.
sigh :rolleyes: who let him in here?
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lol said like a true HO'er.
is that all you do is pop in and put your little snipes on people?
I think your jealous you don't know what was like when there was no HO'n.
Allot of us in this thread do.
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sigh :rolleyes: who let him in here?
:D
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Popeye (and moggy) was a class act. just sayin.
Animl
I think you used to kick my a@@ on occasion too. I still vividly remember fighting you one day.
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I'm talking about players in general. AKAK is at "home" in MW too, so obviously some have found a home. That situation appears to be in the minority though doesn't it?
Yes we are the "minority" for sure ... and at times, I am glad for it ... it is, as someone described in this thread, a smaller community where everyone pretty much knows everyone else, and for the most part, attitudes and BS are kept in check by the "vets" (along with other who have bought into what should and should not be acceptable behaviour) for the most part ... kinda like when I started 7 years ago.
I have seen, on a number of occasions, a self-proclaimed no-name LW "hot-shot" come into MW and try to infect the MW with the LW "scum virus" and said hot-shot is drummed out of the arena by the community ... either verbally or getting his butt handed to him because he thinks the talent in the MW is not up to LW par.
It's not ...
the maps
the size of the map
the strat game (or lack there of)
the amount of ack and it's accuracy
or any other AH game specific problem
it's the "community" and what is has become acceptable behavior within the "community" that is dragging this game to it's knees ... compared to what use to be acceptable behavior.
Mind you, there is nothing wrong with a little "smack" throw around every once and awhile. For me, the LW is nothing but a cesspool of downright mean spirited and poisonous dialog. Along with that, throw in a constant dialog of whines that are a result of getting your butt handed to you and the reason that you got your butt handed to you had nothing to do with something that YOU did wrong, but rather some bogus made-up excuse to save face.
Why can't people just swallow the fact that they fugged up ... learn from it ... and try again ?
Why must they constantly overwhelm CH 200 (or All) with excuses ?
Is it that embarrassing to lose, that you have to fire some sort of BS excuse or mean spririted comment across 200 so that I (who wasn't there to actually see the fight) might think that the guy that just beat you sucks worse than you ?
Another problem is the need to be #1 on the HTC Home page ... people have now pushed aside the "wanting" to be a good dogfighter ... to gaming the game at all costs (vulching 2nd accounts to milk running arenas in the wee hours of the morning) so that they can get their name in "lights" and for some strange reason, there is a vast majority of people that actually think that those listed as #1 are the cream of the crop for this game ... absurd to say the least.
Dog fighting ... the core of this game IMHO ... has been lost in a sea of gamers and griefers.
MW is my slice of the "old" apple pie, and I pray every day that it does not get infected with the LW mold and spoil it ... if that does happen, then maybe I will be writing my "Farewell" post.
edited: changed "tomato" to "butt" ... :D
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Animl mentioned a "GA". I think something along those lines would be outstanding. I've been calmed down and made to take a 2nd thought stupid arguments I've been in by a few. When you have 12yr olds in the same sandbox as a 44 yr old, fur will fly before it's all said and done :lol Mods are good to have, but I too don't see the need for them to hide in the shadows. They should be front and center nipping trouble in the bud. That in itself would be a great start to improving things around here. :salute
Yep would also keep them from misinturpreting there place in the game IE: punting people.
Couple other things would help.
A strait that had an effect.
A Spit16 factory would be defended
No back channel comms
An arcade arena for the youngins
Say a 20degree window for the HO 5-10degree each side top and bottom
Bomb Ride useless but fun
Heck how bout AH3! on an updated engine no more P-3 stuff?
The old guys are the real bread and butter and if they all go so will AH.
I don't think thats how it will play out. I think a new version will be coming, somthing that will sustain the owners new family and friends for the years to come ..but hey I could be wrong.
It will depend on HT, but latly I myself have been thinking of a new career. <shrug>
Some things do get old. Some social experiments do come to an end.
I heard some new #guy on 200 the other day "Hey where are the 1000's of people in here like the add says?"
Well,
Fin
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I think you used to kick my a@@ on occasion too. I still vividly remember fighting you one day.
I never kicked anyone's butt, it just happened to have ended that way. I always saw that winning a long fight was somehow depressing,... it was over. It was never winning to me as much of the fun of the fight. That said I'm sure today you could hand me my butt on a regular basis. :)
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But none of this has to do with why people leave........
For a few it is a prime example of why to leave. More and more people avoid a fight. They come in NOE, either take the base and wtg each other or all die and look for another easy base to attempt to steal.
I don't play this game to simulate a lame whack a mole.
Most of the reason I play anymore is FSO, Scenarios, and griefing toolshedders and misshuns. :D
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I hear you but as a frequent NOE'er, I have to disagree. When we NOE and walk right in and take a base in 2.3 minutes, it's awfully boring and certainly not what we want out of it. The destination is the base take sure, but golly gee whiz, I want the road to be a little rough too!
<S> bongaroo
For a few it is a prime example of why to leave. More and more people avoid a fight. They come in NOE, either take the base and wtg each other or all die and look for another easy base to attempt to steal.
I don't play this game to simulate a lame whack a mole.
Most of the reason I play anymore is FSO, Scenarios, and griefing toolshedders and misshuns. :D
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As a preface, my schedule only allows me to fly after 10pm west coast time, so if I want to see any action, the LW arenas the the only place to be. MW sounds like fun, but it's a ghost town at night.
I've been in AH since the beta, and in WB since it was in beta as "Confirmed Kill," and I can't really say that the style of fighting has changed all that much in my eyes. Yeah, there's more strat, and there's GV, but the furballs seem about the same to me. The number of HO's seem about the same. The Vulches seem about the same. The cherry picking (formerly called "Many v. Many Tactics", aka "smart flying") seems about the same. The number of 1V1's seem about the same. Pony's still stay fast and straight. Hurri's still stay slow and turn.
The two big changes I see since I started playing are:
1. The shrill whining on channel 200 about any perceived injustice or problem.
2. There's a scoreboard and a leaderboard.
The first creates immediate problems that everyone can immediately understand, and it detracts from the game's "Quality of Life" like graffiti tagging on a neighborhood building.
The second creates an insidious problem that encourages players to "game the game" for a good score at best, or perform dishonest acts like vulch shade accounts in MW in the dead of night at worst. At the very least, it encourages that half of the playing audience who care about score to land their kills via any tactic possible (HOs, run away when not flying in a horde, etc.), while the other half just flies and dogfights until they're dead, with basically no middle ground.
So here are my modest proposals to improve the overall gaming experience in AH.
1. No more scores. No more leaderboard.
Sure, let the servers keep track of this for the purposes of commanding the CV, and sure, let players see their own stats, BUT DON'T LET ANYONE SEE ANYONE ELSE'S SCORE. DON'T LET PEOPLE SEE WHAT THEIR RANK IS COMPARED TO ANYONE ELSE. Keep the individual "who killed who" pages to keep everyone honest, but that's it.
When there's no reason to lie, cheat, steal, claw, run, HO, and vultch your way to the top of the standings, there will be a lot less if it.
2. Announce who killed who as it happens, in semi-realtime, sort of like how WB used to, regardless of whether you live or not.
This would provide instant gratification to those who dogfight who like to see their name "up in lights" but wouldn't require what some perceive as cowardly "running away in the face of multiple enemies." Messages could be like:
SHAWK landed kills of LLAMA, Agent360, and DoubleD
or
LLAMA was killed, taking WingOver, Condor, and Aztec with him
3. Employ a non-automated whine-abatement program on CH200.
Cities paint over graffiti to improve citizens' quality of life. Most whines on CH200 are the same thing - oral graffiti -and it detracts from everybody else. Deputize certain players with the authority to issue warnings, and then mute, and then kick, players repeatedly polluting CH200 with whining. As time passes, you'll need LESS policing, not more.
Suggestion 1 requires 20 minutes of programming.
Suggestion 2 requires a few hours, I'd guess.
Suggestion 3 requires real effort and has real pitfalls, but I think it's worth it.
I bet all three would change things for the better around here.
-Llama
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I hear you but as a frequent NOE'er, I have to disagree. When we NOE and walk right in and take a base in 2.3 minutes, it's awfully boring and certainly not what we want out of it. The destination is the base take sure, but golly gee whiz, I want the road to be a little rough too!
<S> bongaroo
You're saying the road is the destination?
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You're saying the road is the destination?
as if its not obvious to a 5 year old. He is saying nobody wants to just walk over a base, its boring.
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I think your jealous you don't know what was like when there was no HO'n.
Allot of us in this thread do.
Funny thing is every time I've ever run into you in the MA, you do either one of two things. You'll either run (which is most of the time) or HO if you can't run.
ack-ack
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Mods are good to have, but I too don't see the need for them to hide in the shadows. They should be front and center nipping trouble in the bud. That in itself would be a great start to improving things around here. :salute
The problem with that is as a Visable mod you end up ansering questions,hearing thousands of whines,getting your calls broadcasted and flamed on the bbs , along with no time to enjoy the game. (you have to have a shade account just to keep your sanity ) My opinion from Mod exp in another game.
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2. Announce who killed who as it happens, in semi-realtime, sort of like how WB used to, regardless of whether you live or not.
This would provide instant gratification to those who dogfight who like to see their name "up in lights" but wouldn't require what some perceive as cowardly "running away in the face of multiple enemies." Messages could be like:
SHAWK landed kills of LLAMA, Agent360, and DoubleD
or
LLAMA was killed, taking WingOver, Condor, and Aztec with him
That would be seriously spamming the text chat. WB had a considerable fewer players than Aces High.
We have >20,000 kills per day in LW arenas, the majority of them during peak hours. That would result in a lot of names racing through the chat window....
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For a few it is a prime example of why to leave. More and more people avoid a fight. They come in NOE, either take the base and wtg each other or all die and look for another easy base to attempt to steal.
You keep talking about Noe missions avoiding a fight, yet you seem to almost deliberatly leave out the plethora of punkstangs etc.that at the 1st sign of an equal fight run for the hills.
One might think you are more than a little biased.
I for one , have almost completely stopped flying in the Lw arenas because of the latter.
So while I can sympathise with your views on Noe missions,( I hate alt/run monkeys as much as you hate Noes) I will add that they are certainly not the only ones using tactics that are probably "annoying" some people to the point of leaving the game.
If I ever have to climb to 20k plus in Ew or Mw to be on an even playing field with people who will just run away at the 1st sign of danger, I too will most likely leave this game entirely.
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as if its not obvious to a 5 year old. He is saying nobody wants to just walk over a base, its boring.
The real point in asking that rhetorical question went over your head.
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Every single night, without exception, there is more then one person complaining about HOs they line themselves up with. It's putrid and lame. If you don't want to be HOed stopping lining up in the HO. There are a zillion ways to avoid an HO,.. but you have to actually USE them. Whining about it without doing anything yourself just means you're a cry baby. <shrug> I say "you as in people in general, not you yourself. Stop being cry babies and "fly your plane my way or you're a loser". Some people take the game entirely too serious, ralax, humor yourselves, be humble,..enjoy the game. When you enjoy provoking people more then fun in the game you need to check yourself, not others.
Animl
wtf did u quote me for on this makes no sense... I have never cryed about hos...I avoid em pretty easy to do..Well when I use to play this cartoon anyhow...Weird :O my post said nothing of a ho :aok
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Funny thing is every time I've ever run into you in the MA, you do either one of two things. You'll either run (which is most of the time) or HO if you can't run.
ack-ack
Your FOS :)
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Your FOS :)
Nope, each time I've encountered you've done both of those things pretty much every time. That's why I was initially surprised it was you on our first encounter, never thought you were that timid and expected a better fight. Sadly, you've disappointed me each time.
ack-ack
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wtf did u quote me for on this makes no sense... I have never cryed about hos...I avoid em pretty easy to do..Well when I use to play this cartoon anyhow...Weird :O my post said nothing of a ho :aok
>>> I think it is just because of the same old boring crap...Same basic game same old thing everyday...
I never accused you of anything nor saying anything, I was simply elaborating my POV on the same old boring crap part.
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Nope, each time I've encountered you've done both of those things pretty much every time. That's why I was initially surprised it was you on our first encounter, never thought you were that timid and expected a better fight. Sadly, you've disappointed me each time.
ack-ack
Check 6. :)
You know I love you both <cough gag cough> :) But is it really all about that? Have we been hangin with the baby seals too long, picking up bad habits?
I say that in jest with the best of intentions.
<ducks from flying projectiles>
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I am in no way an Old Timer that's for sure but I'll put in my 2 cents. I have been playing for a little more than 2 years and I've loved this game from the minute i started to play it. I didn't play anything else for the last two years because of the challenge this Air combat simulator brings me. Like Slapshot, I'm also 99% of the time in MWA. I've tried to play a bit in LW when there is less players or fights in MW and I just can't seem to fit in. In Mid War, there is still some hordes attacking the bases sometimes but you can normally find a few smaller fights of 4 vs 4 or so. And very often you can find theses 1 vs 1 too. I agree that the scoring system tends to modify how players are actually playing the game. They will go the easiest path. I think that to keep these old players and be able to still learn from them for a bit we need to think of a way to force people to fight and confront other players to raise the level of skills. The game has to stay a Combat simulator, not a video game. I hope they stay, I'm not done asking them questions. :salute
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> BigWeek BBS was spawned and is still up today as far as I know.
yes it is. :)
Animl (who played AW in DOS and waited for pricing to go down before picking it back up in 94-95, and finally permanently in 96.)
And I miss flying with you my old friend... We just flew for fun and that is what is missing here for many of the folks. I'm on the Bishtard side...hehehhe
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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That would be seriously spamming the text chat. WB had a considerable fewer players than Aces High.
We have >20,000 kills per day in LW arenas, the majority of them during peak hours. That would result in a lot of names racing through the chat window....
So what?
We already have real spam in the form of constant, ceaseless, shrill whining about utter nonsense on CH200.
I suggest we have Mods that are empowered to cut the cr@p that's there. This replaces it, and it serves a purpose: to let anyone's name be "up in lights" for activity, thereby reducing the need for actions that some players consider cheap.
-Llama
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And I miss flying with you my old friend... We just flew for fun and that is what is missing here for many of the folks. I'm on the Bishtard side...hehehhe
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
Hey man, :) Life ain't over yet,...if you see me up flick my ear I'll come fly with ya, or fight ya,... whateva.
I've been flyin Rooks since I've been back. Hangin with FlyinFin and Brooke crew, but then took another break. Once in a while flipping sides to fly with Tumor and CorkyJr on the Bish side. CorkyJr still hands me my butt on a sickingly constant basis, I think he has my number. I mean who else would T&B using an A5 on the deck at a base furball, I think that kinda red flags me as insane. <G> Most times I'm flyin solo as I get on late. If you see a 51 or A5 come out of BFE for no apparent reason, it's probably me. :)
And I agree, #1 rule was always Fun 1st.
wondering aimlessly off the edge of the earth,..
But then 3D was so newish then we were just happy to be a part of it. I still remember login into AW1.5 (still have the install files somewhere) and was just completely amazed that world even existed... it was just too cool to be true. I didn't care nor expect winning anything, I was happy to get my plane off the ground, landing was always a lawn dart approach for several weeks, most times being shot down before being a lawn dart. It was just way too fun to be upset about. I was just happy to be a part of it and able to see it grow into this. I don't even think I got my first kill for the first month and the guy was prolly sleeping,.. literally. :) Many a night I found myself passed out over the KB. As lame as the art was compared to today's standards it was the best thing to ever hit the planet earth back then, how could you be upset about that? I think a lot of folks take it all for granted.... just another game, something to break. I still prefer to view it as a sim. I still like the history part of it.
One thing I think some don't understand is. Some of us have been doing this for 10-15+ yrs, and some years before me. But my point is, we haven't been flying for 15-20 years non-stop every day, every year. We take breaks, sometimes as long as a year or two, for me it was 4. I\we know guys here who bailed from AW and showed up here years later. Sometimes they will return married and with first child. But we always find our way back to it. People who were rivals then are welcome sights today, part of the family.
Life still has priorities that need tending, especially at our age. I think CorkyJr will be back, he just needs a break from the "gamers" smelling up the sim and history part of it and tend to new things in his life which he has rightfully prioritized over constant yapping whines that resemble fingernails on a chalkboard. <G> Personally, after all the years he has logged, I find it hard to believe he will stay away from it indefinitely. But ya never know. Maybe some mucked up the community more then I realize.
I realize some peeps here are quite a bit younger then some of us, so some things are expected that go with that, but for those without that excuse, it's prolly time some pulled up their pants and start acting a little more mature about things and quit chasing the good people out with their perpetual broken record venting. No one is impressed by it, no one learns anything from it. If you want something changed, lead by example, their arses will follow.
When you're a good friend with who you fight, you learn MUCH about your own mistakes. Because every single time you are shot down it's your own fault for lack of SA and selecting the right fight.
If you see me up come grab me, I'll play old school with yas, anytime... old friend. :)
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Nope, each time I've encountered you've done both of those things pretty much every time. That's why I was initially surprised it was you on our first encounter, never thought you were that timid and expected a better fight. Sadly, you've disappointed me each time.
ack-ack
YES! I have run intto you a total of 3 times 2 times you died and the 3rd you picked me all of the last 5 years.
I would bet that you can ask just about any 1 and find what you say is caca :)
you should get in the arena alittle more and find out :)
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So what?
We already have real spam in the form of constant, ceaseless, shrill whining about utter nonsense on CH200.
I suggest we have Mods that are empowered to cut the cr@p that's there. This replaces it, and it serves a purpose: to let anyone's name be "up in lights" for activity, thereby reducing the need for actions that some players consider cheap.
-Llama
In AW we called that Scrolling, and you got punished for it. :) I know this is not AW,.. but just sayin anyway.
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You keep talking about Noe missions avoiding a fight, yet you seem to almost deliberatly leave out the plethora of punkstangs etc.that at the 1st sign of an equal fight run for the hills.
One might think you are more than a little biased.
I for one , have almost completely stopped flying in the Lw arenas because of the latter.
So while I can sympathise with your views on Noe missions,( I hate alt/run monkeys as much as you hate Noes) I will add that they are certainly not the only ones using tactics that are probably "annoying" some people to the point of leaving the game.
If I ever have to climb to 20k plus in Ew or Mw to be on an even playing field with people who will just run away at the 1st sign of danger, I too will most likely leave this game entirely.
You're right, but keep in mind , hopefully, those are newbies.
51 and FW need to extend to retain E. Extending for 2-3 sectors is running,.. or bingo ammo. If you don't like runners, fly a faster plane and gun smoke them anyway. <shrug>
I fixed this reply, but my point is,...not everyone we see is a vet, and sometimes you're exactly right. I've been called a runner before in my 51, until they notice that once I get 1500-2k out or you turn back, whatever distance it takes me to achieve that, I'm turning on ya. I rarely land my plane.
Milk runners also keep those you complain about out of the fun fights. But yes, if you look at it too long it's a sad.
Animl
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2. Announce who killed who as it happens, in semi-realtime, sort of like how WB used to, regardless of whether you live or not.
AH had this for a few years until the population grew and it became too much traffic on the buffer. I'm still chuckling just thinking about the buffer scrolling when I'd happen to drop a bomb on multiple VH's or pop a couple rockets on a line of planes taking off :)
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AH had this for a few years until the population grew and it became too much traffic on the buffer. I'm still chuckling just thinking about the buffer scrolling when I'd happen to drop a bomb on multiple VH's or pop a couple rockets on a line of planes taking off :)
No, no. You're not reading past the bold line.
The line listing your kills could/should ONLY appear when you land or get killed, not as you kill each and every enemy.
But that chuckle you're thinking of is the cool part. If you manage to kill a whole mess of enemy, the kill line would wrap to the next line, which really is an accomplishment that I think everyone would approve of.
Otherwise, if you "only" kill 7 or 8 guys, it would still all only appear on one line, which is no different than what we've got now. In most cases, the "kill line" would be longer than it is now, but it wouldn't necessarily be more than one line at a time.
-Llama
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One thing I think some don't understand is. Some of us have been doing this for 10-15+ yrs, and some years before me. But my point is, we haven't been flying for 15-20 years non-stop every day, every year. We take breaks...
Speak for yourself. :)
BTW, if you want to go mess around and shake the rust off let me know.
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AH had this for a few years until the population grew and it became too much traffic on the buffer. I'm still chuckling just thinking about the buffer scrolling when I'd happen to drop a bomb on multiple VH's or pop a couple rockets on a line of planes taking off :)
ya mean Like this .... muahahahahaa
(http://www.roscoroo.com/Secret%20link%20folder/ah40.jpg)
yes I remember the ole AH1 1.04 and previous days when we had who killed who posted all the time. we only had 80-120 players usually and it didn't tax the buffer so much.
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The past 2 nights have totally sucked for me. DA isnt much of an option, its just another gangfest.
I will say Ive never seen so many Runners,ropers,ack hiding,speed freaks, as I have the past couple of months. The scales have certainly tipped from quality of fight vs staying alive no matter what.
Aces High is now officially a "Flight Sim"..as in flee
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is that all you do is pop in and put your little snipes on people?
I think your jealous you don't know what was like when there was no HO'n.
Allot of us in this thread do.
Hmm I remember back then... been here for quite some time.
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YES! I have run intto you a total of 3 times 2 times you died and the 3rd you picked me all of the last 5 years.
I would bet that you can ask just about any 1 and find what you say is caca :)
you should get in the arena alittle more and find out :)
Actually, if you were to look up the tours for the last year, you'll see the victories are in my side of the column. The last time we fought and I won, you got upset because you couldn't understand how a P-38J was able to out turn you in the deck when you were flying a N1K2. I then offered a friendly challenge to the DA, which you declined and implied that I was somehow cheating. After that, I pretty much just considered you just a tool with more mouth than skill.
The majority that speak ill of me, you'll also see are the ones I shoot down the most often and are pretty much considered the 'tards of the game. So what they say really has no bearing on me. I am also not the one that posted in a shade account taking a cheap shot at Dan, that just further shows what a tool you are. Like I said, you were a tool in AW and you're still one here. Enjoy.
*edit* it was a N1K2, not a P-39.
ack-ack
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Hmm I remember back then... been here for quite some time.
really you played AW I dont remember you and thats what were talking about!
The HO model in AW <Air Warrior> right Shuffles?
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Actually, if you were to look up the tours for the last year, you'll see the victories are in my side of the column. The last time we fought and I won, you got upset because you couldn't understand how a P-38J was able to out turn you in the deck when you were flying a P-39. I then offered a friendly challenge to the DA, which you declined and implied that I was somehow cheating. After that, I pretty much just considered you just a tool with more mouth than skill.
The majority that speak ill of me, you'll also see are the ones I shoot down the most often and are pretty much considered the 'tards of the game. So what they say really has no bearing on me. I am also not the one that posted in a shade account taking a cheap shot at Dan, that just further shows what a tool you are. Like I said, you were a tool in AW and you're still one here. Enjoy.
ack-ack
N1K2? you have the wrong guy<Sigh> glad you went to all the trouble :)
Toodles,
Fin
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ya mean Like this .... muahahahahaa
(http://www.roscoroo.com/Secret%20link%20folder/ah40.jpg)
:D
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I liked that little stat sheet you used to be able to pull up in WB that would list the things like your kill streak and stuff like that.
ack-ack
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Speak for yourself. :)
BTW, if you want to go mess around and shake the rust off let me know.
That's because you're a true viking.
Anytime you see me up just let me know you're there. I'm always up for a good challenge.
Animl
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N1K2? you have the wrong guy<Sigh> glad you went to all the trouble :)
Toodles,
Fin
Looks like AKAK may be telling the truth and the Fin is full of crap.....again.
AKAK vs Finn (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsinm.php?playername=AKAK&selectTour=LWTour106&pindex=82&kindex=7)
Just another classless twit. Another prime example of "Why are they leaving?"
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You keep talking about Noe missions avoiding a fight, yet you seem to almost deliberatly leave out the plethora of punkstangs etc.that at the 1st sign of an equal fight run for the hills.
One might think you are more than a little biased.
I for one , have almost completely stopped flying in the Lw arenas because of the latter.
So while I can sympathise with your views on Noe missions,( I hate alt/run monkeys as much as you hate Noes) I will add that they are certainly not the only ones using tactics that are probably "annoying" some people to the point of leaving the game.
If I ever have to climb to 20k plus in Ew or Mw to be on an even playing field with people who will just run away at the 1st sign of danger, I too will most likely leave this game entirely.
Oh, I don't enjoy people running, but often if I show them a little tail they'll turn back and take another swipe. Unfortunately for them I'm now closer to co-e. :D
I find myself jumping between the MW and AvA often now. The AvA you have to catch at the right time to get any action as opposed to just finding 4 people milking a base.
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Looks like AKAK may be telling the truth and the Fin is full of crap.....again.
AKAK vs Finn (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsinm.php?playername=AKAK&selectTour=LWTour106&pindex=82&kindex=7)
Just another classless twit. Another prime example of "Why are they leaving?"
go to tour 106 LW smart guy and check yourself expanded format show me where i flew a nik within the last 3 years.
U have brown eyes?
BTW next time you want to look me up genius try FlyinFin thats my in game name.
Another 1,
Fin
Nice troll u classless twit :)
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To try and get back on topic, not to speak as to why others have left (only they know) but I can tell why I am seriously considering cancelling my account... Arena Cap. I get on last night, see all my squaddies are in LW Orange which is 302/300. Try for 5 minutes to get in, go have a smoke, try for 5 more minutes then alt F4 and go do something else. I know the arena cap subject has been covered a million times, but that doesnt mean I can't have an opinion on it. What's the point of me paying my $15 to fly alone, or, then what's the point of having squadmates if you can't get to them? Again, just my .02 as to why HTC is getting closer to losing my money.
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I see quite a few from your squad in MW alot.
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I see quite a few from your squad in MW alot.
Yea, Von plays only MW, a couple other play in there here and there.
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go to tour 106 LW smart guy and check yourself expanded format show me where i flew a nik within the last 3 years.
U have brown eyes?
BTW next time you want to look me up genius try FlyinFin thats my in game name.
Another 1,
Fin
Nice troll u classless twit :)
ahhh sorry mistaken identity....wrong shade I guess. However, for the comment on Corky, you can keep the "classless twit" moniker.
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ya mean Like this .... muahahahahaa
(http://www.roscoroo.com/Secret%20link%20folder/ah40.jpg)
:lol
Ah, the good old days, and my first shades.
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well.. luckily you guys still have a bunch of 13 year old kids buzzing around in unperked super planes, at least you have somethin going for ya. ;)
gameplay sucks, bottom line. :rolleyes:
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Looks like AKAK may be telling the truth and the Fin is full of crap.....again.
AKAK vs Finn (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killsinm.php?playername=AKAK&selectTour=LWTour106&pindex=82&kindex=7)
Just another classless twit. Another prime example of "Why are they leaving?"
I was actually incorrect for that tour, used the wrong handle. However, using the correct handle and looking back 13 tours, this is what I found.
AKAK vs. FlyinFin (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/killedby.php?playername=FlyinFin&selectTour=LWTour101&pindex=82)
I accounted for 71% of his total deaths to a P-38J that tour, only tour I could find within the last year that I encountered him. On a side note, it also appears that whenever someone from the 479th flies near him, he likes to grab his ankles because he sure does seem to be a favorite kill of the Raiders.
Anyway, I'm done with him.
ack-ack
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Each night there seems to be over 900 people on spread out over the arenas....not sure who is leaving...
If HiTech "ended the misery" of about 4 posters in this thread...this thread would be done as well... :devil
For you guys who can't figure out how to have fun in this game anymore...I am honestly sorry...it is a great game. But as with everything in life (marriage, job, kids) you have to continuously adapt your expectations or be miserable...most of the original guys i flew with in AW left the game long ago...they were replaced with other guys...perhaps I am the dinosaur because i cant think of any other game i have played for more then 1 year without moving on...
But there is nothing HTC can do to make it fun for a handful of guys when 900+ are having a great time...when those numbers drop I'm sure they will be more concerned :salute When I quit having fun i'll be gone too...
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Each night there seems to be over 900 people on spread out over the arenas....not sure who is leaving...
If HiTech "ended the misery" of about 4 posters in this thread...this thread would be done as well... :devil
For you guys who can't figure out how to have fun in this game anymore...I am honestly sorry...it is a great game. But as with everything in life (marriage, job, kids) you have to continuously adapt your expectations or be miserable...most of the original guys i flew with in AW left the game long ago...they were replaced with other guys...perhaps I am the dinosaur because i cant think of any other game i have played for more then 1 year without moving on...
But there is nothing HTC can do to make it fun for a handful of guys when 900+ are having a great time...when those numbers drop I'm sure they will be more concerned :salute When I quit having fun i'll be gone too...
After numerouse encounters in game and on this BBS I absolutely couldn't care less for anything you have to say.
A fair share of people who are good for this game have left. The game is worse off for it.
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If and when I ever leave this game it will be because it has become too "gamey". There are too many things that are too same-same. Base lay outs are the same. Win conditions are the same. Towns are all the same size. Each base has the same number of ord, barracks, fuel, etc.
I will also hit the road if and when the ENY/OBJ scoring gets too out of hand. I am still baffled each and every time I play and see some planes ranked as they are (190A-8, P47N, 109K4, etc). The lack of explanation from HTC and the lack of variety get old. Ive been here a year and wonder sometimes just how much longer I will be here. But, I really enjoy flying the sim.
If the game portion becomes old and stale... and it takes quite a bit of nothing for that to happen... I'll fade away.
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Murdr by far, has the best grasp on what is going on. No one will care what I have to say, since I'm consistently vocal about this subject, and have been deemed a "whiner" by many of you. I've been teetering on the edge of pulling my subscription for about 6 to 8 months now, and many would no doubt be happy about that, although not the people I fly with.
I've been around versions of this game since the original AW. I've always had fun, flying and dying. That is, up until the past year or so. For those of you that say there hasn't been a change in the gameplay, I'm sorry you weren't here for the days when it really was different.
You didn't know the days when swirling dogfights started at 15K and people paired up and danced all the way down to the deck. The fights ended, alot of times, when someone got heavily damaged, not killed, and leveled off. You let him go and he saluted you, you both laughed about the fun you just had. Kills weren't the end all, be all to the game. Vulching used to be non-existent due to the heavily involved policing by the player base. Unless a field was actively being captured, 5 or 6 vets would jump on and berate the one noob that buzzed over a field to vulch people, and countrymen would offer assistance to help "train" the person. I can't be the only one that remembers this. When "Knock it off, 190 at A14, out of fuel" over common channel ended the fight. You try that these days, 10 guys will pile on you. You used run into guys limping back to base, pouring smoke, and 15 or 20 enemies would just let him limp it home. That attitude is long lost in this incarnation of AH. It's all about the name in lights at the end of the flight.
Nowadays, I find one of these things happening.
I up singly, and cruise around looking for a fight....sit over a field waiting.... and nothing. Single con over a field, nobody ups. Snooze. Fly back home.
I up again, closer to active fights.... and I'm dodging guys with 10K+ advantages dropping in threes and fives on me. If I happen to actually get to the "front" and try to peel guys out for a fight on the fringe 1v1, as soon as I get into the 600 range, I have 6 "friendlies" zipping in with 150+ mph advantages, even when I'm calling them off. By a miracle, should I find a good one on one, 95% end in one of two ways:
I get in firing position....He drops the nose of his P51 (the new official flower of AH) and is gone.
I find someone who wants to fight.... have a good fight started, only his countrymen pick, even with him calling them off.
The other 5% end with one of us shooting the other down. (Successful flight in my estimation)
I was actually surprised to the point of tears, flying the other night with a group of old vets that did follow that old code. Asked if you needed help. Pushed for a good one on one. Called sixes. If a friendly was within 800 to 1000 of a con, it was his. It's been a long time since I saw that. It gives this game a slim chance at hope.
More than likely I will be one of the old guard gone, thoughl. The reason is illustrated by my foray yesterday. Up at a base with 3 cons in radar with three just outside. Get to about 8K in a Ki84, to have a P51, Typhoon, and Spit16 all come in at around 19K. All dive on me at once. I last about three turns, the 51 ends up face shooting me.
I up again, by now all cons are over the base. I get vulched. Twice. By a guy with 155 victories in 24 sorties (geez wonder how he gets em). Six guys hanging over a field, not trying to take it, just padding scores. When I say something over 200, said pilot gets indignant, saying "You shouldn't up from a capped field jack---". I agree. I log off. There is no fun in that game, for either participant in my estimation.
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Very nicely said.
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agree nicely said..
I for one consider it a "kill" when damage that will force the guy home is done.. If im fighting a con far from his nearest base (3 or 4 sectors) and give him a oil leak.. for all intensive purposes i WOULD.. be done with him, because to be realistic all he can do is try to get as close to home as possible and ditch.. but considering this is Aces High and death nor the attempt at playing at least a little realistic means nothing to the vast majority, Im forced to shoot him till he explodes.. because if I dont, and break off when I cause the oil leak, more often than not he will turn and try to HO and or RAM the first guy he can.. which is pathetic, gamy and stupid.. but.. well I digress.
and yes, i try to land every sortie I go on,ask any squaddie..
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After numerouse encounters in game and on this BBS I absolutely couldn't care less for anything you have to say.
A fair share of people who are good for this game have left. The game is worse off for it.
Well I have been insulted by a pothead....awesome :aok
I have no idea who you are but you take yourself way to seriously.....
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Where's Skuzzy when ya need him? The big stick needs swinging on a few people here
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I agree with the other "old timers" Murdr, TC, Snap Its the game play mentality that is dragging the game down. Today far to many people are hey trying to play this game like a "Quake"type game. Fast action, shoot shoot shoot till you die trying to garner as many points as you can then repeat. The old game mentality was based more on the history the game represented. The trill of out maneuvering the opponent and get a guns solution, and going for it.
Been saying for some time now that the problem with the current AH game (for me) is the "race to reset" way the game is played. All of the poor schmucks that play it that way simply race by what made the game special in the first place....sad. :frown:
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It seems some are forgetting that the "race to reset" and the gameplay issues connected with that had been much worse about 2-3 years ago. Before the rules to win teh war wwere changed to what we have now, it really was a race... Two big countrys dogpiling on the 3rd one (often Knights), a true race against the clock, though it only mattered who had most fields of that country when the losing country was down to 5 bases. Map reset, rinse & repeat. No need for the bigger countrys running for the victory to fight each other at all at any time.
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Murdr by far, has the best grasp on what is going on. No one will care what I have to say, since I'm consistently vocal about this subject, and have been deemed a "whiner" by many of you. I've been teetering on the edge of pulling my subscription for about 6 to 8 months now, and many would no doubt be happy about that, although not the people I fly with.
I've been around versions of this game since the original AW. I've always had fun, flying and dying. That is, up until the past year or so. For those of you that say there hasn't been a change in the gameplay, I'm sorry you weren't here for the days when it really was different.
You didn't know the days when swirling dogfights started at 15K and people paired up and danced all the way down to the deck. The fights ended, alot of times, when someone got heavily damaged, not killed, and leveled off. You let him go and he saluted you, you both laughed about the fun you just had. Kills weren't the end all, be all to the game. Vulching used to be non-existent due to the heavily involved policing by the player base. Unless a field was actively being captured, 5 or 6 vets would jump on and berate the one noob that buzzed over a field to vulch people, and countrymen would offer assistance to help "train" the person. I can't be the only one that remembers this. When "Knock it off, 190 at A14, out of fuel" over common channel ended the fight. You try that these days, 10 guys will pile on you. You used run into guys limping back to base, pouring smoke, and 15 or 20 enemies would just let him limp it home. That attitude is long lost in this incarnation of AH. It's all about the name in lights at the end of the flight.
Nowadays, I find one of these things happening.
I up singly, and cruise around looking for a fight....sit over a field waiting.... and nothing. Single con over a field, nobody ups. Snooze. Fly back home.
I up again, closer to active fights.... and I'm dodging guys with 10K+ advantages dropping in threes and fives on me. If I happen to actually get to the "front" and try to peel guys out for a fight on the fringe 1v1, as soon as I get into the 600 range, I have 6 "friendlies" zipping in with 150+ mph advantages, even when I'm calling them off. By a miracle, should I find a good one on one, 95% end in one of two ways:
I get in firing position....He drops the nose of his P51 (the new official flower of AH) and is gone.
I find someone who wants to fight.... have a good fight started, only his countrymen pick, even with him calling them off.
The other 5% end with one of us shooting the other down. (Successful flight in my estimation)
I was actually surprised to the point of tears, flying the other night with a group of old vets that did follow that old code. Asked if you needed help. Pushed for a good one on one. Called sixes. If a friendly was within 800 to 1000 of a con, it was his. It's been a long time since I saw that. It gives this game a slim chance at hope.
More than likely I will be one of the old guard gone, thoughl. The reason is illustrated by my foray yesterday. Up at a base with 3 cons in radar with three just outside. Get to about 8K in a Ki84, to have a P51, Typhoon, and Spit16 all come in at around 19K. All dive on me at once. I last about three turns, the 51 ends up face shooting me.
I up again, by now all cons are over the base. I get vulched. Twice. By a guy with 155 victories in 24 sorties (geez wonder how he gets em). Six guys hanging over a field, not trying to take it, just padding scores. When I say something over 200, said pilot gets indignant, saying "You shouldn't up from a capped field jack---". I agree. I log off. There is no fun in that game, for either participant in my estimation.
Great post.
<S>
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Been flying for a few years now, Decided on the AvA as my main hang out these days, simple really, No hoing, good fights and no disrespect to the regular MA flyers but the standard of fights is a lot higher in there, In other words, if a few MA flyers came in chances are they would have their you know what handed to them in short fashion. The LWA is never going to change, I've accepted that now, I use it for a warm up or hang out with the guys if nothing much else is going on, I know I'll get ganged, picked etc in there, I know there'll be a gang of 16's, nikkis, lgays etc all hanging around 400-1000ft waiting to feed of the scraps of a fight. I know there's other guys looking for a decent fight, I read about it often enough on here, but in the MA, it's like looking for gold I'm afraid. I'm most suprised at the sheer numbers of the horde these days, I used to think a decent horde was around 10-12, now that number is dwarfed by these mega hordes you see popping up on the dar.
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You try that these days, 10 guys will pile on you. You used run into guys limping back to base, pouring smoke, and 15 or 20 enemies would just let him limp it home. That attitude is long lost in this incarnation of AH. It's all about the name in lights at the end of the flight.
Hah!
Stop in and see us, dude. Not everyone plays old-style, but plenty still do.
- oldman
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See rule #4
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Well I was far from a old timer as I only had 2 years in this game, but I think I left for much of the same reason many of the more established vets have. There were very few enjoyable "dogfights" to be had. It was always either fight the entire hoard or chase some guy running away. In the odd chance that you did get a good fight that started at 10 or 12k and continued down to the deck, it was almost certain you would either get picked by some tard that jumps in from 20k or someone on your own team would pick the guy you were fighting.
I joined this game, because I always loved old WW2 aircraft and the dogfights of WW2. I also have always liked games that required you to actually develop a "real" skill set in order to compete. It seemed like AH2 was that game at first, but even after my 1st year I was disappointed in the average player base.
I think the biggest fault of the player base, is far to few really wanted to develop real dog fighting skills and far to many were just looking for atty boys when they land their 5 or 10 vulched or ganged kills. To put it shortly, there just doesn't seem to be any respect for the actual fight anymore.. The Xbox generation succeeded in dumbing down this game to the point it just isn't much fun anymore.
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Deleted for Quote from moderated post.
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The game is dead guys, To me it doesn't really represent what WW11 air combat was about anymore.
I have been playing since AH1 and gameplay is in a downward spiral.
As it is now, it appeals more to the Xbox and nintendo players.
I have been keeping myself away from playing this game, The Main Arena's make no sense to me.
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Why I left... grew up on AW flat out BETTER FLIGHT MODEL.
AH head on collision then ride a kite down after it took me 15 minutes to fly into a battle while I watch the guy that collided into me fly off as if nothing ever happened.
If I get shot down I prefer a beautiful death explosion Not a 5 minute flutter to earth.(AW)
RR option not here. I want to play a flight sim and not get the effects of really flying. That said I understand you have to have something in the game that reflects flight other than an arcade game.
Again it was back to the flight model if you popped of your flaps the plane would rock or if you put your gear down at speed your plane would dip down, turning much smoother and showed my favorite planes such as the P47 and FW190's much more caplable than the flying metiores depicted in AH.
Communities, bout the same squads good players in AH and AW.
I wish someone would bring back AW.... sigh.
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I manage to find good fights most of the time yeah I have to wear down the gang tards and I'm usually flying an older plane but.. hey :frown: there are still plenty of good sticks left in the game and some new 1's too even though it is hard to tell with all the shades players use. I don't really know why any 1 would need 2 accts or 2 names... but what ever.
I was fighting with Filth last night it was pretty bad. I stayed there a while after with 4X4 and ended up having 1-2 good fights and 2-4 decent fights with BBaw of course I was still dodging an FW friend but in between the passes we had some good turns. Fm2 to Zeke, and spit9 an il2 once <G>. over all was fun. Then I went to go find Kermit's 109e in my p-40 it was late by then and well he got lucky last night <G> <S> Kermit. I got a compliment from BBaw. He said I was top shelf lol like his wife's undies... made me laugh.
I try to mix it up a few attack runs, a few T&B, capped base defence if you want a quick fight but be ready to die a few times, buff attack sorties up an A8 or 109 and go looking for buffs, try to keep a field capped. If you a wing kinda guy go wingy.
My advice ... forget the scoring and play the game the way it allows you to. There is so much to do.
Do not game the game though. Most times I go up I have some sort of plan related to game strategy.. I don't usually just up willy nilly go looking for a fight. The fight usually runs into me and there have been some good ones lately. If I'm in a fight and see 1 guy coming or 2, I will try get that 1st guy NOW! set up get some speed and head into the next 2... 2... 2 hehe sometimes I win and sometimes I don't. If I win and I'm bingo fuel or ammo I try to make it home. If I'm in a fight and see 3-4-5 guys coming I'll just stay in that fight until either I win and get nailed or lose and get the same.
Don't complain no one wants to hear it.
Don't HO people, learn to fight and shoot them right. Unless upping a capped field getting vulched. HO away.
Don't play to much < like I did yesterday :uhoh>
Wipe your hands. After all these years , in a really good dogfight just cranking the plane to the max, my palms still get sweaty, I still get the buzz.
Hate your enemy :D
Tell some one when you loose because you choked GF NF or GS NS or <S>
Don't <S> when you win or if some tard salutes you after a 1v4 5 6 slaughter.
<S> a guy that kills you and your pals.. alone.
Call for help if there is a big dar bar headed to your base or just say the number. 65.. 124 easy.
Check your teammates 6 as many as you can but make them good checks. I check guys up to icon range if I see it<6k>. You don't need to be pointed at them either, out the back , back right, the sides, up top. If your looking all around better for you.
Keep your tips up,
Fin
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Anytime you want to go to the DA...
ack-ack
No thanks dream about it! I'm done with you.
Although I have been getting allot of requests lately, maybe a DA week or month is in order.
For all you need to Be's,
Fin
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Ya know guys. I tend to listen more to people I know have other things for a comparison. You can't know something is wrong unless you know what's right. Did we ever have what was right? I dunno. It was fun we know that for sure. it was also much of the same, we didn't have everything we wanted then either, we made due with what we had and immersion carried it the rest of the way. HTC gave us what we begged for.
That said, the peeps that I know are long time vets, have placed issues on the table that all have relevance to the said "problem". There's not a lot I can disagree with. All valid, all the good fight.
But since you are vets, going back many many years and hundreds of thousands of hours logged on, let me drag you all back to a time we all remember, and we all tend to brag about as if every day was bliss.
Remember the AW BBs? Remember BW when it first popped open? I don't know much about WBs sorry. Have any of us not seen the same exact postings 10-12 years ago that we are reading today? Vulching, land grabbing, poor class, one-one fights, who's king of the hill (that day), aimless venting, baby seal smack talk.... I don't know for sure about some of you, but I DO remember reading the same exact complaints. Maybe not in such the same magnitude, maybe it was, but our game needed GAs and moderators for a reason too. I had my days as the village idiot too, yes I was once a baby seal dweeb smack talker too. You're all my friends even if we clashed "back then". But look at me in the eye and tell me the above is not reality. Check 6.
That said
Some of this is like a welders flash to some, if you look too long your eyes will hurt. Revert back to the training some of you had as GAs or Techs in AW. You KNOW how to ignore things. Don't look too long, don't consume yourself with it. IMO Milk Running keeps dweebs away from the good fights. Kinda like kids have a play area out of the way at adult BBQs. Who cares as long as they are out of the way.
If you like the game then stay and lead by example. If your example is weak and negative then you're not helping anything either. Causing mass flight will do nothing to improve it. Maybe we're all waiting for someone (HT) to knock on our doors and present us with a red felt pillow with everything we wished on it. We never got it in AW, we got most of it here, but we will never get it all. Since when are we such failures and whimps that we allow the baby seal game box crowds to claim the sim as a game to be broken?
There is a constant influx of new players, if you want the sim to die, don't allow new players and shame them like FR elitest did in AW and it will die soon enough. What I am saying is, leading by example doesn't stop when the first crews of noobs graduate into acceptable.... it has to keep going. If you're gonna brag about being a long time vet, then we're gonna have to prove it.
Don't pound on HTC about this or that. They gave you a community to run and form, it's our job to police it and keep it within history, and immersion, and most of all fun. No one else is going to set the good examples except us. Stop whining, stop crapping on each other and teach. I don't care how great you are, if your attitude sucks, then you suck. Being a vet does not empower you to claim it, do nothing, then whine about it,.. that's someone who may be a vet, but never "got it", or forgot it.
Take the dern sim back. HTC isn't going to do it for you, the noobs aren't going to do it for you,.. you have to do it for you. Show them how to have fun in immersion of history. Show them how to laugh things off. Get the sim back on track. Points do NOT matter.. the MA is just for practice. events is the real top shelf.
Some say, "well we used to do this and used to shame them over that",.. well,..why did it stop? Crack the whip. What happened to some of you who used to be willing to teach, instead of getting sucked into smack dweeb zones? Who really gave up here, HTC or you? Seems to me he\they are still working and we quit.
Why are you getting all upset and paranoid about a few or several great people leaving? Did you consider that they are leaving because they got sick of towing the line alone? Yes it saddens me too.
If you stop being the complainer and start being the leaders again these people will come back, and noob butts will follow. To leave it up to just few vets to keep things straight, and history not forgotten then maybe you're not doing your job to preserve your community within reason. If you leave this up to just a few bold noble people,..then they will tire and leave. Maybe some of us let them down, maybe it's not all on the noob? If so as vets we have shamed ourselves putting it all on them.
You could be the ultimate best pilot ever, if you're not having fun, it's becomes totally irrelevant in the big picture if you're number 1 every tour. Since when did skill take over immersion and fun? Worried about score and wins is for those who lost their way, or never "got it".
Some of the whining and finger pointing in this thread as to search for blame as to why they are leaving,... may in fact circle around to point at you. If you want these people back and you don't want other people to leave,.. then get off your butts and take the SIM back... not in a cruel way, not being a punk bully know it all,..not shooting your mouth off at dweebs or acting like one,.. take it back by leading by example the right way. DO NOT EXPECT INSTANT RESULTS.... one noob\dweeb at a time it will work out. But it never stops.
If you love the game, as I do, as CorkyJr does, or the others we're so concerned about losing, get up and do something about it,.. DO something. Teach the history, teach etiquette and don't expect perfection...lend a hand in events, lend a hand in training,.. DO something besides belly ache, we're Vikings dern it act like one. This belly aching could be the very thing that's driving people away. "You ran from me, I am better then you",..... so what, if you ain't having fun it's means nothing.
Some of you know me well enough to know, I would do ANYTHING for you IF I can, you want something built, you want help on something, you need graphics for your events page, .. you KNOW I will do it all you have to do is ask and you know that,... Us AWers are like family even if we hated each other, AHers have now been playing long enough to earn that same status, don't be elitist, it's distasteful, allow them into the fold.. You KNOW I am just radical enough to put reality in front of you,.. with good intensions, tough love. And that's what this whine is about,.. hoping I can wake the vets I know, admire and remember to be vets again.
There are a couple suggestions I could make that might inspire some to think about it.
I think some of you have played the game to it's limits and need a new spark. Just a couple thoughts to ponder that I am sure have been said before.
1) Create an arena where is full 100% realism, no combat trim, no flight aids, straight up full tilt poker. Anything that was set for noobs, gut it for this arena. Make it so it doesn't even work. Give the vets something else to achieve, another rung on the ladder to climb. Not to cause separation or division in the masses but simply because the game needs a new approach, something new\fresh\different, expansion. PBJs get old every day.
2) Let Moderators be seen, knowing from experience you don't have to say or do a dern thing just the visual alone will stop some things from getting blown out of purportion. I used my game name in both personal flights and Mod\GA flights I never had a problem with it. Although some prefer two accounts. It doesn't create miracles but it DOES help. The whole time I was a GA in AW I only used my powers 2 times, once being in a scenario. Most of that is because they knew me or someone else was there which caused second thoughts you don't have to place yourself in their face, just wonder in from time to time. If a situation is out of hand you become the voice of reason in private and talk them down from jumping off the cliff. Most times they end up respecting you in the end, it's skill train for it. Most everyone involved in events etc.. has already had that training.
But from what I learned, you learn the most about flying and your mistakes when you fight a friend. You won't learn anything but how to talk smack when you fight personal enemies. Rivals is great, making personal enemies is unhealthy, not only for you, but the whole community who has to read\watch it.
If you want to fly old school there are still plenty of us here to do it with. Oldman, CorkyJr and many others have offered many times,.they will give you old school on a silver plater, take it. When someone sees how much fun you have with it they will want it too,.. again, their butts will follow.
I'm sorry if I wasted your time with this. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this. But IMO, these are things that MAY need to be said. And maybe I'm just still just a village idiot. <shrug>
So lets pull up our pants, act like the Vikings we are and do something about this. Those who left will be over-joyed to return, help them pull the line that makes the sim,...a sim. It takes a special person to be a simmer, any moron can be a gamer.
That is all,...beat me as you feel you should.
#1 rule = Fun First. Supreme skill is an added bonus.
#2 rule = Arenas are just for practice.
<S>
Animl
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Ya know guys. (snipped a Damned Good READ )
#1 rule = Fun First. Supreme skill is an added bonus.
#2 rule = Arenas are just for practice.
<S>
Animl
nuff said! well done Animl ~S~
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Short story patially good, partially bad. First the bad part:
I was out on a milk run one day in a set of AR-234's to a Rook city. I had one of my better drops taking 30+ percent of the City in a single full speed pass at 415 mph. I throttled off, turned for home and throttled back up.
Soon I was being chased by a 262. I was now at 16,500 feet running along at 470 mph headed home and starting to get low on fuel. The 262 eventually caught up to me and I lifted the nose in F3 mode and opened fire. So did he. We both scored hits and one of my 234's (formation) went down.
I put the nose down and dove at over 500 mph for a friendly base, manouvering just enough not to lose my last drone but enough to keep him from hitting me. As I pulled over the field ack at almost 600 mph the nose was lifting because I forgot to turn off combat trim but he pulled off.
I cut throttle and gently turned back to base as he flew off after chasing me for about five sectors with that far to go again to get home.
Now the good part:
After I landed I PM'd the guy; "That was fun!"
His response(s): "Yeah. Good flying and good shooting. You took out two of my guns. Damn those things are fast." ending with "I'm glad that my first encounter with 234's in a 262 was against you."
Now maybe he meant that he was glad to shoot down a highly ranked player but I prefer to think it was because I sent him a PM for a fun encounter even though I lost a perk plane. And it really was fun.
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Well said Animl.
asw
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Good post Animl. Another suggestion...maybe it would be a good time to shuffle up the teams we play on. Play with guys you are normally fighting. IDs over time can be a bad memory. Hearing that ID's voice and flying with them is like a salve.
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Posts as long as Animls I never read. But I read every word of that one, and glad i did. Thanks, I needed that. :salute
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If you like the game then stay and lead by example.
Hi Animl...LTNS.
I argue that the current environment hampers self policing and leading by example. Guys that cannot manage to average one whole kill for every death run their mouths like they are the hottest **** in the game. I've watched players who are not only among the best sticks in the game, but also give of their time in events and helping people completely disrespected on channel by a bunch of tardlings, or mass reported. Not that they couldn't handle themselves in a verbal joust, but I see stuff we would never have dreamed of years ago, because you'd have been made a community outcast for pulling much of the crap I see. There is a sub-culture where the players are completely clueless of how incompetent they are in what we consider "skills", have no concept that AH is primarily a combat simulator over a war game, and at the same time are among the most arrogant players in the game. The anonymity level is high enough during peak that I don't see leading by example as being an effective option. This one is funny...but also, not...The anonymity level is so high that I've been told about once a month for the last six months to "go to the TA" by some tardling who can't post a whole number in k/d or k/s.
This prevailing attitude shows through in gameplay environment. A lot of the gameplay people complain about are valid tactics under a given set of circumstances. I do not believe they should be "eliminated" in any way. But at the same time those "issues" should not be the ONLY trick in so many players bags. Yet they are, and that's why the complaints are so prevailant.
I'd like to see a change in the environment structure so that 95% of the playerbase is not swimming in the same cesspool. The arena split two years ago was supposed to do that, but in my opinion the existence of open planeset arenas prevent it from being effective.
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I agree that Animl's post was good.
I posted this once upon a time in the Help and Training forum:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,217767.0.html
Initially, I was surprised by the responses. Today I'm surprised at the number of times it's been read. I did this truely from my heart late one night. I think that other "vets" need to do something similar from time to time if we want to guide new players to be worthy opponents.
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Hi Animl...LTNS.
I argue that the current environment hampers self policing and leading by example. Guys that cannot manage to average one whole kill for every death run their mouths like they are the hottest **** in the game. I've watched players who are not only among the best sticks in the game, but also give of their time in events and helping people completely disrespected on channel by a bunch of tardlings, or mass reported. Not that they couldn't handle themselves in a verbal joust, but I see stuff we would never have dreamed of years ago, because you'd have been made a community outcast for pulling much of the crap I see. There is a sub-culture where the players are completely clueless of how incompetent they are in what we consider "skills", have no concept that AH is primarily a combat simulator over a war game, and at the same time are among the most arrogant players in the game. The anonymity level is high enough during peak that I don't see leading by example as being an effective option. This one is funny...but also, not...The anonymity level is so high that I've been told about once a month for the last six months to "go to the TA" by some tardling who can't post a whole number in k/d or k/s.
This prevailing attitude shows through in gameplay environment. A lot of the gameplay people complain about are valid tactics under a given set of circumstances. I do not believe they should be "eliminated" in any way. But at the same time those "issues" should not be the ONLY trick in so many players bags. Yet they are, and that's why the complaints are so prevailant.
I'd like to see a change in the environment structure so that 95% of the playerbase is not swimming in the same cesspool. The arena split two years ago was supposed to do that, but in my opinion the existence of open planeset arenas prevent it from being effective.
I agree. I like to talk some smack on 200 as we all know, I actually need to do it a bit to get in the mood to kill people. I'm naturally a very non-violent person in real life, so I have to incite some emotional intensity to get myself frisky. When someone I recently killed starts poking me with a stick, the first thing I do is look at their sheet. I don't look at their "RANK" I look at their "STATS". And I don't just look at their fighter stats either. I look at attack sorties too as most like to put their "vulch-fest with a perk ride" hops in the fighter category and their normal, average hops in the attack category, so attack sorties are quite often a better representation of a person's effectiveness.
If the person poking me with a stick has 4 kills in 500 hops a 1% hit % and 1 kill every 2 hrs, they get called on it in hall of shame fashion, then publicly advised to zip it pending them getting a clue. However, if a person has 300 kills in 75 hops, a 10% hit % and 7 kills/hr they get to play smack-warrior with me and it's all fun, they deserve to be there yak'ing it up.
Some people like to say things like, "Zazen, don't be mean" or "Rank means nothing". Well, first of all it has has nothing to do with rank, it's just a simple matter of being effective, either you can seal the deal vs. enemy fighters in the MA or you can't. If you can't, you need to zip it, watch and learn. If you can then I don't need to explain this to you, because you're already there and know what I am talking about. I seriously don't care how fabulous you are in the DA jerking your dweebfire around 1 vs 1 at 5k. If you can only cash it in for 4 kills in 500 hops in the MA, you're of no use to me, yourself or anyone else in the MA and you certainly shouldn't be poking people with a stick who are effective, practice humility and you will learn faster.
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The game is dead guys, To me it doesn't really represent what WW11 air combat was about anymore.
I have been playing since AH1 and gameplay is in a downward spiral.
As it is now, it appeals more to the Xbox and nintendo players.
I have been keeping myself away from playing this game, The Main Arena's make no sense to me.
That's just defeatist. This sort of attitude is as bad as what it denounces. The game is fine. It's the same game that was such a thrill on day 1, or even better if you consider the additions since then. Yes, there's been setbacks in development, but poop happens. The devs have the right intentions and are good at what they do. Things aren't looking down in that respect.
The problem is the flux of new players in and old ones out. The culture that brought out the best of the game is diluted by the new players who don't know about it, somehow don't get it, don't care about, or some combination of those types of perspectives.
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Maybe a " changing of the guard " point been reached, I don't know. In the end, this game is like anything in life, it's what you make of it. If you already got it in your head that the game has down hill, then for you it has...For me, when I quit my squad last year..I had reached point where I wasn't having fun and I was deploying anyways so I left..My solo career ended after a day and I joined the squad I am currently. Not being a CO and a being just player I started to have fun again. I don't moniitor 200(helps me out alot). This game is still fun and there still some experinced players left that make it that way ie.. Lynx, Murdr, Baldeagl,Animl..etc.. I don't have any problems asking someone from another squad or even another country for help...sometimes squaddies cant offer destructive critism....( I said destructive...trust me..it works for me).. :salute
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I'm sorry if I wasted your time with this. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this. But IMO, these are things that MAY need to be said. And maybe I'm just still just a village idiot. <shrug>
So lets pull up our pants, act like the Vikings we are and do something about this. Those who left will be over-joyed to return, help them pull the line that makes the sim,...a sim. It takes a special person to be a simmer, any moron can be a gamer.
That is all,...beat me as you feel you should.
#1 rule = Fun First. Supreme skill is an added bonus.
#2 rule = Arenas are just for practice.
<S>
Animl
Good post man.. I keep popping back in the forums hoping things have changed.. I always liked this sim, but hated the direction the community had gone in. Out of all the posts I've read since I stopped flying your post is the one that makes me miss the game the most.
As for your suggestions, I would love to see a full realism server.. That would defiantly get me back at the stick.
:salute
who knows, maybe I have a 2 weeker stint coming soon.
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I find it odd in a thread about how gameplay has deteriorated partially due to stats and score, that stats and score are then turned around by some vets and used as a measuring stick for whether or not you can say anything in game. My "Sheet" is terrible but after 13 years, with granted limited time to fly lately, if someone deserves a poking their gonna get it. Pick a better example and get the emphasis off score and back onto the details of the fight.
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Personally I think the game has gotten better and better in the last 1 to 2 years Ive been in it. Better planes, better vehicles, WS support, better training assets. The squads Ive either flown in, or with, have all been great. I think HiTech has done a remarkable job of getting a crew together to design a game both challenging enough to play in for many years, but also easy enough for noobs to get up to speed quickly.
I'm always telling noobs to get with a trainer because the training machine in AH is a strong one as long as its used. A new player can get up to speed fairly quickly.
No names mentioned but I remember one rook we had who was a good guy, I liked flying with him, but he could be a bit miserable and condescending too. Anyway one day , oh about 6 months ago, we were in a big furball and I head a big "whoosh" go by. It was a Temp going about warp factor 9 that nobody saw and killed this guy with the cannon. This player must have been in his 50s or 60s and you should have heard him go off screaming bloody murder because the "rest of us" never gave him a check 6. And that was it. The last I ever heard from him and I never saw him in the game again on any side. And this was a long time very skilled player.
I remember thinking if a supposed adult got that upset over his little cartoon cyber airplane getting shot up then maybe he has other issues in his life and the game is just the thing he blames. We've all know those kinda people that couldn't have a positive thought if their life depended on it right? But if anyone thinks that problems in an internet game matter a whole lot then maybe they should go take a walk thru a childrens cancer ward sometime. I myself dont think its that important no matter how many times ADD 14yos HO and ram me.
Maybe one day I'll just be bored with it, tho I doubt it. As it stands I think this is a great game and just getting better all the time.
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Personally I think the game has gotten better and better in the last 1 to 2 years Ive been in it. Better planes, better vehicles, WS support, better training assets. The squads Ive either flown in, or with, have all been great. I think HiTech has done a remarkable job of getting a crew together to design a game both challenging enough to play in for many years, but also easy enough for noobs to get up to speed quickly.
I'm always telling noobs to get with a trainer because the training machine in AH is a strong one as long as its used. A new player can get up to speed fairly quickly.
No names mentioned but I remember one rook we had who was a good guy, I liked flying with him, but he could be a bit miserable and condescending too. Anyway one day , oh about 6 months ago, we were in a big furball and I head a big "whoosh" go by. It was a Temp going about warp factor 9 that nobody saw and killed this guy with the cannon. This player must have been in his 50s or 60s and you should have heard him go off screaming bloody murder because the "rest of us" never gave him a check 6. And that was it. The last I ever heard from him and I never saw him in the game again on any side. And this was a long time very skilled player.
I remember thinking if a supposed adult got that upset over his little cartoon cyber airplane getting shot up then maybe he has other issues in his life and the game is just the thing he blames. We've all know those kinda people that couldn't have a positive thought if their life depended on it right? But if anyone thinks that problems in an internet game matter a whole lot then maybe they should go take a walk thru a childrens cancer ward sometime. I myself dont think its that important no matter how many times ADD 14yos HO and ram me.
Maybe one day I'll just be bored with it, tho I doubt it. As it stands I think this is a great game and just getting better all the time.
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yaa.
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Oopsed
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Ive been here a few years now an I just dont get it why so much whining goes on.Your here to have fun and thats it.when you lose the fun maybe it is time to leave.Man if I cried eveytime some 10 yr old killed me that is all I could do.big deal grab another cartoon vehicle an do it again.My squaddies is what I look forward to.teaming up doing missions or alliance missions.you will not gain anything that relates to real worldsituations.a high rank an a dollar will get ya a cup of coffee.
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a high rank an a dollar will get ya a cup of coffee.
... and babes too ... don't forget the babes !!!
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Ive been here a few years now an I just dont get it why so much whining goes on.Your here to have fun and thats it.when you lose the fun maybe it is time to leave.Man if I cried eveytime some 10 yr old killed me that is all I could do.big deal grab another cartoon vehicle an do it again.My squaddies is what I look forward to.teaming up doing missions or alliance missions.you will not gain anything that relates to real worldsituations.a high rank an a dollar will get ya a cup of coffee.
I don't look at it as "crying", most of us are just sad to see it go and would like to see it come back. You "new guys" that have only played a year or two don't see any difference because thats the way its always been to you. Look at it this way.... we have a decent amusement park here. There are a couple of good rides, the food court hasn't had someone die in awhile and the grease is only a year or so old in the fryers. All in all its a fun place to hang out. Now 5 years ago, picture a brand new 6 Flags ! Just about every ride was a trill a minute, people where pleasant and helpful, the food was fresh it was more fun than you should be able to have with your cloths on ! :D Thats the kind of difference we are talking here.
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I dont think you can tell anything from rank, except maybe the hit percentage from each stat rank represents. My rank and stats have always been poor, but I generally put up a good fight against most people.
The way I choose to fly, just go into a mass of red and see how long I can last, and try to take as many with me as I can, doesnt make for good stats. However, I get a guy to chase me away from that mass of red, theres a good chance hes gonna die.
Thats why I feel rank has no purpose except for those that dont get anything else out of the game.
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I dont think you can tell anything from rank, except maybe the hit percentage from each stat rank represents. My rank and stats have always been poor, but I generally put up a good fight against most people.
The way I choose to fly, just go into a mass of red and see how long I can last, and try to take as many with me as I can, doesnt make for good stats. However, I get a guy to chase me away from that mass of red, theres a good chance hes gonna die.
Thats why I feel rank has no purpose except for those that dont get anything else out of the game.
I semi play for rank. I'm probably the least gamiest player that does. I don't milk run in buffs. At least I haven't for 2 years. Although I did do an experiment yesterday. I sent those results to your main man Apdrone btw. Now I know you don't play for rank as none of the Nightmares do. But when you see it you will be aghast and yet find it absolutely humorous and shake your heads. Haven't done any jabo runs to the factories either and maybe 2x been to a factory in a gv in the last year. By the time I got there all I had to shoot at was the train. Which I really enjoy shooting at the train for some strange reason. My guess, left over childhood trauma.
Most of my flight time is spent in missions and helping my country and my squad (If I haven't left for the umpteenth time)
PS. Keep the results of that experiment quiet. I explained the reason in the PM I sent Drone.
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Ive been here a few years now an I just dont get it why so much whining goes on.Your here to have fun and thats it.when you lose the fun maybe it is time to leave.Man if I cried eveytime some 10 yr old killed me that is all I could do.big deal grab another cartoon vehicle an do it again.My squaddies is what I look forward to.teaming up doing missions or alliance missions.you will not gain anything that relates to real worldsituations.a high rank an a dollar will get ya a cup of coffee.
:aok :salute
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I dont think you can tell anything from rank, except maybe the hit percentage from each stat rank represents.
I often fly through hangars and bail or auger. I also tend to shoot at trees alot. I think many probably do. So the hit % is a little misleading too. Simply rank means nothing except to new folks who do not know that it can be so easily manipulated. I suggest just play your game and have fun.
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I dont think you can tell anything from rank, except maybe the hit percentage from each stat rank represents. My rank and stats have always been poor, but I generally put up a good fight against most people.
The way I choose to fly, just go into a mass of red and see how long I can last, and try to take as many with me as I can, doesnt make for good stats. However, I get a guy to chase me away from that mass of red, theres a good chance hes gonna die.
Thats why I feel rank has no purpose except for those that dont get anything else out of the game.
Hit percentage can get skewed as well. Lets say someone is flying a p51 and is a reasonably good shot. He could get a pretty high hit percentage fairly easy just by the amount of lead in the air. Then take a single shot bird like a K4. It might only take one 30mm to kill another plane, but if you shoot a average of 5 to 8 rounds to get that 1 hit you could end up with a real crappy hit percentage even if you are a good shot. Reason being there is much less lead in the air so the hits and misses become more drastic as a percentage.
At least that is what I always assumed by looking at that stat.
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Then take a single shot bird like a K4. It might only take one 30mm to kill another plane, but if you shoot a average of 5 to 8 rounds to get that 1 hit you could end up with a real crappy hit percentage even if you are a good shot.
If you need only 5 to 8 rounds for 1 kill, that's FAR from being crappy: 12.5% - 20%. Or 8-12 kills for a full 65 rounds loadout.
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Folks leave for all of the reasons posted because it is what each individual desires this Sim/Game to be within their individual experiences and this is the reason that this Sim/Game is no longer fun to them, as individuals.
The rest of us stay because we seek the "Karma" that those who've left, found... before they found that they were once,us.
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If you need only 5 to 8 rounds for 1 kill, that's FAR from being crappy: 12.5% - 20%. Or 8-12 kills for a full 65 rounds loadout.
Is the score a percentage value from the total ammo load out or rounds shot? I'm assuming it's rounds shot that. If so the missed shots would add up over the course of a tour. The 1 kill per 5 to 8 rounds shot is not a real in game example, just numbers I used for example.
Also even if someone averaged 1 kill for every 5 to 8 shots it doesn't mean they would land 8 or 12 kills.. It means they took their time and set up the right shots. This likely would mean they would likely not land a hell of a lot of kills. You just don't have the fuel load out in that plane to land that many kills if you are taking the time to set up kills to keep a good percentage.
Not unless they vulch, that is.. Which is another crutch that can be used to pad the hit precentage score.
The point I was making, is by flying a plane able to put more lead in the air, you can skew the score by the amount of ammo you are able to shoot. You can get many more hits and over the course of a tour that is going to average out the misses for you.
Meanwhile if you are flying a single shot plane, you simply can not put the same amount of lead in the air, which makes each miss more of an impact over the course of a tour.
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If you need only 5 to 8 rounds for 1 kill, that's FAR from being crappy: 12.5% - 20%. Or 8-12 kills for a full 65 rounds loadout.
I don't feel so bad now...thanks Lusche :)
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Well...here is one of the reasons....
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,256564.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,256564.0.html)
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I often fly through hangars and bail or auger. I also tend to shoot at trees alot. I think many probably do. So the hit % is a little misleading too. Simply rank means nothing except to new folks who do not know that it can be so easily manipulated. I suggest just play your game and have fun.
Ya, to be honest I agree, I was just trying to find something that rank could count towards. Yesterday our dear pal Drdeath..or NurseChapel as he will henceforth be referred to, informed me as we were defending a base, that since he had a better rank, he was a better sim pilot. I asked if he honestly believed that. He said yes. At first I was a little shocked...mainly that I was kind of winging with someone with that mentality, but then after I had time to think about it, I was saddened. What a mess.
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Ya, to be honest I agree, I was just trying to find something that rank could count towards. Yesterday our dear pal Drdeath..or NurseChapel as he will henceforth be referred to, informed me as we were defending a base, that since he had a better rank, he was a better sim pilot. I asked if he honestly believed that. He said yes. At first I was a little shocked...mainly that I was kind of winging with someone with that mentality, but then after I had time to think about it, I was saddened. What a mess.
Depends on who you compare him to. We used to have a hospital here where the worst of the worst psychotic criminals were housed and other assorted, variable, Loons who posed great danger to society. Compared to them Death comes off a star, a regular "June Cleaver" freshly scrubbed and powdered.
Apples and oranges. This guy thought a dog was telling him to go out and shoot people in the face with a .44
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/son_of_sam.jpg)
And then compared to Death. See my point?
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/june.jpg)
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nuff said! well done Animl ~S~
Absolutely! Animl always did have a way with getting the proper perspective into words.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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I download to much pr0n and do too much work from home to have time to play.
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i aint played much since the announcement that TOD/CT was canned. seems the game is getting less and less tactical and more and more quake like.
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Depends on who you compare him to. We used to have a hospital here where the worst of the worst psychotic criminals were housed and other assorted, variable, Loons who posed great danger to society. Compared to them Death comes off a star, a regular "June Cleaver" freshly scrubbed and powdered.
Apples and oranges. This guy thought a dog was telling him to go out and shoot people in the face with a .44
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/son_of_sam.jpg)
And then compared to Death. See my point?
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/june.jpg)
...actually, you are comparing a real world socio-path with a TV mom.....trying to make an analogy to a computer game comparison. BTW, you might wanna stop listening to your dog. :devil
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Meanwhile if you are flying a single shot plane, you simply can not put the same amount of lead in the air, which makes each miss more of an impact over the course of a tour.
While your statement is true, your conclusion is not supported by the statement. Just as you think each miss will have a greater impact on your hit %, each hit will also have a bigger impact on RAISING you hit %. So while the standard deviation is greater in a slower fire rate plane, your statement that planes like the p51 have an advantage do to fire rate is false.
HiTech
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falls = false :aok
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falls = false :aok
Ok..that being said.....
do=due :aok
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:rofl
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Ok..that being said.....
do=due :aok
I gotta take do due
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i think they need to go back to small maps the big ones are just to big to be used during the day when there is only 200 people in the arena and if it was one there would be 400 people on during the day
i think it has to do with the arena splitting and the size of the maps to hard to find a good fight
I think we should have small maps only in EW and MW plus LW should always offer a small and a large map. This means a choice in LW and I doubt anyone wants big maps in EW and MW.
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I think we should have small maps only in EW and MW plus LW should always offer a small and a large map. This means a choice in LW and I doubt anyone wants big maps in EW and MW.
I never have seen a large map in EW or MW
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I was wondering if the economy had anything to do with it? A lot of people out of work $180.00 a year for a game might not be in people's budgets anymore.
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My problem is that it used to be that when you took a long break and come back to AH you would find yourself to be struggling to fight how you used to and be able to compete in a fight. I come back after a 5 month break due to college and decide to fly during winter break a little. I found that there was no challenge after those 5 months and I didn't find myself struggling that much to what I was used in face I was still able to compete in the 3v1s and this is not what I am used to when I have taken breaks before. To me this is the biggest frustration in the game for me is the skill level has diminished drastically and when there is no challenge I don't find it to be much fun.
There are way too many people that want to race for the altitude and see who can get higher to do the gangpicking/cherry picking and run away when a fight gets to a point where they will get close to a challenge in their picking. I have seen this being done in planes such as hurris and spits and imo is getting pretty lame. Majority of the time that I flew during my winter break I had to face this lame gangpicking and the game just kept getting more discouraging and I refuse to climb to the extremely high altitudes that they fly as I rarely fly above 10k. When getting gangpicked over an enemy base at 10k its pretty sad. A gangpick shouldn't take more than 20 seconds to shoot someone down especially with a gang of 7 picking on 1 but when surviving for 2-3 minutes and they still cant shoot you down its evident that this skill level has diminished way too much to be enjoyable.
People are way too worried about their scores and stats and imo is what is ruining the game as well as the race to reset as mentioned before. The timidity in the game is just so frustrating that finding a good fight is hard. Im not talking about a massive hoard vs hoard where its full of gangpicking but rather a fight where people are of equal alts usually nothing higher than 8k and having a good fight granted they still occur but happen so rarely that its more likely to see hell freeze over first.
I haven't decided if I will come back in May when college gets out but if the gameplay doesn't improve I don't see myself staying long.
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Been playing this game a long time. Been playing other flying games longer.
I no longer fly nearly as much. Most is computer/game issues. I get screen freezes and stutters at all the wrong times, seem to lose every collision, even when hit from behind, and seem to get shut down by ENY the few times a month I do log on. With so much else going on in life, AH no longer seems worth the hassles.
Only reason I keep my account is 'cause I like spending a couple of hours each week with the guys that I've met through the game.
If I was new to flying, none of this would probably matter. I still remember just how cool the whole concept of flying online with real people was. But now, the hassles of logging in and dealing with all the "improvements" made to the game over the years just isn't worth it unless it is squad night.
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If all the Old timers leave, this game is done.
I dont really see this as true.Theres gonna be more and more quake mentality players coming in and they will all be happy chest thumping all the gaming the game that goes on.Not that this didnt happen in AW any.It did but on a much smaller scale,and it was looked down on.Now its the norm.Thats what changed.The mentality of the average player is score motivated and vidio gaming promotes that.This has become less of a simulation orientated game and more of a score oriented game with all the "afraid to get in there and put it on the line" action.
Pretty dam sad to see this happen but its not HT's fault.Its the gaming industry as a whole.
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I'll tell you what. I'm in week three of my break and I feel great.
The first week was horrible, but after that I didn't think about it very much. I still have my account so I know I can play anytime I want. And knowing that, I don't feel so obsessed.
I'm thinking maybe this weekend would be a good time to up once again. :salute
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I dont think you can tell anything from rank, except maybe the hit percentage from each stat rank represents. My rank and stats have always been poor, but I generally put up a good fight against most people.
The way I choose to fly, just go into a mass of red and see how long I can last, and try to take as many with me as I can, doesnt make for good stats. However, I get a guy to chase me away from that mass of red, theres a good chance hes gonna die.
Thats why I feel rank has no purpose except for those that dont get anything else out of the game.
+1 here filth <S>
Is there a way we can visually ID someone who is up for a fight? Something like a symbol next to the plane ID when you see a con? That would be an option you could choose to highlight or not, depending on your style of gameplay?
Example, your flying along and then see a pony, next to the plane and distance ID there's a small star or something, that would indicate that your up for a 1v1 or basically looking for a fight etc.
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Everyone should be up for a fight. If not then they are in the wrong game.
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Everyone should be up for a fight. If not then they are in the wrong game.
You said it ! Thats the only problem with this game, too many folks looking for a way to avoid a fight :(
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You said it ! Thats the only problem with this game, too many folks looking for a way to avoid a fight :(
But isn't capturing a base that's lightly defended with a sneak attack fighting? [/sarcasm]
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You said it ! Thats the only problem with this game, too many folks looking for a way to avoid a fight :(
I can't speak for the crowd, but when I think of engaging a bandit, it is not only the considerations of fighting HIM that go through my mind, but whether or not I am likely to down the bandit in a timely manner before my commitment to that particular engagement has made me hopelessly vulnerable to being cornered by superior numbers or saddled by a much superior angles fighter taking advantage of the situation. In situations that just seem odd-like a bandit refusing to engage in what seems to be a similar-aircraft co-E 1v1-you must ask yourself whether they are being extremely timid or have simply been taught over and over that to commit in the MA is often to be saddled, picked, or ganged. Let me say, it might be better, even ideal, if the policy was to let two combatants who were locked in a "duel" go at it to the finish, but it is NOT that way and flying as if it were mostly yields only frustration, at least in my experience.
Which doesn't ever bring up landgrabbery, another subject entirely.
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landgrabbery
This word made me laugh and makes me think of one of my favorite Venture Bros. lines.
"waylaid by love muffinery"
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+1 here filth <S>
Is there a way we can visually ID someone who is up for a fight? Something like a symbol next to the plane ID when you see a con? That would be an option you could choose to highlight or not, depending on your style of gameplay?
Example, your flying along and then see a pony, next to the plane and distance ID there's a small star or something, that would indicate that your up for a 1v1 or basically looking for a fight etc.
My issue with one-one is I remember reading WWII history where pilots from both sides would back off while a German or Japanese and American went at it one on one. Everyone just circled watching until they finished so someone else could go one on one. And if you interrupted a one-one the Geneva convention would punish you and your country.
Are you people kidding me? MAs and one-one should not be used in the same sentence. I could have sworn that's what the DA is for. <shrug>
Animl <quietly backs out of room>
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I'll tell you what. I'm in week three of my break and I feel great.
I broke down over the weekend and put 30 mins in the MWA. Yeah, this is not even funny any more :lol. However, the blame is on the players and not the game or the makers of. I just got bored of the game the way it is. Nothing really changing for a long time has absolutely nothing to do with me getting bored of it :aok And for as long as new people are coming in, no one will care that anyone got bored and left after 5 years.
That being said, I ll probably never cancel the account just in case, lol. Don;t you see? I am the perfect customer :D
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My issue with one-one is I remember reading WWII history where pilots from both sides would back off while a German or Japanese and American went at it one on one. Everyone just circled watching until they finished so someone else could go one on one. And if you interrupted a one-one the Geneva convention would punish you and your country.
Are you people kidding me? MAs and one-one should not be used in the same sentence. I could have sworn that's what the DA is for. <shrug>
Animl <quietly backs out of room>
If I'm having a good 1 on 1, winning or loosing, and a friendly starts to come in I'll ask him to stay out. When my request is ignored thats just plain disrespect. I don't care that it's the MAs or whatever excuse you want to give; it's annoying and down right rude.
Not to say all will ignore the request. Hell, some even still ask me if I need any help or if they can join in. But the numbers of mindless drones looking to end my fights for me so they can have an easy kill annoys the hell out of me.
And besides that, I'm sure in the real war there were tons of flights made up of spitfires, nikis, p51s, and lala's all working together right? Don't give me that "it's just like in ww2" crap.
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I can't speak for the crowd, but when I think of engaging a bandit, it is not only the considerations of fighting HIM that go through my mind, but whether or not I am likely to down the bandit in a timely manner before my commitment to that particular engagement has made me hopelessly vulnerable to being cornered by superior numbers or saddled by a much superior angles fighter taking advantage of the situation. In situations that just seem odd-like a bandit refusing to engage in what seems to be a similar-aircraft co-E 1v1-you must ask yourself whether they are being extremely timid or have simply been taught over and over that to commit in the MA is often to be saddled, picked, or ganged. Let me say, it might be better, even ideal, if the policy was to let two combatants who were locked in a "duel" go at it to the finish, but it is NOT that way and flying as if it were mostly yields only frustration, at least in my experience.
Which doesn't ever bring up landgrabbery, another subject entirely.
At least your in the fight ! Sure your K/D may be more important, or your squad op mission may be more important, but your still in the fight with those parameters. Mission are great as long as your willing to work for the goal, FIGHT for it ! These guys go out of their way to AVOID the fights, and admit that when one pops up they go someplace else ! Thats not to point of the game.
Animl, this isn't a real war, the same rules don't apply. If I see a guy in a 1 vs 1 I'll ask if he wants help, if he says no, I stay out of it. The other day I asked one guy, and he said no. I was circling over head watching the fight from 3-4k out and noticed he was loosing ( other guy had gotten his 6). I asked again with, "are you sure you don't need help, your suppose to get them in front of you to shoot them". After a laugh he said no and I continued on my way to the front. Thats the kind of think we use to see all the time, respect the guys wishes even when they are loosing. Its how I would like people to treat me if they happen to fly over. Also, if after fighting one guy for 10 minutes and I'm not doing so good, I'd rather see the guy who beat me get the kill than some cherry picker that came booming through at the end.
Just a little class, Just a little honor........ I know, I know.... "It's just a game!"
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My issue with one-one is I remember reading WWII history where pilots from both sides would back off while a German or Japanese and American went at it one on one. Everyone just circled watching until they finished so someone else could go one on one. And if you interrupted a one-one the Geneva convention would punish you and your country.
Are you people kidding me? MAs and one-one should not be used in the same sentence. I could have sworn that's what the DA is for. <shrug>
Animl <quietly backs out of room>
The DA is basically furball fishbowl. Most are content in there to go at it in the same style as the MAs. Pick, take turns being the hoard, and run. There are exceptions, but you just gotta be on the right time of night to find them.
If all there was in this game was the P51 (most times I think thats all there is) , Im thinking alot of the population wouldnt like it because the planes were too close in performance, and the options for escape fewer. Anytime you strip away a guys advantages and force him to fight it out, it tells the guy 1 of 2 things. I better learn to run sooner, or I better learn to fight it out to the end. Preferrably the latter.
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Are you people kidding me? MAs and one-one should not be used in the same sentence.
We never kid, Animal. You know that.
I had just a few minutes late this afternoon, so I stopped into the blue late war arena to see how the other half lives and to do some A8 penance time. I ran into two co-alt P-38s. One of them engaged me, and the other one stayed out until the first fight was over. I was very impressed; this was not what I view as typical MA behavior. I wish I could remember the two pilots' names, but the brain is soggy with age.
I thought, "Hey, this is amazing, you know you can make time for Just One More." But during our fight someone had porked the fighter hanger at my field.
That was what I view as typical MA behavior.
Still, it's good to know that there is still honor to be found in the MA.
- oldman
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At least your in the fight ! Sure your K/D may be more important, or your squad op mission may be more important, but your still in the fight with those parameters. Mission are great as long as your willing to work for the goal, FIGHT for it ! These guys go out of their way to AVOID the fights, and admit that when one pops up they go someplace else ! Thats not to point of the game.
Animl, this isn't a real war, the same rules don't apply. If I see a guy in a 1 vs 1 I'll ask if he wants help, if he says no, I stay out of it. The other day I asked one guy, and he said no. I was circling over head watching the fight from 3-4k out and noticed he was loosing ( other guy had gotten his 6). I asked again with, "are you sure you don't need help, your suppose to get them in front of you to shoot them". After a laugh he said no and I continued on my way to the front. Thats the kind of think we use to see all the time, respect the guys wishes even when they are loosing. Its how I would like people to treat me if they happen to fly over. Also, if after fighting one guy for 10 minutes and I'm not doing so good, I'd rather see the guy who beat me get the kill than some cherry picker that came booming through at the end.
Just a little class, Just a little honor........ I know, I know.... "It's just a game!"
Read between the lines. Don't be so literal, there is sarcasm everywhere. :)
I usually ask if they need help or not as well.
It's one thing to respect someone wanting no one else involved, it's another *demanding it* in the MAs as if every fight should be a one-one in a horde. I understand what you're saying, but certain peeps take everything past it's meant limits.
Animl
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well, the reason i havent been on in over 6 months, is i personally dont like the direction the game is going, always same maps every day, there almost un-beatable, i want it to be put back to how it used to be, with fighter town and all, and i had been playin this game over 5
years
-BigBOBCH
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We never kid, Animal. You know that.
I had just a few minutes late this afternoon, so I stopped into the blue late war arena to see how the other half lives and to do some A8 penance time. I ran into two co-alt P-38s. One of them engaged me, and the other one stayed out until the first fight was over. I was very impressed; this was not what I view as typical MA behavior. I wish I could remember the two pilots' names, but the brain is soggy with age.
I thought, "Hey, this is amazing, you know you can make time for Just One More." But during our fight someone had porked the fighter hanger at my field.
That was what I view as typical MA behavior.
Still, it's good to know that there is still honor to be found in the MA.
- oldman
>We never kid, Animal. You know that.
<snork!>
I believe in letting one-one's be, the problem I notice is watching guys fly into a horde and whine about being ganged or no one-ones.... that's my point. It's probably not as good as we wished, and probably not as bad as some people preach. It's somewhere in the middle, as usual.
> Still, it's good to know that there is still honor to be found in the MA.
Absolutely. Late at night, after prime time is when you see more of what should be. Next time you're up past say midnight come in the MA, it's not that bad. Actually, the last week or so we've been having a blast, in the late hours. A lot more within reason.
Animl
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In AW you could see who you last shot down and who last shot you down, so there was some personal interest in who you got, rather than how many.
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In AW you could see who you last shot down and who last shot you down, so there was some personal interest in who you got, rather than how many.
Yup the whole arena could also see who killed who instead. "A kill has been recorded". :)
Especially great during dweeb smack, entertaining at the responses etc...
Problem is the population is bigger here in one arena and the text buffer would go mad dog crazy keeping up, you'd barely be able to chat........ hmmm....you may be onto something.
Animl
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lol really...make it so the text buffer only showed that and it was up to pms to commiuncate with enemy.
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I'm gettin as old as they get...yet I don't need to worry about the text of who I've killed....cause frankly , in 6 years here I haven't managed a kill...
nor delegated one neither.
But would drink with a Shill any day
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Well I went back into the cockpit last night and I had a blast. I'm going to try to learn different planes. I was in a pony B last night and it doesn't handle anything like a Ki-84. Weird feeling. I think that may have been part of my issue to begin with. I overused the Ki, and it seemed that I was always looking for a fight with the conditions for advantage and when that wasn't happening and I would get my butt handed to me it lead to frustration. That's just my take on it. :salute
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I am an old player and I'm coming back.
That there is more time for me to play is certainly one reason but I think the one thing that pushed me over was the news that the CT had been put on permanent hold. As an outside observer it always seemed to me that the CT thing was really splitting HTC's talents; there were superficial improvements to the current game but all the eggs were in the CT basket. Everyone just had to wait. And wait. And I wasn't sure I would like it when it got here.
Now, I haven't played in the split arenas nor do I even know how they work yet but I am encouraged that development resources will be focused on the core game perhaps even harking back to the really cool time in AH1 when there was new stuff every couple of months. Some of it worked, some of it didn't but the changes seemed to throw the quake crowd off balance -- their guaranteed 'points' weren't there any more, the game was evolving. It is my hope that this development level will return.
AW will never come back and frankly I don't want it back. This game looks freakin *beautiful* even with less than current graphics. All I can hope for is some good one on one fights, some good squad nights and for HTC to continue to provide an environment where such things are possible.
I will now endeavor to persevere in the practice arenas as currently I suck so badly that to say that I suck is an insult to the word suck.
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I am an old player and I'm coming back.
That there is more time for me to play is certainly one reason but I think the one thing that pushed me over was the news that the CT had been put on permanent hold. As an outside observer it always seemed to me that the CT thing was really splitting HTC's talents; there were superficial improvements to the current game but all the eggs were in the CT basket. Everyone just had to wait. And wait. And I wasn't sure I would like it when it got here.
Now, I haven't played in the split arenas nor do I even know how they work yet but I am encouraged that development resources will be focused on the core game perhaps even harking back to the really cool time in AH1 when there was new stuff every couple of months. Some of it worked, some of it didn't but the changes seemed to throw the quake crowd off balance -- their guaranteed 'points' weren't there any more, the game was evolving. It is my hope that this development level will return.
AW will never come back and frankly I don't want it back. This game looks freakin *beautiful* even with less than current graphics. All I can hope for is some good one on one fights, some good squad nights and for HTC to continue to provide an environment where such things are possible.
I will now endeavor to persevere in the practice arenas as currently I suck so badly that to say that I suck is an insult to the word suck.
All true.
I gotta give HTC credit on the CT thing,...much like AW and AWVN (nam) when they couldn't make it happen they didn't sell out to EA.com, looking for <cough>talent<cough> and $$ to "finish it",... YET :).
It's fine the way it is IMO, I'd like a tweak here or there. But, like I've said on many occasions,...most things here are things we begged for in AW and just ran outta rope. IMO, us older AWers appreciate the simpler things.
You'll see the same trivial complaints hashed, rehashed and run into the ground several times,... everyday. Much like in AW only exaggerated by a larger population,...there's some community issues, nothing really new there.
Me thinks that recommitting their time to the main game was a very smart thing to do, a bummer CT's on hold but,...more likely to see improvements faster. Hell I'm elated about the new terrain that's coming, pretty major in IMO.
That said,... saddle up :)
Animl
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I was just foolin around in my previous post, but if ya want a more thought out and refined response, then here it is...
I live in a neck of the woods where in the 70's there was nothing but fields around our house, as a kid , I played in the meadows and forest's that made up my world.
Well, nowadays, they've built all around us,bulldozed the forest , plowed the streams and filled the ditches.
Now,most of you reading this will understand that this is the 'natural' progression of man, and his drive to build bigger and more populous cities. But I used to be here when there were forests and streams , so it's understandable that I can't even comprehend the modern building their doing here, in my neck of the woods, as an old timer ..it makes me want to leave.
...........except...
....when our house was first put here, there probably was an older resident who looked upon the construction of our home, which bulldozed, dug up and modified the countryside equally as much as the new developments are doing......the same as I complain about.
well..
AH ,the game. AH,the people, are just like the land being built on......as sad as it sounds, the change in the game is parallel to the change in the land. Most people have pride in being the first residents in a hood, and unwittingly , tend to resent the following wave of residents.....so it is in the game.New people are moving in , the neighborhood is expanding and that has to be dealt with.
Many have asked HT to keep the old crew going and all the points necessary to do so. But replace HT with a township. As boss, or township mayor, HT allows all them homes to be built, doing nothing but the job that one would expect....town growth....new residents...taxes..upgrading infrastructure, and all the things that would attract new residents, while unfortunately, in the eyes of the original inhabitants, alienating them. Just as an oldtime resedent of a modernizing neighborhood has to decide to stay put and exist in harmony with the expanding hood, or pack up and move on, is what old time fliers have to deal with here.
so, I guess after all this verbal spewing I've done, I must say that the same argument has been going on since 'progress',was ever given a title. Communities, old and young, expanding or receding have dealt with these same parameters, and this game is no different.
airbumba
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My issue with one-one is I remember reading WWII history where pilots from both sides would back off while a German or Japanese and American went at it one on one. Everyone just circled watching until they finished so someone else could go one on one.
I gotta read this book....... Can't imagine a fighter pilot watching a friendly get shot down if he lost the advantage cause it was a 1 on 1. Never happened and wouldn't happen
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I dunno, I've seen just the opposite. In R/L during WWII, the HO, pick, vulch, BnZ etc etc were the rule, not the exception. Squads worked together and wingmen scraped doo doo off their wingy's tail end. If you encountered an inferiour number of opposing fighters, Great. We all get to go home and they don't. In R/L, if you lose, you might quite likely die. There was no second place and winning was everything. I suspect the type of game play we all hate is probably more closely aligned with real life than we'd like to believe.
Of course, you don't die in game when you go down and you immediately get another plane. This is the odd thing about the current style of play that perplexes me. You really have nothing to lose by fighting. And yet, the cowardice one encounters is astonishing in it's depth. It's even more ridiculous in the DA where you don't even get to keep score. Maybe score does need to be turned off. Just a tally of kills and deaths at the end of the month.
Lets face it, if every time you got shot down in game you got electrocuted into unconciousness, you'd fly a mighty danged conservative game too.
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There is nothing wrong with the game. Yes it has changed, been added to, updated in a world where "graphics" is king. The only problem I see is game PLAY. In the old "neighborhood" we had mostly older guys who where in to the history side of the game more than the "win the game" type of thing. You would spend hours fighting the same guys over and over chatting about each fight as you were on the way back to the fight.
Today I would say 60% or maybe even as much as 70% of the people who play are in it to WIN. Whether that win is your name in lights, top of the score board, or resetting the map that is now the main drive of the majority of players. For every new "history buff" type that joins today we get 3-4 "win the game" types.
Now this split really has nothing to do with the "furballers", "landgrabbers" split. If you think about it, the majority of the furballers are the "win the game" types, they are trying to get their names in light, or to the top of the score boards as fast as they can. On the other side of the coin, a good percentage of the "landgrabbers" are also the history types looking for that massive mission with all of the immersion that goes with it.
Game play has evolved, because on-line gaming has evolved. Is it a good thing? Oldtimers say no, new guys don't know the difference. Oldtimers leave the game, the new guys don't learn anything different and nothing changes. Rules and scoring is set-up to maintain game play in certain parameters. I suggest that the rules and scoring be adjusted to promote better game play.
Change the "name in lights" to needing 3 instead of 2. It will still give those that need a goal to win something to shoot for, but being that much harder to attain it will force people to learn more about fighting as well as fight more to attain that goal.
Change the score page to first only simplified settings. No more figuring in hit percentage and all of the other parameters used now. Fighter is air to air kills, Attack is air to ground kills, buffs are buildings, and GVs are gv kills. Then mark scores on a curve so that the guy who flys 10 hours a month can compete with the guys who fly 300 hours a month. Some thought will have to be made to missions. NOE's would then need "fighters" as well as "attackers". GVers would FIGHT GVers instead of padding their score by flattening a town or factory and then running away. Buffs would ba apprecaited for the ability to take out town with a pass or two of a couple of formations..... giving more targets for A2A fighting both as cover for the buffs and to attack them.
The last thing I would do is add a 1/2 mile radius "no kill" zone around all spawn points, both airfields and GV spawns. Either the kills don't score inside this zone, or you have rubber bullets inside the zone, either would work. This would take away the vulching and spawn camping. Vulching and spawn camping are cheap kills. Those being killed don't stand much of a chance defending themselves. Creating this no kill zone give you options. You can up to defend a base, there by making it a fight. That no kill zone give you time to get wheels up, and some room to get a bit of speed up. It also give you time to check the attack and decide the where and when of how you can get out there a fight. For the GVs, the hunt is on ! How much more fun would it be if you spawn and had a chance to get moving to either join in a battle that was going on, or to set up an ambush for others, instead of the spawn and die as you spin your turret to break the spawn camp over and over again.....padding someones scores.
These changes don't really change the game at all, but it would change the way it was played. It would promote more fighting because that is what you would get rewarded for in the scores and name in lights. Everybody wins. The oldtimers get the game they want....fights for the sake of the fight.... the new players get what they want... a game with clearly defined set of objectives in scoring to win.
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Change the score page to first only simplified settings. No more figuring in hit percentage and all of the other parameters used now.
Scoring for Kills/Sorties and Kills/Time rewards engaging early and often. K/D alone does not.
Hit%...well, I'm not too sure what the point of hit% in fighter score is. Its how effective you are at downing planes, not how effective you are at never wasting ammo, that counts. For instance, if one is flying a Jug and "wasting" a good bit of ammo on every kind of shot that comes along, that is not necessarily a bad thing, the plane has the ammo to waste and it may be worth it to have a chance of destroying/damaging/psychologically disturbing the enemy. Hit% mostly rewards buff hunting or flying tater planes.
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Excellent suggestions Fug', but if there is a no kill zone around bases, how would you attack and capture them? Maybe a short period of invulnerability for those launching to allow a fighting chance and break the spawn camp would be better.
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My issue with one-one is I remember reading WWII history where pilots from both sides would back off while a German or Japanese and American went at it one on one. Everyone just circled watching until they finished so someone else could go one on one.
I gotta read this book....... Can't imagine a fighter pilot watching a friendly get shot down if he lost the advantage cause it was a 1 on 1. Never happened and wouldn't happen
They didn't hit alt-X while they went to the fridge to grab a beer, either.
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Scoring for Kills/Sorties and Kills/Time rewards engaging early and often. K/D alone does not.
Hit%...well, I'm not too sure what the point of hit% in fighter score is. Its how effective you are at downing planes, not how effective you are at never wasting ammo, that counts. For instance, if one is flying a Jug and "wasting" a good bit of ammo on every kind of shot that comes along, that is not necessarily a bad thing, the plane has the ammo to waste and it may be worth it to have a chance of destroying/damaging/psychologically disturbing the enemy. Hit% mostly rewards buff hunting or flying tater planes.
The idea is to simplify the scoring system to give those who are the "win the game" types a clear and defined target to reach those goals. STATS on the other hand are something else entirely! I don't see a problem keeping the stats, I just don't think they should be used in scoring, too many places to "tweak" things.
Excellent suggestions Fug', but if there is a no kill zone around bases, how would you attack and capture them? Maybe a short period of invulnerability for those launching to allow a fighting chance and break the spawn camp would be better.
As long as the town is outside the "no kill" zone I don't see a problem. Hangers can still be flattened, goons can still be killed as well as M3s. The airfield "no kill" zone would give defenders time to get some speed up before they jumped into the fray, even tho enemy will still be lurking over the base. Gvs might try to hide under the blanket, but they won't be able to defend the town from the field, and must come out of the protection to be any help.