General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: nrshida on September 08, 2018, 07:50:49 AM
Title: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 08, 2018, 07:50:49 AM
I think this part of the score is a bit unfair to people who play in off-peak times. For instance it’s not uncommon to chase disappeared darbars and end up bailing out to move to different bases and try again.
Can some allowances be made for arena content?
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 08:54:56 AM
Agreed. I think the entire scoring system is gamey. When you can rank in the top 40 for a tour with only one sortie that’s not good. Maybe a minimum number of sorties to qualify?
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: The Fugitive on September 08, 2018, 09:05:05 AM
Agreed. I think the entire scoring system is gamey. When you can rank in the top 40 for a tour with only one sortie that’s not good. Maybe a minimum number of sorties to qualify?
It seems like those that spend the longer times in the game come out on top as well. I think making the scoring more complicated as well as the formula not being available to the public (much like the ENY formula :rolleyes:) with weighted catagories would make it a truer scale to judge by. As it is now it is far to easy to game.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: RUSH1 on September 08, 2018, 09:07:33 AM
Agreed. I think the entire scoring system is gamey. When you can rank in the top 40 for a tour with only one sortie that’s not good. Maybe a minimum number of sorties to qualify?
You will not stay in the top 40 for long as you will not build any kill or damage points.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: waystin2 on September 08, 2018, 09:09:56 AM
I also think the scoring system is unfair to those who do not care about it. :aok
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 08, 2018, 09:11:12 AM
I don't bother with GVs or Attack things, whatever they are, I always get zeros in those columns yet they still go toward my overall score. My rank is always so bad I'm not able to take control of my county's toilet cleaning service vans, let alone a CV group.
It's the proverbial outrage! :old:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 08, 2018, 09:12:49 AM
You will not stay in the top 40 for long as you will not build any kill or damage points.
The numbers are easy. Lusche posted this picture in another thread.
(https://i.imgur.com/UJEWvLg.png)
If your ranked in the 500 range your not going to see much change over all for the tour as most players will continue to be in the same area. If you have a couple runs with a high K/D and a great hit percentage (hammer buffs with low caliber rounds) you can score high in the ranking. More luck than skill really. The only skill is knowing what to shoot when and how is what gets you a high ranking, not really any skill in the game itself, unless of course THAT is the game you are playing.....scoring.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: waystin2 on September 08, 2018, 09:51:52 AM
Yes, opting out on your end an scoring as anonymous on the other end seems reasonable! :furious
Or just keep useful data for youself such at hit % etc.
On the serious side. I fly almost every sortie as an attack sortie so I can kill or blow up everything. I'll shoot a plane, a vehicle, a gun, a bomber, a ship, a bunker, a hangar, well you get the picture. This insures the earning of perks for the activity. Not so much worried about the scoring as the perks for the toys when I want to fly them. I do get what you are saying though on the lower arena numbers vs. kills per sortie. Makes sense if you are interested in scoring. Nothing wrong with that pursuit Sir.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: perdue3 on September 08, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
I think this part of the score is a bit unfair to people who play in off-peak times. For instance it’s not uncommon to chase disappeared darbars and end up bailing out to move to different bases and try again.
Can some allowances be made for arena content?
With today's lack of action and 6 hour rule, I agree. It is indeed an unfair scoring mechanic nowadays.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: icepac on September 08, 2018, 11:33:30 AM
Score means nothing.
Fun means everything.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DubiousKB on September 08, 2018, 01:09:13 PM
only time I've cared about rank is to steal CV control...
LOOK AT ME, I AM THE CAPTAIN NOW. :devil
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: zack1234 on September 08, 2018, 01:10:53 PM
I used to be good looking
And used to score all the time
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 01:34:00 PM
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: JunkyII on September 08, 2018, 03:31:10 PM
Revamping the score system 5+ years ago may have done something to bring in competitive gamers but there's no reason to change it in a dead game when they still can't make planes stop flopping like dead fish.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: SPKmes on September 08, 2018, 03:55:37 PM
On the serious side. I fly almost every sortie as an attack sortie so I can kill or blow up everything. I'll shoot a plane, a vehicle, a gun, a bomber, a ship, a bunker, a hangar, well you get the picture. This insures the earning of perks for the activity. Not so much worried about the scoring as the perks for the toys when I want to fly them. I do get what you are saying though on the lower arena numbers vs. kills per sortie. Makes sense if you are interested in scoring. Nothing wrong with that pursuit Sir.
I started doing this about 8 years ago...I was trying to game you guys.....I tried to keep my fighter score at a crappy level to instigate a cheat/hack frenzy from you all....All I can say is you guys are mean, horrible people....You not once have played my game and now I'm stuck in this way of playing and it all seems so fruitless....
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 08, 2018, 04:14:46 PM
I really like the score system. You have to be good in many categories to score high. It changes every month so it gives new people a chance to score high. It helps you become better at the game by judging your stats. It's something that you don't have to try for if you don't want to. It's a great measure of your performance. It gives something for people to strive for. I admit I brag to my non AH friends that I'm #1 at times in something :D. I think it adds some competition to the game. It's kind of disappointing that AH doesn't take rank as seriously as Dota, if you know what I'm saying.
There's a lot of misconceptions about score. Flying high and timid is not the best way to score high. You do have to play the game to keep your score because points do matter (note tour 223 atlau lost his #1 fighter spot because of points.) This makes it so a player cannot easily be #1 with some miraculous sortie. That being said, playing too many hours will drag down your overall metrics and if you have a lot of points but lower other metrics, it's very hard to increaese those metrics to rank higher. (Think skyyr, hi points, lots of sorties, lower other metrics. ) Its a lot like gambling. If you play too many sorties, you will lose your other metrics being too complacent.
I kind of do agree with Nrshida that kills/time is impacted by the # of players on the map and the location of the fights. Perhaps this metric could be removed. The best way to increase kills per time is by fighting off of the CV. Kills per time actually makes it so high timir BnZers can't do that if they want a higher rank. If you took away Kills/time. Players who want a higher fighter rank would start flying more timidly. It's very hard to have a high kills per time while also maintaining a high K/d ( think Rapier). It's a tough call but I see where you are coming from. It's one of the reason why I won't roll if there is a tiny dar and the bases are too far.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 04:33:22 PM
I really like the score system. You have to be good in many categories to score high.
Which can easily be done in a single sortie.
You can score high in K/H, K/D, K/S, and Hit Percentage on a single mission or a small handful and rocket to the top. I placed in the top forty by flying one sortie. That's gamey.
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There's a lot of misconceptions about score. Flying high and timid is not the best way to score high. You do have to play the game to keep your score because points do matter (note tour 223 atlau lost his #1 fighter spot because of points.)
As we have shown, beyond 10,000 points score matters very little.
K/H through ditching becomes more valuable than points.
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This makes it so a player cannot easily be #1 with some miraculous sortie. That being said, playing too many hours will drag down your overall metrics and if you have a lot of points but lower other metrics, it's very hard to increaese those metrics to rank higher. (Think skyyr, hi points, lots of sorties, lower other metrics. )
Skyyr didn't play for score. If he had, he would easily be #1 every single tour.
The guy, like him or not, fought outnumbered all the time because he liked the challenge of it. He had very high metrics in terms of K/H and hit % at the expense of K/D (again, because he didn't play it safe) and total score. You would see him at #1 for the majority of a tour this way regardless.
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I kind of do agree with Nrshida that kills/time is impacted by the # of players on the map and the location of the fights. Perhaps this metric could be removed. The best way to increase kills per time is by fighting off of the CV. Kills per time actually makes it so high timir BnZers can't do that if they want a higher rank. If you took away Kills/time. Players who want a higher fighter rank would start flying more timidly. It's very hard to have a high kills per time while also maintaining a high K/d ( think Rapier). It's a tough call but I see where you are coming from. It's one of the reason why I won't roll if there is a tiny dar and the bases are too far.
Best way to help K/H is to ditch rather than land. The time spent flying home to land kills is better spent flying outbound to get more.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 08, 2018, 05:04:02 PM
You can score high in K/H, K/D, K/S, and Hit Percentage on a single mission or a small handful and rocket to the top. I placed in the top forty by flying one sortie. That's gamey.
Which tour did that happen? I'd be very surprised to see that happen - yet. Still too many pilots doing way too many sorties in the MA (unlike the EW and MW of old). I guess the best would currently in the 70s.
Example calculated for last tour: One pilot has the run of his life, does a single sortie and quickly kills 6 n00b NOE bombers in 5 minutes, K/D 6 = #17 K/S 6 = #1 K/H 78 = #1 hit % let's assume 20% = #3 Kill points - if he actually hit all of them (instead of getting proxies), ~1200 = #619
Total rank sum of 753 would have gotten him a fighter rank #51 at the end of the tour.
That still might considered 'gamey' - but then show me a ranking/score system that ain't ;) Besides, the good thing is that it doesn't even matter. Basically no one but yourself will know / care if some other guy was #72, #156, or #245 in tour 223. Even the tour winners don't show up on the frontpage anymore. You don't get anything for score except for TG control. Not even bragging rights - Or do you see anyone impressed when a guy plays the rank card in a discussion? Heck, I've been #1 in fighters thirteen fluff'n times and still did not get laid :furious (But I made Mom mighty proud :banana:)
And if someone would eliminate k/h, or just substantially emphasize kill points - that would greatly benefit all those who always engage when there's no risk at all.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 05:41:33 PM
Happened in the last year or so. I had a top 40 tour with two sorties, a top 50 with three, etc. I literally did almost exactly what you showed. Jumped a bunch of bombers, wiped out two sets and part of a third. Landed. Done. Switched to Attack for the rest of the tour.
(I flew one mission and was ranked number one. Took me about 20 days to fall out of the top 30...)
It needs to be like baseball or football or basketball with a minimum number of games played to qualify.
I agree K/H hurts people unfairly. Keep it as a reference but for score ranking? I think it skews everything.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 08, 2018, 05:49:47 PM
I agree K/H hurts people unfairly. Keep it as a reference but for score ranking? I think it skews everything.
Not using it would skew the ranks as well. Someone flying so cautiously that he would get only like 2 kills per hour (because he'd never engage when there's even the slightest risk) could then be #1. Would that be better? I don't think so :old:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 05:54:13 PM
Not using it would skew the ranks as well. Someone flying so cautiously that he would get only like 2 kills per hour (because he'd never engage when there's even the slightest risk) could then be #1. Would that be better? I don't think so :old:
Sure beats punishing people who fly around looking for bad guys off hours...
I don’t have the answer. I just know the system is badly flawed. The problem is I don’t have a better one.
:rofl
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 08, 2018, 06:02:37 PM
You can score high in K/H, K/D, K/S, and Hit Percentage on a single mission or a small handful and rocket to the top. I placed in the top forty by flying one sortie. That's gamey.
As we have shown, beyond 10,000 points score matters very little.
K/H through ditching becomes more valuable than points.
Skyyr didn't play for score. If he had, he would easily be #1 every single tour.
The guy, like him or not, fought outnumbered all the time because he liked the challenge of it. He had very high metrics in terms of K/H and hit % at the expense of K/D (again, because he didn't play it safe) and total score. You would see him at #1 for the majority of a tour this way regardless.
Best way to help K/H is to ditch rather than land. The time spent flying home to land kills is better spent flying outbound to get more.
I pretty much have to disagree with everything you wrote. Scoring high off one sortie early in the tour is not rare. There are less people who have played and a low # of players makes scoring higher easier.
I'm pretty sure that ditching doesn't give you as many points as landing. Points are harder to get than any other rank category unless you fly a ton of sorties. If you fly a ton of sorties though, this normally hurts the rest of your stats.
Happened in the last year or so. I had a top 40 tour with two sorties, a top 50 with three, etc. I literally did almost exactly what you showed. Jumped a bunch of bombers, wiped out two sets and part of a third. Landed. Done. Switched to Attack for the rest of the tour.
(I flew one mission and was ranked number one. Took me about 20 days to fall out of the top 30...)
It needs to be like baseball or football or basketball with a minimum number of games played to qualify.
I agree K/H hurts people unfairly. Keep it as a reference but for score ranking? I think it skews everything.
This is literally why points matter. Atlau got his great stats last tour by flying a 262. He should have flown a couple of more sorties to get his points up. He had great metrics but low points and it cost him.
The only reason why a few sorties can bring you to the top with low points is because of the amount of players, especially at the beginning of the tour.
I dont really think skyyr could have been #1 every tour. His K/D and kills per sortie suffered and he was really only successful in the MA when he flew top speed/performance planes.
That's why I like the rank in AH because you have to find ways to score high in all of the metrics so your scores per each category are low enough to score higher.
The better you get, the easier it is to score higher without even realizing it.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 06:20:47 PM
I pretty much have to disagree with everything you wrote.
Doesn’t make you right.
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Scoring high off one sortie early in the tour is not rare. There are less people who have played and a low # of players makes scoring higher easier.
And yet I can do it and still be in the Top 50 at the end. That makes zero sense.
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I'm pretty sure that ditching doesn't give you as many points as landing.
Yeah, we know that. I think you get half. Don’t quote me on it though.
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Points are harder to get than any other rank category unless you fly a ton of sorties. If you fly a ton of sorties though, this normally hurts the rest of your stats.
Points are easy to get. I can rank #1 in points all day long if I want. The thing we’ve demonstrated is the return on investment is not worth it starting around 10,000. After that you should ditch to maintain K/D and bump up your K/H.
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This is literally why points matter. Atlau got his great stats last tour by flying a 262. He should have flown a couple of more sorties to get his points up. He had great metrics but low points and it cost him.
I did not see his numbers, but generally speaking this is not a factor. Had he bumped up his K/H or hit % he would have ranked higher I’m almost certain. You cannot win a tour based on gross numbers. (Edit In: In his case he was already high on other metrics and his kill points were low, thus the effort to go from 82 in kill points to enough to win wasn’t much. Had he been #1 in points or #60 he would have won. You would have won by more if you had scored fewer points and had a higher K/H via ditching.)
The effort required to go from #5 (or #50) to #1 in points is best used for K/H.
(https://i.imgur.com/UJEWvLg.png)
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The only reason why a few sorties can bring you to the top with low points is because of the amount of players, especially at the beginning of the tour.
One sortie. Top 40.
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I dont really think skyyr could have been #1 every tour. His K/D and kills per sortie suffered and he was really only successful in the MA when he flew top speed/performance planes.
That's why I like the rank in AH because you have to find ways to score high in all of the metrics so your scores per each category are low enough score higher.
The better you get, the easier it is to score hgiher without even realizing it.
Let me say it again since you missed it. Skyyr never played for rank. He played for the fight. Had he focused on score he would have easily been #1. He was already in the top 10 regularly when he was NOT focused on score.
There are others who did similarly.
He flew speed/performance planes because he was always wading into a horde alone down lowusually alone. He was capable of success in any plane.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: 1stpar3 on September 08, 2018, 06:51:42 PM
Loved the Ki-61....didnt fly it as much for that very reason...no speed to stay effective in a 4 v 1 :uhoh Scary in that bird, he was :confused:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 08, 2018, 07:14:19 PM
And yet I can do it and still be in the Top 50 at the end. That makes zero sense.
Yeah, we know that. I think you get half. Don’t quote me on it though.
Points are easy to get. I can rank #1 in points all day long if I want. The thing we’ve demonstrated is the return on investment is not worth it starting around 10,000. After that you should ditch to maintain K/D and bump up your K/H.
I did not see his numbers, but generally speaking this is not a factor. Had he bumped up his K/H or hit % he would have ranked higher I’m almost certain. You cannot win a tour based on gross numbers. (Edit In: In his case he was already high on other metrics and his kill points were low, thus the effort to go from 82 in kill points to enough to win wasn’t much.)
The effort required to go from #5 to #1 in points is best used for K/H.
One sortie. Top 40.
Let me say it again since you missed it. Skyyr never played for rank. He played for the fight. Had he focused on score he would have easily been #1. He was already in the top 10 regularly when he was NOT focused on score.
There are others who did similarly.
He flew speed/performance planes because he was always wading into a horde alone down lowusually alone. He was capable of success in any plane.
Vraciu, do you understand how the score works? If you have one sortie with 5 kills. Based on everyone else in the game. That gives you a 5 k/D. (Top 20). A5 kills per sortie (top 3 literally in the whole game). Great aim on bombers will give you (top 20), a quick sortie might give you (top 20.) Now, those are all "skill" metrics. The majority of players don't score that high. Every sortie counts. Atlau was top 5 in every category but top 100 in points. He had to risk that score for more points to pass me. You are only top 40 because you scored high in one sortie, which gave you high marks in all of those categories, making your rank add up lower. But, you have a low amount of points. This means players who play more than you no matter their skill metrics will have more points than you. Thus hurting your rank. Thru the month, more and more people will gain more points than your just one sortie. This makes your rank fall. Even though you have top scores in every other categories. The key to having a high fighter score is to do a 3-5 kill sortie quickly every time and landing to increase your points. That's actually very challenging. The scoring is great because it doesn't just give it to players who played the most hours and it doesn't just give it to players who have 1 sortie wonders. You could rank #1 in points, but that makes it harder to have higher "skill" metrics ( K/D K/S K/T because each sortie effects that. (ie, if you don't keep up the same amount of kills or you die more, it hurts those "skill" metrics in relation to the ranks. It's getting a lot of points + scoring high in those metrics every sortie that gives you a high score. This is the challenging part.
It's great to see where you rank in each category. I love that. Especially to measure K/S and K/D.
Do you understand now why you scored top 40 even though you didn't have a lot of points? It's not based on time played the longest or shortest. It's based on each "skill” metric. You had high metrics even with a low rank in points. You would have been lower in the ranks if more people played.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 08, 2018, 07:43:13 PM
In the past 33 months, your best one sortie tour ended at #72, your best two sortie to at #49 :old:
There you go. Two sorties. #49.
Silly.
Beyond ridiculous actually.
(I flew under other IDs--in order to switch countries when numbers were bad, practice with my TrackIR, etc.--which I will not divulge. Similar results.)
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 07:54:37 PM
Vraciu, do you understand how the score works? If you have one sortie with 5 kills. Based on everyone else in the game. That gives you a 5 k/D. (Top 20). A5 kills per sortie (top 3 literally in the whole game). Great aim on bombers will give you (top 20), a quick sortie might give you (top 20.) Now, those are all "skill" metrics. The majority of players don't score that high. Every sortie counts. Atlau was top 5 in every category but top 100 in points. He had to risk that score for more points to pass me. You are only top 40 because you scored high in one sortie, which gave you high marks in all of those categories, making your rank add up lower. But, you have a low amount of points. This means players who play more than you no matter their skill metrics will have more points than you. Thus hurting your rank. Thru the month, more and more people will gain more points than your just one sortie. This makes your rank fall. Even though you have top scores in every other categories. The key to having a high fighter score is to do a 3-5 kill sortie quickly every time and landing to increase your points. That's actually very challenging. The scoring is great because it doesn't just give it to players who played the most hours and it doesn't just give it to players who have 1 sortie wonders. You could rank #1 in points, but that makes it harder to have higher "skill" metrics ( K/D K/S K/T because each sortie effects that. (ie, if you don't keep up the same amount of kills or you die more, it hurts those "skill" metrics in relation to the ranks. It's getting a lot of points + scoring high in those metrics every sortie that gives you a high score. This is the challenging part.
It's great to see where you rank in each category. I love that. Especially to measure K/S and K/D.
Do you understand now why you scored top 40 even though you didn't have a lot of points? It's not based on time played the longest or shortest. It's based on each "skill” metric. You had high metrics even with a low rank in points. You would have been lower in the ranks if more people played.
Atlau performed better than you did. You outscored him by using points to offset your inferior ranks elsewhere.
Had he simply flown a few more sorties he would have easily passed you. (You beat him by about 22 points. The effort for him to move from 82 to 60 in kill points was minimal. You, OTOH, had to sweat it out to get to 35 in kill points. Had you dropped 5 in kill points by ditching and moved up ten by upping your K/H--also by ditching--you would have won by 27 instead of 22.
Kill points are the easiest thing to get.
And the rate of return on investment is low beyond 10,000. It rapidly becomes exponential.
This is part of the reason why the system is flawed.
Margin of victory could be weighted, for example.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 08, 2018, 08:18:11 PM
Atlau performed better than you did. You outscored him by using points to offset your inferior ranks elsewhere.
Had he simply flown a few more sorties he would have easily passed you. (You beat him by about 22 points. The effort for him to move from 82 to 60 in kill points was minimal. You, OTOH, had to sweat it out to get to 35 in kill points. Had you dropped 5 in kill points by ditching and moved up ten by upping your K/H--also by ditching--you would have won by 27 instead of 22.
Kill points are the easiest thing to get.
And the rate of return on investment is low beyond 10,000. It rapidly becomes exponential.
This is part of the reason why the system is flawed.
Margin of victory could be weighted, for example.
Yeah, he scored very high in the metrics part of the score. Notice how many sorties he had. That is minimal. He was also in a 262 for 99% of kills.
It appears like you do not understand why this scoring system is actually pretty good. If you scored high in a lot of metrics but only fly one sortie, those metrics add up lower and give you a higher rank.
Atlau could have rolled more sorties for to catch up on points, which would have beat me, but he would have had to risk is other metrics with more sorties... he probably wasnt able to play.
What I am trying to tell you is, he only had 16 sorties... the score is designed so that players with minimal sorties cant just out rank everyone else who have played more. You still have to get a high level of metrics and a high level of points to be at the top. That is a system that works. Points are a lot harder to get when you have to maintain a high K/D, K/S, K/T all at the same time.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 08, 2018, 08:33:18 PM
Fighter #1 tour 223:
(https://i.imgur.com/nZ0bqbq.png)
Fighter #2 tour 223
(https://i.imgur.com/BalMEVV.png)
This time, kill points won ;)
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 08, 2018, 08:48:55 PM
Distribution of the fighter score sub categories in tour 223. X axis is always the players, the highest ranked (lowest rank #) is leftmost.
(https://i.imgur.com/W0yL0J6.png) (Y axis tuncated, the top 4 pilots had k/d >20)
(https://i.imgur.com/8Z8oXn6.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/2Cxr63R.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/epej3WH.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zWYEDBr.png)
To break top 40, you needed a rank sum of ~500, top 10 ~250
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 08:49:05 PM
Yeah, he scored very in the metrics part of the score. Notice how many sorties he had. That is minimal. He was also in a 262 for 99% of kills.
I didn't check his sorties. He flew enough to prove that he could maintain that pace. It wasn't a one or two mission fluke.
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It doesn't appear like you do not understand why this scoring system is actually pretty good.
:confused:
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If you scored high in a lot of metrics but only fly one sortie, those metrics add up lower and give you a higher rank.
No. They add up and give you a higher rank than you will ever attain on volume alone. You cannot kill point your way to #1. EVER.
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Atlau could have rolled more sorties for to catch up on points, which would have beat me, but he would have had to risk is other metrics with more sorties... he probably wasnt able to play.
His metrics are always good. The reality is that he needed a very few number or sorties at his pace to beat you. Then he could have sat out and let you try as hard as you wanted and you wouldn't have caught him, even if you scored 300,000 kill points.
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What I am trying to tell you is, he only had 16 sorties... the score is designed so that players with minimal sorties cant just out rank everyone else who have played more. You still have to get a high level of metrics and a high level of points to be at the top. That is a system that works. Points are a lot harder to get when you have to maintain a high K/D, K/S, K/T all at the same time.
You have to achieve a modest balance, but you cannot kill point your way to #1. For a minimal amount of effort--a handful of sorties--he would have passed you even if you scored a million points.
Grinding your way to points does nothing for you.
The scoring doesn't reward who is best. It rewards who games the system the most effectively. This can be done a lot easier in 30 sorties than in 300.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 08:49:41 PM
Because had he scored a handful more points he would have won and still been 25 places and THOUSANDS of kill points behind Violator.
You cannot grind your way to a win on kill points. Ever.
You can game the system and win in 30 sorties over a guy who has a million kill points and 300 sorties. Atlau's performance actually proved my point.
I don't really understand how you can "game" the score. You still have post high metrics. Some one with 300,000 points still has to have a high K/D, K/S, hit% and K/T to maintain a top rank. Like any other metric, say K/D. You can have the highest K/D in the game but if you don't maintain the rest of the scores, you won't be top ranked.
I like this way because it means that players who have 300 sorties and all the time in the world to play don't just get #1 based on time in the game. While a player who scored 1 high sortie cant just be a top ranked player because of points.
I saw an opening to outrank Atlau with points. He could have easily flown a couple more sorties and upped his points to pass me. I could have done terribly and lost my K/D or K/S trying to pass him on points. See how that works? More sorties equal more risk, but you have to fly more sorties if you want the points.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 10:01:58 PM
I don't really understand how you can "game" the score. You still have post high metrics.
A guy can fly a dozen sorties and win the entire tour.
That's gaming the system in my opinion.
Minimum to qualify for rank should be 50 sorties or something like that.
It's really simple.
Quote
Some one with 300,000 points still has to have a high K/D, K/S, hit% and K/T to maintain a top rank.
You're clearly not paying attention as that has been my contention from the beginning. You cannot grind your way to #1 through points. You need around 15-18K points roughly. In this last case, Atlau needed to place #60 in kill points to win the entire tour. That was probably around 18K. At the pace he was on that's a handful of sorties at most.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 08, 2018, 10:18:59 PM
It's not that just anybody could just simply do that. Only a small percentage of AH pilots could pull that off, so it's not entirely undeserved.
Perhaps. It would be like a player in any major sport winning a scoring title after one game, however.
It seems to me that a minimum number of sorties should be flown to even qualify for a ranking other than last.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 08, 2018, 10:55:45 PM
The lowest number of sorties for the fighter tour winners in the past 2 years was 36, flown by Bruv (no surprise here). Average was 99:
(https://i.imgur.com/P7ZuP82.png)
If you look at the scores of these winners in detail, you can see that beating their scores in a mere 12 sorties would be a huge achievement. As said before, only a very few pilots could pull that off. When AH continues to lose pilots, there will be a time when sortie numbers as low as a dozen will appear on that chart, but that's still quite some distance away.
By the way, in tour 233 the median number of sorties in fighter mode per player actually using that mode was 27 - So tour winners do fly a lot more sorties than the average player.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 08, 2018, 11:01:56 PM
The lowest number of sorties for the fighter tour winners in the past 2 years was 36, flown by Bruv (no surprise here). Average was 99:
(https://i.imgur.com/P7ZuP82.png)
If you look at the scores of these winners in detail, you can see that beating their scores in a mere 12 sorties would be a huge achievement. As said before, only a very few pilots could pull that off. When AH continues to lose pilots, there will be a time when sortie numbers as low as a dozen will appear on that chart, but that's still quite some distance away.
By the way, in tour 233 the median number of sorties in fighter mode per player actually using that mode was 27 - So tour winners do fly a lot more sorties than the average player.
Interesting info.
Maybe a minimum to rank would encourage more people to fly.
Or maybe not.
Good stuff, Mr. Numbers! :salute
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 09, 2018, 01:53:11 AM
Maybe a minimum to rank would encourage more people to fly.
Or maybe not.
Good stuff, Mr. Numbers! :salute
You are forgetting that players with low sorties who have a lot of kills spend most of their time flying and racking up kills in one sortie instead of taking off over and over again. Like Lusche said, getting #1 or even a top 5 rank with very few sorties at the end of the month is very challenging.
IMHO, rank for "time played" does not measure skill. Points are litterally part of score for the fact that a player can't "game" the score in 2 sorties. It's good that players can score high without spending their entire life playing the game.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: ccvi on September 09, 2018, 04:12:18 AM
It's very hard to have a high kills per time while also maintaining a high K/d ( think Rapier). It's a tough call but I see where you are coming from. It's one of the reason why I won't roll if there is a tiny dar and the bases are too far.
Is this the reason why half (*) of the people are sitting in tower instead of flying? So basically score makes people fly less. And score also prevents people from contributing to the war to a certain extend (waaah I'm bingo, can't stay for the next five minutes until the capture and land here. Or up where there is a risk in general, even if the risk is that there' just not enough or the wrong kind of enemies).
(*) slightly exaggerated, but not much.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 09, 2018, 05:38:46 AM
Revamping the score system 5+ years ago may have done something to bring in competitive gamers but there's no reason to change it in a dead game when they still can't make planes stop flopping like dead fish.
Bit dark old boy, is the game (http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/tombstone.gif) as far as you're concerned then?
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 09, 2018, 05:43:05 AM
Whoa whoa whoa, the score's way more complicated than I'm interested in. I'm gathering here playing for score is a question of shortcutting 'normal' gameplay. You just do this that or the other and bingo.
The pertinant question is: is it representative or a game unto itself?
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Shuffler on September 09, 2018, 06:10:59 AM
I have been flying a bomber as a fighter for years.....
:banana:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Slade on September 09, 2018, 08:32:35 AM
My score fun facts page is here (http://oracledba.help/app/ww2planes/index.php?n=Site.Score).
Enjoy! :salute
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 08:41:21 AM
You are forgetting that players with low sorties who have a lot of kills spend most of their time flying and racking up kills in one sortie instead of taking off over and over again. Like Lusche said, getting #1 or even a top 5 rank with very few sorties at the end of the month is very challenging.
IMHO, rank for "time played" does not measure skill. Points are litterally part of score for the fact that a player can't "game" the score in 2 sorties. It's good that players can score high without spending their entire life playing the game.
“Time played” has nothing to do with my suggestion.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 08:43:58 AM
Lusche, if you’re still here...
In recent years, which player has the highest number of kills, sorties, and kill points? How about all-time?
I’m curious how that stacks up compared to what we’ve been discussing. :salute
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 09, 2018, 08:52:56 AM
I don't really know :)
I guess the player with all time most kills in anything is Dr7.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 08:56:20 AM
How would I dig this up?
I’m really curious what the all-time kills board looks like.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 09, 2018, 08:58:57 AM
I guess the player with all time most kills in anything is Dr7.
Addendum: He's at 371K kills now. I don't think anyone else comes even close to that - For comparison, I played this game full time for ten years and 'only' have 104K kills :uhoh
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: atlau on September 09, 2018, 09:09:38 AM
Id like to see total kills, kill/hr, hit percentage emphasized over k/d. Those metrics would encourage more risk taking.
Or id like to see a score broken out by plane. So that people who fly worse/more challenging aircraft can see how they perform compared to other players in the same plane.
Sorry violator, i was gone the last 2 weeks:). In any case buff hunting in a 262 is the easiest way to get high ratios. Id gather flying a la7 for a tour would get similar easy numbers.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: The Fugitive on September 09, 2018, 09:16:19 AM
Whoa whoa whoa, the score's way more complicated than I'm interested in. I'm gathering here playing for score is a question of shortcutting 'normal' gameplay. You just do this that or the other and bingo.
The pertinant question is: is it representative or a game unto itself?
It cant possible be representative as it is easily gamed to adjust the numbers/ranking.
As for it being a "game unto itself" for those in the top 20-40 Id say it is. Out side of that most dont know how it works and while they may be trying to play that game they are not a factor.
Id like to see total kills, kill/hr, hit percentage emphasized over k/d. Those metrics would encourage more risk taking. Or id like to see a score broken out by plane. So that people who fly worse/more challenging aircraft can see how they perform compared to other players in the same plane.
Sorry violator, i was gone the last 2 weeks:). In any case buff hunting in a 262 is the easiest way to get high ratios. Id gather flying a la7 for a tour would get similar easy numbers.
Id love to see some tweaks to the score to promote fighting, or atleast getting INTO the action other than avoiding it. The bolded text would be huge! The system is already there for the data (ENY). KillPoints and bonus multipliers could be adjusted for a high ENY plane/pilot defeating a low ENY plane/pilot combo. It would help encourage players to get out of the "easy mode" planes and into the more challenging rides. Fewer LAs and spits!
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 09, 2018, 09:35:48 AM
Or id like to see a score broken out by plane. So that people who fly worse/more challenging aircraft can see how they perform compared to other players in the same plane.
I don't think that this would work well in the single tour score frame AH has. IMHO most individual data samples would just get too small, when players spread their sorties over several planes in different modes.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 10:25:43 AM
Can we find out who the top five players are in total air-to-air kills for a tour?
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: BaldEagl on September 09, 2018, 11:27:49 AM
The pertinant question is: is it representative or a game unto itself?
I used to play the whole game (fighter, bomber, attack, GV) in all it's aspects. At some point I noticed I was ranking pretty well so started to play for overall rank. At that point it did become a game in itself and became more so the more I tried to climb the rankings. I knew I always had to seek opportunities to and improve upon my weakest scoring metrics and approached the game that way.
I managed top 10ish ranking several times but fighter score was always my weakness. While my K/D, K/S, hit%, etc. were always decent it was K/H that always held me back. I'd rarely exceed 4K/H, most likely because of the way I played (climbing out, buff hunting, seeking 1 on 1's, always landing if possible, etc.).
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 09, 2018, 11:39:40 AM
“Time played” has nothing to do with my suggestion.
You said that a player who has a good score in minimal sorties is "gaming" the ranks. Even though it does take skill in these sorties to get those #s. You implied that there should be a limit so that players who played more should score higher. In that case, I'm not really sure what you are suggesting.
Is this the reason why half (*) of the people are sitting in tower instead of flying? So basically score makes people fly less. And score also prevents people from contributing to the war to a certain extend (waaah I'm bingo, can't stay for the next five minutes until the capture and land here. Or up where there is a risk in general, even if the risk is that there' just not enough or the wrong kind of enemies).
(*) slightly exaggerated, but not much.
Well, its just one reason. I don't really like rolling for one bad guy any way, when it only showed a tiny dar. Although now that dots show up, I may roll more now that I can see where they are. I don't like spending 10 minutes for one red guy. It's actually more about the radar and field distance that keeps me from rolling more than the time per sortie, but I was just throwing it out there.
I actually think it does help the war effort. By achieving the metrics on the score, you have to be involved in the game. In fighter mode, keeping a capped base or keeping cons from killing your M3s/c47s or keeping from getting your teamates bombers ect ect, actually do help. Flying defense also helps your kills per time. If your base is getting vulched, roll from a back field, this will help you get alt and get some advantage over the vulchers. Then you can kill them and that helps your score.
It cant possible be representative as it is easily gamed to adjust the numbers/ranking.
As for it being a "game unto itself" for those in the top 20-40 Id say it is. Out side of that most dont know how it works and while they may be trying to play that game they are not a factor.
Id love to see some tweaks to the score to promote fighting, or atleast getting INTO the action other than avoiding it. The bolded text would be huge! The system is already there for the data (ENY). KillPoints and bonus multipliers could be adjusted for a high ENY plane/pilot defeating a low ENY plane/pilot combo. It would help encourage players to get out of the "easy mode" planes and into the more challenging rides. Fewer LAs and spits!
The misconception is that avoiding planes and fights doesnt benefit your score. This is what Kills / time is for. If you are a very timid flyer, this hurts your K/T and thus hurts your rank. Being more aggressive at the right times is what gives you a good fighter rank.
While there is no score broken down by plane, you can check the stats by plane at the end of the tours to see top K/D per plane.
I do actually think a ratio should be added that measures the average ENY of the planes you fly, then put into rank. So if you fly a 109G2 you get a higher rank ratio than someone who flies only La7s. Don't know how that would be coded though.
Can we find out who the top five players are in total air-to-air kills for a tour?
No but you you can search stats by planes. Start with Judge. He had over 1061 kills in a 109G14 last tour. 1400 total I think. Rud3boi gets a lot of kills.
All in all, what people need to realize about this score model is that it's not about scoring high in just one metric. It's about scoring high in all of the metrics. These means that flying timidly is not good for score. I literally die 50% of the time by getting down and dirty. But I also try to get at least 3-5 kills every sortie. If you die once in a while, it will actually help your K/T.
I think the scoring model is great to measure your success and ability in performing better by working on your metrics in the scoring system.
If it were so easy to "game" the score. More people would do it. But I don't see that very often and those players typically lose that rank because of kills points. Getting a higher top 5 rank in AH actually does take some skill and is deserved for players who can achieve it.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 12:13:52 PM
You said that a player who has a good score in minimal sorties is "gaming" the ranks. Even though it does take skill in these sorties to get those #s. You implied that there should be a limit so that players who played more should score higher. In that case, I'm not really sure what you are suggesting.
Dude, please focus for a second my friend.
A minimum number of sorties played would be like a minimum number of games played in a sport to qualify for a record. *TIME* is not the factor. SORTIES is. X sorties to qualify.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: The Fugitive on September 09, 2018, 12:19:12 PM
Then you go to the stats page for each player here to see how many of the kills were A2A. Be sure to double check kills in bombers that take out vehicles and remove them as well.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/players.php
Once you have all the totals you can see what your looking for.
Good luck!
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 12:22:28 PM
Addendum: He's at 371K kills now. I don't think anyone else comes even close to that - For comparison, I played this game full time for ten years and 'only' have 104K kills :uhoh
Funny....
Violator played for ten years and Skyyr has more kills than he does in only about two and a half years* (with better across-the-board stats).
SKYYR TOTAL Kills: 37,267 Deaths: 11,994 K/D: 3.11 (3.10714)
VIOLATOR TOTAL Kills: 24167 Deaths: 8137 K/D: 2.97
*Skyyr 33 months/tours vs Violator 126 months/tours.
That being said, playing too many hours will drag down your overall metrics and if you have a lot of points but lower other metrics, it's very hard to increaese those metrics to rank higher. (Think skyyr, hi points, lots of sorties, lower other metrics. )
I dont really think skyyr could have been #1 every tour. His K/D and kills per sortie suffered and he was really only successful in the MA when he flew top speed/performance planes.
Yet he had 150% of your kills in one quarter of the time (37267 vs 24167)....with a higher K/D (3.11 vs 2.97). He also has a higher K/H as well. I can pull that if you want. :devil I'm not sure what your point is.
As for #1s... Well he got it a couple of times right before he was booted. I think he was about to go on a roll. Then Starfox won a couple as well. Same thing.
I also pulled my stats over my career. I have 6515 kills with a 2.2 K/D (may alternate account is 2.58:1...both are way better than I thought it was) but nowhere near what you guys do in any metric. :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 12:23:01 PM
Then you go to the stats page for each player here to see how many of the kills were A2A. Be sure to double check kills in bombers that take out vehicles and remove them as well.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/players.php
Once you have all the totals you can see what your looking for.
Good luck!
Thanks man. I will try and figure that out. :cheers: :salute
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 09, 2018, 12:26:23 PM
A minimum number of sorties played would be like a minimum number of games played in a sport to qualify for a record. *TIME* is not the factor. SORTIES is. X sorties to qualify.
Right, but you missed what I said earlier. Good players tend to spend most of their time in the air getting kills. So a player who rolls one time and gets 5 kills should have a better rank than a player who rolls 5 times and gets 1 kill every sortie. The thing will score is that if you get 5 kills in one sortie, that's great, still have to have a high Hit% and K/T to score even higher. But if you want to maintain that rank, you have to continue to get 5 kill sorties to keep your same score + keep your points balanced to stay on top. That is the hard part. The more sorties, the more risk, but you have to be risky if you want to maintain that score.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 09, 2018, 12:27:49 PM
Right, but you missed what I said earlier. Good players tend to spend most of their time in the air getting kills. So a player who rolls one time and gets 5 kills should have a better rank than a player who rolls 5 times and gets 1 kill every sortie. The thing will score is that if you get 5 kills in one sortie, that's great, still have to have a high Hit% and K/T to score even higher. But if you want to maintain that rank, you have to continue to get 5 kill sorties to keep your same score + keep your points balanced to stay on top. That is the hard part. The more sorties, the more risk, but you have to be risky if you want to maintain that score.
But a guy like me can roll two sorties and wind up in the top 50. That's just dumb to my mind.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 09, 2018, 12:30:19 PM
I used to play the whole game (fighter, bomber, attack, GV) in all it's aspects. At some point I noticed I was ranking pretty well so started to play for overall rank. At that point it did become a game in itself and became more so the more I tried to climb the rankings.
That's a very interesting insight. Thanks.
I actually only started to look as I was trying to calculate something which the stats conceal, actually because of a lack of elemental data.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 12:33:09 PM
24 - 30 hours per week, 3½ - 4 hours a day assuming no days off :eek:
I have 6 tours with 200+ hours each - and that excludes time in tower spend planning my sorties... :uhoh
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 09, 2018, 12:52:28 PM
Wtf, there's two score pages then? I didn't even know about the more detailed one.
This is ridiculous. There was only one stat I was interested in which is skewed anyway, it seems score is so abstracted from (virtual) reality it's not really worth paying attention to. (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8443/crazy6.gif)
I'll go back to being ignorant and use my own scoring method about my quality of flying - feel :rofl
Carry on :old:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 12:53:28 PM
Wtf, there's two score pages then? I didn't even know about the more detailed one.
This is ridiculous. There was only one stat I was interested in which is skewed anyway, it seems score is so abstracted from (virtual) reality it's not really worth paying attention to. (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8443/crazy6.gif)
I'll go back to being ignorant and use my own scoring method about my quality of flying - feel :rofl
Carry on :old:
The link I posted is the one you see on the clipboard I believe. .score
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 09, 2018, 12:53:56 PM
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: ccvi on September 09, 2018, 01:23:23 PM
Score saw really weird when it was possible to get field captures in fight mode.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 09, 2018, 01:26:42 PM
Skyyr did not have more kills than me.
That being said, he did fly like 300 hours a month.. idk how any one could fly that much lol.
You aren't factoring in my years playing as Catfish6 or my years playing as Dmonslyr. Back when the #s were good, I use to be able to score very well. Check out Tour 82 as Dmonslyr. That was one of my best tours in AH. You can see that with 49K points that metric scored at 108 ranked. These days 49K points would put you in the top 10 for that metric.
Skyyr flew the La7 and 190D a lot which are planes that get kills very quickly because they are fast and have a lot of advantages. He died more than me often and had a lower K/D which gave him a higher K/T. I fly a much more challenging and dynamic plane set than skyyr, generally.
I probably get at least 1/3 of my kills in defense reverse counter punch maneuvers which is why I typically score better than timid high alt players. Its just the way I like to play the game though. Running away from fights because you can't gain and angle Advantage in a 1v1 is very boring. IMO only being an E fighter is very boring but in AH you can fly however you want.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 09, 2018, 01:49:11 PM
I think there are actually three ways to find scores outside of the game.
This bloody is ridiculous. I've been following the link on the webpage under: Scores and Stats -> Statistics - Pilot. I didn't even know there was a dot command (or that it was different), that bails and ditches counted someplaces as deaths etc.
Talk about misleading and complex. Should have Lusche redesign the whole thing from scratch and give him a free subscription for a year.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 09, 2018, 01:57:44 PM
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: icepac on September 09, 2018, 02:01:04 PM
Now you know how to further limit your game in quest of score.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 02:02:23 PM
Violator.............. 😊
I did pull your stats as Catfish6, and as Dmonslyr, and Violater, and Viol8her as well.
When Skyyr left, he posted EVERYTHING he had on the game, stats, tactics, some stat programs he built himself, etc. on our Facebook group page. The guy was like a mad scientist. One of the things he had was his own stats, in extreme detail, as well as the stats of anyone he had a running war with. This included tons of unlisted videos on YouTube and other things as well.
See this link here, where he pulled your stats before: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,372750.msg4966965.html#msg4966965
I ran Spatula's stat program to get your tours since the last stat pull as "Violator." Guess what? He still had more kills, as well as a higher K/D and K/H. The numbers I pulled were from all of your names and his, up to the last time he flew.
SKYYR'S TOTAL STATS: Kills: 37,267 Deaths: 11,994 K/D: 3.11 (3.10714) Top Plane by Kills #1: Fw 190D-9 Top Plane by Kills #2: LA-7 Top Plane by Kills #3: Ta 152H
VIOLATOR'S TOTAL STATS Kills: 24167 Deaths: 8137 K/D: 2.97 Top Plane by Kills #1: 109G-14 Top Plane by Kills #2: 109K-4 Top Plane by Kills #3: Ki-84-1a
Quote
ID: Violator Kills: 10306 Deaths: 3274 K/D: 3.15
ID: Catfish6 Kills: 6545 Deaths: 2804 K/D: 2.33
ID: Dmonslyr Kills: 3898 Deaths: 878 K/D: 4.43
ID: Violater Kills: 3332 Deaths: 1160 K/D: 2.87
ID: Viol8her Kills: 86 Deaths: 21 K/D: 3.91
You can confirm the above using Spatula's AH Stats Program. He also DID have a higher K/H, problem is to post the stats here I'd have to manually pull up the score page for each name and tour and add the time individually, then divide by total kills.
If you'd like to discuss offline, I'm more than happy to. But trust me when I say I've seen the numbers firsthand. Pull the stats yourself to verify my statements:
https://imgur.com/a/plFvIGk
Even if you compare the same tours when you played together, his K/H was higher after the first few tours (he started playing the game at Tour 166). The thing about the guy was once he learned and adapted, he played SOOO freaking much that his K/H was much more consistent than yours. Again, take a look at the screenshot or pull the stats yourself.
:salute
P.S. - Also, you keep saying he was running or whatever. The Skyyr I flew with didn't run from fights. In fact, he was usually outnumbered. His last montage was him flying almost entirely defensively:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0ysFm3TDbI
Cheerio.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 02:03:06 PM
When you want to look at you score, you should click on "score" :P
Stop being so precise and German! :old: The link I used had the word Score(s) in it, ain't that close enough? (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8103/crazy5.gif)
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 09, 2018, 02:10:31 PM
Now you know how to further limit your game in quest of score.
Yeah a bit back on the topic of my OP I'm not going to stop bailing or ditching when the darbars vanish. That'd double my time wasted in the European daytime. Cobblers I say.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 02:33:59 PM
Yeah a bit back on the topic of my OP I'm not going to stop bailing or ditching when the darbars vanish. That'd double my time wasted in the European daytime. Cobblers I say.
Ditch in the dar ring on every sortie and you'll rocket up in your total stats.
Your K/H will improve and the lost in Kill Points will be overcome relatively easily as your cyclic rate goes up.
:old:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 09, 2018, 02:40:15 PM
Ditch in the dar ring on every sortie and you'll rocket up in your total stats.
No trying to be overly pedantic, but ditching in your own dar circle can give you a 'captured' (= death) at times. All what matters is the ownership of the closest base, if that's a hostile one you will be captured. When bases are very close (enemy task groups!), you can be in your dar circle and still be closer to an enemy base.
:old:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 09, 2018, 03:43:23 PM
I did pull your stats as Catfish6, and as Dmonslyr, and Violater, and Viol8her as well.
When Skyyr left, he posted EVERYTHING he had on the game, stats, tactics, some stat programs he built himself, etc. on our Facebook group page. The guy was like a mad scientist. One of the things he had was his own stats, in extreme detail, as well as the stats of anyone he had a running war with. This included tons of unlisted videos on YouTube and other things as well.
See this link here, where he pulled your stats before: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,372750.msg4966965.html#msg4966965
I ran Spatula's stat program to get your tours since the last stat pull as "Violator." Guess what? He still had more kills, as well as a higher K/D and K/H. The numbers I pulled were from all of your names and his, up to the last time he flew.
SKYYR'S TOTAL STATS: Kills: 37,267 Deaths: 11,994 K/D: 3.11 (3.10714) Top Plane by Kills #1: Fw 190D-9 Top Plane by Kills #2: LA-7 Top Plane by Kills #3: Ta 152H
VIOLATOR'S TOTAL STATS Kills: 24167 Deaths: 8137 K/D: 2.97 Top Plane by Kills #1: 109G-14 Top Plane by Kills #2: 109K-4 Top Plane by Kills #3: Ki-84-1a
You can confirm the above using Spatula's AH Stats Program. He also DID have a higher K/H, problem is to post the stats here I'd have to manually pull up the score page for each name and tour and add the time individually, then divide by total kills.
If you'd like to discuss offline, I'm more than happy to. But trust me when I say I've seen the numbers firsthand. Pull the stats yourself to verify my statements:
https://imgur.com/a/plFvIGk
Even if you compare the same tours when you played together, his K/H was higher after the first few tours (he started playing the game at Tour 166). The thing about the guy was once he learned and adapted, he played SOOO freaking much that his K/H was much more consistent than yours. Again, take a look at the screenshot or pull the stats yourself.
:salute
P.S. - Also, you keep saying he was running or whatever. The Skyyr I flew with didn't run from fights. In fact, he was usually outnumbered. His last montage was him flying almost entirely defensively:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0ysFm3TDbI
Cheerio.
He did not have a higher k/d than me overall. He had no life. That's what he had. I don't agree with your stat analysis but you can post what you want. I'm pretty sure when skyyr looked up my stats, I had well over a 3.5 K/D. Like I said he also flew easy mode planes that present no real challenge. Ive also flew a lot more attack missions and scored higher than skyyr in those metrics. He still never beat me in fighter rank in 2016 even when he did try ;)
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 03:46:18 PM
He did not have a higher k/d than me overall. He had no life. That's what he had. I don't agree with your stat analysis but you can post what you want. I'm pretty sure when skyyr looked up my stats, I had well over a 3.5 K/D. Like I said he also flew easy mode planes that present no real challenge. Ive also flew a lot more attack missions and scored higher than skyyr in those metrics. He still never beat me in fighter rank in 2016 even when he did try ;)
#Excuses
#NumbersDoNotLie
I see you flying 109K4s and KI84s, talk about Easy Mode. :old: :D
But more to the point.........
I just pulled ALL of your stats and pasted them above. Your combined K/D is 2.97 and your K/D just under Violator was 3.15. You never had a lifetime 3.5 K/D. Maybe under certain tours and sorties and fighter modes, but overall your K/D never got higher than 2.97 (or 3.15 if you're only referring to Violator).
Skyyr's K/D, combined from all names, was 3.10. Go pull the stats for the callsign Skyyr alone and you'll see his lifetime K/D under that name was 3.27.
Feel free to argue all you want, but I pasted the raw stat numbers in my previous reply. He had a higher K/D and K/H than you.
Disagree? Post the stats or run Spatula's program yourself.
Whether or not Skyyr had a life isn't something I can speak to...all I know is he outperformed you by more than 150% in 1/4 of the time while holding down a full-time job and working as a part-time flight instructor.
As for outscoring you.... Not only did he beat you in Tour 202 as StarFox for first place he also beat you with his shade Adonai (for third place). You placed 7th. :D :devil
https://imgur.com/a/cp432NY
(https://i.imgur.com/g5W2Gsx.png)
Come on now, Violator. You have to face the truth... (I say this without malice. You have helped me in the DA and I appreciate it, but come on now.)
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: The Fugitive on September 09, 2018, 04:12:41 PM
This bloody is ridiculous. I've been following the link on the webpage under: Scores and Stats -> Statistics - Pilot. I didn't even know there was a dot command (or that it was different), that bails and ditches counted someplaces as deaths etc.
Talk about misleading and complex. Should have Lusche redesign the whole thing from scratch and give him a free subscription for a year.
Maybe this will help you, this is you as "nrshida" over the last 10 years in AH.
(http://66.189.10.34:8080/pics/nrshida.jpg)
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: horble on September 09, 2018, 04:39:52 PM
Cool, you have a tool that pulls all the info? Would be interested in seeing my stats.
No no no, that would be just terble.
:)
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 09, 2018, 05:38:20 PM
That's simply false. Skyyr never made #1 in attack mode. He flew noob airplanes. Yes a 190D and La7 is more noobish than a 109K or a Ki84. 109K is not easy mode.
Infact I don't try for #1 fighter rank every tour. I like to actually challenge myself with harder air planses. I have far more kills in higher eny planes. Not only that, he should have been far more superior In stats for playing 18 hours a day. What you don't understand is that I use attack rank as a throw away. This typically gives me more deaths. So your arguement is flawwed in the sense he didn't outperform me. Skyyr was never top rank in Attack rank either. Nore was he ever #1 in both attack and fighter at the same time. In fighter rank, I almost always had a better K/d and K/s than him. If you measured just fighter rank stats. I'd clearly out perform him in actual air combat statistics in much more styles of planes. Plus, I'm lucky these days if I can get 30 hours a month to play.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: The Fugitive on September 09, 2018, 05:54:22 PM
That's simply false. Skyyr never made #1 in attack mode. He flew noob airplanes. Yes a 190D and La7 is more noobish than a 109K or a Ki84. 109K is not easy mode.
I just posted the screenshot that proves he made #1 and #3 in fighter for the same tour. Quit moving the goal posts every time you lose an argument.
:rolleyes:
Quote
Infact I don't try for #1 fighter rank every tour. I like to actually challenge myself with harder air planses. I have far more kills in higher eny planes. Not only that, he should have been far more superior In stats for playing 18 hours a day. What you don't understand is that I use attack rank as a throw away. This typically gives me more deaths. So your arguement is flawwed in the sense he didn't outperform me. Skyyr was never top rank in Attack rank either. Nore was he ever #1 in both attack and fighter at the same time. In fighter rank, I almost always had a better K/d and K/s than him. If you measured just fighter rank stats. I'd clearly out perform him in actual air combat statistics in much more styles of planes. Plus, I'm lucky these days if I can get 30 hours a month to play.
For a guy who doesn’t understand you sure like to tell people they don’t understand. :old:
The numbers speak for themselves. He flew 1/4 the hours you flew and scored 150% of your kills with a higher K/D and K/H. This is indisputable. Make all the excuses for this you like but that doesn’t change reality.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: icepac on September 09, 2018, 06:10:31 PM
I don't understand your angle in all of this.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: horble on September 09, 2018, 06:15:53 PM
Only horble and horble1 (briefly). Started either Dec 2008 or Jan 2009 with gaps in playing that I can’t remember exactly when took place.
Well Im not going to hunt through to find "horble1" so Ill only run the "horble" ID. The reason I ask for the tours is because it takes time for the program to run and query HTC's data as it has to do one tour at a time with a pause between each so as to not over load the servers.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: horble on September 09, 2018, 06:22:01 PM
Well Im not going to hunt through to find "horble1" so Ill only run the "horble" ID. The reason I ask for the tours is because it takes time for the program to run and query HTC's data as it has to do one tour at a time with a pause between each so as to not over load the servers.
Works for me, thanks dude.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 09, 2018, 06:34:13 PM
I just posted the screenshot that proves he made #1 and #3 in fighter for the same tour. Quit moving the goal posts every time you lose an argument.
:rolleyes:
For a guy who doesn’t understand you sure like to tell people they don’t understand. :old:
The numbers speak for themselves. He flew 1/4 the hours you flew and scored 150% of your kills with a higher K/D and K/H. This is indisputable. Make all the excuses for this you like but that doesn’t change reality.
The reality is that your arguement doesn't take into consideration many other sorties that were not taken seriously in attack mode where I died fooling around. Many also in high eny planes. Your premise is flawed in the sense that skyyr only flew ez mode fighter sorties and never flew as many squad base take missions, attack missions to CVs, ect ect.. as I did. I don't need to fly La7s and 190Ds. Skyyr also took his stats seriously from the time he started while I did not. Measuring his K/D relative to mine over 10 years just isn't compatible. I could start a new account tomorrow, only fly fighters like the LA7 every time, and completely blow skyyrs K/D K/S and hit% out of the water for a year. If you don't believe me just go ahead and bet me like Kruel did ;). I am far more superior in the MA than skyyr was. Overall fighter rank stats will prove it.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 09, 2018, 06:51:02 PM
The reality is that your arguement doesn't take into consideration many other sorties that were not taken seriously in attack mode where I died fooling around. Many also in high eny planes. Your premise is flawed in the sense that skyyr only flew ez mode fighter sorties and never flew as many squad base take missions, attack missions to CVs, ect ect.. as I did. I don't need to fly La7s and 190Ds. Skyyr also took his stats seriously from the time he started while I did not. Measuring his K/D relative to mine over 10 years just isn't compatible. I could start a new account tomorrow, only fly fighters like the LA7 every time, and completely blow skyyrs K/D K/S and hit% out of the water for a year. If you don't believe me just go ahead and bet me like Kruel did ;). I am far more superior in the MA than skyyr was. Overall fighter rank stats will prove it.
I guess you were just "goofing around" which is why he beat you the next two tours, huh? :rolleyes:
"I would beat you every tour but I'm just goofing around." :rofl
https://i.imgur.com/R4Lusgv.jpg
(https://i.imgur.com/R4Lusgv.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/gSXiVl2.jpg
(https://i.imgur.com/gSXiVl2.jpg)
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: The Fugitive on September 09, 2018, 06:53:22 PM
I guess you were just "goofing around" which is why he beat you the next two tours, huh? :rolleyes:
"I would beat you every tour but I'm just goofing around." :rofl
https://i.imgur.com/R4Lusgv.jpg
(https://i.imgur.com/R4Lusgv.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/gSXiVl2.jpg
(https://i.imgur.com/gSXiVl2.jpg)
I beat his fighter rank more times than he did mine and had I better fighter K/D + K/S in the fighter category, undeniable, in more planes. He really wasn't that great in the MA, especially for how many hours he played. His margin for K/D was always around 3. That is low in fighter metrics, probably top 50 per month maybe.... Most of the time a low 2 K/S. That to me is not reflective of phenomenal air combat in the MA. He was really only successful in low eny trainer planes so he could escape the fight. That doesn't compare to me in the slightest. He was an average MA player who played way too much and took it way too seriously in which had to "game" literally, the game to be successful. Lets face it, anyone who dies as much as skyyr would have a high kills/time with regards to quick kills in La7s off the base. It's quite laughable that you are trying to compare his performance by base #s against mine when there really is no comparison as I was never competing with skyyr for 10 years of playing in the MA to begin with...Overall his top figher ranks don't even touch mine. :neener:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: FLOOB on September 09, 2018, 09:16:04 PM
This computer game's scoring system is gamey :neener:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: The Fugitive on September 09, 2018, 09:41:52 PM
I beat his fighter rank more times than he did mine and had I better fighter K/D + K/S in the fighter category, undeniable, in more planes. He really wasn't that great in the MA, especially for how many hours he played. His margin for K/D was always around 3. That is low in fighter metrics, probably top 50 per month maybe.... Most of the time a low 2 K/S. That to me is not reflective of phenomenal air combat in the MA. He was really only successful in low eny trainer planes so he could escape the fight. That doesn't compare to me in the slightest. He was an average MA player who played way too much and took it way too seriously in which had to "game" literally, the game to be successful. Lets face it, anyone who dies as much as skyyr would have a high kills/time with regards to quick kills in La7s off the base. It's quite laughable that you are trying to compare his performance by base #s against mine when there really is no comparison as I was never competing with skyyr for 10 years of playing in the MA to begin with...Overall his top figher ranks don't even touch mine. :neener:
Looks like a perfect example of why the scoring system is "gamey" :devil
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 10, 2018, 12:46:49 AM
Maybe this will help you, this is you as "nrshida" over the last 10 years in AH.
(http://66.189.10.34:8080/pics/nrshida.jpg)
That's awesome, thanks Fugitive. Clearly the way forward for me is as a ship's gunner. Look at my kill death ratio, even though I did no training and, actually, have no memory of trying to shoot anyone down in a ship's gun :rofl
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 10, 2018, 12:50:48 AM
I see you flying 109K4s and KI84s, talk about Easy Mode. :old: :D
I know you two are locked into a dispute, but I would like to point out the small but significant thing - which the score doesn't register at all - context. Experientially, I've flown the Ta152 a bit and the Mosquito a fair bit, and when flown 'properly' they are way more easy mode than pitching my Ki-84 against 2-4 opponents low down & without an energy advantage.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 10, 2018, 12:56:06 AM
Looks like a perfect example of why the scoring system is "gamey" :devil
How is that a perfect example? I don't see your point. There are different mode scores. There are overall stats pages from there. Overall stat pages don't take into account which mode you scored in. Vraciu, before he became glued on comparing my stats to Skyyr, just thought that being top 40 in fighters (which is actually low) from 1 or 2 sorties is "gaming the ranks" but in reality those 2 runs could have scored better metrics than 95% of players besides the points, which points are designed to slow down that issue. He did not take into consideration how I play attack mode for higher eny planes to fool around, and just compared that to my"overall Ma performance" which is a very weak arguement. Before, back in tour 82, I had 49K points and still scored 108 in that metric. The reason why he's able to score at 40 overall with such a low point count is because of the overall player #s. There's nothing gamey about it. Try to get a 5 kill sortie every single run for 15 runs and see how hard that is.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 10, 2018, 09:30:51 AM
Shoot Violator, I'm lucky to find 5 enemies for some of the hours I fly on (http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/facepalm.gif)
I certainly understand your gripe about K/H being in that time zone. When you jump into a big furball, you can get 3-4 quickly and land. If there's only 2-3 cons to fight against at all, it does severely impact your K/H if you are stuck in the sky trying to get more kills. It's a tough metric because you are always racing against time. It's more about what is going on in the environment rather than taking your sole skill into consideration. It could be argued though. I do think it also takes away from players who like to have long sorties and need to when the fights are smaller.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DubiousKB on September 10, 2018, 10:37:08 AM
quickly, someone argue my stats - I need an ego boost on a dismal Monday! :devil
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 10, 2018, 11:44:06 AM
I beat his fighter rank more times than he did mine and had I better fighter K/D + K/S in the fighter category, undeniable, in more planes. He really wasn't that great in the MA, especially for how many hours he played. His margin for K/D was always around 3. That is low in fighter metrics, probably top 50 per month maybe.... Most of the time a low 2 K/S. That to me is not reflective of phenomenal air combat in the MA. He was really only successful in low eny trainer planes so he could escape the fight. That doesn't compare to me in the slightest. He was an average MA player who played way too much and took it way too seriously in which had to "game" literally, the game to be successful. Lets face it, anyone who dies as much as skyyr would have a high kills/time with regards to quick kills in La7s off the base. It's quite laughable that you are trying to compare his performance by base #s against mine when there really is no comparison as I was never competing with skyyr for 10 years of playing in the MA to begin with...Overall his top figher ranks don't even touch mine. :neener:
#FakeNews
Skyyr didn’t skirt the edges of a fight like you usually do. He waded into the middle and had better stats in every metric. You with your 84s and K4s are hardly flying “inferior” rides.
He had 150% more total kills at a higher rate (K/H) and ratio (K/D) than you do and he did it in 25% of the time flown. But you’re the superior pilot? :headscratch:
“Bartender, I’ll have what he’s having!” :old:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 10, 2018, 01:01:00 PM
Skyyr didn’t skirt the edges of a fight like you usually do. He waded into the middle and had better stats in every metric. You with your 84s and K4s are hardly flying “inferior” rides.
He had 150% more total kills at a higher rate (K/H) and ratio (K/D) than you do and he did it in 25% of the time flown. But you’re the superior pilot? :headscratch:
“Bartender, I’ll have what he’s having!” :old:
False. Go ahead and measure the K/D per each plane and kills per each plane compared to mine. Then measure overall fighter rank scores. No comparison. He was actually better at the DA than he was in the MA. Skyyr died a lot in trainer planes, was consistent in around a 3 K/D every tour. Go ahead and look at my attack scores to show a lot of deaths. Overall stats in K/D cannot be compared as he took the game far more seriously from the start of his account. I blow skyyr away in fighter mode K/D, and K/S. He only has a better K/T because he died a lot. That's just the facts. The bottom line is that skyyrs actual K/D per month is very low even when he took it seriously. I went 40-3 in the ki84 last tour with the top K/D. Skyyr could only achieve that maybe in a La7 or 190D, where he could run away. Skkyr ran far more than I do. I can, and do, run circles around skyyrs stats every month. All he really has is a lot of kills and I can guarantee you he spent less time in high eny planes than I did.
The 109 or ki84 are not noob planes. Diving away from trouble and out running your oponents is the highest advantage, the second best advantage is guns. The La7 and 190d have both of those advantages over the 109k and ki84. The 109K may be fast, but you have to learn how to set up angle shots in the K4 in order to get kills, thus making the La7 and 190D have better advantages. I know a lot more about the planes than both you and skyyr put together. Along with scores and styles and how to be successful. Skyyr was decent, but still had a lot to learn in the MA, as well as you. My stats prove actually do prove that. You don't really want me to take it too seriously. And yes, this is where my dweebiness kicks in :D
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: atlau on September 10, 2018, 02:13:39 PM
Why are we fussing about the stats of a cheater?
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 02:28:37 PM
False. Go ahead and measure the K/D per each plane and kills per each plane compared to mine. Then measure overall fighter rank scores. No comparison. He was actually better at the DA than he was in the MA. Skyyr died a lot in trainer planes, was consistent in around a 3 K/D every tour. Go ahead and look at my attack scores to show a lot of deaths. Overall stats in K/D cannot be compared as he took the game far more seriously from the start of his account. I blow skyyr away in fighter mode K/D, and K/S. He only has a better K/T because he died a lot. That's just the facts. The bottom line is that skyyrs actual K/D per month is very low even when he took it seriously. I went 40-3 in the ki84 last tour with the top K/D. Skyyr could only achieve that maybe in a La7 or 190D, where he could run away. Skkyr ran far more than I do. I can, and do, run circles around skyyrs stats every month. All he really has is a lot of kills and I can guarantee you he spent less time in high eny planes than I did.
The 109 or ki84 are not noob planes. Diving away from trouble and out running your oponents is the highest advantage, the second best advantage is guns. The La7 and 190d have both of those advantages over the 109k and ki84. The 109K may be fast, but you have to learn how to set up angle shots in the K4 in order to get kills, thus making the La7 and 190D have better advantages. I know a lot more about the planes than both you and skyyr put together. Along with scores and styles and how to be successful. Skyyr was decent, but still had a lot to learn in the MA, as well as you. My stats prove actually do prove that. You don't really want me to take it too seriously. And yes, this is where my dweebiness kicks in :D
Let's go to the tape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkHQNYDyoD4
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: BowHTR on September 10, 2018, 02:41:07 PM
LmFaO wow he got a kill on me in the MA in a cross shot after trying to HO me. Holy crap batman! That makes him so great in the MA now lmao. Post it on YouTube so you can feel better about yoursleves. :rofl
You cant be serious right now.
He flew 18 hours a day and had a hard time reaching 3.5K/D in fighter mode. Nor was he ever #1 in attack rank. Nor #1 in both at the same time. I don't see whats so great about his performance, tbh. Especially when you look at Grizz, Kappa, Bruv, Rud3boi, Snailman, and other top ranking fighters in the MA. It's not hard to rank high in trainer planes. Case closed.
Want to compare Combat Challenge or FSO too?
This all started because I pointed out how skyyr played figher rank and scored high even with a low K/D and K/S. Now you want to compare "every kill and death I've ever had", which is childesh. but doesn't want compare fighter ranks. Gee I wonder why lmao.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: 1stpar3 on September 10, 2018, 03:20:05 PM
He was a great pilot. People can justify that all they like.
:uhoh EASY...He was always a nice guy to ME. But back to my original idea...VRACIU...were you in Debate Club :rofl I swear, it seems that sometimes you would argue with a STOP SIGN! :devil Not that that is a BAD Characteristic, been known to be that way myself. Grand Father always said I should be a Lawyer or Senator, as much as I liked a good argument :aok Then he would think a bit and say " The Senate...they would need to reinstate DUELING, and Lawyers are crooked...so just pick your arguments carefully. OK, guess I better teach you how to BOX? Dont tell your MOM" :devil
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Ramesis on September 10, 2018, 03:25:43 PM
I think this part of the score is a bit unfair to people who play in off-peak times. For instance it’s not uncommon to chase disappeared darbars and end up bailing out to move to different bases and try again.
Can some allowances be made for arena content?
I don't particularly care about the S/H scores much any score :D But for those that do, more power to ya :cheers:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: atlau on September 10, 2018, 04:21:17 PM
Wasnt he booted for using a 2nd account to target certain individuals? That already provides a significant increase in SA the opponent doesn't have.
He never needed a second account to target anyone.
He posted a long "how to" on doing it via the scores page.
I did it once live on 200 step by step to prove it could be done. I didn't grief anyone as I let the guy I tracked shoot me down (and I do not target or harass anyone--never have). It was simply a one-off public experiment to see if Skyyr's method was plausible and it was. No second account needed.
Why he was booted is a whole other matter. You can go talk to HT in person about that one if you wish.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 05:14:45 PM
LmFaO wow he got a kill on me in the MA in a cross shot after trying to HO me. Holy crap batman! That makes him so great in the MA now lmao. Post it on YouTube so you can feel better about yoursleves. :rofl
You cant be serious right now.
He flew 18 hours a day and had a hard time reaching 3.5K/D in fighter mode. Nor was he ever #1 in attack rank. Nor #1 in both at the same time. I don't see whats so great about his performance, tbh. Especially when you look at Grizz, Kappa, Bruv, Rud3boi, Snailman, and other top ranking fighters in the MA. It's not hard to rank high in trainer planes. Case closed.
Want to compare Combat Challenge or FSO too?
This all started because I pointed out how skyyr played figher rank and scored high even with a low K/D and K/S. Now you want to compare "every kill and death I've ever had", which is childesh. but doesn't want compare fighter ranks. Gee I wonder why lmao.
He's better than you are, V. It's okay. You are a good pilot in your own right. He was just superior and that's the way it is. I don't want to wind up in a merge with either one of you in the MA, that's for sure. :salute
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 05:24:54 PM
Well I killed you in FSO a few months back. :devil
As for Combat Challenge... Skyyr was not a big fan of it (or FSO) so he only flew in one that I'm aware of. He was the top scoring pilot (with 30 kills) of all who played. You should know since you were #4 Axis and tied for #5 overall (with 17 kills or 56.67% of his total). Did he kill you in that one, too, or did you have to "leave early" or something? :D
He's better than you are, V. It's okay. You are a good pilot in your own right. He was just superior and that's the way it is. I don't want to wind up in a merge with either one of you in the MA, that's for sure. :salute
Yeah better at posting videos on YouTube , thats for sure. :rofl
I know you are friends with him so it skews your bias. Other than that the #s simply don't agree with your statements. Measuring "all time K/D" and saying he was better than me is flawwed when you refuse to compare the other metrics I've told you to look up. You aren't acknowledging all of the facts or metrics. You are allowed to believe what you want in your own world but the truth is that you don't understand the MA well enough to make that case. Especially considering that I have better stats in more planes and higher ENY planes than both of you combined, as well as better results in special events. Check tour 192. Skyyr never did that. Check tour 180 28k/d got it to 105K/D. Check tour 82. Skyyr dreams of posting #s like that. Just the truth. I stand by my understanding of AH and air combat performance in AH over skyyr and you any day.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 05:48:53 PM
Yeah better at posting videos on YouTube , thats for sure. :rolf
I know you are friends with him so it skews your bias. Other than that the #s simply don't agree with your statements. Measuring "all time K/D" and saying he was better than me is flawwed when you refuse to compare the other metrics I've told you to look up. You aren't acknowledging all of the facts or metrics. You are allowed to believe what you want in your own world but the truth is that you don't understand the MA well enough to make that case. Especially considering that I have better stats in more planes and higher ENY planes than both of you combined, as well as better results in special events. Check tour 192. Skyyr never did that. Check tour 180 28k/d got it to 105K/D. Check tour 82. Skyyr dreams of posting #s like that. Just the truth. I stand by my understanding of AH and air combat performance in AH over skyyr and you any day.
HE BEATS YOU IN ALL THE OTHER METRICS. :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
I like both of you guys. My evaluation is objective. I consider you both friends. :salute
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: BowHTR on September 10, 2018, 05:53:37 PM
I know for a fact he never used anyone's account but his own... As for the rest...
He, himself, may have never actually used it. But he still used the information he was given to grief another player. Pretty low move. Stand up for him if you wish.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 05:59:44 PM
He, himself, may have never actually used it. But he still used the information he was given to grief another player. Pretty low move. Stand up for him if you wish.
He didn't grief anyone as you state. Not even close. You've just taken a rumor and run with it. People want to justify losing that's on them, not me. Or Skyyr.
Again, take it up with HT.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: BowHTR on September 10, 2018, 06:03:41 PM
He didn't grief anyone as you state. Not even close. You've just taken a rumor and run with it. People want to justify losing that's on them, not me. Or Skyyr.
Again, take it up with HT.
I watched the video of it. Hardly a rumor. It's out there, do some searching.
Nothing to take up with HTC.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 06:09:02 PM
I watched the video of it. Hardly a rumor. It's out there, do some searching.
Nothing to take up with HTC.
I doubt it. Videos require context.
And yes, there is plenty to take up with HT if you want the truth. So you can call him yourself as I have or continue on with half truths. Your choice.
"A rumor goes half way around the world before the truth gets its shoes on."
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Max on September 10, 2018, 06:10:59 PM
And yes, there is plenty to take up with HT if you want the truth. So you can call him yourself as I have or continue on with half truths. Your choice.
"A rumor goes half way around the world before the truth gets its shoes on."
Not when the video is a stream of himself and a buddy doing the entire act from start to finish. Not sure what half truth there is when I watched it from Skyyr's perspective.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 10, 2018, 06:24:52 PM
HE BEATS YOU IN ALL THE OTHER METRICS. :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
I like both of you guys. My evaluation is objective. I consider you both friends. :salute
Its not objective since you are unwilling to understand why he has a .3 better life time K/D than me spending 18 hours a day in majority low eny high E fighters. You are comparing apples to oranges. He should have had a far higher K/D and K/s than me. Not the case. It's crazy to me that I have a 3 k/d in all the years playing while using attack score most of the time to fool around. Like I said, if I started a shade tomorrow, and only flew the La7 and 190D for year. I'd literally tripple skyyrs K/D and K/S. Thats why comparing "life time stats" and your premise is flawwed. Don't test me lol.
For the record. How many kills did skyyr have total in the La7 and 190d. What is his K/D in those planes?
How many kills do I have in my top 2 planes. What is my K/D in them. Just curious.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: The Fugitive on September 10, 2018, 06:40:26 PM
And yes, there is plenty to take up with HT if you want the truth. So you can call him yourself as I have or continue on with half truths. Your choice.
"A rumor goes half way around the world before the truth gets its shoes on."
I saw the video as well and he and his buddies supplied all the context needed. Let it go, Skyyr was an opportunist and a HOer. Sure he had some skill but he wasn't what your trying to make him out to be. I know a lot of players who have far more skill and did it in midwar planes instead of late war monsters.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 06:50:44 PM
Not when the video is a stream of himself and a buddy doing the entire act from start to finish. Not sure what half truth there is when I watched it from Skyyr's perspective.
I saw the video as well and he and his buddies supplied all the context needed. Let it go, Skyyr was an opportunist and a HOer. Sure he had some skill but he wasn't what your trying to make him out to be. I know a lot of players who have far more skill and did it in midwar planes instead of late war monsters.
Yeah. Letting an opposing player repeatedly on your six o'clock is griefing.
Right.
:rofl
There may be players better than he was, but it was most certainly not "a lot" by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 06:53:51 PM
Its not objective since you are unwilling to understand why he has a .3 better life time K/D than me spending 18 hours a day in majority low eny high E fighters. You are comparing apples to oranges. He should have had a far higher K/D and K/s than me. Not the case. It's crazy to me that I have a 3 k/d in all the years playing while using attack score most of the time to fool around. Like I said, if I started a shade tomorrow, and only flew the La7 and 190D for year. I'd literally tripple skyyrs K/D and K/S. Thats why comparing "life time stats" and your premise is flawwed. Don't test me lol.
For the record. How many kills did skyyr have total in the La7 and 190d. What is his K/D in those planes?
How many kills do I have in my top 2 planes. What is my K/D in them. Just curious.
You are unwilling (sic) to understand that he has 25% of the total hours you do and 150% of the kills with a higher K/D. So your argument falls flat on its face.
And if you fooled around in Attack Mode you think he did not? Yet he still beats you. That's an objective evaluation not a subjective one laden with excuses. There is no way to spin it, try as one may.
As for his numbers in individual airplanes I will have to see if I can pull that info... He was good in any plane. Heck, I saw him dogfight in a 51 with a stuck flap and kill three guys. It's not like his success was a fluke.
I had my issues with the guy, but having fought both of you he's on a different plane of skill. Both of you are light years better than I'll ever be, but against you I am at least marginally competitive. Against him it's a slaughterhouse.
#Chemtrails :old:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 10, 2018, 07:04:29 PM
Don't hump his ankle so hard....you keep at it and you'll be bleeding out soon
has anyone seen my Shadow, lately?
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 07:19:13 PM
Its not objective since you are unwilling to understand why he has a .3 better life time K/D than me spending 18 hours a day in majority low eny high E fighthttp://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=post;quote=5234863;topic=394512.150;last_msg=5234876ers. You are comparing apples to oranges. He should have had a far higher K/D and K/s than me. Not the case. It's crazy to me that I have a 3 k/d in all the years playing while using attack score most of the time to fool around. Like I said, if I started a shade tomorrow, and only flew the La7 and 190D for year. I'd literally tripple skyyrs K/D and K/S. Thats why comparing "life time stats" and your premise is flawwed. Don't test me lol.
For the record. How many kills did skyyr have total in the La7 and 190d. What is his K/D in those planes? How many kills do I have in my top 2 planes. What is my K/D in them. Just curious.
(I consider you a friend, V. We talk about stuff away from the game and you've gone out of your way to help me out on things. I am grateful. Keep that in mind.)
Not sure you're going to like the numbers, but since you asked, here they are, V. Remember, he played eight fewer years than you did (and 25% of the total hours). This is not all of Skyyr's shades. He flew other shades with higher stats than this. I'm giving you a handicap. :salute
You are unwilling (sic) to understand that he has 25% of the total hours you do and 150% of the kills with a higher K/D. So your argument falls flat on its face.
And if you fooled around in Attack Mode you think he did not? Yet he still beats you. That's an objective evaluation not a subjective one laden with excuses. There is no way to spin it, try as one may.
As for his numbers in individual airplanes I will have to see if I can pull that info... He was good in any plane. Heck, I saw him dogfight in a 51 with a stuck flap and kill three guys. It's not like his success was a fluke.
I had my issues with the guy, but having fought both of you he's on a different plane of skill. Both of you are light years better than I'll ever be, but against you I am at least marginally competitive. Against him it's a slaughterhouse.
#Chemtrails :old:
Again, that's flawwed. I was never competeing with skyyr on life time stats. What a joke. Did you even compare hours played or is this just your perception of time played? I never played between 2009-2013, btw.
Go ahead and post the individual plane #s. You were obviously able to find them by showing me earlier what my top highest kills in planes are. I'll wait.
#fallacies :old:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 10, 2018, 07:51:56 PM
Clearly you are afraid to measure actual fighter score ranks. # fallacy.
Don't trust your #s btw. Seems very low. I could have sworn i had over 8K kills in a G14. 2500 seems very low.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Lusche on September 10, 2018, 08:07:06 PM
Yayyy, a score measuring contest! :banana: :banana: :banana:
My K/Ds in all those planes are much better than those of these guys. Does that mean I have won AH? :x :joystick: :rofl
(And yes, there's a point hidden in this post... ;))
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 08:15:35 PM
Again, that's flawwed. I was never competeing with skyyr on life time stats. What a joke. Did you even compare hours played or is this just your perception of time played? I never played between 2009-2013, btw.
Go ahead and post the individual plane #s. You were obviously able to find them by showing me earlier what my top highest kills in planes are. I'll wait.
#fallacies :old:
I've been telling you from the get-go hours played. You just don't get it...
Your K/H is lower. There's no way around that.
And as for you ranking #1 more often... You played 381% more tours than he did. So unless you have 381% more #1s than he did then he outperformed you. (He was #1 for 12% of his tours.)
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 10, 2018, 08:16:36 PM
According to these stats. Skyyr who took his stats seriously from day 1, had a .02 better K/D in easy mode trainer planes with an avg eny of 8.5. compared to mine at 20+ eny since playing from 2005 lmao.
And according to these stats. I only had 5K kills total in my 2 most kills plane. With 27Kills total. How can this be accurate?
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: The Fugitive on September 10, 2018, 08:18:59 PM
Yeah. Letting an opposing player repeatedly on your six o'clock is griefing.
Right.
:rofl
There may be players better than he was, but it was most certainly not "a lot" by any stretch of the imagination.
LOL!!! your dreamin! Picking and HOin where his trademarked moves. IF you caught him in a fight he had some move, better than average, but no where near as good as your trying to make him out to be.
Hold on to your jaded for as long as you can. He was a slightly above average "pilot" and an overboard PTA ! I for one am very glad we lost his toxicity in the areas. One of the best things HTC ever did.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 08:23:19 PM
LOL!!! your dreamin! Picking and HOin where his trademarked moves. IF you caught him in a fight he had some move, better than average, but no where near as good as your trying to make him out to be.
Hold on to your jaded for as long as you can. He was a slightly above average "pilot" and an overboard PTA ! I for one am very glad we lost his toxicity in the areas. One of the best things HTC ever did.
If you caught him in a fight? The guy was always wading into hordes outnumbered and taking lots of scalps with him.
If you caught him in a fight you or a lot of your buddies (if not both) were gonna' wind up changing the curtains in the tower. :rofl
You might know who this guy is, Fugi. :devil
https://youtu.be/6T3tEqAu-3I
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: BowHTR on September 10, 2018, 08:32:01 PM
I don't think I've ever seen such ankle grinding. Someone get this man a bandage! :rofl
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 08:36:42 PM
If you caught him in a fight? The guy was always wading into hordes outnumbered and taking lots of scalps with him.
If you caught him in a fight you or a lot of your buddies (if not both) were gonna' wind up changing the curtains in the tower. :rofl
You might know who this guy is, Fugi. :devil
https://youtu.be/6T3tEqAu-3I
...by fight I mean you get him in a situation where he couldnt pick you or HO you he had a few moves and was only just a bit above average as a fighter.
As for the video, what makes you believe that that is me any where in that video? Just because some A hole puts my name on a video doesnt mean Im in it. It only means I had my very own ankle humper. You are SOOOOO delusional! LOL!!!
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 10, 2018, 10:10:43 PM
...by fight I mean you get him in a situation where he couldnt pick you or HO you he had a few moves and was only just a bit above average as a fighter.
As for the video, what makes you believe that that is me any where in that video? Just because some A hole puts my name on a video doesnt mean Im in it. It only means I had my very own ankle humper. You are SOOOOO delusional! LOL!!!
I have the Film Viewer Video. He posted it all on our squadron website. It's you. :ahand
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: DmonSlyr on September 10, 2018, 10:46:09 PM
I have the Film Viewer Video. He posted it all on our squadron website. It's you. :ahand
Skyyr still doesn't come anywhere close to my #s in fighter score, metrics that actually matter when comparing skill by #s during the time played where we were both playing the game competitively in a measured scoring contest. Though I'll admit I had few outliar months where I didn't score well because I hardly played. (I don't always try for #1 unless I'm doing well that month). I even posted a 2.3 2016 entire year average fighter rank. One of my best personal achievements in Ah. "Full time #s" are meaningless. I'll just leave it at that. Hope you guys feel good about yourselves though. I know I do. :cheers:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 10, 2018, 10:51:04 PM
(And yes, there's a point hidden in this post... ;))
I see what you did there.
It's interesting that my OP about context / effectiveness / representation of skill versus game-unto-itslef has mutated into two people debating who was 'better' and using the score to prove it.
My poor thread (which made a reasonable point I think) is going to get locked! :old:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 11, 2018, 12:26:51 AM
I don't see anything wrong to cause your thread to get locked.....not yet anyway
Castles Made of Sand
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2018, 12:42:22 AM
Skyyr still doesn't come anywhere close to my #s in fighter score, metrics that actually matter when comparing skill by #s during the time played where we were both playing the game competitively in a measured scoring contest. Though I'll admit I had few outliar months where I didn't score well because I hardly played. (I don't always try for #1 unless I'm doing well that month). I even posted a 2.3 2016 entire year average fighter rank. One of my best personal achievements in Ah. "Full time #s" are meaningless. I'll just leave it at that. Hope you guys feel good about yourselves though. I know I do. :cheers:
#Excuses
Skyyr > Violator
But you are both my friends. :cheers:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2018, 12:43:18 AM
It's interesting that my OP about context / effectiveness / representation of skill versus game-unto-itslef has mutated into two people debating who was 'better' and using the score to prove it.
My poor thread (which made a reasonable point I think) is going to get locked! :old:
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 11, 2018, 12:58:02 AM
If you are going to quote me, please include the complete post......
Now this might be a Rule#4 flame bait post, but why don't all of you ankle humping lemmings take your high jacking side fight to personal message, so nrshida's thread don't get locked......now there! I've called all of you ankle humpers...
I was not personally attacking, singling you out, Vraciu..... I only do things like that when I think it's truly warranted... (regardless of the person whoever it might be)
Have a Good evening, past my bedtime
Cheers
TC
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: 1stpar3 on September 11, 2018, 01:58:53 AM
It's interesting that my OP about context / effectiveness / representation of skill versus game-unto-itslef has mutated into two people debating who was 'better' and using the score to prove it.
My poor thread (which made a reasonable point I think) is going to get locked! :old:
NOW dang it, fellers! I missed the ole days...this seems like an inside joke to me? Like meaning of IN..when used in posts? I must have missed something...other than time I could have been playing AH. DANG kids and responsibilities :devil
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Vraciu on September 11, 2018, 02:05:05 AM
Yayyy, a score measuring contest! :banana: :banana: :banana:
My K/Ds in all those planes are much better than those of these guys. Does that mean I have won AH? :x :joystick: :rofl
(And yes, there's a point hidden in this post... ;))
The point being that the game will soon cease to exist, so something like an overall winner can finally be determined?
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: nrshida on September 11, 2018, 04:11:33 AM
That's it I quit trying to make reasonable observations. I'm going back to my own qualitative scoring system where you know if you're flying well or not with feel. A far more reliable measure than loosely-associated variables. Also applies when you fight someone better than youself which I have no problem with by-the-way, because I've found it has always been more useful to my development than counting how many kills I've got.
Title: Re: Kills per sortie / hour
Post by: Skuzzy on September 11, 2018, 06:21:15 AM