Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Naughty on September 15, 2014, 10:09:35 PM
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Was Introducing a friend to Aces High, and after letting him fly OFF LINE for a bit, I brought him here to show him the Graphics update Hi-tec had posted. funny thing though.. Clicked on the link to the YouTube video, and an AD for War Thunder came up. A really cool, well produced AD. It grabbed both our attention, and we figured we give it a try. I've heard of War Thunder many times but was never curious to try it till I saw this AD...
Sign up was a piece of cake, and it kept saying it was totally FREE. Hell I was even able to procure my long time handle ! I was impressed with the sign up procedure and splash pages. Great graphics..
Untill I came to the DOWNLOAD. almost 45 minutes !!!
The game finally downloaded and we were able to look around. What a piece of crap excuse for a fighter game ! felt like I was playing Atari back in the day. Total waste of my time. no wonder it's free !
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45 mins? Lucky you. It took me 18 hours to download just to try it out for 11 minutes and come to the conclusion that it is as bad as I've heard.
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Not surprised you thought it was trash.
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War Thunder sure looks pretty, but there are a few things I still can't get used to:
1. Waiting 15 minutes just to get hooked into an arena. Sitting there doing nothing for 15 minutes, waiting for a server. And then once you get there, there's a time limit (at least in free mode). Once the time limit is reached, the scenario is over and you're back at the hangar.
2. While firing a tank round in WT looks neat (shock wave ripples are cool), between the ripples and the large cloud of dirt that gets generated when your round misses, it's very difficult to adjust your fire.
3. The T-28 and T-50 tanks are rattle traps. And get used to them. Because if you don't want your credit charged for all the micro-transactions to move up to a prime ride, you're stuck in a rusty T-28.
4. Speaking of Number 3 above, you can't just log in and pick a panther. You either have to pay real money to move up to a panther, go through this BS training mode, and pay the fake award money to make sure your crew is good and your equipment is in tip top shape, etc, then earn enough fake award money and points to move up.
5. AH has perk points. Simple. You get awarded points, and you expend them if you want a perk ride. In WT, there is a 3-tier system of 'coinage' or 'fundage' or whatever you want to call those things. I could never get the hang of it.
6. My biggest peeve with WT: setting views in the cockpit is like neurosurgery on a squirrel.
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yeah the game sucks big time.
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YOU FOOL!
It's pronounced "war blunder"
:noid
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War thunder= kanye west
Aceshigh = deftones
One has a trillion more "fans" do to outcry, but sucks terribly and is a POS, the other has talent, musicianship, originality, passion, and a true fan base, Yet they are slowely dying and hardly get noticed.
Such as is the world. AcesHigh will privail once more.
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Never tried war thunder, never will. Seen enough vids on youtube to deter me before I was foolish enough to try it.
That being said...
I personally believe that the aces high graphic update is simply to keep the eye candy pleasing (within the last decade :P) and a fresh new look to it. Moreso to attract some of the eyecandy lovers of this generation and some of the older ones as well. I have no doubt that some of the planes and GVs that have needed updates will get them, along with the newly designed fields etc.
It doesn't hurt to change clothes every now and then, it might not get you any new dates, but it doesn't hurt to change appearance from time to time.
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Never tried war thunder, never will. Seen enough vids on youtube to deter me before I was foolish enough to try it.
That being said...
I personally believe that the aces high graphic update is simply to keep the eye candy pleasing (within the last decade :P) and a fresh new look to it. Moreso to attract some of the eyecandy lovers of this generation and some of the older ones as well. I have no doubt that some of the planes and GVs that have needed updates will get them, along with the newly designed fields etc.
It doesn't hurt to change clothes every now and then, it might not get you any new dates, but it doesn't hurt to change appearance from time to time.
Eye candy is essential for marketing (and for many players too). No matter how great simulation models AH has it just can't compete if it's graphically 20 years behind. People nowadays want flashy effects and cinema-like gaming experiences. This puts a huge pressure especially when the new play for free competitors all offer latest generation graphics.
One can question how come they can find a million players that can run the latest graphics (even if at lowest settings) and HTC keeps saying AH can't. The problem may be due to AH being an old niche product, many players are getting old and are not necessarily interested in technology -> won't update their computers. If you would make a 'pictures of players' thread on WT it would probably have teenagers in it, AH has practically pensioners collection :D
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YOU FOOL!
It's pronounced "war blunder"
:noid
I see now.
I always thought it was pronounced "Wart Thunder", which didn't make any sense. Unless the game was about some agonizing skin condition.
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Took 15 min for me, and i tried game with almost all graphic settings at max : Graphics are excellent... :aok
Maybe u meant u re playing from an Atari ST ? :headscratch:
Even if i prefer Aces High for the gaming experience, lets stay in reality : WT thunder graphics and cockpits are superb... !
(http://i60.tinypic.com/f3s0n4.png)
Was Introducing a friend to Aces High, and after letting him fly OFF LINE for a bit, I brought him here to show him the Graphics update Hi-tec had posted. funny thing though.. Clicked on the link to the YouTube video, and an AD for War Thunder came up. A really cool, well produced AD. It grabbed both our attention, and we figured we give it a try. I've heard of War Thunder many times but was never curious to try it till I saw this AD...
Sign up was a piece of cake, and it kept saying it was totally FREE. Hell I was even able to procure my long time handle ! I was impressed with the sign up procedure and splash pages. Great graphics..
Untill I came to the DOWNLOAD. almost 45 minutes !!!
The game finally downloaded and we were able to look around. What a piece of crap excuse for a fighter game ! felt like I was playing Atari back in the day. Total waste of my time. no wonder it's free !
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Just watched a video of this horrible game.
What's realistic about B17s chasing fighters ? Or Sopwiths flying with 17s?
We REALLY need to get the word out about AH...
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War Thunder sure looks pretty, but there are a few things I still can't get used to:
1. Waiting 15 minutes just to get hooked into an arena. Sitting there doing nothing for 15 minutes, waiting for a server. And then once you get there, there's a time limit (at least in free mode). Once the time limit is reached, the scenario is over and you're back at the hangar.
2. While firing a tank round in WT looks neat (shock wave ripples are cool), between the ripples and the large cloud of dirt that gets generated when your round misses, it's very difficult to adjust your fire.
3. The T-28 and T-50 tanks are rattle traps. And get used to them. Because if you don't want your credit charged for all the micro-transactions to move up to a prime ride, you're stuck in a rusty T-28.
4. Speaking of Number 3 above, you can't just log in and pick a panther. You either have to pay real money to move up to a panther, go through this BS training mode, and pay the fake award money to make sure your crew is good and your equipment is in tip top shape, etc, then earn enough fake award money and points to move up.
5. AH has perk points. Simple. You get awarded points, and you expend them if you want a perk ride. In WT, there is a 3-tier system of 'coinage' or 'fundage' or whatever you want to call those things. I could never get the hang of it.
6. My biggest peeve with WT: setting views in the cockpit is like neurosurgery on a squirrel.
So what you're saying that it's a class based game. Those who can afford to spend big time money get to basically walk around like kings in Panthers and better fighting machines while those with less funds or who earn it the hard way are stuck playing with the crap?
That's what I like about Aces High. Doesn't matter how much money you have, if you're a dolt with a joystick who spends big money on a high end machine with a fancy graphics card means squat in our arenas. You're still a dolt who will get owned by another player with a 6 year old PC in the exact same aircraft. The $15 a month means you're all on the same playing field.
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Let me get this right: Since its a free to play game, how exactly is the company supposed to fund it if not by charging for better vehicles and planes?
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Mister Fork, it's even worse than that. When you first start playing WT, you're in a rattle trap ride like a rusty (literally) T-28 or pea-shooter plane like a P-26, against Tigers and BF-109's. And you're stuck in those rides until you either earn enough of the fake coinage to upgrade (in the free version), or swipe your credit card.
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Let me get this right: Since its a free to play money, how exactly is the company supposed to fund it if not by charging for better vehicles and planes?
In the micro-transaction version, you get charged for pretty much everything - more ammo, better ammo, better ride, better engine, better crew. And they have 8 million subscribers.
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Mister Fork, it's even worse than that. When you first start playing WT, you're in a rattle trap ride like a rusty (literally) T-28 or pea-shooter plane like a P-26, against Tigers and BF-109's. And you're stuck in those rides until you either earn enough of the fake coinage to upgrade (in the free version), or swipe your credit card.
They should get a tier system like WoT. But on full realism thered be nobody left then.
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In the micro-transaction version, you get charged for pretty much everything - more ammo, better ammo, better ride, better engine, better crew. And they have 8 million subscribers.
Yes but people act like they're supposed to get the full features for free. You get what you pay for.
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Eye candy is essential for marketing (and for many players too). No matter how great simulation models AH has it just can't compete if it's graphically 20 years behind. People nowadays want flashy effects and cinema-like gaming experiences. This puts a huge pressure especially when the new play for free competitors all offer latest generation graphics.
One can question how come they can find a million players that can run the latest graphics (even if at lowest settings) and HTC keeps saying AH can't. The problem may be due to AH being an old niche product, many players are getting old and are not necessarily interested in technology -> won't update their computers. If you would make a 'pictures of players' thread on WT it would probably have teenagers in it, AH has practically pensioners collection :D
the problem with the million "teenagers" is that they dont have money to spend, that's why they gravitate to "free games". it's the old guys like us with jobs that subsides those "million" players with great graphics.
semp
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I tried it once. My second sortie I got shot at ON SPAWN by one of my own teammates because he didn't want to fly around me. Flew maybe 3-4 sorties altogether. Uninstalled.
It's pretty, but that's about all it's got going for it. Small arenas, queues to wait for a fight, suspect flight modelling, and utter neglect of the more advanced modes. Was a complete waste of my time.
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Yes but people act like they're supposed to get the full features for free. You get what you pay for.
Then I guess it isn't really free.
- oldman
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I regularly play War Thunder and not Aces High for that one simple reason. It is free to play, and Aces High isn't. Comparing the two games is really comparing apples and oranges though. Aces High is much more of a proper simulation with proper flight modeling and historical accuracy, while war thunder comes off like an easy arcade style game. I'll just state the advantages of each game.
War Thunder advantages:
War Thunder has better graphics by a pretty wide margin. The details of both the terrain and the aircraft models are downright spectacular.
It's also a lot more instant action friendly. I can fire up a match almost instantly and they rarely take more than 15 minutes to play in arcade battle settings. This, coupled with a large active player base ensures you can get a match quickly. In Aces High I'd be hard pressed to get anything done in 15 minutes, sometimes even finding a fight at all takes longer with the relatively low number of players.
War Thunder has simplistic keyboard and mouse controls, even a small child could play it easily, and I don't need to buy or keep a big unwieldly flightstick on my desk to play it.
The scope of the game larger for War Thunder as far as planes and vehicles. It has aircraft from the early 1930's ranging up to the Korean war cutoff of 1953, including several postwar Jets. It's newly released ground mode has tons of tanks and vehicles (presumably to compete with World of Tanks).
Perhaps most importantly, to me, I don't have to maintain a monthly subscription to play War Thunder. Yes, I've paid for premium account time in the past and other micro transactions to unlock plane slots but now that I've had my account for over a year and I've unlocked most of the planeset and trained most of my crews, there's really no reason I ever have to spend money on the game again and I still retain the ability to play it as much as I want. Aces High was always hitting my credit card for 15 a month whether or not I even played it on a given month and that got old fast. It really didn't seem worthwhile if I only played it once or twice during that month.
Aces High advantages:
Aces High is by far the superior simulation, with by far the best flight modeling and damage modeling I've seen in this kind of game. War Thunder by comparison has a completely nonsensical arcade flight model, that will have bombers like an A-20 pulling 16g turns while a jet like the F-84B gets restricted to 9G. The damage modeling in war thunder is even more of a joke and varies dramatically from patch to patch. For example it's not uncommon to saddle up on a 4 engine bomber and unload all 6 of your browning m3 .50 cals into it till the belts are completely gone and have it still fly off to drop it's bombs on your base.
Aces High has huge persistent world maps with long term strategic objectives. War thunder has instant action team matches with 8-20 players per side, the spawns are in the air and so close together that a fast jet could traverse from one spawn to the other on a smaller map in around 1 minute. The smaller maps themselves are perhaps only 5 to 10 miles across.
In Aces High you must land to re-arm. In war thunder depending on the plane, weapons and crew everything reloads in the air. A heavy bomber will regenerate it's bomb load in as little as 30 seconds, which is less time than it even takes to set up a proper bombing run in most cases. .50 caliber armed planes will reload their belts in as little as 6 seconds (you can't even fire them out that fast). However, Aces High doesn't model guns overheating and jamming and you can just hold the trigger down till your guns go dry. In War Thunder the guns will start to heat up and jam if you fire them continuously for too long.
Aces High doesn't have the nonsense level up and upgrade system that War Thunder has. Every plane and vehicle in War Thunder has both a crew and several upgrade parts that have to be leveled/unlocked. These things dramatically affect the overall performance and capability of the plane and have pretty much nothing to do with reality.
In the end, I like both games, both are fun in their own way. But the one I'm still *playing* is War Thunder, simply because it's free to play and provides a fun gaming experience that can fit into a short timeframe.
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I read this, many great thoughts and the War Thunder picture is awesome! Imagine that quality of picture with Oculus Rift....it is nearly virtual reality.
Other than these comments I read 'yada yada yada...marketing!'
AH suffers from a lack of marketing. The guess is once they have finished the engine they will ramp up the marketing. I hope.
The next possible step will be, what we call in the corporate world "on-boarding." How do you take someone new to your community and culture and get them with the team? A big deal in the real world. In AH the more common 'on-boarding' experience is learning what "Alt-F4" means. That is almost like 'pull my finger.' Over the past couple years I've read some great ideas on how to 'on-board' "two-weekers" to keep them around.
Step 1, finish the eye candy
Step 2, market the crap out of AH
Step 3, introduce some thoughtful ideas on how to 'on-board' new players.
AH will fly high again: 550 or more sticks flying these huge maps; squad actions; epic missions with 40-70 players almost nightly; a culture that allows you to drag 1 bad guy out of a furball to do a 1v1 without getting picked or horded.
Dare to dream...!
boo
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the problem with the million "teenagers" is that they dont have money to spend, that's why they gravitate to "free games". it's the old guys like us with jobs that subsides those "million" players with great graphics.
semp
Really? Looks to me like War Thunder is making a few millions of turnover per year. They have decisively more resources than HTC and much higher market value due to high subscriber count so they can get also financing easier. F2P model didn't come out of nowhere.
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A thought-provoking post by HPriller.
How does capitalism compete with 'free'? Mr. Ripley nailed it I think. There's plenty of examples in modern life where free-loading is encouraged as an ideal. But somebody has to pay, don't they?
War Thunder's design for player progression is clever...it's not just old guys with jobs that pay the freight, however. It's anybody who's talent or experience is lacking and a (fostered) belief that tapping your credit card will make you more competitive (arch-baddazz). It's a market of 'want'. Yikes. This hits a personal nerve. I have great equipment (it's my hobby) but I still am little better than a noob in AH. I have fun here and I like the community.
So call me entrenched, I just don't see the need to change. It also strikes me that War Thunder (and all 'free' games) is VERY vulnerable to the next social media-fueled thing. It could leave them standing amid a ghost town of server infrastructure?
Mthrockmor - NAILED IT. On-boarding is a critically correct process for Aces High. There's a lot of ways this could be done with the existing game engine and new graphics. There is an offline potential here for prospective members. Then there's a potential for a new, protected, and helpful venue for AH Trainers. Hazing has no place if you want to keep your operation alive over time.
:salute
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Let me get this right: Since its a free to play game, how exactly is the company supposed to fund it if not by charging for better vehicles and planes?
It just shows that F2P games aren't really free and games like WoT/WT are basically pay to win games. Those that shell out the cash will have the advantage over those that don't.
ack-ack
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Anyone considered this strategy:
At the rate AH is going shedding down vet numbers with aggressive, inhospitable personalities towards two weekers and sqweekers. When AH3 is released along with the new advertising. For the near term, new players will be entering an MA different in it's hostility towards them than in 2007.
Comparing or differing WT and AH is meaningless. In the end the argument gets abused to assert and inflame our insecurities over or self worth due to identifying with our choices. Comparisons between the two games is intellectually unfair. How do you compare your local lake where everyone recreationally rides bicycles around it on weekends and the Tour de France?
We should know better by now and stop falling into this trap. It's too easy to help ourselves act insecure.
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War thunder= kanye west
Aceshigh = deftones
One has a trillion more "fans" do to outcry, but sucks terribly and is a POS, the other has talent, musicianship, originality, passion, and a true fan base, Yet they are slowely dying and hardly get noticed.
Such as is the world. AcesHigh will privail once more.
Aces High won't take off again because it's full of people who still like deftones and think Kanye West is bad
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Imagine HT going the same route as WT. Free to play! You get the P-40, A6M3, 202, 109E. The K4, P-51, D9 start at $25.
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It just shows that F2P games aren't really free and games like WoT/WT are basically pay to win games. Those that shell out the cash will have the advantage over those that don't.
ack-ack
Yep but WoT has at least found a pretty good balance - it's not totally unplayable even when played free unlike War Thunder.
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Aces High won't take off again because it's full of people who still like deftones and think Kanye West is bad
I guess Kanye West is good if you're into that crap. Thing is, he's exceptionally bad at controlling his pie-hole otherwise.... then he marries Queen Biggabutt of the Nastyho tribe. Genius.
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Imagine HT going the same route as WT. Free to play! You get the P-40, A6M3, 202, 109E. The K4, P-51, D9 start at $25.
If it would limit the late war high speed 'one pass, haul a**' runners, I'd be all for it.
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Yep but WoT has at least found a pretty good balance - it's not totally unplayable even when played free unlike War Thunder.
I disagree with this. War Thunder isn't totally unplayable if you don't play. You can have a blast at lower tiers without paying anything. Additionally, with the exception the specific premium planes, everything can be unlocked with the game earned currencies, albeit very slowly. It's not anywhere near as pay2win as some of the games out there. Also it's pretty much pay once, keep forever as once something is unlocked/leveled it stays that way, you don't have to keep paying to use it. I've spent less money on war thunder than I have on Aces High in the past, and unlike Aces High I can keep playing it (as much or as little as I choose) without spending any more money. Since I have most of the planeset already unlocked, I don't even have any strong reason to spend more money on it. This is a pretty big advantage in my book.
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War thunder is poo
I am awesome :old:
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you don't have to keep paying to use it.
As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.
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War thunder= kanye west
Aceshigh = deftones
Hah, brilliant, that's advertising perfection right there IMO.
WT exists IMO as a marketing opportunity for this product here at HTC. I truly feel this way. It's popular enough and has enough thrust behind it in terms of word of mouth, advertising, and many favorable game reviews (quantity more than quality in this regard IMO), that it has introduced huge numbers of players to the WW2 online air combat genre. Now it's just a matter of creating a product that is close enough in terms of the visuals, and completely blows it out of the water in terms of game play experience. Even getting a single digit of a % of WT customers would be a company and game changing event for HTC IMO. Luring these customers here from WT could most easily be accomplished by showing them things they are already familiar with (f2p), with the promise of something much more than that available as an option (monthly subscription part of the game).
I still believe that the key to increased subscribers is to blend the f2p model with what HTC has now, without engaging in the "battle of the pocketbook" cash for technology that goes in in current F2P games like WoT and such. Allow players to engage in a f2p segment of the AH experience which allows them to see what is going on in the entire game, limit them from the really fun stuff, as an enticement to subscribe. As I and others have said before, perhaps allow some vehicles and the Storch be free, perhaps PT boats, or better yet a new infantry controllable squad and the jeep, and allow perhaps 300 or whatever the servers could handle into the MA on top of the paying subscribers. It'll give subscribers more targets and stuff to engage, stuff to do, as well as likely attract 10 percent of those f2p guys into the reg sub game.
With such a model, since F2P players will be fairly familiar with the entire MA game, reduce the current 2 week free trail to a much shorter period, so that the F2P customers get a brief and overwhelming dose of what having the entire inventory of vehicles and aircraft opened up is like, which IMO would increase subscription rates from this pack of new players. Also create a streamlined, consolidated, and regularly updated game manual, and funnel this into the already excellent training corps.
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If it would limit the late war high speed 'one pass, haul a**' runners, I'd be all for it.
I think what it would do is give life to early and mid war arenas.
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You will end up full circle back to the same freeloader tribes of tiny napoleons who killed the free HtH arenas. Then you would have bailing from the MA pay to play coming back in using 2 week subscriptions from time to time while camping out in the FtP. Wanting Hitech to go FtP I will venture, is also the posters admitting they like AH but, will accept a limited ride set to be able to play for free while enjoying the physics.
In essence a free equivalent of the old AW Small Europe arena. And for years back then we had player numbers and fights. Compared to AH today, was a very limited plane set with two vehicles. But, then I suspect some of you asking for FtP already know this.
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I have tried to get a few Co workers and friends that play war thunder, to try aces high, once again they look at graphics 97 YouTube and basically say, look at graphics, you pay 15 a month for that, I'm hoping with new engine the game looks alot better, I even showed my friend the new video and again graphics issue came up.
Boomhaur
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Most of you are too gentlemanly to think of this, but you could find "ace" War Thunder pilots on Twitch. Then tell them every ACM mistake they make, and when they protest, challenge them to a duel in Aces High. That might get some converts. Or at least attention to this game.
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Say what you will about WT.................
They have 13141 playing right now....
AH has 230....
If AH dies.......... where are we going? back to Warbirds?
CAVALRY
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Wanting Hitech to go FtP I will venture, is also the posters admitting they like AH but, will accept a limited ride set to be able to play for free while enjoying the physics.
If that is directed towards my post, how did you come up with that idea?! In fact the exact opposite is the idea I put forward, DENY that plane set from the FTP portion of the arena, while still letting them see and experience what's going on with them by being part of the action in a limited way in other units which aren't much used currently, or don't currently exist and would be created for this specific purpose.
A limited ride set being enjoyed you say? All I mentioned was just the Storch. Wow, that'll sure be some free physics that you'll be able to enjoy for months there. I've specifically said in that post and the two others I've made on the topic that the entire planeset outside of PERHAPS just the Storch would remain part of the subscription game, and the only FTP portions would be minimally used things like certain GVs and perhaps a new type of unit like an infantry squad or something like that. I've subscribed for years now and played less than 1 hour a month for the last 2 years, it's obvious I'm not seeking a "free ride" as I pay still even when not playing, but rather to increase the numbers in the game to make that subscription actually worth it, as IMO it hasn't been for a long time, and I've only kept it up in the hopes that the long awaiting update will do just that - increase numbers. New graphics alone though isn't going to be enough to sustain any temporary boost in numbers that it will bring IMO, hence the aformentioned ideas to get and keep more numbers. It has nothing to do with price or getting a free game, I think I've made it obvious enough that the free to play part could/should be just enough to entice those FTP to join the full subscription service in enough numbers to warrant its existence.
My idea is to have the FTP players and part of the game not be a hinderance to the subscribers, but in fact give them more human/live targets and things to do, while also creating a pool of ftp players that through observation and participation will come to see the value and fun of the full subscription environment and units, and increase the subscriber base when they join.
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Say what you will about WT.................
They have 13141 playing right now....
AH has 230....
If AH dies.......... where are we going? back to Warbirds?
CAVALRY
Racing Sims
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Racing Sims
To late.... been playing Iracing for years.
Cavalry
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There's no worry about AH going to the F2P business model, HiTech already stated that he wouldn't use a F2P business model for a game like AH.
ack-ack
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To late.... been playing Iracing for years.
Cavalry
Well i guess High Tech will just have to stay around, I'm not going any where else.
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:lol WoT :rofl
THAT'S the joke.
WT is better than WoT.
And I found it fairly funny that someone said you would be a T-28 fighting Tigers? :lol Thank you for that laugh, it helped. :aok
Half the folks here probably have not even tried playing WT. I was an idiot too, listening to what others said about it and mocking it, without actually trying it out and putting some time into it. Man, my boot does not taste good. I have quite a bit of fun in it. It's graphically very beautiful, just love how tracers and hit sprites look in WT. I get racked nose to tail by 303's and I may have an engine that is ever so slightly smoking. Like watching those gun cam vids really. The planes look great, with details of auto-adjusting cowl flaps. Tanks are nice as well, though the maps suck. It's all way too small. Even the aerial maps can be a bit feh. Tolerable, but feh. Tank maps can piss me off though. :lol
An example of one of my recently runs; I was flying the Blenheim in one map, fairly cloudy. I wanted a little speed so I could reach the target and get the hell out of dodge, so I dove below the clouds. Risky, but can work out if a little lucky. For a moment, I spotted something through a small gap in the clouds over me. "Oh boy. Hope they didn't spot my arse...". Unfortunately, they did. They came screaming down through the clouds, an I-15, I-16 and a MiG-3. Otto starts opening up on the first one in range, the I-15. The I-15 is landing some solid hits on my R wing and tail. "Not good..." Knowing Otto isn't exactly the most skilled, I take over. I-15 was to have a very toasty day, as he soon catches fire. "He's done..". The I-16 follows the same path as the I-15, making it easy to get guns on him, but the MiG stays just under the clouds and gets a little over me. I-16 opens up, raking my L wing, but mostly hitting fuselage. My guess is he was going for a pilot kill as most of the rounds were front part of the plane. #1 starts to put out a very slight white smoke from his attack but I manage to pay him back in greater, as he starts spouting thick black smoke. That sent him packing. "Now, where is the real trouble?" Just as I start to scan high, I see tracers start pouring into my plane. Hits are focused around the turret. I only manage to get a few rounds off when, *Gunner Unconscious* "Damn!" He was doing the smart thing, going for the gunner. I couldn't do anything but watch as he pumped every bit of his ammo into my Blenheim, screwing up just about everything except critical flight controls. He focused on #1 and the L wing, but I lucked out for sure. He ran out of ammo and had to RTB. "Let's see if I can get home..." Number 1 engine was hit and losing oil pretty quick, and I already was dealing with a handful as my wings were shot to hell, making it already a little tricky to fly. I manage to get clear of all visible contacts when #1 goes dead. Now I have full rudder just trying to keep her from rolling over, and with my wings so bad off, yeah. A little tricky became a major pain in the arse. "All's well..." I said to myself. I have to keep #2 going at full or I will just fall out of the sky like a rock. Slow, easy movements. Let the plane steer herself. Runway is just up ahead, get my flaps down and see what she'll do. So far, a-okay. In fact, she is a little more stable right now. Throttle down a bit, get to 150 but keep gear up, don't want to drop until I'm off the runway. She's starting to yaw a bit hard but still manageable. Drop gear as I get to the runway, but made a fatal mistake. I throttled down too much, she starts to yaw very hard to the left then snaps R, as R wing dips into the ground. R wing rips off and as my Blenheim slams into the ground, breaks off the L wing. She just skids down the runway a little before coming to rest. While it did credit the MiG with the kill, it still said I performed a soft landing. :aok In my book, I won. :D
In all due honesty, I got damn lucky. But if this had happened in AH, I would have no wing's, and been in the tower ages ago. WT has something AH doesn't, gradual damage. A little quirky, but it is there. AH is: It's there/it's not there. I hate that about AH in all honesty, and really wish they would up the battle damage system a bit.
All in all, I enjoy both games quite a bit. Aces High has a very nice Strategic depth to it that WT just can't compare to. There is a LOT more to do in Aces High, which pretty much limited by your willingness to do it. War Thunder is graphically very beautiful, with it at times looking like I'm watching a gun cam shot from WW2. They have a gradual damage system in place that gives me some kind of chance to do something, rather than just *POP No wing*. Usually doesn't save my arse, but there HAVE been times. :) They both have their pro's and con's. :aok
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Most of you are too gentlemanly to think of this, but you could find "ace" War Thunder pilots on Twitch. Then tell them every ACM mistake they make, and when they protest, challenge them to a duel in Aces High. That might get some converts. Or at least attention to this game.
Why do AH players think that everyone wants to be challenged to pissing matches like it's an elementary school playground?
Plus, by the time they figure out how to use Aces High's clunky, ancient UI, they'll be tired of playing the game already
Like everyone else who considers it and then buzzes off to WT
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Regardless of how each of us feels, I think all of us probably agree that numbers are way, way down, and something needs to be done beyond just visuals upgrades. Logged in at 8 pm central, 207 players in the MA, and none in the other arenas save the DA. Titanic Tuesday's not so long ago I can recall having to wait to get in because it was full at times, and the Blue and Orange servers were the same deal, patiently waiting to get into the one your pals or squad was logged into.
I'll repeat that it CAN be done, but action of SOME kind has to be taken, it isn't going to fix itself.
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Say what you will about WT.................
They have 13141 playing right now....
AH has 230....
If AH dies.......... where are we going? back to Warbirds?
CAVALRY
Star Citizen, maybe Elite: Dangerous.
Hello Kitty Island Adventure? Angelina Jolie Kate Upton Bubble Bath Funtime Scramble?
It's an odd place AH is in, that's for sure. I don't know what gameplay changes would work with this game to be honest. I'd hate to see it lose the open world gameplay, but I truly think that's what makes it unpopular.
Wiley.
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I disagree with this. War Thunder isn't totally unplayable if you don't play. You can have a blast at lower tiers without paying anything. Additionally, with the exception the specific premium planes, everything can be unlocked with the game earned currencies, albeit very slowly. It's not anywhere near as pay2win as some of the games out there. Also it's pretty much pay once, keep forever as once something is unlocked/leveled it stays that way, you don't have to keep paying to use it. I've spent less money on war thunder than I have on Aces High in the past, and unlike Aces High I can keep playing it (as much or as little as I choose) without spending any more money. Since I have most of the planeset already unlocked, I don't even have any strong reason to spend more money on it. This is a pretty big advantage in my book.
All I know is that I got blasted by a La-5 while flying a WWI biplane. That doesn't happen in WoT.
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Star Citizen, maybe Elite: Dangerous.
I'd love to, but I will never have a computer meeting the minimum requirements of those ;)
I'd hate to see it lose the open world gameplay, but I truly think that's what makes it unpopular.
I beg to differ. See Eve Online... it's almost as open world as you can get, but it's vastly popular.
Open world may very well not appeal to everyone, but it's certainly not making any game unpopular as such. IMHO the open world concept has been, and still is, a huge asset of AH, possibly even it's greatest one. It's only really becoming a problem when the world is too 'open', too much space to avoid each other in a game which centers almost exclusively around battling each other. We are facing this particular problem recently on some large maps.
It's other factors that contributed to the decline in player numbers.
As to WT... I always feel a bit uneasy if a different, but somewhat likewise game is being mocked on a forum. Even more so when it comes from player who didn't even play it. There's a lot of shallow snobism to be found in such threads.
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As to WT... I always feel a bit uneasy if a different, but somewhat likewise game is being mocked on a forum. Even more so when it comes from player who didn't even play it. There's a lot of shallow snobism to be found in such threads.
If history repeats itself, AH will die away and the mockers will move to WT as happened with WB. I hope that wont happen.
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All I know is that I got blasted by a La-5 while flying a WWI biplane. That doesn't happen in WoT.
Yes, but you can have a AMX-40 run into a KV-1S, no? Same deal for both games, the MMs has limits and you found them. The Battle rating of the LA-5 is 3.0, so if you had researched any aircraft with a BR of 2.0 or higher and added it to your aircraft roster, then yes you would run into it. The MM looks at the highest BR in your roster and goes with that. If you have a Mig-15 but the rest are Bi-planes you will be put into a high BR battle. sort of like Fail platoons in Wot, e.g. T1 Cunningham grouped up with a T-57 Heavy.
Now I like the fact that WT and WOT/WoWPs are around. They are drawing in many people to the Aircombat genre who may never have tried it before. It has a gentle learning curve and simple controls. As people try the Non-arcade style WT games, they start running into queues waiting for battles. Some realistic wait times can be 10 mins or more. I can take-off and find a battle in AH quicker than this most times. When the new engine and graphics are updated (including Hit sprites, Fire and Oil hits), AH needs to appeal to these players who are after something more. Let them know that waiting for 15mins is silly when they could take off right away and get into a high quality simulator air battle in <5 mins that will last until your dead or out of ammo. And if you do die, the battle is still there waiting with more targets!
For a first time player trying AH, they have a steep learning curve just to be able to fly around and land. There are no Video or in game tutorials to show how to Take-off, Land, Shoot, Drop bombs, adjust radio Channels, operate the chat box (it has functions most dont know about) and understand the Map. On top of this, many of AHs UI interfaces are not user friendly. They do provide the functionality, but I would love to see some streamlining and visuals. I hope that these can be addressed early in the new graphics update. A good Ad and high quality graphics may get people in, but to get them addicted you need to ease them into the game.
In short, WT and World of Tanks/War Planes have been a good thing for this genre.
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To late.... been playing Iracing for years.
Cavalry
Road or Oval side?
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I beg to differ. See Eve Online... it's almost as open world as you can get, but it's vastly popular.
Sorry, I wasn't quite specific enough in that message. It's the combination of open world, full PvP everywhere, realtime or 'twitch' style combat, MMO. There is no game that is all four of those things that is widely popular.
It's other factors that contributed to the decline in player numbers.
I'm sure it's not the single factor, but I believe it's most of it.
As to WT... I always feel a bit uneasy if a different, but somewhat likewise game is being mocked on a forum. Even more so when it comes from player who didn't even play it. There's a lot of shallow snobism to be found in such threads.
Can't disagree with that, I don't consider WT to be all that similar to AH though. I think people see a lot more similarity than there is when it comes to gameplay, and the differences are what makes it popular moreso than the similarities. If it was spaceships instead of WWII aircraft, I don't think the popularity would be changed significantly.
Wiley.
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As to WT... I always feel a bit uneasy if a different, but somewhat likewise game is being mocked on a forum. Even more so when it comes from player who didn't even play it. There's a lot of shallow snobism to be found in such threads.
I believe that I am guilty of negative comments against most F2P games and I have written that my own WT experience in the arenas was too alien to warm up to. That does not mean that I think the whole effort is balls. Lusche is correct. We should not continue to sink into 'shouting at the devil'. It's beneath us. To that end, I confess that I have spent some secret flying hours 'researching' aircraft in WT 'offline'. It is pretty cool visually.
If history repeats itself, AH will die away and the mockers will move to WT as happened with WB. I hope that wont happen.
I agree that could happen, but like MrRiplEy's hope, I believe that AH3 will herald a new beginning for the franchise.
Our communal attitudes are overdue for a change if that is to happen. That's not a verse from Barny's 'Happy Song'. That's a reality. We sometimes treat each other pretty poorly. If I'm a new player (with choices) I would view Aces High with suspicion if I only read the boards or turned on 200. There is a gulf of difference between camaraderie and sarcastic toxic waste.
I believe a new pilot would prefer to be more anonymous in a community with bigger numbers. Remember that a new player who wants to be competitive in Aces High, currently has little choice but to seek answers on this board. We can think what we please, but we need to be more deliberate about what we say or write. That's a 'real man' kind of thing.
Last point. Air Warrior, War Birds, and Fighter Ace are titles that have come and gone. Comparisons between those titles and Aces High are counter productive if not just a complete waste of time. Each one of those games represents an iconic milestone in the history of on-line air combat. They were great - but they are dead. War Thunder needs to be more objectively examined, if the previous posts here have credibility, for the things they are doing right and that are worth emulating - or bettering. That is the best hope, in my opinion, for AH3.
With respect,
:salute
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Yes, but you can have a AMX-40 run into a KV-1S, no?
That happens even if you pay. I have no idea about what you explain about WT, it was the first time (and last time) I tried to play it, I took the only plane I could get and went full realism. Flew around practically blind for 10 minutes and got bounced by a La-5 that seemed like a veteran player according to stats. So I didn't have any 'higher' planes anywhere it was the first time I logged in. First I had to wait like 15 minutes to even get a slot on a server, then 10 more minutes flying blind (no dar, horrible view system thats suitable only for trackir/vr etc) and getting bounced by a plane that you couldn't fight against even if you saw him. Doesn't look good to me.
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Most of you are too gentlemanly to think of this, but you could find "ace" War Thunder pilots on Twitch. Then tell them every ACM mistake they make, and when they protest, challenge them to a duel in Aces High. That might get some converts. Or at least attention to this game.
I cannot face palm any harder... :bhead
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All I know is that I got blasted by a La-5 while flying a WWI biplane. That doesn't happen in WoT.
This is a combination of matchmaker limits and War Thunder's typical Russian bias. But, if you play Aces High don't pretend you took off in some 40 ENY plane and never got shot down by an La-7 in the MA.
The key thing to keep in mind is that War Thunder matches based on their battle rating system, so you have to set your lineup to a relatively evenly matched number
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This is a combination of matchmaker limits and War Thunder's typical Russian bias. But, if you play Aces High don't pretend you took off in some 40 ENY plane and never got shot down by an La-7 in the MA.
The key thing to keep in mind is that War Thunder matches based on their battle rating system, so you have to set your lineup to a relatively evenly matched number
The difference is that I can choose to take a LA-7 if I want to, not forced to. The huge mismatch of planes combined to the lack of dar/icons and even a proper view system just put me off instantly. I do not have time to start building 'experience' fighting impossible odds. Of course I could choose to pay for it, but then I'd have to invest to trackir or vr because the view system just doesn't work with a hat switch.
But the biggest thing that put me off was the horrible matchmaking wait times in the lobby. No sir-ee.
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It depends on what mode you are in queue for. Arcade Battles (AB) is by far the most popular and typically won't have much if any wait time at all. All planes are marked with nametags in this mode.
With regard to matchmaking, players are put together based on the battle ratings of their planes, which are arbitrary numbers assigned by Gaijin, kinda like ENY in Aces High. If you were exclusively using the starter reserve planes, you shouldn't have even seen an La-5 (lowest one is battle rating 3.7) as there is too much of a gap in the battle rating even for the earliest model La-5, though you might have seen a Lagg3, unless the matchmaker bugged out somehow and put that guy in with you. You also have to take care that you aren't flying one of the low tiered planes with a high battle rating, the I-153 chaika for example had it's battle rating pushed up all the way to 2.7 (due to being so successful seal clubbing the low tiers) which would put it in range of an La-5. There's also a tier restriction of a two tier gap, so if you queue exclusively tier 1 planes you should never see anything over tier 2. Even then, it's hardly hopeless, particularly at the lower tiers many of the lower tier 1 planes are quite capable of bringing down that early model La-5, as most can easily outturn it, just don't try to outrun it.
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It depends on what mode you are in queue for. Arcade Battles (AB) is by far the most popular and typically won't have much if any wait time at all. All planes are marked with nametags in this mode.
With regard to matchmaking, players are put together based on the battle ratings of their planes, which are arbitrary numbers assigned by Gaijin, kinda like ENY in Aces High. If you were exclusively using the starter reserve planes, you shouldn't have even seen an La-5 (lowest one is battle rating 3.7) as there is too much of a gap in the battle rating even for the earliest model La-5, though you might have seen a Lagg3, unless the matchmaker bugged out somehow and put that guy in with you. You also have to take care that you aren't flying one of the low tiered planes with a high battle rating, the I-153 chaika for example had it's battle rating pushed up all the way to 2.7 (due to being so successful seal clubbing the low tiers) which would put it in range of an La-5. There's also a tier restriction of a two tier gap, so if you queue exclusively tier 1 planes you should never see anything over tier 2. Even then, it's hardly hopeless, particularly at the lower tiers many of the lower tier 1 planes are quite capable of bringing down that early model La-5, as most can easily outturn it, just don't try to outrun it.
Dunno. The experience totally sucked for me. Much waiting for nothing. The fancy graphics won't pull me in if the gameplay is horrible and you have to wait several minutes to respawn. The arcade arenas are utter crap, tried them too.
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HPriller, do you play aces high?
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All in all, the War Thunder gaming experience wasn't that great. I still have it loaded, though. The only thing that had any wow factor was the graphics. Aces High has its weaknesses too, but it's better gaming than WT will ever be.
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All in all, the War Thunder gaming experience wasn't that great. I still have it loaded, though. The only thing that had any wow factor was the graphics. Aces High has its weaknesses too, but it's better gaming than WT will ever be.
Of course. As I mentioned earlier, Aces High has that Strategic depth that WT can never really match. Aces High has so much more for you to be able to do as well, and a HUGE benefit of being able to do it whenever you feel. In WT, you are pretty limited. I only have ships, guns, pillboxes, "bombing points", bases and tanks to hit in WT with my bombers. In Aces High I have; Towns, Hangers, Guns, Ords, Troops, Dar, Ships and tanks. I also have an Ords Factory, Dar Factory, Troop Factory, Industrial Center's (City's), Fuel Refinery, AAA Factory and an HQ. A LOT more choices for me. :aok The maps in WT are only a few sectors where as Aces High has HUGE maps, with multiple sectors. I can take a nice and long, round about way to my target. In WT, I can only go to a certain point.
WT does have it's benefits, that being graphic's, A/C that we just do not have yet, A/C that we'd never see (I do like my G5N after all. :D), a Korean Era plane set and is good for a quick jaunt in fighting if you just don't have the time in Aces High. The most I ever wait for a RB match is 5 minutes. Sure, there has been a couple of times where I waited 6-7 minutes, but I have yet to wait any longer. Takes a bit longer in Aces High to get to my target alt (which hovers between 17.5-20k), and that's not even getting to enemy territory.
It does urk me a little that some folks (I'm guilty of doing it myself, and no, my boot doesn't taste good. :() of ragging a game they have no time in. Not to mention that they don't seem to realize that they are different games, period. Similar genre, but play quite differently from each other. I don't think it looks good for AH when folks create threads about WT, ragging it completely with no mentions of the good sides it DOES have. A basic comparison between the took makes it look better for us.
That being said, I really do enjoy both games. Each have their merits that appeal to me and both work nicely for me. Aces High has a lot more potential, especially if they bring in a far more detailed battle damage system, instead of the current all or nothing one. Also, folks, CHILL! :lol Everyone seems antsy, and I'd think AH was never going to get any kind of update anymore. They ARE working to better Aces High folks! If HTC didn't care, I don't think we'd have AH right now. :) I mean, I'm seeing names I haven't seen a in a long time, reappearing with the new shots of the upcoming MAJOR update. :D
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HPriller, do you play aces high?
I did for many years on many different accounts. All told I easily spent more on Aces High than I did on War Thunder. But it came to a point of logging in 1-3 times a month to an MA with so few people it would take over a half hour just to find a fight. In the end it wasn't worth the constant $15 a month to my wallet. There are so much more quality gaming to be had these days on the cheap or even free. I haven't spent money on War Thunder in months but I still play it daily and have a blast. As I previously stated, I like both games they are both different and good in my book. But Aces High just doesn't have the value anymore for the cost with all the other gaming options I have at a lower cost or free.
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HPriller, the 15$ per month in AH is not value - it is a filter. And it works pretty well.
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HPriller, the 15$ per month in AH is not value - it is a filter. And it works pretty well.
Wouldn't 100$ per month be an even better filter then? :old: Not that I really know what it's supposed to filter out other than poor people. Or maybe you just like the idea of constantly shrinking player base... a romantic fondness for doom and decay maybe... :noid
:bolt:
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Aces High won't take off again because it's full of people who still like deftones and think Kanye West is bad
Who the heck is Kanye West??? :headscratch:
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Who the heck is Kanye West??? :headscratch:
And what is a 'deftone'?
(Yes, I know I could google this, thank you ;))
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This is a combination of matchmaker limits and War Thunder's typical Russian bias. But, if you play Aces High don't pretend you took off in some 40 ENY plane and never got shot down by an La-7 in the MA.
The key thing to keep in mind is that War Thunder matches based on their battle rating system, so you have to set your lineup to a relatively evenly matched number
Well, WT uses a system of provoking you to buy higher tier planes/vehicles to survive longer in the fight/ actually fight. They give you crappy WWI planes vs WWII-Korean-Vietnam era planes.
While you could spend maybe 50$ and have your favorite plane(s)/vehicle(s) and never have to pay a monthly subscription.
In Aces High you get all the planes up front for the free trial + can use them whenever you want (however this is a bad thing for those who only fly a few set planes), yet you pay 15$ a month.
Not to mention no waiting periods for matches or limited lives. Nor the nuisance of having to pay for repairing your plane/"buying" a plane.
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Well, WT uses a system of provoking you to buy higher tier planes/vehicles to survive longer in the fight/ actually fight. They give you crappy WWI planes vs WWII-Korean-Vietnam era planes.
While you could spend maybe 50$ and have your favorite plane(s)/vehicle(s) and never have to pay a monthly subscription.
In Aces High you get all the planes up front for the free trial + can use them whenever you want (however this is a bad thing for those who only fly a few set planes), yet you pay 15$ a month.
Not to mention no waiting periods for matches or limited lives. Nor the nuisance of having to pay for repairing your plane/"buying" a plane.
They gotta make their money somehow, but WWI vs. Korea/Vietnam is a gross exaggeration. The planeset encompasses a roughly 20 year range from the early 1930's to the hard cutoff at 1953. At lower tiers it doesn't take very long at all to unlock the planes and their upgrades. The matchmaker also keeps things reasonably tight thru their battle rating system. There's really a lot of fun to be had in the lower tiers without having to pay a dime.
As for waiting times, this is War Thunder's biggest advantage by far. For arcade battles the matchmaker will typically find a match in seconds, it's air start with teams only a few miles apart. Sure you can put your plane on the runway almost instantly in Aces High. But first you have to look over the map and try to find a fight to begin with. Then you have to find the closest airfield (that isn't vulched out) and then take off, climb to altitude/speed and fly out to the fight sometimes 30+ miles away from the closest airfield. In the time it takes you to do that the fight could already be over. And you could end up cruising around the enemy base just waiting for someone to challenge you before you run out of fuel. When it comes to getting fast action War Thunder beats Aces High's snails pace by a wide margin.
As far as buying/repairing planes, unless you are terribad at the game you're almost always going to make more than enough silver lions in a match to cover your repair costs and put most towards whatever new plane you intend to get. Not all planes are always available in Aces High either, anything with a perk cost has to be earned too and you only earn it for one flyout unless you successfully land it back for your rebate. So, for example, if you had your heart set on flying C-Hogs, tempests, 262s or whatever perk plane it's significantly more limited use than in War Thunder where you unlock the plane once and it's permanently available for you.
The main idea here is that there is a significant advantage to the free2play model. A much larger playerbase for starters. You can pay as much or as little as you want and yet still be able to play the game. It's far from perfect but the difference has left me still playing War Thunder without having spent anything on it in several months and still retaining all the things I've unlocked. With Aces High, the last few times I had an active subscription, I got so little playtime and action out of it, due to the abysmal online numbers at the times I had available to play it, that I didn't feel like I got my money's worth. Any friends I tried to bring into Aces High to play with didn't want anything to do with it and barely lasted a day or two of their free trials. They laughed at the relatively poor graphics and were frustrated by the extremely steep learning curve for new players and the relatively huge of amounts of time that have to be spent finding and flying out to a battle. The other issue here is stagnation, in the past several years very little at all has changed in Aces High. For a subscription based system, there typically is an expectation of a constant stream of new content/updates. Aces High hasn't really lived up to this as of late. I honestly think the subscription has become a dated concept in online gaming and Aces High has suffered retaining it. For the game to have a brighter future, personally, I think a free2play model should be considered at the very least.
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[...]War Thunder beats Aces High's snails pace [...]
I think you are overrating my influence on AH :old:
:D
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As for waiting times, this is War Thunder's biggest advantage by far...
As far as buying/repairing planes...
I honestly think the subscription has become a dated concept in online gaming and Aces High has suffered retaining it. For the game to have a brighter future, personally, I think a free2play model should be considered at the very least.
All points here are personal:
I am an impatient person. I have seen the tick-tock-dum-de-dum of War Thunder waits first hand. I guess the 'look for a fight' time one experiences in Aces High could also be called 'develop a strategy based on what the map is giving you' time. It's still pretty dynamic but you can develop a plan (even if it's wrong as in my case).
The equipment acquisition path, crew development, and demand for repair in War Thunder seems fussy to me. About as cerebral as I want to get is the mission-oriented "pick and choose" I am presented with just before launch (if I want it) in Aces High.
Your last quoted point about F2P has me thinking. On one hand I think it's cynical. On the other hand there's evidently millions of people signed up for it. The assumption is that everybody who plays something on-line wants win in some fashion and be recognized for it. It follows that Gaijin won't charge for a 'taste' of the product. However, if you want to be truly competitive (and successful) you need to pay incrementally or all at once.
Ultimately you are correct - subscription services a dying notion. The business side of the 'free' internet makes WT possible. With numbers like they are touting, they are irresistible to companies who would like a taste of marketing to those kinds of numbers. Because of that, War Thunder has me unsettled.
I'm an older citizen of the US and thus culturally ingrained with the notion that if something looks too good to be true, it probably is (too good to be true). When I see somebody 'giving' something away, my radar flips on. I ask, what's in it for them? And I ask what's it really going to cost?
Those coming behind me, (my own kids are an example) don't seem to care about living their lives in a marketing fish bowl. It doesn't seem to bother them that local funeral directors likely have purchased a demographic report, thus know who they are and when they are likely to meet their demise - and a good idea of when to start trying to sell them plots in a graveyard. I guess that's about as cynical as it gets.
I tried to play War Thunder again today. I want to be fair about it. It just seems like an airborne version of an FPS and I can't get past that. I went back and watched one of VuduVince's video's of a tasty 1v1 in WT. I have never seen a fight like that myself. War Thunder has it's virtues, however. I'm hoping HTC will match and improve on those in AH3.
:salute
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In the end they really are two very different games. It's just one has hundreds of thousands of active accounts, and the other... :bolt:
But as far as Pay2win is concerned, there are varying levels of this. All of these Free2Play games have some form of in game currency that you unlock the content with. The better ones make only aesthetic stuff (stuff that doesn't affect gameplay, such as cosmetic skins and such) accessable through premium paid currencies, while the rest of the content can be had with the gameplay earned currencies. War Thunder mostly follows that tune though they are pretty greedy with how slowly you are doled out the gameplay earned currency. When I first started playing it really wasn't too bad, but when they made the major overhaul of the system for the console release, they got significantly more greedy about how they let you unlock planes and such. It does happen at a pretty slow rate, significantly slower than before. They also used to have a constant stream of holiday or history related bonuses that were really cool that helped in this regard, and most of these have been discontinued. Fortunately for me, I had made a lot of progress in the game before then, and since then even under the new system I've managed to still unlock many of the higher tier planes and their upgrades without having to resort to opening my wallet.
One other thing about War Thunder that raises an eyebrow is the fact that friendly fire is modeled 100% with teamkilling. I always thought Aces High handled this much better with killshooter. In War Thunder even with the penalty system they have for friendly fire, teamkilling is *very* easy to abuse for griefing. I find myself quite often partaking in this abuse just because I find it hilarious, particularly with how easy it lights the rage fuse for some people. For some people this might be a deal breaker of a game flaw, though to me it's quite entertaining, in the end it's probably bad for the game.
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And what is a 'deftone'?
(Yes, I know I could google this, thank you ;))
check them out. Looking at your music list, You might like them.
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Actually, comparing War Thunder to Aces High is really a moot point simply because War Thunder has Arcade, Realistic, and Simulator skill level modes, where Aces High has only a single skill level mode.
What we are actually talking here is the difference between Free to Play (F2P) versus a monthly subscription of $15.00 USD, or, simply, $0.50 per day. Quite frankly I don't know of a single teenager in my neighborhood who doesn't spent more than fifty cents per day on his/her sugared and caffeinated "energy" drink, not to mention the single "latte" consumed daily by adults! The Free to Play (F2P) crowd can crow all they wish about their favorite game being "free-of-charge", but that just isn't the truth. Only a miniscule of a percentage of worldwide F2P players never spend any money upgrading their weapon of choice.
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They gotta make their money somehow, but WWI vs. Korea/Vietnam is a gross exaggeration. The planeset encompasses a roughly 20 year range from the early 1930's to the hard cutoff at 1953. At lower tiers it doesn't take very long at all to unlock the planes and their upgrades. The matchmaker also keeps things reasonably tight thru their battle rating system. There's really a lot of fun to be had in the lower tiers without having to pay a dime.
As for waiting times, this is War Thunder's biggest advantage by far. For arcade battles the matchmaker will typically find a match in seconds, it's air start with teams only a few miles apart. Sure you can put your plane on the runway almost instantly in Aces High. But first you have to look over the map and try to find a fight to begin with. Then you have to find the closest airfield (that isn't vulched out) and then take off, climb to altitude/speed and fly out to the fight sometimes 30+ miles away from the closest airfield. In the time it takes you to do that the fight could already be over. And you could end up cruising around the enemy base just waiting for someone to challenge you before you run out of fuel. When it comes to getting fast action War Thunder beats Aces High's snails pace by a wide margin.
As far as buying/repairing planes, unless you are terribad at the game you're almost always going to make more than enough silver lions in a match to cover your repair costs and put most towards whatever new plane you intend to get. Not all planes are always available in Aces High either, anything with a perk cost has to be earned too and you only earn it for one flyout unless you successfully land it back for your rebate. So, for example, if you had your heart set on flying C-Hogs, tempests, 262s or whatever perk plane it's significantly more limited use than in War Thunder where you unlock the plane once and it's permanently available for you.
The main idea here is that there is a significant advantage to the free2play model. A much larger playerbase for starters. You can pay as much or as little as you want and yet still be able to play the game. It's far from perfect but the difference has left me still playing War Thunder without having spent anything on it in several months and still retaining all the things I've unlocked. With Aces High, the last few times I had an active subscription, I got so little playtime and action out of it, due to the abysmal online numbers at the times I had available to play it, that I didn't feel like I got my money's worth. Any friends I tried to bring into Aces High to play with didn't want anything to do with it and barely lasted a day or two of their free trials. They laughed at the relatively poor graphics and were frustrated by the extremely steep learning curve for new players and the relatively huge of amounts of time that have to be spent finding and flying out to a battle. The other issue here is stagnation, in the past several years very little at all has changed in Aces High. For a subscription based system, there typically is an expectation of a constant stream of new content/updates. Aces High hasn't really lived up to this as of late. I honestly think the subscription has become a dated concept in online gaming and Aces High has suffered retaining it. For the game to have a brighter future, personally, I think a free2play model should be considered at the very least.
Another member of the "Instant Gratification" crowd. :devil
I enjoy AH because of it being closer to what the WWII flyboys had to deal with. Every sortie was NOT an ace making endeavor. The other aspect is the strategic battle against your opponent, while I have only been on WT a couple of times, they have nothing to compare to AH in that area. Besides AH cost $180 a year, we all spend then much on toilet paper ( amongst other things), F2P? Nothing is free, you either pay up front or you pay on the back side. :airplane:
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Are you guys still going on about War Thunder?
That's soooo last year.
Here's your new game to practice your self-delusions over:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnWtLwJmWI
http://youtu.be/q3jH7NcZf7c
(Watch it in HD, obviously.)
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Are you guys still going on about War Thunder?
That's soooo last year.
Here's your new game to practice your self-delusions over:
http://youtu.be/q3jH7NcZf7c
(Watch it in HD, obviously.)
Uh like how? The video is available only in 360p.
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Uh like how? The video is available only in 360p.
Both go up to 1080p.
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If Aces High ever changed their pricing model similar to War Thunder, they would bet setting up a class system of gameplay. Those who can afford to spend the money to upgrade quickly can and always will be ahead of the curve. Those who cannot afford the constant death-of-a-thousand-cuts payments, will be constantly behind the curve of those with money.
And unfortunately, when it comes to a 'level playing field' - there isn't one with WT is there? I mean, you could earn your own way through with the free stuff - just like a lot of games with Apple - micro transactions. $1 for a chest of 10 diamonds. 5 diamonds per upgrade.
If I have say, $200 disposable income a month to spend on the game, that's a whole lot of upgrades. If I have say $15 a month, then it's not really a level playing field is it? 8 million subscribers -
Does this kind of system reminds you of the old CompuServe days where you paid $$$ for your connection time? I remember paying a lot of money to get connected to Air Warrior that way (or was it Warbirds). The more money you had, the more time in the air, the better the pilot.
Here at AH - $15 a month. Everyone is the same. I like that better. And perk points are earned - not purchased. But with all games, I'm open to a better experience if it'll cost $5 -10 more a month...
Just saying...
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Just watch the first minute of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDW2X2cgLno
I promise, regardless of what game you are loyal to, you will be impressed by the effects.
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Just watch the first minute of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDW2X2cgLno
I promise, regardless of what game you are loyal to, you will be impressed by the effects.
:aok - yep IL2 is definitely a gold standard for single player WWII sims. :)
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Who the heck is Kanye West??? :headscratch:
He was a bloke who used to work at the local ferritt grooming clinic :old:
Battle of Stalingrad looks good lets see, ROF is good but multiplayer is a bit dull :old:
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Both go up to 1080p.
Weird last time I opened it, it was only 360p now it shows all the way up to 1080p.
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Just watch the first minute of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDW2X2cgLno
I promise, regardless of what game you are loyal to, you will be impressed by the effects.
Effects are great. Playability in all IL2 series is horrible. Hated every time I tried it. Scripted crap is scripted crap. And MMOG it is not. Anyone who looks for AH type action is going to be sorely disappointed in both WT and IL2.
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IL-2: Battle of Stalingrad is a new game, still in production. It's not made by the same people that did the earlier Il-2/FB/1946 series. It's made by the guys who did Rise of Flight. Even so, the earlier Il2 games were excellent, despite their issues.
I can last 5 minutes of previous IL2 series before I rage quit. Scripted action, scripted radio messaging, captioning etc. just break my nerves. And the online part is like going to play the old AH h2h only with clumsier lobby system.
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The videos are terrific, Tunnelrat. They are well thought out and well crafted.
I have a soft spot for IL2 since it was a cap stone for 20-years of digital flight combat innovation from many studios. Heck, now that I have a decent GPU, Cliffs of Dover is a lot more interesting.
I think the point of this thread is more about addressing whys and wherefores of War Thunder, since War Thunder is generally believed to be the destination for players lost to Aces High. War Thunder comes off as the Boogie Man for a number of people. If we are honest however, the air war simulator public is historically a fickle bunch. We are known for jumping from one shiny distraction to the next over time. That's a good thing, though, because it helps create and sustain a market and provides an incentive and laboratory for developers to continuously innovate.
The Aces High community is trimming down to a core of people who are basically loyal to HTC and respect the company for its long run in a volatile business space. Ultimately, HTC will meet the challenge of innovation and, in my opinion, address the changing player demographic. That might not please all of us. That's just the way of things. But Aces High has my trust. They've earned that by keeping their overheads low and the productivity of their small workforce high.
Thanks again for sharing the videos.
:salute
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The videos are terrific, Tunnelrat. They are well thought out and well crafted.
I have a soft spot for IL2 since it was a cap stone for 20-years of digital flight combat innovation from many studios. Heck, now that I have a decent GPU, Cliffs of Dover is a lot more interesting.
I think the point of this thread is more about addressing whys and wherefores of War Thunder, since War Thunder is generally believed to be the destination for players lost to Aces High. War Thunder comes off as the Boogie Man for a number of people. If we are honest however, the air war simulator public is historically a fickle bunch. We are known for jumping from one shiny distraction to the next over time. That's a good thing, though, because it helps create and sustain a market and provides an incentive and laboratory for developers to continuously innovate.
The Aces High community is trimming down to a core of people who are basically loyal to HTC and respect the company for its long run in a volatile business space. Ultimately, HTC will meet the challenge of innovation and, in my opinion, address the changing player demographic. That might not please all of us. That's just the way of things. But Aces High has my trust. They've earned that by keeping their overheads low and the productivity of their small workforce high.
Thanks again for sharing the videos.
:salute
I have a really hard time believing AH would lose existing customers to WT. It looks fancy but the 20 minute lobby wait alone for full realism battle makes it a serious no go. What WT does however is steal new customers who see only the fancy graphics and never learn about the quality of gameplay AH has.
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Mr Ripley. I agree with you.
Free to play is the ultimate lie. That's been expressed in this thread. Marketing of this color flirts with dishonesty and hucksterism, but history tells us that it has been ever thus. War Thunder is just the latest and most visible example from our perspective as combat sim enthusiasts.
You are correct about War Thunder's target demographic. The new player. They not only anticipate a high turnover in customer base...they count on it. I read somewhere most companies have abandoned marketing brand loyalty and trust to the existing customer base. Keeping an existing customer is expensive in terms of overheads. Getting a new one is cheaper overall so a lot of companies just glitz up their advertising to the very edge of being 'false'. That is friendlier to the annual balance sheet.
Gaijin doesn't care about turnover. They understand Angry Birds, Clash of Clans, Candy Crush and the millions that play those (seemingly mindless) games. While those titles might be an affront to some intellects - if they can get a couple of million people to pay $10 a year out of impatience for gimmicks, then they're still doing pretty well.
:salute
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The videos are terrific, Tunnelrat. They are well thought out and well crafted.
I have a soft spot for IL2 since it was a cap stone for 20-years of digital flight combat innovation from many studios. Heck, now that I have a decent GPU, Cliffs of Dover is a lot more interesting.
Not even 15 years yet, dude. Il-2 was 2001.
And it's kind of easy to be the "cap stone" when you're more or less the only one out there. Aside from a brief blip in the late-90s when European Air War (whose campaign was by FAR superior to Il-2's. In fact it may have had the best campaign mode since Aces of the Pacific), Jane's WWII Fighters (in its disappointingly arcadey glory) and Microsoft's CFS series were all coming out, WWII sims have been few and far between.
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The best way to play AH would be with a simpit that had full range of motion force feedback controls, some distillation of realistic engine controls, a flap handle and a spherical rear projection dome. The best way to play War Thunder is in third person mode with a mouse. They aren't really competitors in a strict sense they just happen to have a similar starting point,(ww2 aviation.)
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I can last 5 minutes of previous IL2 series before I rage quit. Scripted action, scripted radio messaging, captioning etc. just break my nerves. And the online part is like going to play the old AH h2h only with clumsier lobby system.
You seem like a very unbalanced person. ;)
There are several excellent third party campaigns available for Il-2. Case Blue and Case Yellow were excellent scripted campaigns, and then there's the very excellent DCG dynamic campaign generator.
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I can last 5 minutes of previous IL2 series before I rage quit. Scripted action, scripted radio messaging, captioning etc. just break my nerves. And the online part is like going to play the old AH h2h only with clumsier lobby system.
I've had CLoD for a year now, according to steam I've only played it 3 hours. Even if I didn't want to play Aces High at that moment, after playing clod for 5 minutes I would have the urge to close IL2 and log in to AH. Kind of like the effect of watching a dogfight movie has on me.
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Not even 15 years yet, dude. Il-2 was 2001.
My reference goes back to the subLOGIC studio and the wire frame WWI combat software that accompanied "Flight Simulator". There might not be anybody here that remembers that. I played it on a Compaq Portable Computer (32-pounds worth of 'luggable'). That was around 1981 or 82, I think.
From Wikipedia:
Microsoft Flight Simulator began as a set of articles on computer graphics, written by Bruce Artwick throughout 1976, about flight simulation using 3-D graphics. When the editor of the magazine told Artwick that subscribers were interested in purchasing such a program, Artwick founded subLOGIC Corporation to commercialize his ideas.
I agree that it doesn't seem like so many years have passed.
:salute
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Yes, I do remember that.
At any rate, I'd much rather play Aces of the Pacific, 1942: Pacific Air War, or European Air War than Il-2.
Don't care if they're visually and even technically dated. AotP's features are STILL among the best of any sim I've played (five branches of service to fly; full scope of American involvement from Wake Island through the end of the war, and that's not even getting into the WWII: 1946 expansion; campaign, single-mission, historical mission, and ace duel modes; earning decorations for actions in combat). The strategy mode of PAW Gold was a LOT of fun, which really helped make up to an extent for the limited campaign (which was comprised entirely of missions you could also fly singly). And then EAW and its dynamic campaign (bonus for the PTO Total Conversion).
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Yup. I played all of those titles and enjoyed them completely. However...I looked with longing at AW and WB during those years. I simply couldn't afford them while I was restoring a basket case in the garage. I always wondered what it would be like to fight another human in a game while using tactics developed in the real engagements during the real conflict.
To cut to the chase, that didn't happen for me until Aces High.
I like IL2. I was disappointed with COD because my hardware expectations were not properly set beforehand. Three years on and I've just gotten a GPU that would run it and I still have the feeling that it was never properly finished.
But...we are talking about War Thunder in this thread. They have a huge customer base. We need a larger customer base to bring the quality of play back to the AH arenas. HTC needs new customers. HTC has some tough choices to make with regard to their business approach. Change can be good or bad, but regardless change is inevitable. Like Christmas or death and taxes, a lot will depend on your personal perspective. So I guess I'm done talking about War Thunder. I wish them well, but I will not be a paying customer. Ever.
:salute
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Much as I hate to say it, I think the only way to draw big(ger) numbers to AH is going to be as follows:
1. Come out with a MouseJoy option that makes it playable for people who not only don't have joysticks, but wouldn't know what to do with them if they did. (Not Arcade WT, but "Realistic" <--- I use the term loosely)
Basically this means taking combat trim to the next level for mouse users... Honestly, with how Aces models gun dispersion, I think this could be MORE successful an implementation than WT (In WT, MouseJoy lets you throw 37mm rounds like laser beams). People WILL squeak, however, when the 5-10% of skilled players using mice start beating them. That's inevitable.
2. Come out with some sort of F2P option for AH. Limited Plane Set? Other limits? I dunno. But having tons of planes in the air flying for free is going to draw the people who will pay, if it's done right.
You aren't going to skim off the tiny sim groups in games like IL2 (CLoD or BoS), WT Sim-mode players, etc, simply because they aren't going to get past the graphics/interface to give Aces High a chance... Even if you could perfectly showcase the beauty of the big arena, or how kickass FSO is, the pond of players equipped to jump right in and fly a game like Aces just isn't that deep anymore.
Bottom line is, in order for Aces to grow again, things are going to have to change... and when your current apple cart's contents are 80% fragile snowflakes that melt-down over minor things... well, I don't envy the team that has to sit down around that table and make those decisions hahaha
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Much as I hate to say it, I think the only way to draw big(ger) numbers to AH is going to be as follows:
1. Come out with a MouseJoy option that makes it playable for people who not only don't have joysticks, but wouldn't know what to do with them if they did. (Not Arcade WT, but "Realistic" <--- I use the term loosely)
Basically this means taking combat trim to the next level for mouse users... Honestly, with how Aces models gun dispersion, I think this could be MORE successful an implementation than WT (In WT, MouseJoy lets you throw 37mm rounds like laser beams). People WILL squeak, however, when the 5-10% of skilled players using mice start beating them. That's inevitable.
2. Come out with some sort of F2P option for AH. Limited Plane Set? Other limits? I dunno. But having tons of planes in the air flying for free is going to draw the people who will pay, if it's done right.
You aren't going to skim off the tiny sim groups in games like IL2 (CLoD or BoS), WT Sim-mode players, etc, simply because they aren't going to get past the graphics/interface to give Aces High a chance... Even if you could perfectly showcase the beauty of the big arena, or how kickass FSO is, the pond of players equipped to jump right in and fly a game like Aces just isn't that deep anymore.
Bottom line is, in order for Aces to grow again, things are going to have to change... and when your current apple cart's contents are 80% fragile snowflakes that melt-down over minor things... well, I don't envy the team that has to sit down around that table and make those decisions hahaha
#1 I think it is flyable for those with mouses, flyman uses a mouse and is very good with it. :devil
#2 I agree, I think if there is a Free-to-Play option, that only 40 ENY (maybe some 35 eny) planes should be allowed. With some of the 30ENY being perked for the FTP'ers to use their perks on. Same system for bombers and GVs too.
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Much as I hate to say it, I think the only way to draw big(ger) numbers to AH is going to be as follows:
1. Come out with a MouseJoy option that makes it playable for people who not only don't have joysticks, but wouldn't know what to do with them if they did. (Not Arcade WT, but "Realistic" <--- I use the term loosely)
Basically this means taking combat trim to the next level for mouse users... Honestly, with how Aces models gun dispersion, I think this could be MORE successful an implementation than WT (In WT, MouseJoy lets you throw 37mm rounds like laser beams). People WILL squeak, however, when the 5-10% of skilled players using mice start beating them. That's inevitable.
Basically you're saying give the mouse players the ability to point the mouse where they want the nose of the plane to go, and the software figures out how to put the plane there with the controls if it's possible? Must say I think that's a terrible idea. Great if that's the only way to play, but in a game where controlling your aircraft is 3/4 of the gameplay, taking that out and making people instantly perfect at maneuvering wouldn't be good. I think you're underestimating the 5-10% number on people that would be able to use that to whup on people without that advantage.
2. Come out with some sort of F2P option for AH. Limited Plane Set? Other limits? I dunno. But having tons of planes in the air flying for free is going to draw the people who will pay, if it's done right.
You aren't going to skim off the tiny sim groups in games like IL2 (CLoD or BoS), WT Sim-mode players, etc, simply because they aren't going to get past the graphics/interface to give Aces High a chance... Even if you could perfectly showcase the beauty of the big arena, or how kickass FSO is, the pond of players equipped to jump right in and fly a game like Aces just isn't that deep anymore.
Bottom line is, in order for Aces to grow again, things are going to have to change... and when your current apple cart's contents are 80% fragile snowflakes that melt-down over minor things... well, I don't envy the team that has to sit down around that table and make those decisions hahaha
I could live with some kind of F2P people running around although I'd question how much gameplay they would add flying fighter hordes in their 40 ENY birds.
Wiley.
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#2 I agree, I think if there is a Free-to-Play option, that only 40 ENY (maybe some 35 eny) planes should be allowed. With some of the 30ENY being perked for the FTP'ers to use their perks on. Same system for bombers and GVs too.
Buying Power is one of the worst ways to make a Micro-transaction payment system. If you limit players to 40-30 eny AC, they will feel forced into paying to "even the playing field". Some will, but many will say no thanks and move on and make sure others don't bother to even look.
You need to give them a small selection of the best planes, i.e, 190A5, Typhoon, B-24 and a few others. In that list of F2P Aircraft, no Hero planes would be allowed. eg. P-51, F4U, Spit, 109 etc. These AC are what people will signup for. All other AC will be locked behind the paywall/Sub system, but they will have Achievements and a MUCH higher perk gain associated to Subbed members. The top Perk AC (Think jets) would be open to the F2Pers, but with the very slow grind for perks (maybe 1/20 normal earning).
Skins would need to be locked behind the paywall too.
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Yes, I do remember that.
At any rate, I'd much rather play Aces of the Pacific, 1942: Pacific Air War, or European Air War than Il-2.
Don't care if they're visually and even technically dated. AotP's features are STILL among the best of any sim I've played (five branches of service to fly; full scope of American involvement from Wake Island through the end of the war, and that's not even getting into the WWII: 1946 expansion; campaign, single-mission, historical mission, and ace duel modes; earning decorations for actions in combat). The strategy mode of PAW Gold was a LOT of fun, which really helped make up to an extent for the limited campaign (which was comprised entirely of missions you could also fly singly). And then EAW and its dynamic campaign (bonus for the PTO Total Conversion).
Sounds lida like Il2FB/1946 with DCG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxjGOLDFOz0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7VUpM5EPqY
The campaign generator will generate complete rosters for your squadron and your AI wingmen will increase in skill and rank the longer they stay alive and more kills they get. The ground war/sea war will change according to your success rate. However, you have to be somewhat computer-literate to sett it all up.
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You seem like a very unbalanced person. ;)
There are several excellent third party campaigns available for Il-2. Case Blue and Case Yellow were excellent scripted campaigns, and then there's the very excellent DCG dynamic campaign generator.
Nothing unbalanced about hating scripted gameplay. I simply hate playing against bots. I hate screen captioning and the oh-so fake voice acting in the IL series. After I got introduced to online gaming I lost every bit of interest in scripted offline games.
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I've been of the opinion that the Training and Early War Arenas should be free to play, with Mid War being available via some sort of perk buy-in. Access to the remaining arenas would be via subscription.
That will eliminate the danger of "Pay To Win" since any arenas F2P users can access will restrict plane availability to EVERYBODY in those arenas.
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That would negate the one, major positive thing about F2P... the increase in number of players, since you put them in a separate arena from the paying customers. Why would anyone pay to fly in the LW arena if all the players are in EW?
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One of the major downsides of F2P games is that the developers can be forced to spend more time developing for the 'item mall' than for the actual game content itself. I honestly don't believe that AH would benefit switching to a F2P business model.
I also don't think it would be beneficial for AH to be put on Steam either, unless HiTech feels that losing 30% of all transactions would be worth the loss of revenue on each subscription every month through Steam.
ack-ack
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Everybody keeps talking about WT's player numbers, 8 million? I thought their arenas were limited to 20 players max? :headscratch:
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Everybody keeps talking about WT's player numbers, 8 million? I thought their arenas were limited to 20 players max? :headscratch:
They have a similar system like world of tanks where you go to lobby and then join small fights.
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One of the major downsides of F2P games is that the developers can be forced to spend more time developing for the 'item mall' than for the actual game content itself.
I agree. I tend to think that everything is on the table at this point, however. If HTC commits to a course of action they will consider the impact to logistics and grow staff if needed. The competition is not operating as a shop as small as HTC is today.
If business objectives change then the company will change...blah blah.
:salute
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One of the major downsides of F2P games is that the developers can be forced to spend more time developing for the 'item mall' than for the actual game content itself. I honestly don't believe that AH would benefit switching to a F2P business model.
I also don't think it would be beneficial for AH to be put on Steam either, unless HiTech feels that losing 30% of all transactions would be worth the loss of revenue on each subscription every month through Steam.
ack-ack
I dont think going full f2p would work here, for a number of reasons, a few you mentioned.
I do think a limited set of planes and tanks for free, and it you want to play with ALL the big boy toys you get a subscription like the rest of us. 2 options only, and you only pay if you want to use the good stuff.
Free increases the number of players with out really costing HTC anything more, and some of the free players WILL subscribe. Even if that percentage is small it is still an increase to HTC s coffers.
Seems like a win win to me.
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What if there was F2P for early war rides but only let them play in the late war arena and special events?
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What if there was F2P for early war rides but only let them play in the late war arena and special events?
That's what I'm saying. Give them access to 1 heavy bomber,1 medium bomber, the goon and couple of tanks. The p40, g2, spit8, and the d25.
The can play with those and still be a team player if they want, but if you want the good planes and tanks, subscribe.
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That's what I'm saying. Give them access to 1 heavy bomber,1 medium bomber, the goon and couple of tanks. The p40, g2, spit8, and the d25.
With a free selection like that, I would unsubscribe in a heartbeat :aok
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That's what I'm saying. Give them access to 1 heavy bomber,1 medium bomber, the goon and couple of tanks. The p40, g2, spit8, and the d25.
The can play with those and still be a team player if they want, but if you want the good planes and tanks, subscribe.
Agree. Just one other thing. Allow them to use thier perks on a certain amount of tanks and planes. Maybe tiger1 c-hog b-29, .also make the heavy bomber the b-24. I would hate to see all the noobs flying 17s. We have enough 999's
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That's what I'm saying. Give them access to 1 heavy bomber,1 medium bomber, the goon and couple of tanks. The p40, g2, spit8, and the d25.
The can play with those and still be a team player if they want, but if you want the good planes and tanks, subscribe.
You would need to provide a selection of competitive rides for each nation. But as I stated before they must not be or look like the hero planes. Aka, No 109s, Spits, P51, B17, Zeros.
Here is my list of AC that would be F2P:
British: Typhoon, Boston III, *Wellington, Hurricane MkIId. (Sea Hurricane for CV)
American: P-47 D40 (I feel this is the lest famous of the competitive fighters), B-24, B26 & P-40N (F6F for CV)
German: 190A5, Ju-88, Me-410
Japan: KI-43, KI-61, KI-67. (D3A and a *A5M for CV)
Russian: Yak-7b, Yak-9U, TU-2.
C-47 would be FTP.
Me-262, Me163 and Ar234, would be open for F2P, but the perk grind for them would be 10-20 times longer then currently. The reason I say these AC and not say a F4U-4, is that the 262 etc, are much stronger incentives to fly. People see that they are jets and go "Give me, Give me". Most would not have a clue how a F4U-4 is better then a F4U-1d.
*Added to the game at some point
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Agree. Just one other thing. Allow them to use thier perks on a certain amount of tanks and planes. Maybe tiger1 c-hog b-29, .also make the heavy bomber the b-24. I would hate to see all the noobs flying 17s. We have enough 999's
Free2play model needs paid perks. Micropayments are the true revenue for f2p.
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Free to play could be done in Aces High and would probably make the game a *lot* more profitable. They could just take a similar approach as War Thunder, where you start with some low end planes or vehicles and progressively unlock the rest. As much as I dislike the whole level up XP bar thing, I can't argue with the fact that it gets people playing, eager to unlock that next new plane, even if it turns out to be a disappointment, there's an anticipation factor that drives people to play for it.
I recently started playing the Ground Forces in War Thunder after having overlooked it for a while. The tank battles are a blast, the queue is rarely more than a few seconds and the battles are typically 5-10 minutes long. Very short and sweet with a lot action and none of that world of tanks hitpoint bars nonsense.
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They could just take a similar approach as War Thunder, where you start with some low end planes or vehicles and progressively unlock the rest. As much as I dislike the whole level up XP bar thing, I can't argue with the fact that it gets people playing, eager to unlock that next new plane, even if it turns out to be a disappointment, there's an anticipation factor that drives people to play for it.
That would destroy what AH is. Its the open map, pick anything, to fly and fight game. The Locked path leveling system only works when you can use a Match maker to place people against equal aircraft.
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and this is different from Aces High's 0 players in early and mid war arenas and 60+% of all planes in late war being late 1944 monsters how?
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HPriller, what's you're point, what's the bottom line for your endless posts about War Thunder? Are trying to recruit for a War Thunder? There are plenty of people there, "millions" I hear, they don't need your help. Are you just a Troll? You do not play Aces High. Is the War Thunder message boards lacking somehow so you come here? Is there no "community" there that we enjoy here?
Free to play could be done in Aces High and would probably make the game a *lot* more profitable. .
You are guessing sir. You do not run this business. You have no idea what would make Aces High more profitable. You do not know how profitable Aces High is.
If this is all about you trying to "help out" Aces High, go to the War Thunder boards and spend your time recruiting for Aces High.
Aces High is what it is, if you enjoy playing it then go play it, if you don't play it, then please, just go.
Thank you.
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Ooooh look! ... A fanboi.
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That's what I'm saying. Give them access to 1 heavy bomber,1 medium bomber, the goon and couple of tanks. The p40, g2, spit8, and the d25.
The can play with those and still be a team player if they want, but if you want the good planes and tanks, subscribe.
heck give me the spit8 and I'll cancel mine too.
semp
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heck give me the spit8 and I'll cancel mine too.
semp
Im sure some would cancel their subscriptions and could be content with a few planes, but I think they would get more that could NOT and so would subscribe.
I work in the vending business. I repair vending machines and have done so for 30 years. One part of my job is to do the actual changes of pricing as it comes down the line. It always goes up :D and in every place I change the price there is alway a number of people who say "Im not going to pay that for a bottle of soda. I'll pay a third of that at BJ's, Walmart, blah blah blah... and bring in my own." Funny thing is I have NEVER seen any of them ever do it. They ALWAYS pay the extra, ALWAYS!
Some my cancel, but most will be back. They will miss flying their pony now and then, or chasing down all those buffs in a 152 or grabbing a few quick kills in a 163. I still think its a win win for everyone. Heck they could try it and if the numbers don't look good after 6 months cancel the program of F2P.
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I don't think the free to play angle would bring in any significant additional subscribers. There's a good reason H2H was shut down. Aces High is already very cheap and as somebody already posted it serves as a filter of sorts keeping out children and eastern european hackers. Remember all the juvenile rants from junior high kids when it was announced that WW2OL wouldn't be free? You really want to let them in our gentlemen's club? A free to play segment would be populated with people who either can't or won't pay for a subscription. We already have the free 2 week trial. If a player doesn't subscribe after that it's not because he's still undecided.
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I wonder how many people would pay for perks if HTC experimented on selling them. That might create a sizeable chunk of revenue especially for new (or returning) players who haven't got their own.
HTC could enable a perk stock exchange where loaded players could 'sell' their perks to noobs at 50% discount and HTC would take a 10% profit from each transaction.
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HTC could enable a perk stock exchange where loaded players could 'sell' their perks to noobs at 50% discount and HTC would take a 10% profit from each transaction.
No, never put a way to transfer perks between players in game. We don't need bloody gold farmer spam in chat.
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F2P - 1 early war panzer, spit 1, c47, m3, and ju88 only
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Marketing done right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekFVmp9N6I8
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I don't think the free to play angle would bring in any significant additional subscribers. There's a good reason H2H was shut down. Aces High is already very cheap and as somebody already posted it serves as a filter of sorts keeping out children and eastern european hackers. Remember all the juvenile rants from junior high kids when it was announced that WW2OL wouldn't be free? You really want to let them in our gentlemen's club? A free to play segment would be populated with people who either can't or won't pay for a subscription. We already have the free 2 week trial. If a player doesn't subscribe after that it's not because he's still undecided.
I'd he happy to see a F2P with the limited plane set just for the increase in numbers in the arenas. It wouldn't have the same issues the old H2H arenas had because ALL arenas are now server side. The old H2H was client side and that was why some people created issues.
Like I said, I don't think it would be any over head for HTC. It would bring in more players just to play for free, and even if only a small number upgrade to the full subscription it is still more money for HTC.
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Floob: I don't know if I'd be 'happy' about F2P, but I think I understand your tone here. If HTC doesn't see an increase in new players, then the current journey to AH3 will not meet expectations.
Zoney: With respect, I understand the general frustration in what you posted to HPriller. However this is a time for open discussion and examination of possibilities. HTC reads these boards and all ideas should be welcomed at this point. They might even get some perspective that would not be as easily accessible. Just saying. :cheers:
:salute
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I wonder how many people would pay for perks if HTC experimented on selling them. That might create a sizeable chunk of revenue especially for new (or returning) players who haven't got their own.
HTC could enable a perk stock exchange where loaded players could 'sell' their perks to noobs at 50% discount and HTC would take a 10% profit from each transaction.
I +1 this purely for selfish financial reasons. :aok, hell give HT 12% :lol
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Make the ww1 arena FTP then when the noobs get bored of the same old same old they may step up to the other arenas and subscribe. Even EW arena to get them hooked. :airplane:
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Make the ww1 arena FTP then when the noobs get bored of the same old same old they may step up to the other arenas and subscribe. Even EW arena to get them hooked. :airplane:
If the FTP gamers are all forced into the WW1 area, they will A) get a false impression, B) have little to no incentive to Sub. If by some miracle they do Sub, what in the rest of AH matches the WW1 area? I guess the dueling arena, but even that has enough differences. They might feel duped.
Its late here and I am just going to cheat and use Extra Credits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI
That last video's last point is the most valid. Yes FTP and/or Micro-transaction can be good, but it is not always the right thing for every game.
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My point as is I previously stated. I like BOTH of these games. It's not about which game is better, they are pretty wildly different in fact. But this is ultimately about playerbase and marketing. Aces High lacks the playerbase to be worth the subscription currently, the last time I was subbed I found it much too hard and time consuming to find any action in the game and this was almost entirely due to the number of other players online. Personally, I don't see this changing for the better without some change to their marketing strategy, hence free2play. I can't say whether or not it would be more healthy for the game in the long term but I'd bet in the short term it would most certainly increase both revenue for the game and player base.
I see examples of this all the time, even just recently on Steam, Wakfu was released as a free2play. This game used to be a privately run subscription based game too, but over time it's playerbase had inevitably declined. Now it's released on steam as free2play, and BOOM, a huge injection of new players a probably tons of cash for the parent company when even a small percentage of the new players buy whatever starter pack or premium time deal they offer. Even with a huge chunk of the money going to Steam, it probably made good business sense to do that deal simply because of market exposure. It's like that TV show Shark Tank where the various guys pitch their company to those robber barons. Even if they make a crappy deal with the shark getting the lion's share of the profit, the market exposure gained from just being on the show and associated with it catapults their company from some mom and pop niche thing into a household name with so much volume they have to open 3 new factories to produce it.
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Ratsy, thank you, I was way to harsh.
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After watching those videos I was made to face just how much I don't know about the state of game development today.
I used to understand death by 1,000 cuts as a thing that was bad or at least hyper-cynical. Somehow the world has changed and games are now are conceived to divest small amounts of money from large numbers players over time. A formula. A formula that is wrought with complexity outside of the normal challenges of 'just playing'.
Like many of you, this is my hobby. Buying a $60 title, or paying a subscription, was palatable because the product was usually baked, tested, and proven before I got it. One transaction and done. I don't want to think about the money I've spent over the years for game products without also considering the pleasure it gave me to play them. In my mind, there was that balance, and perhaps a level playing field.
This model 'feels' wrong. These games seem to say "something is better than nothing especially if somebody else (through whatever mechanism) is paying for it". Or, worse, you perceive, by design, that you will never be competitive because you lack the talent or eye-hand coordination unless you pay for your game-leveling micro-transactions. Or even worse, "What are you crying about?! We gave you a choice!".
Many people my age (old) are buying into this new world, I suppose. My own wife, traitor, plays Clash of Clans and scoffs at my AH subscription. I'm officially a curmudgeon. If given only the choice of F2P, I will not be around any longer.
Still I'm not content to give up on Aces High and hope that a compromise can be found that allows an honest transaction in the face of hordes that demand to die by 1,000 cuts. Go figure.
Did you know the earth was flat?
:salute
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Ratsy, thank you, I was way to harsh.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with passion!
:salute
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Wakfu was released in 2012 targeting millennials who don't have money and have come to expect the internet to pander to them or else. Yes, that is a loosing proposition with generation "give me freebees or screw you". Are you also a Millennial Priller?
And you "specifically" seem to have problems with finding a fight during your prime time. My squadmates from all over the U.S. and myself, up to 2am, sometimes 3am U.S. Pacific coast time, find fights or create fights non stop. It does require letting mini hoardlings gang you to feel safe fighting the later it gets. But, I thought Aces High was all about the fight, if you want to fight.
When Hitech allowed "free" head to head arenas, they turned into idiot "napoleon complex" garbage receptacles and ultimately a testing ground for hackers to capture the coad from memory dumps. You can still find the now infamous Youtube film by the hacker who pulled it off.
Your whole post is just filler to cover your real wish. You want Hitech to make Aces High FtP and you are disillusioned about "finding" combat during your Prime Time. The rest is fluffy repetitious rationalization with some shots thrown in at Hitech because you are unhappy.
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lol I'm no millennial, just turned 37 this month. I was playing Aces High over 10 years ago. And I made no shots at HiTech. I just would like to some change made to make it worth playing again. The last time I subbed, when I was playing I typically saw between 40-80 players in the main arena split between 3 teams often with a sizable percentage of them AFK or not doing anything. There's a lot of competition for my gaming dollar and in my book $15 a month for this was no longer worthwhile. I'm not saying it couldn't be worthwhile as a subscription game. But somehow the players have gotta be there, and a move to free2play is the only solution I can think of. Instead of attacking other posters why don't you think of a solution to this problem?
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I +1 this purely for selfish financial reasons. :aok, hell give HT 12% :lol
That might actually also reduce gamey behaviour on the arena, people would want to fly their perks home to farm them. Less suicide lawndart attacks or bailing.
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That might actually also reduce gamey behaviour on the arena, people would want to fly their perks home to farm them. Less suicide lawndart attacks or bailing.
let's see should I dive into a red of cons or stay way above and pick then run home land and sell the perks to pay for my second home. heck I would stay up a couple of hours a day in mw or ew bombing towns to get more perks to sell.
which gamey behavior you trying to avoid?
semp
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Trying to survive and land your kills isn't "gamey". It's what you're supposed to do.
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If HTC doesn't see an increase in new players, then the current journey to AH3 will not meet expectations.
Don't make the mistake of stating your opinion as if it is a fact.
You know what my expectations are? I expect HTC to upgrade the graphics and then advertise, which will temporarily increase the MA population. I'll turn my graphic settings back down to minimum within a couple days of the update. Unfortunately I don't expect the ma gameplay to change at all. And I expect that I'll still find the arena more fun when there are only 60 players on then when there are 300. When there's 60 players on I can find fights all night because they are fighting. When there's much more than that online they are hording and the rest of the map is empty. You know what I predict if the prime time player population increases? That the horde will be bigger, that's it. If the gameplay stays as stale and as boring as it has become any new players are going to quickly get bored and leave before they have ever had the chance to become adrenaline addicts. Ever get in a dogfight with someone and then they send you a PM telling you that it was the most fun they've ever had in aces high? I've had a few, and then I'll check their stats and see that they've been playing for months or even a year. And that's really sad. They have been playing aces high for that long before they experienced what's supposed to be happening all the time.
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let's see should I dive into a red of cons or stay way above and pick then run home land and sell the perks to pay for my second home. heck I would stay up a couple of hours a day in mw or ew bombing towns to get more perks to sell.
which gamey behavior you trying to avoid?
semp
The first behaviour is just like pilots did in real WW2. The second is a gameplay flaw in AH that allows people to play against poor AI in an empty arena. People like that should just go play offline, why bother logging in. Besides I don't think bomber perks would seel very well.
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Don't make the mistake of stating your opinion as if it is a fact.
I think I've made it plain that what I write is my own opinion. If I got a little lazy in that regard...okay. Sue me. :)
Tipping points are a fact, Floob. If the current imbalance of turnover continues without mitigation, a profitability tipping point will be reached. Close the doors.
My opinion again, I think 'everything' is on the table for AH3 which means that some of the cause and effect you predict could be addressed and mitigated. I've never seen HTC afraid to make tough decisions. They will do what's right for the business. A few of yesterday's sacred cows could become tonight's barbecue dinner.
The fascinating thing for me has been the journey to come back up to speed on the business pressures that are driving game development. Some things that I once regarded as 'laws' or at least 'constraints' aren't there nowadays. There is much that I didn't know or consider. The scary part is that I haven't even scratched the surface of it.
I can say definitively, however, I will never buy into the War Thunder way of doing things. I'm also certain that Gaijin Entertainment will not be bothered by that at all.
:salute
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The first behaviour is just like pilots did in real WW2. The second is a gameplay flaw in AH that allows people to play against poor AI in an empty arena. People like that should just go play offline, why bother logging in. Besides I don't think bomber perks would seel very well.
p38's an other jabos arent bombers and they give you some pretty good perks. but if you are willing to buy some fighter perks I got thousands. heck I am itching to buy another vc to sli.
semp
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p38's an other jabos arent bombers and they give you some pretty good perks. but if you are willing to buy some fighter perks I got thousands. heck I am itching to buy another vc to sli.
semp
I highly doubt people would pay so much for perks to buy display cards, maybe 1 month free AH subscription though. Guncrasher you seem to be on some sort of crusade and the best thing you're only making yourself look bad with your attempts lol.
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If this game was better than AH we would be playing it :old:
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If this game was better than AH we would be playing it :old:
Solid point. :) :cheers:
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I highly doubt people would pay so much for perks to buy display cards, maybe 1 month free AH subscription though. Guncrasher you seem to be on some sort of crusade and the best thing you're only making yourself look bad with your attempts lol.
well if they wont make me money then what would be the point of asking to sell them? I sure as hell wont sell them for pennies :D.
semp
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well if they wont make me money then what would be the point of asking to sell them? I sure as hell wont sell them for pennies :D.
semp
I'm sure that there would be plenty of people willing to sell 500 perks they never use for a month of free AH.