Post by: FESS67 on October 09, 2015, 09:43:05 AM
HOWEVER.....it causes people to leave the game because they cannot fly the plane they want. Anyone who thinks ENY is not an issue, spend some time logged in when ENY is in full force.....just log in and look at the chat buffer.
I do not know the answer. My personal preference is no ENY ever.
I was advised by another player tonight that I should embrace EW and MW planes and ENY would not be an issue. I understand and accept the approach.....BUT...I want to fly a P51. It really is a simple as that. When you take that away from me I log off. Is it that hard to understand??????
Post by: Wiley on October 09, 2015, 09:51:26 AM
However that's not the case. I don't think it helps either. Being outnumbered 4:1 by 20+ ENY planes is not materially different from being outnumbered 4:1 by 5 ENY planes.
Wiley.
Post by: waystin2 on October 09, 2015, 10:02:02 AM
Post by: Wizz on October 09, 2015, 10:42:56 AM
ENY might be ok if chesspiece loyalty wasn't the single largest driving force behind 95% of the playerbase and people could switch for numbers on a regular basis.Wiley your always on fire with these posts and I agree :salute
However that's not the case. I don't think it helps either. Being outnumbered 4:1 by 20+ ENY planes is not materially different from being outnumbered 4:1 by 5 ENY planes.
Wiley.
With that said without ENY i may never have flown German buffs in LW ;)
Post by: guncrasher on October 09, 2015, 10:44:28 AM
semp
Post by: Copprhed on October 09, 2015, 10:57:55 AM
Post by: Skyyr on October 09, 2015, 11:06:57 AM
eny wouldnt be a problem if the people who claim they always switch to the low number side would actually switch to the low number side.
semp
Except that that switching sides may a) not be possible because of the 6-hour rule (especially if a group of players switched a few hours earlier for ENY issues) or b) result in little to no action, depending on the numbers and players at the different fronts.
Post by: Wiley on October 09, 2015, 11:07:28 AM
ENY wouldn't be a problem if people didn't insist on flying their late war planes.
Why does this argument always get hauled out? Sure, most people if they applied themselves could be 95% effective in a 20-30ENY plane as compared to the late war stuff, but so what?
If people only want to fly the low ENY stuff, why not? Perk rides are a different story, but the unperked late war stuff just doesn't give that much meaningful advantage over the higher ENY stuff.
Honestly, when was the last time anybody heard over country channel something to the effect of, "Oh thank goodness, ENY is keeping them out of the late war planes." I can't recall ever seeing it happen since I've been here. All I ever hear about when numbers are skewed is how the high number side's hording. It just doesn't have a meaningful effect.
Wiley.
Post by: Devil 505 on October 09, 2015, 11:36:13 AM
If ENY make you want to log off, go ahead. All who remain are better off.
Post by: Lusche on October 09, 2015, 11:41:30 AM
Honestly, when was the last time anybody heard over country channel something to the effect of, "Oh thank goodness, ENY is keeping them out of the late war planes." I can't recall ever seeing it happen since I've been here.
Because people tend to take notice of ENY (and any other inconvenience) only when it hit's them (hangar popup).
That's why you also read things like "they have never ENY" or "they never fight each other / we always get ganged" and so on...
Post by: Kazaa on October 09, 2015, 11:41:45 AM
Post by: Wizz on October 09, 2015, 11:45:28 AM
eny wouldnt be a problem if the people who claim they always switch to the low number side would actually switch to the low number side.
semp
Post by: oboe on October 09, 2015, 11:47:30 AM
Quote
I was advised by another player tonight that I should embrace EW and MW planes and ENY would not be an issue. I understand and accept the approach.....BUT...I want to fly a P51. It really is a simple as that. When you take that away from me I log off. Is it that hard to understand??????
You may well understand the approach, but if you still logoff when your P-51 is taken away, it doesn't really sound like you are accepting it.
Post by: Snork on October 09, 2015, 11:50:46 AM
Why does this argument always get hauled out? Sure, most people if they applied themselves could be 95% effective in a 20-30ENY plane as compared to the late war stuff, but so what?
If people only want to fly the low ENY stuff, why not? Perk rides are a different story, but the unperked late war stuff just doesn't give that much meaningful advantage over the higher ENY stuff.
Honestly, when was the last time anybody heard over country channel something to the effect of, "Oh thank goodness, ENY is keeping them out of the late war planes." I can't recall ever seeing it happen since I've been here. All I ever hear about when numbers are skewed is how the high number side's hording. It just doesn't have a meaningful effect.
Wiley.
If it makes you feel any better the eny would improve if more "late war or nothing" folks would log out. It would help half as much as if you change sides. You can take your sweetie out to a movie or get acquainted with your kids and know you've helped your friends get cheaper late war rides.
Post by: Wizz on October 09, 2015, 11:51:10 AM
How would you go about taking the advantage away from the chess piece which has numerical superiority?I would...
Rally 10 players for an ammo strat run. Drop it below 50% and use a heavy fighter/light fighter escort. On the return trip id have the buffs with ords left and jabos porking the front. 1hr tops high risk mission to neuter attacks.
Or go to AAA by myself drop it below 15% and let others setup a vulch fest :x
Post by: Snork on October 09, 2015, 11:57:30 AM
How would you go about taking the advantage away from the chess piece which has numerical superiority?
One little change might do it. How about removing the time limit for switching back if you switch to a low numbers country?
Post by: Wizz on October 09, 2015, 12:04:59 PM
One little change might do it. How about removing the time limit for switching back if you switch to a low numbers country?then you throw out any chance of fair competitive play. What stops someone from side switching just for intel?
Sure you can always run 2 accounts and gather nme intel that way but that is a different topic and one i refuse to practice.
The best way to counter it is to rally as a country and force the enemy's hand head on in organized tactical combat. Something a lot of people want nothing to do with.
Numbers will increase in the future but eny will remain. What is a killer is high eny with low numbers. If its 30vs8vs23 it makes things hard to get done tactically speaking. Still everytime i deal with high eny it forces me to change my tactics a bit and I always look forward to something different.
Post by: Aspen on October 09, 2015, 12:06:03 PM
One little change might do it. How about removing the time limit for switching back if you switch to a low numbers country?
Been suggested many times before and I can't come up with any unintended consequences other than squads getting separated if the balance evens out or flips before they all switch. Without a time limit on going to the low side, there will always be a side available to switch to so I think guys who want to fly together would be able to, just might take a couple switches. You could swap just for intel, but until numbers even out they would be stuck on the enemy side for 6 hours.
Post by: hitech on October 09, 2015, 12:15:58 PM
Been suggested many times before and I can't come up with any unintended consequences other than squads getting separated if the balance evens out or flips before they all switch. Without a time limit on going to the low side, there will always be a side available to switch to so I think guys who want to fly together would be able to, just might take a couple switches. You could swap just for intel, but until numbers even out they would be stuck on the enemy side for 6 hours.
Quote
unintended consequencesLets say your on the low side and your time switch has expired.
You can then switch to the high side, and immediately switch back.
HiTEch
Post by: Wiley on October 09, 2015, 12:18:25 PM
Lets say your on the low side and your time switch has expired.
You can then switch to the high side, and immediately switch back.
HiTEch
...So? Why warp the game around people who only want to play hide and go seek?
Wiley.
Post by: 68ZooM on October 09, 2015, 12:19:05 PM
Post by: SlipKnt on October 09, 2015, 12:26:13 PM
I have little sympathy for the "I can't fly my plane because of ENY" crowd. It shows an unwillingness to fly an aircraft that does not have the safety net of speed and it show they lack the fortitude to endure fighting at a disadvantage.
If ENY make you want to log off, go ahead. All who remain are better off.
THIS!!! :aok
I prefer the F6F or C205 in LW. I actually started flying the A6M2 in there last night. It is fun to fly the earlier planes in LW. Amps up the game for me.
Post by: Randy1 on October 09, 2015, 12:30:53 PM
...I want to fly a P51.
Maybe the answer is raise the P-51D to a 10. The P-51 is just not that big of threat anyway.
Post by: Devil 505 on October 09, 2015, 12:36:44 PM
The P-51 is just not that big of threat anyway.
That's because the pilot is usually running away! :devil
Post by: Drane on October 09, 2015, 12:40:15 PM
Honestly, when was the last time anybody heard over country channel something to the effect of, "Oh thank goodness, ENY is keeping them out of the late war planes." I can't recall ever seeing it happen since I've been here.
Wiley.
Me...I've said this many times. In fact, I love to hear the squeals and whines of players in a horde when they have a hard time because of ENY.
Post by: Wiley on October 09, 2015, 12:44:36 PM
Me...I've said this many times. In fact, I love to hear the squeals and whines of players in a horde when they have a hard time because of ENY.
Ok, but the outnumbered side's still getting ganged right left and center. Where's the benefit again, other than the whining and possibly getting them to log?
Wiley.
Post by: Drane on October 09, 2015, 12:57:07 PM
Ok, but the outnumbered side's still getting ganged right left and center. Where's the benefit again, other than the whining and possibly getting them to log?
Wiley.
I'm talking about the players in the horde, the ones who yell at you from a mob and then cry like a baby if you catch them alone. If they want to kill inanimate objects without resistance, go to another arena.
Post by: Wiley on October 09, 2015, 01:06:49 PM
I'm talking about the players in the horde, the ones who yell at you from a mob and then cry like a baby if you catch them alone. If they want to kill inanimate objects without resistance, go to another arena.
Right. So the low numbered side's getting ganged, whining, and logging off or moving somewhere else on the map.
The high numbered side's whining about ENY, ganging, and some are maybe logging off.
What's the benefit again? Getting people to log off out of frustration shouldn't be an intentional part of the game design, especially with numbers the way they are.
Wiley.
Post by: Oldman731 on October 09, 2015, 01:11:48 PM
BUT...I want to fly a P51. It really is a simple as that. When you take that away from me I log off. Is it that hard to understand??????
Honestly, for me at least, that is hard to understand.
Not saying you're right and I'm wrong, but I just don't grasp why someone would insist on always flying one particular plane, all the time, when we have so many nice ones to choose from.
- oldman
Post by: Lusche on October 09, 2015, 01:20:07 PM
Maybe the answer is raise the P-51D to a 10. The P-51 is just not that big of threat anyway.
But in fact the P-51D is the big killer in the main arena... no other plane kills so much more than it is being killed. It's the dominating plane of the set.
Post by: waystin2 on October 09, 2015, 01:27:20 PM
But in fact the P-51D is the big killer in the main arena... no other plane kills so much more than it is being killed. It's the dominating plane of the set.
PERK IT!!! :D
Post by: save on October 09, 2015, 01:46:35 PM
Specially oldtimers should really try higher ENY rides, and let them LA7s and P51s, Dora's to someone else who really need them to stay competitive.
I also up some better ENY planes to beat a big raid, but ENY 20+ is my norm.
Post by: katanaso on October 09, 2015, 01:55:35 PM
Want to fly a 5 ENY plane, and the ENY is set at 10, it costs xx number of perks.
For the other sides, if they shoot you down, they earn a bonus in perk points.
ENY doesn't really affect me. On the instances where ENY prevented me from taking a 51D or La7, I took a 51B or La5. But it's not about me. :)
Post by: Mitchell on October 09, 2015, 02:04:43 PM
Easy solution: change ENY to a Perk Penalty, and have it increase in some exponent to the relative ENY.
Want to fly a 5 ENY plane, and the ENY is set at 10, it costs xx number of perks.
For the other sides, if they shoot you down, they earn a bonus in perk points.
ENY doesn't really affect me. On the instances where ENY prevented me from taking a 51D or La7, I took a 51B or La5. But it's not about me. :)
^^^^ As the ENY goes up the low ENY planes get a perk cost added to them.
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 09, 2015, 02:06:43 PM
I dont get it why everyone need to fly low ENY rides all the time. Challenge yourself !
Heaven forbid anyone that flies the planes they enjoy. You people spend way too much time worrying about what other players fly.
Post by: Wiley on October 09, 2015, 02:07:55 PM
Wiley.
Post by: hitech on October 09, 2015, 02:09:23 PM
Right. So the low numbered side's getting ganged, whining, and logging off or moving somewhere else on the map.
The high numbered side's whining about ENY, ganging, and some are maybe logging off.
What's the benefit again? Getting people to log off out of frustration shouldn't be an intentional part of the game design, especially with numbers the way they are.
Wiley.
The complaints about ENY and side imbalance are only a wisper as compared to the complaints about country imbalance pre ENY days.
HiTech
Post by: Wiley on October 09, 2015, 02:22:30 PM
The complaints about ENY and side imbalance are only a wisper as compared to the complaints about country imbalance pre ENY days.
HiTech
While it might be getting into the area of stuff you don't want to talk about publically, I'd still like to ask. As it stands now, what mechanism does ENY give better numbers through? Do people log, or do they switch?
I dispute the idea that an overwhelming force flying slightly worse planes has any meaningful impact on the experience of the outnumbered side.
Wiley.
Post by: bozon on October 09, 2015, 02:33:04 PM
While it might be getting into the area of stuff you don't want to talk about publically, I'd still like to ask. As it stands now, what mechanism does ENY give better numbers through? Do people log, or do they switch?The 3 sides have never been better balanced. The ENY does not work on per-session scale, it works globally - if every time in your regular hours you get hit by ENY limiter, it means you should switch sides and then stay on that side for an extended period (days at least). In other words, it is supposed to annoy you on regular base till you finally get the message and switch.
I dispute the idea that an overwhelming force flying slightly worse planes has any meaningful impact on the experience of the outnumbered side.
Entire squadrons can move in this way, as opposed to per-session switching. In the long run, the sides get balanced, at least statistically. It does not work as well when very few players are logged in due to small numbers statistics.
Limiting the lowest ENY planes probably has negligible direct effect on base capture effectiveness - but that is not what it is intended to do.
Post by: Wiley on October 09, 2015, 02:48:51 PM
In other words, it is supposed to annoy you on regular base till you finally get the message and switch.
That's fantastic. Does it actually work? It doesn't appear to me to.
What I'm saying is, is the chesspiece underoo brigade as prevalent as they appear to me to be? It appears to me that the vast majority (I'd be comfortable saying it's more than 75%, I think it's actually likely around 90) refuse to switch sides because of chesspiece loyalty, so what I see is people either play with ENY or log.
Wiley.
Post by: save on October 09, 2015, 02:53:25 PM
War is more enjoyable when you have all the advantages.
Heaven forbid anyone that flies the planes they enjoy. You people spend way too much time worrying about what other players fly.
Post by: hitech on October 09, 2015, 02:57:10 PM
That's fantastic. Does it actually work? It doesn't appear to me to.
What I'm saying is, is the chesspiece underoo brigade as prevalent as they appear to me to be? It appears to me that the vast majority (I'd be comfortable saying it's more than 75%, I think it's actually likely around 90) refuse to switch sides because of chesspiece loyalty, so what I see is people either play with ENY or log.
Wiley.
Wiley you do not understand what it was like pre ENY . There would be periods of many months where 1 side was out numbered ever hour of every day. Post ENY that has never happened. So it absolutely with out a doubt works.
HiTech
Post by: Wiley on October 09, 2015, 03:17:48 PM
Wiley you do not understand what it was like pre ENY . There would be periods of many months where 1 side was out numbered ever hour of every day. Post ENY that has never happened. So it absolutely with out a doubt works.
HiTech
Based on what I've seen, very few people switch. That would mean the only option would be they either play with the ENY penalty and horde, or they log and improve the ENY situation but worsen the low numbers situation.
I guess under that scenario people logging is seen as the lesser of two evils then? Makes sense, but I don't like the downside.
Wiley.
Post by: FLS on October 09, 2015, 03:20:02 PM
Post by: hitech on October 09, 2015, 03:35:56 PM
Makes sense, but I don't like the downside.
Wiley.
There is not any down side. Before MORE people would log from the side with the least numbers making the problem even worse.
Hence as compared to life with out ENY, there is no downside.
HiTech
Post by: caldera on October 09, 2015, 03:48:27 PM
Based on what I've seen, very few people switch. That would mean the only option would be they either play with the ENY penalty and horde, or they log and improve the ENY situation but worsen the low numbers situation.
I guess under that scenario people logging is seen as the lesser of two evils then? Makes sense, but I don't like the downside.
Wiley.
Since the six hour rule was implemented, I have been switching countries quite a bit. The shorter the time between allowable switches, the more people will switch. I for one would love unlimited switching to the lowest numbered side. It's more fun for me to fight the side that's rolling.
p.s. ENY rules! :)
Post by: BaldEagl on October 09, 2015, 03:49:41 PM
How about the large country gets continually degrading strat effects. For instance at some pre-determined level the entire country losses drop tanks or fuel is reduced to 75% max. Maybe ord and troop loadouts are reduced by 50% or auto ack is reduced in strength. Mix it up as the numbers grow. Everyone still gets to fly what they want but it takes those extra players to get the same job done.
Post by: RufusLeaking on October 09, 2015, 03:51:02 PM
But in fact the P-51D is the big killer in the main arena... no other plane kills so much more than it is being killed. It's the dominating plane of the set.This is because it can run away.
It dominates the track meet set.
On topic, just fly all the planes. Old, slow planes need love, too. The worst part about it is not the red guys, it is the green guys in fast planes getting to the enemy first.
Post by: bustr on October 09, 2015, 05:04:33 PM
The OP, unless he polls all active players, really doesn't know of more than a few friends and squad mates who logs off or have logged off over ENY. Though that is supposed to be fixable by changing countries if the ride is all one is really upset about. I suspect Hitech has a better grasp of the number who really log over ENY then the OP will ever have unless he can become an HTC employee.
So the OP is angry about ENY keeping him from flying the P-51D and logs off rather than utilize another ride. I suspect even he knows telling HTC through this forum that his next step will be to cancel his account is fruitless to get a change in ENY favorable to himself. He would be sitting on the wrong side of the limb as he sawed it.
On squad nights for many of our squads across the three chess pieces, I watch their groups adapt to ENY by staying together and harnessing the strengths of the rides they are limited to. POTW and our friend squads in the knights all do this. We just grin and bare it while we keep killing the red guys. Since AH1 and the rook joint squad operations with 300+ players closing down the MA forced Hitech to implement ENY. Now with ENY in effect, I don't see everyone jumping to the side with numbers to be on the winning team all flying the uber rides and causing account cancelations. That was the mother of all unintended consequences I've seen in this game since 2002.
Since ENY has been in force, it's been individuals who don't like flying lesser rides for the most part yelling at Hitech in these forums over ENY.
The real mistake by the OP was including his rigid position that he only fly's the P-51D so wants ENY changed by Hitech to favor his personal preference. The rest, is the same noise and wasted text Hitech has said no to since he imposed ENY.
Looks like the OP has a personal decision to make.
Post by: FESS67 on October 09, 2015, 06:23:06 PM
I usually fly when there are around 40 to 50 players in game. One of the suggestions was to get 10 players together and go hit strats. LOL at the time I play there are not even 10 players on my side in flight!
Perhaps ENY could be linked somehow to a population cap. If the population in game is less than 60 (for example) ENY does not kick in.
For those of you who assume I fly the 51 because I want to run away - come try me. This game is bad enough with its lack of fights, I will engage and stay in the fight. Last night I was flying as Hooter and had some good fights in my 51 without running.
As for other planes - I know they are there and I know you guys have fun in them - just not my preference.
bustr - thanks for your assessment of me, you are however incorrect. I am not angry, I am not about to cancel my account - in fact at present I have 4 accounts - and I am not rigid in my position. I have a preference to fly the P51D. I like to fight in it. It is actually easier to get kills in many other MW and EW planes, they turn better, hit harder and are not that slow. The 51 is fast if you keep it fast but lacks acceleration and hitting power. It can engage in a turnfight but against most other planes it is going to lose in a couple of turns.
How about you try flying it and actually fighting in it rather than joining the hit and run brigade. In fact why not come wing with me and then make your assessment.
Post by: bustr on October 09, 2015, 06:34:12 PM
Remember this:
I want to fly a P51. It really is a simple as that. When you take that away from me I log off. Is it that hard to understand??????
This boils down to you, your pony, and Hitech. What are you going to do??????
Post by: FESS67 on October 09, 2015, 06:53:42 PM
I cannot believe I am the only one. Hitech has already stated that more logged off without ENY than with it so he has made that choice. My choice is to log off.
Post by: caldera on October 09, 2015, 06:56:54 PM
I have a preference to fly the P51D. I like to fight in it. It is actually easier to get kills in many other MW and EW planes, they turn better, hit harder and are not that slow. The 51 is fast if you keep it fast but lacks acceleration and hitting power. It can engage in a turnfight but against most other planes it is going to lose in a couple of turns.
Many MW and EW planes are easier to get kills in than the P-51D? And six fifties is a lack of hitting power?
I call shenanigans.
This a game and games have rules to level the playing field. ENY is one of those rules. Switch sides or switch your ride.
Post by: FESS67 on October 09, 2015, 07:05:36 PM
Think before you post!
Post by: caldera on October 09, 2015, 07:13:39 PM
ohhhhh another genius. Switch sides.....there is still a side switch timer in place. I can change to the low side and 2 hours later that is the high side.......I cannot switch again.
Think before you post!
(stupid guy voice) How many times has that particular scenario actually happened? Be honest.
Specifically, how many times have the numbers reversed so much that side A had 51s locked, you switched to side B and two hours later, side B had 51s locked?
Post by: blutic on October 09, 2015, 07:30:02 PM
In the LW no ENY and no perked planes.
Maybe people will gravitate to the Early war and Mid war arenas?
Post by: dirtdart on October 09, 2015, 07:36:07 PM
Post by: icepac on October 09, 2015, 07:51:52 PM
These guys would pitch a whining fit if they ever ran into a rolling planeset................more realism.
Post by: The Fugitive on October 09, 2015, 08:12:39 PM
Sure for that 1 percent it sucks, but for the rest we get a more balanced play field.
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 09, 2015, 08:52:53 PM
I just pick a different plane.
These guys would pitch a whining fit if they ever ran into a rolling planeset................more realism.
If this game introduced a rolling plane set in the MA, I'd quit. Why pay $15 a month to only fly a week or two of the campaign? It was probably the main reason why I ended up quitting WB when the rolling plane set was first introduced in that game.
Post by: guncrasher on October 09, 2015, 09:06:57 PM
semp
Post by: hitech on October 09, 2015, 09:38:24 PM
If this game introduced a rolling plane set in the MA, I'd quit. Why pay $15 a month to only fly a week or two of the campaign? It was probably the main reason why I ended up quitting WB when the rolling plane set was first introduced in that game.
Yea that was one of our ideas that we decided we would not do again.
HiTech
Post by: Mongoose on October 09, 2015, 11:51:52 PM
Wiley you do not understand what it was like pre ENY . There would be periods of many months where 1 side was out numbered ever hour of every day. Post ENY that has never happened. So it absolutely with out a doubt works.
HiTech
I was in a job a few years ago where several people told me that I needed to do my job a certain way. I absolutely refused, because I had already tried it that way, and I knew that it didn't work. So I understand your position.
ENY is the one part of this game that I absolutely hate! But I know it is there for a reason. And it will have to stay until someone comes up with a better idea, and no one has.
So, as much as I hate ENY, :salute Hitech for sticking to his guns.
Post by: Debrody on October 10, 2015, 12:39:34 AM
Chess piece loyality. Do i find it stupid? For the hell yes, still, there is no other way one can follow because of the fantastic 12 hours side switch timer.
The eny system is good as it is. The 12 hours rule should be fired immediately. It would instantly add a LOT to the gaming experience in the off-peak hours as the players would actually have a chance to switch to the low numbers side and actually find a fight.
And yes the inability for finding a fight or chage sides played a rule of my retirement, even though it wasnt the only reason.
Flame suit on, Hitech, but i would seriously think about this topic.
Post by: FLS on October 10, 2015, 12:52:42 AM
Post by: Debrody on October 10, 2015, 01:04:38 AM
Hitech already changed the 12 hour rule.6 hours as i heard. Honestly does it really change anything?
Post by: Bruv119 on October 10, 2015, 01:34:05 AM
Have you tried the P51-B? :devil
It is practically the same plane but the challenge is, can you shoot well enough to down planes in the same manner with 4x 50cals instead of 6? With all that speed and wingman flying hitting an occupied/roped plane should be no problem. It will improve your shooting ability so when you go back to 6 guns it will feel awfully unfair.
Post by: FBKampfer on October 10, 2015, 02:29:01 AM
Personally, I would like to see ENY set as equal to 1.25 times your side's number percentage of the lowest populated country.
But simultaneously, make bases drastically easier to capture in the face of defense.
Drop troop requirement to 5, reduce town percentage, make auto ack ignore troops.
Fewer ordnance bunkers on bases.
No town resupply.
Increase resupply time for field supplies to 15 minutes.
Post by: bozon on October 10, 2015, 03:20:38 AM
I like the pony. I fly it 99% of the time. but if eny hits then I up a c205. or perhaps a p47. if it goes higher than 30 and that's rarely. I just go watch tv for a few minutes and then it will be back down again.What is wrong with the Pony B? Seems like all Pony fans refuse to fly it, almost as much as the LA7 "fans" refuse to fly the LA5 (at a ridiculously high ENY 30!).
semp
Regarding chess piece loyality. If ENY hits you on regular basis, it means that you need to switch ONCE and be loyal to indifferent piece. If it happens only once in a while - suck it up. It seems to be working on a global scale, except with a very small minority who refuse to get it.
Post by: USRanger on October 10, 2015, 03:48:38 AM
I pretty much quit flying in the MA quite awhile ago, because it seemed I was one of the few not interested in playing Pony Wars. I got so sick of seeing everyone in it, just it's icon would pizz me off. Thank gawd for the Luftwaffe!! :rock
Post by: save on October 10, 2015, 04:56:33 AM
The LA5fn can't even catch a 190A8 at the deck, that's the reason -speed is kills
I wonder if i will meet the most produced 2-gun LA-7 ever in AH ?
Most ridiculous ENY belong to the Mossie Fighter :cool: ENY 30 - 4 bombs 4 nose-mounted Hispanos
What is wrong with the Pony B? Seems like all Pony fans refuse to fly it, almost as much as the LA7 "fans" refuse to fly the LA5 (at a ridiculously high ENY 30!).
Regarding chess piece loyality. If ENY hits you on regular basis, it means that you need to switch ONCE and be loyal to indifferent piece. If it happens only once in a while - suck it up. It seems to be working on a global scale, except with a very small minority who refuse to get it.
Post by: Bruv119 on October 10, 2015, 05:49:54 AM
Post by: Randy1 on October 10, 2015, 06:12:59 AM
But in fact the P-51D is the big killer in the main arena... no other plane kills so much more than it is being killed. It's the dominating plane of the set.
I see your point but it is by use not by threat to make a kill. If it wasn't for P51 runway vulchers like rocky the kill ratio would go down.
The great majority of eny whines comes from p51 people I would think. Well, give them a break and up their eny
Post by: Lusche on October 10, 2015, 06:23:20 AM
If it wasn't for P51 runway vulchers like rocky the kill ratio would go down.
You could say the same for many other planes. Vulching the runways isn't limited to this particular plane. Even more than that, runway vulches make up a much smaller part of the arena kills today than it used to be. The large majority of all plane kills are made in the air.
And I also think you are underrating the combat capabilities of the P-51D. Ease of control, particularly at high speeds, cockpit view, raw speed and a good armament.
ENY reflects both usage as well as impact on the arena and multi purpose capabilities (See the example of the P-47M, which would had gotten ENY 5 instead of 10 if they had chosen to give it ords). All things combined, the D pony really stands out from the crowd. ENY 5 is fully justified.
Post by: Zimme83 on October 10, 2015, 06:25:20 AM
Post by: RufusLeaking on October 10, 2015, 06:27:11 AM
What is wrong with the Pony B? Seems like all Pony fans refuse to fly it, almost as much as the LA7 "fans" refuse to fly the LA5 (at a ridiculously high ENY 30!).Icons at a distance (greater than 800 yards?) are not specific. People treat "LA" planes as LA-7s. Whoever has the stones to engage an LA-7 will usually spank an LA-5.
Same issue for P-51B, Spit Mk1, and to a lesser extent, the lovely P-40C.
(See the example of the P-47M, which would had gotten ENY 5 instead of 10 if they had chosen to give it ords).I thought the P-47N was the P-47M with ords?
Post by: Lusche on October 10, 2015, 06:36:20 AM
I thought the P-47N was the P-47M with ords?
No.
Post by: Xtrepid on October 10, 2015, 07:11:45 AM
ohhhhh another genius. Switch sides.....there is still a side switch timer in place. I can change to the low side and 2 hours later that is the high side.......I cannot switch again.Personally I don't care, but, did you not say you have four accounts?
Think before you post!
Um... wouldn't that allow you to switch to another account, and fly on the side that does not forbid you to fly your Pony D?
:rolleyes:
Of course, I could have missed something... :headscratch:
X :salute
Post by: save on October 10, 2015, 07:35:25 AM
mossies have never hurt anyone no need to fiddle with it's ENY. Infact lower the 190A8's as it is overmodelled! :banana:
Post by: caldera on October 10, 2015, 07:58:29 AM
But in fact the P-51D is the big killer in the main arena... no other plane kills so much more than it is being killed. It's the dominating plane of the set.
Despite some folks assertions that the P-51D is not an outstanding aircraft, what would explain that it has been the undisputed #1 killer in Late War for the past 69 tours? Every tour since 121, the P-51D has been the #1 fighter. Every single tour, without exception, since February 2010. *
* This can be verified using the AH stats page: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/planes.php
Snail, would you be able to make a bar graph of all the fighter kills ever in AH? Bet the P-51D's bar would dwarf all others by a large margin.
Post by: Drano on October 10, 2015, 08:48:14 AM
I just don't grasp why someone would insist on always flying one particular plane, all the time, when we have so many nice ones to choose from.
- oldman
Exactly! I mean if the ENY changes and I can't fly the P-38L, there's always the P-38J! And if things get even worse there's the P-38G!
What's with people?!
Hehe
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Post by: guncrasher on October 10, 2015, 09:57:46 AM
What is wrong with the Pony B? Seems like all Pony fans refuse to fly it, almost as much as the LA7 "fans" refuse to fly the LA5 (at a ridiculously high ENY 30!).
Regarding chess piece loyality. If ENY hits you on regular basis, it means that you need to switch ONCE and be loyal to indifferent piece. If it happens only once in a while - suck it up. It seems to be working on a global scale, except with a very small minority who refuse to get it.
nothing wrong with the ponyb. it flies just like a spit8 but without cannons. so might as well take a spit since it has cannons.
semp
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 10, 2015, 10:14:13 AM
nothing wrong with the ponyb. it flies just like a spit8 but without cannons. so might as well take a spit since it has cannons.
semp
Not really though... the spit 8 is much more versatile. The spit8 makes the pony B look like a fat pig. I really don't see how you could compare the 2 planes as they don't really fly with the same style.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 10, 2015, 10:18:16 AM
Post by: Lusche on October 10, 2015, 10:25:22 AM
Snail, would you be able to make a bar graph of all the fighter kills ever in AH? Bet the P-51D's bar would dwarf all others by a large margin.
That would be easy to do for me, and the P-51D would indead lead that chart.
But a single 'all-time' graph can be quite misleading, as the population wasn't constant over the years and the planeset did change by the addition of planes over time and changes in the flight modeling. (And, to a lesser extend, by changes in the combat environment). F
Post by: FBKampfer on October 10, 2015, 10:25:40 AM
Post by: caldera on October 10, 2015, 10:29:51 AM
IMO, I wish there was more of an incentive to fly harder and older planes in the MA. I'm tired of always fighting against P51Ds, 190Ds, and LA7s. The are obviously the most used and any pilot that knows how to play well will dominate the skies. Sure they are fun to fly on some occasions, but I wish there was a less need to fly the easiest planes in the game for most players, that's just my opinion though.
One way to encourage this might be extending the ENY scale to 60 or even 100.
Post by: caldera on October 10, 2015, 10:31:43 AM
That would be easy to do for me. But a single 'all-time' graph can be quite misleading, as the population wasn't constant over the years and the planeset did change by the addition of planes over time and changes in the flight modeling. (And, to a lesser extend, by changes in the combat environment)
How about just the last five years, then?
Post by: Chris79 on October 10, 2015, 10:44:10 AM
Plane Name Kills Deaths Kill/Death Ratio
A-20G 1062 754 1.41
A6M2 26 57 0.45
A6M3 91 110 0.82
A6M5b 530 638 0.83
Ar 234 63 33 1.85
B-17G 549 1366 0.40
B-24J 331 869 0.38
B-25C 26 166 0.16
B-25H 354 568 0.62
B-26B 292 864 0.34
B-29 45 38 1.15
B5N2 70 41 1.67
Bf 109E-4 19 27 0.68
Bf 109F-4 116 209 0.55
Bf 109G-14 531 453 1.17
Bf 109G-2 52 89 0.58
Bf 109G-6 209 185 1.12
Bf 109K-4 820 658 1.24
Bf 110C-4b 20 22 0.87
Bf 110G-2 633 909 0.70
Boston III 17 83 0.20
Brewster B-239 220 331 0.66
C-47A 20 461 0.04
C.202 5 7 0.62
C.205 243 213 1.14
Chute 143 85 1.66
D3A1 8 17 0.44
F4F-4 59 56 1.04
F4U-1 205 124 1.64
F4U-1A 618 401 1.54
F4U-1C 287 137 2.08
F4U-1D 565 751 0.75
F4U-4 295 98 2.98
F6F-5 671 819 0.82
Fi 156 57 513 0.11
FM2 255 207 1.23
Fw 190A-5 387 365 1.06
Fw 190A-8 845 816 1.03
Fw 190D-9 1541 915 1.68
Fw 190F-8 105 193 0.54
G4M1 Betty 2 57 0.03
Gunner 32 17 1.78
He 111H 11 136 0.08
Hurricane Mk I 5 7 0.62
Hurricane Mk IIC 187 251 0.74
Hurricane Mk IID 32 57 0.55
I-16 34 42 0.79
Il-2 264 285 0.92
Jagdpanther 97 35 2.69
Jagdpanzer 38 1201 1279 0.94
Jagdpanzer IV 183 128 1.42
Jeep 60 385 0.16
Ju 87D-3 30 50 0.59
Ju 87G-2 39 94 0.41
Ju 88 32 179 0.18
Ki-43-II 143 175 0.81
Ki-61-I-Tei 199 155 1.28
Ki-67 80 181 0.44
Ki-84-Ia 1072 778 1.38
La-5FN 273 217 1.25
La-7 1579 1167 1.35
Lancaster III 595 2648 0.22
LVTA2 58 348 0.17
LVTA4 46 174 0.26
M-16 142 352 0.40
M-18 1552 1159 1.34
M-3 392 1905 0.21
M-8 378 796 0.47
M4A3(75) 310 851 0.36
M4A3(76)W 878 566 1.55
Me 163B 104 16 6.12
Me 262 557 88 6.26
Me 410 141 205 0.68
Mosquito Mk VI 461 363 1.27
Mosquito Mk XVI 2 10 0.18
N1K2 1445 1224 1.18
Ostwind 457 454 1.00
P-38G 119 54 2.16
P-38J 395 258 1.53
P-38L 692 901 0.77
P-39D 11 46 0.23
P-39Q 63 80 0.78
P-40C 19 20 0.90
P-40E 21 38 0.54
P-40F 28 29 0.93
P-40N 49 73 0.66
P-47-D11 147 115 1.27
P-47-D25 202 139 1.44
P-47-D40 407 474 0.86
P-47M 978 556 1.76
P-47N 194 370 0.52
P-51B 230 172 1.33
P-51D 2213 1794 1.23
Panther G 3371 746 4.51
Panzer IV F 1180 1586 0.74
Panzer IV H 5482 7837 0.70
PT Boat 100 460 0.22
SBD-5 7 37 0.18
SdKfz 251 3 23 0.12
Sea Hurricane Mk I 48 77 0.62
SeaFire 299 425 0.70
Sherman VC Firefly 282 168 1.67
Ship Gunner 3321 0 3321.00
Spitfire Mk I 5 24 0.20
Spitfire Mk IX 508 513 0.99
Spitfire Mk V 47 85 0.55
Spitfire Mk VIII 595 459 1.29
Spitfire Mk XIV 349 360 0.97
Spitfire Mk XVI 1447 1314 1.10
T-34/76 427 979 0.44
T-34/85 3542 2224 1.59
Ta 152H 469 250 1.87
TBM-3 60 128 0.47
Tempest 456 67 6.71
Tiger 2 495 64 7.62
Tiger I 397 177 2.23
TU-2S 302 1023 0.29
Typhoon IB 620 416 1.49
Wirbelwind 3184 2320 1.37
Yak-3 894 794 1.12
Yak-7B 44 52 0.83
Yak-9T 122 167 0.73
Yak-9U 251 157 1.59
Totals 59533 59533 1.00
There seems to be a few higher eny planes that have a higher kill to death ratio then the pony and la7
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 10, 2015, 11:00:00 AM
Chris, It's because newer pilots fly those planes and they tend to die more often. The P51D already has 2000+ kills which is substantially more than any other plane. The 190D also has a relatively high K/D with many kills.
I'd also like to add that just because a plane is good, doesn't mean the pilot is, and planes like the spitfire, although deadly, are difficult to land kills in because most pilots don't fly the spit BnZ style, and they can't dive away from a fight like the 190D can.
Post by: Masherbrum on October 10, 2015, 12:50:34 PM
ENY - A great concept. I understand the intent and I agree with it.
HOWEVER.....it causes people to leave the game because they cannot fly the plane they want. Anyone who thinks ENY is not an issue, spend some time logged in when ENY is in full force.....just log in and look at the chat buffer.
I do not know the answer. My personal preference is no ENY ever.
I was advised by another player tonight that I should embrace EW and MW planes and ENY would not be an issue. I understand and accept the approach.....BUT...I want to fly a P51. It really is a simple as that. When you take that away from me I log off. Is it that hard to understand??????
ENY never affected me, as I was proficient in various airframes. But I always chuckled when folks like yourself scream at your monitor as you have to look at your ride in the hangar.
Post by: 49Dallas on October 10, 2015, 01:01:01 PM
As much as I hate switching sides. I HATE that people who switch, Mainly to know what's going on like they can see that were gearing up for an attack/mission or they know where CVs are.
Post by: Masherbrum on October 10, 2015, 01:05:01 PM
What if you took away the six hour rule if you were switching to a side that had fewer guys? like 10% fewer?
As much as I hate switching sides. I HATE that people who switch, Mainly to know what's going on like they can see that were gearing up for an attack/mission or they know where CVs are.
This is simply hogwash. The majority of those who switch, do so because the fighting is better. The "zOMFG SPIZ" is overblown in the argument against ENY.
Post by: Randy1 on October 10, 2015, 01:09:21 PM
Maybe a modifier could be used. If ENY restrictions come into play, restrict the number of P51s available to each player by time. A WAG would be one per hour as an example. I know this might limit engagements with eny restricted P51s but that would have a similar effect of full restricted eny planes. May be doggone hard to program into AH.
The point is, a compromise might be in order.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 10, 2015, 01:30:02 PM
This is simply hogwash. The majority of those who switch, do so because the fighting is better. The "zOMFG SPIZ" is overblown in the argument against ENY.
Haha foreal, as of lately, if you switch to the bish, you will be having fights up to your neck for hours.
Post by: Changeup on October 10, 2015, 02:47:11 PM
All those in favor of the ENY model will receive a topless, bouncing, gif, BBS avatars approved by me. :salute
Problem solved.
Please begin immediately PMing all of your selections so I can begin the approval process.
Dale and Skuzzy, I will forward any unacceptable or marginal submissions to both of you for your consideration. We only need beauties in here, right?
Post by: Vraciu on October 10, 2015, 03:08:07 PM
Well if you want a simple answer. When ENY kicks in and I cannot fly what I prefer I am going to log off.
I cannot believe I am the only one. Hitech has already stated that more logged off without ENY than with it so he has made that choice. My choice is to log off.
I do the same.
I also fly when numbers are low and have seen ENY destroy some great rolling battles that were fun for both sides.
The P-51D is way overvalued on an ENY basis as I see it. I concur with that assessment by a previous poster.
Post by: Vraciu on October 10, 2015, 03:14:01 PM
(stupid guy voice) How many times has that particular scenario actually happened? Be honest.
Specifically, how many times have the numbers reversed so much that side A had 51s locked, you switched to side B and two hours later, side B had 51s locked?
It has happened many times. I have been there on many occasions with Fess. We switched to the low side and half an hour later the tables have flipped. Logoff.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 10, 2015, 03:15:25 PM
I do the same.
I also fly when numbers are low and have seen ENY destroy some great rolling battles that were fun for both sides.
The P-51D is way overvalued on an ENY basis as I see it. I concur that assessment by a previous poster.
Not really, the plane is capable of almost anything in this game. You haven't played the game long enough IMO to make that assessment. When you see what TonyJoey puts up when he flies the P51 you'd realize that it actually is a very incredible plane in AH, as it was in real life as well. The only thing IMO that makes the plane imperfect is the 6 50 calls. Other than that, the plane is uncatchable and unstopable in most cases in the MA.
Post by: Lusche on October 10, 2015, 03:15:27 PM
How about just the last five years, then?
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/fighetr%20a2a11-15_zpsz3ngze19.jpg)
Perked rides with their considrable higher K/Ds are far off the right. They all have comparatively little usage.
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/kills-deatsh%2011-15_zpsixpiqkve.jpg)
With both charts, only A2A kills & deaths did count.
As said before, that ENY is not just about plain usage or air to air success, but also raw performance aspects and most importantly, multirole capability.
ENY values also fulfill two functions in the arena, one determining the perks gained in combat and second as a limiter for balance purposes (which sometimes leads to odd results, giving you much more perks for shooting down a rather helpless Lancaster than a B-17).
Post by: Vraciu on October 10, 2015, 03:18:55 PM
Yea that was one of our ideas that we decided we would not do again.
HiTech
Dump EW and MW and throw an RPS up in its place?
I enjoyed RPS. Was a blast. But I know that's a minority view.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 10, 2015, 03:23:07 PM
Add a perk cost the eny value as the #s differentiate. So that way people can fly their favourite planes, but they have to pay a perk cost since the #s are off!
Post by: guncrasher on October 10, 2015, 03:24:23 PM
Not really though... the spit 8 is much more versatile. The spit8 makes the pony B look like a fat pig. I really don't see how you could compare the 2 planes as they don't really fly with the same style.
just a matter of opinion.
semp
Post by: Vraciu on October 10, 2015, 03:29:15 PM
Not really, the plane is capable of almost anything in this game. You haven't played the game long enough IMO to make that assessment. When you see what TonyJoey puts up when he flies the P51 you'd realize that it actually is a very incredible plane in AH, as it was in real life as well. The only thing IMO that makes the plane imperfect is the 6 50 calls. Other than that, the plane is uncatchable and unstopable in most cases in the MA.
If the Dora is a 12 then Pony is at worst a 10.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 10, 2015, 03:41:05 PM
If the Dora is a 12 then Pony is at worst a 10.
The Dora should be lower. The P51 is much more versatile in terms of performance, flight characteristics, Ord, gas, you name it. It's a much better plane.
Post by: caldera on October 10, 2015, 05:17:05 PM
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/fighetr%20a2a11-15_zpsz3ngze19.jpg)
Perked rides with their considrable higher K/Ds are far off the right. They all have comparatively little usage.
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/kills-deatsh%2011-15_zpsixpiqkve.jpg)
With both charts, only A2A kills & deaths did count.
As said before, that ENY is not just about plain usage or air to air success, but also raw performance aspects and most importantly, multirole capability.
ENY values also fulfill two functions in the arena, one determining the perks gained in combat and second as a limiter for balance purposes (which sometimes leads to odd results, giving you much more perks for shooting down a rather helpless Lancaster than a B-17).
Thank you for putting that together, sir. :cheers:
With the exception (just barely) of two uber planes, the 51D has double or more (or a lot more) the usage of every fighter in the game.
Nothing remarkable about that at all. ;)
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 10, 2015, 05:52:25 PM
just a matter of opinion.
semp
No its not :neener:
Post by: BaldEagl on October 10, 2015, 06:23:34 PM
Maybe a modifier could be used. If ENY restrictions come into play, restrict the number of P51s available to each player by time. A WAG would be one per hour as an example.
That would just exacerbate timidity and running.
Post by: bustr on October 10, 2015, 06:57:48 PM
I suspect from Hitech's answers about ENY he can chart that over time. It wouldn't be any different than logging Windows OS or SQL performance counters for him. He probably set ENY to log itself originally to protect against killing his business if it was a bad decision. Then he probably combines same time frame MA population activity statistics to see correlations to ENY's real effect on log offs and or account cancellations each tour.
Aside from the ongoing complaints since ENY's inception and the forum circuses inspired by them. Hitech's answers have been based on a knowledge set we are not privy to. So far his answers don't sound like his data is showing him a problem. And chances are just like the 12 hour side switch reset to 6 hours without our notice. I doubt he will tell us if or when he makes tweeks to ENY. But eliminate it entirely, maybe if everyone in this post cancels their accounts over it with all of their friends and squad mates following them.
Statistically there will be a minority of the player base who will dislike something and logoff over it, or even cancel their subscription. But, that will not mean anything needs to be changed. Until you guys have access to Hitech's logs, this is like religious sects arguing the end of times because the Spanish Flu broke out.
Post by: Delirium on October 10, 2015, 07:01:35 PM
I HATE that people who switch, Mainly to know what's going on like they can see that were gearing up for an attack/mission or they know where CVs are.
Do you have any examples?
Post by: bustr on October 10, 2015, 07:52:17 PM
Other players run several accounts they pay for at the same time. We had a pig with us for awhile who flew a second account on knights with a box of bombers for very long missions he checked on periodically while taking part in piggy activities.
And just like my roommate and I in AW playing with our PC's side by side on the same desk on two different countries, in passing I heard two players did that a few years back in this game. When my roommate and I played on the same side, we made a very effective wing pair.
Maybe after 15 years it's time for Hitech to create a forum named: I Want to Gripe with no Basis in Reality.
Post by: Changeup on October 10, 2015, 08:05:03 PM
Do you have any examples?
No, he doesn't. He'll make them up though :aok :rofl :banana:
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 11, 2015, 09:14:04 AM
I've got it Hitech!
Add a perk cost the eny value as the #s differentiate. So that way people can fly their favourite planes, but they have to pay a perk cost since the #s are off!
My solution that was looked over. I think this could work
Post by: Vraciu on October 11, 2015, 09:43:37 AM
My solution that was looked over. I think this could work
I never fly perk planes, so at least this way I could get my Pony out of the barn for late night trail rides.
Post by: hitech on October 11, 2015, 11:25:42 AM
I've got it Hitech!
Add a perk cost the eny value as the #s differentiate. So that way people can fly their favourite planes, but they have to pay a perk cost since the #s are off!
Strange how all suggestions have one thing in common, they want to make it less painful and hence less effective.
That's not the goal.
HiTech
Post by: guncrasher on October 11, 2015, 01:03:52 PM
No its not :neener:
it is. I have been told many times that I fly the pony sometimes as if it was a spit. trust me, I have flown spits for a long time. the ponyb you can fly it just like a spit and annoy the heck out of somebody.
semp
Post by: FBKampfer on October 11, 2015, 01:18:30 PM
Strange how all suggestions have one thing in common, they want to make it less painful and hence less effective.
That's not the goal.
HiTech
Then take my suggestion and up the ante. Frankly, it doesn't seem to encourage side changing, and unless you forcibly shuffle people with each map rotation, I don't think it ever will.
But it could work as a handicap to keep overall capability roughly equal.
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 11, 2015, 05:52:33 PM
Easy solution: change ENY to a Perk Penalty, and have it increase in some exponent to the relative ENY.I have posted about ENY and tower sitters and got many of the same responses as most of these. I really like KATANASO'S suggestion here and no one commented on it. The perk price for 262's and other rides fluctuate already so why not lower ENY scored planes when eny is in effect? That makes perfect sense to me and may squash most of the usual gripes on this topic. I am still learning this game and don't mind flying high ENY planes at all but I do like to fly low ENY planes. Yes its usually after I get tired of getting killed a lot and think the low ENY bird will help me out :uhoh Doesn't always help but it does make it seem fairer! :banana: I can count on one hand the number of 262s and B-29's I have used perks to fly but I would definitely pay perks to fly a P-51 over a P-40 when ENY is in effect. Some may still want to fly the "UN Perked" higher eny planes but those that want too can use perks to fly their planes. I see it no different than someone using perks to fly 262s in non eny conditions. After all it is about having fun your way, is it not? I would like to see some discussion about this idea.
Want to fly a 5 ENY plane, and the ENY is set at 10, it costs xx number of perks.
For the other sides, if they shoot you down, they earn a bonus in perk points.
ENY doesn't really affect me. On the instances where ENY prevented me from taking a 51D or La7, I took a 51B or La5. But it's not about me. :)
Post by: Delirium on October 11, 2015, 07:49:31 PM
Strange how all suggestions have one thing in common, they want to make it less painful and hence less effective.
That's not the goal.
If you want to make it more penalizing, I'm all for that. I would recommend the following (in order of severity);
1. Double the existing penalties but still recognize the fact the numbers get very light in the early am off peak times.
2. Enable a zone ENY system. So player A could still log on and fly with his squad but it would encourage him to fly away from the friendlies if he wants to fly something late war. Alternatively, if player B wanted to fly with his horde he would not be able to fly a late war plane, and if the horde is bad enough it will prevent low ENY aircraft even though their country is outnumbered. This will also have the added bonus of affecting large missions and make them less popular.
Employ these two and you will have a change gameplay over night.
Post by: Crash Orange on October 11, 2015, 08:09:51 PM
If you want to make it more penalizing, I'm all for that. I would recommend the following (in order of severity);
1. Double the existing penalties but still recognize the fact the numbers get very light in the early am off peak times.
2. Enable a zone ENY system. So player A could still log on and fly with his squad but it would encourage him to fly away from the friendlies if he wants to fly something late war. Alternatively, if player B wanted to fly with his horde he would not be able to fly a late war plane, and if the horde is bad enough it will prevent low ENY aircraft even though their country is outnumbered. This will also have the added bonus of affecting large missions and make them less popular.
Employ these two and you will have a change gameplay over night.
Definitely, but one more is needed: make ENY determined by the number in flight, not the number logged on. Late at night the people who have gone AFK for 20 hours without logging off become much more of a factor because they can outnumber the people actually playing. You'll have one side have a 25 ENY even though it has 20-25% of the people actually playing.
Better yet, just turn ENY off after 1 a.m. Central. I don't think it has any positive effects whatsoever during the graveyard shift. Mostly it just causes people to log. This is not a plus for the low-numbered side because it just makes a huge, empty map that much emptier.
Post by: Karnak on October 11, 2015, 09:05:21 PM
2. Enable a zone ENY system. So player A could still log on and fly with his squad but it would encourage him to fly away from the friendlies if he wants to fly something late war. Alternatively, if player B wanted to fly with his horde he would not be able to fly a late war plane, and if the horde is bad enough it will prevent low ENY aircraft even though their country is outnumbered. This will also have the added bonus of affecting large missions and make them less popular.This would not work to limit things like P-51Ds being used by the side with numbers where the fighting is concentrated, but it would make people more timid with their P-51Ds, or other low ENY rides, than they already are.
As evidence I submit a Combat Theater setting from many years ago. It was supposed to represent the end of 1942 in the Pacific, so the guys who set it up wanted the F4U to be available in limited numbers. So they only made the F4U available at the base furthest from the Japanese with the intention being that most of the fighting would be A6M2s vs F4F-4s. What actually happened is that most Allied players chose to fly the long distance down in F4Us rather than use the readily available F4Fs. It was so bad that the F4U had to be removed from the scenario.
The same would happen in the MA.
Post by: Oldman731 on October 11, 2015, 09:18:22 PM
As evidence I submit a Combat Theater setting from many years ago. It was supposed to represent the end of 1942 in the Pacific, so the guys who set it up wanted the F4U to be available in limited numbers. So they only made the F4U available at the base furthest from the Japanese with the intention being that most of the fighting would be A6M2s vs F4F-4s. What actually happened is that most Allied players chose to fly the long distance down in F4Us rather than use the readily available F4Fs.
Heh. I remember that.
A large portion of AH people will pay virtually any price to have what they consider to be either their favorite, or the superior, plane. In AvA we saw that all the time; you could have a D-Day setup, or a Bulge setup, whatever, and if any Spitfire were enabled, everyone on the Allied side would fly Spitfires. As at least one of the posters in this thread has already remarked, there are plenty of people who will willingly pay perk prices to fly, for example, P-51Ds. The perk penalty would not solve the imbalance problem.
- oldman
Post by: Bruv119 on October 12, 2015, 02:29:45 AM
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 12, 2015, 03:51:37 AM
Post by: Randy1 on October 12, 2015, 07:26:06 AM
Post by: Lusche on October 12, 2015, 07:43:28 AM
What about going a different direction? Ease the eny restrictions but greatly increase equation that calculates the perk rewards for a higher eny plane killing a 10 and below plane while greatly reducing perk rewards for kills using a low eny plane.
That would not really limit or balance anything, players (by large), would still take the 'better' ride. You already get 36 times more perks for killing a Spit 16 in a 109F than for doing the opposite.
Players who happily bail after dropping bombs or suicide their fighter into a single radar tower for maximum 'efficiency' in the war game don't give a damn about score or their own perk gains.
The carrot has it's limits, sometimes it's gotta be the stick ;)
Post by: Vinkman on October 12, 2015, 09:56:55 AM
..but it does create a lot of grief.
It's just a whine generator. It should be removed from the game. :salute
Post by: Lusche on October 12, 2015, 10:36:01 AM
ENY solves nothing....
..but it does create a lot of grief.
It's just a whine generator. It should be removed from the game. :salute
So you are willing to trade relatively few whines against a lot more whines? ;)
Post by: bustr on October 12, 2015, 12:16:08 PM
Heh. I remember that.
A large portion of AH people will pay virtually any price to have what they consider to be either their favorite, or the superior, plane. In AvA we saw that all the time; you could have a D-Day setup, or a Bulge setup, whatever, and if any Spitfire were enabled, everyone on the Allied side would fly Spitfires. As at least one of the posters in this thread has already remarked, there are plenty of people who will willingly pay perk prices to fly, for example, P-51Ds. The perk penalty would not solve the imbalance problem.
- oldman
When Waystin was an AvA CM he would promise one night of his piggies to shoot at for numbers in the AvA each week. He would require us piggies to fly the crap planes with him. With a few exceptions "Everyone" flew the other side with the uber rides. The AvA teaches you a lot about the WW2 aviation arms race in a very personal manner. The challenge grew stale after the uber riders change to HO and zooming because it didn't turn out as easy to mow down a herd of piggy vets in garbage rides. Around the time at the end of the evening Waystin would cut us loose to fly the uber rides, the AvA became a cricket farm. We piggies were a tiny bit teed off by that point from bending over and taking it for the team to try and get numbers into the AvA. Most people are stick swingers, not pain lovers.
No one wants to be a whipping boy, especially having to pay for the privilege. The current most used strategy in this generation of the MA to avoid the whipping is speed, power, and HOing vs. turning ability from the AH1 days. Or the muppet school of ACM during that MA generation. I kind of miss them now along with the original Devil's Brigade who we all renamed the vTards.
ENY or No ENY, the situational "whipped boys" will complain about their $14.95 being wasted by Hitech just like the OP started this post to defend his anti-whipped boy solution from ENY.
No one likes loosing.
Post by: Randy1 on October 12, 2015, 12:38:08 PM
That would not really limit or balance anything, players (by large), would still take the 'better' ride. You already get 36 times more perks for killing a Spit 16 in a 109F than for doing the opposite.
Players who happily bail after dropping bombs or suicide their fighter into a single radar tower for maximum 'efficiency' in the war game don't give a damn about score or their own perk gains.
The carrot has it's limits, sometimes it's gotta be the stick ;)
Good point Lusche.
Maybe super high perks for the kill of eny restricted plane. Make it so high it is worth hunting down planes like a P-51D when the they are eny restricted. Kind of like bounty hunters. You would know when perk levels are high enough when 200 and PMs start thinking restricted plane flyers for all the perks. Maybe a fixed, add on bonus for killing an eny restricted plane. It has to be high enough to make it doggone irritating to give so many perks.
I support the eny system but there must be a way to give the P-51D boys and girls what they want.
Post by: pembquist on October 12, 2015, 01:37:37 PM
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 12, 2015, 01:39:29 PM
I just don't grasp why someone would insist on always flying one particular plane, all the time, when we have so many nice ones to choose from.
- oldman
Maybe one finds one particular plane more enjoyable to fly over the rest of the plane set. One doesn't have to fly every single plane in the MA to have fun, just like people shouldn't really concern themselves what other players fly.
ack-ack
Post by: Yankee67 on October 12, 2015, 02:29:00 PM
Contrast that with doing away with ENY: providing one country the ability to pound the low-number country 24 on 8 (numbers like that happen every single day) in low ENY rides. That doesn't seem like a reasonable gaming scenario for all involved to me. At least not one worth paying for.
I say the ENY system as it stands today produces as reasonable a gaming experience as it can, for all involved, given the way the game is set up. Don't touch it.
Post by: Randy1 on October 12, 2015, 02:42:26 PM
Post by: Yankee67 on October 12, 2015, 03:04:14 PM
Post by: The Fugitive on October 12, 2015, 03:58:39 PM
I know this is a shallow response, but if you're devoted to one low-ENY plane, then move over to a country where you can fly it if ENY rears its head. If you're devoted to one chess piece, then deal with the ENY when your numerical advantage cranks up. Having both (low ENY rides, plus a numerical advantage) doesn't seem like the answer. My advice would be to pick the one thing that's most fun or important to you, and give on the other.
That is all well and good, switching sides to fly the plane you want, but what happens an hour later when those low numbers have had another shift by only a few players logging off from one side, and logging in on another? Stuck for 4 more hours not being able to switch nor fly your favorite plane.
Post by: Wizz on October 12, 2015, 05:30:19 PM
That is all well and good, switching sides to fly the plane you want, but what happens an hour later when those low numbers have had another shift by only a few players logging off from one side, and logging in on another? Stuck for 4 more hours not being able to switch nor fly your favorite plane.One of the many reason I fly buffs full time!!! and when im not its just for fun :cheers:
Post by: FESS67 on October 12, 2015, 05:56:03 PM
This is not about having to ride the fast uber planes to make sure I can stay safe, it is about a preference. I am not crying or rage quitting and threatening to pull my subs. I have an opinion about ENY and I chose to raise it in the forum. I could easily get into another plane and fly that, I just prefer to fly the 51D and if you care to ask around I am more than willing to fight in it.
Your assessment of me and why I posted is way off the mark. If you cannot be nice then how about you don't post!
Post by: Oldman731 on October 12, 2015, 08:26:01 PM
One doesn't have to fly every single plane in the MA to have fun, just like people shouldn't really concern themselves what other players fly.
Agreed. But we were discussing the people who said they would not fly at all if they could not fly one, and only one, ride.
- oldman
Post by: amp on October 12, 2015, 10:24:14 PM
Maybe one finds one particular plane more enjoyable to fly over the rest of the plane set. One doesn't have to fly every single plane in the MA to have fun, just like people shouldn't really concern themselves what other players fly.
ack-ack
Wow! You finally said something I agree with. :aok
Few things feel as nice as sitting in a mighty MK VIII, flying around wonderring why so many fly inferior aeroplanes. ENY does force me into the mighty MK IX, on occasion, but it's a worthy second choice.
May each of us always be able to fly our aeroplane of choice. :old:
I would rather switch country than to pry my fingers off of my mighty MK VIII. :old:
That brings up the side switching issue, but that's for another thread and time. :bhead
:airplane: :joystick: :banana:
Post by: Bruv119 on October 13, 2015, 07:12:49 AM
Post by: Dundee on October 13, 2015, 01:46:29 PM
ENY - A great concept. I understand the intent and I agree with it.
HOWEVER.....it causes people to leave the game because they cannot fly the plane they want. Anyone who thinks ENY is not an issue, spend some time logged in when ENY is in full force.....just log in and look at the chat buffer.
I do not know the answer. My personal preference is no ENY ever.
I was advised by another player tonight that I should embrace EW and MW planes and ENY would not be an issue. I understand and accept the approach.....BUT...I want to fly a P51.
It really is a simple as that. When you take that away from me I log off. Is it that hard to understand??????
No Not at all.........Oh and by the way people in hell want Ice Water.......
Post by: Skyyr on October 13, 2015, 08:20:41 PM
... the mighty MK IX ...
:aok
Welcome back!
Post by: bozon on October 14, 2015, 07:30:02 AM
Wow! You finally said something I agree with. :aokThe plane-dedicated crowd (I am one of them by the way) have the option to switch to a higher ENY model of their plane or switch sides. There are very few high or moderately high ENY models without a high ENY alternative. We have spits, 109s, 190s, p38s, p47s, p51s, LA and Yaks model series that span a wide range in ENY.
Few things feel as nice as sitting in a mighty MK VIII, flying around wonderring why so many fly inferior aeroplanes. ENY does force me into the mighty MK IX, on occasion, but it's a worthy second choice.
May each of us always be able to fly our aeroplane of choice. :old:
I would rather switch country than to pry my fingers off of my mighty MK VIII. :old:
That brings up the side switching issue, but that's for another thread and time. :bhead
:airplane: :joystick: :banana:
If someone is such a huge fan of the La7 (p51d) with 3 cannons (6 0.5s) that he cannot possibly fly the poss 2 cannons La5 (4 0.5s p51b) and is too chess piece loyal to switch - well, he has a problem.
Post by: Randy1 on October 14, 2015, 10:57:16 AM
I still like the bounty idea when eny restrictions apply. Maybe make their icon blue to indicate a bounty will be paid in perks for the downing of an eny restricted plane. Maybe even neater, have the bounty be paid by the player who choose an eny restricted plane. I am thinking like a 5 perk, bonus. Maybe 10.
I know this may not be practical but interesting anyway.
Post by: bozon on October 14, 2015, 11:45:45 AM
Bozon, it still gets back to being able to choose what plane you want in a pay to play game.No, it gets down to a specific model (always the latest and greatest, except the spit 14) of the plane.
Hey! I'm a P51D-5 fan and I won't fly the P51B that just pretend to be 95% as good as the D. Those 5% make it a total pos, and besides, it is ugly.
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 14, 2015, 11:52:58 AM
ENY correlates with side switching. You have to balance them so that all players can enjoy the game without making it too big of a deal, especially during off hours.
Post by: ASBATT on October 14, 2015, 12:18:05 PM
Post by: bustr on October 14, 2015, 01:37:28 PM
Post by: Vinkman on October 14, 2015, 01:46:49 PM
So you are willing to trade relatively few whines against a lot more whines? ;)
I think it will be the other way around. ENY tries to address teh "Hey we're being hoarded" whine as if players being hoarded will not whine about being hoarded because they are being hoarded by P-40. I think no reduction in hoarding whine is produced by the effectof ENY.
New whine is introduced "Hey I hate ENY I can't fly my La7"
So no loss in Hoarding Whine + New Whine = more whining. Not less. :salute :)
Post by: Lusche on October 14, 2015, 01:48:51 PM
Post by: save on October 14, 2015, 06:04:58 PM
I think it will be the other way around. ENY tries to address teh "Hey we're being hoarded" whine as if players being hoarded will not whine about being hoarded because they are being hoarded by P-40. I think no reduction in hoarding whine is produced by the effectof ENY.
New whine is introduced "Hey I hate ENY I can't fly my La7"
So no loss in Hoarding Whine + New Whine = more whining. Not less. :salute :)
Post by: Yankee67 on October 14, 2015, 06:31:16 PM
I think it will be the other way around. ENY tries to address teh "Hey we're being hoarded" whine as if players being hoarded will not whine about being hoarded because they are being hoarded by P-40. I think no reduction in hoarding whine is produced by the effectof ENY.
New whine is introduced "Hey I hate ENY I can't fly my La7"
So no loss in Hoarding Whine + New Whine = more whining. Not less. :salute :)
Hold the phone. Your math is wrong. It should be:
{1 + OldWhinex(Hoarding^ENY/(1+Hoarding))}/NewWhine < $14.95
Post by: FBKampfer on October 16, 2015, 05:02:02 AM
Hold the phone. Your math is wrong. It should be:
{1 + OldWhinex(Hoarding^ENY/(1+Hoarding))}/NewWhine < $14.95
Your mathematical notation is incorrect, by the way.
Post by: Vinkman on October 16, 2015, 02:02:09 PM
Hold the phone. Your math is wrong. It should be:
{1 + OldWhinex(Hoarding^ENY/(1+Hoarding))}/NewWhine < $14.95
:aok :rofl
Post by: Shuffler on October 18, 2015, 12:35:45 PM
ENY - A great concept. I understand the intent and I agree with it.
HOWEVER.....it causes people to leave the game because they cannot fly the plane they want. Anyone who thinks ENY is not an issue, spend some time logged in when ENY is in full force.....just log in and look at the chat buffer.
I do not know the answer. My personal preference is no ENY ever.
I was advised by another player tonight that I should embrace EW and MW planes and ENY would not be an issue. I understand and accept the approach.....BUT...I want to fly a P51. It really is a simple as that. When you take that away from me I log off. Is it that hard to understand??????
Just even up teams and your set. If you do not want to do that then log off. That helps the game.