Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: republic on February 29, 2008, 10:55:44 AM
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I'm 26, I've been a Christian for about 10 years now. The older I get the more frustrating it can be to remain steadfast in the midst of the great multitude of Christians 'in name only' and the general trials of life.
Some of you gents who are older in the faith, what scripture do you lean on when all else fails?
For me it would be:
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths.
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Hell most of the time I feel like GOD is beating me with the watermelon end of the stick and Jesus is holding me down saying "Don't get up."
I rely upon GODs sense of humor..how else do you explain the Giraffe?
Mac
I'm 50 almost halfway thru the whipping.
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When things get heavy, I'll read a little Emerson or Nietzsche and get that much needed inspiration from the Great Ronnie Johns. Harden the **** up. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y) :D
In all seriousness, if Christianity isn't cutting it for you, try some eastern philosophy. Same means, slightly different end.
Godspeed.
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Originally posted by republic
I'm 26, I've been a Christian for about 10 years now. The older I get the more frustrating it can be to remain steadfast in the midst of the great multitude of Christians 'in name only' and the general trials of life.
Some of you gents who are older in the faith, what scripture do you lean on when all else fails?
For me it would be:
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths.
Hehe, the only words in your post which make sense to me, are "trials of life".
If your trial is unsuccessful at first, you learn something out of it and try again.
Looks like that proverb was written for Frenchies ( :D ). "If you fail, surrender and/or wait somebody's bail you out..."
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Isn't there a statement somewhere in the bible to the effect of, "God helps those who help themselves?"
I've never really understood the irony of the personal and individual nature of faith, and yet millions willingly submit to the group interpretation of organized religion, and thus allow one or a few others decide for them what to believe. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by AWMac
I rely upon GODs sense of humor..how else do you explain the Giraffe?
Evolution.
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Aaaaaaaaand the flame war begins in 5...4...3...2...1...
:D
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thy hast posted upon thine internet with thine own computer. Thy must now await the replies of the multitude for thine answer.
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"Thought crime does not lead to death. Thought crime is death."
G. Orwell
"Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths.
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Try to do more good than bad, everyday is a new day,if you woke up this morning there must be something for you to do thats more important than the last thing you did!
do a good deed every time you get the chance, even if you benefit from it someone still benefited as well! dont worry to much about the lord, he will be fine
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God helps those that help themselves~Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac (1733)
Help thyself and God will help thee~George Herbert, Jacula Prudentum (1640).
Use your own hand instead of calling upon fortune~Plutarch, Moralia: Customs of the Spartans (c. AD 95)
The gods do help the doer~Erasmus (1545)
God cannot give us any other than self-help~Thoreau, Autumn (1840).
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Wow ya....ok. Silly me thinking I could get constructive responses.
Bye bye thread.
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Originally posted by republic
Some of you gents who are older, what wisdom do you lean on when all else fails?
"This too shall pass"
"Judge not and ye shall not be judged"
"Forgive the unforgivable"
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I don't rely on a particular verse, but prayer and meditation.
As a Christian you would want to avoid eastern mysticism, but don't forget that there is a very strong western tradition of prayer and meditation that is often overlooked these days. I think in our modern/post-modern culture we have also tended to compartmentalize our faith, not making it a central part of our lives, like it used to be.
You may want to consider praying some of the daily offices, you don't have to be a monk (or Catholic) to do them. There are some good basic brevaries for layity just for that, so you won't be ovewhelmed with all the details of the full office. PM me if you wish more details on finding one, and I will dig up some links. (I am at work right now so my resources are limited).
If you are interested in something deeper, I can also recommend "Introduction to the Devout Life" by St. Francis DeSales, or "The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius", available at Amazon.com rather inexpensively. "The Cloud of Unknowing" is also good, but I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner, as it can be hard to understand.
I of course, have nothing against scripture, far from it! These things are in addition to study of scripture. In fact the study of scripture can be in itself a form of meditation (Lectio Divina).
But there is so much more depth to our faith than many are taught these days, and the tools to reach it are readily available.
I hope this helps a little.
John Nelson
p/OCB
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When the going gets tough, I turn to tough love.
Numbers 15:32-36
Now while the Children of Israel were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then the Lord said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses.
There's ALWAYS someone doing something on the Sabbath. Just look out your window, and gather your stones.
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Originally posted by republic
I'm 26, I've been a Christian for about 10 years now. The older I get the more frustrating it can be to remain steadfast in the midst of the great multitude of Christians 'in name only' and the general trials of life.
Repub,
Hope this helps. My whole outlook underwent a drastic revision. For the better! I began reading everything I could in Britannica on Christianity, history of, monasticism, etc . . .. All the history I could find.
Opened up some wonderful doors all of which are licit and orthodox.
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Knowing the actual history as opposed to dogma definitely gives you a new outlook on the "We're the one true church!" interdenominational pissing match.
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Blackwolf, why would his Christianity preclude researching eastern philosophies?
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15:32-36
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That is one of the passages that convinced me I could never be a Christian.
Was a rather disappointing epiphany for me as I was in the mood for salvation at the time. But I instinctively understood that a Lord that wants to stone people to death for gathering firewood is not a Lord I want to associate with. I rather imagine thats what it must feel like having an abusive father :cry
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Heretic! Stone him!
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Serves me right.
My grandma always told me, never discuss religion or politics in public, it's not polite... If only I listened to her better....
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Even worse most of those Christian wannabes are flying LA-7s. You should be relying on all the scriptures and forgiving others for their weaknesses. Even better you should lead by example, as the Lord did, and be less quick with judgements.
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Lead by example. Drown the entire world if they don't do what you want them to do.
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Rich46yo is right, fly A6Ms more often. ;)
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Eastern mysticism is not Christian. I was, of course, not refering to the Eastern Orthodox church, but rather Bhudism, Hinduism, etc.
He was asking for Christian references, and someone had posted that he look to eastern mysticism instead. I was pointing out that the Christian church has a strong mystical/meditative heritage of it's own.
The eastern religions have been attempting to make (sadly, quite succesfully in some cases) inroads into the Christian church, along with the "new age" (though there is nothing "new" about it) Gnosticism. The scriptures are very clear in their warnings against such things. None of these attempts are new, the warnings in scripture are there because of the very same thing being attempted in the early church, not only by those outside the church, but also within.
With the scriptures, traditions, and faith handed down to us by the church fathers, we have the fullness of the truth, there is no need to look outside for it.
John Nelson
p/OCB
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Originally posted by Blackwulf
we have the fullness of the truth
“I reject your reality and substitute it for my own.”~Adam Savage
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lol Kong!
I see the humor of your retort, and despite as stuffy as my writing style can make me seem, I fully support the right of anyone to believe what they wish, and would hope that I would receive the same in return.
(And my Orthodoxy does come out quite a bit in these sort of discussions I admit.)
John Nelson
p/OCB
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Originally posted by Blackwulf
Eastern mysticism is not Christian. I was, of course, not refering to the Eastern Orthodox church, but rather Bhudism, Hinduism, etc.
He was asking for Christian references, and someone had posted that he look to eastern mysticism instead. I was pointing out that the Christian church has a strong mystical/meditative heritage of it's own.
The eastern religions have been attempting to make (sadly, quite succesfully in some cases) inroads into the Christian church, along with the "new age" (though there is nothing "new" about it) Gnosticism. The scriptures are very clear in their warnings against such things. None of these attempts are new, the warnings in scripture are there because of the very same thing being attempted in the early church, not only by those outside the church, but also within.
With the scriptures, traditions, and faith handed down to us by the church fathers, we have the fullness of the truth, there is no need to look outside for it.
John Nelson
p/OCB
Unless I'm mistaken, most of the Christian churches have embraced the practice of encouraging study of other faiths (like Buddhism) so that adherents may better understand their own and find new meaning in their bible. I've read article by missionaries, for instance, that describe the value that studying some of these other religions gives because, among other things, it equips them to better understand others and dialogue with them in a meaningful way.
I'm troubled by what I perceive to be an exclusionist tone to your message, one that seems to suggest essentially "if it isn't in the bible, it isn't worth knowing". If that's an oversimplification, I apologize for any unintentional offense, but this seems to be a limiting world view.
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I generally don't discuss my faith out of respect for others. (This being my first post concerning it in the 2 years of playing this game.) If I'm asked, I'll respond but most people, as evident from these replies, have either been scorned by "Christians" or have intense feelings regarding faith of any sort.
I was looking for input for a study I am putting together and I had wrongly assumed there was a higher percentage of people of faith in these forums simply because of the generally higher average age of the typical AH player.
As much as I wish I had the ability to close the topic, and as much as I had hoped it would die quickly...it likely will remain and become an irritating constant reminder to my inbox.
So all I'm unsubscribing the thread, if you have a particular verse you'd like to share, PM me.
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"What if we chose the wrong religion? Each week we just make God madder and madder."~Matt Groening, The Simpsons
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Well, as I said above, I am not as stuffy as my writing style makes me seem at times. And I take no offense, as stated earlier, I do respect the rights of others to hold their own views.
I do speak rather candidly, and perhaps am too direct at times, which I find many are not used to. I am also greatly appreciating the respectful tone of the replies I have read, and am enjoying the exchange.
However, I can only reply from my own point of view. For me, it *is* quite simple, there is nothing overly complicated about the gospel.
Christianity is "exclusionist" Christ himself said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me" John 14:6 [NKJV]
We also have "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:14 [ASV]
We are the ones in need of salvation for our sins. God provided it, but it is still on his terms, not ours. This is demonstrated by Christ himself, that there is no other path: "And he went forward a little, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matthew 26:39
If there was any other way, Christ would not have had to have been crucified. So I would say that this is about as exclusive as it gets.
In addition to this, there is right, and there is wrong. God calls doing wrong "sin". There is no middle ground, and we all have sinned. The penalty for sin is clear, and Christ took that penalty unto himself for our sake. No other religion makes that claim, or can. We, in our sinful nature like to think in shades of grey, and try to justify our actions and rationalize our sin. This is not how God sees things. He is just, and being just, cannot look the other way, or join us in our rationalization. But he is merciful, and through the sacrifice of his son on the cross, provided a way for us, we need only accept it.
If this limits my world view, in this aspect I take it as a compliment. I hope that some day my vision would be limited to that of Christ's. It is a worthy goal, one that I cannot do on my own, and likely will not achieve in this mortal life.
So far as "most" christian churches embracing the study of other faiths, I am not aware of it. I am aware of some "churches" doing such, often the same ones denying the authority of scripture, denying the diety of Christ and adopting a Gnostic pantheism, among other things I find too offensive to go into detail. That would remove them from truly being a Christian church in my view, as they refuse the authority of the very God they claim to serve.
I disagree with equating the study of the faith and culture of the people a missionary is planning to serve in the field with the theology those type of churches. It is a good thing to know the people one is to witness to. To then state however, that most or all christians should study other faiths and incorporate their beliefs (as implied by your statement regarding exlusionist viewpoint) is an error. The intents and goals are very different.
I apologize if I may have misunderstood what you are saying though.
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Originally posted by Blackwulf
For me, it *is* quite simple, there is nothing overly complicated about the gospel.
Christianity is "exclusionist" Christ himself said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me" John 14:6 [NKJV]
Problem is pretty much every religion on Earth claims the same thing.
Party on dudes. Be good to one another.
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Book of Armaments, Chapter 4, Verses 16 to 20:
Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."
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Originally posted by AWMac
Hell most of the time I feel like GOD is beating me with the watermelon end of the stick and Jesus is holding me down saying "Don't get up."
I rely upon GODs sense of humor..how else do you explain the Giraffe?
Mac
I'm 50 almost halfway thru the whipping.
“Much anger in him, like his father.”
-Yoda speaking of jesus-
Star Wars chapter V
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Originally posted by Dadano
[B"Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. [/B]
i believe in a god, i just don't believe in your god. Proverb, john9001.
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If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough
When you get knocked down, you gotta get back up,
I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer but I know enough to know,
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.
Roger Alan Wade *1st Book on Stupidity, 2nd Chapter of Owww*
*Thou shall continueth*
I lit my brain with rot gut whisky
'Til my pain was chicken fried
and I've had dudes with badges frisk me
Teach me how to swallow pride
I took advice no fool would take
I got some habits I can't shake
I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer but I know enough to know
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough!
When you get knocked down you gotta get back up
That's the way it is in life and love and
Asss holes
I've been up and down, and down and out
I've been left and right and wrong
I walk the walk and i run my mouth
Been on that short end for too long
But if they gave medals for honkey-tonk wars
Hell, I'd keep mine in my chest of drawers
With myIRS bills and divorce papers and all that stuff
If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough!
When you get knocked down you gotta get back up.
I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but i know enough to know
If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough
If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough
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When I'm feeling down I just think of 1 Samuel 14:13-14
Jonathan climbed up, using his hands and feet, with his armor-bearer right behind him. The Philistines fell before Jonathan, and his armor-bearer followed and killed behind him. 14 In that first attack Jonathan and his armor-bearer killed some twenty men in an area of about half an acre.
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Originally posted by Dadano
When things get heavy, I'll read a little Emerson or Nietzsche and get that much needed inspiration from the Great Ronnie Johns. Harden the **** up. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y) :D
LMAO wish I could take this video with me whereve I go.
then every time someone whined about being "offended"
I could play it for them.
Kinda like my standard "Grow a thicker skin" line
But with more flavor
:aok :aok
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Originally posted by republic
I generally don't discuss my faith out of respect for others. (This being my first post concerning it in the 2 years of playing this game.) If I'm asked, I'll respond but most people, as evident from these replies, have either been scorned by "Christians" or have intense feelings regarding faith of any sort.
I was looking for input for a study I am putting together and I had wrongly assumed there was a higher percentage of people of faith in these forums simply because of the generally higher average age of the typical AH player.
As much as I wish I had the ability to close the topic, and as much as I had hoped it would die quickly...it likely will remain and become an irritating constant reminder to my inbox.
So all I'm unsubscribing the thread, if you have a particular verse you'd like to share, PM me.
If you look. just as in real life there are alot of people of faith here.
Just to varying degrees.
Nobody adheres to their fath abslutely. It is near if not impossable to do so all the time.
Its a great ideology
But
Its simply not realistic.
Even my Uncle the Jehovas Witness. Who is probably the most devout to his religeon of anyone I've ever known.
Eventually came to this conclusion when he learned there can be certain benifits to a certain degree of greed.
Used to live the life of poverty. spending most if not all of his time "spreading the word."
now he is much more realistic.
Seems that while money may not be able to buy you happiness and enlightenment.
It sure can pay your way out of a whole lot of misery.
Not to mention food and housing.
As for me. More spiritual then religeous
Im agnostic towards organised religeon.
Each are mostly interpetations and misinterpetations anyway.
If you look at them in the entirety and strip away alot of the BS that organised religions preach. mostly advertising their own over all others.
And just look at the message.
the message is pretty much the same. And can be summed up in 3 sentances.
Live a decent life
Treat people how you want to be treated.
Learn how to forgive.
Turn the other cheek.
After that.
All bets are off
;)
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If you really want an answer to your question.
I would suggest Seagoon.
Who as far as Im concerned is more or less the O'club chaplin
He can usually come up with some pretty good pearls of wizdom
Come to think of it
Where the hell is Seagoon anyway?
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Originally posted by Bluedog
Problem is pretty much every religion on Earth claims the same thing.
Party on dudes. Be good to one another.
Wasn't that "Be excellent to each other? :lol
IMO religion has become a supermarket. Christian mythology, Buddhist mythology, Islamic mythology and so on and so forth, one size does not fit all, just pick the one that suits your mood today.
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DESIDERATA
Go placidly amid the noise & haste, & remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly & clearly; and listen to others, even the dull & ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain & bitter; for always there will be greater & lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity & disenchantment it is perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue & loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labours & aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery & broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.
Found in Old Saint Paul's Church, Baltimore, dated 1692
Desiderata is the plural of "something needed and wanted. Despite myth, the poem was written in 1927 by lawyer-poet Max Ehrmann of Terre Haute, Indiana. Some versions have "Be cheerful" instead of "Be careful."
He who bends to himself a Joy
Doth the winged life destroy;
But he who kisses the Joy as it flies
Lives in Eternity's sunrise.
-- William Blake, Eternity 1757-1827
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I've been reading the Gnostic Bible and am starting to lean more towards a Gnostic view of the world. I don't really know enough to elaborate beyond that, I've got the feeling it's going to take a long time to truly understand.
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Originally posted by SD67
Wasn't that "Be excellent to each other? :lol
IMO religion has become a supermarket. Christian mythology, Buddhist mythology, Islamic mythology and so on and so forth, one size does not fit all, just pick the one that suits your mood today.
Yep, you are right there SD, excellent it is.
Still, it is a mantra I try and live by.....live and let live, each to their own, do unto others as you would have done unto thine self etc.
IMHO God, any God that is worth following, wouldn't care what book you read, or what name you call Him/Her/It by, it is how you act and how you interact with your fellow living creatures that really counts.
I guess I'll find out if i am right or wrong the day I die, but until then just making a conscious effort to try and understand others points of view and not make a salamander of myself has got to be worth something.
Halo, my mum has a copy of that on her fridge door, I have always thought it makes a whole lot of sense.
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Faith is what you have.
Religion is what the salesmen try to sell you.
To quote an old testament bit and disregard faith entirely ..-shrug- ..I've heard of sillier things people have done.
Get a load of what a 'wave offering' is and try to work that into your daily schedule if you think the old testament applies today.
Better yet . . read the old testament commandments.
There are over 200 of them.
Yes .. as handed down to Moses.
Charlie Heston didn't get 'em all in the movie, mk?
Good luck with that.
Coupla things that are interesting about the King James Bible..
..the 'Old Testament' is just that .. alla rules an regulations in there were for the edification of the faithful before Jesus walked as a man.
Things changed.
The New Testament is for the edification of the faithful these days.
I'd recommend reading the whole thing, it's a bit rough in spots .. both the temptation to not do so and the parts that speak directly to your soul..
It took me a long time to finally read the entire book cover to cover and it changed my life.
Just the standard old school King James version .. it's the closest to 'the greek' that you will find.
Not as edited by any religious salesmen, they try to bend the truths therein.
Check out how the King James version came into being .. it wasn't a minor task ..their very lives depended on 'getting it right'
-Frank aka GE
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Hi Drediock,
If you really want an answer to your question.
I would suggest Seagoon.
Who as far as Im concerned is more or less the O'club chaplin
He can usually come up with some pretty good pearls of wizdom
Come to think of it
Where the hell is Seagoon anyway?
My apologies, Drediock, I don't really log on to the forums anymore, in fact I'm only here today because I was checking out the "new and improved" BB and caught this thread in a search.
To tell the truth I found in the end that I just didn't have time to Pastor, counsel, run two blogs (one theological and one for deployed troops) moderate a mailing list and keep up with the AH BB. I had to make the decision to concentrate on the things that were directly part of my calling (either as a pastor or a husband and father) and the people who were asking for help - which could easily consume 24hrs of every day - rather than wasting the time of people who are sure they don't need it (or who become incredibly hostile if it is offered). Then there was the issue of my temper, I found that the more I interacted online, the more volatile my temper became. There are some people who live for arguments and bitter conflict and who thrive upon it, I'm not one of them, and over time it begins to wear me down and lessen my patience, which is something I can't afford to lose, especially not when I do marriage counseling. In pastoral ministry in a fallen world, there will be more than enough conflict, argument, and trial without going looking for it online. Remember that Christ instructed the Apostles that there was a time when you should shake the dust from your sandals and move on (Mark 6:11, Luke 9:5), and when even Paul determined that further efforts amongst one group would be fruitless and counterproductive (Acts 18:6).
If there was a specific thread for questions and civil religious discussion, I'd probably contribute, and I will always answer questions or give what help I can when people contact me directly http://www.providencepca.com/contactus.html (http://www.providencepca.com/contactus.html) but other than that I'm sincerely sorry Dred, but I don't think the parameters exist here for me to be the informal chaplain although I sincerely appreciate your support and kind words. I do wish everyone here well though, and am quite serious about always being available to help anyone who wants it.
- SEAGOON
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Hi Republic,
I thought it would be unfair to pop into your thread and not actually take a stab at answering the genuine question you've asked.
I'm 26, I've been a Christian for about 10 years now. The older I get the more frustrating it can be to remain steadfast in the midst of the great multitude of Christians 'in name only' and the general trials of life.
Some of you gents who are older in the faith, what scripture do you lean on when all else fails?
For me it would be:
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths.
I've been a Christian for roughly 15 years now myself, I was converted at the age of 23 out of paganism. The longer I spend as a pilgrim on the way to the Heaven, the more I have come to appreciate the fact that the normal Christian life is one of tribulation and difficulty and that it is in tribulation and not comfort that we learn our most important lessons. If I can put it this way, it is in the furnace of affliction that the dross melts away, and I learn to lean on Christ. Trial weans me away from love of the world, and makes me long for heaven, just as their time in slavery weaned Israel away from the love of Egypt and made them long for deliverance and the promised land. I have also learned the truth of Romans 8:28 that "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." and that all things includes the things that hurt us and that we don't enjoy. Joseph would never have thought being sold into slavery by his own brothers could have worked out for his good, but it did, because the things they meant for evil, GOD meant for good (Gen. 50:20). Consider also that when we want to make good soldiers we don't send them for a few months of easy living at a Resort and Day Spa, we put them in situations of privation and hardship and make them depend on their training, what they have available, and each other. So to, in hardship, Christians learn to depend upon the means of grace that God has provided (prayer, preaching, the word of God, the sacraments), the fellowship of the saints and the bearing of one another's burdens, and most importantly to learn to trust and lean upon Christ their Savior. That is why in the midst of personal difficulty Paul was able to write:
"And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (2 Cor. 12:7-9)
It was through this trial or "thorn in the flesh" that he desperately wanted to be free of (physical infirmity probably) that Christ taught Paul to be humble and to lean not on his own strength, but to depend on Christ's grace and strength.
I suppose the scriptures that are most significant to me in this process are the previously cited Romans 8:28 and Psalm 43 and in particular verses 3-5:
"Oh, send out Your light and Your truth! Let them lead me; Let them bring me to Your holy hill And to Your tabernacle. Then I will go to the altar of God, To God my exceeding joy; And on the harp I will praise You, O God, my God. Why are you cast down, O my soul? And why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God; For I shall yet praise Him, The help of my countenance and my God."
I am reminded by the last verse in particular to continue to preach the gospel to myself, and instead of being tossed to and fro by the discontent of my heart, to remind myself of the truth and ask "Why are you Cast down?" in light of the good news and promises of God.
Hope this is of use to you,
SEAGOON
PS: I don't know if it will help, but here are three sermons I preached on the subject of trial and testing all are available in PDF and MP3 format
Suffering For Christ Brings Encouragement: http://www.sermonaudio.com/go/283 (http://www.sermonaudio.com/go/283)
Shouldn't I Be Bitter?: http://www.sermonaudio.com/go/282 (http://www.sermonaudio.com/go/282)
The Fiery Furnace: http://www.sermonaudio.com/go/281 (http://www.sermonaudio.com/go/281)
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Hell most of the time I feel like GOD is beating me with the watermelon end of the stick and Jesus is holding me down saying "Don't get up."
I rely upon GODs sense of humor..how else do you explain the Giraffe?
Mac
I'm 50 almost halfway thru the whipping.
But some people are always there to push them away and hold out a hand for a friend. :cool:
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But some people are always there to push them away and hold out a hand for a friend. :cool:
Thanks Brother. Sometimes we all need somebody to lean on. You can call on me. :)
Mac
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It can be frustrating turning to and relying on religion, because i believe our supreme creator cannot be justified and totally summed up in the confines of a book and a limited perspective. We are all a part of that book and can look to each other for the learning and experiences we seek to gain in our quest for knowledge of ourselves, our creator, each other and the universe.
And we will seek and learn it was all the same thing. We are not seperate from our God, only seperate in our understanding and we will learn we were never far from his heart our his love from the beginning. We must seek apart to learn what we already knew in the beginning, to come to understand that place, and the true meaning of love and forgiveness and what it means to be whole. We will then be happy and can rest in the boosom of our creator for all of eternity, secure in the knowledge of our importance, our place, his place, and ours and his endearing love.
Our source is beyond the mere mortal comprehension of us men. Although we have the mental power to understand our creator. He cannot be understood from the comprehension of our mortal mind only the soul's mind for only the soul is true. So seek for truth not with finite eyes, open your mind past the possibilities of religion, without the fear of judgement. Be not afraid to do wrong for if you do wrong with the heart and mind of love and correction. It was never wrong in the beginning. Your creator will not judge you, only you and i will. And that has always been far harsher and the true crime since the beginning.
Seek your truth where you will, it will only lead us back to where we started, and that is where we have always been.....
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Is it ok for an Athiest to chime in on this thread?(on what i think of scripture)..don't want to hyjack the topic.
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Is it ok for an Athiest to chime in on this thread?(on what i think of scripture)..don't want to hyjack the topic.
Go ahead Sirloin i'd like to hear what you think...
:)
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"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him" -Job 13:15
Job suffered greatly, beyond what most of us can comprehend. Without faith that this life has a purpose beyond it's few years I couldn't go on.
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If alot of you could seperate out RELIGON from RELATIONSHIP with Jesus,you would all be alot better off,and would be drawn to delve into it deeper.Then again that only comes from God..
Kevin