Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hornet33 on April 07, 2008, 11:05:10 AM
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Had an interesting Saturday night. I was coming home from the local bar where I had been shooting in a pool turny all night, and decided to stop at the 7-11 right around the corner from my apartment complex for some smokes, munchies, and a couple of 2 liters of Pepsi. Right next door to the 7-11 is a hip hop club. It's very popular with the brothers in the area so they are always hanging out in front of the place and raising hell in the parking lot. The police patrol the area heavily when the club is open for the obvious reasons.
Anyway I walked into the 7-11 past a bunch of gang bangers, get my stuff and walk back out to my truck. Mind you I'm a white guy wearing a cowboy hat, boots, and a t-shirt that has the "Cowboy Up" logo on the back of it. Well three of the brother start giving me a bunch of crap about the way I'm dressed. I ignore them and continue on to my truck and they start to follow me. I get in my truck and one of them walks around behind my truck and stands there so I can't move, while the other two come up to the drivers side window and start giving me a bunch of crap. I asked them why they are being so racist towards me and they get really pissed off and start telling me they are going to kick my arse.
Game on. I open the center console of my truck where I had my Taurus PT99 9mm pistol and pull it out and set it up on the dash where they can see it. One of them yells "He's got a gun" and they all run off. I start my truck and drive around the corner to my apartment complex, pull in and park and sit there for a minute looking around to see if they are trying to follow me. I can see the club from where I'm parked and I see the three of them standing there watching me so I figure I'll wait until they leave so they don't see what apartment I live in.
Within a couple of minutes a police cruiser pulls into the parking lot and comes right up behind my truck and stops. Two officers get out and tell me to get out of my truck. I do as I'm told and one of them comes up to me while the other stands back behind the cruiser watching me. The first officer asks me if I have a gun in my truck and I tell him yes I do and that I also have a valid CCW in my wallet along with my ID if he would like to see it. I hand him my CCW, ID, and tell him my pistol is in the center console and that he may get it out if he wants and look through my truck.
He checks everything out, calls in my ID and CCW info, comes back clean and in order, then he asks me what happened. I told him what went down, and that's when he informed me that the guys giving me all the crap where the ones who called the police. I looked over and they were still standing there on their cell phones. I pointed them out to the police, and they told me they would go over and have a little chat with them. They gave me back my CCW, and ID told me to have a nice evening and left. I stayed there leaning against my truck and watched as the officers went over and started questioning the three guys, and had to laugh when the officers both drew their firearms and told them to get on the ground. One of them had a gun on him at that point, and he was arrested. The other had a bag of "something" in his pocket and he was arrested, and the third guy ended up getting arrested for something, not sure what, but they had anouther cruiser show up with two more officers to take him away.
That was the closest I've come to atually pulling the trigger. I was SURE they were about to start breaking windows on my truck to try and get me out and beat the crap out of me. All for wearing western clothing, driving a truck, and being white. I didn't say anything to them going into the store or coming out to provoke that kind of response from them. They were just a bunch of racists thugs looking for an excuse to stir up trouble and then got pissed when I called them on it.
I honestly believe that if I didn't have my pistol with me I might not have made it home Saturday night, and I can see the store from my bedroom window. At least I didn't become a victim and I never will. Not without a fight anyway.
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Nancy Pelosi is crying right now because you defended yourself. You should have taken your asswhoppin'...you are white afterall.
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Sounds like it worked out well for you, I don't think I would have put my gun on the dash tho.
shamus
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I am not racist but being that I work in a job that deal alot with thugs. I came to realized most of the time if u call their bluff they shut the F up, however some think that they can keep going on and that is where the sh*t hits the fan. I :salute u sir for standing up. Just remember they do have some d*ckheads out there. Who may not be bluffing. I have no doubt that u can handle yourself. Just keep that in the back of your mind <S>.
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Serves em right..
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The only suck part is you need to watch your stuff and back for the next month or so.
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I'm glad you're safe Hornet.
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So, 3 gang bangers called the cops on you? You realize that this is ... well .... highly unusual?
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You should have shot the 3 of them and done the universe a favour.
Good job, mate :aok
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Not sure what state you live in, but if you brandish a weapon in WA state, you'll go to jail.
Now, you can inform the party preventing you from leaving that you are armed, but you cannot draw your weapon until there is a threat to your life (i.e. they pull a gun). Sounds weird, but that's the way it is here.
My "action plan" that I have rehearsed in my head is that I could have my hand on the weapon inside my jacket or in the center console where it is kept while traveling, and warn the party threatening me that I am armed. If they pull a weapon, I'll have to be faster.
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You realize that this is ... well .... highly unusual?
Glad things worked out though....i'd still be nervous driving around with a loaded pistol and i live in Chicago. :uhoh
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So, 3 gang bangers called the cops on you? You realize that this is ... well .... highly unusual?
I was thinking the same thing. I'm not 100% sure it was "them" that called the police or someone else that was in the store or parking lot that saw me with my pistol. There were at least 10-12 people (all black) in the immediate area watching and not doing a damn thing to stop it. Most likely was one of them that called.
As far as watching my back, well that goes without saying. At least my apartment complex is a gated community, 4 police officers live there, and there are survailance cameras all over the place outside. There are a ton of military folks that live there as well and I know all my immediate neighbors. They all know what happened and everyone keeps a pretty good watch around the apartments and parking lots.
There's never been any trouble in the apartments and never really any trouble in the entire area until that club opened up 9 months ago. They've had so many complaints filed against them, that they only open on the weekends now. Hopefully they'll get shut down before too long and everything can go back to being a peacefull neighborhood again.
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So, 3 gang bangers called the cops on you? You realize that this is ... well .... highly unusual?
It's really is not that unusual, I have found that people who have been in the system know how to use the system, of course the guy holding the gun would have ditched it so maybe they didn't call :)
shamus
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So, 3 gang bangers called the cops on you? You realize that this is ... well .... highly unusual?
This smells very fishy. also, if this actually did happen, you handled this incredibly stupidly and are lucky you didn't get killed.
while the other two come up to the drivers side window
So with two bad guys at the driver's side window you
I open the center console of my truck where I had my Taurus PT99 9mm pistol and pull it out and set it up on the dash
You pulled out your gun and then let go of it with a bad guy a foot or two away from you and not much farther from the gun. You let go of your gun?! You are either telling tall tales here or are else you have absolutely no business owning a handgun because you have no clue whatsoever about gun retention. Which is it?
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Well done Hornet33.
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This smells very fishy. also, if this actually did happen, you handled this incredibly stupidly and are lucky you didn't get killed.
So with two bad guys at the driver's side window you
You pulled out your gun and then let go of it with a bad guy a foot or two away from you and not much farther from the gun. You let go of your gun?! You are either telling tall tales here or are else you have absolutely no business owning a handgun because you have no clue whatsoever about gun retention. Which is it?
No I never let go of my weapon. Let me clear this up right now. I had the pistol in my hand and put my hand on the dash holding the weapon, i.e. placed the gun on the dash.
I'm a Coast Guard trained bording team member. I know all about weapons retention, and use of force. At that point they had only made verbal threats towards me and pointing a loaded weapon in their face was not justified at that point. When they saw the gun they ran away, and I left the area. Had they made a more agressive move, like trying to open my door, or pulled a weapon themselves I would have shot at that point.
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Here in Texas you can draw your gun if you feel your life is endangered. You do not have to wait till someone is pointing a firearm your way.
In Texas if your drinking and have your carry.... you can lose your license. I leave my pistol at home when I go play pool as I will have a few drinks. I leave my shotgun in the truck all the time.
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No I never let go of my weapon. Let me clear this up right now. I had the pistol in my hand and put my hand on the dash holding the weapon, i.e. placed the gun on the dash.
I'm a Coast Guard trained bording team member. I know all about weapons retention, and use of force. At that point they had only made verbal threats towards me and pointing a loaded weapon in their face was not justified at that point. When they saw the gun they ran away, and I left the area. Had they made a more agressive move, like trying to open my door, or pulled a weapon themselves I would have shot at that point.
This story pegs my BS-o-meter. At the same time my care-o-meter hasn't even twitched. Enjoy your tall tales, cowboy. :aok
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This story pegs my BS-o-meter. At the same time my care-o-meter hasn't even twitched. Enjoy your tall tales, cowboy. :aok
Well, I was trying to say the same thing in a nice way.
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I could really care less if anyone belives me or not. I'm just recounting the situation I found myself in Saturday night. I'm glad that Virginia is a shall issue state, and that I made the choice when I moved here to get my CCW. Never needed it until the other night but I'm glad I had it, and that I had my pistol in my truck.
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This story pegs my BS-o-meter. At the same time my care-o-meter hasn't even twitched. Enjoy your tall tales, cowboy. :aok
Where's my popcorn and beer?
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and me with a full day off from field work because I'm receiving quotations and preparing a condo bid <beck's dark just decapped in anticipation of more action>
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... and then you woke up :lol
Anyway, I thought you were talking about those CCW ... like they got you laid or something. :pray
(http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/corvettes-and-parts-for-sale/data/5/large/017.jpg)
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WTG hornet :aok
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I could really care less if anyone belives me or not. I'm just recounting the situation I found myself in Saturday night. I'm glad that Virginia is a shall issue state, and that I made the choice when I moved here to get my CCW. Never needed it until the other night but I'm glad I had it, and that I had my pistol in my truck.
Norfolk?
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Virginia Beach
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if anything remotely close to that ever occurred to me I wouldn't post it on any BBS let alone this one.
<pops another beck's open>
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so you drive directly to your house which is in sight after being confronted by the local gangbangers? :huh
well whatever you think is the thing to do :aok
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This story pegs my BS-o-meter. At the same time my care-o-meter hasn't even twitched. Enjoy your tall tales, cowboy. :aok
Steve, you love to talk about your BS-o-meter an awful lot, don't you? :rofl
And the care-o-meter? I actually think that may be a new one for you. :lol
Hornet hasn't given any indication in the past that he'd lie about stuff... *rolls eyes*
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Steve, you love to talk about your BS-o-meter an awful lot, don't you? :rofl
And the care-o-meter? I actually think that may be a new one for you. :lol
Hornet hasn't given any indication in the past that he'd lie about stuff... *rolls eyes*
When it comes to altercations, the general rule of the internet is always "VID OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN!"
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so you drive directly to your house which is in sight after being confronted by the local gangbangers? :huh
well whatever you think is the thing to do :aok
Yeah, kinda stupid thing to do huh? What can I say, I was scarred and just wanted to get home. When they ran and I took off it was just kinda auto pilot at that point. When I saw them watching me from across the street in the parking lot I got scared even more so I stayed in my truck so they wouldn't see what building I lived in. That's when the police showed up and started questioning me about everything.
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This story pegs my BS-o-meter. At the same time my care-o-meter hasn't even twitched. Enjoy your tall tales, cowboy. :aok
Mmmm
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,215923.0.html
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Steve, you love to talk about your BS-o-meter an awful lot, don't you? :rofl
And all the while pegs everyone else`s. :)
He would argue with a fence post......and lose.
Hornet hasn't given any indication in the past that he'd lie about stuff... *rolls eyes*
I may not always agree with a lot of Hornet`s views on things, but one thing he doesn`t do here is BS.
It`s a violent world out the kiddies. Get a grip.
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What's your point Vulcan? That craps been going on ever since that club opened. Getting hasseled and called names for wearing my boots and hat is nothing new, but having 3 of them follow me to my truck and threaten to kick my arse because of it was. Like I said in that thread and this one, the police always have a heavy pressence in the area when that club is open. The police showed up in my apartment complex within minutes of me pulling in looking for my truck so they were close by.
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Mmmm
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,215923.0.html
Interesting link sir. Verrry interesting.
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Steve, you love to talk about your BS-o-meter an awful lot, don't you? :rofl
And the care-o-meter? I actually think that may be a new one for you. :lol
Hornet hasn't given any indication in the past that he'd lie about stuff... *rolls eyes*
Don't be so hard on Steve. When it comes to BS, he is profoundly familiar.
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I'd just like to say that its funny how the anti-gun whiners haven't touched this. Go figure that when advocates of responsible self protection are proven right they don't have anything to say.
Hornet, glad to hear you came out on top of that. Remember that no incident goes down perfectly, and that an AAR is always a good idea. Learning from a few mistakes that were made is golden. Watch yourself for a while. If they saw you park there they may assume you do live there and come back looking for you and/or your truck. They may be out soon or send friends, either way, remain vigilant.
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Kinda hard to "touch it" when they don't really think it's true. I'm going to have to side with them on this one and also point out something rip said:
Not sure what state you live in, but if you brandish a weapon in WA state, you'll go to jail.
Same thing in Oregon.
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Mmmm
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,215923.0.html
:cry :cry :cry :rock :rofl
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Sounds like it worked out well for you, I don't think I would have put my gun on the dash tho.
shamus
Agree, technically, that would be "brandishing". But, it seems all is good, so just watch it in the future Hornet. <<S>> and glad you're ok.
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Kinda hard to "touch it" when they don't really think it's true. I'm going to have to side with them on this one and also point out something rip said:
Same thing in Oregon.
here in florida he would have been celebrated, we are allowed to defend ourselves if the incident were true that is.
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We're allowed to defend ourselves too. But brandishing a weapon because 3 people are near your car isn't really going to cut it as defending yourself.
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Don't be so hard on Steve. When it comes to BS, he is profoundly familiar.
My intent wasn't too be harsh toward him. I still think he's tops... I seen the Bailey show. :)
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I'm on your side in this Hornet. Since this has happened to you before at that 7-11 with the brothers giving you grief about the cowboy hat and all...I'm thinking the best self defense in the future would be to not go to that 7-11. I know it sounds wussy to avoid a place where trouble might happen, but if you had used the gun and killed the thugs, having had trouble there before, it might look like you went there with a gun with the intention to shoot someone. At least that's what a prosecuting attorney might say. That you had the gun because you were expecting trouble, i.e. looking for it.
Another thing, what if the thugs hadn't backed off at the sight of the gun? Then you'd have to shoot them. You would have gotten in trouble, unfortunately.
I'm not saying what I would have done under the circumstances. No one knows what they will do until they do it. It would make sense to roll up the windows and get out of there soon as possible. If I had to say anything it may have been something like, "No thanks, not today." If I had problems at that 7-11 before under similar circumstances, I wouldn't have been there to begin with.
Glad everything turned out well. Using the word "you" in a global sense, it's a rough situation where you have to wait for someone to attack you first before acting. I've always heard if you shoot someone, to tell the Police you were in fear for your life (which wouldn't be a lie.) Please don't take this as a personal criticism. It's not. In my uneducated opinion, if you had killed one of those thugs, the biggest obstacle to a self defense argument would be that you went back to that 7-11 when you had this happen in the past and knew it was likely to happen again.
Les
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We're allowed to defend ourselves too. But brandishing a weapon because 3 people are near your car isn't really going to cut it as defending yourself.
I can shoot someone if I feel threatened here.
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I'm willing to bet there needs to be some actual risk involved. Especially when you're in your car in a parking lot. Especially when you're given enough time to reach into the center console and remove a weapon. This is not your home. You are not exposed. "Threatened" is ambiguous.
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PS... by that logic, they could have shot hornet.
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nope. all you need is a corpse, the words I was in fear for my life and be in your car. if you are interested look it up. the handwringers were all fretting about the place becoming dodge city with all the white guys shooting the poor down trodden colored folk. what has actually occurred is far few fewer carjackings and armed type crimes. I've noticed lots less road rage and actual downright civility.
I guess heinlein was correct after all.
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I guess heinlein was correct after all.
Yea. An armed society is a polite society. Amsterdam's corollary is a stoned society is... ummm what were we talking about?
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I'd just like to say that its funny how the anti-gun whiners haven't touched this. Go figure that when advocates of responsible self protection are proven right they don't have anything to say.
LOL, "responsible self protection?" Give me a break- He's returning home from a bar. If he freaked out and shot the three hip-hoppers (who are now in jail because every story needs a happy ending) then would you salute this as a good thing?
Not that I believe this for a second, mind you...
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Well if he shot the minority types.
Instead of showing them where he lives, his pooper would still be in an unviolated state 2 weeks from now.
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This is a prime example of why I don't live in Virginia.
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We're allowed to defend ourselves too. But brandishing a weapon because 3 people are near your car isn't really going to cut it as defending yourself.
As I posted here before my friend in Delaware got 9 years for doing just that...on his own property. It was reduced to 3 but he served all of them. He got out early last year.
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I could really care less if anyone belives me or not. I'm just recounting the situation I found myself in Saturday night. I'm glad that Virginia is a shall issue state, and that I made the choice when I moved here to get my CCW. Never needed it until the other night but I'm glad I had it, and that I had my pistol in my truck.
Incidents like these always seem a little sensationalised when recounted. Some folk will always have better ways you should have dealt with it, others will call BS. It's just the way of things.
We're allowed to defend ourselves too. But brandishing a weapon because 3 people are near your car isn't really going to cut it as defending yourself.
If you are allowed to CCW, have the right to defend yourself and have a genuine fear for your safety and well being, then how can displaying your ability to defend yourself not be justifiable. Would it have been better that he not bring attention to the fact he had the ability to use deadly force and allow the gangbangers to push the situation to the point that Hornet had no choice but to kill one or more of them?
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I can't speak for Virginia, but here in West Virginia anyone within 21 feet can be considered an threat. Last saturday I completed an NRA basic pistol class in preperation for getting my CCW. As well as gun saftey we also discussed in depth what is and is not considered a threat.
<snip> Anyway I walked into the 7-11 past a bunch of gang bangers, get my stuff and walk back out to my truck. Mind you I'm a white guy wearing a cowboy hat, boots, and a t-shirt that has the "Cowboy Up" logo on the back of it. Well three of the brother start giving me a bunch of crap about the way I'm dressed. I ignore them and continue on to my truck and they start to follow me. I get in my truck and one of them walks around behind my truck and stands there so I can't move, while the other two come up to the drivers side window and start giving me a bunch of crap. I asked them why they are being so racist towards me and they get really pissed off and start telling me they are going to kick my arse.
Considering the story to be as he told it, at the point they started threatening to kick his arse, he (in WV) was completely within the law to draw his gun. Personally I would have aimed it center mass of the nearest threat as laying it on the dash could be considered brandishing. I also would have announced my intent to start shooting if they didn't back off.
Here is where I believe he dropped the ball ...
As soon as you were 'safe', meaning there was no immediate threat, you should have called the police. It turned out well, but it would have been better to have your voice on the 911 tape stating what happened that caused you to draw your gun.
While this is a little Serenity-esqe I'm inclined to believe him as there was no moral/airforceacademy conflict, no pineapple people and no butt-cracks involved.
All in all, I say well done, but next time, call the police yourself. Remember YOU are the responsible citizen.
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I'm willing to bet there needs to be some actual risk involved.
If three bangers, one blocking you in and two at the window threatening you with bodily injury is not a risk, then I don`t know what is.
Especially when you're in your car in a parking lot. Especially when you're given enough time to reach into the center console and remove a weapon. This is not your home
You don`t have to be in your home. That is the whole point of concealed carry. If it were in your home you would not require the permit to carry.
You are not exposed.
Not exposed to rabies , cholera or chicken pox maybe, but most certainly exposed to a life threatening situation.
Of course we have to make sure we do not harm the bangers running around killing and injuring people ..now don`t we? :rolleyes:
Limp wristed, liberal attitudes make me want to hurl.
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What? MT can't believe that negros were acting racist? or that they called the government when they didn't get their way? I am shocked.
Not sure about the whole story. Shouldn't any incident where you "brandish" your gun be reported?
leslie.. what do you mean don't go to that store because there are negros there? You realize that you are talking segregation here? You I am sure that there will be a government program to bus white people to the area if it gets too bad... no.. wait.. check that.. what will really happen is that when it gets so bad that they can't stand it themselves.. the negros will move to a nice white area and destroy it..
lazs
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What? MT can't believe that negros were acting racist? or that they called the government when they didn't get their way? I am shocked.
lazs
That's not what I said, nor what I meant, but you sir never fail to deliver.
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"So, 3 gang bangers called the cops on you? You realize that this is ... well .... highly unusual?"
there ya go MT...
Not sure that it was even those three according to the story but someone did. someone who hangs out at such a place with such people.. I am not in the least surprised when they call the cops on white people or sue or whine like little babies for someone to take care of em.
lazs
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and that's when he informed me that the guys giving me all the crap where the ones who called the police. I looked over and they were still standing there on their cell phones. I pointed them out to the police, and they told me they would go over and have a little chat with them.
He seemed to know when I posted it.
All I'm saying is that real "Gang Bangers" are unlikely to call the police. Just an observation based on experience.
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He seemed to know when I posted it.
All I'm saying is that real "Gang Bangers" are unlikely to call the police.
Horse biscuits. The first to drop a dime if they are bested.
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I can't speak for Virginia, but here in West Virginia anyone within 21 feet can be considered an threat. Last saturday I completed an NRA basic pistol class in preperation for getting my CCW. As well as gun saftey we also discussed in depth what is and is not considered a threat.
So... you're free to shoot anyone that gets within 21 feet of you? Or does there actually have to be a reason for the shooting other than proximity?
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He seemed to know when I posted it.
All I'm saying is that real "Gang Bangers" are unlikely to call the police. Just an observation based on experience.
Kinda like real "outlaw bikers" calling the cops.
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Limp wristed, liberal attitudes make me want to hurl.
Some poeple are so one dimensional they see a Liberal behind every tree, every issue, just waiting to jump out and get them...
It must be sad to have to live with such fear.
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Who says they're afraid? Only thing for sure is they get false-positives all over.
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Kinda like real "outlaw bikers" calling the cops.
Now those guys are letigious as all get out!
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first off.. not sure there are many "outlaw bikers" left around but I do know they used to call the cops from time to time.. I knew black panthers who called the cops too. All crooks will call the cops (or anyone else) if they think it will be to their advantage or hurt someone they don't like.
lazs
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Some poeple are so one dimensional they see a Liberal behind every tree, every issue,
There is always a few willing to give up every right and every freedom at the drop of a hat because they are afraid of standing up.
They don`t waste their time behind trees. The neon gives them away.
It must be sad to have to live with such fear.
Yep.......libs fear just about every thing.
Their greatest threat is themselves.
Not too hard to identify in a crowd though. the pink scarves give them away.
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Kinda like real "outlaw bikers" calling the cops.
One of the oldest tricks in the book when club wars are going on.
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Yep.......libs fear just about every thing.
LOL, not THIS Liberal- I'm not the one who's so fearful I carry a gun on me, or keep one in my car- I refuse to live like a rabbit. I'll leave that to the AH Neocons who "claim" to carry guns, and who "claim" to occasionally pull one out in order to save themselves from a fearful arse whooping.
;)
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LOL, not THIS Liberal- I'm not the one who's so fearful I carry a gun on me, or keep one in my car- I refuse to live like a rabbit.
Nobody is forcing anyone to carry or even own a gun if that is what one wishes to do.
For those that do wish to own and carry, it should be shown the same respect.
I know that there is quite a few non-owners and non-concealed carry folks walking around due to those that do.
It`s always been that way through history. The ones willing and wishing to do so protect those who do not have the backbone to protect themselves or those around them.
LOL, not THIS Liberal
That`s the standard line. :)
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Nobody is forcing anyone to carry or even own a gun if that is what one wishes to do.
For those that do wish to own and carry, it should be shown the same respect.
I know that there is quite a few non-owners and non-concealed carry folks walking around due to those that do.
It`s always been that way through history. The ones willing and wishing to do so protect those who do not have the backbone to protect themselves or those around them.
That`s the standard line. :)
LOL, except I own several guns from rifles to shotguns and handguns, and I still shoot but not as much as I used to- so I'm comfortable and familiar around guns. I've just never felt it was necessary to pack a gun on me or in my car- it just seems like a really dumb idea that is likely to have a tragic result instead of a happy ending. I feel like I can protect myself without using a gun- that's not to say that if you called me up and said you were coming over to shoot me I wouldn't arm myself- but if someone sticks a gun in my face and demands my wallet I'm giving up the wallet, rather I have a gun or not.
That said I'm in favor of CCWs, if you wish to carry you should be allowed to. I could get a CCW, but it's pointless because I'd no more take a gun with me on a weekend getaway than I would my vacuum cleaner. I just figure I won't need it.
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Serenity had the right idea... hide a folding knife.
Very seldom you need to provide the "PaperWork".
Mac
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Serenity had the right idea... hide a folding knife.
Very seldom you need to provide the "PaperWork".
Mac
Dunno man, these were no pineapples!
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Again, this is why I don't live in Virginia. Where I live the situation would never arise. I don't carry because I don't need to. But if I need to I can.
Hornet handled the situation well for his circumstances. His training allowed him to end the situation with no one injured.
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I wouldn't arm myself- but if someone sticks a gun in my face and demands my wallet I'm giving up the wallet, rather I have a gun or not.
That`s pretty much a thing of the past nowadays.
Still happens, but today it is more gangs and teams when it comes to such things.
Most are cracked or stoned out of their gourd.
Most have no conscience to bother them if they kill someone.
A lot are just out for the killing itself. They just plain get off on it or it is a badge of honor.
Proud Texas finally took the right steps and put the gun carry laws back in the right direction.
feel like I can protect myself without using a gun
You think you could do better against a group of armed humans than you did with a single monkey?
but that monkey put such a severe arse whipping on me it made me wish I had a gun
:rofl :devil
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So... you're free to shoot anyone that gets within 21 feet of you? Or does there actually have to be a reason for the shooting other than proximity?
Try a course on reading comprehension before trolling.
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Try a course on reading comprehension before trolling.
.........or better yet a course on trolling. He never got a hook in the water. No step stool. :)
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I can't speak for Virginia, but here in West Virginia anyone within 21 feet can be considered an threat.
Maybe you'd like to try a course in comprehensive writing. Because that statement right there is so far out of left field it doesn't really make sense. A threat is not defined by distance. A threat is defined by actions. Someone shouting at you while you are in your car is not a threat, no matter the distance. Someone standing there "blocking" your car is not a threat, no matter what the distance. If you have time to turn around, open a center console, take a gun out, place it on the dash and look back... there wasn't much of a threat. All of the "WTG!" and "well done!" in the world won't change that. All of the tape measures in the world won't change that either.
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I think what he is getting at with the 21' thing is if someone is within 21' with a weapon they are considered an immediate threat. The Coast Guard teaches this as well as most law enforcement organizations I know of. Guy with a knife within 21', take him out. Guy with a tire iron within 21' is a lethal threat, take him out. The reason 21' is considered lethal range is based on many, many tests that have been conducted. The average person can close that 21' distance to point blank range before the average person can draw a weapon from a holster, aim, and get a shot off. This has always been a concern for the Coast Guard because most boardings we conduct we are within "proximity" range as soon as we step aboard a vessel.
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Here where i live we floor the pedal while holding clutch, if they don't leave, you let go of the clutch and make a pancake out of them.
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airhead.. would you say that you are living in paranoid, cringing fear by wearing a seatbelt?
Your chances of being in a wreck where a seatbelt will save your life is tiny.. Your chances of being the victim of a violent crime is one in four. Yet.. you buckle up like some scared lemming.. believing the tall tales of all the socialists and hand wringers here who "claim" to have had their lives saved by seatbelts..
Thousands upon thousands of hours with a stiff uncomfortable seatbelt eating into your tender neck.. unable to move around in your own car.. tied to the seat.
One of my guns is no more trouble to carry than a cell phone.
lazs
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Your chances of being in a wreck where a seatbelt will save your life is tiny.. Your chances of being the victim of a violent crime is one in four.
You really want to go with those numbers?
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Kinda like real "outlaw bikers" calling the cops.
lol gang bangers have a long way to go before even getting close too outlaw bikers!
most gang bangers have been surrounded by police there whole lives, be it because of the place they live, or the company they keep! so it is safe to say they would call the cops, if they felt wronged or bested, anyone in there society who was ever "wronged" was soon surrounded by police, then usually an ambulance. then the moron who shot there little brother or sister is caught, and off to prison, even tho it was probably something they themselves started and drug back into there home on there own!
outlaw bikers are just what there name implies "outlaws", they work as far outside of contact with police as they can, they try to avoid contact with anyone outside their group, other than when they are traveling, you rarely see them alone and most violence with them is from outsiders trying to be were they are! they also dont usually have clubs in town next to the local 7-11
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MT... couple hundred million people in the US... How many a year are "saved" by a seatbelt? What would you say your chances are of being in a car wreck where a seatbelt saves your life?
there are between 20 and 50 victims of violent crime a year per thousand population according to the justice bureau.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm
this is real data. The seatbelt saving lives thing... it is a guess. I can show you wrecks that you would swear everyone would have died if they had not been wearing seatbelts.. they did not die but.. they were not wearing seatbelts either.. about the only way you can be sure is if the passenger area is fine and the victim was launched out of the vehicle.. most anything else is just a guess. No one knows how many lives are saved. It is not static.. cars are not the same driving is not the same or conditions. It is a guess but... only about 1,000 to 4,000 a year are saved by seatbelts (high figure is DOT) cut it in half to get rid of exaggeration.
1.5 million times a year someone uses a firearm to stop a crime(low number from FBI stats).. think if only 10%... 1% of these would have resulted in a violent crime.
lazs
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1.5 million times a year someone uses a firearm to stop a crime(low number from FBI stats).. think if only 10%... 1% of these would have resulted in a violent crime.
lazs
annnnnnnnd how many times did someone hold up a bank with a seatbelt?
(sorry lazs, you were asking for it)
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airhead.. would you say that you are living in paranoid, cringing fear by wearing a seatbelt?
Your chances of being in a wreck where a seatbelt will save your life is tiny.. Your chances of being the victim of a violent crime is one in four. Yet.. you buckle up like some scared lemming.. believing the tall tales of all the socialists and hand wringers here who "claim" to have had their lives saved by seatbelts..
Thousands upon thousands of hours with a stiff uncomfortable seatbelt eating into your tender neck.. unable to move around in your own car.. tied to the seat.
One of my guns is no more trouble to carry than a cell phone.
lazs
The reason I wear a seat belt is because I'll get a ticket if I don't. In fact the one serious accident I was involved in I wasn't wearing a seat belt, and got thrown to the passenger side floorboards on the first cartwheel, and when the car landed upside down (after a few more rolls) the steering wheel was crushed into the back of the seat and the top was pushed all the way down to the seatbacks. I owe my life to the fact I was too drunk to remember to fasten my seatbelt when I got in the car.
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there are between 20 and 50 victims of violent crime a year per thousand population according to the justice bureau.
lazs
OK lazs, I'm not even gonna look it up. I'm gonna accept your numbers. 50 per 1000 is not 1 in 4.... 250 per 1000 would be 1 in 4. So you were off by a factor of 5 even assuming all of your numbers are accurate.
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OK, I looked it up.
Violent crime rate as of 2006 was 473.5 per 100,000.
This means of course that you were actually off by .... well.... a grip.
Actual numbers are 4.7 per 1000 not 50. And most certainly not 250.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
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MT... couple hundred million people in the US... How many a year are "saved" by a seatbelt? What would you say your chances are of being in a car wreck where a seatbelt saves your life?
there are between 20 and 50 victims of violent crime a year per thousand population according to the justice bureau.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm
this is real data. The seatbelt saving lives thing... it is a guess. I can show you wrecks that you would swear everyone would have died if they had not been wearing seatbelts.. they did not die but.. they were not wearing seatbelts either.. about the only way you can be sure is if the passenger area is fine and the victim was launched out of the vehicle.. most anything else is just a guess. No one knows how many lives are saved. It is not static.. cars are not the same driving is not the same or conditions. It is a guess but... only about 1,000 to 4,000 a year are saved by seatbelts (high figure is DOT) cut it in half to get rid of exaggeration.
1.5 million times a year someone uses a firearm to stop a crime(low number from FBI stats).. think if only 10%... 1% of these would have resulted in a violent crime.
lazs
Actually Lazs, NHTSA estimates that over 15,000 lives were saved because of seatbelt use in 2006 alone. But I'd suggest you just role with your numbers.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/nhtsa_static_file_downloader.jsp?file=/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/NCSA/Content/TSF/2006/810809.pdf
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Virginia Beach
Lol, you're one of the three white guys who live in Va Beach---dropped it as vacation destination decades ago
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Again, this is why I don't live in Virginia. Where I live the situation would never arise. I don't carry because I don't need to. But if I need to I can.
Hornet handled the situation well for his circumstances. His training allowed him to end the situation with no one injured.
RPM you live in Tejas right? Fail to understand how this could never happen there :lol
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You think you could do better against a group of armed humans than you did with a single monkey?
Oh yeah Jackal?? You think I'm a whimp or something? How bout I come down to your house and we see how tough YOU are? Just PM me your address, fella...I double dog dare ya. :mad:
SOB, in case Jackal gives me his address, can I borrow your spider monkey?
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I can't speak for Virginia, but here in West Virginia anyone within 21 feet can be considered an threat. .
A professional with a knife could kill you, starting from 30 feet away, before you could draw your weapon. Working in a prison has made me much more fearful of a knife over any gun.
The idiots who decided on 21 feet have obviously never been in battle.
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RPM you live in Tejas right? Fail to understand how this could never happen there :lol
I live in rural north Texas. If I lived in South Dallas, Killeen, North Houston or any other metromess area with a high crime rate then I would have a need to carry. Out here in the sticks, no need.
I've been to all 48 states. When you cross the Mississippi going east, things change. When you start going north up the eastern seaboard, things get uglier by the mile. No offense to you yankees, but you're fools for living there by choice. Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey, New York, Massachusettes and Maine are places I absolutely would carry for safety.
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I live in rural north Texas. If I lived in South Dallas, Killeen, North Houston or any other metromess area with a high crime rate then I would have a need to carry. Out here in the sticks, no need.
I've been to all 48 states. When you cross the Mississippi going east, things change. When you start going north up the eastern seaboard, things get uglier by the mile. No offense to you yankees, but you're fools for living there by choice. Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey, New York, Massachusettes and Maine are places I absolutely would carry for safety.
I used to think FLA was a ****hole, but as time went by, I realized my view was jaded because I lived in Tampa, where murders barely make the front page of the metro section. Now that I live in rural SW VA, (and in between worked a job fixing stuff in prisons in some 35 states) I realize that ANY big city with a decent-size welfare population--(which is redundant)--is a ***hole full of gangbangers. I'm thankful my little girl, who turns 18 next week, didn't grow up in Tampa. Lived there 20 years, had 4 friends who were murdered. Biggest problem I face now, other than figuring how said kid is going to college, is keeping bears out of garbage can
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Biggest problem I face now, other than figuring how said kid is going to college, is keeping bears out of garbage can
Some advice- If you confront a bear in your garbage can, and it starts approaching you in an agressive manner, and you have a gun, DO NOT say "Halt bear, or I will shoot you!" Because bears, and chimps, don't understand what you're saying. We learned that today. Instead
say "GGGRRROOOWWWLLLL" really loud and jump around alot....that should scare off most bears, unless it's a Grizzly, in which case shooting it with a handgun will only piss it off anyway.
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What if it's greater than 21 feet from you? Wouldn't that put it outside the defensive perimeter?
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
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What if it's greater than 21 feet from you? Wouldn't that put it outside the defensive perimeter?
I don't know- does the bear have a knife or a tire iron?
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A professional with a knife could kill you, starting from 30 feet away, before you could draw your weapon. Working in a prison has made me much more fearful of a knife over any gun.
The idiots who decided on 21 feet have obviously never been in battle.
this is accurate
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Don't be so hard on Steve. When it comes to BS, he is profoundly familiar.
Well. if you are implying that I post a lot of untrue stories, feel free to point out one.... just one. I hear the crickets warming up already. :)
Txmom, I love ya :aok
OTOH, if I made a mistake about Hornet, let him post the police report and I will, without hesitation, eat humble pie. There's simply no way a police report would not be filed in a situation like this, AFAIK. So Hornet, please post it, I am prepared to offer my sincere regrets.
Steve
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There is always a few willing to give up every right and every freedom at the drop of a hat because they are afraid of standing up.
They don`t waste their time behind trees. The neon gives them away.
Yep.......libs fear just about every thing.
Their greatest threat is themselves.
Not too hard to identify in a crowd though. the pink scarves give them away.
You have anything but hate speech for people of a different political view or should I save myself the trouble and put you on the ignore list? :huh
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Well. if you are implying that I post a lot of untrue stories, feel free to point out one.... just one. I hear the crickets warming up already. :)
Txmom, I love ya :aok
OTOH, if I made a mistake about Hornet, let him post the police report and I will, without hesitation, eat humble pie. There's simply no way a police report would not be filed in a situation like this, AFAIK. So Hornet, please post it, I am prepared to offer my sincere regrets.
Steve
*crickets*
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A professional with a knife could kill you, starting from 30 feet away, before you could draw your weapon. Working in a prison has made me much more fearful of a knife over any gun.
The idiots who decided on 21 feet have obviously never been in battle.
What would you consider an appropriate distance in determining an imminent threat? 30 feet? 50? I can hit a man sized target with a pistol at 50 yards, thats 150 feet. There had to be a reasonable distance set, too close and the law is useless, it allows the attacker to get too close. Too far and it would allow some nutjob with a rifle to go on a sniping spree. 21 feet, for ordinary everyday life, is a reasonable distance.
I've no doubt about the lethality of a thrown knife at 30 feet, but I'm wondering on the chance of encountering one of these knife throwing criminals in day to day life. There would seem to be a greater chance of a knife armed assaliant planning to get up close and personal rather than throwing his weapon at you.
As far as the "never been in battle" part ... this ranks in the top 10 of the most retarted things I've read today. The law wasnt made for battle, it was made for civilians, in everyday life. It was made to take the guesswork out of "Is this a imminent threat or not?". Inside 21 feet and behaving in a threatening manner, yes, it is a threat. 22 feet? Take a step closer.
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"the "knife attack from 30 feet" thing doesn't refer to knife-throwing... it's about being rushed.
I've seen this demonstrated to local cops at my ex-girlfriend's TKD dojong... cop didn't have a chance. Even if he got a shot off, he still would have been cut deeply :(
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I never said anything about the knife being thrown. It's obvious you have never had any training in law enforcement.
Someone who just got out of prison can be very dangerous with a knife.
P.S. Battle: a combat between two persons
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I was responding to Coshy, Xargos.
[edit: Never mind.. I guess you were too.]
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Maybe you'd like to try a course in comprehensive writing. Because that statement right there is so far out of left field it doesn't really make sense. A threat is not defined by distance. A threat is defined by actions. Someone shouting at you while you are in your car is not a threat, no matter the distance. Someone standing there "blocking" your car is not a threat, no matter what the distance. If you have time to turn around, open a center console, take a gun out, place it on the dash and look back... there wasn't much of a threat. All of the "WTG!" and "well done!" in the world won't change that. All of the tape measures in the world won't change that either.
Actions are the demonstration of intent, distance is the deciding factor in wether a threat exists.
Here are a few examples since you seem to be a little slow on the uptake.
A guy brandishing a knife 3 blocks away telling me to give him my wallet is no danger to me. The same guy who gets 7 steps away from me while still carrying/brandishing/weilding the same knife and demanding I give him my wallet IS a threat. The difference ... distance.
Someone standing within arms reach of me with two friends of similar intent, while I'm seated in my car, threatening to kick my bellybutton is a threat. The same guy, with the same friends, saying the same thing, on the other side of the parking lot is not a threat. The difference ... distance.
Lets look at my original statement that you seem to not understand. I wrote "I can't speak for Virginia, but here in West Virginia anyone within 21 feet can be considered an threat."
I didnt write 'anyone within 21 feet IS a threat.'.
"... can be considered ..." I'm not sure how much clearer or comprehensive I can be. If the guy in Hornets account was just standing there next to the drivers window reading a magazine I wouldn't consider him a threat. If he is standing there threatening to kick my ass, I'd consider him a threat, especially if my only viable route of escape is blocked by one of his friends.
Distance is as important as actions in determining a threat.
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Dux, Xargos,
I incorrectly assumed you were refering to a thrown knife, not someone rushing. And you both are right, someone rushing from 30 feet doesn't give enough time to draw and fire accurately. The only hope would be identification of the threat and preparing yourself (i.e. reaching inside your jacket for your sidearm).
The term battle conjures up images of soldiers and warfare, not being assaulted as you put groceries in your car.
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No problem Coshy. I'm just sensitive on this subject because I watched an inmate die from a shank and I wasn't able to do a damn thing about it.
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Actions are the demonstration of intent, distance is the deciding factor in wether a threat exists.
It's a factor... not "the deciding factor". Actions are the deciding factor.
A guy brandishing a knife 3 blocks away telling me to give him my wallet is no danger to me. The same guy who gets 7 steps away from me while still carrying/brandishing/weilding the same knife and demanding I give him my wallet IS a threat. The difference ... distance.
Excellent example. With one minor exception... the main criteria is "brandishing a knife" and not how far away he is. This makes the statement "anyone within 21 feet can be considered a threat" a bit invalid. You're saying "anyone with a knife within 21 feet can be considered a threat" now.
Someone standing within arms reach of me with two friends of similar intent, while I'm seated in my car, threatening to kick my bellybutton is a threat. The same guy, with the same friends, saying the same thing, on the other side of the parking lot is not a threat. The difference ... distance.
Alot of assumptions there, especially how the story was told. Once again, these people let him turn to his center console, get out a gun, display it on the dash and then ran off. You maintain they were a threat when there seems to actually be little evidence of it as told by the original story teller. Especially given that the story teller felt it was safe enough to stick around sitting in his car.
Lets look at my original statement that you seem to not understand. I wrote "I can't speak for Virginia, but here in West Virginia anyone within 21 feet can be considered an threat."
I didnt write 'anyone within 21 feet IS a threat.'.
Nope... but you did use the word "anyone". How about this: "Someone you consider a threat must be within 21 feet of you before you do anything". You see how this actually says what you describe in later examples? The fact that not just anyone can even be considered a threat makes your initial statement someone stupid.
Once again, learn comprehensive reading because your explanations said something completely different than your statement.
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What if it's greater than 21 feet from you? Wouldn't that put it outside the defensive perimeter?
Walk closer to its' body to meet the 21' provision. Leave nice heavy footprints after you pick up your ejected brass and throw them down at the new spot ;-)
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Well. if you are implying that I post a lot of untrue stories, feel free to point out one.... just one. I hear the crickets warming up already. :)
Txmom, I love ya :aok
OTOH, if I made a mistake about Hornet, let him post the police report and I will, without hesitation, eat humble pie. There's simply no way a police report would not be filed in a situation like this, AFAIK. So Hornet, please post it, I am prepared to offer my sincere regrets.
Steve
Hmmm...Police Reports' have a lot of sensitive info in them. I don't know if I myself would post one, even on this forum, Steve. That might be asking for a little too much...
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Hmmm...Police Reports' have a lot of sensitive info in them. I don't know if I myself would post one, even on this forum, Steve. That might be asking for a little too much...
This forum has a long history of people making claims like this. It sounds like BS to me as well.
He could take a black marker and mark out the personal info and it would be good enough.
Hell he could even provide the local PD number and an officer who he talked to.... or maybe Charon will track one down like he did the last time crap like this got posted.
lol
Either way he is the one making the claims, if he can't or won't prove it... well that says enough.
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duh
Ok, I give up. You win at the internets.
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First off there is no police report. The reason being is A. I didn't break any laws therefore I wasn't charged with anything. B. I didn't press any charges on the three thugs that threatened me because they didn't touch me or do any damage to my personal property. They were arrested on unrelated charges after the officers went over to talk to them and since I wasn't the cause or involved with their eventual arrest I have no accesss to that police report since it's none of my concern. The deptments internal logs would probably show that a stop was made looking for a firearm, but that is not something I would be able to get my hands on, again because I have no need for that log.
Also even if there was a police report and I had a copy I'm not stupid enough to e-mail a copy to anyone, let alone post it on an internet forum. I worked Law Enforcement for 5 years in the Coast Guard. Passing around info that can and would be used as evidence in court is the fastest way to blow a case for the prosecution. For people on this forum who think they are so smart and know something about everything, they should know better than to even ask for something like that.
To those that doubt what happened, well opinions are like arse holes, everyone has one, and your entitled to yours. It happend to me, I posted about it, and that's it. I've posted before about that club, the people that hang out there, and similar issues I've had when going into my local 7-11 because of that club. That post made it's way into this thread, I guess in an attempt to debunk my story, but it actually proved my point of this being an ongoing problem there.
I didn't post looking for atta boys, or sympathy, I just wanted to let everyone know what happened. I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment, I exercise my rights under the 2nd, and this time I honestly believe that it saved me from serious harm.
Did I do everything right?? Nope I sure didn't. I made mistakes. The situation caught me off guard and I could have handled it better than I did. Many of the posts made by folks in here pointed those mistakes out for me, and for that I thank those people. I learned something, I didn't get hurt, I didn't shoot anyone, everything is good. If I ever find myself in a situation like that again, hopefully those little leasons I learned from this one will help me to handle the next one better. Hopefully it never happens again.
Those of you that want to call BS, well go right ahead. I'm to old to worry about it and the last thing I "need" to do is prove anything to anyone on this forum. For those that gave me constructive opinions, thanks.
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First off there is no police report.
Of course there's no report, cowboy. Hard to make a police report for somethign that didn't happen.
Also even if there was a police report and I had a copy I'm not stupid enough to e-mail a copy to anyone, let alone post it on an internet forum. I worked Law Enforcement for 5 years in the Coast Guard. Passing around info that can and would be used as evidence in court is the fastest way to blow a case for the prosecution. For people on this forum who think they are so smart and know something about everything, they should know better than to even ask for something like that.
Psst redact. That is, if the events fantasized about had actually happened. :aok
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It always gets better when someone gets overly specific in an attempt to explain way too much after getting overly detailed with a description.
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Well lets asks the police officers on this forum a question. You get a call about someone with a gun. You find the person, find the gun, and find that the person has a valid carry permit. Do you write a police report about it??
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Officers spend most of their time writing reports, they're not going to write one if they are not required to do so, depending on their stations policy. Officers also do not like to put too much information in their reports, because many times defense lawyers try to trip them up on the wording and details of the report. They like to keep them as simple as possible.
If the report thing is bothering you, just get a copy of the arrest report of the guys that the cop got after he spoke with you. I highly doubt your name would be on it, more then likely he simply would state he responded to a tip. The report would only support the time and place of the incident for you.
You could also get a recording of the 911 call of the person reporting you.
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OK, I looked it up.
Violent crime rate as of 2006 was 473.5 per 100,000.
This means of course that you were actually off by .... well.... a grip.
Actual numbers are 4.7 per 1000 not 50. And most certainly not 250.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
Still waiting for the opportunity to accept your apology.
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MT.. the numbers are indeed 4-6 people per thousand are victims of violent crime every year. the numbers are also 1 in four chance in your lifetime... which is what I said is it not? lifetime.. year.. kinda different.
the seatbelt thing? Like I said... who knows if your life woulda been saved.. they have no clue.. do they do recreations of every wreck? It matters not tho.. how many of you have been in wrecks where a seatbelt saved your life? even with gross exaggeration.. it just doesn't happen. Not to one if four in a lifetime.
Two wrecks I have been in and airheads wreck would have all been listed as "life saved by seatbelt" except.. we weren't wearing the frigging seatbelts.
How do they come up with the numbers? why they guess.. not a reasonble guess based on case by case or even a group of cases at random but.. by saying.. X amount of less people died for X amount of miles.. Lots of other factors to consider.
I am waiting for you to say you are sorry MT.
lazs
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Your chances of being in a wreck where a seatbelt will save your life is tiny.. Your chances of being the victim of a violent crime is one in four.
lazs
Lifetime huh? You must have used the invisible ink for that one.
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Here is a good study for lifetime victim rate.. DOJ
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE1DF133DF936A25750C0A961948260
Now.. you can link me to a study that shows what your chance is of being saved by a seatbelt in your lifetime.
All we care about is our lifetime after all.. not the chances each and every year.
I will wait for your seatbelt numbers and proof and for you to say you are sorry.
lazs
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http://www.trafik.gov.tr/english/traffic_safety/traffic_safety_usage_of_safety_belts.asp
Here's one.
Three pointed seat belts decrease serious injuries for people travelling in cars by 45% and in lorries by 60%.
Where 24.8% of people wearing seat belts overcome the accidents without any damage in mortal accidents, the same rate for the ones that are not wearing seat belts is 6.3%.
In advanced researches, it has been found out that use of seat belts in the back seat prevents 2/3 of death and injuries that occur in the back seat and 6% of deaths in the front seat.
In all serious injuries, back seat seat belts decrease the severity of the injury by 50%. (1)
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MT...Lasz...Nice hijack! :aok
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MT...Lasz...Nice hijack! :aok
Carefull, you might get hit in the purse crossfire :D
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Carefull, you might get hit in the purse crossfire :D
:rofl
(Ducking to avoid flying compacts, lipstick, ridiculously large keychains, tinkerbelle pens, and tampon applicators)
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I am waiting for you to say you are sorry MT.
lazs
Still waiting for the opportunity to accept your apology.
MT
Love means never having to say you're sorry.
Ali MacGraw
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Oh yeah Jackal?? You think I'm a whimp or something? How bout I come down to your house and we see how tough YOU are? Just PM me your address, fella...I double dog dare ya. :mad:
SOB, in case Jackal gives me his address, can I borrow your spider monkey?
Just get in the Lake Tawakoni Texas area and ask for Motorcycle Jack.
In all fairness I have to warn you though on the grounds of fair play.
I have attack guard parakeets. One attack parakeet can take down 3 or 4 spider monkeys.
I have to admit though I can`t throw them as fast as I used to..........but they be packin heat.
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You have anything but hate speech for people of a different political view or should I save myself the trouble and put you on the ignore list? :huh
Do your self a favor and put me on ignore list. I wouldn`t do it intentionaly, but without thinking I might post some mean old text that would scare you. I hate "hate speech". The boogey man gonna get ya<---------hate speech.
Phffffffffffftttttttttttttttt! How utterly PC what...eh.
I would appreciate no further interruptions at least until I can get these online forms filled out applying for CCWs for my attack parakeets.
I don`t know what day Airhead on gonna show up ya know.........and someone probably WILL loan him a spider monkey just for the heck of it.
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well the thing was going nowhere.. lot's of accusations of story fabrication. I don't want to speculate on that part of it.. I have no idea if it is true or not...I replied to the people who thought it was paranoid to even have a gun or carry it with the facts that it was less paranoid than wearing a seatbelt.
Now.. MT.. I did not say lifetime.. that is true.. I said "ever". Now, in the context of humans.. would "ever" mean to you.. a year in their life or.. well... ever?
I like your link... "lorries" That would be trucks to us Americans. No stats for what your chances of being saved by a seatbelt in your lifetime... "ever" are tho eh? It is all a guess but you are unlikely to ever get into a wreck where a seatbelt will save your life.
My stats show what your chances of being a violet crime victim are in your life.. in some cases it is like 80% but the wussy seatbelt sissies wont show their data.. only what they speculate will be your chances if you are in potential fatal (as defined by.. nothing) wreck. The best they do is show fatal accidents and who was and wasn't wearing the things and go from that.. In that case.... everyone died..seatbelts or no..the only thing you can say is if you are in a fatal car wreck.. you will die 100% of the time.. seatbelts or no. You can only guess as to what that works out to on non fatal car wrecks.
But.. I will let you guys get back to the real gist of the thread... is he lying or not?
lazs
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OK, I've got SOB's spider monkey- I traded my Nerf football for it. Monday I'll take a bus to Texas.
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I accept your apology.
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But.. I will let you guys get back to the real gist of the thread... is he lying or not?
lazs
What he described certainly could have happened. Unless you've an axe to grind with someone what's the point in calling them a liar even if you believe their story unlikely?
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Iron.. I agree but that it the way this thread was going.
For me tho.. the thread was about.. well.. thank god for my CCW.. that if he didn't have a gun he would have been a victim of a violent crime.
Many here are so blind to the risks of violent crime that it is insane. Yet.. the cram their thumbs up their butts.... put a big grin on their face.. and buckle up.
lazs
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I'm trying to follow the logic of some of you here- Drive by shootings are a problem...therefore, we should make it easier for people to transport handguns in their car???
I'm sorry, but I'm just not "getting" it....How will more people carring guns decrease the number of road rage shootings???
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Cars need to be outlawed if drive-by shooting are such a problem. There is nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing the right to own a car.
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I'm trying to follow the logic of some of you here- Drive by shootings are a problem...therefore, we should make it easier for people to transport handguns in their car???
I'm sorry, but I'm just not "getting" it....How will more people carring guns decrease the number of road rage shootings???
The number of road rage shootings by people carrying handguns is insignifcant. Drive by shootings aren't road rage and are far greater in numbers. Who knows if drive by shootings will be impacted by more people carrying? That isn't a reason to carry a gun. Car jacking is though and the number of those will undoubtedly go down if more people carry.
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airhead.. I know that it may seem counter intuitive.. that asking the question you asked.. would make a good standup routine or.. with the right faces.. in front of the "right" audience... make a good jon stewart show (the jon stewart when the writers are not on strike) but.....
the evil old facts just get in the way. millions of people have CCW and they simply do not add to the "road rage" that you feel is part of everyday life. In fact.. they are more polite and law abiding than even pot heads. Or union members or.. well.. everyone.
Sooooo.. counter intuitive or not.... an armed society is a polite society.
A good example can be seen in Israel lots of citizens carrying guns. they never had much problem with the citizens but they were bright enough to recognize that they couldn't keep the guns out of the hands of the bad guys.
Put even more simply... what gun control laws do you think would stop drive by shootings? cut off a hand maybe? if you make the laws.. the penalties that is.. draconian enough.. you can radically reduce the crime.. look at some of the drug laws in asian countries...
We could stop pot use with public beheadings for example. Or booze.
They have no real use. A case can be made for guns helping those who could not otherwise defend themselves tho.
lazs
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I'm trying to follow the logic of some of you here- Drive by shootings are a problem...therefore, we should make it easier for people to transport handguns in their car???
I'm sorry, but I'm just not "getting" it....How will more people carring guns decrease the number of road rage shootings???
If I get this straight, you are against the transporting of any weapons' in a vehicle, because they MAY lead to some kind of shooting, right?
By that logic, we will have to heavily regulate/outlaw the use of plastic cutlery or carpet knives'. Or, outlaw air travel, alltogether.
No matter how many laws' you write, how restrictive you try to make them, there will always be someone out there who breaks' them. Hornet followed the law, and because they AREN'T restricting his ability to defend himself, his story has a somewhat happy ending. However, threatening to assault Hornet IS breaking the law. Why don't we propose some kind of 'Human Decency' law, then? That's how far the "WE NEED TO OUTLAW THIS" mentality goes. Once you start thinking that we are obligated to go on some kind of crusade to make the world kiddie-proof, we've pretty much made it unlivable.
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OK, I've got SOB's spider monkey- I traded my Nerf football for it. Monday I'll take a bus to Texas.
Uh Oh. I got to check on the progress for the parakeet applications................. and while I`m at it I`m going to look into the laws concerning spider monkey transportation in Texas.
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Put even more simply... what gun control laws do you think would stop drive by shootings?
My answer to that question, seriously, would be that no law, or anything else for that matter, will completely stop drive bys or any other criminal gun related actions. The best shot at it from my view is the ones being discussed such as CCWs, or in my state`s case, allowing the citizens to carry a gun in their vehicle. I believe it will significantly reduce them. At the very least it allows the public the chance to defend themselves against such crimes instead of putting the citizens at the mercy of the criminals without a level playing field.
Without the ability to legally carry people either have to make the choice of taking their chances and hoping they luck out....or being prepared and putting common sense over laws that pave the way and make it easy for the gangers and other violent activities.
The dealers, the gangers, the violent organizations and the loonies have had and will continue to have weapons to use against the public. Laws are not in the program. For me, I prefer a shot at a level playing filed.
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Do your self a favor and put me on ignore list. I wouldn`t do it intentionaly, but without thinking I might post some mean old text that would scare you. I hate "hate speech". The boogey man gonna get ya<---------hate speech.
Phffffffffffftttttttttttttttt! How utterly PC what...eh.
I would appreciate no further interruptions at least until I can get these online forms filled out applying for CCWs for my attack parakeets.
I don`t know what day Airhead on gonna show up ya know.........and someone probably WILL loan him a spider monkey just for the heck of it.
Cool, I kinda saw this coming anyways. You can't learn civil discourse your not worth my time.
Well shoot, can't find the ignore list like it was before the bbs switch. wonder if we've lost that ability.
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You can't learn civil discourse your not worth my time.
Being PC is not my bag. Keep looking or just stick your fingers in your ears. Both will work for you.
If Someone expressing their views concerning freedom/rights of any kind including gun in unPC terms (read that truth)......or if you can`t comprehend what was actually happening when you started whining, then I suspect you need to find that ignore switch at all costs.
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There is no more ignore function, Bongaroo...That means you HAVE to read all Jackal's posts!
MUAHAHA!!!!
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There is no more ignore function, Bongaroo...That means you HAVE to read all Jackal's posts!
MUAHAHA!!!!
I have a scroll wheel and I know how to use it. ............................b ut don`t let everyone in on that little secret.
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Deleted.
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airhead.. would you say that you are living in paranoid, cringing fear by wearing a seatbelt?
Your chances of being in a wreck where a seatbelt will save your life is tiny.. Your chances of being the victim of a violent crime is one in four. Yet.. you buckle up like some scared lemming.. believing the tall tales of all the socialists and hand wringers here who "claim" to have had their lives saved by seatbelts..
Thousands upon thousands of hours with a stiff uncomfortable seatbelt eating into your tender neck.. unable to move around in your own car.. tied to the seat.
One of my guns is no more trouble to carry than a cell phone.
lazs
It's an illness I guess. Just couldn't let it go.
You never say "EVER" either. But you are the king of spin Lazs, and I salute you for that skill.
BTW your chances of being in a car wreck in your lifetime is almost 100% (go ahead, look it up).
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There's a difference in a civil discussion and being PC. You simply won't get it. Your loss.
No big deal on the ignore, it was a handy feature when you found someone about as useful to the message boards as a bump on a log. :rolleyes:
Didn't really mention anything about PC, but I guess Jackal wants to just make things up. Whatever.
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You don`t need a CCW for the use of a scroll wheel. Try it.................or you could continue to whine over something that you don`t even understand.
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LoL, for the sake of my humor we'll keep going. What do I not understand? That for some god awful reason you hate someone with a different political viewpoint? That instead of providing evidence and reason to the argument you resort to name calling and a superiority complex?
Again, too bad about the ignore feature as it was handy but I do agree, my scroll will keep moving past your worthless posts.
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Let`s see.
So in other words you do not like my opinions ands views concerning CCWs and the way I express them.....right?
They differ from yours and are expressed in non PC terms and that upsets you.
The important thing here is that you have totally lost track of what the thread is about and at what point you started whining..............when you didn`t know what was going on.
I stand up for the right to own/carry with or without a CCW, such as the case in my state concerning vehicle carry. I express those views.
I haven`t seen anyone ask for everyone to be forced to own or carry. It`s a matter of choice.
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well.. for my part.. I don't "hate" people with other viewpoints but if they try to force theirs on me then they are the enemy.
If you just want to discuss it... that is different.. I can always use a good laugh.. it gets serious when you think you have the right to vote away or take away my rights.
lazs
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<S> laz, at least you provide reasons and evidence to support your views. You aren't even all that offensive!
Jackal, quote my whine! c'mon lets see it!
All I've done is call out your hate speech and asked to keep it civil. I guess thats asking too much from a great example of a conservative amerikan huh?
Sorry for the hijack, I'm dropping it.
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Jackal, quote my whine! c'mon lets see it!
Whines would be a better word. You are on the third page of it and still going strong.but here is the original....
You have anything but hate speech for people of a different political view or should I save myself the trouble and put you on the ignore list?
If you are scared of my views concerning CCW and other topics then follow your own statements.......ignore it......or stick your head in the ground.
Like I said PC is not my bag especially when it comes to people wishing to deny my rights.
If someone doesn`t wish to own or carry it is not required. Just don`t ask me to not disagree when it comes to opinions that are way too liberal for my beliefs.
The weak, the scared, limp wristed views of those that wish to deny me of those rights and rights of others make me want to hurl as stated.
There is no hate speech involved. It is just the facts concerning my opinion on these subjects. I reserve that right.
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If I get this straight, you are against the transporting of any weapons' in a vehicle, because they MAY lead to some kind of shooting, right?
Nope- not at all. You can transport as many guns as you want provided they aren't assessable to the driver or passengers, and are unloaded. My objection are to people who carry a gun in their car without a permit, provided we can presume a permit means you've had some training in the safety and handling of a firearm. There is absolutely no reason to have a firearm in your car as you're buzzing down the freeway, and because driving is a priveledge you have no more right to carry a concealed weapon in your car than you do to carry an open container of alcohol in your car.
The concealed laws we have now only deter the "honest" people from carrying a concealed weapon in their car because if caught (in the absence of the gun being stolen, or brandishing) all that'll happen is you'll get a slap on the wrist.
Anyways I didn't author this thread and I don't feel insecure to the point I feel the need to arm myself, but if you really want to end road rage shootings, drive bys and the like the obvious and most simple solution is to put people in prison for 5 years who get caught with a concealed weapon on their person.
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There is absolutely no reason to have a firearm in your car as you're buzzing down the freeway, and because driving is a priveledge you have no more right to carry a concealed weapon in your car than you do to carry an open container of alcohol in your car.
As it stands now that is true for some states, but not all.
In my state you do have the right to carry a concealed weapon in your vehicle.
I believe other states are soon to follow.
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And in some States you can carry an open beer in your car too. Where we lose our priveledges is when people abuse those priveledges- I would love to see us (as a society) backpedal to the days of individual responsibility. I have no problem with Lazs carrying a gun- he's not likely to get ruffled enough to shoot a motorist for cutting him off on the freeway, and he's not a gang banger, so knowing Lazs I'm confident his firearm is for self protection.
The question, in my mind, is who Lazs loses his former "rights" to- he'd say he loses his rights because of the Government but I think he loses his rights because of the actions of his fellow citizens. The Government is simply the messenger saying "We're getting too many drive-bys" or "We're getting to many serious injuries in car crashes" and they're acting accordingly to address that issue, be it through gun control or seat belt laws. I'll guarantee you that if we didn't have road rage and drive by shootings we wouldn't have more Draconian gun control laws.
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The question, in my mind, is who Lazs loses his former "rights" to- he'd say he loses his rights because of the Government but I think he loses his rights because of the actions of his fellow citizens. The Government is simply the messenger saying "We're getting too many drive-bys" or "We're getting to many serious injuries in car crashes" and they're acting accordingly to address that issue, be it through gun control or seat belt laws.
And on the same note the message was sent perfectly loud and clear to our state`s leaders that we wished to have our right to carry. The law was brought back out of the dark ages recently to reflect that.
A small step in the right direction, but at least it is a good beginning IMO.
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And in some States you can carry an open beer in your car too. Where we lose our priveledges is when people abuse those priveledges- I would love to see us (as a society) backpedal to the days of individual responsibility. I have no problem with Lazs carrying a gun- he's not likely to get ruffled enough to shoot a motorist for cutting him off on the freeway, and he's not a gang banger, so knowing Lazs I'm confident his firearm is for self protection.
As soon as you get the violent criminals to stop carrying guns, I'll stop too. Tell me, if you pass a million guns laws, how many violent criminals will obey them? Other than disarming the general populace so the criminals have an easier time of brutalizing the sheep you would create, what do you think laws restricting transport of usable guns will accomplish? Seriously? I'd like an answer from you.
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Hornet,
One was "standing behind the truck so you couldn't back out"?
My weapon wouldn't have even seen the light of day. :rofl
Reverse lights are probably the last thing that guy would've remembered seeing (possibly the click of shifting gears might be the last thing he heard, also) Then your path home would've been clear.
Well met, sir. I was stationed at Ft. Eustis for a time, and I know the area is rough at times.
Good thing you didn't need to fire upon them. Blood and brains are hard to clean out of upholstery, and bullet holes tend to ruin the resale value of trucks.
:salute
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As soon as you get the violent criminals to stop carrying guns, I'll stop too. Tell me, if you pass a million guns laws, how many violent criminals will obey them? Other than disarming the general populace so the criminals have an easier time of brutalizing the sheep you would create, what do you think laws restricting transport of usable guns will accomplish? Seriously? I'd like an answer from you.
First a disclaimer: I have no problem with CCWs and feel that a clean background check and completion of a weekend course (or however long) any citizen should be allowed to get one.
Two things would be accomplished if we increased the penalties for thoce caught carrying a concealed weapon illegally- It would cut down on the number of road rage shootings and it would give our judicial system another weapon to use to keep dirtbags off the street.
Now Steve, I have a question for YOU- Why do you need a firearm in your car if you're going down the freeway at 80mph? I read The Armed Citizen in the American Rifleman, but rarely, if ever, are those cases more than stopping a home invasion or a burgular.
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First a disclaimer: I have no problem with CCWs and feel that a clean background check and completion of a weekend course (or however long) any citizen should be allowed to get one.
Two things would be accomplished if we increased the penalties for thoce caught carrying a concealed weapon illegally- It would cut down on the number of road rage shootings and it would give our judicial system another weapon to use to keep dirtbags off the street.
Now Steve, I have a question for YOU- Why do you need a firearm in your car if you're going down the freeway at 80mph? I read The Armed Citizen in the American Rifleman, but rarely, if ever, are those cases more than stopping a home invasion or a burgular.
Well, hopefully I'll never need a gun anywhere, freeway or otherwise. What about carjacking? I have to drive to get to the freeway on side streets. Or do you want me to stop on the onramp and disable my gun?
I really don't think we are too far apart in our views. If I have trouble on the freeway at 80 MPH, certainly I'm not going to pull out a weapon and start firing but if, I'm on the freeway, I must be going somewhere. In my job, I sometimes go to blighted areas of town. Am I to disable my weapon for the freeway then re-assemble it on the offramp? Put it in the trunk for highway driving?
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Hornet,
One was "standing behind the truck so you couldn't back out"?
My weapon wouldn't have even seen the light of day. :rofl
Reverse lights are probably the last thing that guy would've remembered seeing (possibly the click of shifting gears might be the last thing he heard, also) Then your path home would've been clear.
Well met, sir. I was stationed at Ft. Eustis for a time, and I know the area is rough at times.
Good thing you didn't need to fire upon them. Blood and brains are hard to clean out of upholstery, and bullet holes tend to ruin the resale value of trucks.
:salute
Yeah but I would have been charged with hit and run, vehicular manslaughter, who knows what else.
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Two things would be accomplished if we increased the penalties for thoce caught carrying a concealed weapon illegally- It would cut down on the number of road rage shootings and it would give our judicial system another weapon to use to keep dirtbags off the street.
Nope..absolutely not. The criminal does not bother to abide by laws.
Laws do not apply to them. Laws only apply to the law abiding.
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Nope..absolutely not. The criminal does not bother to abide by laws.
Laws do not apply to them. Laws only apply to the law abiding.
Shhhhh (don't tell anyone) :noid
I agree with Jackal, 100%.
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Nope..absolutely not. The criminal does not bother to abide by laws.
Laws do not apply to them. Laws only apply to the law abiding.
Then why have laws at all?
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Then why have laws at all?
To keep lawyers in the courtroom and away from good people like yourself :)
-Sik
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You pass the bar yet ? Can we commence with the lawyer jokes?
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OK, maybe 75%
Mostly the part about hurting the law abiding more.
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You pass the bar yet ? Can we commence with the lawyer jokes?
I don't get my results for another 2.5 weeks.
-Sik
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Then why have laws at all?
To empower and protect the law abiding citizen, not the criminal.
Bans , restrictions calling for gun control only apply to the law abiding and empower the criminal which do not take any law into consideration .
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Hornet, check pm's.
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PS... by that logic, they could have shot hornet.
Dunno about that if Hornet never pointed the gun in their direction or said I am gonna shoot you. They can't do sh*t about it. They were never put in a position to have a reason for their self defense. Lets keep in mind Hornet did not approach them they approached him. Just by placing a gun on a dashboard doesn't mean anything. He could've been getting ready to go in his house. I know I don't leave my service pistol in my car when I go inside.
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You need to read up a little bit on what consitutes a threat and "brandishing a weapon". If they'd have pulled a gun, but not pointed it at hornet, do you think he'd be justified in "defending himself"? Only one person pulled any kind of weapon out.
And... let's keep in mind... hornet is telling the story.
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You need to read up a little bit on what consitutes a threat and "brandishing a weapon". If they'd have pulled a gun, but not pointed it at hornet, do you think he'd be justified in "defending himself"? Only one person pulled any kind of weapon out.
And... let's keep in mind... hornet is telling the story.
The flaw in that argument is not what you know, but what you don't know.
"IF" they'd have pulled a gun, Hornet WOULD have not only been justified in pulling his, but ordering said gunman to drop the weapon, or open fire. However, none of the guys' surrounding Hornet's truck did. But can Hornet have assumed they didn't have some sort of weapon??? That is the real crux. In today's day and age, you cannot assume anything anymore, unfortunately. To put it this way...Do you think they would have approached the truck if THEY had known Hornet had a gun? I doubt they would have; The only reason they approached him in the first place was because they had strength of numbers (3-1) and had a clear advantage in any kind of physical confrontation. Not to mention, That by surrounding his truck, the one thing known about the whole affair, was THEIR intent. Which was to entrap Hornet for whatever they intended to do. Sufficient reason for Hornet to clear leather. And evidently, the PD thought so, as well.
BTW, it doesn't matter WHO's telling this story. The situation as described was handled in what was probably the best way possible-nobody was hurt, and nothing was taken.
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If hornet pulls a weapon, they can defend themselves. If he's dead, who's story is told?
You guys are all missing the point. Introducing a handgun to the encounter is not something that is done to scare someone away. Either the situation merits it's use, or you keep it tucked away. Having a closed car door between you and them has removed them from being a threat.
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If hornet pulls a weapon, they can defend themselves. If he's dead, who's story is told?
You guys are all missing the point. Introducing a handgun to the encounter is not something that is done to scare someone away. Either the situation merits it's use, or you keep it tucked away. Having a closed car door between you and them has removed them from being a threat.
A.) They instigated, by surrounding him, and verbally threatening him. Hornet's draw was in Self-defence.
B.) If it hadn't have scared them, someone coulda got shot. "Scaring" them into considering a more prudent and less-violent course of action is morally much better than taking another human life, ya think? Sometimes, that is the best use of a firearm. By your reasoning, If a police officer draws' his sidearm, he should just start shooting, without giving the perp a chance to surrender.
C.) The main fault of a car door is the window. If that is broken, and that person can reach you, you are in a severe disadvantage in any kind of physical encounter. Your body is more or less stuck in a sitting position, without the ability to manuever. You can't use your legs' for any kind of leverage, your reach is limited by how far you can stretch outside the door, and you cannot retreat. This is why so many carjackings' were successful. And lastly, if one of them had a gun, most car doors' don't stop bullets very well. Hornet would have had to made sure that if he was shot at, he could rapidly dispatch the gunman, for he was at a disadvantage in any kind of gunfight, as well.
BTW, from Hornet's original post:
He checks everything out, calls in my ID and CCW info, comes back clean and in order, then he asks me what happened. I told him what went down, and that's when he informed me that the guys giving me all the crap where the ones who called the police. I looked over and they were still standing there on their cell phones. I pointed them out to the police, and they told me they would go over and have a little chat with them. They gave me back my CCW, and ID told me to have a nice evening and left. I stayed there leaning against my truck and watched as the officers went over and started questioning the three guys, and had to laugh when the officers both drew their firearms and told them to get on the ground. One of them had a gun on him at that point, and he was arrested. The other had a bag of "something" in his pocket and he was arrested, and the third guy ended up getting arrested for something, not sure what, but they had anouther cruiser show up with two more officers to take him away.
Now, in this case, even the one who had a gun ran. Most likely because the others' bolted first, and he didn't wish to face Hornet by himself, because now it was an odd's-even fight. Hornet pulling first most likely saved his life.
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Well,
I sent Hornet a link by PM that I think he could've used to prove/support this story, and nothing heard.
I now have to raise the BS flag, which is unfortunate.
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A.) They instigated, by surrounding him, and verbally threatening him. Hornet's draw was in Self-defence.
No offense Frode but you are mistaken. If this had actually happened, Hornet committed a crime. He did not draw his gun in self defense. There was no immediate threat of serious bodily harm pending as the "assailants" had displayed no weapons of their own and Hornet was in his vehicle, able to avoid the conflict by simply locking his car doors. Let me be clear: Hornet did not pull his weapon in self defense, from a legal standpoint.
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My guess is, that it might be up in the air in a court of law, Steve. That, due to the Verbal threat, and the situation (Hornet had no avenue of escape, save run over the guy in back of him.) Thus, he had very few options' in the situation.
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My guess is, that it might be up in the air in a court of law, Steve. That, due to the Verbal threat, and the situation (Hornet had no avenue of escape, save run over the guy in back of him.) Thus, he had very few options' in the situation.
Again, no offense but you are mistaken. The law is clear. Unless the assailants were actually trying to break into his vehicle, which they weren't, or unless they constituted an immediate threat of great bodily harm, which they weren't, Hornet is not legally allowed to threaten deadly force and that is exactly what he did when he pulled his weapon. Hornet committted a crime.
Hornet had no avenue of escape
Actually, by getting in his vehicle, he had already escaped since no weapons or intent to break in the vehicle were displayed by his assailants.
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Steve one of the guys was standing behind his truck, blocking the way, from what he said.
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Steve one of the guys was standing behind his truck, blocking the way, from what he said.
It doesn't matter. Once he entered his vehicle, he was not in imminent danger.
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I can't speak for Virginia, but here in West Virginia anyone within 21 feet can be considered an threat.
I enjoy researching law. Interestingly enough, there is no mention of 21 feet anywhere in the entire West Virginia code.
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I enjoy researching law. Interestingly enough, there is no mention of 21 feet anywhere in the entire West Virginia code.
I looked for that myself shortly after this thread. I'm not sure where the NRA instructor came up with the figure. I'm wondering if this is a case of incorrect info being passed along as fact.
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I'm wondering if this is a case of incorrect info being passed along as fact.
Dang, that would be a bummer for his classes. Imagine if someone actually got in a tight spot and used the 21 foot rule to make a decision.
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Dang, that would be a bummer for his classes. Imagine if someone actually got in a tight spot and used the 21 foot rule to make a decision.
Even worse, imagine that all he had was a metric tape measure!
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Well,
I sent Hornet a link by PM that I think he could've used to prove/support this story, and nothing heard.
I now have to raise the BS flag, which is unfortunate.
And you think he is bound or compelled to verify anything to you why?
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He can't verify. Had the events actually occurred, the police would have turned their back on a gun crime... a little unlikely.
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He can't verify.
He has no need to verify.
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u duh man hornet! :aok :salute
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He has no need to verify.
It didn't happen. There's nothing to verify
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It didn't happen. There's nothing to verify
Well that settles that then. <insert sarcasm tag here>
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Well that settles that then.
yep, glad to see you finally actually read what others typed.
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yep, glad to see you finally actually read what others typed.
<Insert big silent sarcasm tag here>
I have seen no verification to the contrary.
Especially not from you with the spouting off about something you seem to know very little about.
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Dang, that would be a bummer for his classes. Imagine if someone actually got in a tight spot and used the 21 foot rule to make a decision.
He has a class in a few weeks that my fiancees father and I offered to help out with. I'm going to talk with him about it then. I'm thinking he meant it as a 'rule of thumb' rather than part of the legal code (which is how he presented it). I'm curious how he explains it.
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<Insert big silent sarcasm tag here>
I have seen no verification to the contrary.
Especially not from you with the spouting off about something you seem to know very little about.
Know very little about? I did my homework on the related laws. all you did was assume a total stranger was telling the truth in a highly unlikely scenario. Obviously, I know a lot more about it than you do.
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If the police are called about someone pulling a gun, they arrive in force. They don't send a single cruiser. At least... not anywhere I've ever lived (Texas, Mississippi, Colorado, Idaho, Oregon). They don't have a casual conversation with the person that brandished the weapon. They don't say "oh... that was a really good reason" then go arrest someone for calling him names. Of course, gangstas with outstanding warrants, guns, knives and drugs don't hang out as police are arriving either.
What this wreaks of is someone that wanted to come up with a good story that highlighted the coolness of a CCW. Maybe it's because he's had the CCW for a little while yet and hasn't had a reason to use it and thought "hey.. this would be a great reason to use it." I dunno, but the story is off on so many facets that it's not even remotely believable. There's no need to "disprove" it. There are no aspects of it that are even feasible.
All the "wtg" gives people the impression that this was a good thing. It was not. Anyone thinking they could do the same thing whenever they see some gangstas is going to be in for a rather rude awakening... if they survive... as that's just the beginning of the poopstorm that's coming.
The scenario, as described, was weak and would result in the person that pulled the weapon getting charges pressed on him a rather large majority of the time. Please don't think otherwise.
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There are no aspects of it that are even feasible.
The scenario, as described, was weak and would result in the person that pulled the weapon getting charges pressed on him a rather large majority of the time. Please don't think otherwise.
Thank you! I knew I couldn't possibly be the only one that saw how this would turn out, had it actually occurred.
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You weren't the only one.
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You weren't the only one.
:aok