Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Modas on April 16, 2008, 11:03:10 AM
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Picked up my G19 yesterday :D I really wanted a 1911 but I needed something my wife could handle at the same time.
Messing around with it yesterday (unloaded) I came to the conclusion... Could Glock have made the slide release any smaller??? Good grief. Can any Glock shooters out there share any insight to this? Should i upgrade the slide release to something bigger, or is this something I'll get used to?
I really had to work at getting that puppy to release. I can't imagine doing it with gloves on.
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You could do the Springfield XD slide release upgrade. ;)
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The XD is more comfortable to aim and shoot with it's grip angle than the Glock. Both are very dependable. The release is better on the XD.
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The Glock is fine; I have an old 17 myself. I do like my XD better though.
Oh, one thing about the slide release and the wife using it. I have noticed that women seem to have a bit of a problem with any small slide release on a semi. My hobby job is working at a large retailer of firearms and I show a lot of pistols to women; their thumbs don't have the reach and thus they don't get the leverage.
You might check out that aspect with your wife. If she does have trouble, you might want to check into a factory extended slide release. They're out there for about $20.
You can see the ext release in this wmv http://www.topglock.com/media/7496_mrs_150.wmv
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Just teach her to use a 2 handed rack and don't bother with the slide release.
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Just teach her to use a 2 handed rack and don't bother with the slide release.
When the clip empties the slide locks open. So she still has to use the release or fully rack it when another clip is in.
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Im a big glock fan and have carried one of some type(22 27 or 35) on duty for years. I have never trained to even use the slide stop lever so it never really bothered me. The only time i do use it is for locking the slide to the rear when unloading. It is tiny and i found a replacement for the 19 here.
http://www.parts.cc/glock/Parts_Acc/slide_stop_Lever.htm As toad said its bout 20 bucks
I agree with pyro and was trained tap/rack so i stick with it. Was told as a baby police man that it was better to use as it was a gross motor function vs a finite motor skill. I dont know if this is true but it works for me
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Semi's can be tough for some women. Most do OK if they use an two handed opposed motion to rack it. Some of them can't even get that very well though. Of course, a lot of them have trouble with the release too so.... I often recommend a revolver. :)
A big part of the problem is that many women DO NOT want a hot chamber lying around the house despite the multiple internal safeties on the Glocks, XD's, S&W M&P's etc. If that's a given, then they HAVE to cycle the action before use. Tough to make some of them change their minds on this.
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Picked up my G19 yesterday :D I really wanted a 1911 but I needed something my wife could handle at the same time.
Messing around with it yesterday (unloaded) I came to the conclusion... Could Glock have made the slide release any smaller??? Good grief. Can any Glock shooters out there share any insight to this? Should i upgrade the slide release to something bigger, or is this something I'll get used to?
I really had to work at getting that puppy to release. I can't imagine doing it with gloves on.
Yep, you are absolutely right here in your assessment. The Glock's slide release is AWFUL! It is HORRIBLE.
Fortunately, it can be easily replaced The best replacement Glock Slide Release on the market is the one that I have on my Glock that is made by ARO-TEK.
Here is a photo of a customized Glock 26 with it installed:
(http://www.arotek.com/images/products/picture156.jpg)
The ARO-TEK release is super easy to use. Much better than the standard release on any other gun on the market today.
It is a shame that Glock does not correct this shortcoming with the factory slide release. But for $36, you can replace it with the best slide release on the market today.
See: http://www.arotek.com/
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(http://www.arotek.com/images/products/picture156.jpg)
That has to be the ugliest gun I have ever seen. It just needs some neon, a big wing, and a nissian skyline to ride around in. A pink one.
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Dont even use the slide release. Instead, just pull back on the upper reciever when its locked back and it will release the slide forward. I have a Gloc 23C and I love it. Way better than the M9 I had to carry around! :aok
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NM I are the tard
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(http://www.arotek.com/images/products/picture156.jpg)
That has to be the ugliest gun I have ever seen. It just needs some neon and a big wing, and a nissian skyline to ride around in. A pink one.
Well, the grip does look a bit odd, but that is only because the magazine was removed from the gun in the photo.
What specifically is ugly? Do all of you think that extended barrels are somehow ugly??
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Well, the grip does look a bit odd, but that is only because the magazine was removed from the gun in the photo.
What specifically is ugly? Do all of you think that extended barrels are somehow ugly??
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Riddle me this ltardtard, doesnt the extended barrel defeat the concealability a bit?
Still, what isnt ugly about it? The sites, the fan boy barrel, the stainless mag release..... it all screams I am ricer who owns guns.
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(http://www.arotek.com/images/products/picture156.jpg)
That has to be the ugliest gun I have ever seen. It just needs some neon, a big wing, and a nissian skyline to ride around in. A pink one.
I kinda gotta go with GtoRA2 here. That gun does look a bit on the smurfy side. Specifically the front & rear sight, extended barrel, slide & mag release. However, unlike large wings, coffee can exhaust tips and 22's, the additions to the gun do improve its performance, so I can see why they were added.
It does look like something you would expect to see on "The Fast & The Furious: Ricers on patrol"
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(http://www.arotek.com/images/products/picture156.jpg)
That has to be the ugliest gun I have ever seen. It just needs some neon, a big wing, and a nissian skyline to ride around in. A pink one.
Those sights' look kinda ackward for a quick-draw, to me.
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I'll stick with my M1 carbine with the 15-rnd mag pouch on the buttstock, that jams every 4th round. Call me old-fashioned.
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I'd call you a person in need of either gunsmith or a new magazine.. maybe both! :aok
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Riddle me this ltardtard, doesnt the extended barrel defeat the concealability a bit?
Still, what isnt ugly about it? The sites, the fan boy barrel, the stainless mag release..... it all screams I am ricer who owns guns.
The Glock 26 barrel is only 3.46 inches. Adding another half inch with an extended barrel thus still leaves the gun under a 4 inch barrel length. So no, concealability is still no problem with the gun.
Virtually all of the leading practical pistol competitors use extended barrels on their competition guns. Would you call them a "ricer" to their face?
Here is a nice handgun cutomized for unlimited OPEN IPSC competition:
(http://www.drslpc.com.au/newsite/files/images/30.jpg)
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The Glock 26 barrel is only 3.46 inches. Adding another half inch with an extended barrel thus still leaves the gun under a 4 inch barrel length. So no, concealability is still no problem with the gun.
Virtually all of the leading practical pistol competitors use extended barrels on their competition guns. Would you call them a "ricer" to their face?
Here is a nice handgun cutomized for unlimited OPEN IPSC competition:
(http://www.drslpc.com.au/newsite/files/images/30.jpg)
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Competition........Home Defense.......No comparisons between the two. It is ugly and too small for me.
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Just teach her to use a 2 handed rack and don't bother with the slide release.
This applies to you also. I use to carry a Glock 19 for CCW carry. I still do some times. The Glock series of pistols are pretty good the way they come from the factory. My only hang up with them has to do with the trigger that feels like one of those cheap dart guns you might have played with as a kid and the sights being off for me.
I say sights being off for me because of my grip. There is not a whole lot of weight on the bottom of the pistol and it is very easy to twist the pistol ever so slightly to the left when I fire. This throws my shots about six inches to the left at 25 feet. A simple tap over job on the sights brings my shots to the center. I did this because you need to have the same grip for every pistol, so in this case I adapted the gun to me, instead of the other way around.
As for the slide release and the mag release being small. There is a way around this..two ways really. For the slide release as pyro suggested simply rack the slide during the reload process rather than pressing the slide release. This is a better habit to get into anyways, because when the gun is dirty and you use the slide release there are times the slide will not move all the way forward. Causing you to "tap" the back of the slide forward to move the slide into its full position. By reaching up with you loading hand and pulling the slide back and letting it slam froward on it's own you are making sure the slide is in its full froward position by force.
There are a lot of websites out there that will sell you grip plugs, extended slide releases, extended mag releases..ect. You do not need these things. Male or female. My wife has a Glock 26 that is bone stock and she operates/shoots with without a problem.
When I get home I will have my wife take some pictures of what I am talking about. I will show you a pretty much a fail safe way to do a quick reload and bring the weapon quickly back into action no matter what condition to weapon is.
One question, is your G19 a new gun? If so do you have the new "drop free" mags?
Ironicly enough I happen to be carrying my Glock 19 today. Mine is pretty new. I have an older one. This one I picked up last year. It has factory night sights (which work wonderfully). I have provided pictures of what the old mags look like versus the new mags. If you have the old style mags don't worry. They are fine. They are just not drop free mags like the new ones are. However the old ones still should drop free most of the time if they are empty. The mag loaded in my Glock 19 right now is an old style mag. I have two new mags in my mag holders as back ups.
You will have to forgive the quality. I took these just now at work and edited them with paint to show the difference between the old mags and the new ones. For reference the feed ramps on the new mags are slightly bigger and sit higher up in the mag. This gives the bullets a different feed angle. However as I said before this does not matter, as the old style mags are just as reliable as the new ones.
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q15/Kegger26/glock1.jpg)
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q15/Kegger26/glock2.jpg)
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q15/Kegger26/glock3.jpg)
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q15/Kegger26/glock4.jpg)
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q15/Kegger26/glock5.jpg)
I will take those grip photos tonight and upload them for you. It should help you over come that small slide release problem you are having. It will also help you clear a stuck mag in the mag well. Have fun with your new Glock. They are good little shooters.
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For the slide release as pyro suggested simply rack the slide during the reload process rather than pressing the slide release. This is a better habit to get into anyways, because when the gun is dirty and you use the slide release there are times the slide will not move all the way forward. Causing you to "tap" the back of the slide forward to move the slide into its full position. By reaching up with you loading hand and pulling the slide back and letting it slam froward on it's own you are making sure the slide is in its full froward position by force.
One question, is your G19 a new gun? If so do you have the new "drop free" mags?
Thanks Guys -
the g19 is brand new (I think gen 3 frame with the rail for accessory mounts). I'm not familiar enough with the pistol yet to quite understand what you mean when you say "rack the slide during reload". After the last shot, the slide stays back. I was under the impression the only way to release the slide after putting in a new magazine was to press the slide release. Can the slide be racked (farther back) when its in the open position?
I don't plan on tricking it out with all sorts of accessories. I'll put night sights on it, and maybe a tactical light on the rail. I'm still up in the air on the light. I prefer to keep it simple. In a stressed situation, the less crap to worry about the better.
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Yes, pulling back a bit further on the slide and releasing it will chamber a round after inserting a new magazine.
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The slide will lock on the last round. If you insert a new loaded mag, you can pull the slide back and then either let it slide forward on it's own or guide it forward (keeping your hand on it). You do not need to use the slide release. I have a Taurus with a rather large slide release that is nearly impossible to actually release the slide with. This method is necessary.
I recomend against adding anything to the mass of the gun. Night sights are fine, but adding anything that would/could cause the gun to get hung up on something just isn't worth the risk. Fancy sights go on target pistols, not self defense weapons. As sleek as possible should be the rule.
LTARGlok.. that pistol pictured has so much added to it that you could have gone up to a larger model and had it be much more practical, less likely to hang up on something and be more controllable while still being the same size as that gun (with attatchments).
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I started out carrying a Glock 17 for duty. Later on I got a 19 for off duty as it was basically about the same size as my Officers model, It shot so nice that I started carrying it for both on and off duty. I had to get the slide chromed as the stock black treatment developed wear spots pretty badly after a few years.
I also have a 26 and a 27. If I were to carry either one of those I'd not put any extentions on them as the best feature they have is the compact size. If I needed a barrel extension I'd be better off carrying the 19 again. I do not put any after market bling sights on any of my "serious" weapons. In extremis you won't likely see the rear sight anyhow. Just seeing the front will get you in the ball park for snap shots. If you have time to aim carefully the stock sights are fine.
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When I used to shoot a 24C (longest Glock made with a ported barrel) in competition I never used the slide release. Slap the mag in and the slide falls off the slide catch. Most Glocks I ever shot did this pretty easy but were used every week. Some with only a few 1000 rounds might not be so willing.
I second the "drop free" mags. If you ever have to change a clip in a hurry you dont want to be fumbling around trying to strip the old one out.
Strip
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When at slide lock, always rack the slide to chamber a round, never use the thumb to release the slide lock. At least that is what Glock factory reps will teach at their courses. The reasoning is the little bit of extra compression on the recoil spring and extra inertial force will ensure the slide going to full battery and less chance for the top round in a tight magazine from stopping the correct functioning of the firearm. Also, racking the slide is a "gross motor skill", where the using the thumb to release the slide lock is a "fine motor skill". And fine motor skills are reduced in high stress situations....
Terror
-Glock Factory Certified Armorer
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Competition........Home Defense.......No comparisons between the two. It is ugly and too small for me.
Ah, put you are not paying attention here. I did not mention some type of handgun target type competition like the Olympic International style events, or the NRA's Bullseye type competitions, which are both simply about skill and accuracy. People use guns specifically designed to just accurately punch holes in paper for those types of target shooting events.
Practical Pistol is about combat shooting. It is designed specifically to improve combat skills. You even have to use ammunition that meets specific power ratings. Now there are many subcategories within Practical Pistol. They can range from only allowing pistols that are exactly as they came from the factory, without any changes at all, to the OPEN category, where just about anything goes.
So technology developed for Practical style competition most definitely can be useful for real world self-defense.
You would seem to argue that handgun technology remain static, and not advance at all.
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Yes, pulling back a bit further on the slide and releasing it will chamber a round after inserting a new magazine.
While all of this is true, it is also true that it takes more time and effort than just using the slide release button.
It take no more effort for me to release the slide, than it does to press the magazine eject button. In fact, probably less effort.
And since my left hand is busy inserting the new mag, I can ready my thumb over the slide release, so that the instant the mag is inserted, the slide will go forward and reload the gun.
Now if someone does not have a very well coordinated thumb, then I suppose this other technique would be better.
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I know a guy with uncoordinated thumbs..... he was hitch hiking from Houston to Oklahoma and ended up in Kalifornia.
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As for the slide release and the mag release being small. There is a way around this..two ways really. For the slide release as pyro suggested simply rack the slide during the reload process rather than pressing the slide release. This is a better habit to get into anyways, because when the gun is dirty and you use the slide release there are times the slide will not move all the way forward.
Glocks are well known for functioning just fine even when extremely dirty. Your reasoning here has absolutely no hard basis in fact, in my opinion. And any responsible gun owner keeps their gun cleaned and well lubricated.
In my opinion this is still a workaround. And one that can be easily avoided with a minor upgrade to the gun.
As for the mag release, Glock themselves make a longer model that is easier to use. That is a Glock part that one can readily obtain from dealers, and install. The fact that Glock makes a longer mag release button shows that there is indeed a market for such a product.
Here is a photo of my Glock 17, showing both the ARO-TEK slide release button, as well as Glock's own longer mag release button installed:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/glockbuttons_on.jpg)
Note that I opted to buy the slide release in a standard blued finish, rather than the bright stainless option the other custom gun that I posted earlier had on it.
Here is another photo showing the super recoil absorbing recoil guide and spring system that I added to my Glock. It actually uses a total of 3 springs to further absorb recoil, as there is also a third one INSIDE the actual guide rod assembly.
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/glockspring_on.jpg)
Finally, here is an overall photo of the gun:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/glock2online.jpg)
You will have to forgive the quality.
The only problem I see here with the quality of your photos is that they are very badly out of focus. The exposure itself looks fine. If your camera has a macro mode, then you should be able to easily correct this with a little practice in using it. Now if your camera is older and does not have a macro mode with a manual focusing option, then perhaps it is time to consider an upgrade to a new camera.
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Ah, put you are not paying attention here. I did not mention some time of handgun target type competition like the Olympic International style events, or the NRA's Bullseye type competitions, which are both simply about skill and accuracy. People use guns specifically designed to just accurately punch holes in paper for those types of target shooting events.
Practical Pistol is about combat shooting. It is designed specifically to improve combat skills. You even have to use ammunition that meets specific power ratings. Now there are many subcategories within Practical Pistol. They can range from only allowing pistols that are exactly as they came from the factory, without any changes at all, to the OPEN category, where just about anything goes.
So technology developed for Practical style competition most definitely can be useful for real world self-defense.
You would seem to argue that handgun technology remain static, and not advance at all.
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Why are trying to explain this to me? You are now backpedaling and playing the "semantics game". Again, "Competition shooting" and "I bought a handgun that my wife and I can use" are two ENTIRELY different things.
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There are many forms of shooting that require a normal conceal carry gun. My uncle used to compete with a P7 in IPSC and IDPA. When he got done shooting he would reload the hollow points and pull his shirt out. He still carries it with his CC permit. A few of our friends also shoot there CC guns in competions.
IMHO There are ways CC and competion can coexist
Strip
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Thanks Guys -
the g19 is brand new (I think gen 3 frame with the rail for accessory mounts). I'm not familiar enough with the pistol yet to quite understand what you mean when you say "rack the slide during reload". After the last shot, the slide stays back. I was under the impression the only way to release the slide after putting in a new magazine was to press the slide release. Can the slide be racked (farther back) when its in the open position?
I don't plan on tricking it out with all sorts of accessories. I'll put night sights on it, and maybe a tactical light on the rail. I'm still up in the air on the light. I prefer to keep it simple. In a stressed situation, the less crap to worry about the better.
The most life saving accessory one can get is a Crimson Trace Laser, which requires no extra switches of any kind to be flipped in order to activate. I managed to buy mine for only $169.95, which is no more expensive than what a lot of pistol flashlights cost.
You will be able to shoot far faster and with greater accuracy at night with a laser, than you will with any traditional type of sight. And since the Crimson Trace attaches to your grip, you can still add a flashlight to your accessory rail too, if you so desire.
The Crimson Trace actually enhances the feel of the Glock grip also, in my opinion.
http://www.crimsontrace.com/
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Why are trying to explain this to me? You are now backpedaling and playing the "semantics game". Again, "Competition shooting" and "I bought a handgun that my wife and I can use" are two ENTIRELY different things.
I will try my best to make my point as clear as possible for you, so that there is no further misunderstanding within our conversation.
My Glock is a COMBAT pistol. It is designed for one purpose only: To delivery deadly powerful bullets quickly and accurately in a COMBAT situation. It is NOT a competition gun.
Practical Pistol shooting is COMBAT type shooting. Advances in technology developed for that sort of competition shooting are certainly applicable to self-defense pistols also. Not all competition shooting is the same. If you were a marksman who had actually participated in any of these different types of competitions that I described ( as I have ), you would be aware of these major differences.
To install firearm enhancements like better controls, enhanced barrels, or improved recoil springs is not tricking a gun out or making it a "ricer's gun", as some have said here. It is simply using the latest gun technology to improve the performance of the weapon.
If you and others want to shoot plain factory guns, that is perfectly fine with me. But don't any of you here claim that such enhancements are somehow bogus for personal defense weapons, or only belong on firearms meant for competition.
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While all of this is true, it is also true that it takes more time and effort than just using the slide release button.
It take no more effort for me to release the slide, than it does to press the magazine eject button. In fact, probably less effort.
And since my left hand is busy inserting the new mag, I can ready my thumb over the slide release, so that the instant the mag is inserted, the slide will go forward and reload the gun.
Now if someone does not have a very well coordinated thumb, then I suppose this other technique would be better.
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That is all fine and well in theory, but all of that goes out the window when bullets are flying past your head. You shoot with both hands I assume. It is no faster it hit the slide release than it is to continue your hands already in action upward movement to reach up and rack the slide. This pretty much guarantees the weapon will be ready to fire.
In the past I have had Glocks that were dirty that the slide did not move all the way forward after hitting the slide release. The "extra step" of racking the slide further back and letting it go ensures that the slide will be full forward and seated.
In truth this is not really an extra step and with practice this move and the move I make to strip empty mags from my auto pistols goes a long way towards ensuring your weapon will function, clean, dirty, wet, muddy, bloody, no matter the condition. As I said later on tonight I will take some photos of my hand movements doing these actions so you can better understand what I am saying here.
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Glocks are well known for functioning just fine even when extremely dirty. Your reasoning here has absolutely no hard basis in fact, in my opinion. And any responsible gun owner keeps their gun cleaned and well lubricated.
In my opinion this is still a workaround. And one that can be easily avoided with a minor upgrade to the gun.
No offense, but where I come from the only guys that hang all that crap and make all those changes to their weapons are the lazy types that think all those CDI points are going to make them shoot better. In reality the only true way to become better is though training.
What are you going to do when you find yourself on the ground fighting for your life, your gun possibly covered in mud, dirt or blood (or any combination of the three)? Do you think simply pressing the slide release is going to guarantee your weapon is going to go bang when you pull the trigger after the reload?
The things you do at the range are a breeze. You may never have to deal with such a situation in your life time, but what if you do? In those types of situation things never work flawlessly. I have read the AARs from hundreds of shootings and nothing ever goes right or works like clock work.
You have to have an extended slide release, extended mag release and a laser to make you shoot better. You have to build the gun around you. That is thinking backwards. I can pick up a Glock, ANY Glock and shoot circles around you because of better training. Not because of neat gadgets and gizmo's. Hopefully the day will come when you wake up and realize you don't need all that crap to help you shoot better, all you need is to train better. Just an observation is all.
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My Glock is a COMBAT pistol. It is designed for one purpose only: To delivery deadly powerful bullets quickly and accurately in a COMBAT situation. It is NOT a competition gun.
Your gun is for show, not combat.
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I will try my best to make my point as clear as possible for you, so that there is no further misunderstanding within our conversation.
My Glock is a COMBAT pistol. It is designed for one purpose only: To delivery deadly powerful bullets quickly and accurately in a COMBAT situation. It is NOT a competition gun.
Practical Pistol shooting is COMBAT type shooting. Advances in technology developed for that sort of competition shooting are certainly applicable to self-defense pistols also. Not all competition shooting is the same. If you were a marksman who had actually participated in any of these different types of competitions that I described ( as I have ), you would be aware of these major differences.
To install firearm enhancements like better controls, enhanced barrels, or improved recoil springs is not tricking a gun out or making it a "ricer's gun", as some have said here. It is simply using the latest gun technology to improve the performance of the weapon.
If you and others want to shoot plain factory guns, that is perfectly fine with me. But don't any of you here claim that such enhancements are somehow bogus for personal defense weapons, or only belong on firearms meant for competition.
I have a USP 45 that is JUST AS "reliable" as your Glock. ALL handguns are meant for the "potential use of deadly force".
Again, you are trying to justify the "greatness of modding a gun". Lasers look cool, but I'm sorry, I don't need a laser to hit my target. A ported barrel vs standard barrel is a straw-man argument at best. You attempting "to sound superior" because you have a laser on a pistol is laughable at best. My USP fits my hands, I didn't need to mod anything. I "combat rack" as well and rarely use the magazine release. If you are in possession of a "Combat pistol", you should know this.
BBBB, you and I are starting to mend the fence. Your posts are dead on.
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<Plunks down the cooler, unfolds the chair, tosses a few shrimp on the barbie>
Who'd a thunk it? Purse fight in a pistol thread.
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The most life saving accessory one can get is a Crimson Trace Laser, which requires no extra switches of any kind to be flipped in order to activate. I managed to buy mine for only $169.95, which is no more expensive than what a lot of pistol flashlights cost.
You will be able to shoot far faster and with greater accuracy at night with a laser, than you will with any traditional type of sight. And since the Crimson Trace attaches to your grip, you can still add a flashlight to your accessory rail too, if you so desire.
The Crimson Trace actually enhances the feel of the Glock grip also, in my opinion.
http://www.crimsontrace.com/
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You read tons of Guns and ammo right?
My Glock is a COMBAT pistol. It is designed for one purpose only: To delivery deadly powerful bullets quickly and accurately in a COMBAT situation. It is NOT a competition gun.
I love this line, I may make it my sig, for some reason it just makes me giggle.
It may be designed for combat, but with all the dodads on it, it sure is good for getting you laughed at on the boards. :rofl
ok putting the purse away ;)
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To install firearm enhancements like better controls, enhanced barrels, or improved recoil springs is not tricking a gun out or making it a "ricer's gun", as some have said here. It is simply using the latest gun technology to improve the performance of the weapon.
This is a quote of an article written by a man named Skip Gochenour for the National Tactical Invitational news letter. I am posting it here because in this case it is very relevant to the conversation.
WARRIORS AND EXPERTS NEVER CHANGE
Experts on gizmos and gadgets have always existed alongside warriors. The former enjoy promoting themselves to their audience by explaining their knowledge of the latest technology, gizmo or gadget will provide the means of prevailing in an encounter. The latter understands that a plan, driven by boundless will and spirit, augmented by skillful use of a chosen and practiced weapons systems is superior to any expert's new toy.
DAVID AND GOLIATH
Sunday school tells us of the boy David who slew the giant Goliath with a slingshot. The real story is far more interesting and reveals a relevant lesson. The historical David was a warrior of great personal skill and courage. Always under manned and under gunned, he used his most dangerous weapon, (his mind), and his most powerful weapon, (his will and spirit) to defeat more powerful enemies, throughout his long career. But first there was Goliath.
Goliath, a Philistine, was over seven feet tall. Some scholars believe that Philistines were a Germanic tribe that made a wrong turn. Philistines knew how to make weapons of iron. All other groups in the area had bronze weapons. This included the army of Saul. Goliath's suit of mail (body armor) weighed over 100 pounds. The iron point of his spear weighed over 12.5 pounds. The army of Saul and the Philistines found themselves on facing mountainsides with a valley between them. As was the custom of the time, each family provided supplies to serving family members. David, the youngest, was sent with provisions for his three enlisted brothers. Upon arriving he witnessed Goliath descend to the valley and challenge anyone to engage him in personal combat with the result of the fight determining the outcome of the battle. All in Saul's army, including the weapons experts were afraid. Astonished, David asked how long this insulting behavior had gone on. He was told, morning and evening for 40 days. David was infuriated. He told Saul that no man of worth would put up with such conduct and that he would fight Goliath. Saul reminded him that he was a boy and a Shepherd and that Goliath had been a trained fighter since his youth, which was long past. David noted that as a Shepherd he had alone faced lions and bears that had tried to pilfer the herd. Goliath could be no more dangerous.
Saul sent for his experts who promptly dressed David in a suit of mail, helmet, metal shin guards, sword and shield. He was given all sorts of advice on how to use the latest weapons. After giving them a try, he cast them aside, commenting that he had not proven himself with them. He went to a streambed and carefully selected five round smooth stones for his sling. The sling was an important weapon from the Bronze Age until the 17th Century, even among the world’s armies. With much practice a slinger could deliver accurate fire at today's moderate rifle ranges. Very accurate fire could be delivered at handgun ranges. Dressed in ordinary clothing and carrying a plainly visible staff, David concealed his sling in his hand. He moved into the valley and called out a challenge to Goliath. Goliath was predictably insulting, commenting that he was demeaned that a boy with a stick was sent to fight him. Goliath moved to meet David. Goliath was wearing armor, a sword, and a spear for thrusting. Seeing David's staff, Goliath sent his shield carrier on ahead. He fell for part one of David's tactical plan. David quickly closed the distance between himself and Goliath to where he was confident of his accuracy. He prepared his sling, threw the stone and struck Goliath in the forehead. Goliath fell to the ground. Rapidly covering the remaining distance, David took Goliath's own sword and severed the giant's head. David prevailed because he executed his plan with audacity, will, and determination. By constant training, he knew how to employ and effectively use his chosen weapons system. David was not seduced by the experts on gizmos and gadgets who display their lack of self confidence by believing that items are more important than skill, training, will, and spirit.
David will not be at N.T.I.. There will be many men just like him, testing himself. Come join them and learn to be like David!
Glock, while I am sure you could tell us about all the latest laser and flashlight combos for your gun and how adding another inch to a Glock 26 is still more practical than using a Glock 19 instead, this guy asked for help on how to solve what is most defiantly a training issue. A problem that can be fixed for free, without him having to buy a six dollar part and having it installed for him by a gun smith that will go on to charge him 50 dollars.
By definition a funny car is a car, but I bet you wont ever see one in a grocery store parking lot, picking up the groceries. The word I am thinking about here is "suitability". Just because you can do something, doesn't mean it is in your best interest to do so.
Modas, I got home late. I will take the photos before work in the morning and post them when I get to work. Cheers.
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I can pick up a Glock, ANY Glock and shoot circles around you because of better training. Not because of neat gadgets and gizmo's. Hopefully the day will come when you wake up and realize you don't need all that crap to help you shoot better, all you need is to train better. Just an observation is all.
Just who is acting superior here now, with your boast-ful statements that you have made here??? You don't know a thing about me personally BBBB, yet you so forcefully claim here that you can shoot circles around me. Well, your statement is actually probably most very true, since your groups would indeed most likely be CIRCLES around the much tighter groups that I would shoot.
For your info, I started shooting handguns at 15 years old. I've probably fired far more handgun rounds in .22 LR, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9mm, .357 magnum, .40 S&W, and .45 Auto over the last 40 years than you will possibly ever dream of shooting. By 18, I was rated Expert in NRA Bullseye Competition, and my family wanted me to seriously pursue the sport. And you know why? Because not one, but TWO cousins on my father's side of the family had won National Bullseye Pistol Championships at Camp Perry. However, I started college and got involved in doing other things in life besides shooting.
I learned pistol shooting from my cousins and father, and also got tips from Bob Chow, who also gunsmithed the Bullseye pistols that I competed with. Bob was a US Olympic team competitor in rapid fire pistol, and also a friend of my cousins. I'm sure that you got much better training when you first learned pistol marksmanship.
Anyway, you can keep both your boasts and also all of your advice to yourself. I respect the opinions of a great many other pistol shooters, but I certainly don't respect your opinions that you have expressed here.
To Modas: Forget everything that I have said earlier to you in this thread, as I obviously don't know a single stupid thing about handguns. Tell yourself that there is nothing at all wrong with the slide release on the Glock, and that there is no need to be concerned at all about it. You were most likely dreaming when you thought that it was difficult to operate. All you need to do is to simply train more with your Glock, and the slide release will then become much easier for you to use.
P.S. -- You know BBBB, I never bragged in any of my earlier posts in this thread about being a great shot. Nor did I belittle anyone for not doing anything to enhance their guns, the way that you and others have so unfairly criticized me here in this thread. I only shared my experience with how I've customized my Glock, as I thought that fellow firearms enthusiasts might be interested in what I've done with it. Obviously, I was very wrong about the type of folks that frequent this forum.
P.P.S -- I really have nothing further to say to you BBBB, .......... ( I had to remove the rest of this sentence, since it most likely violated forum rules )
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this guy asked for help on how to solve what is most defiantly a training issue. A problem that can be fixed for free, without him having to buy a six dollar part and having it installed for him by a gun smith that will go on to charge him 50 dollars.
I believe that he commented that the slide release was very small, and thus difficult to operate. I then explained that he could replace it with a much larger and more ergonomic release, that would be far easier to use. But then again, I am an idiot that knows absolutely nothing about handguns, and cannot shoot worth a lick. You, in comparison, know absolutely everything.
Modas, I got home late. I will take the photos before work in the morning and post them when I get to work. Cheers.
Let's hope that you get some training real soon on how to properly use your camera, and that you are able to post some photos that are not so extremely blurred as the earlier ones that you posted.
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the best lifesaving device you can get for any gun is a crap load of ammo.
take said crap load of ammo out and go practice with it..
Practice point shooting.. go shoot jacks and gophers on the run with some friends with it. draw and fire at stuff from 7 yards and 25 yards and then try some 100 and 200 yard shots.. limp wrist the gun and figure out how to get it unjammed... shoot enough and you will get to do real jam exercises with semi autos.
If after all that you think you need a buck rogers laser and an extra inch of barrel.. so be it.
If can't feel confident with every gun you own.. get rid of some or get some more practice.
I don't care if it is my PPK in .32 or makarov or 4 inch 44 redhawk mag or 340PD 12 ounce 357 or 45 kimber or 45 cz.. they all work.. I trust em all to a large extent. the revolvers more tho... They are all "custom" in that they have grips that work for me (grips are those things guns used to have for your hands for you glock guys). They have the sights I find useful.. none have laser sights tho.. I learned how to point shoot a long time ago.
lazs
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The XD is more comfortable to aim and shoot with it's grip angle than the Glock. Both are very dependable. The release is better on the XD.
My wife has a full-size Glock (22, I think) and she loves it. (The job she had mandated a .40/10mm or better--no 9'mm's) Now she wants a .45 sub-compact, but she HATES the XD, grip just doesn't suit her hand---Smith makes one she's quite enamored with
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That pretty much reflects the comments I've had when showing the Glocks, XDs and M&Ps to women at the gun counter. The guys are all over the map; some pick one, others pick another. Women, however, seem to favor the M&P grip with either the small or medium insert.
Heck, I have big hands and I favor the medium insert. Something about the large insert just doesn't feel right to me. I've put my palm on it but I can't put my finger on it. ;)
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Glok, my point is I don't need replacement barrels, extended slide releases, extended mag releases, lasers, compensator's, replacement guide rods and springs to make me a better shooter. I can go out and buy a Glock from the gun store and shoot just as well with it that same day as I can with my own gun that I have owned for years. Because, I have eliminated the need to add things to guns to make up for my lack of understanding and operation of the weapon.
You can toss out all the insults and innuendos you want. How I shoot a camera has nothing to do with my knowledge or skill level handling a firearm. The fact that you would connect to two, further shows your clear ignorance on the subject.
If you had taken the time to go out and get some real training, I have no question your instructor would have told you to remove that grip laser. It has been proven time and time again, what you do in practice raises its head in a shooting situation. You can think you will be cool, calm and collected all you want. It has been shown time and time again, even with people who have been in multiple shoot outs in their life time. Cool, calm, collected, all go right out the window when the bullets start flying.
Assuming you live though the first critical half second and can engage your attacker, you body has already went into a predatory mode if you will. You have already received your bodies adrenaline dump, your hands will start to shake, your eyes are darting back and forth rapidly, which is leading to tunnel vision, your chest muscles tighten up and breathing becomes labored. Sounds become muffled, lights become dimmer. Time it's self seems to slow down.
Situational awareness goes right out the window, a simple, what would seem like the natural act of finding cover is like doing trigonometry on the fly. Muscle memory is going to kick in. You will find yourself holding the weapon like you did at the range, in your case you are going to be looking for that little red dot from the laser, and here is where we reach a critical point.
What happens if that laser fails? You have spent most of your time shooting, by using that laser. I am sure your response is going to be "just switch to the sights". It is not that easy. Most people in a shooting do something called "point shooting" or "instinctive shooting". This is where you don't aim with the sights, but quite literately, reactively, point the weapon at their attacker and fire. Some will even tell you that they didn't even take the time to look at the sights, it was all just a reaction.
So lets get back to that laser. Your laser in effect can be used for point shooting. However it is not foolproof. What happens if it breaks? Now your just winging it. I am sure in your little high speed-low drag world you will kill the bad guy without even batting an eye or breaking a sweat. Which is fine by me.
However, when someone comes in here and asks for advice and all you can do is snatch race gun photos from the internet and tell him how he needs to add this laser, that extended mag release and that extended slide release. All you are doing is further complicating the matter. He is very obviously a new gun owner and operator.
You used the mall ninja/high speed gun store employee routine on him. More to say "look at me and what I got" than to really help. A good, responsible, knowledgeable gun owner/operator, would have told him to practice a lot, learn to overcome his problem and if that still doesn't work then maybe make changes to the weapon to better suit his needs.
If you knew more about Glocks than just hanging crap off of them, then you would know a few hundred rounds though the Glock 19 loosens everything right up. From the slide release, to the slide it's self. In your world the single most important life saving device is a crimson trace laser slapped on your pistol. In my world the single most important life saving device is training and knowledge. That pretty much sums up what I said above and what you have shown here. I don't need to know you personally to know the type of shooter you are. Your words here have spoken volumes about the type of shooter you are.
Modas, check your PMs
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Don't forget practice, practice, practice. :)
You wouldn't believe how many folks I deal with that want to buy a gun for the first time and just one box of ammo because "i'll never ever use all 50 anyway." :rofl
Takes a while to convince them that they either don't need a gun at all or they will be buying a whole lot more ammo sooner or later.
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Most people in a shooting do something called "point shooting" or "instinctive shooting". This is where you don't aim with the sights, but quite literately, reactively, point the weapon at their attacker and fire.
The only way to really learn this is to practice. Dry fire drills can help when you cant get to the range.
I have a STI with a Cmore on top and some day i practice without the dot. Also i have a stripped down ruger mk2 that has no sights for learning to become a better point shooter.
We had a range shoot with some of my friends a couple weeks ago. I placed a nice small steel 5 target course up for the fun of it. During the 3 days my best time was 2.93 with the no sight ruger.
Lasers, dots and iron sights go out the window when your life depends on it.
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I used to compete with "combat pistol shooting" all the way back to the early and middle 70's. In the beginning it was a nice way to practice at something other than plain paper targets at known ranges. It didn't take long to turn into a gamesmanship situation. Folks started showing up with all kinds of modded weapons and holsters. Vented or ported extended barrels, high profile (read that as BIG) sights including scopes, extended mags, (Browning HP was starting a fad then) flared magazine well extensions, large then very large extensions to mag releases as well as slide locks. There were other things as well as lighter recoil springs, skelotonized slides, custom hammers, extended triggers and custom holsters with no thumb snap. Hell some of them were practically no holster at all, just a clip at the muzzle and another near the grip. It was the same for the mag carriers as they were a very small holder that left most of the mag open and uncovered in groups up to 5 or so.
All of the "race gun" stuff coupled with target "scenarios" that tended to cause the shooter to make very bad tactical moves (if any moves) with no real world considerations such as using good cover and maneuver. The goal was to make the minimum hits in the shortest possible time irregardless of the "tactical situation" and certainly without any consideration of incoming fire. It didn't take long to almost eliminate anyone shooting with real world gear like my uniform duty weapon and belt. Those with the non race gun's certainly were not competitive under the gamesmanship environment.
I knew several folks who were also LEO's at the time. Not one of them carried their "race gun gear" on duty. It was far from "practical" for real street uses including the weapon.
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Don't forget practice, practice, practice. :)
You wouldn't believe how many folks I deal with that want to buy a gun for the first time and just one box of ammo because "i'll never ever use all 50 anyway." :rofl
Takes a while to convince them that they either don't need a gun at all or they will be buying a whole lot more ammo sooner or later.
You need 500 rounds just to brake in your body to the gun. After a long weekend when i do shoot over 2k shot placement becomes second nature.
We had a newb out for the weekend. He purchased a kimber and brought 500 rounds out to the range. We ran .22s for the first day and a half and on the last day he was on fire with the kimber. His best time with the kimber was 3.83, man he had a smile from ear to ear. He didnt take one round home.
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The Glock 26 barrel is only 3.46 inches. Adding another half inch with an extended barrel thus still leaves the gun under a 4 inch barrel length. So no, concealability is still no problem with the gun.
Virtually all of the leading practical pistol competitors use extended barrels on their competition guns. Would you call them a "ricer" to their face?
Here is a nice handgun cutomized for unlimited OPEN IPSC competition:
(http://www.drslpc.com.au/newsite/files/images/30.jpg)
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Is that a sight on top and what kind is it? aim point floating dot?
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Is that a sight on top and what kind is it? aim point floating dot?
CMORE
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=364811&t=11082005
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Glok, my point is I don't need replacement barrels, extended slide releases, extended mag releases, lasers, compensator's,
That is not how you worded your earlier message.
You can toss out all the insults and innuendos you want. How I shoot a camera has nothing to do with my knowledge or skill level handling a firearm. The fact that you would connect to two, further shows your clear ignorance on the subject.
Well, the truth is that I know virtually nothing about you really. Here on the Internet, there is really no way to even know that a person is telling the truth. So about the only thing that I can definitely tell about you is that your photography skills are lacking. And that most definitely reveals something about your personal dedication and ability to master a skill, from a rather general standpoint.
And while I may have made an innuendo about your photography skills, you certainly are the one who first started here before my statement with making insulting remarks, and acting so very condescendingly towards me. If you don't like being talked to like this, then why did you first act so condescendingly towards me??
However, when someone comes in here and asks for advice and all you can do is snatch race gun photos from the internet and tell him how he needs to add this laser, that extended mag release and that extended slide release. All you are doing is further complicating the matter. He is very obviously a new gun owner and operator.
I only displayed that photo because it had the more ergonomic slide release on it, and I wanted to show him what it looked like. I certainly did not imply that he needed to customize his gun like that, so I really don't see your point. I only mentioned the laser sight grips because he was himself talking about making enhancements for seeing better at night in his follow-up post. And there is no better type of sight to use at night than a laser, no matter what you may say or believe.
You used the mall ninja/high speed gun store employee routine on him. More to say look at me and what I got" than to really help. A good, responsible, knowledgeable gun owner/operator, would have told him to practice a lot, learn to overcome his problem and if that still doesn't work then maybe make changes to the weapon to better suit his needs.
Once again, you are misrepresenting what has gone on in this thread. He asked about a specific issue: the difficult to use slide release on the Glock. And I showed him how he could get a much more ergonomic and easier to use slide release put on his gun.
My post with the photos of my Glock in it was in response to one of YOUR posts, not to one of his. I was taking issue with your assertion about the gun being dirty causing the difficulty in operating the slide release. And since you had already posted photos of your Glock before I did, why should I not also be allowed to post photos of my gun too? Anyway, my post with those photos was clearly a response to you, and not to Modas, as you have so falsely claimed here.
If you knew more about Glocks than just hanging crap off of them, then you would know a few hundred rounds though the Glock 19 loosens everything right up. From the slide release, to the slide it's self. In your world the single most important life saving device is a crimson trace laser slapped on your pistol. In my world the single most important life saving device is training and knowledge. That pretty much sums up what I said above and what you have shown here. I don't need to know you personally to know the type of shooter you are. Your words here have spoken volumes about the type of shooter you are.
Again, you are being very dishonest here regarding representing this discussion. I said that the best Life saving ACCESSORY he could ADD to his gun would be the Crimson Trace sight. Modas was talking about installing other accessories to deal with shooting at night, and in my opinion the Crimson Trace does a much better job. So that was the actual context of the discussion: which accessory would be the best investment and do the job the best. I think that any fair-minded person would see that.
In any event, I have greatly resented your condescending tone in ALL of the messages that you have posted here towards me. And now, in addition, you are making false representations of what I have said. Your persistence in making such unfair statements is absolutely pointless and senseless.
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The only way to really learn this is to practice. Dry fire drills can help when you cant get to the range.
I have a STI with a Cmore on top and some day i practice without the dot. Also i have a stripped down ruger mk2 that has no sights for learning to become a better point shooter.
We had a range shoot with some of my friends a couple weeks ago. I placed a nice small steel 5 target course up for the fun of it. During the 3 days my best time was 2.93 with the no sight ruger.
Lasers, dots and iron sights go out the window when your life depends on it.
Bingo! Most people laugh at folks taking .22's to the range. I used to shoot the crap out of my friends "Slabside Ruger". It keeps you in check with the fundamentals.
But your last sentence says it all.
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Glok, my point is I don't need replacement barrels, extended slide releases, extended mag releases, lasers, compensator's, replacement guide rods and springs to make me a better shooter. I can go out and buy a Glock from the gun store and shoot just as well with it that same day as I can with my own gun that I have owned for years. Because, I have eliminated the need to add things to guns to make up for my lack of understanding and operation of the weapon.
You can toss out all the insults and innuendos you want. How I shoot a camera has nothing to do with my knowledge or skill level handling a firearm. The fact that you would connect to two, further shows your clear ignorance on the subject.
If you had taken the time to go out and get some real training, I have no question your instructor would have told you to remove that grip laser. It has been proven time and time again, what you do in practice raises its head in a shooting situation. You can think you will be cool, calm and collected all you want. It has been shown time and time again, even with people who have been in multiple shoot outs in their life time. Cool, calm, collected, all go right out the window when the bullets start flying.
Assuming you live though the first critical half second and can engage your attacker, you body has already went into a predatory mode if you will. You have already received your bodies adrenaline dump, your hands will start to shake, your eyes are darting back and forth rapidly, which is leading to tunnel vision, your chest muscles tighten up and breathing becomes labored. Sounds become muffled, lights become dimmer. Time it's self seems to slow down.
Situational awareness goes right out the window, a simple, what would seem like the natural act of finding cover is like doing trigonometry on the fly. Muscle memory is going to kick in. You will find yourself holding the weapon like you did at the range, in your case you are going to be looking for that little red dot from the laser, and here is where we reach a critical point.
What happens if that laser fails? You have spent most of your time shooting, by using that laser. I am sure your response is going to be "just switch to the sights". It is not that easy. Most people in a shooting do something called "point shooting" or "instinctive shooting". This is where you don't aim with the sights, but quite literately, reactively, point the weapon at their attacker and fire. Some will even tell you that they didn't even take the time to look at the sights, it was all just a reaction.
So lets get back to that laser. Your laser in effect can be used for point shooting. However it is not foolproof. What happens if it breaks? Now your just winging it. I am sure in your little high speed-low drag world you will kill the bad guy without even batting an eye or breaking a sweat. Which is fine by me.
However, when someone comes in here and asks for advice and all you can do is snatch race gun photos from the internet and tell him how he needs to add this laser, that extended mag release and that extended slide release. All you are doing is further complicating the matter. He is very obviously a new gun owner and operator.
You used the mall ninja/high speed gun store employee routine on him. More to say "look at me and what I got" than to really help. A good, responsible, knowledgeable gun owner/operator, would have told him to practice a lot, learn to overcome his problem and if that still doesn't work then maybe make changes to the weapon to better suit his needs.
If you knew more about Glocks than just hanging crap off of them, then you would know a few hundred rounds though the Glock 19 loosens everything right up. From the slide release, to the slide it's self. In your world the single most important life saving device is a crimson trace laser slapped on your pistol. In my world the single most important life saving device is training and knowledge. That pretty much sums up what I said above and what you have shown here. I don't need to know you personally to know the type of shooter you are. Your words here have spoken volumes about the type of shooter you are.
Modas, check your PMs
Excellent post BBBB! Hats off man, I mean it. All the crap we've been through just wen under the bridge.
It took me about 500 rounds and the simple addition of a Hogue Handall to my USP 45 to "get a proper fit". I've shot my shooting partners Glock 23C and he regrets NOT GETTING the Glock 23.
IMO, telling someone to "mod this, mod that" is problematic. Modifying barrels is pointless unless for VERY COMPETITIVE shooting. I emailed Wayne Novak himself, told him what I have and that I had about 10,000 rounds through the barrel on my USP. His response? "Jay, your USP isn't even close to being broken in yet, the ONLY thing I would do for you is a $125 Reliability package." I have stock everything with the exception of the Hogue Handall. I've thought about getting only Night Sights and would ONLY get MMC or Novak sights for it.
If you're "adding extended this, extended that (magazines excluded)", you bought the WRONG gun for your hand size. I can access every release (I do the combat rack and do not use the slide release, but can reach it nonetheless), the hammer and NOT have to break my grip, with my index finger just off of the trigger (for safety). I do not "hate Glocks, hate Sigs", etc. I liek them all but Beretta and it's just that I bought a used USP 45 for $500 off of my Uncle in 1999 and it fits my large hands. To date is the best $500 I ever spent. I've thrown 7,500 round through this since I've had it.
IMO, Lasers are a crutch. They also give you a "false sense of security". If you have a handgun for personal defense and NEED to have a laser, that laser won't find the intruder wearing black, navy blue clothes ANY EASIER than someone without it.
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The only way to really learn this is to practice. Dry fire drills can help when you cant get to the range.
I have a STI with a Cmore on top and some day i practice without the dot. Also i have a stripped down ruger mk2 that has no sights for learning to become a better point shooter.
We had a range shoot with some of my friends a couple weeks ago. I placed a nice small steel 5 target course up for the fun of it. During the 3 days my best time was 2.93 with the no sight ruger.
Lasers, dots and iron sights go out the window when your life depends on it.
I'd love to see a photo of your STI. <<S>> FX
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That is not how you worded your earlier message.
Well, the truth is that I know virtually nothing about you really. Here on the Internet, there is really no way to even know that a person is telling the truth. So about the only thing that I can definitely tell about you is that your photography skills are lacking. And that most definitely reveals something about your personal dedication and ability to master a skill, from a rather general standpoint.
And while I may have made an innuendo about your photography skills, you certainly are the one who first started here before my statement with making insulting remarks, and acting so very condescendingly towards me. If you don't like being talked to like this, then why did you first act so condescendingly towards me??
I only displayed that photo because it had the more ergonomic slide release on it, and I wanted to show him what it looked like. I certainly did not imply that he needed to customize his gun like that, so I really don't see your point. I only mentioned the laser sight grips because he was himself talking about making enhancements for seeing better at night in his follow-up post. And there is no better type of sight to use at night than a laser, no matter what you may say or believe.
Once again, you are misrepresenting what has gone on in this thread. He asked about a specific issue: the difficult to use slide release on the Glock. And I showed him how he could get a much more ergonomic and easier to use slide release put on his gun.
My post with the photos of my Glock in it was in response to one of YOUR posts, not to one of his. I was taking issue with your assertion about the gun being dirty causing the difficulty in operating the slide release. And since you had already posted photos of your Glock before I did, why should I not also be allowed to post photos of my gun too? Anyway, my post with those photos was clearly a response to you, and not to Modas, as you have so falsely claimed here.
Again, you are being very dishonest here regarding representing this discussion. I said that the best Life saving ACCESSORY he could ADD to his gun would be the Crimson Trace sight. Modas was talking about installing other accessories to deal with shooting at night, and in my opinion the Crimson Trace does a much better job. So that was the actual context of the discussion: which accessory would be the best investment and do the job the best. I think that any fair-minded person would see that.
In any event, I have greatly resented your condescending tone in ALL of the messages that you have posted here towards me. And now, in addition, you are making false representations of what I have said. Your persistence in making such unfair statements is absolutely pointless and senseless.
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If you would have read the post I made instead of looking at the pictures you would have read those photos were taken on the fly at work. On top of that they were taken with the camera on my PDA. Don't you have a laser to attach to something or an over sized barrel to install? As for the rest of your banter..yawn.
Modas, you have my message and my phone number if you have any other questions don't hesitate to call.
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If you would have read the post I made instead of looking at the pictures you would have read those photos were taken on the fly at work. On top of that they were taken with the camera on my PDA.
Why didn't you simply say that before? Using a PDA's very simple digital camera would then obviously account for why you could not get a properly focused photo.
However, doing something on the fly is not by any means an issue at all. Do you think that I did anything special in taking my snapshots?? All I did was to push the macro mode button, and then manually focus. I was simply using more advanced equipment that had more features than what you used.
Perhaps having superior technology does indeed give folks an edge in performance. :D :D
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IMO, telling someone to "mod this, mod that" is problematic.
That is not at all what I said to Modas. Like BBB, you are completely distorting what I said to him. Modas complained about about a single specific control on the gun being difficult to use, and I explained to him that there are much more ergonomic designs available for that control. I assume that you have heard of ergonomics?? I did not urge him to make lots of mods, or make his Glock like mine.
Modifying barrels is pointless unless for VERY COMPETITIVE shooting.
So you mean that you feel that self-defense is not a very competitive situation where it is most extremely important to win??
I have stock everything with the exception of the Hogue Handall. I've thought about getting only Night Sights and would ONLY get MMC or Novak sights for it.
That means that you yourself have made an ergonomic modification to your gun as well. For you to then criticize me for making an ergonomic change to the slide stop on my Glock is rather two-faced of you. For we have both made minor ergonomic mods to our guns.
IMO, Lasers are a crutch.
But you just said that you yourself have considered installing night sights to help improve your aim at night. How is that then not a crutch, while a Laser is? They both have the exact same goal, of making it easier for a person to sight the weapon in poor light. You seem to definitely have a most arbitrary double standard.
They also give you a "false sense of security". If you have a handgun for personal defense and NEED to have a laser, that laser won't find the intruder wearing black, navy blue clothes ANY EASIER than someone without it.
Lighting to see your target is a totally different issue, that is unrelated to the use of a laser sight. As I mentioned to Modas, one advantage that the Crimson Trace has is that you can also hang a flashlight off the pistol's accessory rail, and use the two together. I personally, however, prefer to use a separate flashlight, which I also keep handy next to my Glock.
My Glock is only my home protection handgun. My current carry handgun is now a S&W .357. But I have made just as many mods to it, and even had a gunsmith refinish it, to improve its looks. So it actually looks even more customized.
However, I will certainly be sure to never post any photos of it here.
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Adding night sites is not the same as adding a laser. Night sights require exactly the same aiming as regular sights... they're just easier to see. A laser moves your aim from the front sight to looking for a red dot well away from the gun. The fact you'd think the two were even remotely the same speaks volumes.
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One negative to gun modifications is the added liability of the modification. District Attorneys and Prosecutors see modifications to a firearm used in self defense as a "looking for trouble" motive to a shooting. The CCW instructors and the lawyers they brought in to lecture recommended using only factory shipped versions of a firearm. Making *any* aftermarket modifications to your firearm will increase the likelyhood of prosecution in a self defense shooting scenerio. At the top of the list was trigger mods followed by aiming devices such as lasers.
Best recommendation: Practice, practice, practice with your factory "stock" Glock and don't rely on the after market mods to improve your shooting
Terror
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One negative to gun modifications is the added liability of the modification. District Attorneys and Prosecutors see modifications to a firearm used in self defense as a "looking for trouble" motive to a shooting. The CCW instructors and the lawyers they brought in to lecture recommended using only factory shipped versions of a firearm. Making *any* aftermarket modifications to your firearm will increase the likelyhood of prosecution in a self defense shooting scenerio. At the top of the list was trigger mods followed by aiming devices such as lasers.
Best recommendation: Practice, practice, practice with your factory "stock" Glock and don't rely on the after market mods to improve your shooting
Terror
As rediculously stupid as this sounds... it is true. Also true is that you are more likely to get prosecuted using a python or another pistol with an emboldened name. Why names of the weapon are also taken into consideration are beyond me. Lawyers are just pathetic when it comes to these cases.
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What Glok can't seem to understand is that Glocks are combat pistols. They come from the factory ready to go to war or work on the streets. People complain about little things on the Glocks like the plastic guide rods breaking, so they urge people to go out and by a aluminum one or a titanium one. However in my years and years dealing with Glocks, not only my own but other officers from around the metro Atlanta area I have only seen a handful of guide rods breaking and that was due to the officers failure to fully seat the guide rod after cleaning.
Glocks have become a very popular firearm. Rightly so in my book. As such there are about as many custom touches you can find out there to "mod" your Glock pistol as you can find to "mod" a 1911 pistol. What the end user of the pistol has to decide is whether or not they want to use the weapon for competition or combat. If carry and defense is their goal, then keep the weapon stock. The weapon was designed from the ground up as a combat pistol. Lots of little touches were made and added to help the weapon adapt to any environment.
Here are my reasons for not adding an assload of stuff to my Glock for carry. For the record, I carry a Sig 229 9mm for carry normally. There was a time when I carried the Glock 19 for carry and on occasion I still do.
Extended magazine releases. The reason these don't belong on a carry gun are simple. Getting in and out of vehicles puts pressure on the holster which can squeeze the weapon. An extended mag release protrudes out from the weapon by a good bit. Getting in and out of a car, standing up or sitting down can cause to you drop your magazine. Now chances are you will hear it hit the floor, but there is always that chance you will not and then you will be carrying around a weapon with one bullet like Barney Fife. This scenario is much more likely with Glocks now drop free mags that pretty much spit the magazine out from the gun, loaded or not if you hit the mag release.
Extended slide releases. This is pretty simple. I do not use the slide release anyways. Hitting the slide release is a "fine motor skill". In a shooting when you are shaking like a leaf and no amount of cussing yourself telling yourself to pull it together is going to help manipulate those small muscle groups. Instead in training/practice, just reach up and pull the slide back after reloading. Get into the habit of doing this and if you ever have to fire your weapon to save your life, hopefully you will get the bad guy with the first few shots, if not and you find yourself reloading, this action will come naturally to you and under the circumstances will be much easier to perform.
Grip plugs. The bottom of the Glock's grip is a little hole next to the magazine well. That hole is a thumb hole. It is not a place to snap in a nine dollar piece of plastic or a neat little Glock Armorers tool or any number of OEM stuff out there to place in that hole. It is a simple thumb hole. It is there so that if your weapon is covered in sand, dirt, mud, blood, grit, Dr Pepper..ect and your magazine does not drop free on the reload, you can reach up, and pull the magazine out. Simple as that.
Lasers. To me lasers are laughable. They really serve no real purpose. In fact at the range when I see someone with one of those little grip lasers or lasers on the rail of their weapon I chuckle to myself. Lasers have to be one of the most bad habit forming pointless devices the gun world has ever seen. This is of course my own opinion, but I bet if you took a pole you would find more than a few agree. The problem with lasers is, they are washed out in the sunlight, at night they are bright as hell, but most likely you can't see the bad guy to aim at. So what do you do? Use a flashlight, which then washes out the laser again. Awesome, at least some people think so. Pointless is the first word I think of.
Extended barrels. Oh man, where do I start. I can't understand why someone would want to add an extended barrel to a duty weapon. When you could just step up to the next largest size and gain a few extra rounds of ammo with out much of a weight change. In fact it most likely would weigh less then one of them lasers added to a gun.
I can go on and on about this, but truthfully I am bored with it. Glok, you continue ohh and ahh-ing over Race Glocks and adding pointless pieces of crap to a combat ready pistol. I will continue taking out of focus photos and taking my wife out to dinner regularly with all the money I save not having to buy a bunch of pointless crap to hang on my pistol to look high speed. Cheers.
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Hey Guys -
Sorry for stepping out of the thread for a while. My childhood buddy is back on leave from Iraq and we've been whooping it up pretty good since last thursday. He's been posted over there (downrange as he says) since last June. We went golfing yesterday and they had to follow us around with heavy equipment to fill in the holes :rofl
Anyways, I greatly appreciate everyones comments. I am going to be taking formal training with the same company that built my AR-15, so my "issue" with the size of the slide release may very well become a non-issue once I get some proper guidance.
There are tons of add-ons out there (i've been researching quite a bit since posting the original thread) that a person can get to customize to their individual preference. But, I think the biggest underlying theme I've gotten here is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. I've got almost 3k thru my AR already since January, and another 2K sitting in the basement ready for the range, so getting out to practice for me isn't going to be an issue. Convincing the wife to practice with me will be the issue.
It looks like the thread was getting a little "heated" so I have to put the obligatory "Can't we all just get along???" ;)
BBBB, I answered your PM. Thank Bud!!
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Modas give your buddy a hi 5 from all of us here on AH And a big Thanks for his service!
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That is not at all what I said to Modas. Like BBB, you are completely distorting what I said to him. Modas complained about about a single specific control on the gun being difficult to use, and I explained to him that there are much more ergonomic designs available for that control. I assume that you have heard of ergonomics?? I did not urge him to make lots of mods, or make his Glock like mine.
So you mean that you feel that self-defense is not a very competitive situation where it is most extremely important to win??
That means that you yourself have made an ergonomic modification to your gun as well. For you to then criticize me for making an ergonomic change to the slide stop on my Glock is rather two-faced of you. For we have both made minor ergonomic mods to our guns.
But you just said that you yourself have considered installing night sights to help improve your aim at night. How is that then not a crutch, while a Laser is? They both have the exact same goal, of making it easier for a person to sight the weapon in poor light. You seem to definitely have a most arbitrary double standard.
Lighting to see your target is a totally different issue, that is unrelated to the use of a laser sight. As I mentioned to Modas, one advantage that the Crimson Trace has is that you can also hang a flashlight off the pistol's accessory rail, and use the two together. I personally, however, prefer to use a separate flashlight, which I also keep handy next to my Glock.
My Glock is only my home protection handgun. My current carry handgun is now a S&W .357. But I have made just as many mods to it, and even had a gunsmith refinish it, to improve its looks. So it actually looks even more customized.
However, I will certainly be sure to never post any photos of it here.
You scare me and others as you own a handgun and can actually believe what you are trying to tell us.
No, adding extended mag releases, slide releases, etc are in a WHOLE OTHER REALM of Mods than a Hogue Handall. Nice try though.
Night sights are in a WHOLE OTHER REALM of mods than Lasers.
Go ahead, wake up in the middle of the night, use that flashlight.
Competition shooting and shooting in self defense are in a WHOLE OTHER REALM of handgun use.
You need to either go through some training of proper usage of firearms or find someone that actually knows what they are talking about. Because if you're passing this crap off onto your friends, there are that many "uninformed" handgun owners.
Again, if you bought a Glock and need to add extended releases, you bought the wrong tool for the job. You should have looked at something else.
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As early repliers suggested, get a Springfield XD. If you're concerned about Glock mods already, you might be more suited to another gun. Reminds me of a sleek Ruger .22 rifle I tried to like in spite of its lousy magazine release and lack of last shot bolt lock. Happiness was trading it on a Marlin 60. It's all about compatibility, what suits you best.
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Comparing the XD to the Glock is like comparing apples and oranges. The guy said he was not going to mod his Glock, it is the guy by the name of Glok that feels the need to hang hundreds of dollars of after market garbage off his Glock pistol.
Modas, has seen the light. Training, training and more training. The Glock is a fine combat/defensive weapon. The XD I have, hasn't proven to me that it is extreme anything and it is most defiantly not extreme duty worthy (a premature slide lock issue is one of the many issues I have with the XD). That is why mine has a nice spot on the bottom shelf of my safe, right next to a Lorcin 380 someone gave me years ago.
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Comparing the XD to the Glock is like comparing apples and oranges. The guy said he was not going to mod his Glock, it is the guy by the name of Glok that feels the need to hang hundreds of dollars of after market garbage off his Glock pistol.
Modas, has seen the light. Training, training and more training. The Glock is a fine combat/defensive weapon. The XD I have, hasn't proven to me that it is extreme anything and it is most defiantly not extreme duty worthy (a premature slide lock issue is one of the many issues I have with the XD). That is why mine has a nice spot on the bottom shelf of my safe, right next to a Lorcin 380 someone gave me years ago.
I've never had an issue with mine... ever (XD45 tactical). You sure it's the gun and not the ammo.
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"Drank the glock-aid"
You need a round of anti-biotics for that, or a springfield XD.
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I have an XD, never had a problem with it. I like my Kimber better to be honest but it's a bit large for CCW.
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XD subcompact 9, M&P 4" .40, Glock 17, Taurus PT1911.
Haven't had a problem with any of them. I like them all for different things. M&P the most accurate.
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I have a XD in .40, the premature slide lock issue is a pistol problem and not an ammo problem. We have had guys from all over the area buy the XD, a number of the other officers have had the same issue I have. This seems to be more of an issue in the .40 S&W models.
There is a fix out there for this issue. However my XD locks up every 800 to 1000 rounds or so. Which is why I haven't bothered to fix it. What bothers me about the problem is Springfield's refusal to admit that there is in fact a problem and a simple change in the slide lock would fix the issue without the end user having to make the fix for themselves.
As for the ammo I shot though it, it only had duty and training ammo though it. The training ammo is Atlanta Arms and Ammo 180gr TCJ Major Velocity. Our duty ammo is Winchester Ranger 40 S&W T-Series 180gr. The premature slide lock has happened in both types of ammo and from some of the other guys I have spoken to, the malfunction has happened with a number of other ammo types.
The Springfield's seem like they are a good pistol. From what I see you either love them or hate them. I am on the fence about them. Until there is a factory fix for an issue that is very real and very much an issue with the weapon and not the ammo, it will stay at the bottom of my gun safe.
Here is an article about a fix for the premature slide lock problem with the .40s.
http://www.xd-hs2000.com/longsliderelease.html
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Good read.... I was totally unaware of this problem. I am surprised that Springfield is not on top of this as they are known as a service company.
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I have a XD in .40, the premature slide lock issue is a pistol problem and not an ammo problem.
good post and that was really a well thought out article. My XD is in .45. I am thankful to not have the problem.
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good post and that was really a well thought out article. My XD is in .45. I am thankful to not have the problem.
Ditto. 2000-3000 rounds down range and zero problems. XD 45 service model.
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XD subcompact 9, M&P 4" .40, Glock 17, Taurus PT1911.
Haven't had a problem with any of them. I like them all for different things. M&P the most accurate.
Toad, how do you like the PT1911?? I've been looking at those but haven't talked to anyone who owns one.
On the subject of mods. For a carry gun, keep it as simple as possible. My normal carry weapon is a Taurus PT-99. It came with factory adjustable night sights and they work just fine. I changed the grips on it. It had Rosewood grips on it when I bought it. Looked really nice with them but I didn't like the feel of the gun. The grip just felt to wide and if your hands were sweaty it tended to slip around a bit. Not good. I put on Pachmeyer finger grooved grips. HUGE improvement!!! I recently replaced the barrel as well. The original started to develop a small crack inside the chamber. Probably from the 50K or so rounds I've put through the gun in the last 10 years and lots of those were handloads that were a little hotter than normal factory ammo. Looked like a fine hair inside the chamber when you looked at it. Figured I better replace it before it blew up in my hands. The new barrel is a Dragon Fire factory replacement barrel. Dropped right in, and works great. No ports, no extension, just a new barrel.
Now my Ruger 10/22 is modded all over the place. Nothing I really needed but it looks kinda cool. That's my weekend fun plinker, so I made a bunch of changes to make it more fun for me to shoot.
My Bushmaster M4, only thing I've done with that is added a red dot reflex sight. Love the thing. Target aquisition is fast, and your able to shoot with both eyes open and on the target.
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The PT 1911 is an excellent pistol and a joy to shoot. As you know, it's very full-featured and all the features are well done.
I got mine early on, before the latest round of price increases so I'm into it for less than half of what an entry level Kimber costs. To me, the Taurus is a huge bargain.
It shoots very well. The first time I ever shot it was at my CCW class. I had already qualified with a different pistol and they just let me plink with the new one while the others were still working. Using the standard LEO silhoutte target, I decided I would aim for the round "seal of approval" in the upper right corner that certifies it as somebody's official target. The circle is about 3" in diameter I would guess. Anyway, the first two mags I shot out of that gun I shot at the circle from 10 yards (yeah, it's close, I know) an ALL the rounds were grouped well inside the circle, probably 2" group at best. That was the first time I picked it up, never used Heine straight 8 sites before either, using 230 ball MagTech. I've shot it some more at different ranges and I am more and more impressed. No FTF so far, using maybe 5-6 different brands of ammo with various bullets, probably 1000 rounds through it. I have to settle down and do some shooting from a rest to see just how good it is vs my induced errors.
I have no problem recommending it. Just a shame they're ramping up the price. At $650 it's not the deal it was for $400 but it's still a great buy IMO.
As for your Taurus, they're all lifetime warranty. They would have put in a new barrel for free if you shipped it back to Miami. That's another thing I like about them.
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I love their warranty. I would have shipped it back but shortly after I found the crack I went to a local gun show and found the barrel for it for $75. I pretty much broke even because even if I did ship it to them, they can't ship it directly back to me. In Virginia it has to go through a FFL dealer and they all charge about $30-40 for processing fees. Plus I would have had to pay the shipping costs to get it there, figure $10-20 for UPS or FedEx plus insurance. Just made more sense to buy the new barrel right then and be able to go to the range the next day to try it out.
They did ship me a brand new rear sight for mine when I broke it. Called them up, told them I broke the rear leaf. They asked for my information, and I had a new sight in my mailbox 2 days later, no questions asked.
Thanks for the info about the PT1911. I really want to get a 1911 style .45 and have been looking at all of them. Just wasn't sure how the PT stacked up against the more well known makes. I've shot a couple of Kimbers, Colts, and Springfields, but man I don't want to pay over a grand for a pistol. I'm really leaning towards the PT1911. Have to see if the local store will let me try one out.
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The PT 1911 is an excellent pistol and a joy to shoot. As you know, it's very full-featured and all the features are well done.
I got mine early on, before the latest round of price increases so I'm into it for less than half of what an entry level Kimber costs. To me, the Taurus is a huge bargain.
It shoots very well. The first time I ever shot it was at my CCW class. I had already qualified with a different pistol and they just let me plink with the new one while the others were still working. Using the standard LEO silhoutte target, I decided I would aim for the round "seal of approval" in the upper right corner that certifies it as somebody's official target. The circle is about 3" in diameter I would guess. Anyway, the first two mags I shot out of that gun I shot at the circle from 10 yards (yeah, it's close, I know) an ALL the rounds were grouped well inside the circle, probably 2" group at best. That was the first time I picked it up, never used Heine straight 8 sites before either, using 230 ball MagTech. I've shot it some more at different ranges and I am more and more impressed. No FTF so far, using maybe 5-6 different brands of ammo with various bullets, probably 1000 rounds through it. I have to settle down and do some shooting from a rest to see just how good it is vs my induced errors.
I have no problem recommending it. Just a shame they're ramping up the price. At $650 it's not the deal it was for $400 but it's still a great buy IMO.
As for your Taurus, they're all lifetime warranty. They would have put in a new barrel for free if you shipped it back to Miami. That's another thing I like about them.
Hmm I wonder if they got it certified for sale in Californa... Prolly not. Stupid California.
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I don't really mod ort add accessories to any of my "serious" weapons.
My old S&W 66 only got a different set of grips. What freaking moron thinks those huge slabs on factory stocks are comfortable? Other than that it was dry fired thousands upon thousands of times to wear the action smooth. I also practiced with it for several thousand rounds as well.
My Glock is box stock other than the chroming of the slide and that was due to wear of the original finish. Original sights and barrel and it shoots to point of aim and at least as accurate as I am. Many thousands of rounds through it and mostly hard cast lead.
I don't do "race guns" and would never carry one for serious purposes. I don't know anyone else that would either.