Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Coshy on June 04, 2008, 07:11:41 AM
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Now that the Democrats are done diddling around with each other and their 'thuper' delegates the real race can begin.
The question is simple: Can Obama win against McCain?
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If the playing field were level....no.
However, the playing field isn't level. With the majority of the national media in his hip pocket, and the same media's less than veiled hostility toward anything and anyone Republican, Obama will have a down-hill run toward the presidency. McCain, on the other hand, will have to labor up a 45 degree slope to reach the same goal.
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If they pair Hillary with him, then he will lose my vote. I do not believe we can afford to have that woman anywhere near the White House.
It is going to be another one of those, "I am not voting for anyone, as much as I am voting against someone" elections.
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I think it will be a close race between these two democrats, with McCain coming out on top. (He's truly not a republican, and he's DEFINATELY not a conservative)
I said last year, I just don't think America is ready to elect a black man. Too many closet racists out there.
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I am concerned McCain will bow to the wind to easily though. I hope I am wrong. He just does not come off as a strong leader, to me.
I think Obama will win as our country seems to have a fetish concerning doing the socially popular thing, as opposed to doing the right thing.
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McCain is far less liberal than osama. I think he will win. I think osama lost the white guilt vote and the woman vote. Women are all for things like afirmative action and extra rights so long as it is them that are getting the lions share.. they are not happy when they get passed over by a man.. any color or shade of man.
As for McCain? He did have a very good interview in the "Rifleman" (NRA).. he seemed very solid on the second at least.
lazs
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Rip, I respectfully disagree. Many Americans are willing to vote for a black for president. Many conservatives were, apparently prepared and willing to vote for Colin Powell in our previous elections, if he had thrown his hat into the ring.
Those same people would not vote for Obama....simply because of his extreme-leftist politics and his association with unsavory public figures.
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Rip, I respectfully disagree. Many Americans are willing to vote for a black for president. Many conservatives were, apparently prepared and willing to vote for Colin Powell in our previous elections, if he had thrown his hat into the ring.
Though I may agree with you, voter turn out would be essential for this to be true. 2004 yielded 64% which was the highest since 1968. I hope it's even higher in 2008 (not saying I want the Dems to win, just cheering on what we have left of democracy).
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Obama/Billary beats McCain/Anybody without breaking a sweat.
Pure Obam v McCain.... polls report it as very close right now. I give a slight nod to the Big Bama but it's still pre-game. Lots of opportunities to goof up before November.
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Well, how many times has a politician actually done what they said they were going to do? It is all rhetoric at this point.
Obama's lack of experience in the political arena concerns me. A President has to be able to play politics to get anything done. An unfortunate truth. I can see Obama easily being manipulated by the people surrounding him. An aspect prevalent in the Bush regime.
Then on the other hand. McCain comes off as someone who will drift with public opinion. Wishy-washy maybe. If McCain can avoid that, he might be a good choice for President.
I think we desperately need a strong leader in the White House. It is going to take a savvy and strong person to undo what the Bush regime has done to this country. I am not even considering being able to move forward. I think that will be a long time coming.
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Obama's association with racist ministers and elitist socialist Hollywood/intellectual ex-bomber types may well sink him in the general election. On the other hand, he has the media running interference for him, so....
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I don't think the outcome will turn on race or party affiliation. I think it will boil down to which candidate generates the most gut-level trust in the bellies of voters.
I think many voters who are "Democrats" will get inside the privacy of the booth and act on instinct rather than party affiliation.
Unless McCain's campaign really screws this up, I think the end game will result in many people realizing that no matter how attractive Obama is (admit it, on many levels he is) and how attractive regime change is, McCain has proven in the past he can be trusted to honor the nations best interest over any personal considerations. Obama, having relatively little record to stand upon, will lose the election due to this factor.
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It depends if most voters can tell the difference between a talker and a doer, and if its more important to elect the first dark skinned President than it is to elect a moderate President.
Obama can talk all he wants about crossing the aisle, but its just talk. Only one candidate has done that to a point he has earned scorn from his own party - John McCain. John McCain has a long history of bipartisanship and Obama has a good speech and a history of partisan politics.
John McCain has a history of dealing with oppressive regimes and a realistic view of what can and what can't be accomplished in a Presidents term. Obama has a good speech, a slip of the tongue and a contrived "plan" of dealing with oppressive regimes because of that slip of the tongue.
Obama can part the Red Sea, McCain can't.
I'd still bet on McCain. I'd hate to think Oprah bought the Presidency.
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The question is simple: Can Obama win against McCain?
No.
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I would rather not see Obama as the new President. Unfortunately too may idiots in this country are caught up with his prepared speeches and unsubstantiated message of change. He is nothing but an empty suit. Then again, McCain is really no dinger.
It's really sad that our nation has put forth these two as our choices to be the next President. Makes me really hope a really good independent candidate would step forth.
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I thought a Clinton-Obama ticket would be a slam dunk, Obama-Clinton not so much. The Dems will find a way to blow this. I'm not terribly upset with McCain, just wish national health care would stay on the front burner.
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Yeah, we need US government run national health care. The Feds always know what they're doing and all their programs turn out just super.
I mean, look how well they run a health care system for veterans. The VA hospitals/health care are a prime example of their amazing capabilities to serve their clients.
[rolleyesthingiemabob]
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MT...the Dems may have already blown it. His leftist policies have only begun to come under scrutiny by the voting public. Obama's nomination will only serve to further polarize the electorate.
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It's a Hobson's choice: the government versus the Simon Legrees.
Hey, do y'all think the Fed is equally inept at war waging or war stopping, or war discouraging?
Are they lousy at everything?
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oops
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McCain will win.
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Yeah, we need US government run national health care. The Feds always know what they're doing and all their programs turn out just super.
I mean, look how well they run a health care system for veterans. The VA hospitals/health care are a prime example of their amazing capabilities to serve their clients.
[rolleyesthingiemabob]
And our current system is working so well for the majority of middle class Americans who can look forward to having most of their savings gobbled up by insurance company middle men and health care providers waiting to pounce on the sick and aged... [samerollingeysthingy]
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And our current system is working so well for the majority of middle class Americans who can look forward to having most of their savings gobbled up by insurance company middle men and health care providers waiting to pounce on the sick and aged... [samerollingeysthingy]
MT, that's what I was thinking with the Simon Legrees. Well honed greed really puts me off.
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Well, MT, help me out here. Give me some examples of programs of interest to the national populace that the Feds do well.
Schools? Hardly, they are a joke. VA hospitals/health care? A disgrace. Our roads, bridges and highways? Falling down at high prices (think Boston's Big Dig). Maybe the FDA? Another joke, especially considering the crap they let in from China.
Oh.. wait.. there is one thing they are REALLY, REALLY good at! They spend other people's money (yours) with great abandon and no discernible positive result! They're DAMN good at that!
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I'm sorry you hate your Country Toad.
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I think Toad brings up a valid point about the government running health care. However, I think a compromise might be better. Think along the lines of the government providing incentive to private health care to provide people with coverage. Just a thought. Government has always seem to do well when it comes to tossing money at things.
But that is moving away from the topic at hand. As with any politician, what they say today may have little bearing on what actually happens tomorrow.
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McCain is the guy to vote for.
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I'm sorry you hate your Country Toad.
:lol
I'm sorry you don't realize that the Federal government of the country I love and served is incredibly inept and inefficient at solving public problems due to greed, graft and it's own gigantitudiness.
Nice cast though; I happen to prefer top water baits like that one but in neon colors, not the subtle shade you used. ;)
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Until accountability is enforced at all levels of the government, putting all our health care eggs into that basket would be irresponsible.
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Now that the Democrats are done diddling around with each other and their 'thuper' delegates the real race can begin.
The question is simple: Can Obama win against McCain?
i hope not
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I figured you would appreciate the humor.
:cool:
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McCain is the guy to vote for.
yep
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Well, MT, help me out here. Give me some examples of programs of interest to the national populace that the Feds do well.
Schools? Hardly, they are a joke. VA hospitals/health care? A disgrace. Our roads, bridges and highways? Falling down at high prices (think Boston's Big Dig). Maybe the FDA? Another joke, especially considering the crap they let in from China.
Oh.. wait.. there is one thing they are REALLY, REALLY good at! They spend other people's money (yours) with great abandon and no discernible positive result! They're DAMN good at that!
Toad, why not run for office in your home town. Make it better.
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Until accountability is enforced at all levels of the government, putting all our health care eggs into that basket would be irresponsible.
Well said.... but as Lazs has said in the past, the only way that will happen is through armed conflict.
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Rip, I respectfully disagree. Many Americans are willing to vote for a black for president. Many conservatives were, apparently prepared and willing to vote for Colin Powell in our previous elections, if he had thrown his hat into the ring.
Those same people would not vote for Obama....simply because of his extreme-leftist politics and his association with unsavory public figures.
And I am respectful of your entitled opinion. :aok
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Well said.... but as Lazs has said in the past, the only way that will happen is through armed conflict.
I do not think we have to go that far, yet. I do believe it will require a major paradigm shift in order for it to occur.
Sadly, none of the candidates are up for that type of restructuring. After all, they only have 4 to 8 years to get things done. Starting something that has no chance of finishing within their term is not something any of them will do.
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I think it will be a close race between these two democrats, with McCain coming out on top. (He's truly not a republican, and he's DEFINATELY not a conservative)
I said last year, I just don't think America is ready to elect a black man. Too many closet racists out there.
There will be a lot of people voting entirely for race but I think it will favor Obama.
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Obama has a great shot at it, I defiantly think he needs to stay away from Hillary however. With a strong running mate like Joe Biden or John Edwards, he will do very well. I don't dislike Senator McCain, but he will not win this election.
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There will be a lot of people voting entirely for race but I think it will favor Obama.
That's a good point! He'll have the minority vote, regardless of the color. And, if he takes the Limosine Liberal on as VP (Edwards) he'll get yet more of the metrosexuals out there (He's already got the gay votes no doubt) There's a good chance, but I think he'll come up short.
Either way, hang onto your wallets if you're middle class if Obama is elected. My recommendation is to invest the maximum you can into a 401k plan or a VIP plan, because they can't tax you on it until you retire (at a lower rate)
On top of new taxes passed by congress and signed by Obama, by 2010, another 4 million people will be swallowed up in the AMT tax bracket, since they never adjusted the original bill for inflation.
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Edwards is only marginally better than Hillary,...wait a minute,....no,..no....the only difference is one is a man and the other is a woman. I leave it to you to determine which is which.
Neither of which is fit to be a representative of the people of this nation.
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If the playing field were level....no.
However, the playing field isn't level. With the majority of the national media in his hip pocket, and the same media's less than veiled hostility toward anything and anyone Republican, Obama will have a down-hill run toward the presidency. McCain, on the other hand, will have to labor up a 45 degree slope to reach the same goal.
so it's now the white guys that have to carry a piano
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whoa... I am not for armed conflict at this point. I do believe that it may come to that point if government continues to grow and take away rights.
I think that when people see that osama means that by "bringing people together" he means.. either everyone agrees with his socialist agenda or they go to prison or lose everything they own up to and including their lives in some cases... I think he will go the way of so many other extreme left wing candidtates.
Bring us together? there is nothing that the blue state city dwellers want for this country and for me that I want. What I want is for them to leave me alone... something that they simply can not do.. it is their nature to make me do what they think is best for me and to punish me for being an individual and for any abilities I may have...
We will never come together.. the big government types and the individualists.. it is oil and water.
lazs
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You guys are as scared of what Obama will do as I was scared Bush Jr. would screw the country up. After 8 years of Bush, you guys shouldn't be able to vote anymore.
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You guys are as scared of what Obama will do as I was scared Bush Jr. would screw the country up. After 8 years of Bush, you guys shouldn't be able to vote anymore.
Who is scared? So the regime has gotten to you to? Now you want to take away the right to vote. Sounds like a Bush idea.
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After 8 years of Bush, you guys shouldn't be able to vote anymore.
The economy did not start to sour until after the demcrats gained the majority in congress back in 06. Before that time everything in this country was going great, all things being considered equaly. The fact that Bush stood strong against obama on the surge is bonus points in my book. If I could I would cast a vote to re-elect Bush and cast another vote to elect whatever republican was running for congress in my district. Obama is bad news in every single way, and I dont mind telling you.
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I thought a Clinton-Obama ticket would be a slam dunk, Obama-Clinton not so much. The Dems will find a way to blow this. I'm not terribly upset with McCain, just wish national health care would stay on the front burner.
There's no way Obama can annoint Clinton as the VP. She'll just Vince Foster him, and take the throne. If I were Obama, I'd watch my back either way.
-Sik
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A) Let's see...a guy with (realistically speaking) 150 days actually on the job.....
vs
B) A war hero with decades of experience on the job who got the crap beat out of him in the POW camps and he coudln't fight back...and instead of coming back and turning his knowledge & experience into bigh money somewhere he instead went back to serving his country, and then gets the nod to be a country's chief executive?
If you were the CEO---having read the resumes and done the seen the interviews over the last 6 months....
Who has more experience?
Who has more character?
Who would you want to be commander-in-chief in time of war?
No Brainer.
ROX
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The question is simple: Can Obama win against McCain?
Yep and I predict will win.
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A) Let's see...a guy with (realistically speaking) 150 days actually on the job.....
vs
B) A war hero with decades of experience on the job who got the crap beat out of him in the POW camps and he coudln't fight back...and instead of coming back and turning his knowledge & experience into bigh money somewhere he instead went back to serving his country, and then gets the nod to be a country's chief executive?
If you were the CEO---having read the resumes and done the seen the interviews over the last 6 months....
Who has more experience?
Who has more character?
Who would you want to be commander-in-chief in time of war?
No Brainer.
ROX
You underestimate the "change" in the Cool-aid formula.
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what ROX said
problem is many voters do not think that deeply, they are too young or stupid or both
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I don't understand how there isn't a single candidate banging hard at the drum of what it really means to be a lean mean american to put people back on track from their own sense of what's Right, rather than appealing to mindless masses of feel good lemmings by harping on about some promised-land "change" and promising more big government.
Like egging a bull on vs. riding a donkey with a carrot hanging in its face. Nothing good is going to happen or "change", so long as people expect the govt to do things for them, rather than them working for themselves and in effect rise the country. In fact, the more people are left to being soft-arsed and uneducated (education doesn't have to be elite.. it just has to be thorough) and hungry only for "help" to "change", etc, and the more govt is made to cater to that sort of mediocre expectations, the more it's going to keep getting more and more stuck in mud.
There can't be any compromise.
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Obama needs a running mate like ... John Kerry.... yeah that's the ticket.
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No Brainer.
ROX
Hence why Obama will win.
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so long as people expect the govt to do things for them,
QFT
The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
and
Gerald Ford
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
Presidential address to a joint session of Congress (12 August 1974)
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Obama is not electible.
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Yet there are enough ignorant sheep listening to his "hope for change" garbage that he might actually get elected. I simply hope that these sheep are the same type who are too lazy to vote.
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A) Let's see...a guy with (realistically speaking) 150 days actually on the job.....
vs
B) A war hero with decades of experience on the job who got the crap beat out of him in the POW camps and he coudln't fight back...and instead of coming back and turning his knowledge & experience into bigh money somewhere he instead went back to serving his country, and then gets the nod to be a country's chief executive?
If you were the CEO---having read the resumes and done the seen the interviews over the last 6 months....
Who has more experience?
Who has more character?
Who would you want to be commander-in-chief in time of war?
No Brainer.
ROX
I have to totally agree with ROX. I'm going to Navy boot camp on November 26 and by the time I get there and out we will have our new president and I don't want to be serving in our military with someone who probably has never even shot a gun or seen anykind of action. To me McCain is the best choice because he has war experiance and he knows what soldiers want and what to do to win this war. If people say Iraq is so much like Vietnam then don't you want someone who was there and would know how to counter that??
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Wow, 4 pages in 3 hours? Hot topic, here.
Re: Now the real election question, can Obama win over McCain
« Reply #5 on: Today at 08:00:07 AM » Quote
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McCain is far less liberal than osama. I think he will win. I think osama lost the white guilt vote and the woman vote. Women are all for things like afirmative action and extra rights so long as it is them that are getting the lions share.. they are not happy when they get passed over by a man.. any color or shade of man.
As for McCain? He did have a very good interview in the "Rifleman" (NRA).. he seemed very solid on the second at least.
lazs
You know, that's a good point, Lasz. However, Obama might be thinking the same; He can salvage some of that vote if he takes Hillary for a VP, and if she talks' about another run at the Presidency in the future. It really depends' on her own ego, which seems to be driving everything about her campaign.
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I have to totally agree with ROX. I'm going to Navy boot camp on November 26 and by the time I get there and out we will have our new president and I don't want to be serving in our military with someone who probably has never even shot a gun or seen anykind of action. To me McCain is the best choice because he has war experiance and he knows what soldiers want and what to do to win this war. If people say Iraq is so much like Vietnam then don't you want someone who was there and would know how to counter that??
You just described GWB jr. He couldn't even stay in the Air guard. Shameful, considering his fathers' service in the Navy in WWII...
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I admit I'll be stunned if Obama picks Hillary as veep candidate. He's begging to add another tally to the clinton body count if he does.
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I admit I'll be stunned if Obama picks Hillary as veep candidate. He's begging to add another tally to the clinton body count if he does.
Maybe he's not afraid of outright murder, Steve, but I'm sure that he might keep in mind that she might diddly him over in some other way, especially if it gets' her into the Oval O.
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Obama is not electible.
I said the same at one time. I didn't think he'd even come close the nomination, but here he is.
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If Obama picks Hillary as his running mate, then he is pretty much signed his own death warrant if he wins.
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this is so funny...
It is not just us here saying that billary vp is a death sentence... I have heard at some of the liberal state (kalifornia) government offices that the water cooler talk amoung those liberal women and girly men is the same... they fear that their "changing the hope" hero will have an accident if the billary machine is in line for his spot.
Most liberal pundits seem to feel it is a bad idea too.. they say that it would highlight his inexperience and....
I can see the republican commercials now... all those interviews of major democrats for billary all saying how McCain and billary were qualified for POTUS but not osama husien.
lazs
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I can see the republican commercials now... all those interviews of major democrats for billary all saying how McCain and billary were qualified for POTUS but not osama husien.
lazs
I can hear the whining now about how replaying Clinton criticizing Obama is "swiftboating" or maybe just plain racist.
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the talk is that obama does not want hillary or bill anywhere near his white house.
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i don't think billary will want him too win because that pretty much keeps her from running in 4 years!!
i think she will try too undermind him at every turn to see that McCain wins so she can run against him in the next election!
she has probably also made a deal that will put her a the head of the senate by dropping out before the convention and as V.P. she would have less power than senate majority leader!!
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I do not believe obama will pick hillary. He'll pick a white guy who is moderate. Strategically, this is the only move that makes sense, IMHO.
Having a pair of leftists on the ticket doesn't make sense to me... YMMV
Frode, I understand but I'll stand by it: I do not think Obama is electible. Even at this date, with the populace as pathetic and uneducated as it is, with the leftist nutjobs screaming from the bully pulpit almost unopposed, I refuse to believe that anyone but Bush haters and left wing nutjobs will vote for Obama. He simply has almost zero credentials. I've asked many times on this board, what has he done? always get crickets.
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i also don't think he is electable! not if you take his color out of the race and run him ,on paper against McCain, he cannot win but then again that's what the Dem's. are doing here , running him as a black man against the older white status quo!
change,,, that's what they are banking on, but do we really know what change he is offering? today you can work were you want ,go were you want, and do as you please! within the law,and if your not qualified for the job you want, go too school learn that trade!how will he make any of that better? with more taxes on the productive people of this country? by forcing health care on those who don't want the gov. to run it for them?by taking the guns out of the hands of law abiding people so only the criminals will have them?
i know I'm being a bit over the top on some of this, but he is running for the top job in the country,
so this is an interview, you have two choices on who will run your country, do you want an inexperienced man to run it? or someone who has many years of on the job training?
most successfully businesses would not even give obama a second look, not before he has more time under his belt!
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A) Let's see...a guy with (realistically speaking) 150 days actually on the job.....
vs
B) A war hero with decades of experience on the job who got the crap beat out of him in the POW camps and he coudln't fight back...and instead of coming back and turning his knowledge & experience into bigh money somewhere he instead went back to serving his country, and then gets the nod to be a country's chief executive?
If you were the CEO---having read the resumes and done the seen the interviews over the last 6 months....
Who has more experience?
Who has more character?
Who would you want to be commander-in-chief in time of war?
No Brainer.
ROX
Yes but doesn't he turn 72 next year? Hence he wouldn't get a Chief Exec job in any company no matter how good you think his CV might look.
<S>...-Gixer
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Presidents are not elected by the Far left or the Far right, They are elected by Joe working guy. those folks are slightly left or right of center.
IMHO Mcain may appeal to more of the center and independent voters. The far Left and the hollywood elite under estimate the Power of the working man.
carry on :salute
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I will not miss Susan Sarandon.
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According to CNN, right now Barack is at Hillary's house.
I'm assuming Bill isn't there as Barack went in through the back door.
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He probably brought over his shoe shine kit.
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According to CNN, right now Barack is at Hillary's house.
I'm assuming Bill isn't there as Barack went in through the back door.
The funniest part is I had Barry White on the sound system as I read this (Milk everywhere)
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Trouble is brewing amongst the long-time Democratic faithful; those working class elderly voters in the South and Midwest who grew up during the Great Depression and drifted into the Democratic camp because of the New Deal promises of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. People who, like my parents, have never voted for a Republican candidate for president. Never. For a variety of reasons, they are not going to vote for Obama. I've talked to a number of them over the last few weeks, and that decision to abandon the Democrats, at least as far as the Presidential election is concerned, has been unanimous.
The reasons include, but are not limited to, the following: Obama's liberal policies (higher taxes, gun control, etc.); disgust with his choice of friends; distrust of his religious affiliations, i.e. the belief that he is a closet muslim; anger that he refuses to honor his country and flag during the national anthem; and, for some, racism.
The diatribes by the Reverend Wright and Reverend Pfleger have caused more damage to Obama's support in this demographic group that the national media is willing to admit. These voters don't believe Obama when he says that he did not know about Wright's radical racist and political views. In that, and on other issues, they don't trust Obama as far as they can throw him.
While I can only speak about the views of people who run in my, admittedly, small circle....I feel that this is a trend that is widespread....in the South and large portions of the Midwest.
This is going to come as a nasty shock to those running the DNC....but they have nobody to blame but themselves. With each presidential election that rolls around, it seems that the candidates that they nominate to run are even more liberal than the ones they chose to run in the last election.
They're going to fall on their own sword.
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Yes but doesn't he turn 72 next year? Hence he wouldn't get a Chief Exec job in any company no matter how good you think his CV might look.
<S>...-Gixer
This is my major problem with McCain. I believe McCain would be better than GWB (who's been an utter, utter disaster for this country, the extent of which will take years to realize). I'm just not sure electing someone who could turn 80 in office is the right thing to do.
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I'm just not sure electing someone who could turn 80 in office is the right thing to do.
So we can't elect McCain because of the age of his skin, and we can't elect Obama because of the color of his skin.
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So we can't elect McCain because of the age of his skin, and we can't elect Obama because of the color of his skin.
What does the constitution says happens if everyone abstains on the grounds of all candidates being mince?
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Trouble is brewing amongst the long-time Democratic faithful; those working class elderly voters in the South and Midwest who grew up during the Great Depression and drifted into the Democratic camp because of the New Deal promises of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. People who, like my parents, have never voted for a Republican candidate for president. Never. For a variety of reasons, they are not going to vote for Obama. I've talked to a number of them over the last few weeks, and that decision to abandon the Democrats, at least as far as the Presidential election is concerned, has been unanimous.
The reasons include, but are not limited to, the following: Obama's liberal policies (higher taxes, gun control, etc.); disgust with his choice of friends; distrust of his religious affiliations, i.e. the belief that he is a closet muslim; anger that he refuses to honor his country and flag during the national anthem; and, for some, racism.
The diatribes by the Reverend Wright and Reverend Pfleger have caused more damage to Obama's support in this demographic group that the national media is willing to admit. These voters don't believe Obama when he says that he did not know about Wright's radical racist and political views. In that, and on other issues, they don't trust Obama as far as they can throw him.
While I can only speak about the views of people who run in my, admittedly, small circle....I feel that this is a trend that is widespread....in the South and large portions of the Midwest.
Keep posting. Good one there. Dad was born in '20, Mom in '24. Both passed now. Funny how their values are now my values , much more so as I've aged.
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Keep posting. Good one there. Dad was born in '20, Mom in '24. Both passed now. Funny how their values are now my values , much more so as I've aged.
with age usually comes wisdom .. remember that in Nov
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Trouble is brewing amongst the long-time Democratic faithful; those working class elderly voters in the South and Midwest who grew up during the Great Depression and drifted into the Democratic camp because of the New Deal promises of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. People who, like my parents, have never voted for a Republican candidate for president. Never. For a variety of reasons, they are not going to vote for Obama. I've talked to a number of them over the last few weeks, and that decision to abandon the Democrats, at least as far as the Presidential election is concerned, has been unanimous.
The reasons include, but are not limited to, the following: Obama's liberal policies (higher taxes, gun control, etc.); disgust with his choice of friends; distrust of his religious affiliations, i.e. the belief that he is a closet muslim; anger that he refuses to honor his country and flag during the national anthem; and, for some, racism.
The diatribes by the Reverend Wright and Reverend Pfleger have caused more damage to Obama's support in this demographic group that the national media is willing to admit. These voters don't believe Obama when he says that he did not know about Wright's radical racist and political views. In that, and on other issues, they don't trust Obama as far as they can throw him.
While I can only speak about the views of people who run in my, admittedly, small circle....I feel that this is a trend that is widespread....in the South and large portions of the Midwest.
This is going to come as a nasty shock to those running the DNC....but they have nobody to blame but themselves. With each presidential election that rolls around, it seems that the candidates that they nominate to run are even more liberal than the ones they chose to run in the last election.
They're going to fall on their own sword.
I have the opportunity to service many condos here in south florida (yes the ones where some of you folks send your elderly parents to await the inevitable) as I go about my business on some of these service calls I have the pleasure of being able to converse with some of these very same old timers you refer to shuckins, they are curious about what I'm doing (and like to tell me about how it would have been done better up north :D) I steer the conversation to politics when I can and what you are saying is almost uniformly correct. the dems will lose a large base within that voting block with senator obama which they might have kept with senator clinton. in any event time will tell soon enough.
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I do not believe obama will pick hillary. He'll pick a white guy who is moderate. Strategically, this is the only move that makes sense, IMHO.
Having a pair of leftists on the ticket doesn't make sense to me... YMMV
Frode, I understand but I'll stand by it: I do not think Obama is electible. Even at this date, with the populace as pathetic and uneducated as it is, with the leftist nutjobs screaming from the bully pulpit almost unopposed, I refuse to believe that anyone but Bush haters and left wing nutjobs will vote for Obama. He simply has almost zero credentials. I've asked many times on this board, what has he done? always get crickets.
Because he has done nothing that demonstrates he would make a good or even adequate President. Its obvious he is the candidate of race. Those who make up the left of the media have reached a consensus that this is the year to elect a dark skinned President. It doesn't matter that he is an empty suit. He's half black! Geraldine Ferraro was exactly right in stating that if Obama were white, he would have never been considered a serious contender. Its a simple fact he is all talk and no experience. He wants people to place their faith in his stellar judgement of voting against the Iraq War. That judgement doesn't seem so stellar after his parade of long time friends.
I agree he's unelectable or even considered seriously outside of the Kool aid crowd.
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I think that shuckins is right... I think that southerners and whites in general are about fed up with being the blame for every problem that exists...
I am pretty sure that a message of "changing the hope" that is also full of blame and works on white guilt will backfire.
People may see past the color and see that no matter what color osama husien is this week.. he is a ultra left wing socialist racist.
He is giving the white guilt voter a good reason to not have to vote for him.
The only thing he has going for him is a good speaking voice.. but so did Thompson... What will happen is that he will get slaughtered in the debates with McCain.. Uhhh uhhhh Uhhh won't get it.
lazs
lazs
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What will happen is that he will get slaughtered in the debates with McCain.. Uhhh uhhhh Uhhh won't get it.
Gore trumped Bush in the debates. The media hailed Bush nonetheless. Weird.
Media? How much to they shape results?
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What does the constitution says happens if everyone abstains on the grounds of all candidates being mince?
Bob Barr might not win but he is a good vote!!
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hap.. I musta seen different debates.. gore came off like an idiot.
But...
My last ex's new husband is retired and makes a bunch.. between em they make plenty.... they have free health care and about everything they need..
He is all atwitter at osamabama... I asked him why.. he claims that osama will make the best pres we have ever had.. I asked him why.. he doesn't know.
He did say that osama told him (musta been him personally) that there would be no federal tax on anyone making less than 100,000 a year ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME That would happen to be them if they filed seperately...
Has anyone heard such a thing? I pointed out that the best analysis showed that under osama.. the tax burden for people under $75,000 would increase by $2,000 as would the price of all goods especially those that took power. He said... "you might be right" I might be right? and yet he is still gonna vote for the guy??
In the end.. he claimed that anyone who didn't vote for osamabama was a racist. He feels that osama will win by 65%... probly true in kalifornia.. It all depends on who you talk too.. he is the first person I have talked to who will vote for osama.
He and my ex were outraged by gas prices and the profit oil makes... I told them that tax is more.. I told them that osama adding a buck a gallon in tax is not gonna help em.. I told em that it is democrats who stop us from building nuke plants and drilling for the oil we have...
Still.. They feel that anyone who doesn't vote for osama is a racist.
They did agree that if hillary is his vp that he will have a vince foster type suicide.
lazs