Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: RoGenT on June 09, 2008, 01:53:33 AM
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I did search but I couldn't find anything about it but I am sure it has been brought up in past so for that, I apologize. Anyway, Relic and I were talking via PM about 50s. I noticed the .50s on F4Us, F6Fs, FM2s seem to be little bit better than in pony (maybe they all the same, dunno). If not, putting on my wish list that the guns on the Pony be upgraded to equal to the Corsairs, F6Fs, if there is in fact, any difference at all.
Thanks :salute:
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I think its because those mostly go a whole lot slower (except F4U-4) so it's easier to hit the target. Plus, F4U has better visability than 50 for deflection shots. :D
But if its not that, then I dont know. It may be different kinds of .50 caliber guns ( to suit the type of enviroment?)
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Sorry, I put this in wrong section
And yeah that could be reason too - I rarely fly F4Us
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Maybe F4U's .50s shoot faster? I do blow through more ammo in an F4U faster than a 51. May be cuz I know I have less ammo in a P-51 though...
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C'mon rogent, I expected more of you ;)
AFIK, the guns have the exact same charactoristics. If not, the difference is there for a reason.
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i am pretty sure that the .50s on all the American planes are the same Browning .50s.
NOT
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I've never seen any difference between .50 MGs except in (I think) the defensive gun on bombers and offensive guns on fighters.. Something like 'light' and 'heavy' models. Certainly no difference among the fighters' MGs.
I think that's the different barrel types I'm thinking of..
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I think it is the same,just have to put a few more rounds in than cannons.
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6x.50 package on pony never feels as effective as on jugs or corsairs to me, I assumed it was because they are more stable gun platforms, maybe its just in the mind because of the extra ammo so you fire longer bursts without thinking about it. :rolleyes:
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Are you using a different convergence setting in the P-51 vs. the F4Us/etc?
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325yd point conv on all .50cal rides for me ...
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I'm thinking the different wings of the planes place the 50s at different widths horizontally. One plane might have the guns a little closer to to fusslage than the other and make it seem a bit off to some players? Just a thought.
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I'm thinking the different wings of the planes place the 50s at different widths horizontally. One plane might have the guns a little closer to to fusslage than the other and make it seem a bit off to some players? Just a thought.
That would have the opposite effect, though, as the Pony's guns are mounted closer to the fuselage than the P47 (IIRC) and most certainly the Corsair.
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One possible explanation (other than Rogent is on crack ;)) is that HTC has modelled round dispersion differently per plane. This would take into account how rigidly the guns were mounted to the aircraft, and how the local structure flexed under recoil loads. The whole "stable gun platform" thing.
For you guys who shoot, think of shooting off-hand vs shooting from the bench with sand bags. Big difference.
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Don't understand the quesiton completely...but keep in mind, at least on the F4U's, the guns are closer to "you". The pony's guns are farther out on the wing.
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6x.50 package on pony never feels as effective as on jugs
Could that be the extra two guns? ;)
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At medium-high speed and average distance, just a bit of shake from the controls or from the airframe is prolly enough to disperse the bullets enough to give the impression in the OP.. The variation sounds about the same scale as the difference in 50cal planes' stability. e.g. the 51 is a lot easier to shake than the F6F or 47.
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Two words.....closure rate.
Or firing window....
In a poni you usually have less time to fire and a higher closure rate.
Strip
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Two words.....closure rate.
Or firing window....
In a poni you usually have less time to fire and a higher closure rate.
Strip
That's the same reason why I can get the same number of kills in a single MG151 w/200 rounds 109F as I can get in a 4x Hispano w/ 600 rounds Tempest.
Not that the MG151 is as powerful as 4 Hizookas - It's just saddling up at D200 vs long distant snaphots against crossing targets
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All my 50 cal planes I have set for 425 yards convergence. Hispano's are also the same at 425. Now the german cannons, if nose mounted I have set to 600 and the mg's at 425. I feel the 600 setting on nose cannons raises it up enough that at appox 400 yards, it at same elevation as the MG's (cannon drop I figuring).
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I always shoot worse in the P-51D than I do the P-47. The P-51 is always walking all around the target due to the decreased yaw stability that's present. The P-47 is so stable, its like flying a turret. Of course, I never fly the American rides with combat trim, so that has a lot to do with it. Another is that the P-51 seems to get more stable the faster it goes, so a slow, AH dogfight speeds, the Pony seems incredibly unstable, whereas the Jug, for comparison, keeps the nose where you point it. No quantitative evidence to prove these theories, just feel in game...
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Dogg I'm pretty sure convergence on all aircraft guns in AH applies to their vertical angle, too. Or maybe I misunderstand what you're saying.
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Dogg I'm pretty sure convergence on all aircraft guns in AH applies to their vertical angle, too. Or maybe I misunderstand what you're saying.
I don't think he's talking about the horizontal. I believe he's saying that with his settings, his cannon & MG streams converge @ 400yds, but the spinner cannon is still zeroed @ 600yds so he can still hit with it at range without any hold-over. Makes sense given the ballistics of the cannon. Actually kinda clever. :aok
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The .50's on a mustang or closer to the fuselage, so in that respect I noticed that by staggering the convergence (300,325,350 etc.) on the P-51 it does a lot more damage. And because on the F4U's the guns or farther out because of the size of the prop so the convergence is usually a lot closer and all at the same point. But ya all the American .50s were Browning so I figure they all had the same rate of fire.
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IIRC the 50s on the pony are set at different firing rates?
Thats why you have some rounds left over in 2 guns when the other 4 run out?
So you're NOT firing the same amount of ammo from the pony as you are from the f4u or other 50 cal planes?
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IIRC the 50s on the pony are set at different firing rates?
Thats why you have some rounds left over in 2 guns when the other 4 run out?
ehm, no. They all have same ROF. It's just that two guns have 130 rounds more than the other four.
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When I am down to 2 fifties thats my cue to leave....
Strip
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Rogent read this topic started awhile back.
Read me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,197620.0.html)
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I go along with the idea of not being able to track a target and walk the guns up and down the target like I can in F4U or F6F. I don't have much luck getting kills in a 51, mostly assists.
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The .50s on the P-51D are the same .50s you find on the B, F4U, F6F, P-38, P-47, etc.
ack-ack
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When I am down to 2 fifties thats my cue to leave....
Strip
I took down a 110 with 120 rounds from a TBM once :D
found him NOE, dove down, opened up at D200, and boom! lol
2x .50s will do the job fine if you get shots on target and get close
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There are actually two types of .50s found on U.S. fighters. One is for a normal installation and one is for a synchronized installation. The P-40B uses a synchronized installation which has a lower rate of fire than the normal version. They are still the same in a bullet per bullet comparison.
As for them using different characteristics, that's not how the system works. Lethality, rate of fire, muzzle velocity, armor penetration, etc, is not set on a plane by plane basis. There's a weapon file that is set up with all that information. None of that info is defined in any of the plane files, it just says go use this weapon for this hardpoint. These planes(with the exception of the P-40B) are all set to the same weapon.
Now this is not to say that your perception is wrong. It's just that what you attribute as the cause of your perception may be what's wrong. For example, compare the FM2 versus the P-51B. They have identical guns(I did verify all of these). Yet you note that one is much more effective than the other. What other differences are involved that may account for the disparity? Is it really that you are using different weapons or is it that you are using the same weapons in a different way or against different things?
This was from a thread that said that they thought the .50 cals on an F4U1A are more leathal than a P-51 ...
The only difference between .50s is between ground vehicles and aircraft. Aircraft .50s use a 36" barrel versus a 45" barrel on ground vehicles. That equates to something like an extra 100 fps M.V. for the GV .50s.
That said, the F4U does hit harder on average(not at peak) due to the differences in their ammo loads. If you fire all of your guns together, both planes will have 30 seconds of fire. After about 20 seconds the P-51 will run out of ammo on 4 of its guns and be left with only 2 for the remaining 10 seconds. After about 28 seconds the F4U will run out of ammo for 2 of its guns and be left
with 4 guns for the remaining 2 seconds. Over the course of 30 seconds, the F4U will deliver 25% more firepower.
The FM2 has the same number of rounds in all 4 of its guns so lethality remains constant through the entire ammo load when you fire all guns.
Aircraft .50s have a fire rate of 800 rpm. FM2's duration of fire in minutes would be 430/800 = .5375 minutes or 32.25 seconds.
BTW, another difference between the .50s in the aircraft and GVs is rate of fire. The aircraft .50s have a higher rate of fire.
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I have mostly noticed a difference between guns on bombers and those on fighters. Is there any difference and if there is why.
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100fps (68mph) difference in muzzle speed would probably not make as big a difference as a plane's speed relative to its target.